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General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: Biggie Smalls on September 12, 2017, 10:32:57 AM

Title: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 12, 2017, 10:32:57 AM
Too early ?
Nah , never too early !
Thought id kick things off by listing the two XIs that Warney has picked for the first test in Brissy .

England

Stoneman
Cook
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Crane
Anderson

Australia

Renshaw
Warner
Khawaja
Smith
Handscomb
Maxwell
Wade
Starc
Cummins
Lyon
Hazlewood


*Warney said there's a place on the plane for Malan but not Westley .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Buzz on September 12, 2017, 10:41:53 AM
Warnie, like Vaughan is just a click bait rentaquote.

Root is very very unlikely to bat a three, so any team selections with that happening are a waste of space. The Lions team will be in Aus, so Hameed, Crane and other popular selections will be there actually playing rather than carrying drinks.

Squad will be
Batters
Cook, Stoneman, Hales, Root, Malan, then Westley or Ballance, whomever gets the most runs.

All rounders
Stokes, Woakes and Moeen

Keepers
Bairstow, Foakes

Bowlers
Anderson, Broad, TRJ, Jake Ball, Wood. Dawson may go too...! (18 is too many I know, but 17 will be the number.)

No futher discussions required...! ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 12, 2017, 10:54:07 AM
Hameed would be one of my openers , so its a good thing that eng can take a squad , then change their minds /opt for plan b etc , with the lions being in oz at the same time .
I thought it was interesting that Warney found room in the starting side for Crane .
Personally , Root is better at 4 than 3 . However , he is also better a 3 than most other options , and i think it's easier for England to find a capable 4 than a 3 for oz conditions . Maybe just for the ashes Root should 'take one for the team' and elevate himself .
I'm not in the know enough re english domestic cricket to know whether Robson , Ballance , Jennings , Bell-Drummond,  Compton etc will all make the lions squad .... or who else is on the horizon to look out for . I keep thinking Hales and Roy need to be in the mix ( I'd have Hales at 5 , Roy in the test squad ... possibly opening with Cook if Hameed doesnt come good) .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Harry L on September 12, 2017, 10:54:43 AM
I agree with the warne style of thinking in that we don't need the extra batsmen, especially when woakes looks like he'd contribute more with the bat than someone like malan anyway. Hoping hameed finishes the season well and sneaks into the starting XI as he is one of the best technically, and has a strong mentality. If he gets a few runs I'd have him opening and stoneman three.

Cook
Hameed
Stoneman
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

Then probably wood,hales,foakes,trj and malan.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 12, 2017, 10:56:00 AM
Warnie, like Vaughan is just a click bait rentaquote.

Root is very very unlikely to bat a three, so any team selections with that happening are a waste of space. The Lions team will be in Aus, so Hameed, Crane and other popular selections will be there actually playing rather than carrying drinks.

Squad will be
Batters
Cook, Stoneman, Hales, Root, Malan, then Westley or Ballance, whomever gets the most runs.

All rounders
Stokes, Woakes and Moeen

Keepers
Bairstow, Foakes

Bowlers
Anderson, Broad, TRJ, Jake Ball, Wood. Dawson may go too...! (18 is too many I know, but 17 will be the number.)

No futher discussions required...! ;)


I think Westley and Dawson are a waste of the cost of airline tickets ! Make them sit at home and pay for a Sky Sports subscription! 
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 12, 2017, 11:05:25 AM
Joe root should be told where he is batting, 3.

It's not a village green game where everyone wants to bat 5.

Just my opinion  :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 12, 2017, 11:11:06 AM
For the record :
Cook
Hameed
Stoneman
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Trj  ( swap for Jimmy at Adelaide and any green pitch encountered )
Broad

Eng best chances are at adelaide ( they may get more out of the pink ball than oz) , sydney,  Melbourne.

Engs main advantages are : they potentially will bat bat deeper in the order ; they have an extra legit bowling option .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Buzz on September 12, 2017, 11:11:38 AM

I think Westley and Dawson are a waste of the cost of airline tickets ! Make them sit at home and pay for a Sky Sports subscription!
I agree, Ballance should captain the Lions or something. This is a case of what will happen rather than what I would do.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mattdawson on September 12, 2017, 11:15:18 AM
Personally believe there's no need for the extra bowler.

Nasser made a great point the other day in debate, along the lines of there's 30 overs in a session 6 bowlers means at least 1 bowler a session will be stood in the field doing not a lot or bowling a couple overs, a gap that Root can do surely?

Crane, leach, Hameed, Jennings and Ballance all to be in the lions playing matches not carrying drinks.

I'm intrested to see who they look to as 2nd keeper? Part thinks Butler obvious option, but whats the point if he wont play, he mentioned about going to the BPL and presumably BBL. being from Lancs I'd love to see lions take Davies (scored most keeper runs i think? and 2nd in dismissals as well)     
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 12, 2017, 11:16:11 AM
Btw , i havent heard if eng will get to pkay a tour/practice game with a pink kooks ? Would suck if they dont get that opportunity.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 12, 2017, 11:19:10 AM
Personally believe there's no need for the extra bowler.

Nasser made a great point the other day in debate, along the lines of there's 30 overs in a session 6 bowlers means at least 1 bowler a session will be stood in the field doing not a lot or bowling a couple overs, a gap that Root can do surely?

Crane, leach, Hameed, Jennings and Ballance all to be in the lions playing matches not carrying drinks.

I'm intrested to see who they look to as 2nd keeper? Part thinks Butler obvious option, but whats the point if he wont play, he mentioned about going to the BPL and presumably BBL. being from Lancs I'd love to see lions take Davies (scored most keeper runs i think? and 2nd in dismissals as well)     

Id love to see at least one side with a pure keeper ( don't get me wrong , i think bairstow is the bees knees ). . That's why part of me hopes oz would go waaay left field and pick Alex Carey . He is a walking keeping masterclass .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 12, 2017, 11:19:44 AM
Cook
hammeed
Stoneman
root
malan
stokes
bairstow
ali
woakes
Roland jones
anderson

Squad:

westley
broad
foakes
buttler
wood
crane

squad of 17

yes ive dropped broad but i think TRJ has bowled much more attackingly and looks in much better form at the moment he also hasnt gone at a stupid high run rate either and stregthens the batting which is our weakness too
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Harry L on September 12, 2017, 11:20:56 AM
Personally believe there's no need for the extra bowler.

Nasser made a great point the other day in debate, along the lines of there's 30 overs in a session 6 bowlers means at least 1 bowler a session will be stood in the field doing not a lot or bowling a couple overs, a gap that Root can do surely?

Crane, leach, Hameed, Jennings and Ballance all to be in the lions playing matches not carrying drinks.

I'm intrested to see who they look to as 2nd keeper? Part thinks Butler obvious option, but whats the point if he wont play, he mentioned about going to the BPL and presumably BBL. being from Lancs I'd love to see lions take Davies (scored most keeper runs i think? and 2nd in dismissals as well)     

But equally what's the point in taking another batsmen that isn't scoring any runs? We're basically carrying a player then, plus we'll be playing on some of the flattest tracks in the world in Australia so I think 6 bowlers will come in handy, even if someone like a rashid doesn't bowl many first innings overs. Let's not forget broad and jimmy don't have the greatest records in Aus either, and the heat, I doubt we'll be seeing many spells longer than 6 or 7 overs from the seamers.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 12, 2017, 11:22:31 AM
Cook
hammeed
Stoneman
root
malan
stokes
bairstow
ali
woakes
Roland jones
anderson

Squad:

westley
broad
foakes
buttler
wood
crane

squad of 17

yes ive dropped broad but i think TRJ has bowled much more attackingly and looks in much better form at the moment he also hasnt gone at a stupid high run rate either and stregthens the batting which is our weakness too



Not the side I'd have , but not far off ... i like it !
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 12, 2017, 11:25:51 AM
But equally what's the point in taking another batsmen that isn't scoring any runs? We're basically carrying a player then, plus we'll be playing on some of the flattest tracks in the world in Australia so I think 6 bowlers will come in handy, even if someone like a rashid doesn't bowl many first innings overs. Let's not forget broad and jimmy don't have the greatest records in Aus either, and the heat, I doubt we'll be seeing many spells longer than 6 or 7 overs from the seamers.



Fair points ( particularly re broad and anderson) , but .... what about Mo ! I think he's improved massively and will do a decent job in oz . So 5 legit bowlers plus Root and other part timers should be enough ?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 12, 2017, 11:27:16 AM
Wouldn't be surprised for the first test England  play 5 seamers.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Harry L on September 12, 2017, 11:29:45 AM


Fair points ( particularly re broad and anderson) , but .... what about Mo ! I think he's improved massively and will do a decent job in oz . So 5 legit bowlers plus Root and other part timers should be enough ?

Maybe it's overkill but surely it's better to have too much bowling rather than too little? The only batsmen I'd consider in my team above to replace Rashid would probably be hales as he is used to facing 90mph+ regularly in the one day formats.

Stoneman in the runs again this morning.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mattdawson on September 12, 2017, 11:53:31 AM
That's my point on the spells, 7 overs per bowler is still only 4 bowlers per session, 6 in a side can lead to too much changing and not giving any combinations a real chance.

I think the biggest headache in the selection will come if Wood is fit and bowling quick does he get in on his pace alone?

I thought about hales but you end up with a middle order that's powerful and appears to be all want to be scoring at nearly a run a ball. There will be a test were england will be <50-3 at some point imo  and i dont fancy hales walking out then. flip that and we could easily be 200-3 and i wouldnt want ballance strolling out to push the scoring on.

I think malan can be a very good no5, batted really nice at 3 in t20 quick and free flowing, but also showed he can digin at headingley.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on September 12, 2017, 12:07:51 PM
6 bowlers is completely unnecessary, many test teams manage fine with 4 plus maybe a part-time spinner! 6 will mean one bloke on the boundary doing nothing, or our best bowlers bowling less overs.

Don't think Hales will go, Hameed will be doing his time in the Lions, can definitely see us taking a spare opener. Seamers/allrounders pick themselves, Foakes is the obvious reserve, so:
Batters
Cook, Stoneman, Root, Malan, then a spare opener - probably Robson/Lyth, lastly either Westley or a new pick - maybe Northeast/Roy? Good time for a middle order player or opener to get big runs at the end of the CC season. Or a good time to lose a few pounds if your name's Samit Patel!

All rounders
Stokes, Woakes, Moeen

Keepers
Bairstow, Foakes

Bowlers
Anderson, Broad, TRJ, Jake Ball, Wood and a spinner, depends whether they think Crane is ready or plump for Leach/Rayner. Given they'll likely just be carrying the drinks, I'd send Crane with the Lions and pick Rayner as the safest backup option.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on September 12, 2017, 12:18:53 PM
Bayliss said it's unlikely they'll be anyone in the squad who hasn't been included over the past 12-18 months, I'd say this means the only questions are (as always) over 3 of the top 5 between Stoneman, Westley, Malan, Ballance, Hales, Jennings and Hameed. I'd think it would also rule out any wild card pick of taking Jason Roy, Northeast, Leach, Rayner etc. or going back to Lyth, Robson Not sure what it means for the backup keeper though, sounds like they might just take Buttler instead of Foakes but who knows.

Bowlers pick themselves (presuming they take Crane as 2nd spinner) at least as far as the squad goes, starting XI and there could still be some debate.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 12, 2017, 12:31:49 PM
Bayliss said it's unlikely they'll be anyone in the squad who hasn't been included over the past 12-18 months, I'd say this means the only questions are (as always) over 3 of the top 5 between Stoneman, Westley, Malan, Ballance, Hales, Jennings and Hameed. I'd think it would also rule out any wild card pick of taking Jason Roy, Northeast, Leach, Rayner etc. or going back to Lyth, Robson Not sure what it means for the backup keeper though, sounds like they might just take Buttler instead of Foakes but who knows.

Bowlers pick themselves (presuming they take Crane as 2nd spinner) at least as far as the squad goes, starting XI and there could still be some debate.

Exactly...most of the squad picks itself.lyth and robson have not done enough for a recall and Jennings is still in the same bad Trot-they surely won't be in
Stoneman looks good so far out of the new 3 batters.
Malan the next best if we go with the extra batter

I'd also like to see hameed with the lions...as was discussed a while back on here could he return as a number 3 or 4 in future?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: hanif on September 12, 2017, 12:55:53 PM
1. Cook
2. Hameed
3. Root
4. Hales
5. Stokes
6. Bairstow (Batter only, pretty awesome fielder without the gloves).
7. Butler (WK)
8. Ali
9. Broad
10. Wood (If fit) or a fit Plunkett would be a handful in oz.
11. Anderson
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on September 12, 2017, 01:20:05 PM
1. Cook
2. Hameed
3. Root
4. Hales
5. Stokes
6. Bairstow (Batter only, pretty awesome fielder without the gloves).
7. Butler (WK)
8. Ali
9. Broad
10. Wood (If fit) or a fit Plunkett would be a handful in oz.
11. Anderson

I don't understand why people think Buttler should be included? He hardly plays any red ball cricket at all.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 12, 2017, 01:42:30 PM
I don't understand why people think Buttler should be included? He hardly plays any red ball cricket at all.

Agreed. Realistically he will probably go as a spare as he's played in aua before but he 1 hasnt played red ball for ages amd 2 if he were to of have the chance. He would have had it ages ago when malan and westley didnt really work. But no.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: FattusCattus on September 12, 2017, 01:53:26 PM
Agreed - it seems nonsensical to me when you have a ready-made reserve in Foakes, who plays a lot of 4-day stuff, and seems to be doing pretty well. Plus a great opportunity to involve him in the squad and get used to the Test and touring scene.

Still, it's all subjective, isn't it. I also don't know why people suddenly think Hales is a shoe-in as a test no.4 or wood as a test-match bowler.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on September 12, 2017, 02:10:09 PM
Alex Carey .

Who?  :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on September 12, 2017, 02:20:52 PM
I should point out that I wouldn't be surprised if Buttler gets taken as the reserve keeper but I think Foakes is the better option.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 12, 2017, 03:14:35 PM
Who?  :D


Jim's brother .


Also the south oz keeper. Great , great hands.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 12, 2017, 03:30:04 PM
I don't understand why people think Buttler should be included? He hardly plays any red ball cricket at all.

He came in and did a good job in India after we all said the same thing
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on September 12, 2017, 03:30:32 PM
1. Cook
2. Hameed
3. Root
4. Hales
5. Stokes
6. Bairstow (Batter only, pretty awesome fielder without the gloves).
7. Butler (WK)
8. Ali
9. Broad
10. Wood (If fit) or a fit Plunkett would be a handful in oz.
11. Anderson

Stokes will NOT bat at 5 - he is always batting at 6!!! And Buttler is unlikely to be in the XI.

I would like to see:

Cook
Stoneman
Hameed
Root
Malan/Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
TRJ/Wokes
Broad
Anderson

Westley has not really taken his chance against Windies! He did some hard graft against SA but hasn't impressed since.
Would prefer to see Hameed at 5 initially but without an on-form no3 bat, choices are limited! Plus Root can keep his fave 4 position and Bairstow and Ali better at 7 and 8!
Like one or two others, I think Broad hasn't been on top form lately but he is always dangerous and seems to have a few great spells saved for the Aussies  ;) So see how he gets on. Hard to leave Anderson out considering his form this Summer.
Not sure there are any wickets which require loads of spin options! Surely Ali, Root and Malan are enough options?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Buzz on September 12, 2017, 03:50:52 PM
Agreed - it seems nonsensical to me when you have a ready-made reserve in Foakes, who plays a lot of 4-day stuff, and seems to be doing pretty well. Plus a great opportunity to involve him in the squad and get used to the Test and touring scene.

Still, it's all subjective, isn't it. I also don't know why people suddenly think Hales is a shoe-in as a test no.4 or wood as a test-match bowler.
Hales is a shoe in because he is an experienced international, knows his game and has score loads if runs recently in all forma of cricket.
Not sure what else he can do!

Stoneman's ton today was also helpful for him.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on September 12, 2017, 04:27:30 PM
Totally agree about Hales - he has Test experience batting at 2, but batting at 5 I reckon he would be more comfortable and even lethal and destructive if he's on form.
As I said somewhere else, if Stoneman and Hameed (or other number 3) perform, then the top 4 are taken care of. Then Hales, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali and Woakes or TRJ to follow from 5-9 batting......that would be quite scary for a lot of teams!!
But Malan did look quite good too - so my selection has either option at 5, but can't see either at 4 really! Plus Root is unlikely to give up 4!!
 
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: hanif on September 12, 2017, 04:30:20 PM
I was just stating the 11 players I would choose to take to OZ. As for stokes never batting at 5 and only batting at 6 it is just a number and he has proven he can perform under pressure when the team needs him the most.

Buttler may not have played a lot of red ball cricket but he can win games and take matches away from the opposition. Seeing some one a destructive as Buttler at 7 is likely to unsettle any team. If Woakes can get fit he would be a great addition to the side, but he looked far from his best with the ball against the Windies. He did look in decent touch with the bat.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: FattusCattus on September 12, 2017, 04:36:32 PM
Why didn't Hales play against the Windies then?  would seem to have been a great opportunity to try him out, rather than chucking him in against the Aussies.

(Disclaimer - I don't have a problem with him in the side, nothing would give me greater pleasure than watching him go mental at number 5 and batter everyone out of the park)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on September 12, 2017, 04:44:08 PM
I'd love Buttler in the side, but with that in mind he's off for a Lions tour for me, to get some more red ball gametime. Imagine having to bowl at him and Livingstone mind!

Plunkett is a good shout, I'd quite possibly take him ahead of Ball.

The issue with Hales - he's a proven international player, no problems there, but he got stuck under the pressure of tests last time. Which doesn't bode well for an away Ashes...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 12, 2017, 06:13:57 PM
Why didn't Hales play against the Windies then?  would seem to have been a great opportunity to try him out, rather than chucking him in against the Aussies.


Because Westley and Malan did?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 12, 2017, 06:18:26 PM
I quite liked Shane Warne's squad, if anyone saw it? I doubt Mason Crane's really ready, though.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: LateBloomer on September 12, 2017, 06:31:32 PM
Let me throw a name into Englands middle order quandry

A man with a proven test record and experience of winning Ashes series home and away

Ian Bell. Granted not had the greatest of seasons domestically but if he was available I'd pick him ahead of Westley, Malan and Hales in a heartbeat.

I would also go with Foakes ahead of Buttler. Been class all season with gloves and bat
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 12, 2017, 06:45:33 PM
Let me throw a name into Englands middle order quandry

A man with a proven test record and experience of winning Ashes series home and away

Ian Bell. Granted not had the greatest of seasons domestically but if he was available I'd pick him ahead of Westley, Malan and Hales in a heartbeat.

I would also go with Foakes ahead of Buttler. Been class all season with gloves and bat

Superb!  :) this will get the forum talking and it's healthy to have different views.

Lots of debate on here on different threads and Ian bell. One of my favourite players and a class act.

His time has gone thou I think. Shame he seemed to lose motivation after being dropped by England.

In my book thou.....a wonderful player.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on September 12, 2017, 08:44:56 PM
There are probably twelve certainties already:

Cook, Stoneman, Root, Malan
Bairstow
Stokes, Ali, Woakes
Anderson, Broad, Roland-Jones, Wood

So, they need one more batsman for the Test XI, a reserve, a spare keeper, and then whatever spare spinners and seamers they want to take.

I think the keeper will be Foakes, and Bayliss has more or less said Hales will be one of the batsmen.  If there is a second spinner, it'll be Crane, because Rashid will not be a positive influence carrying drinks for three months, and another seamer would be a toss up between Ball and Overton (tall, horses for courses pick).

The last batting slot is interesting.  Westley might have dragged it out of the fire, but they will also talk about Hameed, Vince and Ballance. 
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on September 12, 2017, 08:46:14 PM
Superb!  :) this will get the forum talking and it's healthy to have different views.

Lots of debate on here on different threads and Ian bell. One of my favourite players and a class act.

His time has gone thou I think. Shame he seemed to lose motivation after being dropped by England.

In my book thou.....a wonderful player.

If Bell had Collingwood's sense of fight, this wopuldn't be the worst bet.  But I think he might find himself mentally disintegrated pretty quickly...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Harry L on September 12, 2017, 08:56:27 PM
There are probably twelve certainties already:

Cook, Stoneman, Root, Malan
Bairstow
Stokes, Ali, Woakes
Anderson, Broad, Roland-Jones, Wood

So, they need one more batsman for the Test XI, a reserve, a spare keeper, and then whatever spare spinners and seamers they want to take.

I think the keeper will be Foakes, and Bayliss has more or less said Hales will be one of the batsmen.  If there is a second spinner, it'll be Crane, because Rashid will not be a positive influence carrying drinks for three months, and another seamer would be a toss up between Ball and Overton (tall, horses for courses pick).

The last batting slot is interesting.  Westley might have dragged it out of the fire, but they will also talk about Hameed, Vince and Ballance.

Mark wood is never a guarantee as he can't stay fit, he hasn't even taken many wickets in div 2.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 12, 2017, 09:00:26 PM
If Bell had Collingwood's sense of fight, this wopuldn't be the worst bet.  But I think he might find himself mentally disintegrated pretty quickly...

Bell was never that sort of player, it was all Too easy at his best. He got some 'harder' runs towards the end of his career but agree didn't show it thru most of it. In comparison with westley and Malan...well there just Isn't one

Good squad thou manor , you wrong about Wood thou, he is not fit and has ankle problems. I. Afraid he will not be the player we all want him to be.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 12, 2017, 09:05:00 PM
Bayliss said there won't be new names. Doesn't this suggest Foakes won't be going?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: smilley792 on September 12, 2017, 09:06:31 PM
Bayliss said there won't be names. Doesn't this suggest Foakes won't be going?

Presumtion you meant "no new names" (as this is what bayliss said).

Which to me means buttler is the spare keeper.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: jamielsn15 on September 12, 2017, 09:07:26 PM
If Bell had Collingwood's sense of fight, this wopuldn't be the worst bet.  But I think he might find himself mentally disintegrated pretty quickly...

The management didn't have a clue how to manage and motivate him, in my opinion. Averages 50+ at five, 60 at six yet insisted on taking the vice captaincy off him, which was perfect for him and kept on pressuring him to bat at 3. Stick to player's strengths, they'd have got an extra two years out of him and he'd have been ready for an Ashes swansong.

He was never the KP, Ponting type to dominate teams and be larger than life. But he was a senior pro that, had he been man managed effectively, could be part of a line up that would have allowed Root to bat 3 or 4. Fit numbers two and four around those guys and our Ashes line up would have looked far stronger.

I think after losing the vice captaincy his head went and its clear now he lacks the motivation and desire. I absolutely agree that he couldn't have done any worse than Compton, Westley, Malan, etc over the last two years or so. But he's done now...

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Harry L on September 12, 2017, 09:09:50 PM
Presumtion you meant "no new names" (as this is what bayliss said).

Which to me means buttler is the spare keeper.

Hope not, would be a bit of farce taking someone that has played about 5 first class games in the last couple of years, 3 of which have been this year and he's averaging 17. Foakes is the standout candidate and I believe he has trained with the test side already this year? But then again will he play any cricket if selected in the main squad?

Probably not
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 12, 2017, 09:16:35 PM
Swann also bigged Hales up on radio saying something along the lines of 'hes not the smartesr bloke but he realised he was trying to be a test cricketer when he doesnt have the technique for it, and now hes scoring runs for fun'
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: smilley792 on September 12, 2017, 09:17:08 PM
Hope not, would be a bit of farce taking someone that has played about 5 first class games in the last couple of years, 3 of which have been this year and he's averaging 17. Foakes is the standout candidate and I believe he has trained with the test side already this year? But then again will he play any cricket if selected in the main squad?

Probably not

He played 3 tests in India last winter and averaged around 40.

That's much better than jennings, Westley malan etc have been doing recently.

Last summer bayliss wanted him as a batsmen, selectors said no, so he took him to India as spare keeper and played him as a batsmen.
Reckon that will be bayliss plan this year, spare keeper and more likely batsman if the newbs do as bad as they have done this summer.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 12, 2017, 09:19:35 PM
I can't actually believe anyone on this forum has butler as the second keeper, he simply does not play enough long form cricket, and he is about to sign for another 2020 tournament.

2 years ago yes we could of had bairstow as a batter o lay and butler keeping-but it didn't go that way. Bairstow is improving and Jos is a one day King.
Bayliss does not pick the team on his own, I'd be staggered if butler is chosen not playing the right form of the game. Ben Foakes looks favourite to me
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Turn Of Pace on September 12, 2017, 09:22:50 PM
A friend of mine was chatting with Colin Graves at Lords the other day. During the conversation Graves indicated that Ballance will be in the squad for the ashes as they think his back foot game will be suited to quick Aussie decks.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: smilley792 on September 12, 2017, 09:27:05 PM
I can't actually believe anyone on this forum has butler as the second keeper, he simply does not play enough long form cricket, and he is about to sign for another 2020 tournament.

2 years ago yes we could of had bairstow as a batter o lay and butler keeping-but it didn't go that way. Bairstow is improving and Jos is a one day King.
Bayliss does not pick the team on his own, I'd be staggered if butler is chosen not playing the right form of the game. Ben Foakes looks favourite to me


Its not about what people think, it's about what bayliss has said.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41213905 (http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41213905)

No new faces.
Players that have played in the last 12 to 18months.

Foakes hasn't played a test yet, never mind in that period, so how can he be favourite?

He may well be the right call, but..........
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: jamielsn15 on September 12, 2017, 09:30:01 PM
A friend of mine was chatting with Colin Graves at Lords the other day. During the conversation Graves indicated that Ballance will be in the squad for the ashes as they think his back foot game will be suited to quick Aussie decks.

...and he'll have aussie quicks queuing up to bowl full and straight at the speed of light to him. Please, anyone but Ballance...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: jamielsn15 on September 12, 2017, 09:32:29 PM
I actually think they'll  start with cook, stoneman, jennings, root, malan, stokes, bairstow, ali.

Hardly strauss, cook  trott, kp, bell, collingwood, prior is it?!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 12, 2017, 09:40:56 PM
Presumtion you meant "no new names" (as this is what bayliss said).

Which to me means buttler is the spare keeper.

Yes, I did.  Sorry!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Turn Of Pace on September 12, 2017, 09:57:49 PM
...and he'll have aussie quicks queuing up to bowl full and straight at the speed of light to him. Please, anyone but Ballance...

My mate told me that he spent about 20 minutes trying to tell Graves that Ballance is as much of a nailed on LBW candidate as Westley and that neither of them should go on the plane. Apparently Graves couldn't be dissuaded from Ballance though.


Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 12, 2017, 10:01:44 PM
Saw Graham Thorpe deep in conversation with Andrew Gale today. Would have loved to have been listening in.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 13, 2017, 04:23:34 AM
I quite liked Shane Warne's squad, if anyone saw it? I doubt Mason Crane's really ready, though.



First post of this thread .  :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 13, 2017, 06:28:52 AM
If Adelaide ends up being a green pitch to preserve the pink ball, I would like to see Lyon sit out that test . If Maxwell plays at 6 he can bowl a few overs of offies and James Pattinson can come into the side , so oz can have a crack using all of the 'big four'. It would be exciting to see Starc , Hazlewood,  Cummins,  Pattinson all in the same attack .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 13, 2017, 06:40:58 AM


First post of this thread .  :D

Sorry, I arrived late!

Buzz's second post is probably moe realistic, even with his selection of Foakes.

17:

Cook, Stoneman, Ballance (or Westley), Root, Malan, Hales.

Bairstow, Buttler.

Stokes, Ali, Woakes.

Anderson, Broad, Roland-Jones, Wood, Dawson, Ball.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on September 13, 2017, 07:30:45 AM
If Adelaide ends up being a green pitch to preserve the pink ball, I would like to see Lyon sit out that test . If Maxwell plays at 6 he can bowl a few overs of offies and James Pattinson can come into the side , so oz can have a crack using all of the 'big four'. It would be exciting to see Starc , Hazlewood,  Cummins,  Pattinson all in the same attack .

Based on past records surely one of them is bound to end up crocked before then ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 13, 2017, 10:32:06 AM
Based on past records surely one of them is bound to end up crocked before then ;)


Yeah , you're right about that..... even a.t.m only Cummins , of the four , is fit.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on September 13, 2017, 10:46:49 AM
Foakes giving the selectors a timely reminder that he can bat.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 13, 2017, 10:49:10 AM
when does sanga qualify?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 13, 2017, 11:10:36 AM
when does sanga qualify?

Can't think in recent years a more fantastic overseas player for Surrey or anyone

Fantastic player
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kieron_BT on September 13, 2017, 01:34:21 PM

I think Westley and Dawson are a waste of the cost of airline tickets ! Make them sit at home and pay for a Sky Sports subscription!

Won't they then need to buy a BT Sports subscription?!  :D :(
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 14, 2017, 12:38:29 AM
Won't they then need to buy a BT Sports subscription?!  :D :(


Oh whoops , aussie making an english pay tv presumption. If sky dont show it isn't their commitment to cricket a bit lacking ?
"Sky Sports 2/Cricket .... the home of cricket. Unless its overseas , and the biggest test rivalry on the planet ,and we didn't bother getting the rights" .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Calzehbhoy on September 14, 2017, 08:46:05 AM

Oh whoops , aussie making an english pay tv presumption. If sky dont show it isn't their commitment to cricket a bit lacking ?
"Sky Sports 2/Cricket .... the home of cricket. Unless its overseas , and the biggest test rivalry on the planet ,and we didn't bother getting the rights" .

BT went behind Sky's back and did a deal direct with Cricket Australia to have the exclusive rights to all of Australia's home tests & BBL. This deal then effects Sky's deal with the ECB to show all England tests as BT Sport have the exclusive rights with the host broadcaster.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: jamielsn15 on September 14, 2017, 08:56:53 AM
^ cue the playing of the world's smallest violin for Sky Sports...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 14, 2017, 10:31:18 AM
BT went behind Sky's back and did a deal direct with Cricket Australia to have the exclusive rights to all of Australia's home tests & BBL. This deal then effects Sky's deal with the ECB to show all England tests as BT Sport have the exclusive rights with the host broadcaster.

Wow , that's some seriously Machiavellien manoeuvring by bt there !
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 14, 2017, 12:07:29 PM
BT went behind Sky's back and did a deal direct with Cricket Australia to have the exclusive rights to all of Australia's home tests & BBL. This deal then effects Sky's deal with the ECB to show all England tests as BT Sport have the exclusive rights with the host broadcaster.

Im not sure it really counts as "going behind Sky's backs" there are usually invitation to tender notices sent out for things like this, i suspect BT offered more money than Sky did presumably off the back of trying to disrupt the next domestic cricket rights bidding too. Not sure how long BT's deal is for but will be interesting to see if they try to retain these rights if they havent cracked the domestic market.

Does make me wonder how Sky think they can fill an entire cricket channel throughout the winter, i know they have a raft of their own produced content with the masterclasses and what not but can see the cricket channel being very repetitive over the next few months!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 14, 2017, 12:26:34 PM
i was under the impression both bt ans sky will be covering the ashes as the both have deals?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: RhysH on September 14, 2017, 12:36:04 PM
i was under the impression both bt ans sky will be covering the ashes as the both have deals?
If they do I cant see many people choosing BT over sky if they have both packages!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on September 14, 2017, 12:42:24 PM
sky have highlights like in 05 I think but BT have live rights

may be wrong though
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Butterfingerz on September 14, 2017, 12:44:39 PM
From memory the BT deal is for 4 years (about £60m) and includes exclusive live access to the 2017/18 Ashes, Big Bash plus the women's Ashes and T20 comp. It was an open tender and BT bid more than Sky who had just committed a ridiculous amount for the football.

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 14, 2017, 01:02:56 PM
Ah fair enough! Glad I have both BT and sky!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 22, 2017, 10:55:19 AM
Just read that australias domestic season will include 1st round shield games with a pink ball , and all shield games after xmas (2nd half of season) will be using a dukes .
Would it have been a good idea for the last few county championship rounds to have been played with a kookaburra ? Has this been done before ?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 22, 2017, 12:11:52 PM
england squad to be announced before the next odi at the oval
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 22, 2017, 02:15:19 PM
Just read that australias domestic season will include 1st round shield games with a pink ball , and all shield games after xmas (2nd half of season) will be using a dukes .
Would it have been a good idea for the last few county championship rounds to have been played with a kookaburra ? Has this been done before ?

No but its a good idea, play and practice with everything ever will use.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 22, 2017, 02:29:21 PM
A friend of mine was chatting with Colin Graves at Lords the other day. During the conversation Graves indicated that Ballance will be in the squad for the ashes as they think his back foot game will be suited to quick Aussie decks.

He should be he did far better against Morkel and Co than his Replacements against the Windes but he needs to bat at five also because he bats ugly doesn't help his case.
 Bulk of the bowling will be done by seamers but can't see England with an attack that has  little variation taking 20 wickets to win unless the ball moves around for the king of swing.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on September 22, 2017, 02:51:19 PM
I don't mind Ballance playing! I just think he is not a number 3 batsman. Batting at 5 he would be fine......but not at 3.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 22, 2017, 02:52:51 PM
He should be he did far better against Morkel and Co than his Replacements against the Windes but he needs to bat at five also because he bats ugly doesn't help his case.

Shame his only test match in Australia was batting at 5 and got out LBW and ct behind off Lyon.

His other 2 appearances v Australia were Bowled and Ct behind and LBW and ct behind.

Think they already have a plan to him. It wont be bowling short.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: justnotcricket86 on September 22, 2017, 03:19:24 PM
Rowland-Jones has a stress fracture of the back. Certainly rules him out of the Ashes...

That is a gutter. Feel for the bloke
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on September 22, 2017, 03:35:34 PM
Gutted for TRJ. Finn took a timely 8fer to remind the selectors he's still playing.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 22, 2017, 03:50:46 PM
I don't mind Ballance playing! I just think he is not a number 3 batsman. Batting at 5 he would be fine......but not at 3.

ballnace will be at 3 though, malan has done enough at 5 to stay there its westley who needed the runs and didnt get them unless we go in with an unchanged batting order! bayliss has said 1 game too many better than 1 game too few!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on September 24, 2017, 10:28:47 AM
Finch to replace Maxwell?

I know Maxwell bowls a bit but if you're picking No. 6/7 pinch hitters...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 24, 2017, 10:35:56 AM
ballnace will be at 3 though, malan has done enough at 5 to stay there its westley who needed the runs and didnt get them unless we go in with an unchanged batting order! bayliss has said 1 game too many better than 1 game too few!

Yes he probably will but  batting  at 3 he will struggle against the quicker ball.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: LateBloomer on September 24, 2017, 04:33:44 PM
Have any forum members managed to get tickets?

I fly to Perth for days 3&4 of that Test then have day 1&2 tickets for Melbourne

Will be in Sydney when the 5th Test is on so might also try and aquire tickets for that one.

Then I have ODI tickets for Brisbane, Adelaide and Sydney

If anyone fancies meeting up for a Fosters (Australian culture) get in touch. I am excessively generous at the bar when England win and even moderately when they lose so cash in!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 25, 2017, 04:33:30 AM
Finch to replace Maxwell?

I know Maxwell bowls a bit but if you're picking No. 6/7 pinch hitters...



No , please no . Even Cartwright,  who's only been around for a couple years,  scores more shield runs than Finch. Finch gets dropped from the vics shield side every now and then.....he's not the man , not by a long shot .
Why would you pick a 'pinch hitter' for a test match anyway ?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on September 25, 2017, 05:53:50 AM


No , please no . Even Cartwright,  who's only been around for a couple years,  scores more shield runs than Finch. Finch gets dropped from the vics shield side every now and then.....he's not the man , not by a long shot .
Why would you pick a 'pinch hitter' for a test match anyway ?

I was going to ask you about this.

From an Aussie viewpoint what do you think your side will be.

It looks like your top 5 are pretty nailed on (unlike ours!) But the no. 6 spit is very open?

Wade will probably keep the gloves.

Lyon will play, so it will be 3 quicks and fitness depending I would think it would be Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins?

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 25, 2017, 09:01:01 AM
According to the times, Vince will be on the plane, and Craig overton will be there as a replacement for TRJ

the vince selection, if it is correct, would be a massive step back, hes hardly done anything this year worthy of a call up!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 25, 2017, 09:21:48 AM
I was going to ask you about this.

From an Aussie viewpoint what do you think your side will be.

It looks like your top 5 are pretty nailed on (unlike ours!) But the no. 6 spit is very open?

Wade will probably keep the gloves.

Lyon will play, so it will be 3 quicks and fitness depending I would think it would be Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins?


Yep , i think you're right .
The only possible changes are cartwright/ m.marsh for maxwell ( i think maxwell will stay , although cartwright could come in at sydney allowing us to drop a paceman for agar ), and one could make a claim for nevill taking over from wade . Wade has been very poor with the bat since his return whereas nevill has been in good nick .
But , the xl for brisbane will likely be : Renshaw,  warner , khawaja,  smith, handsomb, maxwell, wade, starc, cummins, lyon, hazlewood.
Pretty much settled unless someone has a freakishly good/bad start to the shield season .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 25, 2017, 09:36:30 AM

Yep , i think you're right .
The only possible changes are cartwright/ m.marsh for maxwell ( i think maxwell will stay , although cartwright could come in at sydney allowing us to drop a paceman for agar ), and one could make a claim for nevill taking over from wade . Wade has been very poor with the bat since his return whereas nevill has been in good nick .
But , the xl for brisbane will likely be : Renshaw,  warner , khawaja,  smith, handsomb, maxwell, wade, starc, cummins, lyon, hazlewood.
Pretty much settled unless someone has a freakishly good/bad start to the shield season .



Having said that , the xl's I'd like to see are :

Brisbane: Renshaw,  warner, khawaja, smith, handsomb, maxwell, carey, starc, cummins, lyon, hazlewood
Adelaide : Renshaw,  warner, khawaja, smith, handsomb, maxwell, carey, Pattinson, starc, cummins, hazlewood
Perth : same as Adelaide
Melbourne : same as brisbane
Sydney : Renshaw,  warner , khawaja, smith, handsomb, wade, agar, pattinson, starc,cummins,  lyon,

Basically , brisbane and Melbourne we go with 3 pace/1 spin/1 part time spin attack. Adelaide and perth we go a 4 man pace attack. Sydney we go 2 proper spinners with 3 proper pacers ... we bolster the batting by selecting the 3 pacers who bat best , our (theoretically ) best keeper batsman and a spinner who can bat 7 .
Obviously , most of this would never happen...particularly the selection of carey as keeper . 
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on September 25, 2017, 09:47:05 AM
From and England XI, it feels like Stoneman has done well enough to get the number 2 slot.
Also Malan, Ballance or Hales may be marked for number 5. But neither Jennings nor Westley have taken their chances in the top order!
I suspect that Hameed will be looked at for number 3 slot next season and going forward. But maybe the selectors are looking at seeing who they think could play there on the types of tracks and bowling in the Ashes?
If they are not taking Westley on the plane, and they are looking for someone with Test experience to bat at 3, then I wouldn't take Vince. He is a class player for Hampshire but averages 19 in the 7 International Tests he has played.
If you are looking to play someone at number 3 who has been on decent form this season then either Robson or Hales could surely bat at 3? Robson has played the same amount of International Tests as Vince but averages over 30 with a 50 and a century to his name! And Hales has opened and averages 27 with 5 50s!
Should be an interesting selection announcement this week anyway!!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on September 25, 2017, 09:54:33 AM
I find it really interesting that both sides have completely different selection issues.

AUS have a settled top 5 and ours is all over the place.
AUS can't find/decide on a no.6/allrounder and we have enough Allrounders to fill an MPV.
AUS have possible keeper issues and we have one of the best in the world.

It should make for a fascinating series.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 25, 2017, 11:02:34 AM
According to the times, Vince will be on the plane, and Craig overton will be there as a replacement for TRJ

the vince selection, if it is correct, would be a massive step back, hes hardly done anything this year worthy of a call up!

Yes it would  it would  also highlight England's  selection limitations.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 25, 2017, 11:10:11 AM
Don't really agree with the Hales covers  two bases  idea as Hales  in tests average not good against the quicker bowlers 
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: justnotcricket86 on September 25, 2017, 11:26:21 AM
Westley just had to leave the field after taking a blow to the thumb.....

Every cricket journo I follow has just jumped all over it
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 25, 2017, 11:53:42 AM
Hales  in tests average not good against the quicker bowlers

He wasn't exactly playing his natural game! I think that was his downfall, if he's have been aggressive up top he'd have been much more successful
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 25, 2017, 12:03:28 PM
Hales may be in with a shout in the number 5 position I reckon with balance and interestingly mentioned above ..James Vince

Not sure if England will go back to balance it looks a close call between a couple of players

I know Westley is in the team now but he hasn't done enough for me...I would play malan at 5

But that leaves the number 3 spot not nailed down ?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 25, 2017, 12:04:03 PM
He wasn't exactly playing his natural game! I think that was his downfall, if he's have been aggressive up top he'd have been much more successful

Yep  in tests  he looked as if he was unsure to block or hit out.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on September 25, 2017, 12:06:39 PM
Westley just had to leave the field after taking a blow to the thumb.....

Every cricket journo I follow has just jumped all over it
The blow to the hand did look pretty bad, but to be fair the main reason he left the field was because he was out! Think that rules him out by the looks of it. Please not Vince though, the Aussie slip cordon will be rubbing their hands already.

