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Author Topic: Is this fair?  (Read 1123 times)

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cobweb1510

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Is this fair?
« on: June 15, 2023, 08:23:54 PM »

Probably a click-baity topic title!

Ollie is 13, wicket keeper batsman.

This year he has started playing senior cricket. He is playing a mix of 2nds/3rd team games. Keeping well, batting is a work in progress, but there are signs of improvement as he adjusts. He is also playing U15s, and is regularly retiring not out as per the league rules. Once you adjust for # of games he is right up there as one of the league top scorers. He's in the U13 interleague team and done well so far.

At the start of the season we asked Ollie if he wanted to play club U13s or not. We recognised he was playing a lot of cricket, and this standard is a lot lower than all the other options he has available. He said he did- mainly because of 2 reasons.

1) He wanted a chance to excel, since he is constantly battling against the handicap of playing "up" in age. Here he gets to play against his true peers.
2) He has actually played with some of the others in the team since he was 6. He went to primary school with them, and his best friend at secondary school plays in the team. He simply enjoys playing in the team.

Socially the senior teams are difficult for a 13 year old- despite the fact he likes them all and they are brilliant with him. He's a fully equal team member of the 15's, but here he gets to be captain and clear leader. The interleague is mainly a team of strangers, due to rearrangements in the league structure. As a very minor point, the interleague say they look at stats on play cricket as part of their selection process.

So this week he was selected to play. 8 a side pairs. We are in quite a low league as the team is very weak without Ollie.

He faced 15 balls and scored 68. His first over was 6,6,6,6,4,3. One of their bowlers went for 57 for his 2 overs

After the match I got a (friendly) message from our coach. Their coach had said:

"why is Oliver playing in a 13s B division 2 match tonight? He's a 2nd/3rd teamer and battered everyone all over the place. I'm getting lots of grief from parents etc."

Now there is some extra context that mean I'm not able to be entirely objective in their question, but I thought I would take that out, and see what others thought?

Is it fair Ollie plays 13s if he is going to do this every time? He is top of the batting rankings after playing 2 games, with double the runs of the next player who has played 5 matches. We all agree there is minimal challenge (he is unlikely to meet other strong players due to the league). But it is 13s- his friends play, and he wants to play with his friends. Should he be excluded?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2023, 08:25:55 PM by cobweb1510 »
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Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2023, 09:32:29 PM »

Let him play and score as many as he wants. Hes 13, next year when he moves up to 15s and hes the youngest he may really struggle. The kid shouldnt be punished for being talented and have to miss out playing with his mates.

To me it sounds like a perfect opportunity for him to hone his skills in a competitive environment. Can his coach not challenge him, learn to reverse sweep the spinners, can he learn to paddle the seamers, can he use his feet to the spinners and hit in to out through cover. Thats what I try to do with the County lads who play for our school teams.
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ppccopener

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Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2023, 09:40:07 PM »

The transition from youth to adult cricket can be difficult to navigate but a large proportion of the forum have done it and been guided thru for which some of us remain thankful for even now. My old club side was associated to a school and the team full of teachers who handled us all fantastically well as some colts progressed to adult teams quicker than others and therefore not all friends went thru as quickly. This was all explained why and after that we all understood. It didnt stop us wanting to play with our friends but motivated us to improve to reach their level.

Your focus is naturally one young player, my opinion is its a team game and the messages from other parents maybe jokey but put yourself in the other players parents shoes and try to view it from their point of view.And the explain it from their point of view.

I have no doubt you will get contrasting views on this and my view may not be the majority one. It is just based on my own cricket at the same age.

Good luck.
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LEACHY48

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Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2023, 10:25:48 PM »

I am very much of the opinion that in no world should ollie miss out on u13s cricket because he is.too good.

If this was happening in the team I coach, and parents gave me grief, my response would be along the lines of: it would be entirely unfair for a child to miss out on cricket because he excels, whether you agree or not, he has every right to play, and will continue to do so.

Honestly its completely baffling that someone would moan about a child playing at their age level because they are above the standard.

I played mens cricket at 11, I didnt ask the batters to not play because they were better than me and hitting me all over the park, its such a mollycoddled view almost definitely from a parent who's child isn't as good and they don't like the fact their child isnt the best in the side etc.
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elliss

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Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2023, 10:28:11 PM »

We have a similar (ish) problem. My 13yo has been the teams player of the year the last two years. This is tier 1 league cricket, with plenty of county players. He scrapped into a bit of representative cricket, just. Everything cool. This year he looks all at sea. Cant play straight. Cant move his feet. Lost his run up. Really struggling. He needs some confidence. However, the club wont play him in the B team, which is tier 2 (out of 3, so not terrible). "he may kill someone" "hits the ball too hard" etc etc. All of which I agree with 100%. The U14's have no room for him. Our current plan is to play a few games for the U15 B team, who actually play different days to his U13 team. Tougher as older, bigger kids but B teams should have less technical skills to trouble a decent but woefully out of form player. Results TBC.
This problem exists and there is no easy answer. Its not just skills at this age, its also the kids growing at different rates.
I think I'd be a bit of grump if my oppo was scoring 68 off 15 in a lower tier - but it is only u13's
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Jimbo

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Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2023, 11:01:30 PM »

Biggest thing at that age is enjoying cricket. We've got a young lad who absolutely smashes it at u16s, and plays largely 2nd team cricket. Wouldn't dream of suggesting he not play u16s because he's too good. The friendships with kids his own age will be a huge part of him wanting to keep playing cricket when he leaves school and it would be criminal to deprive him of that because he's more talented. Seems much the same with your lad.
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Buzz

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Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2023, 05:46:21 AM »

If you can't play with your mates, literally what is the point of sport?
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Bungle

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Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2023, 07:05:23 AM »

If you can't play with your mates, literally what is the point of sport?

