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pablomarmite

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League structures
« on: September 24, 2017, 06:41:30 PM »

Now the season is over it is interesting to see how the promotion and relegation has panned out in the different sections in the league. A very unusual case was a club 5s won the title while their 4s in same league/section were almost relegated. In fact the 5s beat the 4s in both games. I am personally against teams from the same club in the same league/section but appear to be a lone voice on this matter in our area. Do many other leagues around the country allow this? And if so are there any other examples of a lower side outdoing the more senior one? I know at our club there is no way the the lower side would beat the higher one if standard selection took place.
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Woodyspin

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Re: League structures
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2017, 07:03:27 PM »

Our league automatically promote the other team too. Not allowed 2 teams in same division.

ppccopener

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Re: League structures
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2017, 07:04:52 PM »

It's not allowed in the Middlesex league to have 2 elevens from the same club in the same division, and rightly so, it's complete nonsense.

If the 5th beat the 4ths and it's not a one off, ie they are a stronger side something is fundamentally wrong there.

As a more general point on league structure if anyone knows how the Middlesex changes will work for 2018 please post.

The 2 highest leagues are Middlesex championship div 1(my league in 2nds) and the middx county league. As I understand it a new div 4 of the county league is being created and we go in there from next year being a div 1 side. So out of the championship and into the county league.

On the point of lower teams beating or being better team generally def not in my experience. We have some good players in our twos and would give our ones a good game but not favourites to win at all.

Our thirds and forths are mostly...the third and forth best players in the club(out of 4 teams) as case could be made for one or two maybe playing in a higher team, but very very few.
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pablomarmite

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Re: League structures
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2017, 07:33:59 PM »

It's not allowed in the Middlesex league to have 2 elevens from the same club in the same division, and rightly so, it's complete nonsense.

If the 5th beat the 4ths and it's not a one off, ie they are a stronger side something is fundamentally wrong there.

As a more general point on league structure if anyone knows how the Middlesex changes will work for 2018 please post.

The 2 highest leagues are Middlesex championship div 1(my league in 2nds) and the middx county league. As I understand it a new div 4 of the county league is being created and we go in there from next year being a div 1 side. So out of the championship and into the county league.

On the point of lower teams beating or being better team generally def not in my experience. We have some good players in our twos and would give our ones a good game but not favourites to win at all.

Our thirds and forths are mostly...the third and forth best players in the club(out of 4 teams) as case could be made for one or two maybe playing in a higher team, but very very few.

I totally agree it is complete nonsense. I suggested we should raise it at the league AGM but no one at my club was interested didn't think it was a big deal. Unsurprisingly it is the same two or three players getting all the runs and wickets. The fixtures can be played on Saturday or Sunday so they always play alternate days. Only time they play on same day is against each other!
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Seniorplayer

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Re: League structures
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2017, 07:36:58 PM »

Know of one club where they mix up fourths and fifths teams to give the sides more of an equal balance
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GoodLeave

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Re: League structures
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2017, 07:54:10 PM »

Not in the SYSCL (South Yorkshire)

2's can't be promoted into the 1's division, even if they aren't in the same district. E.g 2's can't be promoted out of division 3 West if 1's are in division 2 East (Lets not get into how 1's and 2's can be in different districts)

2's are relegated out of their division if the 1's get relegated, even if the 2's win the league!

Unless I'm mistaken.

What's the point of 5's playing 4's in the same division anyway? What if someone gets relegated on the result of the same club playing each other?
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pablomarmite

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Re: League structures
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2017, 08:10:53 PM »



What's the point of 5's playing 4's in the same division anyway? What if someone gets relegated on the result of the same club playing each other?

Exactly it is open to manipulation. The leagues only have 8 sides so has an even bigger impact on the league outcomes. I wonder will they rename their 5s the 4s next season! Once it looked like 5s had won a few and 4s hadn't they have managed selection to get one of the sides promoted.
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hopwoodbear

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Re: League structures
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2017, 11:43:57 AM »

the ecb seem determined to restructure a lot of their regional premier competitions

near me they plan to scrap the bottom 2 divisions of existing 'birmingham league' shunting those bottom 20 odd clubs back into their respective county feeder leagues (worcestershire, staffs, warwickshire etc)

other than a desire to improve the quality of the league by making it more exclusive i'm not sure on the motivation behind this?

there is also talk of my league (worcs) changing to a single ladder system rather than 1st and 2nd XI divisions, this is something the warwickshire league moved to a few years ago....not a fan of the idea tbh, anyone think it works better this way?