Link to Westley clip : https://twitter.com/CountyChamp/status/912277383016849408
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 25, 2017, 12:14:00 PM
With regard to the number three spot  guess the Hales covers two bases  thinking ( test and ODI ) leaves room for an extra batsman to tour.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 25, 2017, 05:24:26 PM
Hales may be in with a shout in the number 5 position I reckon with balance and interestingly mentioned above ..James Vince

Not sure if England will go back to balance it looks a close call between a couple of players

I know Westley is in the team now but he hasn't done enough for me...I would play malan at 5

But that leaves the number 3 spot not nailed down ?

Vaughan has been pushing him too. Iím not sure why other than they share the same management company
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Tailendfielder on September 25, 2017, 06:44:28 PM
While vince has obviously not done alot in the county championship, I thought he had the ability and just needed to Sort out his shot selection. Easier to sort out than poor technique and lack of ability.

When you look back and dropping Robson, Hales and Compton, i feel We should have stuck with them. They would have scored at least as many runs as their replacements and by now they would be established players. Sometimes i think we are looking for the new Cook / Stokes / Root. Ok to have some average batters who average  late 30's. If there is nothing better available then why keep changing?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: FattusCattus on September 25, 2017, 07:39:07 PM
Looking at the possibility that there are up to 2 vacancies in our top order - let us consider the 'form' players in first classe cricket.

Qualifying, leading run scorers in both divisions include:

Burns
Browne (Essex)
Balance
Davis (Lancs)
Robson
Wells
Denly
Northeast
Clarke (Worcs)
Patel

Would any of the those be worth parachuting into the squad?

For me - Sam Robson, Samit Patel and Sam Northeast would all have the requisite balance of talent and experience. But are any of them in with even a remote chance?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on September 25, 2017, 07:47:14 PM
I agree with your analysis. Robson is a better bet for reserve opener than Jennings.

Samit would be my spin/batsman in case Ali goes down with chicken pox.

Northeast is like Hildreth, too many good runs scored under the pretence it's all a bit too easy wherever they bat.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on September 25, 2017, 09:01:52 PM
Yep I reckon you've smashed nail right ont head there Fattus, I'd take at least two of those and probably all 3.

Quick squad check...
Bankers:
Batters - Cook, Root
All-rounders - Stokes, Ali
Keepers - YJB
Bowlers - Woakes, Broad, Anderson

Highly likely:
Batters - Stoneman, Malan
Keepers - Foakes

Which is 4 batsmen, 2 all-rounders, 2 keepers and 3 seamers = 11 players.

Assuming the usual 17 man squad, that leaves 6 spots. Need a no3, backup spinner, at least one spare batsman and at least two seamers. Who are you picking CBF?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on September 25, 2017, 09:10:08 PM
I think I'm taking Robson, Samit Patel and Plunkett for sure. Then probably Overton and Northeast. Last spot goes to another contender for the top 3, I'm just not sure who!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Harry L on September 25, 2017, 09:14:20 PM
Cook
Hameed
Stoneman
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

Foakes,Malan,Plunkett,Rashid,Robson and A Nother.

Pretty worried about our bowling line up, itís all a bit samey. Which is why Iíd be tempted to take a left arm spinner or seamer so Patel or leach. No great left arm seamers come to mind? Most teams have one these days e.g Starc,Amir,Boult etc
Hopefully it will be Sam curran in a couple of years time.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 25, 2017, 09:28:19 PM
Fat cat has thrown a rock into CBF selection and if we need 6 players we are in trouble against the old enemy.

Thank god all there bowlers are crocked , they only have 2 batsmen smith and Warner, and their keeper is no good.  :)

I'm taking plunkett he has pace and if it gets tasty he looks very much like he punches first and asks questions later.

Wood cannot go, he cannot string two tests together, I'm sorry for all the Wood fans (I'm one too) but it's Simon Jones all over again.....if you can dine on one series the Welshman takes the biscuit bowling Clarke as he shoulders arms in 2005.  Get in !!  :)

Sorry got sidetracked in nostalgia.

Plunkett in, jake  ball in even thou someone said he has turned into a turd, I've seen him live he's got pace and height.

Second spinner Crane for me, unproven but cannot see him playing more than one test in Oz

Batting causes me headaches, I don't think Westley is ready/good enough, hameed has paper hands, back to Ballance?

Hmmm...I think big Pete mentioned James Vince, I think I will take him and hope he has grown a brain, he's got the shots but you can't play them all thru the covers at once.
Stoneman goes, Foakes as back up keeper, Malan starts the tests for me, bit surprised but he has something about him
Apart from that I don't know



Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on September 25, 2017, 09:35:02 PM
Oh for a Chris Tremlett-style automaton.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on September 25, 2017, 09:35:58 PM
And, with the greatest respect @ppccopener anyone picking Mason Crane needs a lie down in a darkened room.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on September 25, 2017, 09:49:55 PM
Oh for a Chris Tremlett-style automaton.
6'8" automatons built like a brick proverbial who bowl rapid lifters for England in Ashes tests are very much the best kind of automatons.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 25, 2017, 09:50:17 PM
Ashes 2017-18: England squad - as chosen by BBC Sport users - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41366988 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41366988)

No Vince and no Overton as options with this poll, both are being tipped as surprise inclusions. Vince looked classy but loved a soft dismissal-has much changed? His numbers aren't great this year. I have a feeling Hales will miss out, due to being susceptible against the short ball, eg:
https://youtu.be/Nxzg_yMnVYk (https://youtu.be/Nxzg_yMnVYk)

Root does well at 3 in the odi's, but seemingly won't do it....

I fear it will be a shootout between Ballance or Vince.
Who would I go for? I have no idea,I'm as confused as our selectors...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 25, 2017, 09:50:21 PM
And, with the greatest respect @ppccopener anyone picking Mason Crane needs a lie down in a darkened room.

I can't think of anyone else apart from Samit and if we are not taking him as the third spinner in India he's not getting a gig.

I'm going with Crane ....Leach???  :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 25, 2017, 09:52:39 PM
6'8" automatons built like a brick proverbial who bowl rapid lifters for England in Ashes tests are very much the best kind of automatons.

Tremlett came close to the boundary when we were at lorda s couple of years back and I thought it was one human on top of another human and moulded  together.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on September 25, 2017, 09:56:44 PM
I do like Vince but just think that there are people on better form!

Top order:
Cook, Stoneman, Robson, Root,
Hales, Malan, Ballance

All Rounders:
Stokes, Ali

Keepers:
Foakes, Bairstow

Bowlers:
Woakes, Broad, Anderson, Plunkett, Finn
Rashid


No Hameed or TRJ due to injuries!
No Crane as he is not ready, and needs more experience!
Finn for his height.

Starting XI would be:
Cook, Stoneman, Robson, Root, Malan, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Broad, Anderson.

Would prefer Hales at 5 but Malan has the slot at the moment.
As I said, number 3 is my biggest concern - Robson would be next on my list. But as they are pretty unlikely to consider taking him, I would rather see Vince at 3 than Seeing Ballance bat there!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 25, 2017, 11:19:53 PM
@ppccopener ..... oz have only 2 batsmen ? No , we have 3 and a half ! Khawaja is good enough on home tracks ( the half ) . English ashes observers gear up to witness the arrival of Peter Handscomb.  He will have a big series . You heard it here first . :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: DorsetDan on September 26, 2017, 06:57:58 AM
Tremlett came close to the boundary when we were at lorda s couple of years back and I thought it was one human on top of another human and moulded  together.

... and now he looks like about 4 humans moulded together  :o  :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 26, 2017, 08:13:31 AM
And, with the greatest respect @ppccopener anyone picking Mason Crane needs a lie down in a darkened room.
Agree with  PPOpener He may not play but England  to take Crane  for the experience
Now its time for that darkened room.
 
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on September 26, 2017, 08:24:05 AM
I kind of agree about Crane - didn't he play in Aus last season as the overseas and was fantastic?
But still think that Rashid deserves to go. He is a leggie which means something different from Ali and Root. Plus he has generally bowled well and taken wickets - plus as a bonus he is a very handy batsman down the order.
Crane will get his chance in the next year or two. Just don't think there is any need to rush him in yet. Send him over with the Lions as backup if need be though!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 26, 2017, 09:43:58 AM
If we are going to take a rookie leggie, what about this guy?!
http://m.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/653695.html (http://m.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/653695.html)

https://youtu.be/juzb1HJmElg (https://youtu.be/juzb1HJmElg)

We have a pretty poor record with treatment of our leggies-
Salisbury,Schofield, Rashid,Borthwick,all have been messed about imo- I think it would be a brave move to give Crane a go,of all places in Australia! Botham has been championing Leach,why is he not discussed-is it because he bowls in glasses and has dodgy teeth?! Vettori wore glasses and was pretty decent!!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mattdawson on September 26, 2017, 09:55:34 AM
Take a look at the delivery parkinson got stoneman with yesterday https://twitter.com/LancsCCC/status/912284070108962819. (https://twitter.com/LancsCCC/status/912284070108962819.) "whadda ripper" (warne accent)

Parkinson wont go though imo.

If they take one I think it will be Crane, had a decent time in Aus by all accounts and was first player not from there to play 1st class cricket in 32 years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/39193715 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/39193715) he will only play at sydney I'm sure.

Personally, I think Leach deserves a crack though as 2nd spinner, not sure what more he can do to get a gig.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rich041187 on September 26, 2017, 10:15:06 AM
Im guessing England still think Leach chucks it
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on September 26, 2017, 10:21:36 AM
Didn't he have a pretty stinky Lions tour last winter also?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Buzz on September 26, 2017, 10:39:11 AM
Take a look at the delivery parkinson got stoneman with yesterday https://twitter.com/LancsCCC/status/912284070108962819. (https://twitter.com/LancsCCC/status/912284070108962819.) "whadda ripper" (warne accent)


Should be not out as it is a back foot no ball.

I don't understand why Bess doesn't get a look in as a spinner.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mattdawson on September 26, 2017, 11:18:44 AM
Should be not out as it is a back foot no ball.

You think? I thought the camera was at a slight angle (offset to the right at bowlers end) giving it the look as a back foot no-ball.

Alex Davies in the runs again,had a great season, most runs and 2nd in keeper dismissals. If Foakes is in the squad, not seen enough to know how good he is, surely Davies is in the lions?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 26, 2017, 07:23:10 PM
Guardian think a couple are already selected(do they take a guess or really have inside info?)

Recalls for for ballance and Vince. I like both players myself I know some on here don't rate them, ballance can tough it out old fashioned style and you need o e or two in a test series who can do that and Vince has serious talent. Does he have a brain thou? Because you cannot get out the same way all the time. If you morphed Vince and gaz maybe that's perfect.

Jake ball and Overton in according the the papers.

But that's all insignificant, yes it matters not.

Whatever has happened on the Bristol night out is yet to be found out for sure,it may be serious it may not be. To me Stokes looks in a bundle of trouble.

But from purely a cricket point of view, can we replace him? I don't think anyone comes close and having grown up with Botham in my opinion he is as good as him. We need him in the side.

But if he can't go who would be picked instead? I would think we would have to drop a batsman and play the extra bowler maybe with bairstow moving up the order?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on September 26, 2017, 07:29:20 PM
His former partner in crime and fellow overly aggressive allrounder Matt Coles. Absolutely guaranteed to get in no trouble whatsover in Australia...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 26, 2017, 07:55:10 PM

But that's all insignificant, yes it matters not.

Whatever has happened on the Bristol night out is yet to be found out for sure,it may be serious it may not be. To me Stokes looks in a bundle of trouble.

I hate to but o agree here! I'm not sure the ecb would let hales back unless it was serious bother he must be the only witness that stokes can rely on! Anyway back you the point to replace stokes is nigh on impossible,

Without him for me woakes is the alrounder and bats at six!

Stokes is probably our most aggressive and quickest bowler so that needs replacing, if go for plunkett

Without benny and taking into all the roumors and hearsay I'd pick:

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Robson
Malan
Woakes
Bairstow
Ali
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson

And take
westley
Crane
Vince
Overton
Buttler
Ballance
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 26, 2017, 07:58:58 PM
I hate to but o agree here! I'm not sure the ecb would let hales back unless it was serious bother he must be the only witness that stokes can rely on! Anyway back you the point to replace stokes is nigh on impossible,

Without him for me woakes is the alrounder and bats at six!

Stokes is probably our most aggressive and quickest bowler so that needs replacing, if go for plunkett

Without benny and taking into all the roumors and hearsay I'd pick:

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Robson
Malan
Woakes
Bairstow
Ali
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson

And take
westley
Crane
Vince
Overton
Buttler
Ballance

Robson is purely gut instinct
If not have vince or ballance anywhere near my squad I'd take foakes and hales instead of those, tell root he is batting at 3 malan 4 hales 5 stokes obviously 6 (if able) then a bowling attack of 4 seamers stokes woakes broad Anderson and Ali as the spinner

I get the feeling that this is going to be a horrific ashes series for us and Bayliss won't be around much longer! I hope I'm wrong and we end up nicking a 2-1 win!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: LateBloomer on September 26, 2017, 08:34:29 PM
I will be absolutely devastated if Stokes is out of the Ashes! Been drooling over the thought of seeing him take on Starc and Cummins at Perth

Someone find out the name of the other guy involved in Bristol - time for some Corleone style witness intimidation
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 26, 2017, 08:39:44 PM
It could be except that the Aussies have there own problems.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 26, 2017, 08:46:50 PM
It could be except that the Aussies have there own problems.

Stokes is a big player, the Aussies if they can get Cummins,Starc and Patterson fit are a good attack. Lyon is decent despite some bad press on CBF!  :)

There is not enough quality either side for it to be real quality, it looks pretty even to me

If we are without Stokes, that would be a huge blow. Australia are no mugs and it's hard to win over there as history proves

It could be a tight series...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on September 26, 2017, 08:59:35 PM
It could be except that the Aussies have there own problems.

I'm not sure their best 11 is still up for debate in the same way as ours, but...
Looking at the lineup who played their last test:

M T Renshaw
D A Warner
S P D Smith*
P S P Handscomb
G J Maxwell
H W R Cartwright
M S Wade+
A C Agar
P J Cummins
S N J O'Keefe
N M Lyon

They're unlikely to play 3 spinners for the first Test, so Agar and O'keefe are likely to make way.
This leaves Gary the Goat as the front line spinner, with Big Show Maxwell there to send down some part time offies.
Should Maxwell make the final XI though? A few seem to think there are better alternatives.

I'm not sure on the fitness of the Aussie seamers, so this is a guess, but I think Starc and Hazlewood are likely to come in.

Having not seen much of Cartwright, I cannot really comment on how cemented his place is. He looks most likely to make way for Usman Khawaja, who has a great record at home. This then leaves the question as to where he slots into the order, in at 4 or does Smith move down?

I anticipate their lineup will be something like, those in italics the players who's spot isn't nailed down:
M Renshaw
D Warner
U Khawaja
S Smith*
P Handscomb
G Maxwell
M Wade+
M Starc
P J Cummins
J Hazlewood
N M Lyon

The biggest question mark over that side then looks to be Wade.
Has he done anything (other than shout "nice Gary") since his return that justifies him above Nevil?
Does Nevil come back into the side, does Hanscomb get the gloves or is there another keeper waiting in the wings?

Their issues don't seem as severe as our, but the series could be a lot closer than some people are anticipating.
I'm confident England will avoid another whitewash, at least! :-[
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Tom on September 26, 2017, 09:07:58 PM
Squad is apparently:
Cook,
Stoneman,
Vince,
Root (capt),
Malan,
Ballance,
Stokes,
Bairstow (wkt),
Foakes (wkt),
Moeen,
Crane,
Woakes,
Broad,
Anderson,
Ball,
C.Overton.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/cricket/4554082/england-ashes-squad-james-vince-handed-shock-place-in-side-with-ben-stokes-also-included/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/cricket/4554082/england-ashes-squad-james-vince-handed-shock-place-in-side-with-ben-stokes-also-included/)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on September 26, 2017, 09:10:17 PM
A lot depends on the first test.

Both sides have some world class players and also some major gaps or question marks, s such that at the moment it looks like a battle between our middle order and their Seam attack.

If we go to the Gabba and lose, it is really hard to see a way back. If we win or draw, it gets easier as Adelaide could favour us, and Melbourne cancels out Perth (assuming the WACA - on a drop in we may be quids in).

So, for me, it's 4 or 5-0 or 2-2.

Big call on selection tomorrow. If the press are right and it's Vince, Ballance, Ball, Overton I'm skeptical.

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on September 26, 2017, 09:13:07 PM
I hate to but o agree here! I'm not sure the ecb would let hales back unless it was serious bother he must be the only witness that stokes can rely on! Anyway back you the point to replace stokes is nigh on impossible,

Without him for me woakes is the alrounder and bats at six!

Stokes is probably our most aggressive and quickest bowler so that needs replacing, if go for plunkett

Without benny and taking into all the roumors and hearsay I'd pick:

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Robson
Malan
Woakes
Bairstow
Ali
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson

And take
westley
Crane
Vince
Overton
Buttler
Ballance

If Woakes is picked to bat ahead of YJB the so world has gone mad
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 26, 2017, 09:23:05 PM
A lot depends on the first test.

Both sides have some world class players and also some major gaps or question marks, s such that at the moment it looks like a battle between our middle order and their Seam attack.

If we go to the Gabba and lose, it is really hard to see a way back. If we win or draw, it gets easier as Adelaide could favour us, and Melbourne cancels out Perth (assuming the WACA - on a drop in we may be quids in).

So, for me, it's 4 or 5-0 or 2-2.

Big call on selection tomorrow. If the press are right and it's Vince, Ballance, Ball, Overton I'm skeptical.



I think the press are right, Malan has the spot in the middle order at the moment. Slightly surprised about Vince but he's a good player with potential.

hales had a case(presuming he is out) but it's about the best we could do. Rashid finished in test match cricket for sure now.

I think we will only play one spinner Really in all matches thou, maybe Sydney is the only track to play 2....hope Mo don't get injured...or get in trouble  :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: joeljonno on September 26, 2017, 09:34:06 PM
I'd really like to see another all-rounder in at 5, someone who can bat but bowl a bit (6th bowler). Just not sure who that could be. Otherwise a Ballance/Hales/Malan choice.

I'd really like to see Robson at 3, or open at Stoneman 3 as Root wants 4.

Shame TRJ got injured, hope he's fit again soon.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on September 26, 2017, 10:18:03 PM
For those who like stats, this BBC article gives an excellent table comparing the hopefuls!

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41404874 (http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41404874)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Tom on September 26, 2017, 10:20:11 PM
Vaughan and ISM using their influence again
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on September 26, 2017, 10:23:55 PM
Oh no... Vince struggles with the step up from div 2 of the county championship to div 1, never mind test cricket! If that selection's been made then it really has all gone wrong.

edit: the ECB media mouthpiece, aka the Telegraph, is reporting the same. Vince at 3 and Malan 5 it is then. Never mind, at least when Vince fails we'll have... Gary 'but there's nothing wrong with my technique' Ballance! Can see Foakes getting a debut this winter.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on September 26, 2017, 10:45:11 PM
Hand me my noose
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 27, 2017, 05:50:41 AM
According to aggers the squad has been leaked

Root, Cook, Stoneman, Malan, Ballance, Vince, Moeen, Crane, Foakes, Bairstow, Stokes, Woakes, Broad, Anderson, Ball, Overton.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 27, 2017, 06:25:44 AM
Yes and you would presume Malan stays in the same position Vince or Ballance at 3. I donít think Gaz is a number 3 bat more like 5....

Or... :) Root moves up to take the trouble spot which he should imo

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on September 27, 2017, 06:54:12 AM
Basically we have a heap of 4/5's and nobody comfortable at 3 other than the skipper who doesn't like it.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on September 27, 2017, 06:59:43 AM
FFS don't mind the bowling but Balance really?

He's proved time and time and time again he cannot cut it at the top level, he may score thousands of championship runs but he gets found out every time at international level and refuses to change

May as well play with 10 rather than pick him, can't believe no Hales unless this weeks events have poo pood that

Got to be Roots call to get his mate in as no other considerable reason he should be near the side. Then again maybe he makes the nest squash in the world ever?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on September 27, 2017, 07:46:39 AM
The way I look at it, Ballance has proved that he is no good batting at 3. As Root is at 4, this means that he can only really bat at 5 or below.
But we already have Malan and Hales who can bat at 5? So why have three who can bat at 5?
Or maybe they are thinking that Hales has batted at 2 and may be ok as an alternate 3 batsman?
This would mean...

Cook
Stoneman
Vince or Hales
Root
Malan or Ballance
Stokes
etc!

I guess we will only find out in November!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 27, 2017, 07:50:21 AM
Basically we have a heap of 4/5's and nobody comfortable at 3 other than the skipper who doesn't like it.

Exactly I really really don't buy the issue with root at 3, he got 250 last time I saw him bat there

It reminds me of my club side where everyone wants to bat 5
Complete nonsense
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Neon Cricket on September 27, 2017, 08:11:07 AM
Are we still unable to have a press release without it being leaked first? ECB is a total shambles

On a side note, glad to see Foakes and Overton included - both well deserved. Probably won't see the field but good experience nonetheless.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: justnotcricket86 on September 27, 2017, 08:12:42 AM
Are we still unable to have a press release without it being leaked first? ECB is a total shambles

On a side note, glad to see Foakes and Overton included - both well deserved. Probably won't see the field but good experience nonetheless.

The RFU are the same mate. Telegraph gets every story before other papers
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 27, 2017, 08:17:44 AM
If Woakes is picked to bat ahead of YJB the so world has gone mad

The world has gone mad! I heard aggers on tms suggest woakes could open!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Neon Cricket on September 27, 2017, 08:31:30 AM
The RFU are the same mate. Telegraph gets every story before other papers

At least it's the Torygraph - the best the ECB can do is the Sun!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 27, 2017, 08:34:18 AM
According to aggers the squad has been leaked

Root, Cook, Stoneman, Malan, Ballance, Vince, Moeen, Crane, Foakes, Bairstow, Stokes, Woakes, Broad, Anderson, Ball, Overton.

Crane in the squad ? Can i now come out of the darkened room.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 27, 2017, 08:39:33 AM
Exactly I really really don't buy the issue with root at 3, he got 250 last time I saw him bat there

It reminds me of my club side where everyone wants to bat 5
Complete nonsense
Read somewhere it's
 more To do with the new ball.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 27, 2017, 09:08:54 AM
Ballance vince and ball have recalls, no mark wood

Overton, crane and foakes the uncapped players

Weak selections regarding the batting

Feeling pessimistic already
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: FattusCattus on September 27, 2017, 09:09:21 AM
Crane in and no recall for Rashid with the dearth of spinners we have.

I'm no Rashid fan, but there has to be some other reason other than ability that he's not even getting a mention - I'm guessing he's not Root and The Coach's sort of 'chap'.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: jamielsn15 on September 27, 2017, 09:14:12 AM
The definition of insanity - Gary Ballance doing the same thing over and over again and expecting not to get out bowled or lbw
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on September 27, 2017, 09:15:15 AM
Well it's an interesting looking squad, if nothing else...

Quote
Joe Root (Yorkshire) captain
Moeen Ali (Worcestershire)
James Anderson (Lancashire)
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Jake Ball (Nottinghamshire)
Gary Ballance (Yorkshire)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Alastair Cook (Essex)
Mason Crane (Hampshire)
Ben Foakes (Surrey)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Craig Overton (Somerset)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Mark Stoneman (Surrey)
James Vince (Hampshire)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 27, 2017, 09:15:36 AM
reading the live feed someone mentioned those recalled have done nothing to warrant inclusion, but the more i think of it, who has done something to warrant inclusion,

the ballance selection is just plain insulting to the fans, he has sown no desire to improve, keeps getting picked and getting out in the same manner without scoring large volumes of runs

but no point ranting over the same theme

good news is i think we can all agree that foakes does deserve the call up and could potentially get in the side on batting alone now we know the squad what would peoples starting 11 be?

Cook
Stoneman
????? itll be vince but id like root here foakes at 4
Root
malan
stokes
bairstow
ali
woakes
broad
anderson
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on September 27, 2017, 09:17:22 AM
Vince and Ballance. End the suffering. Please.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on September 27, 2017, 09:19:30 AM
Vince and Ballance. End the suffering. Please.

With Vince at 3 snicking off early you may as well just cut out the middle man and put Root there, hadn't you?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Harry L on September 27, 2017, 09:21:45 AM
HORRIBLE squad.

If we arenít picking players on form, why didnít we pick Hameed to bat at 3! At least he has a bit of grit and determination about him!

Think I disagree with four of the selections. Ballance, Crance, Vince and Ball.

Overton is fair enough as I think I read out of the seamers to take 100 wickets in the last 3 seasons in the county championship, he has the best average.

Instead of the four selected that I disagree with I think I wouldíve selected Plunkett, Rashid/Leach, Hameed and then another batsmen, probably Robson.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: joeljonno on September 27, 2017, 09:26:44 AM
Crane in and no recall for Rashid with the dearth of spinners we have.

I'm no Rashid fan, but there has to be some other reason other than ability that he's not even getting a mention - I'm guessing he's not Root and The Coach's sort of 'chap'.

Rashid bailed on Yorkshire's Championship decider vs Middlesex at the end of 2016 "because he was a bit tired". I think Root doesn't want him because of that.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: jamielsn15 on September 27, 2017, 09:26:56 AM
I'd go with Cook, Strauss, Trott, KP, Bell, Collingwood, Prior, Swann, Broad, Tremlett, Anderson.

Sorry.

Cook,  Stoneman, Vince, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Foakes, Moeen, Woakes, Broad, Anderson.

I've never been an advocate of moving YJB up, but they've picked a great keeper who can bat and I'm worried about having Stoneman, Vince and Malan in the top five.

The number three position will determine whethernwe win the Ashes or not.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 27, 2017, 09:29:40 AM
It's all very well saying the selectors got it wrong,it's a poor squad,etc etc, but the alternatives weren't great either...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 27, 2017, 09:30:07 AM
You would have thought Plunkett had a case to be included done nothing wrong experienced one of the fittest  would get  plenty of pace and bounce in oz.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 27, 2017, 09:32:00 AM
It's all very well saying the selectors got it wrong,it's a poor squad,etc etc, but the alternatives weren't great either...

Yes batting wise probably the best they could come up with.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: RhysH on September 27, 2017, 09:33:36 AM
Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root, Stokes, Bairstow, Foakes (wk), Moeen, Woakes, Broad, Anderson.
Bairstow is very capable in the field and can always step in to WK if Foakes is having a poor series.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on September 27, 2017, 09:43:10 AM
Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root, Stokes, Bairstow, Foakes (wk), Moeen, Woakes, Broad, Anderson.

I would usually be one for leaving Bairstow at 7, but I agree that we may need to change the order a little!
Still unsure whether Stokes will want to move up to 5 - so Bairstow and Stokes at 5/6 (whichever way round suits them!)
But I still suspect they will want to keep Malan at 5, which means that there will be no place for Foakes, which would be a real shame!
Foakes defo as main keeper. Bairstow has improved but Foakes is an awesome keeper!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on September 27, 2017, 09:43:22 AM
When's the Lions party announced?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 27, 2017, 09:44:50 AM
as ive previously said i think foakes is a good selction but if we need a secondary keeper/batsman surely it has to be Alex Davies from lancs (playing devils advocate here)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on September 27, 2017, 09:46:45 AM
You would have thought Plunkett had a case to be included done nothing wrong experienced one of the fittest  would get  plenty of pace and bounce in oz.

@Seniorplayer Plunkett would likely be a better pick that Ball (who averages about 114 with the ball!) but his face doesn't seem to fit for some reason.

Looking at the seam options of Anderson, Broad, Ball, Overton, Stokes  & Woakes there's nobody with anything to worry the Aussies. Someone like Plunkett or Wood with a bit of pace would add some variety to the attack. We seem to have picked a barrage of 80 odd MPH bowlers to put it on a spot for the Aussies to feast on! :(
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 27, 2017, 09:55:23 AM
@Seniorplayer Plunkett would likely be a better pick that Ball (who averages about 114 with the ball!) but his face doesn't seem to fit for some reason.

Looking at the seam options of Anderson, Broad, Ball, Overton, Stokes  & Woakes there's nobody with anything to worry the Aussies. Someone like Plunkett or Wood with a bit of pace would add some variety to the attack. We seem to have picked a barrage of 80 odd MPH bowlers to put it on a spot for the Aussies to feast on! :(
Yep as already written to samey unless the ball nips around for the king of swing to reverse it.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: wasted_talent on September 27, 2017, 09:55:43 AM
Its a weak squad - with a very weak back up players on offer.

How Balance and Vince are selected is beyond me. Would have been better off sticking with Westley - and what about Burns from Surrey?

Bowling wise, what does Leach have to do to get selected?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: FattusCattus on September 27, 2017, 10:00:51 AM
It is easy to criticise the squad, but as previously mentioned, the alternatives aren't there either -

Vince & Balance shouldn't be in there, but I couldn't select a 2 or 3 with enough experience and form to make the trip. Hameed is injured, I think I would've put Robson and Samit in instead of those two for a spare opener and a bit of batting experience.

I'm happy with Crane - why not, I don't think Leach operates well under pressure (last Lions tour) and Rashid is a bit of a liability

The seamers are much of a muchness, so I would've had Plunko over Ball - sadly there is no left armer making a case anywhere in the shires, and stop suggesting Wood - his body is not up to an Ashes series.

For me, it's a shaky squad and I would've changed about 4 of them. Pleased for Foakes though.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Harry L on September 27, 2017, 10:01:13 AM
@Seniorplayer Plunkett would likely be a better pick that Ball (who averages about 114 with the ball!) but his face doesn't seem to fit for some reason.

Looking at the seam options of Anderson, Broad, Ball, Overton, Stokes  & Woakes there's nobody with anything to worry the Aussies. Someone like Plunkett or Wood with a bit of pace would add some variety to the attack. We seem to have picked a barrage of 80 odd MPH bowlers to put it on a spot for the Aussies to feast on! :(

Plunkett and Overton wouldíve been the pack up seamers for me. Overton isnít exactly slow either and can put the ball in the right areas consistently and Plunkett just seems to take wickets wherever he is. Baffles me that we didnít select him, especially as heís probably one of the fittest bowlers in the country.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Harry L on September 27, 2017, 10:03:02 AM
Its a weak squad - with a very weak back up players on offer.

How Balance and Vince are selected is beyond me. Would have been better off sticking with Westley - and what about Burns from Surrey?

Bowling wise, what does Leach have to do to get selected?
Statistically yes, they should have selected Burns but it is a lot easier to score runs on a flat oval pitch than somewhere up north like Durham.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 27, 2017, 10:15:21 AM
More good news-Stokes fractures finger on right hand- I wonder how he did that?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on September 27, 2017, 10:17:07 AM
For me this screams of the fact that Bayliss doesn't get around enough to watch CC cricket and keeps on going back to players he knows even though they have failed - you can talk as much as you want about they know the set-up but if your rubbish then that doesn't matter  :(

There may not have been many outstanding candidates on the batting front but there were surely better options even if untried at Test level.

For me we have brought this on ourselves a bit by Root not batting himself at 3.

I do really like the Foakes and Crane selections though. Foakes has been outstanding all season and Crane has experience of bowling in Oz with NSW.

I am very surprised that Plunkett didn't get picked as i think he really could have made an impact into the Oz top order. They obviously didn't feel they could rely on Wood's fitness so Overton got selected - which again i think is justified.

My side would be -

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Foakes
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

This relies on Root growing a pair and moving up to 3 - i really don't think Vince or Ballance are up to it - and Foakes will do will with the gloves and hold his own at 8 - we all know YJB is more then capable in the field.



Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: wasted_talent on September 27, 2017, 10:24:18 AM
Statistically yes, they should have selected Burns but it is a lot easier to score runs on a flat oval pitch than somewhere up north like Durham.

Arent a lot of the wickets in Oz going to be flat, alebit it with pace and bounce? I think playing at the Oval would have stood him in good stead?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 27, 2017, 10:27:33 AM
Could we all be a bit surprised and they prep 5 turning wickets due to a worry over the fitness of there quicks? Or am I being silly?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 27, 2017, 10:31:54 AM
Whatever Ballance has over Root i need to find out what it is and get the same with my skipper, guaranteed place in the team regardless of performances
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Mpt7 on September 27, 2017, 10:47:29 AM
Balance is a sacrifical lamb to carry the drinks

Hales/Roy should go at 5 or 6 as with little swing they could be the most destructive players on the tour - although Malan could do this too just worry about Lyon confusing him

Foakes - Great.
Vince - is his technique better suited to Aus conditions. Also anothe captain in what will be a tough tour
Crane - fine potential. If there is an injury to Ali then perhaps they plunder the lions
Seamers - I donít fancy Porter is Aus who takenna bucket load in the championship. Itís not like we have a deep stock of fast fast bowlers - wood will play one test and contribute to winning it

Itís not the great squad however it has enough to beat the Aussies. Let the fun begin

More concerned at the need to tell everyone in September whilst the Aussie are waiting till November!!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Over Gully on September 27, 2017, 10:52:05 AM
England are going to get embarrassed.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 27, 2017, 12:14:42 PM
Balance is a sacrifical lamb to carry the drinks

Hales/Roy should go at 5 or 6 as with little swing they could be the most destructive players on the tour - although Malan could do this too just worry about Lyon confusing him

Foakes - Great.
Vince - is his technique better suited to Aus conditions. Also anothe captain in what will be a tough tour
Crane - fine potential. If there is an injury to Ali then perhaps they plunder the lions
Seamers - I donít fancy Porter is Aus who takenna bucket load in the championship. Itís not like we have a deep stock of fast fast bowlers - wood will play one test and contribute to winning it

Itís not the great squad however it has enough to beat the Aussies. Let the fun begin

More concerned at the need to tell everyone in September whilst the Aussie are waiting till November!!

I wonder if Crane will also get named in the Lions squad, he will learn more playing cricket than he will running drinks.

I suspect they have to announce the side early to avoid players either booking holidays and then having to cancel or to stop them signing up for t20 franchises (applies more to the fringe players i guess)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on September 27, 2017, 12:25:29 PM

More concerned at the need to tell everyone in September whilst the Aussie are waiting till November!!

They leave on October 28th - so the most they really could of left it is a couple more weeks
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Big Mac on September 27, 2017, 12:43:15 PM
Crane in and no recall for Rashid with the dearth of spinners we have.

I'm no Rashid fan, but there has to be some other reason other than ability that he's not even getting a mention - I'm guessing he's not Root and The Coach's sort of 'chap'.

No, I think everyone is slowly waking up to the fact that Rashid is a bit crap.

Rashid's biggest selling point by far was "He's not Moeen Ali" during the days when the poor, misguided doubters believed our Mo couldn't bowl.

Now that everyone has realised that Moeen is the best thing in the world, "not Moeen Ali" doesn't hold the same appeal and people are starting to look at whether Rashid can actually bowl and the scales are starting to fall from their eyes.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 27, 2017, 01:10:31 PM
Could we all be a bit surprised and they prep 5 turning wickets due to a worry over the fitness of there quicks? Or am I being silly?


Nope , we will duly supply you with boring , bog standard drop in  pitches , equipped with no seam , no swing , no turn , surprisingly little pace and less bounce than expected . I'm sure you'll all be mightily impressed .  ;) :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 27, 2017, 01:14:20 PM
I'm not conVINCEd you guys selected a team with the right balLance !


But , geez , I hope england field a side with foakes , stokes , and woakes .... can't wait for our crappy commentators to drop their bundle over that !
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on September 27, 2017, 01:18:07 PM
Good luck to everyone selected. I hope they do themselves and England proud.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 27, 2017, 01:49:58 PM
I'm not conVINCEd you guys selected a team with the right balLance !


But , geez , I hope england field a side with foakes , stokes , and woakes .... can't wait for our crappy commentators to drop their bundle over that !

Haha!!  Slats, haydos and the truly awful Clarky

And thatís from the land that gave us the great Richie Benaud


ĎDonít  bother looking for thatí still my favourite line ever

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on September 28, 2017, 02:11:51 AM
Watched the Sky Trescothick masterclass today. Found it really interesting when he was talking about how he uses a big backwards trigger in county cricket, but that doing that wouldn't work with the increased pace in internationals, so he just stayed nice and still and focused on leaning into the ball instead. Could someone at the ECB book Gary Ballance a trip to Taunton for a chat in between now and November?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 28, 2017, 05:26:51 AM
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/cricket/4563431/ben-stokes-england-axe-shocking-video-street-punch# (https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/cricket/4563431/ben-stokes-england-axe-shocking-video-street-punch#) footage of stokes punching two fellas. Can only presume he'll claim self defence as the guy was swinging first. The bloke at the end went down quicker than England in the sub continent
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: JB on September 28, 2017, 06:08:34 AM
Self defense? He'll be lucky!! He walks after one of them, continually punching him as the fella backs off with his hands up passively until he puts him on his back. That isn't self defense
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: RhysH on September 28, 2017, 06:27:23 AM
He will be very lucky to dodge jail let alone get into AUS for the ashes.
Most normal people would get jail for that.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 06:45:14 AM
Self defense? He'll be lucky!! He walks after one of them, continually punching him as the fella backs off with his hands up passively until he puts him on his back. That isn't self defense

Could he be backing off because his attempt at bottling somebody hadn't worked??? Amazing how people turn into cowards once a weapon is taken from them...
Not excusing the excessive punches at the end of the footage but Ffs the guy is hardly innocent when trying to bottle someone...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 28, 2017, 07:14:14 AM
Publishing the video means his defence team will Claim he couldnt possibly get a fair trial, another ecb organised leak?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 28, 2017, 07:24:42 AM
Isn't Stokes getting married next week? Perhaps Hales,as his best man,will share some amusing anecdotes from their raucous nights out as single men...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 28, 2017, 07:33:20 AM
Isn't Stokes getting married next week? Perhaps Hales,as his best man,will share some amusing anecdotes from their raucous nights out as single men...

Ha "bring up all you want about ex girlfriends but dont mention Bristol"
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: RhysH on September 28, 2017, 07:34:21 AM
Publishing the video means his defence team will Claim he couldnt possibly get a fair trial, another ecb organised leak?
Had someone say this to me earlier.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on September 28, 2017, 07:44:18 AM
Could he be backing off because his attempt at bottling somebody hadn't worked??? Amazing how people turn into cowards once a weapon is taken from them...
Not excusing the excessive punches at the end of the footage but Ffs the guy is hardly innocent when trying to bottle someone...

This sums up my general view of the situation, it's easy to say "walk away" but that's difficult when you've just had a bottle waved in your face.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: RhysH on September 28, 2017, 07:46:02 AM
Hales booting the guy that is on the floor to end the first brawl?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: wcc on September 28, 2017, 07:48:22 AM
Hales booting the guy that is on the floor to end the first brawl?
Looks like it to me when i watched it again. Gives him a kicking runs off and comes back and starts booting the bloke on the floor in the head.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: FattusCattus on September 28, 2017, 07:51:29 AM
Hales booting the guy that is on the floor to end the first brawl?

This doesn't look good given the kind of sharp, pointy shoes you young people like to wear with your skinny jeans on a night out these days!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on September 28, 2017, 07:58:17 AM
Does this mean Darren Stevens is going to be selected?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 08:21:08 AM
Does this mean Darren Stevens is going to be selected?

Yes, Rick, yes it does... ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kieron_BT on September 28, 2017, 08:29:24 AM
Couldn't agree more with Chris above

Does it look bad? Of course it looks bad.

However, if all the reports are true and these guys have tried to attack Stokes/Hales/Anyone with a bottle and Stokes has the guts and power to finish it then good on him, the guys got exactly what they deserved.

Of course the video looks bad, they have only shown the footage of Stokes. Don't forget this is the Sun that has put this video into the public. Who knows what other video evidence they have been given that they haven't shown?

Its all well and good sat typing on a forum saying he should do this, he shouldn't do that but until you are in that situation you have no idea how you will react.

Just put yourself in the position of you being outside a club and 2 drunk idiots coming and attacking your Mrs/friend with a bottle. Would you just 'leave it' and walk away? Should he have just left it? Yeah probably in a perfect world, but it isn't.

As Max would put it "Play with feathers, you get your arsed tickled!"
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Calzehbhoy on September 28, 2017, 08:37:32 AM
Wasn't Warner hailed as an Ozzie hero (after his ban) for punching Root?

Bloke clearly swings a bottle, good on Stokes for putting him on his (No Swearing Please)!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on September 28, 2017, 08:44:42 AM
It will be a case of whether the guy wants to press charges, i know that sounds obvious but i am sure the ECB money men can be very persuasive when they want to be. 

I know you can see Hales put the boot in there but it makes you wonder how the discussions want about Hales selection. I mean he was a contender to go and must have been talked about etc.... but this probably ruled him out straight away.

For me i am glad Stokes flattened him.... you back up your mates no questions asked.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Neon Cricket on September 28, 2017, 08:47:17 AM
Just put yourself in the position of you being outside a club and 2 drunk idiots coming and attacking your Mrs/friend with a bottle. Would you just 'leave it' and walk away? Should he have just left it? Yeah probably in a perfect world, but it isn't.

Yes, because I'm not a f**king idiot - let the police sort out the bloke with the bottle. When has taking the law into your own hands ever worked out for anyone?

