Fastest domestic bowler?
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northernboy1987

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Re: Fastest domestic bowler?
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2018, 09:31:47 AM »

The problem we have is that speed alone won't cut it. They need to be able to bowl accurately too, have a bit of nous if the pitch is slow or their pace drops over a long day and also stay fit. Wood, for example, looks great on a quick pitch in his first spell zipping it past peoples throats but after his first spell he rarely looks threatening as he doesn't move the ball. The last part is where we seem to have the biggest problem though, the 4 quickest county bowlers over the past few years (Wood, Mills, Meaker, Footit) are never fit for more than a month at a time, I know Mills is a long standing condition so that rules him out but would you have any confidence in keeping any of the others fit over a full Aussie tour? Finn has the same problem, he was rapid before he changed his action but he's always injured too.
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Kulli

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Re: Fastest domestic bowler?
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2018, 09:34:24 AM »

What he said.

What annoys me is people saying we need pace, what we need is quality pace like the Aussies have. Starc, Cummins and Hazelwood are all top class bowlers, not just wheels.
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northernboy1987

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Re: Fastest domestic bowler?
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2018, 09:39:52 AM »

What he said.

What annoys me is people saying we need pace, what we need is quality pace like the Aussies have. Starc, Cummins and Hazelwood are all top class bowlers, not just wheels.

Yup. Hazlewood bowls quick but he's accurate and gets great seam movement, Starc and Cummins are absolute gas but like you say they're top bowlers, on a pudding or an Indian turner they're not afraid to take the pitch out of the equation and try and crush your toes.
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Rob580

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Re: Fastest domestic bowler?
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2018, 09:44:40 AM »

Yes, totally agreed.

But.....

You've got more chance of teaching a raw FAST bowler the nuances of bowling (swing, seam etc) than you have teaching someone with all the skills how to bowl at that pace. You can teach skill, you can't teach pace.

Admittedly, some coaches claim that you can teach pace, however that really is only up to a point. You can train most athletes to bowl at 85mph, but anything more is nature rather than nurture.  See Chris Woakes for example.
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northernboy1987

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Re: Fastest domestic bowler?
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2018, 09:51:08 AM »

Yes, totally agreed.

But.....

You've got more chance of teaching a raw FAST bowler the nuances of bowling (swing, seam etc) than you have teaching someone with all the skills how to bowl at that pace. You can teach skill, you can't teach pace.

Admittedly, some coaches claim that you can teach pace, however that really is only up to a point. You can train most athletes to bowl at 85mph, but anything more is nature rather than nurture.  See Chris Woakes for example.

Agreed. Pace isn't everything, else Shaun Tait would have more test wickets than Glenn McGrath :D

I think you need to get them young though, someone like Garton, you're not gonna teach Footit anything new now (don't know a lot about him so I'm not suggesting he's not skillful, just happens to be the right age to get my point across!) at his age.
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springbok45

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Re: Fastest domestic bowler?
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2018, 10:30:01 AM »


Not sure if he's been mentioned but Tom Barber at Middlesex is the fastest they've ever clocked at the National Academy at 94mph.

Really, I thought that was Meaker at 97mph on his first visit to Loughborough
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FattusCattus

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Re: Fastest domestic bowler?
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2018, 10:41:51 AM »

I reckon instead of raw pace, you also need to look at the really tall, gangly ones too (ie something different). Overton showed in bits that he could be awkward to face - work on that.

Bairstow says Morkel is a nightmare to face when it clicks, Tremlett wasn't express and Curtley often bowled within himself, letting his awkward length do the trick.

If we can't unearth fasties that can't stay fit, lets work on variety -

Tall ones - Get to work on mastery and variety of length, not outright pace
Left Armers - There's a few around the English scene
Genuine Swingers - Philander is not express
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LateBloomer

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Re: Fastest domestic bowler?
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2018, 10:50:16 AM »

All this talk of express pace has me thinking back to when Shoaib hit 100mph mid over for Pakistan and acknowledged the crowd for doing so  :D  akin to a batsman raising his bat for hitting a glorious straight 6. What a showman

I have seen Meaker bowl live and, although he was rapid, think he only took 1 wicket while a medium pacer called Tim Linley took 4fer at the other end.
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Manormanic

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Re: Fastest domestic bowler?
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2018, 10:57:30 AM »

All this talk of express pace has me thinking back to when Shoaib hit 100mph mid over for Pakistan and acknowledged the crowd for doing so  :D  akin to a batsman raising his bat for hitting a glorious straight 6. What a showman

To be fair, its rather more remarkable getting to 100mph than it is tapping a maximum nowadays!
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LateBloomer

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Re: Fastest domestic bowler?
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2018, 10:58:22 AM »

Yes, totally agreed.

But.....

You've got more chance of teaching a raw FAST bowler the nuances of bowling (swing, seam etc) than you have teaching someone with all the skills how to bowl at that pace. You can teach skill, you can't teach pace.

Admittedly, some coaches claim that you can teach pace, however that really is only up to a point.

Agree with this 100%. Anderson and Simon Jones are two examples of bowlers that got in through being pacey and expanded their skill set from there
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LateBloomer

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Re: Fastest domestic bowler?
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2018, 11:01:41 AM »

To be fair, its rather more remarkable getting to 100mph than it is tapping a maximum nowadays!

It is but it is still an incidental achievement - I think the ball went to fine leg for a single! I was in admiration of Shoaibs nonchalance then and still am now. Shortly after that he was struck off with Genital Warts
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Manormanic

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Re: Fastest domestic bowler?
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2018, 11:02:17 AM »

I reckon instead of raw pace, you also need to look at the really tall, gangly ones too (ie something different). Overton showed in bits that he could be awkward to face - work on that.

Bairstow says Morkel is a nightmare to face when it clicks, Tremlett wasn't express and Curtley often bowled within himself, letting his awkward length do the trick.

This is a valid point - pace is really about reaction time, and you can affect that just as much by reducing the batsman's ability to pre-determine where the ball will come from (hence why bowlers like Chris Woakes with pure actions can look popgun yet bowlers who are slower in literal terms can have batsmen very uncomfortable).  Tall bowlers are particularly tricky in Australian conditions - if they locate a nice length, just back of a good one, they can cause all kinda of issues.
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edge

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Re: Fastest domestic bowler?
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2018, 02:14:08 PM »

You can definitely teach pace, to an extent anyway - no coach in the world could make Darren Stevens 90mph! Craig Overton would definitely be a ripe example for improvement (and has said he's going to try to get quicker), he's awkward to face and skilful already, takes his FC wickets at a great average, and his genetically identical twin brother bowls gas. No reason he couldn't put on 5-10mph! Woakes turned himself from a county trundler into an international bowler by putting on yards, think he just didn't bowl very well in Australia.
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northernboy1987

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Re: Fastest domestic bowler?
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2018, 02:18:48 PM »

You can definitely teach pace, to an extent anyway - no coach in the world could make Darren Stevens 90mph! Craig Overton would definitely be a ripe example for improvement (and has said he's going to try to get quicker), he's awkward to face and skilful already, takes his FC wickets at a great average, and his genetically identical twin brother bowls gas. No reason he couldn't put on 5-10mph! Woakes turned himself from a county trundler into an international bowler by putting on yards, think he just didn't bowl very well in Australia.

I don't think Woakes was 100% match ready for the Ashes tbh. He's a prime of example of adding a good bit of pace, when he had his breakthrough home summer he was consistently bowling high 80's and flirting with the 90's
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