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Author Topic: Moeen retires from test cricket.  (Read 2367 times)

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mr_reagan

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Re: Moeen retires from test cricket.
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2021, 03:58:18 PM »

whilst 18 wickets at 31 is not brilliant - it is hardly rubbish either

Without the context of conditions ect its hard to judge based just off stats. However the way some people talk about him on this forum you would think hes the second coming of Swann. Considering his age and the fact hes not exactly ripping up trees in the county game id like to see us go younger.   
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More Glue Than Wood

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Re: Moeen retires from test cricket.
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2021, 04:05:30 PM »

Without the context of conditions ect its hard to judge based just off stats. However the way some people talk about him on this forum you would think hes the second coming of Swann. Considering his age and the fact hes not exactly ripping up trees in the county game id like to see us go younger.   

agree - unfortunately like with the batting we don't have a spinner tearing it up in county cricket - and the england selectors will care more about their batting and fielding than whether they can bowl anyway  :D :D 
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ppccopener

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Re: Moeen retires from test cricket.
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2021, 06:48:51 PM »

Leach has been in and around most squads from the last 18 months and hardly played, extra cover for Covid plus a healthy dose of mis management by England means he has only been released for very few games for his County.

I doubt he even knows what form he is in good or bad he has hardly played.

Theres a right load of toilet written on this forum sometimes, fair enough we all debate who should play and who is the best spinner but to say he should be dropped for bad form is just nonsense-he doesnt have any form.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2021, 06:50:23 PM by ppccopener »
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Jimbo

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Re: Moeen retires from test cricket.
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2021, 08:31:41 PM »

whilst 18 wickets at 31 is not brilliant - it is hardly rubbish either

Interested to know how his economy rate was. That was a big part of Mo's game that always frustrated, could not tie down an end to save his life.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Moeen retires from test cricket.
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2021, 08:58:50 PM »

Ali probably played ahead of Leach this summer because the tail was long with the unavailability of Stokes and Woakes?

I liked Moeen Ali but him being England 3rd highest spin- bowling wicket-taker of all-time owes a lot to him playing in an era when there was often literally no alternative.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2021, 09:06:17 PM by Bats_Entertainment »
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SD

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Re: Moeen retires from test cricket.
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2021, 09:08:47 PM »

The 18 wickets he took in 14 innings in the county championship this year at an average of 31 really set him apart. Brilliant form.

I think there is an under appreciation of just how ill he was two winters ago.  His form this summer hasn't at justified selection and on pitches where India have left out a spinner with 400 test wickets, it is hardly a surprise England went for a batting option
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jp2408

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Re: Moeen retires from test cricket.
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2021, 09:09:40 PM »

Interested to know how his economy rate was. That was a big part of Mo's game that always frustrated, could not tie down an end to save his life.

Leach's test economy rate is 3.01 vs Mooen's 3.61. In first class games that is 2.7 -> 3.53.

Leach's test strike rate is 59.7 vs Moeen's 60.7. In first class games that is 58.7 -> 64.3.

He takes wickets faster and concedes fewer runs. Granted Leach has probably on average played on more spinner friendly wickets than Mooen who has played a much higher proportion of his tests at home and clearly a higher proportion of his FC games not at Taunton.

As for the comment that at 30 Leach is too old to be trusted and we should focus on someone younger.. Herath played 14 tests before the age of 30 and ended up with 433 test wickets (398 over the age of 30).

I am not saying Leach is a world beater, but he is currently the most experienced test spinner and best FC spinner we have, has never disgraced himself and deserves a chance to develop with a settled role in the side. Maybe in time we will be able to afford to pick Crane or Parkinson as a luxury pick and allow them to prove themselves, but with no stokes adding seam bowling depth to the middle order we need someone who can hold up an end and pick up wickets when the conditions suit - Leach deserves that chance IMO.
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Jimbo

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Re: Moeen retires from test cricket.
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2021, 09:57:29 PM »

Leach isn't a complete mug with the bat either. No, he's not an all-rounder but is he any less likely than Curran/Broad/Wood to put on a partnership with someone?
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mr_reagan

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Re: Moeen retires from test cricket.
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2021, 01:03:32 AM »

Leach has been in and around most squads from the last 18 months and hardly played, extra cover for Covid plus a healthy dose of mis management by England means he has only been released for very few games for his County.

I doubt he even knows what form he is in good or bad he has hardly played.

Theres a right load of toilet written on this forum sometimes, fair enough we all debate who should play and who is the best spinner but to say he should be dropped for bad form is just nonsense-he doesnt have any form.

He played 10 games. Its a big enough sample size to say hes not in form. Now its hard to justify taking a new spinner to Aus, would be like taking a lamb to slaughter but Leach isnt the long term answer. To be frank hes most likely going to have a torrid time on tour, im fairly certain any spinner we take will. The best in the world have gone there and struggled. At least that will mean we get to see some new blood in the summer next year. We wont win anything with out current batting line up so we we might as well use this time we arent competitive to get a good look at our spin options.
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Alvaro

Re: Moeen retires from test cricket.
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2021, 01:10:39 PM »

Ali probably played ahead of Leach this summer because the tail was long with the unavailability of Stokes and Woakes?

I liked Moeen Ali but him being England 3rd highest spin- bowling wicket-taker of all-time owes a lot to him playing in an era when there was often literally no alternative.

John Emburey was chosen for the same number of Tests, for fewer wickets, at a cost of 2 more runs per wicket. He was a spin bowler by trade and chosen ahead of other viable alternatives.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Moeen retires from test cricket.
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2021, 07:24:50 PM »

John Emburey was chosen for the same number of Tests, for fewer wickets, at a cost of 2 more runs per wicket. He was a spin bowler by trade and chosen ahead of other viable alternatives.

Interesting. Thanks for pointing this out.
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Mtown Don

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Re: Moeen retires from test cricket.
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2021, 08:43:29 PM »

If you then go back through Panesar, Giles, Tufnell and Edmonds, you realise that its only been Swann since Underwood that has had a significantly better record statistically.
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