Could I end it Stokes-esq? Probably. Would I? Nah.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: jamielsn15 on September 28, 2017, 08:54:17 AM
No good ever came from paper headlines that start with 'Premier league star/England player/professional sportsman was in/leaving (insert name of) bar/nightclub/casino.' Ever.

Far too many local lads tanked up on the batman juice who want to get a rise out of sports pro. And they nearly always do. Silly boy. Pay me over a million quid and I'd happily pay for a private room, or drink in my hotel bar,  etc.

The Warner issue was different as you had all parties definitely not wanting to press charges. Having spoken to a couple of cricket club mates who are coppers, they've said he's in trouble.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kieron_BT on September 28, 2017, 08:59:13 AM
Yes, because I'm not a f**king idiot - let the police sort out the bloke with the bottle. When has taking the law into your own hands ever worked out for anyone?

Could I end it Stokes-esq? Probably. Would I? Nah.

And where were the police to sort it out? They weren't there!

So the next time someone gets attacked with a bottle they should turn around and say "Please don't do that, the police will be here in 20 minutes to deal with this. Please can you stand over there while they arrive to sort this out?"

As a said previously no-one on this forum was there, no-one knows what happened. You would be ok if Stokes had left this go, turned around and walked away and the guy picked up another bottle and glassed him from behind? These are the sort of drunken idiots we are talking about here. But it's ok, the police will deal with it then.

Get off your high horse mate.

If Stokes has done this with no provocation what-so-ever then I'm in total agreement that it is wayyyyy out of order and he will be dealt with as he should be.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kieron_BT on September 28, 2017, 09:00:59 AM
As a side note to the actual episode which has resulted in this, I do agree with the point that Stokes etc. should have never put themselves in this position in the first place.

They are professional athletes in the middle of a cricket series, they shouldn't have even been in a club as 2.30am in the morning for this to happen in the first place.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 09:02:21 AM
Yes, because I'm not a f**king idiot - let the police sort out the bloke with the bottle. When has taking the law into your own hands ever worked out for anyone?

Could I end it Stokes-esq? Probably. Would I? Nah.

I notice you are asking the question because you have not been in that situation? I didn't see any Police on the videos so he couldn't ask them to intervene when he saw the bloke with the bottle coming towards people..

Personally I think you are a f***ing idiot because you are commenting on something you have no experience of...
Don't see the point of name calling someone when you don't know the full facts or have been in a similar situation...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 09:07:05 AM
No good ever came from paper headlines that start with 'Premier league star/England player/professional sportsman was in/leaving (insert name of) bar/nightclub/casino.' Ever.

Far too many local lads tanked up on the batman juice who want to get a rise out of sports pro. And they nearly always do. Silly boy. Pay me over a million quid and I'd happily pay for a private room, or drink in my hotel bar,  etc.

The Warner issue was different as you had all parties definitely not wanting to press charges. Having spoken to a couple of cricket club mates who are coppers, they've said he's in trouble.

Interesting... I know of a few coppers who have done similar things on a night out and those coppers still kept their jobs...
In fact a famous copper ran someone over on a pedestrian crossing whilst under the influence and still kept his job and pension...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 28, 2017, 09:07:12 AM
I think it's the extreme reaction from Stokes that concerns me. Ok if he throws a couple of punches, but he behaves like a raged animal who has just been released from his cage,going again and again- at one point a mate (Hales?) Tries to pull him away,but  Stokes can't stop himself.
To me the issue  a here is alcohol -needs to give up the booze as it turns him,horrible to see.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 09:15:35 AM
I think it's the extreme reaction from Stokes that concerns me. Ok if he throws a couple of punches, but he behaves like a raged animal who has just been released from his cage,going again and again- at one point a mate (Hales?) Tries to pull him away,but  Stokes can't stop himself.
To me the issue  a here is alcohol -needs to give up the booze as it turns him,horrible to see.

Don't think anybody can say he didn't take it to far.. The drinking is an interesting debate... Yes he has had problems over the years but he is still only 26 and hopefully this incident will make him choose more wisely where he goes for a drink HOWEVER there is no place in society for anyone to threaten people with a bottle.. Bottom line is that if the guy had not threatened people with that bottle then Stokes and Hales would have had a drink and gone back to the hotel. IMO nothing wrong with that even at 2.30 am..
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kieron_BT on September 28, 2017, 09:19:26 AM
Agreed Tate, certainly went too far, it's the line saying he should have just walked away and left it that winds me up.

No problem with being in a club at 2.30am in between series' but not in-between games, but that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 28, 2017, 09:24:19 AM
The problem with booze is it makes one more vulnerable- especially if you are in a club environment, where the majority drink to excess. Stokes isn't an 18 year old fresher anymore- I suggest that if they hadn't made the initial poor choice of venue,this would never have happened. In any case,this is a sad situation,and the Ashes will be a poorer spectacle without him,if indeed he is banned/charged
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: FattusCattus on September 28, 2017, 09:27:37 AM
Yep - it seems many of us are coming round to the same conclusion.

The fisticuffs were not good, but he looks like he;s been seriously provoked.

However, you have to question the wisdom of being p*ssed up at 2.30am in a city centre, away from your mates and in the middle of a series, as opposed to being p*ssed up at 2.30am in your luxurious hotel bar with all your mates and in the middle of a series.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 28, 2017, 09:38:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/B2vGyrX.jpg)

Unfortunate cover in last weeks Times supplement....
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: jamielsn15 on September 28, 2017, 09:45:11 AM
Interesting... I know of a few coppers who have done similar things on a night out and those coppers still kept their jobs...
In fact a famous copper ran someone over on a pedestrian crossing whilst under the influence and still kept his job and pension...

So that brings us onto the question of privilege, in a week where an Oxford uni student was spared jail time for stabbing her boyfriend as the judge felt it would harm her career prospects.

It also depends on the CPS and their intent to prosecute such crimes. Whether ABH is a current issue for them, who knows? Many factors to take into account, but as I say, the consensus with law enforcememt colleagues is that we dont see what happened before, but he went way too far.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: justnotcricket86 on September 28, 2017, 09:59:41 AM
The way our justice system is these days, Stokes will get banged up.

However, how many times you read in the news that these sick bastards get caught with indecent images and get put on a list and sent home, and as mentioned above, that little cow who stabbed someone and got away with it.[
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Smmatle1 on September 28, 2017, 10:17:13 AM
I can't see the other guy pressing charges if he instigated the incident....attacking someone with a weapon! Police could still press charges.

You can use reasonable force to defend yourself or others, but this goes way beyond that point. The original aggressors were seemingly backing off and the others were heard saying "that's enough". I know it's heat of the moment stuff and we don't know the full facts, but looks like he could be in trouble. Video doesn't show what preceded the incident nor how it ended....Sun edited for max damage?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: justnotcricket86 on September 28, 2017, 10:18:12 AM
I can't see the other guy pressing charges if he instigated the incident....attacking someone with a weapon! Police could still press charges.

You can use reasonable force to defend yourself or others, but this goes way beyond that point. The original aggressors were seemingly backing off and the others were heard saying "that's enough". I know it's heat of the moment stuff and we don't know the full facts, but looks like he could be in trouble. Video doesn't show what preceded the incident nor how it ended....Sun edited for max damage?

Of course it's been edited. It's the Sun
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on September 28, 2017, 10:31:57 AM
They are the 2 biggest questions for me -

1. What haven't we seen - there is definitely more to that video - and obviously The Sun have previous when it comes to altering the truth for headlines!

2. Who is then going to press charges

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kieron_BT on September 28, 2017, 10:32:21 AM
According to rumours on Twitter, and I enhance the word rumours, Stokes has given his side of the story.

Apparently the 2 guys threatening, taunting and abusing 2 gay men (I know being gay has nothing to do with this, just simply going on the Twitter rumours). Stokes was incensed by the abuse the 2 men were giving and preceded to raise a bottle to potentially attempt to attack the 2 men and potentially Stokes himself.

Stokes took matters into his own hands as seen in the video. He has the view of they started it and he finished it.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 28, 2017, 11:00:51 AM
Stokes is going to need all this albeit rumours at the moment basically anything he can use as defending himself
Iím not a lawyer but the bottle if there is one could be crucial
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on September 28, 2017, 11:07:19 AM
According to rumours on Twitter, and I enhance the word rumours, Stokes has given his side of the story.

Apparently the 2 guys threatening, taunting and abusing 2 gay men (I know being gay has nothing to do with this, just simply going on the Twitter rumours). Stokes was incensed by the abuse the 2 men were giving and preceded to raise a bottle to potentially attempt to attack the 2 men and potentially Stokes himself.

Stokes took matters into his own hands as seen in the video. He has the view of they started it and he finished it.

Please don't trust anything that comes from Piers Morgan as it's primary source.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Smmatle1 on September 28, 2017, 11:07:47 AM
Of course it's been edited. It's the Sun
Would love them to be as sensationalistic with their own misdemeanours!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on September 28, 2017, 11:09:28 AM
Forgetting Stokes MMA debut for a moment, are there genuinely people out there that would have taken Dawson over Crane? Rashid I don't agree with t but can sort of understand a case could be made. Possibly the same for Leach, though a suspect action and maybe more so a bad Lions tour seems to have ruled him out.

Crane hasn't done much in CC but I took it as read that he'd be on the plane when they have had him involved in everything and he tore it up in Oz last winter.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 28, 2017, 11:09:58 AM
The search for the two gay guys stokes said he defended is on
Never has the gay population of Bristol been so important
 :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on September 28, 2017, 11:17:01 AM
According to rumours on Twitter, and I enhance the word rumours, Stokes has given his side of the story.

Apparently the 2 guys threatening, taunting and abusing 2 gay men (I know being gay has nothing to do with this, just simply going on the Twitter rumours). Stokes was incensed by the abuse the 2 men were giving and preceded to raise a bottle to potentially attempt to attack the 2 men and potentially Stokes himself.

Stokes took matters into his own hands as seen in the video. He has the view of they started it and he finished it.

So which one will be outed, Ball or Hales?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on September 28, 2017, 11:32:05 AM
Forgetting Stokes MMA debut for a moment, are there genuinely people out there that would have taken Dawson over Crane? Rashid I don't agree with t but can sort of understand a case could be made. Possibly the same for Leach, though a suspect action and maybe more so a bad Lions tour seems to have ruled him out.

Crane hasn't done much in CC but I took it as read that he'd be on the plane when they have had him involved in everything and he tore it up in Oz last winter.

Crane has been selected as the second spinner in conditions where it is likely to rag.  As such - given that we're basically talking about one game - he is not a bad call as he will benefit from the experienec of carrying drinks and being around the squad.

If Ali were not fit...its tricky.  Rashid is no more a first spinner in Australian conditions, and I suspect that Leach's action remains impure on occasion.  So, its a case of call in a like for like - Patel or Dawson - or go for the best young English spinner in Dom Bess (who would have been ruled out originally because two offies is a combination lacking balance)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on September 28, 2017, 12:02:28 PM
Typical caveman itching for a blue.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 12:05:22 PM
Stokes is going to need all this albeit rumours at the moment basically anything he can use as defending himself
Iím not a lawyer but the bottle if there is one could be crucial

Bottle is there for anyone to see in the videos... Even Wenger couldn't say " I didn't see it" on this occasion.. :o
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 28, 2017, 12:46:04 PM
Iím sure thereís a huge number of fans hoping Stokes is telling the truth about defending a couple of other guys,the video looks real bad

He will need all mitigating evidence I would think in his favoursocial
Sports stars fall from grace this is real life, the comparison with Botham is not lost on me- only back in the day there was no video or social media




Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 28, 2017, 12:57:31 PM
If Stokes had disarmed the tool with the bottle and performed a citizen's arrest,then fair enough. Going by what I've seen,he has taken the law into his own hands,surely it's as simple as that? Surely he faces the sack at the very least?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: jamielsn15 on September 28, 2017, 01:00:36 PM
I think regardless of any police action he's got an ECB ban coming. Justification for which would simply be 'why the hell were you there?'

Michael Vauaghan saying yesterday on TMS he'd be amazed if he were fit for the first test, if he's actually on the plane.

Strauss must be absolutely furious and I don't blame him at all
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 01:04:33 PM
Iím sure thereís a huge number of fans hoping Stokes is telling the truth about defending a couple of other guys,the video looks real bad

He will need all mitigating evidence I would think in his favoursocial
Sports stars fall from grace this is real life, the comparison with Botham is not lost on me- only back in the day there was no video or social media

You are right this is REAL life and Stokes is just a normal human being. He has obviously snapped whilst under the influence of alcohol to someone trying to BOTTLE someone...

On a weekend this type of thing happens across many towns and cities in the country to the extent where some people are seriously hurt..

Yet I don't see the majority of the public hi lighting and condemning these  people, however when one person who happens to be good at cricket does something similar, some people get all hysterical and start getting on their high horse..

Ben Stokes is human with the same faults as many and before you mention "role models" and "money they earn" you should perhaps look at politicians, senior policeman, bankers, lawyers etc etc who have done A LOT worse than what Stokes has done yet still keep their jobs and avoid prosecution... :o
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 28, 2017, 01:07:24 PM
There's no curfew under bayliss for the players -or at least there has not been up to now-

I too think he will get banned but if there is mitigation stuff for Stokes(defending other people/a bottle against him) it may not be the sack

Strauss won't shy away from a tough decision- he is sure in an awkward position thou
Stokes needs to be telling the truth about what happened I reckon to get off with a ban

The two gay guys he says he was defending are absolutely crucial they come forward surely?

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 28, 2017, 01:10:59 PM
When we say Sack Ben Stokes, what does that mean? He'd never be able to play for england again? or his current central contract is torn up and he would have to earn another one?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 01:11:19 PM
If Stokes had disarmed the tool with the bottle and performed a citizen's arrest,then fair enough. Going by what I've seen,he has taken the law into his own hands,surely it's as simple as that? Surely he faces the sack at the very least?

Jeez... That happens everyday doesn't it.. People go out and make a citizens arrest after being attacked with a bottle...

Seriously what a stupid comment to make Golders . Are you Australian or related to the man attacked???
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: DorsetDan on September 28, 2017, 01:14:06 PM
Selective video editing or not, I don't care if it's a granny or a sports star or what provocation/ back story there is you can't be behaving like that and not expect some consequences. He's not the devil but it wasn't bright. Let's be honest, if it was bad enough to overshadow Hales (?) kicking someone in the head when they were down then it a pretty bad reaction to whatever happened
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 28, 2017, 01:18:44 PM
When we say Sack Ben Stokes, what does that mean? He'd never be able to play for england again? or his current central contract is torn up and he would have to earn another one?

I can't remember the last time there was an incident like this....so at a guess he would be not selected the same as kevin Pietersen was....
Originally I thought he would be sacked myself but there seems some evidence it's not all one way.

Another guess is your conduct with the Ecb has a clause about what is not acceptable representing England.

Stokes needs to be telling the truth I think...and there is a bottle in the video for those that missed it(me)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Dazz on September 28, 2017, 01:18:52 PM
Why is Alex Hales getting absolutely no attention in all of this!! Kicking someone in the head numerous times while they're laying on the floor then running away, he should hope that the police don't get hold of the footage because he could be in a bit of bother himself!! The coward
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 01:21:17 PM
When we say Sack Ben Stokes, what does that mean? He'd never be able to play for england again? or his current central contract is torn up and he would have to earn another one?

Think people mean his central contract would be terminated.. Many a cricketer has been involved in a fight and kept his job and I would hope Stokes would be no different.. Strip him of his vice captaincy and then ask him to do some more community work (although Stokes does a lot for his old club already) .

Nobody benefits from him not playing for England again  other than Durham, Big Bash, IPL etc etc.. So I hope Strauss doesn't set English cricket back 5 years and ban him for next 2years...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on September 28, 2017, 01:22:26 PM
ECB Central Contract Allocation for 2017/18 is being announced on Monday as well  :( :(
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on September 28, 2017, 01:29:03 PM
Obviously the ecb are far more likely to set back the acceptable standard for behaviour of a contracted player by more than 5 years by offering up some token slap on the wrist, rather than rule out a required player for an important series. Priorities....
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 28, 2017, 01:36:31 PM
Nobody benefits from him not playing for England again  other than Durham, Big Bash, IPL etc etc.. So I hope Strauss doesn't set English cricket back 5 years and ban him for next 2years...

Can Durham afford his salary?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 01:36:46 PM
Obviously the ecb are far more likely to set back the acceptable standard for behaviour of a contracted player by more than 5 years by offering up some token slap on the wrist, rather than rule out a required player for an important series. Priorities....

Ha!! You must be Australian.. He will lose the vice captaincy and the chance to one day captain his country.. He will possibly get a police caution, plus he will have to explain to his kids his actions and also take a lot of future abuse from cricketers and the general public...

Think that is sufficient punishment considering this sort of thing happens everyday in the UK and many people never even get a police caution for doing a lot worse..

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 01:39:48 PM
Can Durham afford his salary?

Lol.. This might sound strange but if England banned him I believe he would make his money playing the T20 tournaments and still play for Durham (for lesser wages than at Surrey etc) because they gave him a start in cricket.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 28, 2017, 01:45:47 PM
Jeez... That happens everyday doesn't it.. People go out and make a citizens arrest after being attacked with a bottle...

Seriously what a stupid comment to make Golders . Are you Australian or related to the man attacked???

No I'm a pommie! Maybe I was being a bit OTT, and I'm no expert on these matters- nor do I claim to be- what shocked me was the extreme nature of Stokes' reaction- let's not forget,people have been killed by a single punch.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on September 28, 2017, 01:48:24 PM
I can see why a royal flag waver and a convict might disagree on what "sufficient" punishment might be. I still think the guy is a savage and should be treated as such.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 28, 2017, 01:50:50 PM
Lol.. This might sound strange but if England banned him I believe he would make his money playing the T20 tournaments and still play for Durham (for lesser wages than at Surrey etc) because they gave him a start in cricket.

Probably right. England wont sack him as they know he will go and play t20 cricket and earn more and why would he come back? Although wouldnt the ECB need to provide a NOC to play abroad?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 28, 2017, 01:52:22 PM
Back to the cricket....good to see Vince grafting away for for twenty odd(touch wood)- he is batting at 4 though!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 28, 2017, 01:54:40 PM
Forgetting Stokes MMA debut for a moment, are there genuinely people out there that would have taken Dawson over Crane? Rashid I don't agree with t but can sort of understand a case could be made. Possibly the same for Leach, though a suspect action and maybe more so a bad Lions tour seems to have ruled him out.

Crane hasn't done much in CC but I took it as read that he'd be on the plane when they have had him involved in everything and he tore it up in Oz last winter.

Crane made a case for himself to be included last time he was in OZ he showed he could get the type of bounce which gets wickets and keep an end quiet while the seamers are rotated at the other end.
He's been selected as the second spinner but as only 2 test grounds are likely to spin he probably won't play unless Moeens injured.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 28, 2017, 02:05:37 PM
On the Stokes matter, many saying why shouldnt he be treated like anyone else just because he's famous?

Noone cried thia much when Wayne Rooney pleaded guilty to being caught drink driving. Think of all the repercussions that could happen had he crashed and seriously injured someone.

I for one have been in the middle of a couple of punch ups whildt very intoxicated. Nothing came of it and police were there. All this depends on is the 'victims' injuries. If theres any speculation that Stokes/Hales have caused GBH. They obviouslt wont get away from it, probably ever. At the moment all it is is ABH which is basically giving someone a bruise. Which im sure we all did giving friends birthday beats at school!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on September 28, 2017, 02:07:39 PM
Back to the cricket....good to see Vince grafting away for for twenty odd(touch wood)- he is batting at 4 though!

Yep Strauss day just gets better and better as it looks like Middlesex are going to go down
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 02:07:50 PM
Back to the cricket....good to see Vince grafting away for for twenty odd(touch wood)- he is batting at 4 though!

Indeed back to the cricket.. Wonder why Root is reluctant to bat at 3?? At 4 he is usually in within 15 overs anyhow.. Lol..

If Root goes to 3 could Johnny go to 4, stokes at 5 then  Malan/Vince at 6??
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: RhysH on September 28, 2017, 02:12:45 PM
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/lBRwVTaLQV_Hbx6By5ncvA.jpg)
How ironic  :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 02:17:56 PM
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/lBRwVTaLQV_Hbx6By5ncvA.jpg)
How ironic  :D

Didn't that article say he would only thump someone if that person attacked someone with a bottle??  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 28, 2017, 02:18:10 PM
Maybe he meant when sober.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on September 28, 2017, 02:19:21 PM
maybe he meant when on the field

lots of judgement without the facts on here
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on September 28, 2017, 02:20:56 PM
Stokes and Hales suspended for England selection 'until further notice'
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on September 28, 2017, 02:24:11 PM
"Further notice" - read Ashes.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 02:26:39 PM
Maybe he meant when sober.

Lol... That's good...  :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 28, 2017, 02:26:48 PM
maybe he meant when on the field

lots of judgement without the facts on here

It's big news,people are bound to share their thoughts on a public forum.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on September 28, 2017, 02:30:12 PM
It's big news,people are bound to share their thoughts on a public forum.

Fair enough but there are views and judgements

I'm very reluctant to pass judgement having been through a similar thing in my youth and thank god I am a nobody otherwise may have been attacked on places like this without the full story

doesn't look good but the police need to do their thing and find out the facts.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 02:30:42 PM
Stokes and Hales suspended for England selection 'until further notice'

Stokes injured anyhow but think Hales could be in trouble yet as he can clearly be seen kicking someone in the head who is on the ground...
There is no nice side to a brawl but personally don't think its right to kick people when they on floor.
Even MMA don't do that...  :o
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 28, 2017, 02:34:41 PM
Stokes injured anyhow but think Hales could be in trouble yet as he can clearly be seen kicking someone in the head who is on the ground...
There is no nice side to a brawl but personally don't think its right to kick people when they on floor.
Even MMA don't do that...  :o

In UFC they sit on them and punch them in the head repeatedly... maybe hales was confused and thought it was ok. we all do stupid things whilst drunk. Don't think there's significant damage done though so lucky for both really.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 28, 2017, 02:42:01 PM
https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/483532 (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/483532) not considered for selection until further notice
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 28, 2017, 02:43:22 PM
https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/483532 (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/483532) not considered for selection until further notice

As below  ;)

Stokes and Hales suspended for England selection 'until further notice'
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on September 28, 2017, 02:45:11 PM
There goes the innocent till proven guilty

But to be fair right thing to suspend pending an investigation but all this talk of disciplinary they must have more facts than have been released to public.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 28, 2017, 02:48:28 PM
In UFC they sit on them and punch them in the head repeatedly... maybe hales was confused and thought it was ok. we all do stupid things whilst drunk. Don't think there's significant damage done though so lucky for both really.

That was my point.. Sitting on them and punching is acceptable in sport so Stokes is ok ( ;)) but Hales was IMO more out of order...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 28, 2017, 02:49:28 PM
I think that's normal procedure to be honest. But wouldn't be surprised if they do have more information about it. Jimmy and Jake Ball were out that night too as pictures suggest. Maybe they know something?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 28, 2017, 02:50:48 PM
As below  ;)

Sorry hadnt seen that :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on September 28, 2017, 02:51:34 PM
that's what I mean

you would think they would say "suspended pending an investigation" that statement sounds like they have made up their minds already

oh well full IPL Big Bash for stokes next year then.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 28, 2017, 03:00:11 PM
see i read it differently - I read it as suspended until a police charge (if any is issued). ECB can't be seen not suspending players if they get arrested, they've done just that. if they don't get charged the ECB will still be expected to punish Stokes and Hales. and i'd expect either a very hefty fine or even exclusion from selection for some time.

In laymans terms. either 6 month suspension or a couple months fine and a couple of games banned? I honestly and clearly haven't got a clue. Hope it's the latter though
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 28, 2017, 03:03:36 PM
High profile players being in a nightclub at 2.30am in the middle of a series knowing there's a chance someone is liable to have a go is clearly foolish.
But  Stokes comes over as a decent guy not one to provokes fights  yes he  will wind up the opposition and thump a locker
But he's also one who gave £500.00 to an injured ameture player.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on September 28, 2017, 03:04:04 PM
Fair enough I can see how you would see that

When it says disciplinary procedures have been opened that worries me as surely wait to see what result of police investigation is then decide what action to take

Hopefully they are doing what you say and will make a decision on severity or ban or fine after police decide if they have enough grounds to charge.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 28, 2017, 03:06:46 PM
Agreed @Seniorplayer. He's a see you next tuesday. but the kind that you'd want as a friend. Funny i've heard that somewhere before  :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 28, 2017, 03:21:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/BxIz4Cd.png)

Little preview of the winter
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mattdawson on September 28, 2017, 03:27:23 PM
I cant see anyway Stokes can go to the Ashes after that statement. If KP got sacked for not looking interested, then flooring 3 people isn't going to wash?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 28, 2017, 03:33:13 PM
Fair enough I can see how you would see that

When it says disciplinary procedures have been opened that worries me as surely wait to see what result of police investigation is then decide what action to take

Hopefully they are doing what you say and will make a decision on severity or ban or fine after police decide if they have enough grounds to charge.

Looks like procedure is being followed  which ECB need to be seen doing they can't do much else  now  it's down to  invesigations which will as you say decide on what action to take if any at all.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: jamielsn15 on September 28, 2017, 03:34:53 PM
In any walk of life suspending someone on full pay pending an investigation is common. Its essentially saying you're innocent until proven guilty,  whilst acknowledging there is an issue that is deemed serious enough to suspend someone from their job.

He's brought his employer into disrepute. I worked with a guy who got sacked after being convicted of drink driving. No jail term, but it was in the local rag,  named his employer and they sacked him.

The main issue i guess is not that he defended himself from a guy with a bottle, its that he continued punching him when he was down and unarmed and then again when he got up. Hales, if he did put the boot in, has a problem as well.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Neon Cricket on September 28, 2017, 03:43:40 PM
The main issue i guess is not that he defended himself from a guy with a bottle, its that he continued punching him when he was down and unarmed and then again when he got up. Hales, if he did put the boot in, has a problem as well.

This for me - had he stopped when the guy hit the ground the first time then maybe, just maybe, he'd have got a ticking off and a slap on the wrist. It's what ensued afterwards is the issue I should think - ECB have made the right move, it's just a case of seeing where the police take things now

Either way it's (No Swearing Please) our plans for a good winter!!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 28, 2017, 03:55:45 PM
I haven't  checked this thread for a day and it jumped ahead by 8 pages.
Did I miss something ?  ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on September 28, 2017, 03:57:17 PM
Pretty hard in the middle of a fight when someone has had a weapon to just stop when they are on ground

In heat of a fight extremely hard to stop until they can't fight back, when adrenaline in full flow brains don't come into it
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 28, 2017, 03:57:55 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/BxIz4Cd.png)

Little preview of the winter

Lol even Bayliss said he likes to snick off. We need a consistent number 3,but not a number 3 that consistently snicks off!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on September 28, 2017, 04:01:19 PM
I haven't  checked this thread for a day and it jumped ahead by 8 pages.
Did I miss something ?  ;)

Yeah, Stokes got drunk and thought he was in the MMA octogon. :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: jamielsn15 on September 28, 2017, 04:02:31 PM
Pretty hard in the middle of a fight when someone has had a weapon to just stop when they are on ground

In heat of a fight extremely hard to stop until they can't fight back, when adrenaline in full flow brains don't come into it

I completely get that and agree. Reasonable force is a grey area and its up to the police to determine that.

But the moment i start to feel for him i keep coming back to what the hell were you doing there?!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: smilley792 on September 28, 2017, 04:03:04 PM
Pretty hard in the middle of a fight when someone has had a weapon to just stop when they are on ground

In heat of a fight extremely hard to stop until they can't fight back, when adrenaline in full flow brains don't come into it

Add alcohol into the mix and well...... Easy to not know when to stop.




So had stokes and Co not been there and the headline read "gay men hospitalised with life changing injuries on unprovoked attack"
Would most people be happy with that headline? Personally I would not be.

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on September 28, 2017, 04:04:32 PM
Seems to be a few on here would be happier with that headline

True put beer into the mix makes it even harder

Until we know the full details of why it started and went so far I for one won't praise or scold
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 28, 2017, 04:12:55 PM
People need to think about what theyd do ...and what they wouldn't do in these type  of situations.  Figure it out when sober / in a normal setting, then hopefully your instinct in the actual situation follows the same path .
I for one have seen a lot of stuff like this , but know there are other ways to defuse a situation. Ive thought about the consequences so much that it actually quite inhibits my choices in a such a situation. So, i know i would be too scared of killing or  maiming someone , bottom line . So if the situation is over /has been diffused , why continue it to only risk harm to all involved ?
 . Ever thought about putting him in a head lock after punching him ? Ever thought about not punching him while he's backing off ( and hence no threat ) ? Ever thought if i hit this guy well enough and king hit him , he could crack his skull and die ? Ever thought kicking a guy in the head  who is on the ground is an unnecessary dog act ? Ever thought i shouldnt be out at this shitehole at 2.30am because it is asking for trouble?  I could go on and on .
I reckon the bottle bloke acted like scum. I reckon Hales acted like scum. I reckon Stokes acted like scum .
They are all scum ....all people acting so violently ( beyond the scope of self defence) should face jail time . Simple .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Big Mac on September 28, 2017, 04:18:35 PM
Add alcohol into the mix and well...... Easy to not know when to stop.




So had stokes and Co not been there and the headline read "gay men hospitalised with life changing injuries on unprovoked attack"
Would most people be happy with that headline? Personally I would not be.

If we're going to start making up imaginary headlines for scenarios that didn't happen then I'd have much preferred something along the lines of "England Star Stokes Embers of Tolerance" accompanied by a nice story about how he bought everyone a drink and sat them down to discuss why homophobia and violence are very, very naughty.

But seeing as none of that is what happens why don't we focus on what actually did happen? A couple of England players got into a drunken brawl in the middle of an international series that put someone in the hospital, the hammer needs to come down on them.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on September 28, 2017, 04:27:56 PM
People need to think about what theyd do ...and what they wouldn't do in these type  of situations.  Figure it out when sober / in a normal setting, then hopefully your instinct in the actual situation follows the same path .
I for one have seen a lot of stuff like this , but know there are other ways to defuse a situation. Ive thought about the consequences so much that it actually quite inhibits my choices in a such a situation. So, i know i would be too scared of killing or  maiming someone , bottom line . So if the situation is over /has been diffused , why continue it to only risk harm to all involved ?
 . Ever thought about putting him in a head lock after punching him ? Ever thought about not punching him while he's backing off ( and hence no threat ) ? Ever thought if i hit this guy well enough and king hit him , he could crack his skull and die ? Ever thought kicking a guy in the head  who is on the ground is an unnecessary dog act ? Ever thought i shouldnt be out at this shitehole at 2.30am because it is asking for trouble?  I could go on and on .
I reckon the bottle bloke acted like scum. I reckon Hales acted like scum. I reckon Stokes acted like scum .
They are all scum ....all people acting so violently ( beyond the scope of self defence) should face jail time . Simple .

Thank god you were not the magistrate when I was in court for section 47 when charge after defending myself from 2 blokes with pool cues

I'd be in prison for not agreeing to get a kicking
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 28, 2017, 04:53:42 PM
Thank god you were not the magistrate when I was in court for section 47 when charge after defending myself from 2 blokes with pool cues

I'd be in prison for not agreeing to get a kicking


Defend yourself while under threat , don't when not . If defending yourself might risk maiming or killing someone perhaps try a plan b if possible ie in a lot if situations there is the choice of just standing there and watching the guy back off , or there is a choice of running away . Ive come to the conclusion that doing the minimal to get  out alive ( and everyone else for that matter) is much better that 'finishing what someone else starts' / 'giving someone what they deserve' etc . My ego isn't so infantile anymore that i need to prove that i can floor someone , and my sense of justice isnt so warped as to punish someone physically beyond pure self defence .
When watching that video i noticed thst at no time was any single person backed into a corner . Every single person in that situation (other when that one guy was on the ground having his noggin rearranged ) had other options at their disposal other than the ones they chose to act upon .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 28, 2017, 05:00:53 PM
Thank god you were not the magistrate when I was in court for section 47 when charge after defending myself from 2 blokes with pool cues

I'd be in prison for not agreeing to get a kicking



Ive also been a similar position many moons ago . It was dismissed because i could prove i only did the bare minimum to protect myself .
If you did the same then you should have been treated the same way i was  . If you chased after guys once their weapons (cues , bottles, whatever the case may be) were no longer available to them , and once they had stopped attacking you (and were actually backing off) then it would be a different case altogether .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 28, 2017, 05:09:16 PM
The last thing i hope i say on this ....
Too many people seem to be quick to bring up alcohol . Fair enough if its to understand how the situation got so out of hand or why so many poor decisions were made . But some people seem to bring up alcohol as if its some kind of mitigating circumstance that allows for a more forgiving assessment of the situation.  Well , (No Swearing Please) to that ! You choose to drink , you choose the consequences and  influence it has on your actions and capacity to make intelligent decisions .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: brokenbat on September 28, 2017, 05:26:44 PM
why not just let the courts decide his punishment and let his jail time (if any) determine how long he's out of the game... simple.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on September 28, 2017, 05:30:49 PM
Well last post for me

Fair play if you can keep that level of control it's rare very rare

Personally I broke one of their jaws with a chair and an arm when they tried to swing at me

I stopped when they were both on the floor but if they had got up I would have put both down again for fear of them picking up another weapon

I got off with suspended and probation as was self defence but excessive force which I accept and was a learning experience but if people have weapons I make sure they are not going to use them again as if they are backing up really easy to grab another weapon

I was very lucky and do not take these things lightly and am not bragging in slightest as was an extremely scary time being in court facing 5 years in winson green , if not for witnesses and pub cctv I could have been sent down

To be fair since then I try to not drink too much and put myself in those situations as I know I won't back down so a work around in a way

But everything is easy to judge if you were not there
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 28, 2017, 05:32:12 PM
In light of the ecb squad selections and recent events , my updated xl for eng at brisbane :
Cook
Stoneman
Root
Bairstow
Malan
Vince
Ali
Woakes
Foakes
Broad
Anderson

Part timers will have to be called upon to do more bowling , batting is a bit meh in parts , but at least the batting order is long .

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 28, 2017, 05:40:28 PM
In light of the ecb squad selections and recent events , my updated xl for eng at brisbane :
Cook
Stoneman
Root
Bairstow
Malan
Vince
Ali
Woakes
Foakes
Broad
Anderson

Part timers will have to be called upon to do more bowling , batting is a bit meh in parts , but at least the batting order is long .

Id be fuming if i was foakes
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on September 28, 2017, 05:41:25 PM
Does leave a hole in the side

but means Ali at 7 woakes 8 for me as part timers could go with flat kook ball and good aus pitches

Need 5 genuine bowlers for me then light relief with root and vince

I'd love plunkett to replace stokes and bat 9 extra pace and can bat
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 28, 2017, 06:03:32 PM
Well last post for me

Fair play if you can keep that level of control it's rare very rare

Personally I broke one of their jaws with a chair and an arm when they tried to swing at me

I stopped when they were both on the floor but if they had got up I would have put both down again for fear of them picking up another weapon

I got off with suspended and probation as was self defence but excessive force which I accept and was a learning experience but if people have weapons I make sure they are not going to use them again as if they are backing up really easy to grab another weapon

I was very lucky and do not take these things lightly and am not bragging in slightest as was an extremely scary time being in court facing 5 years in winson green , if not for witnesses and pub cctv I could have been sent down

To be fair since then I try to not drink too much and put myself in those situations as I know I won't back down so a work around in a way

But everything is easy to judge if you were not there



I could comment so much on this but....
@roco , your reply/thoughts are measured , balanced and very, very candid.  Thats appreciated, respected and its a good trait to have . You admit you could have done some things a bit differently and that the court conclusions were fair enough. You also admit court was scary and that is admirable . You have reevaluated your behaviour/thoughts since , and that introspection helps to improve our capacity to think smart /quickly if ever in a similar situation.
Cudos to you bro !
Perhaps when you say my attitude /level of control is very rare , well maybe it is ....but ihave a feeling its about as common as any other pattern of response .
Lastly,  i think maybe you are being too harsh on yourself and that perhaps , if you were in a similar situation today , you could do the bare minimum while still looking  out for yourself  and your mates . :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: DorsetDan on September 28, 2017, 06:04:22 PM
The tabloids are really after Stokes digging up whatever dirt they can find
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 28, 2017, 06:05:52 PM
Id be fuming if i was foakes



Never seen him bat ( heard great things though)...maybe after an innings or two id have faith to swap with woakes.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 28, 2017, 06:15:46 PM
On a slightly lighter note, James Vince 'surprised' to get into the touring squad, well by my reckoning he starts and bats 3 with Malan in the middle order. That's a bit more than a surprise  its downright amazement.  :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 28, 2017, 06:20:44 PM
If your team goes to plan and he bats well malan and vince should be worried. Put it that way.

Never seen him bat ( heard great things though)...maybe after an innings or two id have faith to swap with woakes.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 28, 2017, 06:24:03 PM
In the lead up to every ashes i have to remind myself that sooo many unpredictable things can happen in the leadup/course of the series.... whether it be punching opposition players , brawling on the street , rolling your anle on a cricket ball , flying a plane over a tour match etc etc . All makes it impossible to know 100% who will win , regardless of who looks better on paper .
Only six weeks. .....
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 28, 2017, 06:27:07 PM
@Woodyspin .... can we have foakes then ? We'll swap you for nevill , wade , and any spinner ( other than lyon ) of your choice .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 28, 2017, 06:28:17 PM
@Woodyspin .... can we have foakes then ? We'll swap you for nevill , wade , and any spinner ( other than lyon ) of your choice .

1. No 2. definitely not and 3. if Agar can bat from Jimmy then sure.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 28, 2017, 06:33:08 PM
1. No 2. definitely not and 3. if Agar can bat from Jimmy then sure.



Not sure if you mean we can just swap foakes for agar .... but,  im  sorry you have to take the others too . Please , please. ...just get wade out of the country so oz cant select him anymore !
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 28, 2017, 06:43:09 PM


Not sure if you mean we can just swap foakes for agar .... but,  im  sorry you have to take the others too . Please , please. ...just get wade out of the country so oz cant select him anymore !

If i was a convict id rather be doing the job myself. What have you got to be worried about? Starcs 90mph just stand a few yards back and wear 3 inners. Apart from hazlewood the rest who ive completely forgotten are average
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 28, 2017, 07:02:20 PM
If i was a convict id rather be doing the job myself. What have you got to be worried about? Starcs 90mph just stand a few yards back and wear 3 inners. Apart from hazlewood the rest who ive completely forgotten are average


Wade might not have a bad series with the gloves ( but he might...you just never know when he's going to return to 'iron gloves' form ) . I'm more worried about his batting....he's so out of form its scary .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on September 28, 2017, 08:34:40 PM
@Woodyspin .... can we have foakes then ? We'll swap you for nevill , wade , and any spinner ( other than lyon ) of your choice .

What happened to SOK? Is he lost in the outback?

Seemed to drop off the radar alarmingly quickly.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 28, 2017, 08:41:39 PM
What happened to SOK? Is he lost in the outback?

Seemed to drop off the radar alarmingly quickly.


he's still are very good bowler. got  a tad inconsistent towards the end of indian series , then got suspended for getting in trouble while on the drink. didnt play for months , then got called up for 2nd bangersandmash test ....bowled poorly , but had no game time under his belt and was barely off the plane and into a test match . so , he's  still there ot thereabouts.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 28, 2017, 08:45:07 PM
Jim maxwell ....legendary Aussie commentator says we are the worst batting line up to leave these shores in living memory and we, the poms, are going to lose 5-0

Aggers says its one of the weakest Ashes sides he can remember...

Vic Marks says the selection policy has reverted to a pick your mates team like you would do in a village green.

It's the Labour Party conference I'm just waiting for Jeremy Corbin to give his opinion and we have a full house.

Jeez....thank god Chris Woakes is fit is all I've got to say  :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: csnew on September 28, 2017, 09:01:44 PM

Wade might not have a bad series with the gloves ( but he might...you just never know when he's going to return to 'iron gloves' form ) . I'm more worried about his batting....he's so out of form its scary .

More scary that wadeís never been in form yet continues to be selected
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: csnew on September 28, 2017, 09:26:20 PM
Oh dear mr stokes mocking a disabled

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4929800/Shocking-footage-shows-Ben-Stokes-foul-mouthed-outburst.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4929800/Shocking-footage-shows-Ben-Stokes-foul-mouthed-outburst.html)

Heís having a nightmare
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on September 29, 2017, 12:16:37 AM
Oh dear mr stokes mocking a disabled

[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4929800/Shocking-footage-shows-Ben-Stokes-foul-mouthed-outburst.html[/url] ([url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4929800/Shocking-footage-shows-Ben-Stokes-foul-mouthed-outburst.html[/url])

Heís having a nightmare


That is disappointing.

Stokes' trajectory is eerily similar to Annakin Skywalker's after his marriage to Padme, he just turned evil. Is Andrew Strauss the Obi Wan of this saga? Will he clip Stokes below the knees and leave him near the firey volcano. :D :D :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 29, 2017, 01:57:58 AM
How's it disappointing - The video of Harvey went viral the minute it happened. not only is it funny it's a perfect attitude to anyone who has no respect for you, give them none back. The video of Stokes isn't mockery but purely a couple of lads enjoying the fact the C word come out of a 15 year old's mouth live on TV.