 
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Seniorplayer

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Re: League structures
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2017, 11:50:03 AM »

the ecb seem determined to restructure a lot of their regional premier competitions

near me they plan to scrap the bottom 2 divisions of existing 'birmingham league' shunting those bottom 20 odd clubs back into their respective county feeder leagues (worcestershire, staffs, warwickshire etc)

other than a desire to improve the quality of the league by making it more exclusive i'm not sure on the motivation behind this?

there is also talk of my league (worcs) changing to a single ladder system rather than 1st and 2nd XI divisions, this is something the warwickshire league moved to a few years ago....not a fan of the idea tbh, anyone think it works better this way?

 

Wasn't it on the Worcs county league website that  it was voted on and the single ladder system lost by one vote.
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treefeller

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Re: League structures
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2017, 11:52:31 AM »

Wasn't it on the Worcs county league website that  it was voted on and the single ladder system lost by one vote.

I'm not sure it's been decided yet, I've seen an email talking about a restructure for 2019/20
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six and out

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Re: League structures
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2017, 12:15:21 PM »

FCCL have a rule that no club can have 2 sides in the same division and it must be the higher XI in the higher division etc...

It has brought about some interesting scenarios when you have clubs with their different XI's only division apart and 1 should get promoted and/or 1 should get relegated - so therefore the committee have to decide what to do about promotion and relegation to make up the right numbers.

But it is the only way to do it otherwise you can get into all sorts of possible situations where clubs possibly fix things.

@pablomarmite - Can i ask does the league play the fixture between the 2 XI's at the start of the season to reduce the risk of fixing the game?
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uknsaunders

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Re: League structures
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2017, 11:20:00 PM »

Surely the club should only have there 4th XI promoted? Highest team goes up. The alternative is to fine the club for not playing its strongest 4th XI. That club sounds seriously screwed up!
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LcWoodward

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Re: League structures
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2017, 01:02:26 PM »

Not in the SYSCL (South Yorkshire)

2's can't be promoted into the 1's division, even if they aren't in the same district. E.g 2's can't be promoted out of division 3 West if 1's are in division 2 East (Lets not get into how 1's and 2's can be in different districts)

2's are relegated out of their division if the 1's get relegated, even if the 2's win the league!

Unless I'm mistaken.

What's the point of 5's playing 4's in the same division anyway? What if someone gets relegated on the result of the same club playing each other?

That's Right.....It's just happened in our league Shiregreen couldn't go up as there 1st had been relegated.

Who do you play for @GoodLeave ?
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GoodLeave

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Re: League structures
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2017, 02:00:33 PM »

That's Right.....It's just happened in our league Shiregreen couldn't go up as there 1st had been relegated.

Who do you play for @GoodLeave ?

@LcWoodward Penistone 2's, but haven't played at all this season, had other stuff on. Hoping to get back into it next season though. Looks like Maltby just managed to stay up, well done. Looks like you average 80 against us!

I hadn't noticed that the old North/South/East/West had disappeared (Shows how much attention I've been paying!), glad though, was a bit daft that we had a team in East and West. With the restructure though both teams were out of their ideal league, we should be more suited to the standard next season with both of our teams dropping down one.

Didn't realise how tight it was in Div 3 though, 22 points the different between champions and relegated? Brutal.
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LcWoodward

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Re: League structures
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2017, 04:04:59 PM »

It was a crazy division and the loan system defiantly played into some teams hands quiet a lot. Yeah just managed to stay up despite being 3rd with 6 games to go.
They got rid of the regional  stuff a few years back because one side of the regions became a lot easier than others.
It was a shame to see your first team go down, decent set of lads and a nice ground to go too.
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