Wouldn't this be an argument for the other team's players as well though? The other team also might have a few good friends in there and they definitely wouldn't be having fun getting smacked around the park. Given the fact he faced 15 balls, does this mean that the other batter in the pair only faced 3 balls?

Is this a one off or would you expect him to dominate and be scoring a lot of runs every game he plays? If it's a regular thing, it's probably not the best idea for him to play at this level (in my view).

Maybe I'm just gloomy but I don't think the other team would have enjoyed the game that much.
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Buzz

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Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2023, 09:07:32 AM »

U13 games are usually out you are out cricket not pairs and I assume that is the case here.
With league games usually there is a retire at 50 rule so one player can't dominate.

The coach will put the team into the league best suited to the team and availability.

If you have one kids who is brilliant and 10 kids who are tier 2 level you play t2. You don't play t1 and hope your good player comes off.

To me it sounds like the player is getting a good balance of challenging cricket crossed with fun cricket with his mates.

As a parent I would be happy with the situation.

The oppo coach can't dictate who you pick, that is nuts!

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cobweb1510

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Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2023, 05:05:08 PM »

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

I know our coach isn't bothered by it. Not sure about their coach- he said he was getting grief off their parents. There was a bit of moaning at the game, but nothing more than normal.

Some interesting things to answer:
U13 games are usually out you are out cricket not pairs and I assume that is the case here.

This was pairs. It's a small club, and we can't field an 11 a side team at junior level. This is also the reason the league standard is quite low.

Wouldn't this be an argument for the other team's players as well though? The other team also might have a few good friends in there and they definitely wouldn't be having fun getting smacked around the park. Given the fact he faced 15 balls, does this mean that the other batter in the pair only faced 3 balls?
Is this a one off or would you expect him to dominate and be scoring a lot of runs every game he plays? If it's a regular thing, it's probably not the best idea for him to play at this level (in my view).
Maybe I'm just gloomy but I don't think the other team would have enjoyed the game that much.

Couple of things here- but some of the points you raise are fair, and echo some of my thoughts.

Ollie faced 15. They bat for 4 overs, so other lad faced 9. Ollie was "close" to hogging the strike, but I don't think it was excessive. Actually the other lad seemed quite chuffed to be batting with Ollie and saw his role as getting him on strike. Having said that- I don't think that's a healthy mindset for him. He has as much right to play his shots, his way, as Ollie. If the end result is Ollie faces 9 balls and we lose the game- I don't consider that an issue. All players get to play their game.

Is it a one off? Not sure- probably not. This was by far his best performance in an U13 pairs game. He had a 43 last season which was his previous best. He has played 1 other U13 this season and scored 37. This innings was brutal though- balls bouncing off roofs as he hit it out of the ground repeatedly. He seems to be improving, which means this might be more likely, not less. That said Ollie will not get to play very often- partly because due to a lack of numbers we have no U11 team, so U13s combines both player pools and they are rotating. Ollie also has a few matches missed through clashes. Despite this his 2 appearances have put him to the top of the league batting figures with almost double the 2nd place batter (who has played 5 matches).

Did the other team enjoy it? This is a fair question. Well I don't think the lad that went for 57 off his 2 overs did! The 6 bowlers that bowled to pairs 1-3 did. The lad that managed to bowl to the other batter was probably ok. This is the nub of the question really- do we need to consider the bowlers feelings? From a sport perspective- maybe no. But it's U13- maybe yes. If he'd played U15s, he would have retired after 1 over! Funnily enough the rules protecting the participation of young players worked against the bowlers this time and allowed Ollie to play as he did. I can see a decision to force him to retire at a score of X, and make him play as a runner could be a compromise.

I don't think there's a right answer, but it was something I thought was worth considering and discussing since many people on here either coach or parent junior cricketers.
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procricket

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Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2023, 05:15:11 PM »

I think your overthinking just let the lad play is my response.

I mean do you pull him out when he struggles in adult cricket ?

So why would you pull him at age appropriate level.

Players have to learn to deal with success as well as failure
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cobweb1510

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Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2023, 09:59:27 PM »

I think your overthinking just let the lad play is my response.

I mean do you pull him out when he struggles in adult cricket ?

So why would you pull him at age appropriate level.

Players have to learn to deal with success as well as failure

Very possibly- I'm not really that worried about it. Thought it was an interesting discussion point more than anything. I was curious to see how my thoughts (biased as a parent) measured up against the general thoughts. I am also interested when the rules designed to support juniors work against them. As a U15 he has to retire after a single over on 33*, here the rules to protect his opportunity to bat means the bowler gets smacked all around the park. It's something possibly unique to cricket- the 1 on 1 duel within the team sport setting.

Personally I'm just hoping he carries it into his 2XI game tomorrow  :D
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