I point you to Louis Smith who was banned after mocking Islam by laughing and pretending to prey shouting 'Allahu Akbar'! This was his second breach in 5 months and was banned for 2 months from Gymnastics.

In all honesty Stokes' is playground stuff in comparison.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on September 29, 2017, 02:41:08 AM
How's it disappointing

Stokes is still caught up in that "lad" behavior/culture. He is vice-captain of the England cricket team. That means something. I was in disbelief when I saw the fight video but this "Harvey" nonsense explains something about him and why he'd be caught in jam outside a small nightclub in a compromising situation. It hasn't sunk into his testosterone addled brain that he is representing England. And he has fans outside of England too!

Unfortunately, if Cricket is going to grow in new markets, players need to rise up to a higher level of professionalism. On the field and off the field. He could've killed those guys, they were no match for his physicality. He is a "bloody" idiot! And, he need serious psychiatric help. I hope Strauss kicks him off the team!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: enlightened on September 29, 2017, 05:53:07 AM
Stokes showing that he isn't fit to represent his country I'm afraid. Shame - a talented cricketer but seems to be a bit of a knob.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 29, 2017, 06:10:29 AM
The Harvey video is just people jumping on the bandwagon.
When that happened the office I worked in people made several jokes about it, my cricket team did (the odd meme about it will still pop up in the group chat every now and again). The daily mail wouldnít have published this in isolation and are just doing the usual gutter journalism to kick someone when they are down. We all knew stokes had that liability side in him, heís been a stupid boy of late, but this is just unnecessary
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on September 29, 2017, 06:34:16 AM
Grab the pitch forks and torches time for snowflake justice

Someone said a naughty word so I need to be offended for everyone on the planet
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on September 29, 2017, 06:44:50 AM
Yep. Despite the heman rage, and mocking disabled kids. Clearly a "decent bloke" who should be cut some slack.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on September 29, 2017, 06:57:48 AM
Looks like Australia has taken a huge jump to the left (and to the moral high ground) since this happened, at least it means their bizarre opposition to same-sex marrage should be over.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on September 29, 2017, 07:10:17 AM
What opposition? Australians for marriage equality sits around 70% and has for a long time. The opposition sits with the far right faction of the current liberal government and our P.Ms unwillingness to upset his party by calling for a free parlimentary vote to legislate the change.

But anyway. Australian politics aside. This stokes is still a giant flog. No moral leap there.

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on September 29, 2017, 07:21:54 AM
What opposition? Australians for marriage equality sits around 70% and has for a long time. The opposition sits with the far right faction of the current liberal government and our P.Ms unwillingness to upset his party by calling for a free parlimentary vote to legislate the change.

But anyway. Australian politics aside. This stokes is still a giant flog. No moral leap there.

Polls are polls, but the last one I read said support had dropped to 57% and opposition jumped to 34%, in 2017 that's mindblowing to me.

Anyway, agree Stokes obviously has 'issues' but just think all the bandwagon jumping by our friends down under is a bit rich. I remember Mr Ponting had some very public incidents relating to booze and scrapping, but rather than being banned for life or publically flogged he was made captain just 2 years later!
Not saying Stokes is an angel or doesn't have to make some serious changes to his life, but there is a fair amount of hypocrisy and overreaction flying about the last few days. This for the SMH was a particular favourite.

"There was a feeling in Australian cricket circles on Thursday that there was no way the ECB could allow Stokes to play in this summer's Ashes, with some saying the board risked becoming a laughing stock if he toured. There is also a belief that an Australian player would have had his contract torn up had he behaved in such a way.

Also think it's a pretty sad reflection of society that when something like this happens peoples first thought is if they have a video somewhere they can flog to the red tops.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 29, 2017, 08:08:57 AM
Stokes is still caught up in that "lad" behavior/culture. He is vice-captain of the England cricket team. That means something. I was in disbelief when I saw the fight video but this "Harvey" nonsense explains something about him and why he'd be caught in jam outside a small nightclub in a compromising situation. It hasn't sunk into his testosterone addled brain that he is representing England. And he has fans outside of England too!

Unfortunately, if Cricket is going to grow in new markets, players need to rise up to a higher level of professionalism. On the field and off the field. He could've killed those guys, they were no match for his physicality. He is a "bloody" idiot! And, he need serious psychiatric help. I hope Strauss kicks him off the team!


I have just wasted 25 seconds of my life reading that drivel... I would suggest you go and take a good long look at yourself and then hopefully realise that there are far worse things than this happening in this country right now...

Once you have done this then please step away from your keyboard and go and do some voluntary work in the community where you can probably do some good rather than typing the utter uneducated drivel you have   typed here...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: DorsetDan on September 29, 2017, 08:25:43 AM
As interesting as a "lad" vs "snowflake" discussion is I think we can all agree Stoke's life would have been easier if none of this ever happened and therefore was a bad move. Onwards and upwards
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 29, 2017, 08:36:09 AM
Stokes is still caught up in that "lad" behavior/culture. He is vice-captain of the England cricket team. That means something. I was in disbelief when I saw the fight video but this "Harvey" nonsense explains something about him and why he'd be caught in jam outside a small nightclub in a compromising situation. It hasn't sunk into his testosterone addled brain that he is representing England. And he has fans outside of England too!

Unfortunately, if Cricket is going to grow in new markets, players need to rise up to a higher level of professionalism. On the field and off the field. He could've killed those guys, they were no match for his physicality. He is a "bloody" idiot! And, he need serious psychiatric help. I hope Strauss kicks him off the team!

You seem to forget the point im making here. I won't point it out to you. I'll give you until the asjes to figure it out for yourself.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Neon Cricket on September 29, 2017, 09:58:04 AM
Putting aside his ability and what he brings to the team on the field - do we believe he deserves the right to represent his country after what's happened?

For me, to represent England is about more than just ability. It's the highest privilege in cricket and quite frankly his behavior just isn't deserving of that honor at the present time (Note present time. I'm not saying forever, but I'm saying he has to re-earn that right).

Whether he re-earns that right before or after the Ashes is down to the ECB. I would however be surprised if it's before bearing in mind they fly out in a few weeks - which is a shame for all us fans as he's pure entertainment on the field!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mdg20 on September 29, 2017, 10:02:30 AM
Putting aside his ability and what he brings to the team on the field - do we believe he deserves the right to represent his country after what's happened?

For me, to represent England is about more than just ability. It's the highest privilege in cricket and quite frankly his behavior just isn't deserving of that honor at the present time (Note present time. I'm not saying forever, but I'm saying he has to re-earn that right).

Whether he re-earns that right before or after the Ashes is down to the ECB. I would however be surprised if it's before bearing in mind they fly out in a few weeks - which is a shame for all us fans as he's pure entertainment on the field!

He doesn't deserve to go, the ECB have done the right thing and what many other employees would do, suspended on full pay until police investigation/criminal proceedings/full ECB investigation is completed. As it stands he's brought the game and the ECB into disrepute(although the ECB manage it themselves all the time!) until that's proved otherwise he can't be picked.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 29, 2017, 11:03:31 AM
Putting aside his ability and what he brings to the team on the field - do we believe he deserves the right to represent his country after what's happened?

For me, to represent England is about more than just ability. It's the highest privilege in cricket and quite frankly his behavior just isn't deserving of that honor at the present time (Note present time. I'm not saying forever, but I'm saying he has to re-earn that right).

Whether he re-earns that right before or after the Ashes is down to the ECB. I would however be surprised if it's before bearing in mind they fly out in a few weeks - which is a shame for all us fans as he's pure entertainment on the field!

Based on your reasoning Ben... You must then believe politicians, policemen, social workers, priests, nuns, Muslim religious figures, bankers etc etc are ALL individuals that are honest, polite, non violent, uncorruptible, not sexual deviants etc etc...
Your entitled to your opinion but I would say look in the real world and realise that Stokes hasn't murdered anyone and people representing organizations bigger and socially more important than England cricket have done A LOT WORSE....
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 29, 2017, 11:06:08 AM
He doesn't deserve to go, the ECB have done the right thing and what many other employees would do, suspended on full pay until police investigation/criminal proceedings/full ECB investigation is completed. As it stands he's brought the game and the ECB into disrepute(although the ECB manage it themselves all the time!) until that's proved otherwise he can't be picked.

At last.. IMO spot on... Even the correct but subtle dig at the ECB... :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 29, 2017, 11:47:26 AM
When i started this thread i thought it would be good to start the selection debates nice and early , build up the anticipation etc etc . I could never have thought it would turn into ethical debates about drunken violence,  self defence , media predatory behaviour , the use of curse words on tv , the imitation or mocking of disabled kids , and the subsequent forum arguements that have ensued . Wow . This is now getting into strange territory.
One thing I'll say .... before we curse and abuse each other just try to remember that its not so easy to be as nuanced and comprehensive in our discussions on the forum....often we read someones view and think 'thats a bit (No Swearing Please)' , but if we were actually afforded the time to hear , one on one , the persons full opinion , in full context of their life outlook generally , we might not be disagreeing so much and have a fair amount of common ground with each other .
Just my two cents .....
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on September 29, 2017, 12:38:04 PM
I won't judge Stokes on his behaviour as i don't know all the facts and who provoked who! And I won't guess who started it.
Growing up in Slough that scene looks very familiar to me, both from viewing a scene like that whilst sitting across the street with mates eating a doner kebab and from actually being part of it.
Also the so called "mocking a disabled kid" was obviously an imitation which they found funny (and no mocking involved!). Having teenagers who have instagram, facebook and other social media stuff - most of the teenagers I met were talking about Harvey's words on TV. They were imitating it when conveying it to me although they didn't use the C word in front of me. But they all found it fantastically funny and none of them mock disabled kids! To me Stokes was doing the same. The press have jumped on the bandwagon and making it big - gutter press trying everything to get a story!

But saying the above, there are a few points I would make!
- Imitating Harvey, which is not mocking disabled kids as the press are trying say, is still something which shows a bit of an immature sense of humour! Teenagers may find it amusing but Stokes is not a teenager!
- I suspect the imitation was fueled by alcohol! He seemed pretty drunk and lets face it, we all spout total rubbish sometimes when we have had a skinful! Then we are reminded next day and feel like hiding!
- Most violence involves alcohol. The Ambulance documentary stated that 80% of injuries or call-outs they get are drink related! Alcohol is a mind-altering drug which gets rid of inhibitions, changes behavior and alters your perception of what is acceptable! 99% of humans act very differently when drinking excessively! So when people are saying he should have stopped 1 minute earlier please remember this!

Even with the above points, there are a couple of things I can state!
Stokes is NOT Vice Captain material!! If you look at Strauss, Cook, Root and most other cricketers who have Captained England, they have to be seen as an example by other cricketers. They are in a responsible position and need to act that way, both on and off the field! Therefore although we do not yet know the events leading up to the fight, and we can sometimes forgive excessive behavior caused through alcohol, we still need to ask whether Stokes should have been drinking himself into oblivion!
If he had of been sober or if he had of had 1 or 2 drinks, I suspect the evening would have been very different!
And if he is behaving like an 18 year old out on a lads night out on payday, then that isn't then kind of example an International cricketer should be showing!

I hope he loses his Vice-Captain status. And whatever the Police investigation shows, he needs to be punished for drinking excessively as this led to other events taking place! Punishment? Hit him where it hurts - in his wallet!     
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on September 29, 2017, 12:49:36 PM


I have just wasted 25 seconds of my life reading that drivel... I would suggest you go and take a good long look at yourself and then hopefully realise that there are far worse things than this happening in this country right now...

Once you have done this then please step away from your keyboard and go and do some voluntary work in the community where you can probably do some good rather than typing the utter uneducated drivel you have   typed here...

You can make derogatory comments about me all you want, it still doesn't change one fact: physical battery and excessive use of force is INDEFENSIBLE. For an England vice-captain, Stokes showed extremely poor judgement by getting drunk out of his wits, getting into a fight at 2 am with nobodies, and punching someone senseless. Comparing his situation to past actions by others is just condoning bad behavior and making excuses. 

Stokes needs psychiatric help and more importantly, he needs to grow the hell up!!!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on September 29, 2017, 12:51:48 PM
You seem to forget the point im making here. I won't point it out to you. I'll give you until the asjes to figure it out for yourself.

It doesn't matter. You are defending an indefensible position and there shouldn't be no two ways about it. Wrong is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 29, 2017, 12:55:21 PM
Stokes needs psychiatric help and more importantly, he needs to grow the hell up!!!

By claiming someone needs psychiatric help for punching someone inself defence whilst drunk is very ill educated.

No GP would waste their time with refering him for such nonsense.

Under what medical issue would you claim he needs psychiatric help for?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 29, 2017, 12:56:19 PM
It doesn't matter. You are defending an indefensible position and there shouldn't be no two ways about it. Wrong is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You're still misding the point. How can i defend something indefensible?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 29, 2017, 01:05:54 PM
Interesting comments from Nasser 'the beak' Hussain in the build up to today's odi. He was saying that if a court case is hanging over Stokes there is no way he can go to Aus- can you imagine the abuse he will get the minute he gets off the plane? If however Stokes is cleared completely he's good to go! We have been told the recipient of Stokes' (rather impressive I must admit!) right hook sustained 'facial injuries'- I feel a lot may depend on how severe these injuries are...
I think even the Aussie public will be disappointed if Stokes doesn't take part in the ashes- he is exactly the type of cricketer they like. Test match cricket will be the poor for it! Sad sad situation all round.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on September 29, 2017, 01:20:03 PM
You guys have a rich history of bringing your criminals to this fine country. Why should stokes be any different.  :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: jamielsn15 on September 29, 2017, 01:48:55 PM
Vaughan commenting today on TMS that stokes was out drinking until 3am during a test match this summer. Played the next day.  Perhaps the ECB will be taking numerous issues into account.

If this incident doesn't become his 'rock bottom' and make him learn his lesson, nothing will. It looks like his incidents have escalated over years.

I was once told that life isn't about not making mistakes, its about learning from them. No one can do that but him. 

He may get off lightly in terms of punishment from the police, but his history of going out and getting smashed may be more of an issue for his employer...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 29, 2017, 01:51:30 PM
Interesting comments from Nasser 'the beak' Hussain in the build up to today's odi. He was saying that if a court case is hanging over Stokes there is no way he can go to Aus- can you imagine the abuse he will get the minute he gets off the plane? If however Stokes is cleared completely he's good to go! We have been told the recipient of Stokes' (rather impressive I must admit!) right hook sustained 'facial injuries'- I feel a lot may depend on how severe these injuries are...
I think even the Aussie public will be disappointed if Stokes doesn't take part in the ashes- he is exactly the type of cricketer they like. Test match cricket will be the poor for it! Sad sad situation all round.

He hit the ground pretty hard, could have been so much worse
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on September 29, 2017, 01:52:42 PM
Vaughan commenting today on TMS that stokes was out drinking until 3am during a test match this summer. Played the next day.  Perhaps the ECB will be taking numerous issues into account.

Why is Vaughan saying that? What surprises me more is that Stokes is a fellow ISM stablemate, usually they are bullet proof
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 29, 2017, 01:56:09 PM
You can make derogatory comments about me all you want, it still doesn't change one fact: physical battery and excessive use of force is INDEFENSIBLE. For an England vice-captain, Stokes showed extremely poor judgement by getting drunk out of his wits, getting into a fight at 2 am with nobodies, and punching someone senseless. Comparing his situation to past actions by others is just condoning bad behavior and making excuses. 

Stokes needs psychiatric help and more importantly, he needs to grow the hell up!!!

FGS.... Please can you use facts!!! You don't know what condition he was in and what's more... Excessive use of  force is NECESSARY sometimes...
You really need to find the full facts out before you make an educated assessment of someone... :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Big Mac on September 29, 2017, 02:06:22 PM
FGS.... Please can you use facts!!! You don't know what condition he was in and what's more... Excessive use of  force is NECESSARY sometimes...
You really need to find the full facts out before you make an educated assessment of someone... :)

Excessive
ex¶ces|sive
[ɪkˈsɛsɪv, ɛkˈsɛsɪv]
ADJECTIVE
more than is necessary, normal, or desirable; immoderate:
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 29, 2017, 02:08:47 PM
Why is Vaughan saying that? What surprises me more is that Stokes is a fellow ISM stablemate, usually they are bullet proof

I think thereís no doubt Stokes is in the wrong, he may well get a ban and lose his central contract but it does seem a bit open season-the media are out to get him now.
As Iíve said before this is real life, our sports stars make mistakes same as we do-some of them maybe are not nice people either

I donít really see why Vaughan rent a quote says that.

Stokes has done wrong and will pay the price somehow....lots of people in the media are no angels making moral judgements

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Northern monkey on September 29, 2017, 02:10:54 PM
Just watched the footage

Hmmm
Stokes wasn't gonna just walk away from that, he was pretty determined to land a decent punch.
And to me, he doesn't look that drunk.

I think his image has been built up, and he was trying to live up to it.
The bloke who went down after Stokes clocked him, was lucky the back of his head didn't hit the ground.

Should never have been in the situation in the first place.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 29, 2017, 02:14:31 PM
Why is Vaughan saying that? What surprises me more is that Stokes is a fellow ISM stablemate, usually they are bullet proof

Could be Vaughan is saying by playing the next day Ben can handle being out till 3am better than most.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: jamielsn15 on September 29, 2017, 02:57:09 PM
I think Vaughan was saying this in acceptance that Stokes has an ongoing problem and is in trouble with the ECB. The context was that the players are teated as adults - no curfews, free to soend evenings as they please - and that perhaps that needs to be looked at.

I don't think its necessarily a media free for all. There's a clear pattern to Stokes' behaviour that is relevant to the current incident. It provides context. I've been critical of Vaughan' sensationalist commentary in the past but i didn't get that thisntime, it felt more sad than anything...

Onto the other point regarding what is reasonable or excessive force, take any sentence you type and add 'your Honour' to the end of it.  Just to see how it would sound in court. What we think doesn't matter, its entirely down to the police and CPS.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 29, 2017, 03:45:07 PM
Excessive
ex¶ces|sive
[ɪkˈsɛsɪv, ɛkˈsɛsɪv]
ADJECTIVE
more than is necessary, normal, or desirable; immoderate:

Lol... Unfortunately in the REAL WORLD not everything is defined by necessary, normal or desirable... Perhaps you should speak to Special Forces, anti terrorism squad's etc etc...

If only life was as simple as behaving in the manner or way the dictionary describes the word...

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on September 29, 2017, 04:21:03 PM
I think Vaughan was saying this in acceptance that Stokes has an ongoing problem and is in trouble with the ECB. The context was that the players are teated as adults - no curfews, free to soend evenings as they please - and that perhaps that needs to be looked at.

I don't think its necessarily a media free for all. There's a clear pattern to Stokes' behaviour that is relevant to the current incident. It provides context. I've been critical of Vaughan' sensationalist commentary in the past but i didn't get that thisntime, it felt more sad than anything...

Onto the other point regarding what is reasonable or excessive force, take any sentence you type and add 'your Honour' to the end of it.  Just to see how it would sound in court. What we think doesn't matter, its entirely down to the police and CPS.

Good points made in this post. I find it interesting people on this forum have very different ideas about sports people and being role models, Stokes is employed by the eco and there is a police investigation.he will have to take both consequences whatever they are....

Should we expect a whiter than white role model? I donít think we have the right to expect that myself
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 29, 2017, 05:51:26 PM
If there is a court case during the tour and with Stokes being innocent until proved otherwise  Stokes could if the ECB let him go   leave his legal team to sort out  what's needed go to Aus England and come back for the hearing.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 29, 2017, 06:10:41 PM
Can't see him being allowed to go if he has an impending court case
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: enlightened on September 29, 2017, 06:15:41 PM
Only one knob I"m afraid... Good news for you is that you must look at him every time you look in a mirror..

Stunning wit. Well done.

England vice captain - out at a nightclub at 2:30am in the middle of a one-day series. Gets involved in a fight which he could clearly have walked away from. Yep....really intelligent.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on September 29, 2017, 06:25:40 PM
Can't see him being allowed to go if he has an impending court case

If there was an impending court case surely AUS would have grounds for not granting Stokes a Visa to get into the country
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 29, 2017, 06:56:18 PM
First odi vs aus... who opens! Bairstow and Roy or does hales come back? (Take the incident out of the equation)

For me Roy has earns his spot and bairstow ha step hundreds in 4 games simple
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on September 29, 2017, 06:58:14 PM
Tough but...does Hales come back for someone other than those two?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 29, 2017, 08:07:30 PM
Tough but...does Hales come back for someone other than those two?
Who opens?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on September 29, 2017, 09:24:59 PM
Who opens?

Tricky - depends where Stokes is. If he is in; Roy, Hales, Root, YJB, Stokes, Buttler or Morgan. If out, replace or with and?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Sam on September 29, 2017, 09:39:31 PM
First odi vs aus... who opens! Bairstow and Roy or does hales come back? (Take the incident out of the equation)

For me Roy has earns his spot and bairstow ha step hundreds in 4 games simple

Root (and Stokes if he goes) will be rested at some point this winter. Probably can't have them on the other side of the world away from home for nearly 6 months straight.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Big Mac on September 29, 2017, 10:33:15 PM
Lol... Unfortunately in the REAL WORLD not everything is defined by necessary, normal or desirable... Perhaps you should speak to Special Forces, anti terrorism squad's etc etc...

If only life was as simple as behaving in the manner or way the dictionary describes the word...

That's literally what the word means. The last time I checked, anti-terror officers don't define the English language. Something can be excessive, or it can be necessary, but not both.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: joeljonno on September 30, 2017, 07:56:46 AM
So I saw the vid the other day, then saw the KP Facebook post.

Is that Hales putting the boot in too?

Whilst many would say ďthatís what I would doĒ, unfortunately for me he has gone too far.

I think they both should be banned from england and have their contracts terminated. There is no excuse for this sort of action, especially as someone who is a role model of the calibre of England vice-captain.

Unless they put a massive push on Stokes being apologetic etc. and remorseful I just cannot see how they can be on the plane to Aus.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on September 30, 2017, 08:22:26 AM
There is no excuse for this sort of action, especially as someone who is a role model of the calibre of England vice-captain.

I have until now stayed clear of this, and would like to keep doing so, but this I had to challenge.  If Stokes' defence is that he was protecting others from homophobic abuse from an idiot wielding a bottle as a weapon, do you really think his internal thought process should have been "blimey, I know that lad is about to have his nose sliced off, but I wouldn't want to bring von Strauss and the ECB chappies into disrepute like.  I'll just watch him bleed"?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Calzehbhoy on September 30, 2017, 08:29:13 AM
What is this obsession with Pro Sportspeople being 'Role Models'? On the pitch maybe kids want to emulate them but if you can't educate your kids that they shouldn't drink drive/get in fights then you've failed as a parent as you should be their Role Model!!!!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Northern monkey on September 30, 2017, 08:46:04 AM
I have until now stayed clear of this, and would like to keep doing so, but this I had to challenge.  If Stokes' defence is that he was protecting others from homophobic abuse from an idiot wielding a bottle as a weapon, do you really think his internal thought process should have been "blimey, I know that lad is about to have his nose sliced off, but I wouldn't want to bring von Strauss and the ECB chappies into disrepute like.  I'll just watch him bleed"?

But it's ok for stokes to punch a bloke backing away from him?
Who goes down pretty hard onto a road.!

They all look complete idiots and deserve to be judged on their unacceptable actions
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 30, 2017, 08:59:03 AM
But it's ok for stokes to punch a bloke backing away from him?
Who goes down pretty hard onto a road.!

They all look complete idiots and deserve to be judged on their unacceptable actions
If there's a case to be anwsered that'will be a key factor it's difficult to claim  you are protecting others you felt threaten  or self defence when the other guys are backing off.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 30, 2017, 09:08:33 AM
But it's ok for stokes to punch a bloke backing away from him?
Who goes down pretty hard onto a road.!

They all look complete idiots and deserve to be judged on their unacceptable actions
If there's a case to be  anwsered there's the key its difficult to provide a defence of protecting your friends /felt threatened  /self defence if others can provide evidence that they were backing off
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 30, 2017, 09:16:49 AM
The police are still appealing for witnesses,specifically the two men who were allegedly targeted with homophobic abuse- they haven't come forward yet:


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/29/xx (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/29/xx)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Number4 on September 30, 2017, 10:10:46 AM
I have until now stayed clear of this, and would like to keep doing so, but this I had to challenge.  If Stokes' defence is that he was protecting others from homophobic abuse from an idiot wielding a bottle as a weapon, do you really think his internal thought process should have been "blimey, I know that lad is about to have his nose sliced off, but I wouldn't want to bring von Strauss and the ECB chappies into disrepute like.  I'll just watch him bleed"?

So this is what actually happened? I didn't realise they had found any witnesses to corroborate this "defence"
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on September 30, 2017, 10:19:18 AM
1st Ashes Test - The Gabba, Brisbane. 23 - 27 November 2017

Australia XI:

Renshaw
Warner (VC)
Smith (C)
Handscomb
Maxwell
Finch
Wade (WK)
Starc
Cummins
Hazelwood
Lyon

England XI:

Cook
Stoneman
Ballance
Root (C)
Malan
Stokes (VC)
Bairstow (WK)
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

Anyone who disagrees can fight me.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on September 30, 2017, 10:26:29 AM
So this is what actually happened? I didn't realise they had found any witnesses to corroborate this "defence"

Nobody knows for sure other than those involved so I will be keep my powder dry before i start criticising anyone..

The main point for me is that there are witnesses and hopefully they will come forward and put an end to this sorry mess...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on September 30, 2017, 10:56:22 AM
Anyone who disagrees can fight me.

I'll fight you not to have Ballance at 3. I'll fight anyone so it doesnt happen.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on September 30, 2017, 11:08:58 AM
Ditto on Ballance,has had to many chances and nothing has changed!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on September 30, 2017, 11:37:15 AM
I'll fight you not to have Ballance at 3. I'll fight anyone so it doesnt happen.

Oh, I absolutely agree. But it's Ballance or James "C. 1st Slip" Vince.

I'd rather see Ballance have all 3 stumps splattered again than see Vince C. 1st Slip again. Purely for entertainment value.

But if you still want that fight...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on September 30, 2017, 12:34:30 PM
To be fair to Vince he was mainly caught at 2nd slip.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on September 30, 2017, 05:52:15 PM
@GoodLeave .... I'll fight you . No way finch should be in instead of khawaja. Name me something good finch has done in first class cricket recently ?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on September 30, 2017, 09:04:12 PM
@GoodLeave

England XI:

Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root (C)
Malan/Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow (WK and VC?)
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

That is more likely to be the XI. But more than the team/order, I have removed the "VC" from Stokes!
As much as I think he is a quality player, he is showing that he is not fit to be VC!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on October 01, 2017, 06:06:56 AM
If youve included stokes then its more of a christmas wish list than starting XI.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on October 01, 2017, 09:15:42 AM
@GoodLeave .... I'll fight you . No way finch should be in instead of khawaja. Name me something good finch has done in first class cricket recently ?

I've chosen Finch on current form. (Personally) I think form is transferable, so runs in ODI's should be considered "Form".

I think the team is pretty solid. Just choose any two of the four: Khawaja, Maxwell, Finch, Cartwright.

No way I'm fighting you though, why would anyone offer to fight a bloke who's nickname is "Biggie Smalls"!?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on October 01, 2017, 09:22:45 AM
@GoodLeave

England XI:

Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root (C)
Malan/Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow (WK and VC?)
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

That is more likely to be the XI. But more than the team/order, I have removed the "VC" from Stokes!
As much as I think he is a quality player, he is showing that he is not fit to be VC!

Can see your thinking Pete, I'm just not sold on Vince at 3 or 5. I think the only thing he's got going for him at the minute is that he's right handed. And I'm right handed, so I should stand as much chance.

Manno, you're right. I've put him in the team because I think it'll be a fine and a telling off. I don't agree with it, but I also don't agree with not walking. When there's money on the line, morals seem to go missing.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 01, 2017, 09:48:40 AM
Can see your thinking Pete, I'm just not sold on Vince at 3 or 5. I think the only thing he's got going for him at the minute is that he's right handed. And I'm right handed, so I should stand as much chance.

Manno, you're right. I've put him in the team because I think it'll be a fine and a telling off. I don't agree with it, but I also don't agree with not walking. When there's money on the line, morals seem to go missing.

I think Pete is pretty close to the team @GoodLeave , I think Vince  is nailed on at 3 because Root does not want to bat there, Ballance is a number 5. could be wrong but Vince bats 3 or maybe 4 for Hampshire and opens sometimes in the shorter format.

with Root at 4 Malan is the player in position and has done ok so he stays in the team at 5 or 6.

But Stokes I can't see being there, he is odds on to miss the whole trip while the case hangs over him.
We then need another batsman instead of Stokes or another bowler-either way it's not as strong a tam by miles.

Can't help thinking someone like Samit Patel would fit in place such a shame he did not become a fully fledged test player.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on October 01, 2017, 11:46:46 AM
I've chosen Finch on current form. (Personally) I think form is transferable, so runs in ODI's should be considered "Form".

I think the team is pretty solid. Just choose any two of the four: Khawaja, Maxwell, Finch, Cartwright.

No way I'm fighting you though, why would anyone offer to fight a bloke who's nickname is "Biggie Smalls"!?


I see your thinking and i used to be tempted by that too... but finch's t20/odi form has never really transferred over before so i think its too risky . Maxwell and cartright have at least established solid first class stats , so id go with one of them .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: brokenbat on October 01, 2017, 04:52:28 PM
The police are still appealing for witnesses,specifically the two men who were allegedly targeted with homophobic abuse- they haven't come forward yet:


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/29/xx (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/29/xx)

Apparently the guy who got punched is an Army vet!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on October 02, 2017, 12:18:07 PM
England Lions squad for Australia : Dom Bess (Somerset), Joe Clarke (Worcestershire), Paul Coughlin (Nottinghamshire), Alex Davies (Lancashire), Ben Duckett (Northamptonshire), George Garton (Sussex), Nick Gubbins (Middlesex), Tom Helm (Middlesex), Keaton Jennings (Lancashire), Dan Lawrence (Essex), Jack Leach (Somerset), Liam Livingstone (Lancashire), Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire), Jamie Porter (Essex), Amar Virdi (Surrey), Tom Westley (Essex), Mark Wood (Durham).
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Buzz on October 02, 2017, 12:33:16 PM
No room for Sam Northeast, Rory Burns, Tom or Sam Curran.
There must be some serious talent in English cricket right now if those guys don't get picked.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on October 02, 2017, 12:39:00 PM
Bit baffled by Burns not being selected; one of the top 3 run scorers in the Championship
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on October 02, 2017, 12:40:21 PM
No room for Sam Northeast, Rory Burns, Tom or Sam Curran.
There must be some serious talent in English cricket right now if those guys don't get picked.

Quite agree - I have nothing against anyone in the squad that was picked - they are all either young and up and coming (in the case of Amar Virdi, very young!) or recent England picks.  But I am very surprised by some of the omissions - the two Curran lads, I would have expected to be in there (though I suspect Tom will play all of the ODIs and probably go on the New Zealand tour, so it is probably more a case of managing his workload), and I am amazed that Ben Coad has not been selected as one of the two standout quicks in the top division this season.  I would also have thought that Matt Parkinson and Daniel Bell-Drummond might have been in there.

Burns...now there is an odd one; his method is so ugly that it is easy to miss that he does make a huge amount of runs.  The only problem is, he makes them on a shirtfront at the DrOval which makes it very difficult to tell whether they are a sign of quality, or of the fact that most club players could make runs on a pitch that never deviates.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Sam on October 02, 2017, 12:43:42 PM
Wasn't Tom Curran being tipped for a BBL contract?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on October 02, 2017, 12:43:50 PM
Coad, Burns, Hameed and the Currans were the big surprise for me, perhaps they already feel they know enough about Tom Curran but thought Sam might have gone.

*EDIT*

Unless Hameed's hand won't have recovered in time, maybe that's why he's missed out.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on October 02, 2017, 12:48:10 PM
Also with my bias I like both Tom/Sam, but they've hardly barked up trees this year in what has been a piss poor bowling attack. Time and time again this year they've all failed to knock tails over, depressingly bad to watch.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on October 02, 2017, 04:35:12 PM
None of the white ball players were selected so it makes me think that they are going to try and get them BBL contracts.

Hameed wasn't selected because of his hand injury apparently.

I do feel for Coad, Burns and Northeast though. But like others have said I don't have any issue with anyone in that squad.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on October 03, 2017, 10:36:29 PM
Little update on the Stokes affair:

Ben Stokes: England all-rounder to miss Ashes if inquiry ongoing when tour starts - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41490875 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41490875)


Hoping against hope that the charges are dropped...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 04, 2017, 06:15:15 AM
Yes as we thought it practically impossible for stokes to be cleared before the squad departs or for the case to be concluded in six weeks. The police don't put time limits on investigations so Stokes won't be playing in the Ashes . The ECB won't take him whilst it's on going as the article says.

The longer it goes without these two guys coming forward as well the worse it will be for him, if the two guys exist at all.


Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on October 04, 2017, 10:25:08 AM
Hoping against hope that the charges are dropped...

Really can't see that happening, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on October 04, 2017, 10:28:04 AM


I do feel for Coad, Burns and Northeast though. But like others have said I don't have any issue with anyone in that squad.

Northeast and Burns seem to have quite idiosyncratic techniques. I wonder if that goes against them.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: DorsetDan on October 04, 2017, 10:44:02 AM
Hoping against hope that the charges are dropped...

Why? As many articles have pointed out, would anyone be extending leniency and sympathy for a fringe player? One went as mad as a box of badgers and the other showed himself to be one hell of a coward. Kind of ironic pairing. If it were not for the video then one could say let the police investigation run and let that determine their playing outcome but I don't think that will be seen as acceptable (even if the charges were dropped) with half the world seeing what happened and the ECB will have to act on that in addition to the police investigation.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 04, 2017, 11:01:44 AM
Donít think there is a cat in hells chance the charges will be dropped, itís just a case of whether there is provocation and witnesses to back up Stokes

Abh is pretty serious and the cops wonít care how long it takes to get the evidence.

Iíd be amazed if he not withdrawn from the ashes squad in the next few days
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on October 04, 2017, 12:53:02 PM
What's going with those two "witnesses"?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 04, 2017, 01:30:29 PM
What's going with those two "witnesses"?

The police have appealed for them to come forward, Stokes is bang in trouble anyway but the police want to know if he was trying to defend them and there was provocation

There is also the possibility Stokes is lying....

Really....this is a bad situation all round , canít remember the last time something this bad happened
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Neon Cricket on October 04, 2017, 01:43:21 PM
Has everyone seen the snapchat screenshots that are floating around of Hales/Stokes?

Put it this way, Stokes may never play for England again...

Although on a positive he's got his autobiography title sorted: "Girls, Cocaine & England Helmets"

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on October 04, 2017, 01:54:26 PM
Has everyone seen the snapchat screenshots that are floating around of Hales/Stokes?

Put it this way, Stokes may never play for England again...

Although on a positive he's got his autobiography title sorted: "Girls, C
Has everyone seen the snapchat screenshots that are floating around of Hales/Stokes?

Put it this way, Stokes may never play for England again...

Although on a positive he's got his autobiography title sorted: "Girls, Cocaine & England Helmets"


ocaine & England Helmets"






Only the Harvey "you're a c#*@"ones from a week or so ago , are there more?!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on October 04, 2017, 02:45:09 PM
Has everyone seen the snapchat screenshots that are floating around of Hales/Stokes?

Put it this way, Stokes may never play for England again...

Although on a positive he's got his autobiography title sorted: "Girls, Cocaine & England Helmets"

The Harvey price ones? Or are there ones from Bristol?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on October 04, 2017, 03:12:21 PM
Hales is looking great too these days, ditch a friend and run off to play gold after his arrest, kick a guy in the head when he's down. Stuff of legends. :D :D :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on October 04, 2017, 04:20:12 PM
Although on a positive he's got his autobiography title sorted: "Girls, Cocaine & England Helmets"

Or just 'Helmets'?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Neon Cricket on October 04, 2017, 05:22:27 PM
Haha exactly @Bats_Entertainment :D

And sadly yes, I've seen a good 10 snapchats which are simply horrendous lol (if not quite funny too) - no doubt they'll be out in the open soon enough. I'd go as far as saying they're on par/if not worse than the fight from an ECB perspective mind...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on October 04, 2017, 06:38:24 PM
Talk about leaving as hanging @Neon Cricket!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: DorsetDan on October 04, 2017, 06:43:25 PM
Bad choice of words?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Neon Cricket on October 04, 2017, 07:34:29 PM
Talk about leaving as hanging @Neon Cricket!


I'd say more but it's so totally NSFW I don't think half of it would get past the swear filter haha - the whole thing just reminded me of this;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3392612/Man-said-spend-Powerball-jackpot-bunch-hookers-cocaine-apologizes-reveals-married-two-kids.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3392612/Man-said-spend-Powerball-jackpot-bunch-hookers-cocaine-apologizes-reveals-married-two-kids.html)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on October 04, 2017, 07:53:57 PM
I'd say more but it's so totally NSFW I don't think half of it would get past the swear filter haha - the whole thing just reminded me of this;

[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3392612/Man-said-spend-Powerball-jackpot-bunch-hookers-cocaine-apologizes-reveals-married-two-kids.html[/url] ([url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3392612/Man-said-spend-Powerball-jackpot-bunch-hookers-cocaine-apologizes-reveals-married-two-kids.html[/url])


Sounds like a fun evening was had-up until the arrest! :o :(
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: LateBloomer on October 04, 2017, 08:48:06 PM
Just seen that Pattinson has been ruled out of the whole series

Whilst he wasnt a certain starter it definitely weakens the Aussie options. All we need now is Starc and Cummins to break down and Ben Stokes identical twin to come forward as the perpetrator of the Bristol assault and I reckon its about equal money

Barmy army!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on October 05, 2017, 02:00:48 AM
What's going with those two "witnesses"?




i think its the book of revelation.....they prophecy for 3.5yrs and bring plagues to humanity for their sins. then they're killed and left laying in the gutter .
....well, you asked  :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kieron_BT on October 05, 2017, 11:36:51 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41512371 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41512371)

Stokes to be awarded Central contract with ECB tomorrow

Maybe they know something not yet in the public domain?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Neon Cricket on October 05, 2017, 11:52:24 AM
Still need to act along the innocent until proven guilty lines - if/when he's charged I'm in no doubt that his contract will get taken away quicker than you can shout 'amateur boxing career'.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mdg20 on October 05, 2017, 12:14:17 PM
Still need to act along the innocent until proven guilty lines - if/when he's charged I'm in no doubt that his contract will get taken away quicker than you can shout 'amateur boxing career'.

Yeah right thing for ECB to do, as Neon says if he's found guilty then it'll be taken away instantly
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 05, 2017, 12:22:38 PM
Yeah right thing for ECB to do, as Neon says if he's found guilty then it'll be taken away instantly

The brewery as withdrawn its  TV add showing Cook and Stokes having an after the cricket match pint in the pub the one called   its a Knockout.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on October 05, 2017, 01:28:33 PM
The brewery as withdrawn its  TV add showing Cook and Stokes having an after the cricket match pint in the pub the one called   its a Knockout.

Good job he cashed in with the IPL last season. Get the feeling he's off to the Job Centre in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 05, 2017, 01:31:59 PM
According to the guardian, these two guys being abused who were apparently there have still not come forward

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Big Mac on October 05, 2017, 02:14:46 PM
According to the guardian, these two guys being abused who were apparently there have still not come forward

Plot Twist: The two guys are Stokes and Hales.

(https://www.cinepremiere.com.mx/imgsHistorico/u8/040723_mnightshyamalan_bcol_2pwidec.jpg)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on October 05, 2017, 02:32:49 PM
^ Well,  that is a possibility that we should not rule out.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: csnew on October 05, 2017, 03:05:03 PM
Good job he cashed in with the IPL last season. Get the feeling he's off to the Job Centre in a few weeks.

Might cash in with a BBL deal too - that could be a massive distraction if he doesn't go to the ashes but ends up at the BBL. Suspect ECB won't allow him to
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on October 05, 2017, 03:12:01 PM
Can't see how they can stop him unless they ban him from all cricket under icc

sacking him then not issuing an NOC would be restriction of trade so can't go that avenue

Would be distracting if he smashes a hundred or 2 and we are struggling
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on October 05, 2017, 03:19:01 PM
Might cash in with a BBL deal too - that could be a massive distraction if he doesn't go to the ashes but ends up at the BBL. Suspect ECB won't allow him to

Possibility then they may keep him on central contract but ban him for 6 months meaning he couldn't play in BBL...
If they cancel his central contract then I would expect him in BBL, IPL etc...
Just hope the decisions are made quickly by everyone involved and we can get back to cricket :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on October 05, 2017, 03:22:51 PM
Can't see how they can stop him unless they ban him from all cricket under icc

sacking him then not issuing an NOC would be restriction of trade so can't go that avenue

Would be distracting if he smashes a hundred or 2 and we are struggling

Only way they can stop him playing cricket is if he is on central contract...

ICC can't do anything unless it contravenes their rules and fighting back against someone who comes at you with a bottle (currently) isn't in their rules.  :) :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on October 05, 2017, 03:58:13 PM
Canít see ecb just banning him

They will sack if charged and convicted as doubts will be jail time more like probation and community service
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 05, 2017, 05:23:22 PM
Canít see ecb just banning him

They will sack if charged and convicted as doubts will be jail time more like probation and community service

Its reported  that the ECB have got the CDC involved.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 05, 2017, 05:25:52 PM
The term Ďsackí is a bit confusing.they could ban him and withdraw his central contract.
There is absolutely no way Durham could afford his salary so should the ecb cancel his contract that throws up another question-which county would pay him...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 05, 2017, 05:31:53 PM
The term Ďsackí is a bit confusing.they could ban him and withdraw his central contract.
There is absolutely no way Durham could afford his salary so should the ecb cancel his contract that throws up another question-which county would pay him...

If it comes to it Stokes need not have a county he could  be like others travel the world playing T20
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 05, 2017, 05:37:42 PM
If it comes to it Stokes need not have a county he could  be like others travel the world playing T20

Yes true it could..and what a massive regret that would be for a player in his prime
Call me old fashioned but nothing beats representing your country, 2020 is not test cricket

I still believe modern players see test caps as the ones they want more than anything
Perhaps I am out of date.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on October 05, 2017, 05:47:18 PM
The most famous players from past years (even from when T20 and ODI's were around) are Test players.
In my eyes Stokes could be one of the best all-rounders ever, as he was starting to look better and better with experience.
But at this rate, he may still be famous but for the wrong reasons!!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 06, 2017, 07:36:57 AM
Yes true it could..and what a massive regret that would be for a player in his prime
Call me old fashioned but nothing beats representing your country, 2020 is not test cricket

I still believe modern players see test caps as the ones they want more than anything
Perhaps I am out of date.
No not out of date thinking
Many  players  do treasure test caps but big money talks many have given up there test careers to play T20 more and  more each year are seen to be travelling around the world doing so and not all are from poorer paid test playing countries or at the end of there  test careers.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on October 06, 2017, 08:58:56 AM
The brewery as withdrawn its  TV add showing Cook and Stokes having an after the cricket match pint in the pub the one called   its a Knockout.

I think it was called "The knockabout"

The ones where it said Knockout were photoshopped after the event!  :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mattdawson on October 06, 2017, 11:50:13 AM
Tour prep is going well...

ECB announce that @jbairstow21, @JakeBall & @Liam628 have been fined for unprofessional conduct. Unrelated to Stokes/Hales investigation
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on October 06, 2017, 11:51:20 AM
Stokes travel delayed, Finn added to squad

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41522536 (http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41522536)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 06, 2017, 11:57:22 AM
Tour prep is going well...

ECB announce that @jbairstow21, @JakeBall & @Liam628 have been fined for unprofessional conduct. Unrelated to Stokes/Hales investigation
For
Being out during the ODI series  until the early hours
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: smilley792 on October 06, 2017, 12:16:32 PM
Ben stokes.

Steven finn

2 of these are not the same. 1 is not like the other!



England super poor in the batting department, lose an all-rounder, let's add a bowler to the squad!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 06, 2017, 12:19:12 PM
Iím gonna say this ....and I cannot stand the bloke and his fake tattoos , his selfishness and disruptive influence on the team...
But...

Kevin pieterson never did anything like this and got permanently sacked
Always trained and practised and if he did have a few beers never got in trouble.
No one could question his commitment to improve and be the best he could be.

There Iíve said it.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on October 06, 2017, 12:24:33 PM
Does Finn's addition suggest they will play an extra bowler?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: FattusCattus on October 06, 2017, 12:29:54 PM
Iím gonna say this ....and I cannot stand the bloke and his fake tattoos , his selfishness and disruptive influence on the team...
But...

Kevin pieterson never did anything like this and got permanently sacked
Always trained and practised and if he did have a few beers never got in trouble.
No one could question his commitment to improve and be the best he could be.

There Iíve said it.

Yeah - but Ben Stokes never texted his mates in the opposition team with advice on how to get his own captain out.

Ben Stokes (to our knowledge) has never attempted to oust an existing coach

Ben Stokes (to our knowledge) hasn't belittled a debutant teammates abilities in front of the rest of the team.


They are frankly no better than each other in different ways.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: FattusCattus on October 06, 2017, 12:30:24 PM
Does Finn's addition suggest they will play an extra bowler?

No - it suggests they are clueless as to the best balance of squad to pick.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on October 06, 2017, 12:36:41 PM
The unselectable Steven Finn has been selected wow!

I give up I actually give up! Utter nonsense selection!

Plunkett should have been the man!

It's unfathomable!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on October 06, 2017, 12:45:43 PM
i really don't get on the day you take away Finn's central contract you can select him for the Ashes!

this is absolutely bazaar  :( :(
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on October 06, 2017, 12:49:43 PM
So Finn has bowled well in his last match of the season at County level and not looked particularly special up until then, and is not a great batsman either.
And Plunkett has bowled well at International level (be it in ODI format) and can handle a bat too.
So let's pick Finn!  :o

#BAFFLED!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: smilley792 on October 06, 2017, 12:55:23 PM
So do we reckon woakes will bat at 6 in the ashes. You know with him being a genuine all-rounder.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on October 06, 2017, 01:13:47 PM
Think I'll stop looking for cheap BT Sport.

We're going to get murdered, aren't we.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mattdawson on October 06, 2017, 01:31:41 PM
Can only presume they believe Finn does more with the red ball than any other option.

Wasn't it reported they felt Plunkett didn't do enough with the red ball had no lateral movement.

can get away with that in white ball apparently, but not with a red kook that will move for 20 over max?

Personal opinion is we need an extra bowler for the tests, 3 seamers and a spinner would be a lot of strain on them over 5 tests when we'll be bowling twice in 1.5 days at this rate.

But theres definitely not enough depth in batting, proves where Stokes was so valuable to this side as he appeared to mature on the pitch less so off it. 
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Tailendfielder on October 06, 2017, 01:45:09 PM
Disagree, i like Finn. Its unfortunate graeme Smith messed him up a bit. His not likely to play anyway, is he? Probably a good drinks carrier.

With Woakes Moeen and Bairstow we have alot of allrounder that allow us to pick an extra bat or bowler dependant of the wicket. We are quite lucky with all rounders even if stokes cannot play.

Plunkett should be there but his only bowled 43 overs in county cricket this year. So i can understand why theyve not picked him.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on October 06, 2017, 02:01:46 PM
Disagree, i like Finn. Its unfortunate graeme Smith messed him up a bit. His not likely to play anyway, is he? Probably a good drinks carrier.

With Woakes Moeen and Bairstow we have alot of allrounder that allow us to pick an extra bat or bowler dependant of the wicket. We are quite lucky with all rounders even if stokes cannot play.

Plunkett should be there but his only bowled 43 overs in county cricket this year. So i can understand why theyve not picked him.

Are you even a real fan if you agree with the national selectors in any sport?  ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on October 06, 2017, 02:08:33 PM
...His not likely to play anyway, is he? Probably a good drinks carrier.

I think theyve got a few of them already, why they need another is beyond me!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on October 06, 2017, 02:42:21 PM
So do we reckon woakes will bat at 6 in the ashes. You know with him being a genuine all-rounder.
yes
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on October 06, 2017, 02:49:27 PM
The fact only eight players have been awarded central contracts for tests, says it all about how unsettled those three other slots are...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 06, 2017, 02:57:10 PM
So do we reckon woakes will bat at 6 in the ashes. You know with him being a genuine all-rounder.

Yes !
And if we had picked Samit Patel it gives an option to have a decent player below him who does both bat and bowl
Even us Middlesex supporters cannot say Finn deserves a spot
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on October 06, 2017, 03:49:24 PM
I agree Samit looked the most obvious like for like replacement (assuming that we wouldn't go back to Tim Bresnan or Rikki Clarke as one series stop gaps).  I'm assuming they'll have YJB at six, Ali seven, Woakes 8 and Overton 9, which would be a reasonable lower order, were it not for the flaky as all hell top order above it.

I like the point about fans agreeing with selectors.  But here is the think - my other sport is Rugby Union, and I rarely have major disagreements with the side that Eddie Jones picks.  I might have "favourites" who I think should be considered, but the fact is Eddie's choices have gravitas.  Whittaker and his joke mates, not so much...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on October 06, 2017, 04:30:22 PM
I agree Samit looked the most obvious like for like replacement (assuming that we wouldn't go back to Tim Bresnan or Rikki Clarke as one series stop gaps).  I'm assuming they'll have YJB at six, Ali seven, Woakes 8 and Overton 9, which would be a reasonable lower order, were it not for the flaky as all hell top order above it.

I like the point about fans agreeing with selectors.  But here is the think - my other sport is Rugby Union, and I rarely have major disagreements with the side that Eddie Jones picks.  I might have "favourites" who I think should be considered, but the fact is Eddie's choices have gravitas.  Whittaker and his joke mates, not so much...

batting wise yes samit would be a decent replacement however i think he'd get into trouble hooking and wafting the short ball on a quick bouncy track he'd be caught fine leg a lot.
bowling do we need another off spinner?

i think we can rule out a like for like (yes i know theyve plumped for finn) but there isnt another player who can do what stokes can, bat at 6 on merit and be one of your main seamers on merit plus be a gun fielder, there isnt many people who have that ability at all in world cricket right now, for me Shakib is about the only other genuine all round (happy to be proven wrong) and hes on a break from test cricket (again happy to be proven wrong), one day S Curran could fill those shoes as he bowls and bats but hes no where near the required level at either yet!

for me plunkett would have been the choice but as theyve gone for finn lets back him after all he didnt have THAT bad of a series in 2010 the only reason he was dropped was runs he was still taking wickets, you dont become the fastest englishman to X (50 or 100 cant remember the stat) number of wickets without being talented besides remember edgbaston in the last ashes here! he bowled magnificently!

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on October 06, 2017, 04:42:09 PM
batting wise yes samit would be a decent replacement however i think he'd get into trouble hooking and wafting the short ball on a quick bouncy track he'd be caught fine leg a lot.
bowling do we need another off spinner?

i think we can rule out a like for like (yes i know theyve plumped for finn) but there isnt another player who can do what stokes can, bat at 6 on merit and be one of your main seamers on merit plus be a gun fielder, there isnt many people who have that ability at all in world cricket right now, for me Shakib is about the only other genuine all round (happy to be proven wrong) and hes on a break from test cricket (again happy to be proven wrong), one day S Curran could fill those shoes as he bowls and bats but hes no where near the required level at either yet!

for me plunkett would have been the choice but as theyve gone for finn lets back him after all he didnt have THAT bad of a series in 2010 the only reason he was dropped was runs he was still taking wickets, you dont become the fastest englishman to X (50 or 100 cant remember the stat) number of wickets without being talented besides remember edgbaston in the last ashes here! he bowled magnificently!

Would say you have nailed it on the head about Samit and Plunkett... :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Tailendfielder on October 06, 2017, 05:44:41 PM
Are you even a real fan if you agree with the national selectors in any sport?  ;)

My bad.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on October 06, 2017, 06:37:38 PM
Would say you have nailed it on the head about Samit and Plunkett... :)

Look, I'm usually the first to spot the slight on the Yorkshire lad but really, Plunkett has no red ball form to speak off for two years or more and is not quite quick enough to be the hurry up merchant people are expecting.  Not saying Finn would have been my pick, but I can sort of see why Liam wasn't.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on October 06, 2017, 06:44:22 PM
Samit bowls left-arm.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on October 06, 2017, 06:46:15 PM
Samit bowls left-arm.

Bowls left hand, bats right, eats with both...  :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on October 06, 2017, 07:16:59 PM
Bowls left hand, bats right, eats with both...  :D


No off-spinner; never off dinner.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on October 06, 2017, 07:19:40 PM


No off-spinner; never off dinner.

A man who believes a balanced diet is a Big Mac meal in each hand!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on October 06, 2017, 07:38:24 PM
Still trying to understand a world where you can fine YJB. I mean, its YJB
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on October 06, 2017, 07:40:15 PM
Still trying to understand a world where you can fine YJB. I mean, its YJB

Quite.  He's not another angry Ginger haired larrikin in his spare time at all! 
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: tate035 on October 06, 2017, 08:16:06 PM
Look, I'm usually the first to spot the slight on the Yorkshire lad but really, Plunkett has no red ball form to speak off for two years or more and is not quite quick enough to be the hurry up merchant people are expecting.  Not saying Finn would have been my pick, but I can sort of see why Liam wasn't.

Point taken but for me on those Australian wickets I would pick Plunkett to bowl the same back of a length delivery he does in one day cricket.
Plunkett also has a great shorter ball that he aims at the body with decent pace...
Too many demons for Finn in Australia and Plunkett is a better bat and fielder..  :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on October 06, 2017, 08:39:16 PM
Take your point about batting and fielding, but surely someone with some red ball form has to be taken.

Not certain who, mind.  For pure pace, I wonder whether Mark Footitt could have been a wild card?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: FattusCattus on October 06, 2017, 08:51:05 PM
And therein lies the question. Who else, apart from Overton is a Ďhurry up merchant Ď?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on October 06, 2017, 09:35:12 PM
And therein lies the question. Who else, apart from Overton is a Ďhurry up merchant Ď?

And that is the other Overton!

From what I have seen, the quickest are Footitt, Archer and on his day Meaker. Matt Fisher and Josh Tongue have the potential to make it there, and some say Tom Helm can to, though I have not seen it.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on October 06, 2017, 09:50:59 PM
Meaker in Australia would be a disaster. Please don't entertain the though.

Again, YJB being fined is madness. He's the kind of bloke who would help your nan with her shopping
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on October 06, 2017, 10:11:22 PM
I saw a bit of Olly Stone on sky during one of the T20 games,he hit 90 mph a couple of times. Otis Gibson talked him up as a prospect. Has had injury troubles though.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on October 06, 2017, 10:24:15 PM
Mark Footitt got an injury after joining Notts and did not play. If he'd have reproduced his early season form he'd have been in with a strong shout.

Meaker?  Don't be ridiculous!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on October 06, 2017, 10:34:57 PM
Quite.  He's not another angry Ginger haired larrikin in his spare time at all!

But he does seem to change his bat sponsor quite often.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on October 07, 2017, 09:36:27 AM
Mark Footitt got an injury after joining Notts and did not play. If he'd have reproduced his early season form he'd have been in with a strong shout.

Meaker?  Don't be ridiculous!

I was not for a moment proposing that any of those listed be selected, I was merely saying they were amongst the fastest men in the Championship last season, more to illustrate the paucity of options than anything!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 07, 2017, 11:39:40 AM
Always felt  a special batsman or bowler was being considered Finns selection is due to the notion that pace and bounce in OZ (69 wickets last series to seamers ) wins matches  therefore it should have been Plukett but it's obvious now that the selectors see him as an ODI only player.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on October 07, 2017, 04:57:48 PM
According to the BBC hales isn't expecting any charges against him, he should be available for the Odis after the ashes if that is the case unless the ecb suspends him
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on October 07, 2017, 05:12:26 PM
I find it strange that Hales's lawyer has come out and said he doesn't expect a charge when it's an ongoing investigation.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on October 07, 2017, 05:21:23 PM
I dont.

Neither will get charged, and stokes will play Ashes. Ecb and a sympathetic police will massage a suitable outcome for the sake of national sporting success. Sad but true.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on October 07, 2017, 05:41:05 PM
That's great news Manno,I do hope you're right! Ashes success comes before crime and punishment in my book!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on October 07, 2017, 06:01:32 PM
I dont.

Neither will get charged, and stokes will play Ashes. Ecb and a sympathetic police will massage a suitable outcome for the sake of national sporting success. Sad but true.

Aussies would do the same
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on October 07, 2017, 06:07:22 PM
I dont.

Neither will get charged, and stokes will play Ashes. Ecb and a sympathetic police will massage a suitable outcome for the sake of national sporting success. Sad but true.

"a sympathetic police"?  Really?  If Stokes were Joepublic, I doubt he would even be under investigation - man wields bottle, man gets smashed, end of.  The ECB treatment of him is so far removed from what any normal person would see. 
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on October 07, 2017, 06:20:00 PM
Yeah really. I can assure you, if joepublics boss saw footage of that he'd soon be joeunemployed.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on October 07, 2017, 07:29:24 PM
Yeah really. I can assure you, if joepublics boss saw footage of that he'd soon be joeunemployed.

Really? *takes law degree off shelf*
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on October 07, 2017, 07:58:48 PM
"Man wields bottle, man gets smashed, end of. Your honour, i rest my case!"

Stokes needs you on his legal team.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Calzehbhoy on October 07, 2017, 08:47:15 PM
Yeah really. I can assure you, if joepublics boss saw footage of that he'd soon be joeunemployed.

Not sure who you work for but not a chance my current (or any of my previous for that matter) bosses would sack me because of a fight on a night out....

Work is Mon-Fri, whatever you do at the weekend is up to you unless you are, on that night out, directly representing your company.

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on October 07, 2017, 08:58:18 PM
According to Vaughan on the Tuffers and Vaughan show,as it was mid-ODI series,Stokes was still"at work" at 2am in Bristol on 25th September...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mdg20 on October 08, 2017, 12:35:43 AM
Not sure who you work for but not a chance my current (or any of my previous for that matter) bosses would sack me because of a fight on a night out....

Work is Mon-Fri, whatever you do at the weekend is up to you unless you are, on that night out, directly representing your company.

If it gets out in the press who your employers are then they are well within their right to dismiss you for bringing the companies name into disrepute
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mdg20 on October 08, 2017, 12:38:09 AM
"a sympathetic police"?  Really?  If Stokes were Joepublic, I doubt he would even be under investigation - man wields bottle, man gets smashed, end of.  The ECB treatment of him is so far removed from what any normal person would see.

you make it sound acceptable that he punched him. How about man wields bottle other man thinks i'm not getting involved in this (especially as i'm an international sports superstar) i'm going go home
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Big Mac on October 08, 2017, 12:45:40 AM
Not sure who you work for but not a chance my current (or any of my previous for that matter) bosses would sack me because of a fight on a night out....

Work is Mon-Fri, whatever you do at the weekend is up to you unless you are, on that night out, directly representing your company.

When you're an international sports star, pretty much everything you do represents your employer.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: NT50 on October 08, 2017, 01:05:40 AM
you make it sound acceptable that he punched him. How about man wields bottle other man thinks i'm not getting involved in this (especially as i'm an international sports superstar) i'm going go home

So if someone comes at you with a bottle youíre going to say ďjolly-ho Iím off nowĒ?

Iíve seen a friend nearly die after being smashed on the head with a bottle, you think that just because Stokes happens to be good at cricket, he should be able to laugh off someone trying to seriously injure him?



Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on October 08, 2017, 06:38:30 AM
So if someone comes at you with a bottle youíre going to say ďjolly-ho Iím off nowĒ?

Iíve seen a friend nearly die after being smashed on the head with a bottle, you think that just because Stokes happens to be good at cricket, he should be able to laugh off someone trying to seriously injure him?

Having watched the video again, if there is a bottle involved, it gets dropped in the first few seconds. It's at this point that a sober Ben Stokes might have thought better of it.

Employment wise, it probably reflects badly on you as a person if a video emerges of you fighting on a night out. Even if you are Joe Public.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mdg20 on October 08, 2017, 08:45:24 AM
So if someone comes at you with a bottle youíre going to say ďjolly-ho Iím off nowĒ?

Iíve seen a friend nearly die after being smashed on the head with a bottle, you think that just because Stokes happens to be good at cricket, he should be able to laugh off someone trying to seriously injure him?

Yes, you run away. Sorry if that doesn't match up to the brain dead manly/macho do him before he does you thinking. Not like he was pinned in the corner with no way out.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on October 08, 2017, 10:34:29 AM
Why is this still being discussed? 😂
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: smilley792 on October 08, 2017, 10:55:53 AM
Funny world we live in.


Stokes is being vilified for not running away and standing up for himself.


Dan bilzerian ran away from a man shooting at a crowd from a vantage point, and he's being vilified for not helping and shooting back.


Not sure anyone can win either way

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on October 08, 2017, 11:05:16 AM
Funny world we live in.


Stokes is being vilified for not running away and standing up for himself.


Dan bilzerian ran away from a man shooting at a crowd from a vantage point, and he's being vilified for not helping and shooting back.


Not sure anyone can win either way

To be fair Dan Blitz claims hes the best of the best, he may have gone back later on but his initial reaction was to film it for instagram.

I dont blame him I'd be the first away from it all but i dont claim to be what he says he is.

But yes noone will win because there's a expectation of perfection.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: bk on October 08, 2017, 01:25:43 PM
So who are the other 2 participants in the Stokes brawl? Have they been identified anywhere?

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on October 08, 2017, 01:30:19 PM
you make it sound acceptable that he punched him. How about man wields bottle other man thinks i'm not getting involved in this (especially as i'm an international sports superstar) i'm going go home

Is it acceptable?  That is a very difficult call, because we only have what is doubtless the most damning possible edit of the footage on which to go - because, lets face it, The Sun sell more newspapers if they can drag Stokes through the mire.  Based on that footage, you have a guy wielding a bottle in an aggressive manner - that immediately brings a defence of self defence into play, and you have to bear in mind that the proportionality of that self defence is not what some of the keyboard warriors on here feel is reasonable from their moral high horse, but what the person legitimately feeling threatened feels is necessary. 

In fact, were it not for the clear pause between actions, I doubt anyone would be concerned.  But yes, there is a clear pause, and those last couple of shots take some explaining.  In a court of law, that is not as hard as one might think - after all, the  guy being punched clearly initiated the overall aggression, but on film it looks uncomfortable.

My concern here is, he was not at work when it happened, and defending yourself is not cause for a disrepute charge in any event. 

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: billyb on October 08, 2017, 01:34:53 PM
Back on cricketing terms, I'm really not sure that Australia are as good as they think they are. Other than Smith/Warner, their batting line-up is relatively weak in comparison to ours... I think we have a decent chance out there.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on October 09, 2017, 12:44:19 AM
Back on cricketing terms, I'm really not sure that Australia are as good as they think they are. Other than Smith/Warner, their batting line-up is relatively weak in comparison to ours... I think we have a decent chance out there.

renshaw , and in particular,  khawaja and handscomb will make plenty of runs on home wickets.....i said it before - english supporters will see the arrival of handscomb as a test batsman of much merit.

Having said that , the batting lineups could be quite evenly matched still. cook, root , bairstow , ali , woakes , possibly stokes  vs renshaw,  warner , smith , khawaja , handsomb is pretty even . the aussies have home wickets on our side . poms have possibly one more batsman of note (and a deeper batting order , period ) in your favour.
the deciding factor could well be the bowling attacks. I think woakes , anderson will have moments of effectiveness aswell as getting pasted when using the old ball unless it reverses.  broad , stokes , finn (dont know much about overton etc ) can be more effective more often if they bowl aussie lengths.  ali should have a similar effectiveness to lyon provided he stays didiplined. however , i think starc , Hazelwood and cummins should regularly outbowl the english seamers,  thus allowing aussie ashes victory.....unless more than one of them get injured ( with pattinson  out , we only have coulter nile and behrendoff in reserve ....i dont think bird or sayers would have much impact tbh).
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on October 09, 2017, 03:43:12 AM
renshaw , and in particular,  khawaja and handscomb will make plenty of runs on home wickets.....i said it before - english supporters will see the arrival of handscomb as a test batsman of much merit.

Having said that , the batting lineups could be quite evenly matched still. cook, root , bairstow , ali , woakes , possibly stokes  vs renshaw,  warner , smith , khawaja , handsomb is pretty even . the aussies have home wickets on our side . poms have possibly one more batsman of note (and a deeper batting order , period ) in your favour.
the deciding factor could well be the bowling attacks. I think woakes , anderson will have moments of effectiveness aswell as getting pasted when using the old ball unless it reverses.  broad , stokes , finn (dont know much about overton etc ) can be more effective more often if they bowl aussie lengths.  ali should have a similar effectiveness to lyon provided he stays didiplined. however , i think starc , Hazelwood and cummins should regularly outbowl the english seamers,  thus allowing aussie ashes victory.....unless more than one of them get injured ( with pattinson  out , we only have coulter nile and behrendoff in reserve ....i dont think bird or sayers would have much impact tbh).

Not an unfair assessment - I would say it slightly more simply, that in the conditions Australia have the bowlers to take wickets throughout the innings, whereas England will struggle when the ball goes old.

You would hope it will be a competitive series, but it's going to be a tough one for England to win.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 09, 2017, 07:58:35 AM
If Stokes is not involved for England to win   unless the ball  reverses   Stuart Broads fitness experience will be the key.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on October 09, 2017, 08:03:25 AM
If Stokes is not involved for England to win   unless the ball  reverses   Stuart Broads fitness experience will be the key.


And his pace needs to be up .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 09, 2017, 08:04:56 AM
Iím expecting a close series perhaps not a classic looking at the players on both sides!
Not expecting Stokes to be involved at all which is a blow for us as far as cricket on the field goes
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on October 09, 2017, 08:17:04 AM
Lehmann has said our allrounder policy at no6 is out the window....potentially opening the door for s.marsh , n.maddinson , t.head etc . I wouldn't mind Head ( fattus should jump all over that comment ! Haha ) in the side , but not the other two. I really hope we pick maxwell or cartwright at 6 .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on October 09, 2017, 08:24:57 AM
I would have thought that the Big Show had probably done enough to be given another shot at six?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on October 09, 2017, 12:09:12 PM
I would have thought that the Big Show had probably done enough to be given another shot at six?


Although , as the incumbent,  he would still be the front runner for the number 6 position,  he hasn't scored a half century in any format for 27 innings . Also , some consider him a slow/turning/subcontinental style pitch specialist re tests ( this is in part to him being considered a batting allrounder /spin option ) . In oz conditions his spin is not nearly as useful or valuable and is essentially challenging for the position just as a specialist batsman , and when you consider australia have dropped their policy of selecting an allrounder at all times , then he no longer is a certainty.  It will be a 'bat off' between all the potential candidates in the first 3 shield games leadibg up to the first test .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: csnew on October 14, 2017, 02:10:06 PM
From the pictures emerging from stokesí wedding his hand doesnít look too good!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on October 17, 2017, 01:23:26 PM
Warner appears to be doing the interview rounds at the moment. Seems to have an unhealthy obsession with Ben. I wonder if they're shaping up excuses in case a miracle happens and we win?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: jamielsn15 on October 17, 2017, 02:00:01 PM
Unless Warner is talking about how to hit a ball very hard a very long way i feel that life is much too short to place any value on what he has to say.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on October 17, 2017, 03:25:11 PM
^LOL
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on October 23, 2017, 05:54:08 AM
I love the way the Oz structure works. Test players/hopefuls turning out for their club side.

https://twitter.com/CricketAus/status/922247411510030336
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: well past my peak on October 23, 2017, 07:41:36 AM
I love the way the Oz structure works. Test players/hopefuls turning out for their club side.

https://twitter.com/CricketAus/status/922247411510030336

Agree, was discussing this on the weekend, unfortunately we had a wash out in Brisbane grade (sorry QLD premier) so didn't get on, but otherwise would had a few current test players taking on the locals, can't think of too many other sports where you get the chance as a good club player to mix it up with the best in the world.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: csnew on October 23, 2017, 08:13:33 AM
I love the way the Oz structure works. Test players/hopefuls turning out for their club side.

https://twitter.com/CricketAus/status/922247411510030336

Playing devil's advocate...How is this any different to a Club cricketer dropping 4 divisions down to smash a bit of easy bowling?
I'm sure the opposition thought the same, what a waste of a Saturday. Only difference is they saw a test player get some easy runs
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on October 23, 2017, 08:26:58 AM
Playing devil's advocate...How is this any different to a Club cricketer dropping 4 divisions down to smash a bit of easy bowling?
I'm sure the opposition thought the same, what a waste of a Saturday. Only difference is they saw a test player get some easy runs


If you are a test player you are a first class player when no tests are being played . If you are a first class player you are a grade player when no first class games are being played . So  a test player with no test or first class cricket to play can play grade .
Or to put it another way ....all players must have a club . They play at the highest grade unless higher honors call. Test players are just first grade players who have been called up to higher honors and are busy with representing their state or country too often to fulfil their grade duties very often . If only it was like the good ol days where those pesky state and national selectors wouldnt pinch players all the time...then internationals would be playing first grade all the time.
Whichever way you look at it , these players belong to a grade club and can play for them as much as they want/are available to do so . If you dont allow them to play where does it stop ? Are state 2nd xl players not allowed either ? Are former test or former first class players not allowed?  If so, what constitutes as 'former' ? 10 yrs ? 20 yrs ? 5 yrs ? 1 day ?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on October 23, 2017, 08:32:31 AM
Playing devil's advocate...How is this any different to a Club cricketer dropping 4 divisions down to smash a bit of easy bowling?
I'm sure the opposition thought the same, what a waste of a Saturday. Only difference is they saw a test player get some easy runs


Or to answer your question another way .....
There are rules that prevent a 1st grade player dropping 4 grades . There are no rules preventing test player dropping down to play for their club ( in fact , it is encouraged whenever possible). So the difference is the rules .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: well past my peak on October 23, 2017, 09:24:27 AM
Pre T20 Gravy train, international players would retire spend a season or two playing state cricket, retire then spend a few years back playing solely club cricket, it was  not uncommon to have  ex-internationals sliding down through the grades helping the young ones come through,
as I said T20 killed that, now players will play for as long as they can in the cash up circus until the body breaks.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on October 23, 2017, 12:21:27 PM
Playing devil's advocate...How is this any different to a Club cricketer dropping 4 divisions down to smash a bit of easy bowling?
I'm sure the opposition thought the same, what a waste of a Saturday. Only difference is they saw a test player get some easy runs


Guess it depends on what discipline you are. I bet watching the ball whistle past your nose is much less fun that watching the ball whistle back over your head to the boundary.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on October 23, 2017, 12:23:03 PM

Guess it depends on what discipline you are. I bet watching the ball whistle past your nose is much less fun that watching the ball whistle back over your head to the boundary.

First one is usually over a bit quicker though.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on October 23, 2017, 03:38:24 PM
Playing devil's advocate...How is this any different to a Club cricketer dropping 4 divisions down to smash a bit of easy bowling?
I'm sure the opposition thought the same, what a waste of a Saturday. Only difference is they saw a test player get some easy runs

I do take your point but i like to think of it the other way round..... the club/grade players get the chance to test themselves against the best, whether it be the ball whistling past their noses or bowling to top quality batters. It is then that you truely find out what you are made of.

Remember, it doesn't always go the way of the pro's.... Maxwell got naff all playing for his club side... got cleaned up after 4 balls... and imagine the feeling that bowler would have got from that.

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 24, 2017, 12:36:06 PM
Anyone else looking forward to a change with BT sport coverage?

We are getting Matt Smith and Alison Mitchell who I think is very good.

On the field Graham gooch called Woakes a fantastic cricketer....can he see what some cannot ?
(http://)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: justnotcricket86 on October 24, 2017, 12:53:56 PM
Not a fan of Alison Mitchell at all, Smith is good though.

Will miss Athers personally, and the occasional 15mins cameo from Bumble.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 24, 2017, 01:24:23 PM
Yes Athers is excellent, very good writer as well for the times
I do think it was getting a bit stale thou with sky
Rumours they were dumping both am and Gower last year proved wrong.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on October 24, 2017, 01:58:30 PM
Not sure how this has reached 36 pages already; I've quite liked nothing thinking about English cricket for 4 weeks since the season ended...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: moonball on October 24, 2017, 02:03:07 PM
And now what is your team / squad without Stokes?

Cook
hammeed
Stoneman
root
malan
stokes
bairstow
ali
woakes
Roland jones
anderson

Squad:

westley
broad
foakes
buttler
wood
crane

squad of 17

yes ive dropped broad but i think TRJ has bowled much more attackingly and looks in much better form at the moment he also hasnt gone at a stupid high run rate either and stregthens the batting which is our weakness too
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 24, 2017, 02:24:21 PM
Trj would def be on the tour but he is out injured which mAkes selection harder
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: justnotcricket86 on October 24, 2017, 02:46:00 PM
Not sure how this has reached 36 pages already; I've quite liked nothing thinking about English cricket for 4 weeks since the season ended...

I think Stokes-gate takes up about 20 of the pages mate.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on October 24, 2017, 03:58:39 PM
I think Stokes-gate takes up about 20 of the pages mate.

Oh I was over that after about 2 days of accepting he's not going to play.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: justnotcricket86 on October 24, 2017, 04:05:21 PM
I was over it when I saw him deck the idiot!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 24, 2017, 06:28:20 PM
Although Stokes will not be travelling with the team it has  not been ruled out that  he will join the tour at some stage.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on October 24, 2017, 06:30:42 PM
Working security I imagine.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on October 25, 2017, 12:06:46 PM
To do what exactly? Punch some more lockers?

Also FWIW I liked Warner's comments about hatred and war, gives the lads something to gee themselves up about
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on October 25, 2017, 12:11:58 PM
To do what exactly? Punch some more lockers?

Also FWIW I liked Warner's comments about hatred and war, gives the lads something to gee themselves up about

Yes, because simply playing in the biggest series in world cricket isn't enough for the "lads" to "gee themselves up about"...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on October 25, 2017, 12:13:08 PM
Nah it's not. Expect some talk, react to it. Simple stuff, really.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on October 25, 2017, 12:27:22 PM
Nah it's not. Expect some talk, react to it. Simple stuff, really.

I've often described Warner as that, yes...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on October 25, 2017, 01:15:59 PM
Id give the left side of my brain to be simple like Warner.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on October 25, 2017, 03:12:55 PM
There's a crayon in my brain? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWiT4jT1NWU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWiT4jT1NWU)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on October 25, 2017, 07:10:12 PM
One for the Aussie Forumites...

I am interested in the below article about Cowan being dropped from the NSW team, it seems as though this has caused quite a big deal in Oz? Smith is saying Daniel Hughes a possible test spot?

https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/cricket/australian-captain-steve-smith-confirms-he-intervened-to-ensure-ed-cowan-was-axed-from-nsw-team/news-story/8b861dd4f15882a99529719f31bedb84
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on October 25, 2017, 08:12:09 PM
One for the Aussie Forumites...

I am interested in the below article about Cowan being dropped from the NSW team, it seems as though this has caused quite a big deal in Oz? Smith is saying Daniel Hughes a possible test spot?

https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/cricket/australian-captain-steve-smith-confirms-he-intervened-to-ensure-ed-cowan-was-axed-from-nsw-team/news-story/8b861dd4f15882a99529719f31bedb84


It is controversial in the sense that Cowan topped the shield in runs last year,  but not in the sense that the average fan either doesnt know , doesnt care , or doesnt think highly of Cowan in the first place .
For me personally,  Cowan is my favourite cricketer , so I'm not happy about it at all .
Re Hughes being a future test player , well thats not impossible,  but i dont think you can judge too accurately at this embryonic stage of his career . I haven't seen anything yet to suggest he's any better , or worse, than a dozen or so peripheral players .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on October 25, 2017, 09:52:41 PM
When I first saw the story I assumed that this Hughes lad was a young wondered who'd not managed to get consistently picked yet, Mason Crane at Hampshire kind of situation perhaps. Just looked... he's 28?! I know nothing about the bloke, but I'd hazard a good guess that if he can't get in his state team at 28 then I doubt the thought of bowling to him is keeping Anderson and Broad up at night. Something smells bad, what's going on?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on October 27, 2017, 03:37:24 PM
KP is so supportive!

http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21169831 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21169831)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: shadowlight on October 27, 2017, 06:50:33 PM
Is there a way to listen to Ashes via some streaming service for folks in US?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on October 27, 2017, 07:03:40 PM
KP is so supportive!

[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21169831[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21169831[/url])


But is he wrong?!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 27, 2017, 07:19:36 PM
But is he wrong?!


Yes he is, absolutely wrong. We(England) are not great, but neither are the Aussies.Stokes is a massive blow if he does not tour(I think the ECB are about to announce he is not going because the police investigation is taking a long time)

We got world class players, but not many of them, the Aussies have about the same as us.

Australian bowling probably better than ours, our batting has more depth.

Could be close, I think thou to be honest, cook,root,Stoneman, and bairstow are going to have to score very heavy.

And Chris woakes needs a very good tour, he has it in him..... :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: t2ylo on October 27, 2017, 08:45:56 PM
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4784329/ben-stokes-praised-by-gay-couple-after-defending-them-from-homophobic-thugs/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4784329/ben-stokes-praised-by-gay-couple-after-defending-them-from-homophobic-thugs/)

This may change things...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on October 27, 2017, 08:51:59 PM
^ Good! This could exonerate him! But please Benji, no more late outings during Ashes.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on October 27, 2017, 08:53:45 PM
But is he wrong?!

I feel there is a lot of exaggeration about England's weaknesses! Team Aus hasn't been that hot lately and it is certainly NOT the 2013 Aus team. I say England has a shot, with our w/out Stokes.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 27, 2017, 09:15:35 PM
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4784329/ben-stokes-praised-by-gay-couple-after-defending-them-from-homophobic-thugs/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4784329/ben-stokes-praised-by-gay-couple-after-defending-them-from-homophobic-thugs/)

This may change things...

It could indeed. They have finally come forward, odd looking pair of blokes!. The Sun has this story and it was the Sun that published the video...I dunno, something  seems a bit odd can't quite put my finger on it.

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Rob580 on October 27, 2017, 10:05:11 PM
odd looking pair of blokes!

I wouldn't say too much more, Ben might come over and chin you!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: well past my peak on October 27, 2017, 10:20:33 PM
KP is so supportive!

[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21169831[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21169831[/url])


doesn't hold back does he, I agree with what he said but as a ex-player would not make my opinion public.
As for stokes, as an Aussie/cricket supporter I would love to see him available to play, when we beat you we want to know it's the best team England can put on the park.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on October 27, 2017, 10:33:33 PM
I dont know how a pair of grateful gay blokes changes stokes actions. The timing makes it very obvious just how staged and coached the response will be. But again, this is all just part of massaging stokes through to the ashes. Ecb will have everyone from lawyers to pr working on this. See you soon stokes!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on October 28, 2017, 08:31:18 AM
Interesting looking wicket at the GABBA....

http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42109/news (http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42109/news)

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mdg20 on October 28, 2017, 10:16:51 AM
Iím not convinced by anything those two blokes have said. The whole bump and grind thing to say hello is ridiculous. The fact they just casually walk off to leave stokes defending their honour to go and get chips, the timing is all very convenient. The fact it happens to be the sun who have the exclusive again. I also refuse to believe that Ben Stokes can be described as ďFitĒ 😂
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: well past my peak on October 28, 2017, 10:24:37 AM
Interesting looking wicket at the GABBA....

[url]http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42109/news[/url] ([url]http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42109/news[/url])

standard Gabba deck don't be fool with the slight tingle of green, it's fast with nice carry, if you get yourself in runs will flow.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: csnew on October 28, 2017, 12:01:52 PM
Also found the article from the sun odd...lacking details about the incident itself yet they can remember Ben asking them where they were going.
Went for chips when they were about to get bottled hmm
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 28, 2017, 01:10:20 PM
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4784329/ben-stokes-praised-by-gay-couple-after-defending-them-from-homophobic-thugs/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4784329/ben-stokes-praised-by-gay-couple-after-defending-them-from-homophobic-thugs/)

This may change things...

If the article is correct it can only help Stokes protecting the innocents and all that as for getting the chips in the guys say themselves fights and fast food is  what they are used to all part of a night out in Bristol.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 28, 2017, 01:30:42 PM
Yes he is, absolutely wrong. We(England) are not great, but neither are the Aussies.Stokes is a massive blow if he does not tour(I think the ECB are about to announce he is not going because the police investigation is taking a long time)

We got world class players, but not many of them, the Aussies have about the same as us.

Australian bowling probably better than ours, our batting has more depth.

Could be close, I think thou to be honest, cook,root,Stoneman, and bairstow are going to have to score very heavy.

And Chris woakes needs a very good tour, he has it in him..... :)
Couldnt agree more particuarly regarding Woakes  England cant leave it to Anderson and Broad  especally now if theres  no Stokes can he deliver match winning bowling for England  in oz hope he can but not  convinced
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on October 28, 2017, 01:46:17 PM
Bit odd to me the sun got access to the CCTV and then find two witnesses the police were looking for but couldnít find
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 28, 2017, 04:50:08 PM
Bit odd to me the sun got access to the CCTV and then find two witnesses the police were looking for but couldnít find

Yes! That's what I was thinking, they come forward in the press the day of the press conference to leave for Oz..

I dunno something is not right here, maybe I'm off on the wrong road but it seems a bit weird, the Sun seems to have all the exclusives in a modern world of social media where not much can be kept secret.

Supposedly the police will make an announcement next week about he case, if that's the two guys have been found and will back stokes up, it's a bit late now.

Whatever happens it appears there is something Stokes and his legal team can grip onto, and no doubt they will.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Buzz on October 28, 2017, 05:30:04 PM
Just be the by the time limit for the coppers to charge Stokes has passed so unless there is new evidence he will be on the plane.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: LateBloomer on October 28, 2017, 05:32:02 PM
Shock Horror! There is corruption within the Britsh Judicial and Legal systems! I never would have believed it

Lets be honest - if Tony Blair can still go about his business, the bankers who gambled other peoples hard earned cash are still counting their earnings and Piers Morgan is free to chat (No Swearing Please) to whoever is lonely enough to listen then the least we can do is embrace the corruption and get that lad Stokes on the plane. What he has done is nothing in comparison to Illegal Wars and Phone Hacking.

If these two gay lads coming forward (no pun intended) lead to Stokes being involved with the Test matches I will wear a rainbow vest and denim hot pants to the WACA. Go on the fake gays!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on October 28, 2017, 06:07:16 PM
Yes! That's what I was thinking, they come forward in the press the day of the press conference to leave for Oz..

I dunno something is not right here, maybe I'm off on the wrong road but it seems a bit weird, the Sun seems to have all the exclusives in a modern world of social media where not much can be kept secret.

Supposedly the police will make an announcement next week about he case, if that's the two guys have been found and will back stokes up, it's a bit late now.

Whatever happens it appears there is something Stokes and his legal team can grip onto, and no doubt they will.

Money talks... They sold their story.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 28, 2017, 06:50:34 PM
I'm sure you are right Woody. I often wonder if we have any journalists on the forum who know how the press works, I'm not talking financial times correspondent, I mean daily star, Sunday sport, you know really grass roots scandal down-in-the-dirt white Mac and camera sort.

 :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: JB on October 28, 2017, 07:04:08 PM
I'm sure you are right Woody. I often wonder if we have any journalists on the forum who know how the press works, I'm not talking financial times correspondent, I mean daily star, Sunday sport, you know really grass roots scandal down-in-the-dirt white Mac and camera sort.

 :)

You mean the pond life?  :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: JB on October 28, 2017, 07:04:39 PM
Saying that Iíd love a job at the Sunday sport!!!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: joeljonno on October 28, 2017, 07:20:56 PM
Is there a way to listen to Ashes via some streaming service for folks in US?

Itíll be on TMS with the BBC. Youíll probably be able to listen directly through the BBC website or maybe their app.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on October 28, 2017, 07:36:21 PM
Shock Horror! There is corruption within the Britsh Judicial and Legal systems! I never would have believed it

Lets be honest - if Tony Blair can still go about his business, the bankers who gambled other peoples hard earned cash are still counting their earnings and Piers Morgan is free to chat (No Swearing Please) to whoever is lonely enough to listen then the least we can do is embrace the corruption and get that lad Stokes on the plane. What he has done is nothing in comparison to Illegal Wars and Phone Hacking.

If these two gay lads coming forward (no pun intended) lead to Stokes being involved with the Test matches I will wear a rainbow vest and denim hot pants to the WACA. Go on the fake gays!



If you do wear a rainbow vest and denim hot pants just remember the usual forum rules - it didnt happen /doesnt exist without photos , detailed specs are mandatory,  and InternalTraining  will need to know if its got a bow and a thick toe !  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: shadowlight on October 28, 2017, 08:45:07 PM
Itíll be on TMS with the BBC. Youíll probably be able to listen directly through the BBC website or maybe their app.

Thank you.  Hopefully BBC will not restrict it based on geolocation.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: DorsetDan on October 28, 2017, 08:58:43 PM
Thank you.  Hopefully BBC will not restrict it based on geolocation.

VPN gets around that
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Calzehbhoy on October 28, 2017, 09:10:07 PM
No Country restrictions on live bbc radio I donít think. Always get people having a mention on TMS from some obscure location around the world.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on October 29, 2017, 04:58:52 AM
Well , after a round of shield games no batsmen have really grabbed a hold of the number 6 spot , although cartwright did ok with a 60 odd . Khawaja's place was always safe but nice to see him get a ton . And the keepers spot is still debatable too.
Probably the best thing this round was Starc getting 8for with the pink ball at Adelaide. ....looks like anderson and woakes wont be the only guys reaking havoc during the Adelaide test....although I'd love to see sayers given a go with the new ball there while hazlewood sits out for one test.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on October 29, 2017, 07:38:02 AM
Well , after a round of shield games no batsmen have really grabbed a hold of the number 6 spot , although cartwright did ok with a 60 odd . Khawaja's place was always safe but nice to see him get a ton . And the keepers spot is still debatable too.
Probably the best thing this round was Starc getting 8for with the pink ball at Adelaide. ....looks like anderson and woakes wont be the only guys reaking havoc during the Adelaide test....although I'd love to see sayers given a go with the new ball there while hazlewood sits out for one test.


Yep it's really interesting being able to watch the Shield games to see how the Aussies are going etc...

Cricket Australia website has loads of great video links to matches if you fancy watching...

http://www.cricket.com.au/ (http://www.cricket.com.au/)

Ominous viewing below - Starcs wickets including an absolute nut to get Travis Head 1st ball.

http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42110/news (http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42110/news)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on October 29, 2017, 08:11:14 AM
Yep it's really interesting being able to watch the Shield games to see how the Aussies are going etc...

Cricket Australia website has loads of great video links to matches if you fancy watching...

[url]http://www.cricket.com.au/[/url] ([url]http://www.cricket.com.au/[/url])

Ominous viewing below - Starcs wickets including an absolute nut to get Travis Head 1st ball.

[url]http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42110/news[/url] ([url]http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42110/news[/url])



Yeah i was kinda peeved that the domestic one dayers were only on the website instead of on tv... but the massive upside has been to be able to watch shield games for the first time in years .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: cricketbadger on October 29, 2017, 09:32:11 AM
Sayers has been  a stand out for the last 3 years in Shield cricket but unfortunately for him he doesnt play for NSW.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on October 29, 2017, 09:50:37 AM
Has the Aussie selection principal changed in the last few years? The system where the captain did not get involved in selection appears to be not worth the paper it is written on.

Clarke faced the same NSW favourites policy and it appears Smith does now. I can recall Clarke fell  out with selectors at the end as he was not getting the team he wanted?

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on November 01, 2017, 05:02:01 PM
Quite funny from Finn...

https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/925641472673591296
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on November 02, 2017, 07:27:40 AM
A great start.. Mo and Finn going for scans on injuries and won't be available for the 1st warm-up match.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/11/02/england-injury-scares-steven-finn-moeen-ali-head-scans-will/amp/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/11/02/england-injury-scares-steven-finn-moeen-ali-head-scans-will/amp/)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 02, 2017, 08:09:13 AM
Donít panic lads, vince donít think the ball will move about batting at 3 and gaz balance could be number 5
Anyone else get the feeling the wheels might come off this tour ?
 :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 02, 2017, 08:11:06 AM
Donít panic lads, vince donít think the ball will move about batting at 3 and gaz balance could be number 5
Anyone else get the feeling the wheels might come off this tour ?
 :)

Looking at the squad we've taken over, were the wheels ever on?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on November 02, 2017, 08:20:07 AM
Im actually fairly confident to be honest.. If we bowl in the right areas they can fall just as quickly. Besides Warner and Smith i can't name a solid batting line up. England have Cook Root Ali Bairstow..and even Woakes is a happy hooker so he might enjoy himself.

Don't see why anyone can be bothered by bouncers anyway, if you're not comfortable dont play it, they cant get you out then
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 02, 2017, 09:29:27 AM
Im actually fairly confident to be honest.. If we bowl in the right areas they can fall just as quickly. Besides Warner and Smith i can't name a solid batting line up. England have Cook Root Ali Bairstow..and even Woakes is a happy hooker so he might enjoy himself.

Don't see why anyone can be bothered by bouncers anyway, if you're not comfortable dont play it, they cant get you out then


Plenty of non hookers have been dismissed via defending bouncers to various parts of the body, self preservation style.....do i really need to direct people to the cricket australia website to view all of Mitchell Johnson's dismissals from last ashes in oz ?

Also , as ive said before , english fans will see the arrival of Handscomb as a test batsman of note . Khawaja will make plenty of runs and Renshaw wont do any worse than whoever opens with cook ( will probably do much better tbh ).
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 02, 2017, 09:37:08 AM

Plenty of non hookers have been dismissed via defending bouncers to various parts of the body, self preservation style.....do i really need to direct people to the cricket australia website to view all of Mitchell Johnson's dismissals from last ashes in oz ?

Also , as ive said before , english fans will see the arrival of Handscomb as a test batsman of note . Khawaja will make plenty of runs and Renshaw wont do any worse than whoever opens with cook ( will probably do much better tbh ).



You know how so many people look at smith's technique and never cease to be amazed by how successful he is ? Well , get ready to have similar thoughts re Handscomb  (relatively speaking of course , im not saying he will be an instant world beater). People will be endlessly intrigued by someone standing so deep in their crease that when they play without moving they are still further back than anyone taking the largest of backfoot movements . They will also be intrigued by him batting on the crease  , playing forward , using his feet to spin , and think Handscomb facing spin is a completely different technique/batsman to the version that faces pace. He will be effective .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: FattusCattus on November 02, 2017, 09:46:24 AM
We'll win the series with only a few of the players consistently contributing.

Cook, Stoneman, Root, JB, Mo, Woakes and Jimmy

Foakes will be in the side before the end of the series and will do well.
Crane will play 1 test and take wickets
Broad won't last the tour
Malan will start poorly and then make a spectacular score in about the 3rd test
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on November 02, 2017, 09:46:53 AM
Aussie batting line up has been much better since the got a couple of English blokes into it.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 02, 2017, 09:53:59 AM
Aussie batting line up has been much better since the got a couple of English bloke into it.


I always thought aussies taking the piss out of england for having so many o.s players ( particularly saffas) was sooo yawn inducingly boring and irrelevant.  I  think the same now .
But if you want to know the background of the player who will have by far most influence on the ashes  ....its Croatian.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on November 02, 2017, 10:13:37 AM

I always thought aussies taking the piss out of england for having so many o.s players ( particularly saffas) was sooo yawn inducingly boring and irrelevant.  I  think the same now .
But if you want to know the background of the player who will have by far most influence on the ashes  ....its Croatian.
Simon Katich is coming out of retirement?!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Rob580 on November 02, 2017, 10:26:57 AM


You know how so many people look at smith's technique and never cease to be amazed by how successful he is ? Well , get ready to have similar thoughts re Handscomb  (relatively speaking of course , im not saying he will be an instant world beater). People will be endlessly intrigued by someone standing so deep in their crease that when they play without moving they are still further back than anyone taking the largest of backfoot movements . They will also be intrigued by him batting on the crease  , playing forward , using his feet to spin , and think Handscomb facing spin is a completely different technique/batsman to the version that faces pace. He will be effective .


You've basically just described Gary Ballance.....
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 02, 2017, 10:46:14 AM
Simon Katich is coming out of retirement?!



Yep , and he'll be bowling southpaw thunderbolts !
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 02, 2017, 10:49:09 AM

You've basically just described Gary Ballance.....


Gaz tries to get on the front foot from that position or , weight wise, plays 'playing from the crease'  shots, whereas Handscomb plays true backfoot shots from those positions .
But thats fine , we'll compare handscombs and ballances averages at the end of the ashes and see who was more effective then .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 02, 2017, 11:38:20 AM
Eurgh
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Rob580 on November 02, 2017, 12:14:00 PM

Gaz tries to get on the front foot from that position or , weight wise, plays 'playing from the crease'  shots, whereas Handscomb plays true backfoot shots from those positions .
But thats fine , we'll compare handscombs and ballances averages at the end of the ashes and see who was more effective then .

Deal, as long as we can include the comparison for the Aussie 6, 7 & 8 against Bairstow, Ali & Woakes.  ;)

With any luck Ballance won't play a game, even if he does, he'll just be facing Lyon & whatever no-one allrounder they pick for Number 6 with Cummins, Starc & Hazlewood looking on from the Physio Table....  :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on November 02, 2017, 01:52:55 PM
Oh good. I was getting kind of bored of the forum "You'll win, we're rubbish. No, you'll win, we're rubbish" niceties.

Let the best POHMS win!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on November 02, 2017, 02:02:49 PM

I always thought aussies taking the piss out of england for having so many o.s players ( particularly saffas) was sooo yawn inducingly boring and irrelevant.  I  think the same now .
But if you want to know the background of the player who will have by far most influence on the ashes  ....its Croatian.
Len Pascoe?

It was pretty tounge in cheek. As a half German Scotsman supporting England from Norway I don't give too much value to nationality.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on November 02, 2017, 02:30:40 PM
@Biggie Smalls firstly why qoute yourself when you posted the previous one.. Secondly you mossed the point completely
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 03, 2017, 12:34:41 AM
@Biggie Smalls firstly why qoute yourself when you posted the previous one.. Secondly you mossed the point completely


Its like tagging on extra info / t.b.c etc .....wouldnt make much sense if i just replied and someone else had posted in the interim ( my post wouldnt have been the last one then).

If ive mossed the point , sorry , but it sounded like oz have just two batsmen and if you dont play hooks you wont get out to bouncers ....if thats way off the mark you can always clarify , no ?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 03, 2017, 06:31:26 AM
Nov 4th western australian xl vs england to be televised on bt sport .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mattdawson on November 03, 2017, 11:33:08 AM
Nov 4th western australian xl vs england to be televised on bt sport .


where did you find that? I checked bt sport tv guide for a start time, but no mention of it?

http://sport.bt.com/tv-guide-01363810618853 (http://sport.bt.com/tv-guide-01363810618853)

unless im blind (quite probably  :D)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 03, 2017, 11:37:45 AM
where did you find that? I checked bt sport tv guide for a start time, but no mention of it?

[url]http://sport.bt.com/tv-guide-01363810618853[/url] ([url]http://sport.bt.com/tv-guide-01363810618853[/url])

unless im blind (quite probably  :D)



On cricket australia website it was promoting the stream on the site and stated it was unavailable to u.k and n.z , but u.k could watch it on bt sport.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on November 03, 2017, 11:39:26 AM

Its like tagging on extra info / t.b.c etc .....wouldnt make much sense if i just replied and someone else had posted in the interim ( my post wouldnt have been the last one then).

If ive mossed the point , sorry , but it sounded like oz have just two batsmen and if you dont play hooks you wont get out to bouncers ....if thats way off the mark you can always clarify , no ?

The comment on woakes was slightly unrelated to the first part, he pulls well so i dont think he would be overly troubled. But there's been alot of england batsman fending off bouncers and getting out. All im saying here is dont play it all and you can't get out.

Linked in with Sachins series of no Cover drives, kept getting out playing it so decided not to play it. Its simple really.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Rob580 on November 03, 2017, 12:14:11 PM
The comment on woakes was slightly unrelated to the first part, he pulls well so i dont think he would be overly troubled. But there's been alot of england batsman fending off bouncers and getting out. All im saying here is dont play it all and you can't get out.

Linked in with Sachins series of no Cover drives, kept getting out playing it so decided not to play it. Its simple really.

I'd like to see it being 'simple' & 'easy' when someone is smashing it in half-way down at you at 90mph at the Gabba!

I get your point, but I think you might be underplaying some bowling skill here.

Anyway, here's one for the Aussies, who are you hoping will be picked at 6 and to keep wicket?

As a Pom I'd like to see Cartwright/Maxwell and Wade, but as a cricket fan I'd quite like to see Stoinis and Nevill, Stoinis looks like a decent allrounder and has a bit of something about him. Nevill is obviously the better gloveman, and I can't really see much between their batting, Wade gets hyped up because he's a mouthy so and so behind the stumps, and Smith likes that....
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on November 03, 2017, 12:23:05 PM
Maybe i am but its not like it cant be replicated evem with bowlers theres always matting that can be experimented with that can speed up the surface
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: csnew on November 03, 2017, 12:35:25 PM
Finn and ali to miss the first 2 warm up games. Tours already a shambles
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on November 03, 2017, 01:01:51 PM
Finn and ali to miss the first 2 warm up games. Tours already a shambles
Get Samit on an effin plane! Finn, may sound harsh but who gives, if it gets to the point where he's playing then we're (No Swearing Please) anyway.

Re. the Aussie side - thought Cartwright looked a decent player in his first test? Haven't seen him since mind. As for the keeper, surely Australia can produce someone who can both catch and bat? Or at least pick a bloke who can do one of the two rather than picking someone purely on their ability to be a dick. Smith seems to have forgotten Brad Haddin was an adequate test cricketer in addition to being an utter plonker.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 03, 2017, 01:19:36 PM
Indeed ...I was just thinking if Ali is unfit who is our frontline spinner?
Iím sure itís just a precaution but you never know.

Iím voting Samit too.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Mr_Orange on November 03, 2017, 02:44:50 PM
Interesting from Cricinfo. You'd imagine Ball would have the more likely chance of playing based on him being more regular in the set up recently.

"The most intense competition for places would appear to be between Jake Ball and Craig Overton for the final seam-bowling spot and Dawid Malan and Gary Ballance for the No. 5 batting spot. At present, it seems Overton and Malan have their noses in front but a persuasive performance over the weekend could yet sway things."
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Rob580 on November 03, 2017, 03:04:58 PM
Interesting from Cricinfo. You'd imagine Ball would have the more likely chance of playing based on him being more regular in the set up recently.

"The most intense competition for places would appear to be between Jake Ball and Craig Overton for the final seam-bowling spot and Dawid Malan and Gary Ballance for the No. 5 batting spot. At present, it seems Overton and Malan have their noses in front but a persuasive performance over the weekend could yet sway things."

Supposedly Overton's ability to field at Slip for the Spinner (vacated by Stokes) and batting prowess have pushed him up the pecking order.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 03, 2017, 04:10:32 PM
Supposedly Overton's ability to field at Slip for the Spinner (vacated by Stokes) and batting prowess have pushed him up the pecking order.

Iíd actually like to see Overton picked I think he could cause real problems and I donít think heíd back down when the verbals start, Iím expecting him to possibly start them tbh! Seems in the stokes character mould hopefully without the rocky balboa gene though!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Sam on November 03, 2017, 05:34:17 PM
Nov 4th western australian xl vs england to be televised on bt sport .

Just got in touch with them through live chat on their website and they said they won't be showing it on a channel or through an online stream so looks like it's not going to be viewable in the UK unless anyone else has any ideas?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: cricketbadger on November 03, 2017, 10:18:29 PM
Would Ali really be much of a threat in the series anyway on their decks? I see him as just trying to tie up an end whilst the quick at rotated, if that's the case surely Samit would be up to that task anyway, even Root at a push for more than his usual couple of overs maybe?? Samit offers with the bat too to make up for Ali not playing.

Hope Overton get the nod be good to see a young tall quickie let loose, slightly unknown to the Aussies compared to the other options so may bode well in our favour.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 03, 2017, 10:45:30 PM
Well...in the past the wickets have been good for batting, lots of sun and clear skies often means it's hard work for the medium pacers(we don't have anyone quick, the Aussies do thou).

Wouldn't be surprised at all if Mo got as many wickets, or was at least up there, with broad and Anderson.

The tour before the thrashing last time, tremlett and Bresnan won us a couple of games when it did move around a bit.

Our bowling can be a bit ordinary on flat pitches, if we had picked Samit could of been an option.

Makes no sense to me he is not on the tour-and nothing to do with stokes going or not going. I think Lyon will do well also, because we don't have really high class players of spin on the tour. Root and Cook are pretty good. Stoneman, Malan,ballance,Vince? Not sure about Vince and Malan, Ballance I've watched before and not great against the turning ball.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 04, 2017, 07:32:17 AM
Tibetan and vince with a pair of 80s over night
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 04, 2017, 07:40:54 AM
Not a bad start balance and malan both in the side maybe fighting for no 5- Dawid played the last tests thou..
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: csnew on November 04, 2017, 07:57:52 AM
Looks like WA is giving everyone a bowl, 8 bowlers used so far. Runs against a few part timers it seems
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 04, 2017, 08:08:33 AM
Malan and ballance into the 40s

Might be against part timers but root and cook failed so good Time isnít he middle for those 4 will boost confidence
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 04, 2017, 08:58:21 AM
stoneman and vince with 80s, malan and ballance with 50s...if you had to pick four guys to make runs in the first innings on tour it would have been those guys.
pitch looks pretty good for batting , bowling attack looks rather ho hum apart from ncn (but as expected we werent nice enough to select a proper w.a side). still, good hit out for the eng batsmen and a solid way to start the tour.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mattdawson on November 04, 2017, 09:00:19 AM
Irrespective of opposition, i think for the first warm up match everyone would rather see those 4 score runs to stake their claim, rather than a failure and the usual 2  score?

It gives a boost to those that scored, increases competition in the squad, relieves a tiny bit of pressure on AC,JR, even JB to some extent that they have to score
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Hoover on November 04, 2017, 09:01:31 AM
WA playing a Shield Match v NSW in Sydney...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 04, 2017, 09:16:43 AM
Gaz at #6. Touch me
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 04, 2017, 09:19:56 AM
bairstow has raced to 31 from 28 ( he hit 4 4s in the last over). he looks in fine touch (always looks in good nick when he plays his late cut well). Woakes 11 from 37 looks in good ,steady nick too.

This is the type of good form i want to see from england before the first test.  particularly post stokesgate , i really want to see  england firing - to make a good tight ,close series . It will feel much better if Australia manage to win the series against a well performed side and not a rabble that wasn't able to get it together after all the recent dramas.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: 19reading87 on November 04, 2017, 09:30:38 AM
Balance batting at 6 is excellent! Heíll score a lot of runs there
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Nmcgee on November 04, 2017, 09:51:00 AM
Dear o dear. Gary Ballance is an appalling international cricketer. I'm not sure how many failures he needs for you guys to wake up. Practice games don't count.

On the other hand, Mo Ali is possibly the most underrated international cricketer in the world. I think he will play very well in the Ashes.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on November 04, 2017, 09:51:41 AM
Maybe we are going to pack the batting and go in without a specialist spinner if Moeen is out? Malan bowls a bit of Chinaman,plus root can turn his arm over for a few.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on November 04, 2017, 10:21:29 AM
Just reading some of the early reports and although it is great to see the new guys in the runs what the scorecard doesn't say is Vince was dropped 4 times and twice were in the slips after the usual woft outside off stump  :( :(
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: greeny on November 04, 2017, 10:54:00 AM
Just seen the replay of Root's wicket. Clearly came off the back leg. Nowhere near the bat! Needless to say he wasn't very happy...!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on November 04, 2017, 10:54:53 AM
Just seen the replay of Root's wicket. Clearly came off the back leg. Nowhere near the bat! Needless to say he wasn't very happy...!


Are there any highlights available?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 04, 2017, 10:59:50 AM
Just reading some of the early reports and although it is great to see the new guys in the runs what the scorecard doesn't say is Vince was dropped 4 times and twice were in the slips after the usual woft outside off stump  :( :(

If vince hits 100 in the first innings of the series and is dropped 5 times... what will we all be talking about the hundred or the drops, they all look the same in the book! He has runs under his belt and thatís what matters nice little confidence boost especially facing coulter Nile with an early wicket
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Hoover on November 04, 2017, 11:06:53 AM

Are there any highlights available?

http://www.cricket.com.au/video/england-wa-xi-video-highlights-match-report-mark-stoneman-james-vince-dawid-malan/2017-11-04 (http://www.cricket.com.au/video/england-wa-xi-video-highlights-match-report-mark-stoneman-james-vince-dawid-malan/2017-11-04)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on November 04, 2017, 11:13:30 AM
Cheers @Hoover
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on November 04, 2017, 11:14:04 AM
If vince hits 100 in the first innings of the series and is dropped 5 times... what will we all be talking about the hundred or the drops, they all look the same in the book! He has runs under his belt and thatís what matters nice little confidence boost especially facing coulter Nile with an early wicket

Yes agreed it is a nice confidence boost and i would also take a 100 no matter how it comes, all i am pointing out is that Vince is still doing what he was doing when he was dropped and i also don't see the Aussie slip cordon dropping those catches.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Hoover on November 04, 2017, 11:17:02 AM
Just for your info.
WA team is full of State U19 and "Futures League " ( the old 2nd xi) players, all First Grade Club players. Voges, Mitchell Johnson and Stewie Walters all declined playing. All 6 First Class teams are playing Shield matches. WA Futures League start a 4 dayer on Monday so all in all the young guys have done pretty well given the selection restrictions.Also it is the second day of 2 day grade cricket so they couldn't pick all the best players. They should go ok with the bat as there is some decent players there.



Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: t2ylo on November 04, 2017, 11:17:17 AM
[url]http://www.cricket.com.au/video/england-wa-xi-video-highlights-match-report-mark-stoneman-james-vince-dawid-malan/2017-11-04[/url] ([url]http://www.cricket.com.au/video/england-wa-xi-video-highlights-match-report-mark-stoneman-james-vince-dawid-malan/2017-11-04[/url])


Thanks mate
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: well past my peak on November 04, 2017, 11:20:52 AM
Great day for England, selectors got a good look at all the question marks,
most test teams which come here look pretty ordinary in the warm up, but the poms look good today
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 04, 2017, 12:43:16 PM
Malan bowls a bit of Chinaman

He does?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: it's_a_pudding on November 04, 2017, 01:13:06 PM
Hoping Calum How goes well for WA team was our overseas a couple of years back. Great bloke and very talented scored 1000 runs in Yorkshire Prem league when he was 17 for us. Looks like Root got a poor decision but steady start for England boys shame they couldn't convert to hundreds!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on November 04, 2017, 01:26:13 PM
Cook lasted two balls!! What is going there?! Sheesh!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 04, 2017, 03:03:10 PM
With regard to Stokes Just been reading the write up of the two footballers who were involved in a late night fight and a guy recieved a broken jaw one has community service and the other a fine so if Stokes is found to be guilty maybe  simular will happen.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 04, 2017, 03:53:35 PM
With regard to Stokes Just been reading the write up of the two footballers who were involved in a late night fight and a guy recieved a broken jaw one has community service and the other a fine so if Stokes is found to be guilty maybe  simular will happen.

Fingers crossed it's a fine and he can get on the soonest flight to Australia then!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on November 04, 2017, 05:05:26 PM
Surely keeping the providing thrilling entertainment for the less intellectual folk down under is enough community service?

On a serious note he does alot in the community anyway so the judge should consider that and only issue a fine because community service wouldn't be a punishment
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: jamesisapayne on November 04, 2017, 11:15:07 PM
Anyone know if there's a live stream of the practice match available anywhere?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: well past my peak on November 05, 2017, 12:12:20 AM
Anyone know if there's a live stream of the practice match available anywhere?


http://live.cricket.com.au/#/1974/41917/overview (http://live.cricket.com.au/#/1974/41917/overview)
free subscription and works in Aus not sure about outside
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: FattusCattus on November 05, 2017, 09:01:34 AM
Any views on how we have bowled?

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on November 05, 2017, 09:08:00 AM
They are 300-8. Jimmy only has 4, because he's (No Swearing Please) anywhere but england
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on November 05, 2017, 09:09:33 AM
Any views on how we have bowled?

Anderson with 4 wickets, Overton & Crane 2 each and 1 for broad. WA 319-9. From sky write up bowled ok seems to be what they are saying most of top 6 of there line up got a start
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on November 05, 2017, 09:12:06 AM
Espn say Ball got the other not Broad
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on November 05, 2017, 09:20:51 AM
Espn say Ball got the other not Broad

My bad my not have been broad then
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 05, 2017, 11:53:27 AM
i watched until wa were 1-120. eng bowling too short or too full. Philipe was looking very comfortable at about 85 at a run a ball.
Eng must have adjusted lengths after 1st session or perhaps got the ball reversing a bit.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Nmcgee on November 06, 2017, 05:10:27 AM
Mitchell Starc just took a hat trick against the WA tail and gave SA a cricket lesson last week. Form looks solid.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: well past my peak on November 06, 2017, 06:39:53 AM
Mitchell Starc just took a hat trick against the WA tail and gave SA a cricket lesson last week. Form looks solid.


hope the poms pack their steel toe cap boots
http://www.cricket.com.au/news/match-report/nsw-blues-wa-warriors-day-three-sheffield-shield-live-nevill-cartwright-smith-warner-cummins-starc/2017-11-06 (http://www.cricket.com.au/news/match-report/nsw-blues-wa-warriors-day-three-sheffield-shield-live-nevill-cartwright-smith-warner-cummins-starc/2017-11-06)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on November 06, 2017, 07:04:37 AM
hope the poms pack their steel toe cap boots
[url]http://www.cricket.com.au/news/match-report/nsw-blues-wa-warriors-day-three-sheffield-shield-live-nevill-cartwright-smith-warner-cummins-starc/2017-11-06[/url] ([url]http://www.cricket.com.au/news/match-report/nsw-blues-wa-warriors-day-three-sheffield-shield-live-nevill-cartwright-smith-warner-cummins-starc/2017-11-06[/url])


Seeing Starc clean up tailenders is not new news. I would argue the more obinious signs were Hazelwood's opening spell 1st game back after injury. Getting both Marsh brothers and Cartright for nothing.

http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42111/news (http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42111/news)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: well past my peak on November 06, 2017, 09:58:35 AM
Seeing Starc clean up tailenders is not new news. I would argue the more obinious signs were Hazelwood's opening spell 1st game back after injury. Getting both Marsh brothers and Cartright for nothing.

[url]http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42111/news[/url] ([url]http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42111/news[/url])


not a bad attack, NSW
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on November 06, 2017, 03:46:04 PM
not a bad attack, NSW

They've got a pretty good side full stop at full strength let alone the attack
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: it's_a_pudding on November 07, 2017, 09:16:18 AM
So it's just been announced Finn will miss the ashes. Who do you think should replace him? For me must be Plunkett or Wood
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Nmcgee on November 07, 2017, 09:24:13 AM
And Starc takes his SECOND hat trick for the match. Good signs heading into the first test.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Neon Cricket on November 07, 2017, 09:26:46 AM
I'd presume it'll be Plunkett, most like for like replacement.

Wouldn't grumble if Jamie Porter got a call up though - definitely one for the future if his 2017 stats are anything to go by.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on November 07, 2017, 09:33:23 AM
So it's just been announced Finn will miss the ashes. Who do you think should replace him? For me must be Plunkett or Wood

Ben Stokes?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on November 07, 2017, 09:44:36 AM
And Starc takes his SECOND hat trick for the match. Good signs heading into the first test.

Impressive stuff but aren't they pretty much all tailenders (his victimsover the two hat tricks have a combined average of around 60), something England aren't like to have more than a couple of in their 11?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Neon Cricket on November 07, 2017, 09:48:04 AM
Ben Stokes?

Nothing will change whilst the case is ongoing, and the CPS aren't going to speed things along for the sake of England Cricket. They're notorious for taking their time and the more Strauss and co keep kicking up a fuss the longer they'll likely take (just yesterday Strauss was doing yet another press release regarding the situation).

Stokes has about as much chance of playing in the first test as I do... lol
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Mr_Orange on November 07, 2017, 09:53:30 AM
Team for the 1st Class warm up game announced too.

Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root, Malan, Bairstow, Woakes, Overton, Ball, Crane, Anderson

Broad rested and Ali injured, so depending on how this game goes I would think the Brisbane test will be this with Ali for Crane and Broad for Ball/Overton
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on November 07, 2017, 09:55:28 AM
Wouldn't grumble if Jamie Porter got a call up though - definitely one for the future if his 2017 stats are anything to go by.

I would, he's got a stress fracture to his back, likely beck for the start of the county season I'd guess.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mattdawson on November 07, 2017, 09:57:42 AM
I'd hope it'll be Wood I think he offers something different to Broad and Woakes, but I doubt he will be able to stay fit with his biscuit bones. So I presume it'll be Plunkett.

*Edit*
Scrap that because about Wood, hes not fit enough to be considered apparently and plunkett isnt with the lions, if thats their idea, pick the call ups from their?   
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: cricketbadger on November 07, 2017, 10:04:19 AM
Plunkett should hopefully take up the spot vacated by Finn being injured AGAIN!!!! He should have been their instead in the first place anyway
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mattdawson on November 07, 2017, 10:05:11 AM
I cant spell....I quit for the morning
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 07, 2017, 10:09:08 AM
Outside bet on Tom Curran to get a call up?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: springbok45 on November 07, 2017, 10:11:50 AM
Has anyone read the Pominshambles article on the BBC sport page, it reveals the secret of Mitchell Johnsons spectacular bowling was humming songs from frozen to block out the barmy army.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: it's_a_pudding on November 07, 2017, 10:57:51 AM
I thought Plunkett wasn't in the lions because of the t20 tournament he is waiting to play in? I would play Wood if they are going to use him as an impact bowler but if he's going to be required to bowl more than 5 overs in a spell Plunkett is the man there really isn't many more options with international experience etc. Tom Curran is not a bad shout but to similar to other bowlers in the squad.
Alot of people writing England off but I still think as it stands both sides are fairly similar they have a more potent attack but I think we have the stronger batsmen. Shaping up to be a good series.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: leatherseat on November 07, 2017, 11:00:21 AM
With Finn out, surely they will call up Plunkett. One of the few bowlers we have who can 'hurry up' the Aussie batsmen. He can also add valuable runs down the order and has substantial experience.

Ball sounds like he has found the right length straight away, and as he can bowl in the upper 80's (mph), more pace than most (fit) England options. Irrespective of the quality of the opposition, bowling in the right place is a huge positive.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Nmcgee on November 07, 2017, 11:02:57 AM
Impressive stuff but aren't they pretty much all tailenders (his victimsover the two hat tricks have a combined average of around 60), something England aren't like to have more than a couple of in their 11?

Yes, I guess, but 35 overs at 2.5 runs per over is an excellent performance for the match. He has dominated the first two Shield games of the season against full strength sides.

You will not get an idea of the English teams preparation from the trial games against teenage, fringe first class players. Frankly, I'd love to see guys like Mark Stoneman play well and make a name for themselves but the trial games are pathetic.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 07, 2017, 11:07:02 AM
I thought Plunkett wasn't in the lions because of the t20 tournament he is waiting to play in? I would play Wood if they are going to use him as an impact bowler but if he's going to be required to bowl more than 5 overs in a spell Plunkett is the man there really isn't many more options with international experience etc. Tom Curran is not a bad shout but to similar to other bowlers in the squad.
Alot of people writing England off but I still think as it stands both sides are fairly similar they have a more potent attack but I think we have the stronger batsmen. Shaping up to be a good series.

Wood has been wrongly used by England
 if selected  he is your bang it in bowler no more than 5 over spells.
But it should be Plunkett the fittest of all the bowlers does nothing wrong  when he plays but is seen by the England camp as a one day specialist.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on November 07, 2017, 11:19:14 AM
Yes, I guess, but 35 overs at 2.5 runs per over is an excellent performance for the match. He has dominated the first two Shield games of the season against full strength sides.

You will not get an idea of the English teams preparation from the trial games against teenage, fringe first class players. Frankly, I'd love to see guys like Mark Stoneman play well and make a name for themselves but the trial games are pathetic.

I agree, the warm up games offered to touring sides has pretty much become a race to the bottom in recent time, which benifits nobody.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 07, 2017, 11:23:20 AM
I agree, the warm up games offered to touring sides has pretty much become a race to the bottom in recent time, which benifits nobody.

I agree ....all test nations are guilty and should be embarrassed.  If i were ecb i would tried to have eng play lions in a 3 or 4 day warm up game. Two birds with one stone .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 07, 2017, 11:28:00 AM
I agree ....all test nations are guilty and should be embarrassed.  If i were ecb i would tried to have eng play lions in a 3 or 4 day warm up game. Two birds with one stone .

Not to mention embarrassing when the lions win, or rig the sides so itís england bowlers vs England batters and lions vs lions
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on November 07, 2017, 11:50:39 AM
Team is out for the next warmup:
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
YJB
Woakes
Overton
Ball
Crane
Anderson

Looks like that gives us a pretty good idea of the test side then, Ali and Broad in for Crane and one of Overton/Ball. Don't think Vince will last the series tbh!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 07, 2017, 12:02:31 PM
This tour feels like a trainwreck and it hasn't even started
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on November 07, 2017, 12:09:20 PM
Get Stokes on the bloody plane.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 07, 2017, 12:09:50 PM
He'll punch the engine and it'll crash
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on November 07, 2017, 12:10:33 PM
This tour feels like a trainwreck and it hasn't even started

This is how every Ashes tour went between 1994 and 2007. I've been having Joey Benjamin flashbacks...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: moonball on November 07, 2017, 12:15:39 PM
Feel really sorry for Steve Finn having to return home with a torn knee cartilage. Be interesting to see who, if anyone, gets called in as replacement, given England already have Ball and Overton as well as Broad and Anderson. Finn's injury may be a factor in any decisions over Ben Stokes, although I don't think he will play any tests, but will be included in the white ball cricket, pending any decisions / outcomes on his conduct in Brizzle.   
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 07, 2017, 12:18:17 PM
This is how every Ashes tour went between 1994 and 2007. I've been having Joey Benjamin flashbacks...

Test bowling average of 20  ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on November 07, 2017, 12:34:00 PM
Sometimes the figures do lie.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 07, 2017, 01:27:09 PM
Itís happening again isnít it :/ barely a week in and already a man down :/
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: FattusCattus on November 07, 2017, 01:46:20 PM
Are you that worried @alexhilly1492  - for me Finn was unlikely to feature in the test side and frankly lucky to be on the tour.

His replacement options are the unselected Plunkett or someone from the lions squad who should probably be ahead of him in the pecking order anyway!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on November 07, 2017, 02:05:23 PM
The older Currant has been called up.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 07, 2017, 02:08:20 PM
The older Currant has been called up.

Told you all  ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on November 07, 2017, 02:09:46 PM
If Finn got anywhere near the side we'd have had it by that point anyway, surely noone can be that upset about it? He got dropped halfway through an Ashes series even when at his absolute best, and he's nowhere near that now.

Given that the available spot is for effectively a 6th choice seamer, I'd rather see a bolter called up than a steady bowler like Plunkett - Plunkett's not going to let anyone down but if whoever is in the squad as the 6th seamer gets to actually play a test then we'll probably be in need of a bit of inspiration! George Garton/Tom Helm/Tom Curran perhaps.

edit: ah, Tom Curran. The predictable option really, hard to argue too much with that.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 07, 2017, 02:12:23 PM
Are you that worried @alexhilly1492  - for me Finn was unlikely to feature in the test side and frankly lucky to be on the tour.

His replacement options are the unselected Plunkett or someone from the lions squad who should probably be ahead of him in the pecking order anyway!

It just seems whenever we go to aus (2010-11 excluded) it all goes t*ts up!

I agree Finn shouldnít have been there in the first place but Iíve given up on that arguement and Iím just gonna back whoever is there!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 07, 2017, 02:28:11 PM
 Barmy army, Barmy army,athertons barmy army!!!
And repeat
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 07, 2017, 02:30:03 PM
Barmy army, Barmy army,athertons barmy army!!!
And repeat

Quite right. Back your team no matter what.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 07, 2017, 02:45:29 PM
I will always enjoy any Surrey representation and seeing an increase of 3 players does warm the cockles of my heart, but without bringing up his stats it hardly feels like Curran did much in Div 1, some proper garbage bowling during periods. He was already due to be out there for the Big Bash anyway.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Mr_Orange on November 07, 2017, 02:49:53 PM
Tom Curran has been called up, flying out tomorrow

https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/510862/tom-curran-to-replace-steven-finn-in-england-s-ashes-test-squad (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/510862/tom-curran-to-replace-steven-finn-in-england-s-ashes-test-squad)

Edit... Beaten to it earlier it seems!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: greeny on November 07, 2017, 02:52:52 PM
Not saying he's a name for the England squad at the moment, as he is very inexperienced, but it would be good to see how young Josh Tongue fares out training with the Lions squad.
Only 19, 6 foot 5, and bowls up to about 90mph. On paper he suits the Aussie conditions.

One for future tours maybe?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: moonball on November 07, 2017, 03:28:14 PM
Tom Curran - good call. Great experience for the lad. Whether Finn, Plunkett or now Curran would / may play in the Tests was / is doubtful of course, but a) you need back up for injuries or if one bowler is consistently going round the park, and b) the batsmen need decent net bowlers in order to prepare, with those in the squad or on the periphery of the team hoping to impress.

Can't wait for the Ashes to start....   
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: moonball on November 07, 2017, 03:29:12 PM
Not saying he's a name for the England squad at the moment, as he is very inexperienced, but it would be good to see how young Josh Tongue fares out training with the Lions squad.
Only 19, 6 foot 5, and bowls up to about 90mph. On paper he suits the Aussie conditions.

One for future tours maybe?

Good shout.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 07, 2017, 03:34:23 PM
I think Curran looks a good player, seen him live at Durham in the T20 against West Indies and he looked like he hurried the batsmen more than the other English lads, bowled slippery skiddy stuff similar to Stokes, something a bit different from the rest of the bowling line up imo.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: it's_a_pudding on November 07, 2017, 03:46:05 PM
Wood has been wrongly used by England
 if selected  he is your bang it in bowler no more than 5 over spells.
But it should be Plunkett the fittest of all the bowlers does nothing wrong  when he plays but is seen by the England camp as a one day specialist.

Completely agree we should be using him like the Aussies used Mitchell Johnson against England and South Africa. As for Curran I think he is a very good player but he should be competing with Overton for that position. I think Curran is being groomed for Broads position one day same for Woakes replacing Jimmy. I suspect he's in the squad for the experience and might play the odd game which is likely at the moment. If Ali isn't fit for the first test we are in big trouble.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 07, 2017, 08:12:55 PM
The tour is a complete and utter disaster already.

Yes really.... I mean has anyone seen James Andersons Ashes diary? It's boring

So much so I was on you tube last night revisiting yet again Swannys brilliant videos from 2011.

As we started winning it just got better
we were really 500-1 at once stage

Pinch me I must have been dreaming

Come on the lads !!!! :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Sivlar13 on November 08, 2017, 06:59:07 AM
Get the Cricket australia app, register and you can watch the live stream of the england warm up game for free
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: No.4 on November 08, 2017, 07:02:19 AM
BT sport are showing streaming it on their Facebook page.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 08, 2017, 09:23:15 AM
Malan showing some graft. Fair play.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 08, 2017, 09:57:33 AM
Woakes > Stokes
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 08, 2017, 10:40:15 AM
Guys am I right in if by sport appears in your channel listings the ashes are on it-you donít need to do anything
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on November 08, 2017, 10:41:20 AM
Once again the crap Newbery stickers are shown up on TV.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on November 08, 2017, 02:42:14 PM
Cook's struggling. What's going on?!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 08, 2017, 02:43:42 PM
I watched KPs 227 in Adelaide to make myself feel slightly better. Does the job for about 3 minutes.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on November 08, 2017, 02:56:25 PM
I watched KPs 227 in Adelaide to make myself feel slightly better. Does the job for about 3 minutes.

I had to watch the 1st day of the Boxing Day Test in 2010 twice the other day.

Intravenous Ashes uppers ...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 08, 2017, 05:54:46 PM
You guys suck - you're taking all the fun out of it . You're meant to be all bright eyed , bushy tailed , brimming with confidence. ....then let Australia beat you in the Ashes ! It's no fun if you're lamenting a series loss before it's even started .  :) :D :D :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 08, 2017, 07:09:25 PM
You guys suck - you're taking all the fun out of it . You're meant to be all bright eyed , bushy tailed , brimming with confidence. ....then let Australia beat you in the Ashes ! It's no fun if you're lamenting a series loss before it's even started .  :) :D :D :D

Bright eyed  bushy tailed and brimming with confidence .... When looking at the bowling England have I feel depressed.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 08, 2017, 08:11:04 PM
You guys suck - you're taking all the fun out of it . You're meant to be all bright eyed , bushy tailed , brimming with confidence. ....then let Australia beat you in the Ashes ! It's no fun if you're lamenting a series loss before it's even started .  :) :D :D :D

We are English, although some of us are not exactly pure of blood, so we generally look on the pessimistic side.

However...... :) you cannot rule out the possibility Stokes does get on the plane, fights his way thru the crowd with the Aussies chanting(ironic really) ball and chain, ball and chain.....sledges all the Aussies on the way to the wicket hits a hundred and then bowls all you lot out.

Well....it's Ashes cricket, anything is possible right?

Celebrates with room service and call of duty just to be on the safe side.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on November 09, 2017, 05:48:15 AM
Oh dear, Jake Ball off injured... next please! Likely to be a harder decision this time too, probably safe to assume that Plunkett is out so Tom Helm next in line?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2017, 06:40:34 AM
If he wasnít already....Chris Woakes just became crucial to us competing on this tour
Mason crane seems very highly rated, could we play two spinners in most of the tests? Looking more possible, Anderson broad and Woakes cannot be bowled into the ground-we have lost if they do
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 09, 2017, 08:51:23 AM
If he wasnít already....Chris Woakes just became crucial to us competing on this tour
Mason crane seems very highly rated, could we play two spinners in most of the tests? Looking more possible, Anderson broad and Woakes cannot be bowled into the ground-we have lost if they do

I like the look of Crane but he's a typical young leggie I think, he'll take some wickets but he'll go for some runs too, might be a bit too much of a luxury at the moment.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 09, 2017, 09:11:52 AM
I think I might cry
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 09, 2017, 09:22:19 AM
I think I might cry

Don't cry, Mason Crane just bowled a maiden, he's gonna save us all
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2017, 09:23:35 AM
Hang in there Rick

For those old enough on the forum may remember Martin Johnson in the independent on tour back in the eighties writing

Thereís only 3 things wrong with the England team, they canít bowl, they canít bat and they canít field.

We won that test series in Oz.
 :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 09, 2017, 09:25:04 AM
Why am I sad about a bloke with a test bowling average of 114 being injured.

Might just money on 5-0
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 09, 2017, 09:31:56 AM
If he wasnít already....Chris Woakes just became crucial to us competing on this tour
Mason crane seems very highly rated, could we play two spinners in most of the tests? Looking more possible, Anderson broad and Woakes cannot be bowled into the ground-we have lost if they do

If England play two spinners. in Aus  there's no way they will take   20 wickets  needed to win also only one test venue is known to  spin.
Without doubt Woakes is crucial  but can he  take wickets / win matches for England away from the UK.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on November 09, 2017, 09:41:52 AM
Seniorplayer - if only one venue in Australia spins, which one do you mean?

Gabba, where Warne said was his favourite place to bowl
Adelaide, where Swann bowled out Oz in 2010
Or Sydney, just to swallow the truism?

Play your best bowlers from what you've got left, frankly.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2017, 09:47:13 AM
If England play two spinners. in Aus  there's no way they will take   20 wickets  needed to win also only one test venue is known to  spin.
Without doubt Woakes is crucial  but can he  take wickets / win matches for England away from the UK.

Your back to the constant discussion of do you play your best bowlers or a lesser bowler because of the pitch...itís flawed thinking
We have had spinners do very well out there, itís hot the pitch will bake

Ps I was in Worcester on Saturday itís very nice, meet you for a pint next time
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on November 09, 2017, 11:12:22 AM
Thereís only 3 things wrong with the England team, they canít bowl, they canít bat and they canít field.

Ah the brilliance of his retraction - "Right headline, Wrong team"  :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 09, 2017, 11:12:53 AM
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23318957_10154779642670194_3391840554465741798_n.jpg?oh=1afe5dbf30cc479f4e1456a76218a459&oe=5A65D9F6)

YES LADS
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 09, 2017, 12:38:52 PM
Your back to the constant discussion of do you play your best bowlers or a lesser bowler because of the pitch...itís flawed thinking
We have had spinners do very well out there, itís hot the pitch will bake

Ps I was in Worcester on Saturday itís very nice, meet you for a pint next time

Yes the pitches will bake  and they will have bounce but will they turn has an indiactor England  seamers took 68 wickets out there in the last series not just me but the tv experts seem to agree also wasn't suggesting England play lesser bowlers.
Glad you liked Worcester it's  also a great place if you like English history.
Did you go to Fearnley or Hawk.
Look foreward to that pint.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 09, 2017, 12:45:01 PM
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23318957_10154779642670194_3391840554465741798_n.jpg?oh=1afe5dbf30cc479f4e1456a76218a459&oe=5A65D9F6)

YES LADS

Get him in at no. 5 good old fashioned Northern grit.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 09, 2017, 01:03:30 PM
Seniorplayer - if only one venue in Australia spins, which one do you mean?

Gabba, where Warne said was his favourite place to bowl
Adelaide, where Swann bowled out Oz in 2010
Or Sydney, just to swallow the truism?

Play your best bowlers from what you've got left, frankly.

Sydney the ground the Aussies  test team go to when they want to Practice against the turning ball
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on November 09, 2017, 01:09:44 PM
Yes the pitches will bake  and they will have bounce but will they turn has an indiactor England  seamers took 68 wickets out there in the last series not just me but the tv experts seem to agree also wasn't suggesting England play lesser bowlers.
Glad you liked Worcester it's  also a great place if you like English history.
Did you go to Fearnley or Hawk.
Look foreward to that pint.

The reason England's seamer's took those wickets last time was because Swann was bowling a bag of grenades (for a variety of reasons) and retired after 3 tests it was so bad - 7-560 in 3 tests! So there wasn't anyone else to take them.

Warne has said many times that it is bounce and accuracy that got him wickets, with the occasional ball that turns is all you need to show the batsman that you can do it.

I say throw Crane in - it looks like he is bowling well and is used to Aus conditions after playing for NSW.
 
 
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 09, 2017, 02:10:25 PM
Seniorplayer - if only one venue in Australia spins, which one do you mean?

Gabba, where Warne said was his favourite place to bowl
Adelaide, where Swann bowled out Oz in 2010
Or Sydney, just to swallow the truism?

Play your best bowlers from what you've got left, frankly.


Gabba is good for spin only if the spinner uses a lot of overspin to extract extra bounce.
Adelaide in a pink ball day nighter is not the same spin friendly place it is for red ball cricket ( greener pitch , doesnt wear nearly as much by days 3,4,5).
Sydney is beginning to return to its spin friendly former self..... judge the scg pitch on the morning of day 1. Half the time you wouldn't even want/need 2 spinners at the scg anyway .
Picking Crane for anything other than the scg would be madness .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on November 09, 2017, 03:21:08 PM

Gabba is good for spin only if the spinner uses a lot of overspin to extract extra bounce.
Adelaide in a pink ball day nighter is not the same spin friendly place it is for red ball cricket ( greener pitch , doesnt wear nearly as much by days 3,4,5).
Sydney is beginning to return to its spin friendly former self..... judge the scg pitch on the morning of day 1. Half the time you wouldn't even want/need 2 spinners at the scg anyway .
Picking Crane for anything other than the scg would be madness .

Crane will have to play at some point i think so why not get him in early.

There is no way Anderson and possibly Broad will be playing every game - especially if we end up chasing leather for a few days.

The 1st and 2nd, and 4th and 5th Tests are also back to back - only 4 days in between each test if they go the distance.

So we have Overton and Curran out there as 4th seamer or back up both on debut - and now possibly another debutante if Ball needs replacing

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: it's_a_pudding on November 09, 2017, 03:34:41 PM
Tom Curran must be laughing at the luck he is having. One day not in the squad then next day having to get a flight over to cover Finn. Then getting off his flight to find out Ball is injured and there is a decent chance he will now start first test.

Out of interest who does everyone predict will be there best batsmen and bowler by the end of the series for your team ?
Im going to go for Stoneman to have a Rogers style ashes and either Woakes or Ali with the ball.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on November 09, 2017, 03:35:06 PM
Personally would have Crane in as leggies can get wickets on non turning pitches but think Mo might struggle as not got the variety or accuracy if nothing at all there for him.

Really hope I'm wrong though.

Why won't they pick Plunkett? Is he injured as seems like he would be a good shout in aus with extra bounce.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2017, 03:55:57 PM
Plunkett never gets on the trips god knows why maybe heís a bad tourist or upset someone

Mason crane is getting closer to a test match debut every day
Can this lad hold a bat down the order?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: it's_a_pudding on November 09, 2017, 03:58:27 PM
Personally would have Crane in as leggies can get wickets on non turning pitches but think Mo might struggle as not got the variety or accuracy if nothing at all there for him.

Really hope I'm wrong though.

Why won't they pick Plunkett? Is he injured as seems like he would be a good shout in aus with extra bounce.

Plunkett is fit and is in Bangladesh playing in T20 with a few other England Odi players.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on November 09, 2017, 04:25:04 PM
(https://kniftonholdingcourt.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/clive-dunn-dads-army.jpg)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 09, 2017, 06:10:02 PM
(https://kniftonholdingcourt.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/clive-dunn-dads-army.jpg)




Who do you think you are kidding .. ...... ?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 09, 2017, 06:16:02 PM



Who do you think you are kidding .. ...... ?

..... Darren Lehman, if you think we canít score runs

We are the boys who will play this mighty game

We are the boys who will keep the urn again

Coz who do you think you are kidding Darren Lehman



Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on November 09, 2017, 07:13:34 PM
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154779582025194&id=19390830193

Practicing short balls properly.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on November 09, 2017, 07:59:01 PM
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154779582025194&id=19390830193

Practicing short balls properly.

I wouldn't mind but I coudn't see the damn ball!!  :o
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2017, 08:20:12 PM
Yeah no one get any ideas for the next Southern net it was hard enough against the ball crusher Merlyn  unless we get net sponsorship from Ayrtek 'to test out the lids'
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on November 09, 2017, 09:52:02 PM
Id be keen! I loved the merlyn so much I have a net booked on tuesday with one.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 10, 2017, 07:04:16 AM
Stoneman with another 50 looks like heís in decent nick
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: csnew on November 10, 2017, 07:17:16 AM
What an embarrassing collapse, one of many I suspect on this tour
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 10, 2017, 08:22:19 AM
..... Darren Lehman, if you think we canít score runs

We are the boys who will play this mighty game

We are the boys who will keep the urn again

Coz who do you think you are kidding Darren Lehman

Give the Barmy Army a ring and they'll be belting that out in a fortnight at the Gabba.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 10, 2017, 09:55:37 AM
Anderson named as vice captain we are in safe hands lads

I quite like the fact heís a grumpy bowler




Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 10, 2017, 10:00:52 AM
Chris woakes 4 overs 3 wickets 4 runs....
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 10, 2017, 10:01:38 AM
Give the Barmy Army a ring and they'll be belting that out in a fortnight at the Gabba.

I was wondering if anyone on here was touring with them
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 10, 2017, 10:04:14 AM
Bloody hell Woakesy, steady on!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 10, 2017, 10:20:01 AM
eng bowlers moving the ball big time , especially off the deck. They good atm. Woakes is looking pure class.
In other news .... first match commentary re the village look of cream shirt /pants with white vest ! Im sure ther will be plenty more talk re this once the tests start. Cant understand how nb let this happen - its , literally a bad look.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Mr_Orange on November 10, 2017, 10:20:42 AM
Woakes has 4 now, CA XI are 18/5 from 14 overs.

Anyone watching it on Facebook? Woakes is really impressive, understandably a weaker opposition but still moving it both ways at good pace.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 10, 2017, 10:31:47 AM
Overton has 2 howís he looking?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on November 10, 2017, 10:33:27 AM
Espn shows he only has 1 woakes with 4?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on November 10, 2017, 10:34:13 AM
Never mind  :D :D :. Aussie XI my (No Swearing Please)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Mr_Orange on November 10, 2017, 10:36:42 AM
Overton has 2 howís he looking?
Looks ok, moving the ball back into the right hander well. The ball he bowled Tim Paine with was a beauty.

Anderson just got another so they're 7 down now. Great reaction from Bairstow after dropping it and catching the rebound.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 10, 2017, 10:37:52 AM
might be all over tonight.
i suppose oz can try to con ourselves that it was all a plan to deprive eng bowlers of getting more overs under their belts. ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on November 10, 2017, 10:45:24 AM
Anyone got that facebook link to the highlights again? Can't seem to find it!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mattdawson on November 10, 2017, 10:49:36 AM
7 down in no time  :o

Are we allowed to get carried away that we will do some damage in Adelaide  ;) Another hot spell of bowling from the man that wasn't named by the press last tour.

Is there any reason that Broad isn't playing this game?

I'd have thought this would have been the game Eng played almost full strength seen as its at a test venue and extra D/N match practice

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: mattdawson on November 10, 2017, 10:52:06 AM
Anyone got that facebook link to the highlights again? Can't seem to find it!

no highlights but here's the live link:

https://www.facebook.com/btsport/videos/1745428565530338/ (https://www.facebook.com/btsport/videos/1745428565530338/)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on November 10, 2017, 11:29:36 AM
no highlights but here's the live link:

https://www.facebook.com/btsport/videos/1745428565530338/ (https://www.facebook.com/btsport/videos/1745428565530338/)

Thanks  :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 10, 2017, 01:15:56 PM
7 down in no time  :o

Are we allowed to get carried away that we will do some damage in Adelaide  ;) Another hot spell of bowling from the man that wasn't named by the press last tour.

Is there any reason that Broad isn't playing this game?

I'd have thought this would have been the game Eng played almost full strength seen as its at a test venue and extra D/N match practice



 Broad hasnít lasted an ashes tour for a while some of the games are back to back so tough for the bowlers

I think crane is going to play-the issue then is you need plenty of seam bowling to cover jimmy and broad so they donít get knackered. He could be bowling heavy in the first test to cover

The batters have got to stand up if we do that
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: springbok45 on November 10, 2017, 02:02:30 PM
http://bbc.in/2ArC2Eu (http://bbc.in/2ArC2Eu)

So many different teams you could put together out of the options on this
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Buzz on November 10, 2017, 02:50:22 PM
[url]http://bbc.in/2ArC2Eu[/url] ([url]http://bbc.in/2ArC2Eu[/url])

So many different teams you could put together out of the options on this

Was grumpy I couldn't pick two spinners. You would want Laker and Warne in your team and with Botham, Lillee and McGrath you have enough seam up bowling. Add Gilchrist and you are just fighting over who will join Bradman in the batting order.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 10, 2017, 06:31:56 PM
[url]http://bbc.in/2ArC2Eu[/url] ([url]http://bbc.in/2ArC2Eu[/url])

So many different teams you could put together out of the options on this


Stuff not being able to pick guys out of position , pick more than one allrounder,  two spinners etc . Anyway , for what its worth ( without their restrictions) :
1 G.Boycott
2 H.Sutcliffe
3 D.Bradman
4 W.Hammond
5 S.Waugh
6 A.Gilchrist
7 K.Miller
8 I.Botham
9 S.Warne
10 J. Thomson
11 F.Tyson

If it was a spinning track, then swap one of Thomson or Tyson for Laker .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: FattusCattus on November 10, 2017, 06:49:13 PM
With Hammond and Waugh in that side you could swap Tyson out for Laker
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on November 10, 2017, 06:51:33 PM
Whew, tricky.  I'd go:

Hutton
Sutcliffe
Bradman
Chappell
S Waugh
Botham
Flintoff or Davison
Gilchrist
Trueman
Warne
Lillee
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Buzz on November 11, 2017, 07:04:17 AM
Has anyone even heard of George Garton !!!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on November 11, 2017, 07:44:19 AM
Has anyone even heard of George Garton !!!

I have- Garton has just been called up as cover for the England Ashes squad...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on November 11, 2017, 08:15:58 AM
Does Liam Plunkett have an irrational fear of spiders that I don't know about?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on November 11, 2017, 08:46:49 AM
@Buzz  Yes. Doesnt even get in the Sussex team. Disappointing call up. I'd rather ask Chris Jordan back. Or speed up Jofra Archers qualification.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on November 11, 2017, 08:51:08 AM
Heís only with team for a week.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 11, 2017, 08:56:07 AM
If it comes to the point where Garton has to actually play a test we're either:

A) 4-0 down going into the last test
B) 4-0 up going into the last test
C) Broad, Anderson, Woakes, Overton, Curran etc are crocked and we're already up the creek without a paddle.

So I wouldn't worry too much.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on November 11, 2017, 09:10:41 AM
Has anyone even heard of George Garton !!!
I'll take some credit here ;)
Given that the available spot is for effectively a 6th choice seamer, I'd rather see a bolter called up than a steady bowler like Plunkett - Plunkett's not going to let anyone down but if whoever is in the squad as the 6th seamer gets to actually play a test then we'll probably be in need of a bit of inspiration! George Garton/Tom Helm/Tom Curran perhaps.

edit: ah, Tom Curran. The predictable option really, hard to argue too much with that.
Highly unlikely he'll play, but the romance of a young tearaway quick getting surprisingly selected by Bayliss and ripping holes in Australia is hard to resist! He did do pretty well for he Lions in the summer if I remember right.

https://twitter.com/Vitu_E/status/929137558747049985
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Johnny on November 11, 2017, 09:40:59 AM
Left arm quick net bowling to prepare for Starc perhaps?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on November 11, 2017, 09:50:55 AM
So who are the bowlers going to be for the last warm up game...

Broad - as he didn't play this game
Ali - meant to be fit now and hasn't played a game
Curran - to get some game time in AUS conditions
Overton - ?? That would mean he's played every game
Woakes - ?? That would mean he's played every game
Crane - ?? Are we going to play 2 spinners

Anderson will surely be rested before the test as he's played every game so far.

I think it's lucky we didn't bowl to many overs that 2nd innings.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: FattusCattus on November 11, 2017, 09:56:24 AM
Left arm quick net bowling to prepare for Starc perhaps?

Precisely - he's called up to help with preparation and has no real chance of playing. Having a slippery quick left arm over in the nets won't exactly replicate Starc, but it will help a lot and is better than having no preparation at all against bowling from this angle.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 11, 2017, 10:05:12 AM
Broad , Anderson, woakes, Ali absolute nailed on so its a bit easier if the team is listed. We havnt had a Pete hosk team list for a while -Pete get on it- until then how about this?

Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

That's 10 ....umm. I think Crane could play but the issue is broad and Anderson cannot be bowled I to the ground early it will wreck the tour

That means Overton has to play and just one spinner in Ali.

What does everyone else think? Getting a bit more excited now the 1st test is getting closer.

Malan is in possession of the number 5 spot although there is a slight argument Ballance was injured but that's a bit flaky to me  :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Jlscarroll17 on November 11, 2017, 10:11:32 AM
Total joke of calling up someone that can't break into their county side, surely you'd rather take another bowler that if called upon would be able to step up I.e Jordan or plunkett, cranes looked god in the warm up games but sometimes a few to many loose deliveries but that's expected of a young spinner, would of like to see Patel on the tour hasn't done much wrong over the course of the season
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 11, 2017, 10:13:36 AM

Malan is in possession of the number 5 spot although there is a slight argument Ballance was injured but that's a bit flaky to me  :)

Malan (while not exactly setting the world alight just yet) hasn't done anything to deserve dropping, he'll deffo start the first test at 5, plus he's actually (along with Stoneman) looked the best batter in the warm ups so far.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Buzz on November 11, 2017, 10:35:27 AM
Left arm quick net bowling to prepare for Starc perhaps?

Well done Edge.
Obviously he has been called up for preparation against starc, but still a bit of a bolter.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on November 11, 2017, 10:48:05 AM
From what i have read it is purely a call up for the warm up game and Garton will actually go back to the Lions to play in their game vs Queensland which starts Mon Nov 27th.

England actually expect Ball to be fit in about a weeks time.

Like others have said valuable experience against LA seamers for our batters though.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 11, 2017, 10:57:30 AM
Broad , Anderson, woakes, Ali absolute nailed on so its a bit easier if the team is listed. We havnt had a Pete hosk team list for a while -Pete get on it- until then how about this?

Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

That's 10 ....umm. I think Crane could play but the issue is broad and Anderson cannot be bowled I to the ground early it will wreck the tour

That means Overton has to play and just one spinner in Ali.

What does everyone else think? Getting a bit more excited now the 1st test is getting closer.

Malan is in possession of the number 5 spot although there is a slight argument Ballance was injured but that's a bit flaky to me  :)

Good point re Anderson and Broad  theres so much dependant on these two   England will need to pick a spinner  who if doesn't take wickets will block an end to give them a breather.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Cow_corner on November 11, 2017, 12:26:45 PM
Get the Ginger Ninja on a plane EK036 leaves the Toon about 1.30 daily. Innocent until proven guilty.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 11, 2017, 12:55:39 PM
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Overton
Broad
Anderson

Balanced and has enough there to cause issues for the Aussies!

Get a draw at the gabba and go to Adelaide and win series on!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on November 11, 2017, 02:23:23 PM
Get the Ginger Ninja on a plane EK036 leaves the Toon about 1.30 daily. Innocent until proven guilty.

Any plane?

(http://a66.tinypic.com/oumvix.jpg)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 11, 2017, 08:40:07 PM
Interesting in that i think ,with 15 days until the 1st test , the eng side is locked in already , whereas the oz team isnt....
Eng
Cook , stoneman, vince , root , malan , bairstow , ali , woakes , overton , broad , anderson.
Oz
Renshaw,  warner , khawaja,  smith,  handsomb,  maxwell /cartwright /lehmann /bancroft , nevill /wade / carey /bancroft , starc , cummins,  lyon,  hazlewood.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 11, 2017, 09:41:11 PM
Neville and wade are the two keepers correct? Seems odd to us there is not an outstanding keeper, pretty much everyone in the past has been top draw. Brad Haddin most recent perhaps did not get the credit due-he got very useful runs and was tidy.

England's selection(we think) should be fairly easy, I do think myself Crane could play as a second spinner but for the start broad and Anderson need some protecting-meaning Overton and Woakes may need to do some donkey work.

That's presuming there won't be a lot in the wickets for the seamers.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 11, 2017, 09:48:50 PM
Is there any chance Tim Piane could be in the side for the Ashes?

Had it not been for that horror break of his finger he'd have been the man in possession of the gloves for years by now, wouldn't he?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: LateBloomer on November 11, 2017, 10:00:26 PM
Interesting in that i think ,with 15 days until the 1st test , the eng side is locked in already , whereas the oz team isnt....
Eng
Cook , stoneman, vince , root , malan , bairstow , ali , woakes , overton , broad , anderson.
Oz
Renshaw,  warner , khawaja,  smith,  handsomb,  maxwell /cartwright /lehmann /bancroft , nevill /wade / carey /bancroft , starc , cummins,  lyon,  hazlewood.

If you look at that England team and swap Vince and Overton for Stokes and Crane I think England have a team that can beat Australia. Crane yes is a luxury but with 4 seamers and an off spinner I feel it is a luxury England could afford and would be worth the risk. Is Overton going to contribute more anyway? Stokes being out is a game changer unfortunately.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: HellomynameisJ on November 12, 2017, 12:02:34 AM
Interesting in that i think ,with 15 days until the 1st test , the eng side is locked in already , whereas the oz team isnt....
Eng
Cook , stoneman, vince , root , malan , bairstow , ali , woakes , overton , broad , anderson.
Oz
Renshaw,  warner , khawaja,  smith,  handsomb,  maxwell /cartwright /lehmann /bancroft , nevill /wade / carey /bancroft , starc , cummins,  lyon,  hazlewood.

Lehman and carey wont get near the squad, the keeping spot will most likely stay with Wade, and should he have a quiet first couple of tests, then i'd Imagine Nevill will get the nod. I'd love Tim Paine to be there as in an alternate injury free universe, he might be captaining the side, but realistically he hasnt been a regular player for Tasmania in recent years. #6 is the tough one, but its looking like Maxwell or Shaun Marsh, Cartwright being the least likely.

Considering that recent history tells us that maxwell and cartwright wont be asked to bowl much if at all, I think they will lean towards Marsh, he scored a lovely 90 odd against the NSW (Australian) Bowling attack last sheild game.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on November 12, 2017, 07:26:56 AM
If you look at that England team and swap Vince and Overton for Stokes and Crane I think England have a team that can beat Australia. Crane yes is a luxury but with 4 seamers and an off spinner I feel it is a luxury England could afford and would be worth the risk. Is Overton going to contribute more anyway? Stokes being out is a game changer unfortunately.

That's a lovely and interesting thought about Stokes but wouldn't happen - not just because of the obvious about Stokes. But the problem that Root won't bat at 3 so you would only be replacing Overton with Stokes because you have no-one to bat at 3 so Vince has to play.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ScottParko on November 12, 2017, 12:18:10 PM
Well I've heard we may well be seeing Mr Stokes in Oz very soon...... could be tosh but I'm hoping it's true
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: LateBloomer on November 12, 2017, 12:30:00 PM
Well I've heard we may well be seeing Mr Stokes in Oz very soon...... could be tosh but I'm hoping it's true

I could kiss you Parko
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on November 12, 2017, 12:33:06 PM
Well I've heard we may well be seeing Mr Stokes in Oz very soon...... could be tosh but I'm hoping it's true

Where has this potential tosh come from?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 12, 2017, 01:26:51 PM
I wouldn't get too excited, the only way for that to happen you would think is if the police make no charges

It's a strange world sometimes thou and if you happen to be able to afford the best lawyers who could find a loophole anything is possible !

Didn't Swann get off a drink driving charge because he was rescuing a trapped cat and needed a screwdriver ! He was over the limit but from memory the cat did get rescued from permanently living under the floorboards
 :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: DorsetDan on November 12, 2017, 01:28:11 PM
The quotes may well be taken out of context but I found this interesting from the ECB...

Quote
The England and Wales Cricket Board must strike a balance "between censure and support" once it concludes a review into Ben Stokes' off-field conduct, says chief executive Tom Harrison.

We will pull a stern face and write him a strongly worded letter and then fly him in ASAP

Quote
Harrison said the ECB's response "will show the values of the game in its best light".

If not found guilty from the police investigation we'll strip the vice captaincy, keep pulling the stern face and fly him in ASAP

Quote
"It's complicated and it's one of those that will depend on police matters," Harrison said. "We're in a holding pattern at the minute.

We can't send him out when there's an ongoing investigation...

Quote
"I think we will quickly recover to a place where the game is seen as doing its best to rehabilitate reputations on the field and try and get Ben and Alex back to a place where fans are really behind them."

.... but we damned well want them back in action as soon as possible... probably still with a stern face and some tutting... but definitely playing, because lets face it he's rather good
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 12, 2017, 01:33:34 PM
As the first test draws closer had a look at the fixtures  And there's  five tests in seven weeks can the bowlers stay fit  maybe it will come down to the side with the fittest bowlers  will  have the best chance of winning.
 
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 12, 2017, 01:49:30 PM
Jake ball now appears to be OK for the first test if needed.

Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc are the Aussies best seamers. After years of back problems Cummins seems to be fit now and he is very useful.

There has been injury issues with the Australian bowlers in the past, can they get theu most of the matches fully fit is the big question.

For us, we could be a batsman short going into the first game because we won't want too much work early for our two best bowlers.

Overton or ball in I reckon with Ali, woakes,Broad and Anderson.5 bowlers I think that means Bairstow bats 6 with Ali and woakes behind.

If stokes was to make a miracle appearance(!) we could play two spinners if we wanted.

That's the problem trying to replace a world class allrounder, Stokes gives the selectors options, without him we really need two players instead.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 12, 2017, 03:04:11 PM
That's the problem trying to replace a world class allrounder, Stokes gives the selectors options, without him we really need two players instead.

Simple - drop James Vince and get Joe Root up to no.3
He may get to the crease 3 or 4 balls earlier that way, but it gives space for the extra bowler...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on November 12, 2017, 06:06:46 PM
Broad , Anderson, woakes, Ali absolute nailed on so its a bit easier if the team is listed. We havnt had a Pete hosk team list for a while -Pete get on it-

Hi fella - ok, as I have discussed with a couple of others over the last week or two, I suspect it will be.......

Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

With Overton jumping in for Broad or Anderson if they're feeling tired!  ;)

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 12, 2017, 06:08:31 PM
Hi fella - ok, as I have discussed with a couple of others over the last week or two, I suspect it will be.......

Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

With Overton jumping in for Broad or Anderson if they're feeling tired!  ;)

Stokes?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on November 12, 2017, 06:11:14 PM
But if by some freak event Stokes doesn't make the first Test, then Overton in and move people up one.
I prefer Overton over Ball but I fear that the selectors may prefer Ball!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on November 12, 2017, 06:14:19 PM
Stokes?

The less we hear about it, and the lack of people coming forward may just indicate that they will have not charge him through lack of a case!
Plus there will be pressure on the Police too!
And I am an optimist beyond logic sometimes!  ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 12, 2017, 08:33:23 PM
The less we hear about it, and the lack of people coming forward may just indicate that they will have not charge him through lack of a case!
Plus there will be pressure on the Police too!
And I am an optimist beyond logic sometimes!  ;)

Based on what' we hear and read no.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Woodyspin on November 12, 2017, 08:35:28 PM
Great argument that, "no". Fantastic news.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on November 12, 2017, 08:41:16 PM
Based on what' we hear and read no.

You got me! I can't compete with your logic!!  ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on November 12, 2017, 08:43:36 PM
Great argument that, "no". Fantastic news.

No rhyme nor reason whatsoever! Just hope and pray that he gets to Aus.
Plus I have just had a feeling in my water  :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 12, 2017, 09:37:30 PM
The less we hear about it, and the lack of people coming forward may just indicate that they will have not charge him through lack of a case!
Plus there will be pressure on the Police too!
And I am an optimist beyond logic sometimes!  ;)

I like the optimism! I wish I could share it however this is england cricket!

Agree with what youíre saying about Overton though!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on November 12, 2017, 09:42:58 PM
I have it on good authority from a good friend of mine who works for a certain police force,that Stokes is NOT, I repeat NOT, going to be charged.
This will be announced on Monday or Tuesday apparantly.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on November 12, 2017, 09:43:53 PM
Oh wait,sorry guys, that was a dream that I just made up!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: petehosk on November 12, 2017, 10:08:14 PM
I have it on good authority from a good friend of mine who works for a certain police force,that Stokes is NOT, I repeat NOT, going to be charged.
This will be announced on Monday or Tuesday apparantly.

OMG! That would mean my water could be running true!
Hope it streams soon!! (The Stokes story...not my water)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 13, 2017, 08:33:14 AM
Awaiting an announcement to see if petes witchcraft waterworks prediction comes true

For those not old enough perhaps a nod to the past when we had Botham at his peak-and how important Stokes is to the side

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ScottParko on November 13, 2017, 02:50:23 PM
I can't proclaim to know anything for certain, but I got a message late Saturday night from someone close to Durham CCC saying he is waiting to fly out this week. Could well be rubbish as I said but I really hope not.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 13, 2017, 03:46:46 PM
Any investigation can only go on for so long before a decision has to be made in Stokes s case  maybe  the length of time it  has gone on  already the more  unlikely  it is there's a case  to answer.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 14, 2017, 04:41:23 AM
Having just watched Cameron Bancroft reach 228no at lunch 2nd day vs s.a i reckon the oz selectors need to find a spot for him in the test side . He has also come off 78no and 80 odd vs nsw (full test bowling attack) and 206no at the end of the county season too . He looked the best young opener in oz for a couple years but went a bit quiet and others rose above him in the pecking order , but he has not only regained consistent form, but he has added greater scoring proficiency to his excellent physical and mental stamina/ability to bat long periods .
Whether he ousts Wade/Nevill/Carey for the gloveman role , ousts Maxwell/Cartwright/Lehmann/Marsh for the no6 role , or ousts Renshaw for an opening spot (my preferred option) is up to the selectors .... but he has knocked the door down and demands a spot .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: LateBloomer on November 14, 2017, 05:51:17 AM
Having just watched Cameron Bancroft reach 228no at lunch 2nd day vs s.a i reckon the oz selectors need to find a spot for him in the test side . He has also come off 78no and 80 odd vs nsw (full test bowling attack) and 206no at the end of the county season too . He looked the best young opener in oz for a couple years but went a bit quiet and others rose above him in the pecking order , but he has not only regained consistent form, but he has added greater scoring proficiency to his excellent physical and mental stamina/ability to bat long periods .
Whether he ousts Wade/Nevill/Carey for the gloveman role , ousts Maxwell/Cartwright/Lehmann/Marsh for the no6 role , or ousts Renshaw for an opening spot (my preferred option) is up to the selectors .... but he has knocked the door down and demands a spot .

I think Renshaw has done a decent job opening up in some tough conditions to start your career, India away against spin must have been pretty alien. Surely either of those other two roles you mention is where Bancroft gets into the side, no one has nailed down the 6 or 7 role for Aus despite plenty of chances.

But who am I to tell you how to pick your team. Id drop Starc and Cummins for Bollinger and Hilfenhaus aswell and get Lyon out for Jason Krezja. Thats what we need - an english mole on the Aussie selection committee!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Long hop 1987 on November 14, 2017, 09:09:04 AM
I think Renshaw has done a decent job opening up in some tough conditions to start your career, India away against spin must have been pretty alien. Surely either of those other two roles you mention is where Bancroft gets into the side, no one has nailed down the 6 or 7 role for Aus despite plenty of chances.

But who am I to tell you how to pick your team. Id drop Starc and Cummins for Bollinger and Hilfenhaus aswell and get Lyon out for Jason Krezja. Thats what we need - an english mole on the Aussie selection committee!

I agree I think Renshaw has done a good job and compliments Warner at the top of order well.

Is Bancroft a genuine wicket keeper or is he more in the Dravid mould of keepers?

If a proper keeper surely he's got to come to instead of Wade and Nevill who aren't in great form.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on November 14, 2017, 09:43:10 AM
Bancroft has hardly ever kept in 1st class, he might bat 6, but heíll never keep.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 14, 2017, 10:54:08 AM
I like Renshaw , he's done a decent job at the start of his test career , but he is not in form . Bancroft needs to come into the side somewhere .....Bancroft , Maxwell , Nevill looks better atm then Renshaw , Bancroft , Nevill , or Renshaw , Maxwell , Nevill , in the 3 available positions.
Sometimes you have to make tough calls....and Renshaw will be back , he is only 21 afterall .
But id be pretty happy with Bancroft keeping and Renshaw staying in the side , but Bancroft keeping is quite unlikely .... but if its the only way the selectors are willing to pick him , then so be it .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 14, 2017, 11:28:08 AM
Bancroft has hardly ever kept in 1st class, he might bat 6, but heíll never keep.

so play him as a batsmen and let handscomb keep, or is that not an option?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on November 14, 2017, 12:08:58 PM
so play him as a batsmen and let handscomb keep, or is that not an option?
Think the same would apply for Handscomb.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 14, 2017, 12:10:00 PM
so play him as a batsmen and let handscomb keep, or is that not an option?

Isn't Hanscomb a part time keeper too?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 14, 2017, 12:30:05 PM
Haha.
Maybe we pick bancroft as opener, and a specialist batsman (or allrounder) at 7 , and Bancroft and Handscomb can share the keeping duties . Maybe wear one glove and pad each ?  ;) :D :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Cow_corner on November 14, 2017, 12:48:10 PM
Handscomb is a smoggie so having been brought up under a toxic cloud from ICI Wilton, his webbed 6 digit hands would need custom gloves.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on November 14, 2017, 01:26:08 PM
The Handscomb keeping thing is what i always didn't get as it completely solves the Aussies - 'can't find a genuine allrounder' issue.

I think i am right in saying he kept for Yorkshire during the summer?

In Australia he is going to be standing back with consistent bounce at least 85% of the time i reckon - it's not like keeping in India etc... where Aus have just come from.

If Handscomb kept it completely changes Australia's selection - no. 6 can be a complete batter and you can select another bowler or even that allrounder at no.7
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 14, 2017, 01:53:30 PM
As an Englishman I much prefer the look of the side with Wade in it...  ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Bats_Galore on November 14, 2017, 02:13:08 PM
Bancroft is a proper keeper. He has kept all is life in all levels but 1st class. He wasn't chosen for WA as Whitman was in the team from the age group before and hence kept the gloves Bancroft becoming a specialist batsman. Handscombe is a part time keeper and always has been and has said himself he is only comfortable keeping in LO cricket.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on November 14, 2017, 02:32:43 PM
I think i am right in saying he kept for Yorkshire during the summer?


He did, in the one day stuff.  He was not particularly impressive.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 14, 2017, 06:46:09 PM
Bancroft is a proper keeper. He has kept all is life in all levels but 1st class. He wasn't chosen for WA as Whitman was in the team from the age group before and hence kept the gloves Bancroft becoming a specialist batsman. Handscombe is a part time keeper and always has been and has said himself he is only comfortable keeping in LO cricket.

Thats great news , gives me confidence he could do the job .
Geez, they better pick him somewhere ....
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 14, 2017, 08:57:49 PM
Another day passes with no stokes announcement. A few things perhaps to consider

Are we ready to hand over the ashes with no ginger ninja?

Do we think this is the weakest Aussie team ever seen in ...Australia?

Can Steve smith keep up his phenomenal run scoring with a technique from the village green?

Do we secretly envy the Australian way of life and the fact some of their women are stronger than us men?

Do you know what a scooner is?

Do we really really really not miss mark Nicholas but wish the brilliant Richie benaud could commentate on just one more series?

So many questions we just don't know the answer too.

Roll on the 1st test.  :)

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: LateBloomer on November 14, 2017, 09:54:38 PM
Another day passes with no stokes announcement. A few things perhaps to consider

Are we ready to hand over the ashes with no ginger ninja?

Do we think this is the weakest Aussie team ever seen in ...Australia?

Can Steve smith keep up his phenomenal run scoring with a technique from the village green?

Do we secretly envy the Australian way of life and the fact some of their women are stronger than us men?

Do you know what a scooner is?

Do we really really really not miss mark Nicholas but wish the brilliant Richie benaud could commentate on just one more series?

So many questions we just don't know the answer too.

Roll on the 1st test.  :)

Calm down chap
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: HellomynameisJ on November 14, 2017, 10:18:05 PM
Who i would pick with the teams lined up
Warner Vs Cook (home advantage wins)

Renshaw Vs Stoneman (only because he has a few more test matches under his belt)

Smith Vs Vince (no explination required)

Khawaja Vs Root (Root a class above)

Handscomb Vs Malan (handscomb with more experience)

Wade/Nevill/Bancroft/Alyssa Healy, Australian Cattle Dog/Backstop Vs Bairstow (because he is going to be in the side)

Maxwell/Cartwright/S. Marsh/Bancroft vs Ali (Tie, im tipping Ali to struggle with the ball massively, the Australian candidates will bowl little if at all and the genuine bats will be stronger than Ali but dont bowl)

Starc Vs Woakes (starc is in a different league)

Cummins Vs Broad (Tie, raw young pace and talent vs experience, word is broad has lost his swing and just hasnt been the same with the bat since he got hit in the mug a few years ago, cummins can also hold a bat)

Hazelwood Vs Anderson (anderson sadly well past his best, i think he will struggle with injury and form)

Lyon Vs Overton/Ball/Team Physio/Talented member of touring Barmy Army (Lyon cops alot of critisism but his record does the talking, especially in Australia)

No Stokes because you cant beat down on a person like he did, regardless of what they said. No excuses, get some help son.



Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Manormanic on November 14, 2017, 10:37:24 PM
If you pick it as the strongest XI rather than head to head...

Warner
Cook
Smith
Root
Hanscomb, probably, maybe
Bairstow
Ali
Starc
Cummins
Anderson
Lyon, who is no longer a clubbie.

If Sturks turns up, he comes in for Lyon and evens things up. It's the same series it ever was - on paper, Aussie pace and experience in the conditions beats English depth.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 15, 2017, 01:25:55 AM
Who i would pick with the teams lined up
Warner Vs Cook (home advantage wins)

Renshaw Vs Stoneman (only because he has a few more test matches under his belt)

Smith Vs Vince (no explination required)

Khawaja Vs Root (Root a class above)

Handscomb Vs Malan (handscomb with more experience)

Wade/Nevill/Bancroft/Alyssa Healy, Australian Cattle Dog/Backstop Vs Bairstow (because he is going to be in the side)

Maxwell/Cartwright/S. Marsh/Bancroft vs Ali (Tie, im tipping Ali to struggle with the ball massively, the Australian candidates will bowl little if at all and the genuine bats will be stronger than Ali but dont bowl)

Starc Vs Woakes (starc is in a different league)

Cummins Vs Broad (Tie, raw young pace and talent vs experience, word is broad has lost his swing and just hasnt been the same with the bat since he got hit in the mug a few years ago, cummins can also hold a bat)

Hazelwood Vs Anderson (anderson sadly well past his best, i think he will struggle with injury and form)

Lyon Vs Overton/Ball/Team Physio/Talented member of touring Barmy Army (Lyon cops alot of critisism but his record does the talking, especially in Australia)

No Stokes because you cant beat down on a person like he did, regardless of what they said. No excuses, get some help son.



i think ali will have a good series with the bat (oz will forget to bounce him enough) and could suprise a few with the ball. so id give that one to the poms.
cummins vs broad , i disagree it's a draw. broad can only hope for an average series.  at adelaide he should do ok and at the gabba and wacca he may do ok with the new ball if he gets his lengths right , but he will get smashed for long periods due to his increasingly pedestrian pace whenever he cant get the ball to move or it is old etc. cummins will shake up a lot of batsmen this series .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 15, 2017, 01:29:34 AM
Another day passes with no stokes announcement. A few things perhaps to consider

Are we ready to hand over the ashes with no ginger ninja?

Do we think this is the weakest Aussie team ever seen in ...Australia?

Can Steve smith keep up his phenomenal run scoring with a technique from the village green?

Do we secretly envy the Australian way of life and the fact some of their women are stronger than us men?

Do you know what a scooner is?

Do we really really really not miss mark Nicholas but wish the brilliant Richie benaud could commentate on just one more series?

So many questions we just don't know the answer too.

Roll on the 1st test.  :)


maybe i can answer on your behalf ?
yes
no (world series era bob simpson led side , anyone ?)
yes
yes
a boat of some kind ?
yes
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on November 15, 2017, 03:29:14 AM
Wade/Nevill/Bancroft/Alyssa Healy, Australian Cattle Dog/Backstop Vs Bairstow (because he is going to be in the side)

You hope?    ;)  https://www.cricket.com.au/video/jonny-bairstow-finger-injury-england-ashes-tour-match-townsville-cricket-australia-xi/2017-11-15 (https://www.cricket.com.au/video/jonny-bairstow-finger-injury-england-ashes-tour-match-townsville-cricket-australia-xi/2017-11-15)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 15, 2017, 06:50:07 AM
Woakes taken 6 wickets
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on November 15, 2017, 07:02:17 AM
Woakes taken 6 wickets
Certainly staking his claim to get the new ball ahead of Broad isn't he, wickets all over the place. Note that Overton's got a couple of economical strikes again too, first test line up is looking pretty obvious now!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 15, 2017, 07:44:58 AM
Certainly staking his claim to get the new ball ahead of Broad isn't he, wickets all over the place. Note that Overton's got a couple of economical strikes again too, first test line up is looking pretty obvious now!

Itíll be ridiculous if he doesnít open the bowling! Broad hasnít done anything in the two warm up games and Iím starting to think his place in the side could be under threat!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on November 15, 2017, 08:06:45 AM
First teams 11 will be the current 11 with Anderson in for Crane, unless it looks like it's a two spinners job (unlikely IMO) in which case he'll be in for Overton.

Would prefer Ballance at 5 to Malan but he does deserve another series.

My main worry is that Vince is a walking wicket and we have BaÝllance at 3 after he's droppped.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 15, 2017, 08:51:30 AM
Itíll be ridiculous if he doesnít open the bowling! Broad hasnít done anything in the two warm up games and Iím starting to think his place in the side could be under threat!

Broad has a bajillion Test wickets and nearly 300 international games worth of experience. They won't just drop him because he hasn't ran through a couple of club sides.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Neon Cricket on November 15, 2017, 09:09:06 AM
Woakes taken 6 wickets

Don't tell @Seniorplayer ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 15, 2017, 09:15:28 AM
Don't tell @Seniorplayer ;)

#DropWoakes
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 15, 2017, 09:42:47 AM
Broad has a bajillion Test wickets and nearly 300 international games worth of experience. They won't just drop him because he hasn't ran through a couple of club sides.

I donít think heís had the best summer either been a while since Iíve felt broad was a threat, although heíll probably have a storming series now Iíve said that!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 15, 2017, 09:50:46 AM
Woakes taken 6 wickets
Against a team that were all out for 75 the previous week.
Hope he gets six in the tests  in each match that is not all series....
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Tailendfielder on November 15, 2017, 06:54:44 PM
Drop Woakes. Doesnt get out world class  batters out everytime he plays.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 15, 2017, 07:02:35 PM
Against a team that were all out for 75 the previous week.
Hope he gets six in the tests  in each match that is not all series....

And how many did Anderson get opening the bowling with him against the same batsman?

When will you wake up?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 15, 2017, 07:22:05 PM
And how many did Anderson get opening the bowling with him against the same batsman?

When will you wake up?
Anderson as nothing to prove been there and done it in the Uk and abroad.

 More to the point when are you  going to ditch  those blinkers
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 15, 2017, 07:30:57 PM
Anderson as nothing to prove been there and done it.

 More to the point when are you  going to ditch  those blinkers

When woakes stops performing... so what if this team got bowled out for 75 Australia were bowled out for 60 we werenít saying in the next game whoever got wickets was crap because it was against a team who bowled out for less than 100
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 15, 2017, 07:48:34 PM
Drop Woakes. Doesnt get out world class  batters out everytime he plays.

He will get an opportunity next week onwards  hope  he takes it.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on November 15, 2017, 11:28:39 PM
Does anyone here have the cricket Australia app? Just wondered if it allowed you to stream the warm up games?
Cheers
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ScottParko on November 16, 2017, 12:10:59 AM
Does anyone here have the cricket Australia app? Just wondered if it allowed you to stream the warm up games?
Cheers

If you are in the U.K. BT Sport are streaming it on their Facebook page, not sure what affects there are if you are anywhere other than UK though...
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 16, 2017, 01:49:29 AM
Another 50 for Stoneman, 4 from 4 innings so far in this tour.
Let's hope he keeps this run of form going
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 16, 2017, 06:31:09 AM
Ton for Stoneman in the end, Vince thou gets in again and gets out-thatís how he bats it all looks easy enough but no real contribution-we need a lot more than that batting 3

This number 3 spot in a worry
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 16, 2017, 06:59:55 AM
Malan gets another 50
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on November 16, 2017, 07:30:56 AM
Ton for Stoneman in the end, Vince thou gets in again and gets out-thatís how he bats it all looks easy enough but no real contribution-we need a lot more than that batting 3

This number 3 spot in a worry
To be honest, a few starts and an average of 25 for the series would do for Vince really, just keep the middle order away from the new ball.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 16, 2017, 08:18:46 AM
To be honest, a few starts and an average of 25 for the series would do for Vince really, just keep the middle order away from the new ball.

You're probably right tbh, the way they are playing though it looks like Malan would be more suited to the gritty no 3 spot (never thought that watching him play for Middlesex) and Vince as a strokemaker at 5 a'la Ian Bell, I've been really impressed with Malan's tenacity especially as I (as I'm sure others did) had him down as a bit of a white ball dasher.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on November 16, 2017, 08:34:36 AM
Possibly, that'd be 3 lefties in a row at the top of the order though.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on November 16, 2017, 08:42:14 AM
If you want that approach youíre better to pick Ballance.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 16, 2017, 08:53:50 AM
I wouldn't actually move Malan to 3 I was more just trying to highlight the fact that I've been impressed with his grit and willingness to bat time. I'm one of the few who quite like Gary Ballance but I'd bat him at 5 if he was going to play, I'd also bat Vince at 5 though to be honest.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Johnny on November 16, 2017, 08:55:32 AM
Daft really that no.3 is a worry, Root should just bat there
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 16, 2017, 08:58:53 AM
Daft really that no.3 is a worry, Root should just bat there

Yup. He obviously doesn't want to though.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 16, 2017, 09:04:17 AM
Vincey with a solid 20 odd
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 16, 2017, 09:47:49 AM
Daft really that no.3 is a worry, Root should just bat there

In most recent tests he probably feels like he does.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on November 16, 2017, 10:16:29 AM
Warner
Bancroft
Khawaja
Smith
Handscomb
SHAUN FECKING MARSH hahahahahahahahahaha
TIM PAINE - Darren Lehmann scored a more recent FC hundred
Starc
Cummins
Hazlewood
Lyon
Bird

Aussie squad leaked. Good crack in Sydney it seems. After the stick England's squad got, look at that pig!

TIM PAINE hahahaha
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 16, 2017, 10:22:23 AM
Warner
Bancroft
Khawaja
Smith
Handscomb
SHAUN FECKING MARSH hahahahahahahahahaha
TIM PAINE - Darren Lehmann scored a more recent FC hundred
Starc
Cummins
Hazlewood
Lyon
Bird

Aussie squad leaked. Good crack in Sydney it seems. After the stick England's squad got, look at that pig!

TIM PAINE hahahaha

Just seen this on facebook, do we think it's genuine?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Nmcgee on November 16, 2017, 10:36:30 AM
What a bizarre selection Paine is. Obviously Nevill is finished if they pick Paine before him. Where is Alex Carey in all this? The most promising keeper in Australian cricket.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 16, 2017, 10:37:26 AM
Just seen this on facebook, do we think it's genuine?



God i hope not !

S.marsh drives me insane and t.paine would be a short sighted , desperate move .
If the oz selectors are so unhappy with wade and nevill , and they want a top notch gloveman , they should pick carey .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 16, 2017, 10:39:22 AM
My only hope is that faifax media isn't worthy of being used as toilet paper these days, so hopefully they've got it wrong .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 16, 2017, 10:51:10 AM
The team I'm hoping gets picked tomorrow : warner,  Bancroft,  khawaja, smith, handsomb,  maxwell,  carey, etc.
I would be fine with this team being picked : warner , Renshaw,  khawaja, smith, handsomb, maxwell, bancroft etc.
I would be ok with cartwright in instead of maxwell in either of those two sides .
If any of paine , wade , s.marsh get selected I'll be livid. 
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on November 16, 2017, 10:54:14 AM
Is it too much to hope for that they manage to squeeze wade and Paine into the same side ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 16, 2017, 11:03:02 AM
Is it too much to hope for that they manage to squeeze wade and Paine into the same side ;)



Donald Trump has just been on twitter denouncing the leaked side by Fairfax media as 'fake news' !
The 'real' test side according to the don will be :
S.marsh
T.paine
M.wade
J.lehmann
D.lehmann
M.marsh
P.nevill
M.stoinis
M.enriques
M.swepson
J.mennie
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 16, 2017, 11:08:38 AM
Read that Ponting as predicted a 4- 0 win for the Aussies wouldn't expect him to  predict  anything different he's  stated England are searching for a number  1and 3 batsman and Broad and Anderson  are on the  way down  but it's hard to disagree.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 16, 2017, 11:27:44 AM
And I thought our selectors were often drunk at meetings
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Kulli on November 16, 2017, 11:34:12 AM
Read that Ponting as predicted a 4- 0 win for the Aussies wouldn't expect him to  predict  anything different he's  stated England are searching for a number  1and 3 batsman and Broad and Anderson  are on the  way down  but it's hard to disagree.

Bookies will give you 8-1, lump on.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 16, 2017, 11:37:08 AM
I don't know how you can drop a keeper for his poor returns with the bat and then pick a fella who doesn't even average 30 in FC cricket and scored his only FC hundred back when Adam was a lad?!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on November 16, 2017, 11:42:44 AM
Read that Ponting as predicted a 4- 0 win for the Aussies wouldn't expect him to  predict  anything different he's  stated England are searching for a number  1and 3 batsman and Broad and Anderson  are on the  way down  but it's hard to disagree.
Lot of stuff and nonsense gets talked about Anderson being over the hill, to be fair we were all thinking it this time last year but since then he's averaged 17! If he stays injury free he'll do just fine, although I think Woakes and Overton may be the stars of the England attack.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Rob580 on November 16, 2017, 12:10:32 PM
If that is their 11 (minus Bird) then they might be in for a shock!

Bancroft - Making his debut opening the batting against Anderson, Broad & Woakes, is a tough ask.
S Marsh - Tried, tested and failed repeatedly...
Paine - He's not even keeping wicket for Tasmania, he's only got 1 FC ton and that was in 2006! He seems like a nice bloke but come on, really?

if I was an Aussie I'd be spewing. Renshaw, Stoinis & Nevill is suely a much better 3 than those!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: roco on November 16, 2017, 12:13:15 PM
miss information

dirty tricks by the enemy
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 16, 2017, 12:25:58 PM
SMarsh has made a career out of making comebacks
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 16, 2017, 12:27:02 PM
Who's gonna shout "NICE GARRY" every ball during Lyon's spell?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 16, 2017, 12:37:16 PM
Suddenly feeling a bit better about our side

S marsh I cannot believe has been recalled
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 16, 2017, 12:39:12 PM
Lot of stuff and nonsense gets talked about Anderson being over the hill, to be fair we were all thinking it this time last year but since then he's averaged 17! If he stays injury free he'll do just fine, although I think Woakes and Overton may be the stars of the England attack.
Based on  the bowling in Aus
Same newspaper has Overton ahead of Ball for selection.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on November 16, 2017, 12:48:42 PM
Surey its a deliberate plant. Early mind games? There no other reasonable explanation....
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 16, 2017, 01:01:19 PM
Is there any chance Tim Piane could be in the side for the Ashes?

Had it not been for that horror break of his finger he'd have been the man in possession of the gloves for years by now, wouldn't he?

#CalledIt
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: GoodLeave on November 16, 2017, 01:28:22 PM
You guys suck - you're taking all the fun out of it . You're meant to be all bright eyed , bushy tailed , brimming with confidence. ....then let Australia beat you in the Ashes ! It's no fun if you're lamenting a series loss before it's even started .  :) :D :D :D


What a difference 8 days make.

http://www.skysports.com/share/11128596 (http://www.skysports.com/share/11128596)

Here's a round up of how our Australian cousins are getting along. Looks like they've only got 7.


Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 16, 2017, 01:55:21 PM
What a difference 8 days make.

[url]http://www.skysports.com/share/11128596[/url] ([url]http://www.skysports.com/share/11128596[/url])

Here's a round up of how our Australian cousins are getting along. Looks like they've only got 7.




yes yes ....this is the type of cocky confidence i want ....when oz win it will be much sweeter this way .

if the 'leaked' side is the actual side we will still win . its just that certain blokes  (like marsh and paine)dont deserve a spot and so it is annoying and wrong on principal.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 16, 2017, 01:55:54 PM
#CalledIt

Impossible to predict this but you seem to have done it

Are u an Aussie insider in disguise?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Mr_Orange on November 16, 2017, 02:38:11 PM
What a difference 8 days make.

[url]http://www.skysports.com/share/11128596[/url] ([url]http://www.skysports.com/share/11128596[/url])

Here's a round up of how our Australian cousins are getting along. Looks like they've only got 7.


Caption competition from the pic in that article!

(http://e0.365dm.com/17/11/16-9/20/skysports-peter-nevill-new-south-wales-sheffield-shield-australia_4157201.jpg)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 16, 2017, 04:29:25 PM
Caption competition from the pic in that article!

"the Paine of missing out on selection"
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on November 16, 2017, 04:40:46 PM
([url]http://e0.365dm.com/17/11/16-9/20/skysports-peter-nevill-new-south-wales-sheffield-shield-australia_4157201.jpg[/url])


Mama say wash your cap, it is filthy and smelly!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 16, 2017, 05:43:19 PM
Looks like itís kicking off in the Aussie media-this time Stuart Broad is in the clear

McGill calls the selectors Ďmoronsí

Marvellous stuff
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 16, 2017, 07:41:25 PM
Wow , looks like the Fairfax media 'leaked' test side could be accurate -  both cricket australia website and espncricinfo are reporting it as such . Well , we'll have confirmation in a few hours,  i hope its all wrong and just a prank , but we'll still win regardless .
I wonder how on earth does shaun marsh get so many chances from selectors ?... it's not like he could have bribed all of them since the panel has changed so many times over the years . Maybe he mows their lawns on weekends or something .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 16, 2017, 07:45:22 PM
Wow , looks like the Fairfax media 'leaked' test side could be accurate -  both cricket australia website and espncricinfo are reporting it as such . Well , we'll have confirmation in a few hours,  i hope its all wrong and just a prank , but we'll still win regardless .
I wonder how on earth does shaun marsh get so many chances from selectors ?... it's not like he could have bribed all of them since the panel has changed so many times over the years . Maybe he mows their lawns on weekends or something .

Canít wait when England shock the world and win ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: brokenbat on November 16, 2017, 08:19:43 PM
I remember really liking Paine when he burst into the team. He's pretty good! No?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 16, 2017, 08:40:33 PM
I remember really liking Paine when he burst into the team. He's pretty good! No?

He has 1 1st class ton and 1st class average of 29.  :(
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 16, 2017, 08:42:01 PM
He has 1 1st class ton and 1st class average of 29.  :(


He's kept in 3 1st class games in the last 2 years ( ironically the same as bancroft , i think ).
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: InternalTraining on November 16, 2017, 09:31:55 PM
He has 1 1st class ton and 1st class average of 29.  :(

Wait a minute, what happened to the endless depth that team Aus is supposed to have?! I thought Sheilds cricket was second to none when producing top quality Test calibre cricketers. What am I missing here?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: 19reading87 on November 16, 2017, 10:08:15 PM
Squad announcement - as we expected.

Btw - those laughing about Tim Paine being included obviously havenít seen him keep much. Heís phenomenal. Haddin didnít take the gloves on a full time basis till this age. Personally, itís an excellent call from Australia.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Nmcgee on November 16, 2017, 10:08:46 PM
Wait a minute, what happened to the endless depth that team Aus is supposed to have?! I thought Sheilds cricket was second to none when producing top quality Test calibre cricketers. What am I missing here?

It is. They don't pick the best players though. They haven't for years. The two top run scorers for the last two seasons in the Shield have been told they are not required and given early retirement!

In fairness to Tim Paine he is one of the premier short form cricketers in this country and should have been playing test cricket years ago if not for that horrible broken finger.

Nevill better wash that NSW cap. He'll be using it permanently.......and I'd be picking travis head before marsh, without question.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Alvaro on November 16, 2017, 10:13:15 PM
Squad announcement - as we expected.

Btw - those laughing about Tim Paine being included obviously havenít seen him keep much. Heís phenomenal. Haddin didnít take the gloves on a full time basis till this age. Personally, itís an excellent call from Australia.

Haddin had the added bonus of being able to hit a ball with a stick into gaps as well as being a backstop.

Brett Geeves has nailed it here https://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/australia/geeves-the-decision-to-recall-shaun-marsh-for-the-ashes-stinks-to-high-heaven/news-story/f01978306ca566ea39c1d62e40098a73 (https://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/australia/geeves-the-decision-to-recall-shaun-marsh-for-the-ashes-stinks-to-high-heaven/news-story/f01978306ca566ea39c1d62e40098a73)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Nmcgee on November 16, 2017, 10:13:24 PM
And Chadd Sayers is finally in the national squad again. YES! Finally!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: skip1973 on November 16, 2017, 10:37:20 PM
Wait a minute, what happened to the endless depth that team Aus is supposed to have?! I thought Sheilds cricket was second to none when producing top quality Test calibre cricketers. What am I missing here?
Pat Howard.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 16, 2017, 10:48:36 PM
And Chadd Sayers is finally in the national squad again. YES! Finally!

Who?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: HellomynameisJ on November 16, 2017, 10:51:12 PM
I'm of the opinion Tim Paine would have 50 tests and at the very least a vice captaincy under his belt if he hadnt been desperately unlucky with his finger injury. Averages 35 in test cricket, also has an ODI ton, give the guy a break, Wade only takes the gloves for tasmania because he is (was) considered the test incumbent. I for one hope he can get 3 years of a career after having been robbed of many more, good luck lad.

Shaun Marsh is pretty consistantly the stand out and classiest player in sheild cricket, anyone better is already playing for australia, he isnt lucky to be recalled, he was unlucky to be dropped for the bangladesh tour in the first place. Have to feel for Renshaw, just lost form while Bancroft was finding his, bad timing for the lad.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: rickjames on November 16, 2017, 11:14:57 PM
I wish someone loved me as much as the Australian selectors love Shaun Marsh
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 16, 2017, 11:47:44 PM
I saw Tim Payne bat years back and yes looked good back then, and highly rated as a keeper before a bad injury.

But looking at his stats there's no case for a recall that makes any sense. He does not score enough runs and the stats show that in first class cricket. You could well argue he should of been playing a few years ago but selection is about now...if your picking a keeper only and forgetting about batting(!) we could of had the same dilemma with James foster and Chris read- both head and shoulders above anyone else but not enough batting wise to get picked over say Matt prior and now bairstow.

It the Shaun marsh one that is baffling thou to some over us. If he is 34 and not too old for a recall, then ed Cowan at 35 is too old to be recalled after showing some great form in the last couple of years.

Cowan if I have read correctly even had to make way for a younger player in his state team.

So if you want a younger guy fine, go with that but what's the difference between 34 years old and 35 ?

Someone is going to reply ' a year'  :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 16, 2017, 11:49:41 PM
I can live with the Paine selection.... he's as likely , if not more , to score a few runs when compared to wade and nevill in present form . I feel for Carey , but his time will come.
I think marsh has had 8 chances in the test side now...too many times he scores runs when there is no pressure and goes missing when we need him ( hey its 4/40 , where's shaun ? He's in now ! . What , he's left the ground to go lay under a tree ? Oh . ). But , at least he goes into the first test in good form , so hopefully we see the best of him.
Bancroft should be there for sure , but in an ideal world renshaw would be in good enough form , so bancroft could bat at six , and we'd have an established keeper making plenty of runs behind him at 7 .
I really like Sayers in the squad . He needs to play at Adelaide.  Maybe Lyon sits that one out .
I hope the english are getting all confident now . It's going to be a long weeks wait ....I'm looking forward to this .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 16, 2017, 11:53:23 PM
I saw Tim Payne bat years back and yes looked good back then, and highly rated as a keeper before a bad injury.

But looking at his stats there's no case for a recall that makes any sense. He does not score enough runs and the stats show that in first class cricket. You could well argue he should of been playing a few years ago but selection is about now...if your picking a keeper only and forgetting about batting(!) we could of had the same dilemma with James foster and Chris read- both head and shoulders above anyone else but not enough batting wise to get picked over say Matt prior and now bairstow.

It the Shaun marsh one that is baffling thou to some over us. If he is 34 and not too old for a recall, then ed Cowan at 35 is too old to be recalled after showing some great form in the last couple of years.

Cowan if I have read correctly even had to make way for a younger player in his state team.

So if you want a younger guy fine, go with that but what's the difference between 34 years old and 35 ?

Someone is going to reply ' a year'  :)


Ed cowan for p.m !
He's my favourite player , period .
He'd be in my test side any day of the week .
He has no chance of ever playing tests while d.lehmann is coach. For some reason he hates cowan .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: thedevil on November 17, 2017, 12:08:25 AM
I saw Tim Payne bat years back and yes looked good back then, and highly rated as a keeper before a bad injury.

But looking at his stats there's no case for a recall that makes any sense. He does not score enough runs and the stats show that in first class cricket. You could well argue he should of been playing a few years ago but selection is about now...if your picking a keeper only and forgetting about batting(!) we could of had the same dilemma with James foster and Chris read- both head and shoulders above anyone else but not enough batting wise to get picked over say Matt prior and now bairstow.

It the Shaun marsh one that is baffling thou to some over us. If he is 34 and not too old for a recall, then ed Cowan at 35 is too old to be recalled after showing some great form in the last couple of years.

Cowan if I have read correctly even had to make way for a younger player in his state team.

So if you want a younger guy fine, go with that but what's the difference between 34 years old and 35 ?

Someone is going to reply ' a year'  :)

365 Days  :D
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 17, 2017, 12:09:20 AM
Poor selections England have a boost minus Warner smith and the bowlers place vs place England are stronger, if the Aussie bowers stay for the series then England have issues however I donít think they willl! England 2-1 loss at Perth win Adelaide and Sydney draws gabba and mcg (possibly 3-1 eng win in Melbourne)

Several alcoholic beverages may have been consumed

COME ON ENGLAND
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 17, 2017, 12:19:09 AM
Poor selections England have a boost minus Warner smith and the bowlers place vs place England are stronger, if the Aussie bowers stay for the series then England have issues however I donít think they willl! England 2-1 loss at Perth win Adelaide and Sydney draws gabba and mcg (possibly 3-1 eng win in Melbourne)

Several alcoholic beverages may have been consumed

COME ON ENGLAND

Cook vs warner
stoneman vs Bancroft/Renshaw
Vince vs khawaja
root vs smith
malan vs Handscomb
bairstow vs Marsh
ali vs Paine
woakes vs Cummins
Overton vs starc
broad vs Hazlewood
anderson vs Lyon

Batting and bowling taken into consideration bold is winner on head to head in likely line ups, I have included Renshaw as I donít think Bancroft will last the series
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 17, 2017, 12:27:41 AM
Poor selections England have a boost minus Warner smith and the bowlers place vs place England are stronger, if the Aussie bowers stay for the series then England have issues however I donít think they willl! England 2-1 loss at Perth win Adelaide and Sydney draws gabba and mcg (possibly 3-1 eng win in Melbourne)

Several alcoholic beverages may have been consumed

COME ON ENGLAND


Duuuuuude !
How many times do you guys need to hear that handsomb and khawaja will make plenty of runs !
This outlandish predicting has forced my hand , so i will make my own outlandish predictions .....
3-1 oz - eng to win at Adelaide and rain to play a part in one draw .
If not , then the next most likely outcomes are 4-0 or 3-0 . Less likely, but possible 3-2 with eng winning at Adelaide and the mcg . But really , i doubt eng can win more than 1 test .
You guys have more faith in vince and malan than you should , and more faith in your bowlers than you should . Also , you cant expect cook to have another summer of 10-11 again . Personally , i think you need root and bairstow ( and to a lesser degree , ali) to carry the bulk of the batting load . I just dont think they can do it for 5 tests .Lastly, cummins and starc will be more firepower then your batsmen are ever likely to encounter...and paired with quick , bouncy wickets...... you dont realise just how hostile it's going to be . There will be fear factor x 2 .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 17, 2017, 12:30:18 AM
Cook vs warner
stoneman vs Bancroft/Renshaw
Vince vs khawaja
root vs smith
malan vs Handscomb
bairstow vs Marsh
ali vs Paine
woakes vs Cummins
Overton vs starc
broad vs Hazlewood
anderson vs Lyon

Batting and bowling taken into consideration bold is winner on head to head in likely line ups, I have included Renshaw as I donít think Bancroft will last the series


Malan over Handscomb.... not likely .
Anderson over Lyon ... not likely.
Broad over Hazlewood.....now you're just have a laugh , right ?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 17, 2017, 12:31:11 AM

Duuuuuude !
How many times do you guys need to hear that handsomb and khawaja will make plenty of runs !
This outlandish predicting has forced my hand , so i will make my own outlandish predictions .....
3-1 oz - eng to win at Adelaide and rain to play a part in one draw .
If not , then the next most likely outcomes are 4-0 or 3-0 . Less likely, but possible 3-2 with eng winning at Adelaide and the mcg . But really , i doubt eng can win more than 1 test .
You guys have more faith in vince and malan than you should , and more faith in your bowlers than you should . Also , you cant expect cook to have another summer of 10-11 again . Personally , i think you need root and bairstow ( and to a lesser degree , ali) to carry the bulk of the batting load . I just dont think they can do it for 5 tests .Lastly, cummins and starc will be more firepower then your batsmen are ever likely to encounter...and paired with quick , bouncy wickets...... you dont realise just how hostile it's going to be . There will be fear factor x 2 .

As I said you really think your quicks will be fit for all the tests?

Fear is fine except when we all know theyíll break down at some point...

I admit I am probably being overly enthusiastic about our chances but Australia are no way as strong as theyíre fans say, two decent batsman and a bowling attack which is injury prone, I canít wait for aus to be 10/20!for two and smith under pressure with a moving ball!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 17, 2017, 12:32:43 AM

Malan over Handscomb.... not likely .
Anderson over Lyon ... not likely.
Broad over Hazlewood.....now you're just have a laugh , right ?

Malan vs Handscomb likely
I can change to ali vs Lyon and have the same result and Iíd take a 300+ Test wickets over Hazlewood any day if the week
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 17, 2017, 12:45:23 AM
As I said you really think your quicks will be fit for all the tests?

Fear is fine except when we all know theyíll break down at some point...

I admit I am probably being overly enthusiastic about our chances but Australia are no way as strong as theyíre fans say, two decent batsman and a bowling attack which is injury prone, I canít wait for aus to be 10/20!for two and smith under pressure with a moving ball!



Your main mistake is thinking we only have two decent batsmen .
Also , starc and hazlewood will be fine . Cummins , who knows ....but starc and hazlewood with bird/sayers would be just fine by me . You guys have just as much to worry about re quick bowlers lasting the series . Broad is bowling slowly and looks tired . If anderson or woakes get injured you'll miss them more than if one of our bowlers goes down . And then what are you left with ? About as much as, or maybe less than , our reserve stocks .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: skip1973 on November 17, 2017, 01:15:24 AM
Be interesting, Anderson is an ordinary trundler here in Aus averaging nearly 40 and Broad very injury prone with only about 20 wickets at well over 30. Gut feeling is at home we should be way to good for England, hopefully it's some good hard competitive cricket.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Nmcgee on November 17, 2017, 03:15:22 AM
Who?

Chadd Sayers is, statistically, the best domestic bowler in Australia over the last 18 months.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Nmcgee on November 17, 2017, 03:33:29 AM


Your main mistake is thinking we only have two decent batsmen .
Also , starc and hazlewood will be fine . Cummins , who knows ....but starc and hazlewood with bird/sayers would be just fine by me . You guys have just as much to worry about re quick bowlers lasting the series . Broad is bowling slowly and looks tired . If anderson or woakes get injured you'll miss them more than if one of our bowlers goes down . And then what are you left with ? About as much as, or maybe less than , our reserve stocks .

Pat Cummins has been poor so far this season and is notoriously brittle. Let's hope Sayers plays before he does.

@Biggie Smalls , what's the chances that Wade will now become a T20 mercenary on the world tour? Test career is cooked, unfavoured even in Tasmania apparently. Can't see him playing too many games for Clarence in Tassie.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 17, 2017, 05:06:29 AM
Pat Cummins has been poor so far this season and is notoriously brittle. Let's hope Sayers plays before he does.

@Biggie Smalls , what's the chances that Wade will now become a T20 mercenary on the world tour? Test career is cooked, unfavoured even in Tasmania apparently. Can't see him playing too many games for Clarence in Tassie.


i can see him moving back to Melbourne hoping he can leapfrog seb gotch etc. you're probably right he could become a t20 gun for hire.....only problem is the gun is really firing atm ! he did concede if he didn't get picked for this test then his test career is over....that may make his decision easier too.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 17, 2017, 05:07:48 AM
and yeah @Nmcgee if cummins goes down and sayers gets the nod it could be a blessing in disguise.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 17, 2017, 06:52:40 AM
100 for malan too!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on November 17, 2017, 06:55:40 AM
Aussie members - whatís the reaction to Paine being selected?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 17, 2017, 07:45:00 AM
The media reaction is one of mid level shock .
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: csnew on November 17, 2017, 08:10:55 AM
How many more chances can Marsh get. Anyone know what the count is now??
Most chances any test cricketer has had?
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: skip1973 on November 17, 2017, 08:20:35 AM
In and out 8 times.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: springbok45 on November 17, 2017, 08:22:51 AM
How many more chances can Marsh get. Anyone know what the count is now??
Most chances any test cricketer has had?

9th recall according to the radio this morning.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 17, 2017, 10:36:12 AM
Be interesting, Anderson is an ordinary trundler here in Aus averaging nearly 40 and Broad very injury prone with only about 20 wickets at well over 30. Gut feeling is at home we should be way to good for England, hopefully it's some good hard competitive cricket.

Although correct don't forget England have Chris Woakes
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 17, 2017, 10:43:40 AM
Although correct don't forget England have Chris Woakes

Jaws around the land break upon impact with the floor as @Seniorplayer sticks up for Woakes......
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 17, 2017, 10:54:07 AM
Jaws around the land break upon impact with the floor as @Seniorplayer sticks up for Woakes......

Well he is playing for England.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on November 17, 2017, 11:07:00 AM
Amazing to think that in 2015 Tim Paine was Banbury's overseas player in the HCPL.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: HellomynameisJ on November 17, 2017, 11:09:11 AM
Cook vs warner
stoneman vs Bancroft/Renshaw
Vince vs khawaja
root vs smith
malan vs Handscomb
bairstow vs Marsh
ali vs Paine
woakes vs Cummins
Overton vs starc
broad vs Hazlewood
anderson vs Lyon

Batting and bowling taken into consideration bold is winner on head to head in likely line ups, I have included Renshaw as I donít think Bancroft will last the series

STONEMAN Av: 30 hs of 52 vs RENSHAW av: 36 hs of 184.
MALAN Av: 23 hs of 65 vs HANDSCOMB Av: 53 hs of 110.

What drugs are you taking and where can I get them?

Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on November 17, 2017, 02:00:00 PM
STONEMAN Av: 30 hs of 52 vs RENSHAW av: 36 hs of 184.
MALAN Av: 23 hs of 65 vs HANDSCOMB Av: 53 hs of 110.

What drugs are you taking and where can I get them?


When it comes to the Ashes averages mean nothing... it is all about who can handle the pressure and stand up and put in the real performances that win you the matches.... who has the kahunas!!

Example - 2013/14 last time we were in Oz, when we lost 5-0 - Johnson got all the headlines (and rightly so) but if Haddin had not stood up in the key moments and got runs (when the top 5 had got not much at all) when it mattered for Oz then that series would have been a lot closer.

I can't wait till next week!


Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 17, 2017, 02:31:47 PM
How many more chances can Marsh get. Anyone know what the count is now??
Most chances any test cricketer has had?


8 or 9 times.....so that makes s.marsh a cat !
He sure does bat like a pussy sometimes .  ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 17, 2017, 03:20:02 PM
STONEMAN Av: 30 hs of 52 vs RENSHAW av: 36 hs of 184.
MALAN Av: 23 hs of 65 vs HANDSCOMB Av: 53 hs of 110.

What drugs are you taking and where can I get them?

Iím talking who Iíd rather have in my side and who I think will have the better series,

And it was alcohol and any local supermarket/offie/pub?  ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: edge on November 17, 2017, 05:31:50 PM
On Stoneman vs Bancroft, I reckon Stoneman is unlikely to be made to look as much of a muppet as Bancroft is in the first clip of this video ;)

https://twitter.com/SussexCCC/status/930165680376336389
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: it's_a_pudding on November 17, 2017, 06:04:48 PM
Anyone noticed Ben Stokes Instagram over last hour? Having a bowl off his full run up at Durham and labelling his blank bats up with redbull branding. A further sign of him going to ashes? Think it's a bit late to be involved with 1st test but likely 2nd.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Sam on November 17, 2017, 07:20:23 PM
Anyone noticed Ben Stokes Instagram over last hour? Having a bowl off his full run up at Durham and labelling his blank bats up with redbull branding. A further sign of him going to ashes? Think it's a bit late to be involved with 1st test but likely 2nd.

Got a link to these? Can't seem to see them personally.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Big Mac on November 17, 2017, 07:40:27 PM
Although correct don't forget England have Chris Woakes

(https://i.imgur.com/paCDaZq.gif)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: richyreed on November 17, 2017, 07:42:40 PM
Got a link to these? Can't seem to see them personally.

https://storiesig.com/stories/stokesy
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: iand123 on November 17, 2017, 08:39:51 PM
Anyone noticed Ben Stokes Instagram over last hour? Having a bowl off his full run up at Durham and labelling his blank bats up with redbull branding. A further sign of him going to ashes? Think it's a bit late to be involved with 1st test but likely 2nd.

You have to see his Instagram story to see them. Looks like just the back red bull he always had on blank bats
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: HellomynameisJ on November 17, 2017, 10:52:12 PM
On Stoneman vs Bancroft, I reckon Stoneman is unlikely to be made to look as much of a muppet as Bancroft is in the first clip of this video ;)

https://twitter.com/SussexCCC/status/930165680376336389


I think Starc is very likely to make Stoneman look a bit of a mupped at times
 
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Nmcgee on November 18, 2017, 02:33:34 AM

When it comes to the Ashes averages mean nothing... it is all about who can handle the pressure and stand up and put in the real performances that win you the matches.... who has the kahunas.

Well said.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 18, 2017, 06:32:17 AM
If its about who has the 'kahunas'  then Handscomb and khawaja will be the only blokes doing any good ! I think the word we are looking for is 'cajones'.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: six and out on November 18, 2017, 06:57:57 PM
If its about who has the 'kahunas'  then Handscomb and khawaja will be the only blokes doing any good ! I think the word we are looking for is 'cajones'.

Lol... very good mate... apologies for my spelling etc... I feel my point got across none the less.
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on November 18, 2017, 10:44:14 PM
Howd England bowlers do yesterday?  ;)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: LateBloomer on November 18, 2017, 10:54:43 PM
Howd England bowlers do yesterday?  ;)

Deliberate ploy to confuse the Aussie selectors. Those 2 lads that had runs will be batting 4&5 in Adelaide. Paul Reiffel also called up as back up to Hazlewood after taking a 4fer in 1998
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 18, 2017, 11:17:16 PM
If you add everything into the mix incl the Aussie selections which seem to be odd for a lot of us over here, Home conditions , Starc Cummins Hazlewood Warner and smith

Cook root bairstow and our bowlers and a more settled team than Australia ......

On paper it looks a close series, I don't think either side can say they are real favourites to win

It might not be real quality but it could be close, and if it's close its exciting

First test can't come soon enough...it's dark damp and cold over here! Not cricket weather at all.  :)
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: LateBloomer on November 18, 2017, 11:35:50 PM

On paper it looks a close series, I don't think either side can say they are real favourites to win


I think you are kidding yourself if you dont make Australia large favorites. They are in the eyes of all bookies

Whilst they might lack intellect, they do have a bloody good pace attack



Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: golders on November 18, 2017, 11:43:40 PM
I think we (England) are going to really struggle to take wickets,can see the Aussies piling on the runs. I also think the extra pace that the Aussies have will make all the difference.Fear we will struggle...hope in wrong!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: manno on November 19, 2017, 12:12:18 AM
Maybe too much is being made of the aussie pace attack. Yeah, on a whole itll be quicker than the poms but thats not really the measure of how successful they'll be. The bowling comparison doesn't reflect the ability of your batting lineup to play pace. Which im assuming you can. And i can't imagine (as much as i hope) that Broad and Anderson have all of a sudden forgotten how to take wickets. So for me thats not a factor either. Itll be a tight series. Oh and Ecb and the plod will hurry stokes over as soon as they think any backlash will have subsided to a managable level. Likely in time for the second test. And that makes things even tighter. Can not wait for Thursday!!!
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 19, 2017, 09:47:35 AM
If you add everything into the mix incl the Aussie selections which seem to be odd for a lot of us over here, Home conditions , Starc Cummins Hazlewood Warner and smith

Cook root bairstow and our bowlers and a more settled team than Australia ......
O
On paper it looks a close series, I don't think either side can say they are real favourites to win

It might not be real quality but it could be close, and if it's close its exciting

First test can't come soon enough...it's dark damp and cold over here! Not cricket weather at all.  :)

Agree  it  could be close Aussies bang on about home advantage and  what there  bowling attack is going to do  but if the ball doesn't swing  do England have the bowlers to take 20 wickets each test
Title: Re: Ashes 2017-18
Post by: ppccopener on November 19, 2017, 10:41:40 AM
Yes could be. I think England will seriously think about playing Mason Crane for variety, but he cannot get in the team at the expense of a seamer that leaves us too short in Aussie conditions.

If Stokes was in the side it makes it easier to play another spinner(Crane), as it is now can't see how 2 spinners get in to the team.

Announcement on whether Stokes is charged by police this week. If he is not charged I'm sure he will play a part from second test onwards.

If he is charged there's no way he will take part in the tour at all

In my view anyway.