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Author Topic: Thoughts after England vs WI first day  (Read 435 times)

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jdj31

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Thoughts after England vs WI first day
« on: August 18, 2017, 10:34:53 AM »

So, what have we actually learnt after the first day of pink ball Test cricket in the UK? These are the main talking points that occurred to me during it:

- The media are far, far too quick to be negative about newcomers to the team. During the first session I heard certain commentators refer to the performances of Stoneman and Westley as 'failures'. I disagree with this on so many levels - Westley has not been around for long and has shown some real promise in his short career so far, and Stoneman was playing his very first international innings. Any good player gets a low score, we don't go around branding Cook or Root or Stokes a failure after a low score or two, so why the different treatment for new boys? Throw in the fact that the pink ball adds an extra level of challenge and mystery, and I found myself quite irritated at this appraisal. A less negative assessment from the media would probably aid the development of the players too, helping them bed into the team without fear of imminent witch-hunt.
- The West Indies really have become poor - their standards in all regards that we've seen so far have been sub-standard. The bowling lacks pace, which is fine if you have consistency, but dangerous if not. They haven't selected a specialist spinner, and Roston Chase's spin is very, very 'part-time' indeed. Perhaps one of the most indicative signs of one of the areas in which the problems lie is the fact that the Windies' two best performers in their previous pink ball Test, Darren Bravo and Devendra Bishoo, aren't playing in this match - board disputes and selection woes have hurt the side badly, particularly in the longest form.
- We haven't actually learnt anything about the pink ball yet. It needs to be put in the hands of a Jimmy Anderson or Stuart Broad to really see its properties. I expect it to be very useful in the hands of Moeen Ali later on in the Test.
- Woakes should have been selected. He had been playing that well for England for a sustained period before his injury that he deserves his place back immediately upon recovery. His selection doesn't exactly weaken the batting - Woakes at 8 is the perfect balance for me. However, I do see the logic in giving Malan an extended run to prove himself, but I just have the nagging feeling that unless he does something extraordinary very soon, he is just keeping the place warm for the return of Woakes. My XI for this Test would have been as follows: Cook, Stoneman, Westley, Root, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Roland-Jones, Broad, Anderson.

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on these issues.
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tate035

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Re: Thoughts after England vs WI first day
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2017, 10:57:49 AM »

Woakes not had enough match time since his injury ( Root's comments)  plus this test not as important as the Ashes where many people believe Woakes will have a good series with the ball.
As for Malan?  going forward I believe 4,5,6 and 7 should be Root, Stokes, Bairstow and Ali... Plus I genuinely believe there are better batters out there who could play 5... :(
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Sivlar13

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Re: Thoughts after England vs WI first day
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2017, 11:01:01 AM »

Stoneman got an absolute jaffer, don't think anyone could have played that ball. Malay could do with a hundred today, fingers crossed for his sake!

Moving forward, is Hales a number 5/6 option? Or Roy?
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Biggie Smalls

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Re: Thoughts after England vs WI first day
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2017, 11:05:50 AM »

I dont see a need for 5 pace bowlers .
Stokes , ali, woakes, broad ,trj ... that would be my bowling lineup for ecb for the start of the ashes , so why not pick them now if possible ?
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petehosk

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Re: Thoughts after England vs WI first day
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2017, 11:17:06 AM »

I suspect that Root had a similar conversation to below:

JR: Hi CW. I know you looked great in your last County outing but would you mind having a rest?
CW: Why Cap'n?
JR: You are a defo for the Ashes so no worries there! But wanted to take better and longer look at TRJ to see which seat to give him on the reserve bench?
CW: Of course!

A fit Woakes will be in the starting XI so no point in playing him if they already know he is 1st XI!
If Woakes was playing it would be Woakes in and TRJ bringing the drinks on.
 

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ppccopener

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Re: Thoughts after England vs WI first day
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2017, 11:18:15 AM »

Not sure anyone else thinks this but looking at malan I'm prepared to be convinced he could do well
Bit hard to explain...he looks comfortable to me and calm

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HallamKeeper

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Re: Thoughts after England vs WI first day
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2017, 11:20:15 AM »

Even though I had work followed by nets I managed to watch a lot of the day. I really like the day/night format. Probably only once a summer but it is interesting. I much prefer the commentary when they have something new to talk about. Hopefully today I will be able to finish early and watch nearly all of it. Previously I took days off work to watch a few days of a test (most successfully when Broad ran through the Aussies).

The other thing I noticed was the negativity thrown at the Windies. We are allowed to dominate teams, we are a very good side. I don't mind watching our batsmen without a sense of dread like normal. I wouldn't want it all the time but we have had some tough series recently so a bit of a thrashing is a welcome break.

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six and out

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Re: Thoughts after England vs WI first day
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2017, 11:31:58 AM »

I suspect that Root had a similar conversation to below:

JR: Hi CW. I know you looked great in your last County outing but would you mind having a rest?
CW: Why Cap'n?
JR: You are a defo for the Ashes so no worries there! But wanted to take better and longer look at TRJ to see which seat to give him on the reserve bench?
CW: Of course!

A fit Woakes will be in the starting XI so no point in playing him if they already know he is 1st XI!
If Woakes was playing it would be Woakes in and TRJ bringing the drinks on.

Exactly this.

Root has settled on a balance to his side and it is now up to Malan to cash in against this woeful West Indies attack and book himself the number 5 slot.

As for Stoneman, let's see at the end of the series.

This series for the batters I really think more than anything it is going to be about the mental approach you have, because you will get a bad ball an over to hit, so just make sure you concentrate to keep the good ones out.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 11:35:21 AM by six and out »
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Whispering Death

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Re: Thoughts after England vs WI first day
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2017, 12:19:29 PM »

Am I alone in thinking they might have well persisted with Jennings here - what will they learn from Stoneman (jaffa aside) - they'll learn he can hit windies around the park! Jennings would have spanked them around as well - might have been a good confidence builder/time in the middle. Or could have given Hameed time in the middle against a poor 2nd xi attack
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ppccopener

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Re: Thoughts after England vs WI first day
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2017, 12:27:19 PM »

Nope !! Absolutely not alone .stoneman is a good player and deserves a chance now but when you invest in a young player it's long term gain...provided you pick correctly of course

I thought they might and I say might have stuck with Jennings.hameed is the long term bet I reckon

I can see Jennings still getting picked down the line...not sure if he would open or not

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t2ylo

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Re: Thoughts after England vs WI first day
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2017, 12:36:45 PM »

Two left-handers opening does not work for me at all - too easy for top bowlers to settle in
I would go with this line up for the Aussies

Cook
Roy (with licence to enjoy himself)
Stoneman/Westley
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
TRJ/Anderson

Like earlier comment I think they see Hameed as long term opener


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Douglas Jardine

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Re: Thoughts after England vs WI first day
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2017, 12:43:29 PM »

I might be wrong but can being dropped be a good thing for a younger player? You can go away, have a think about how to deal with test match bowlers in your own time away from the spotlight. Then show your changes in the county game to the watching selectors. It seems from the commentators analysis that he is technically lacking so that needs to change, smashing poor bowlers around doesn't solve a problem.
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Whispering Death

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Re: Thoughts after England vs WI first day
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2017, 01:39:46 PM »

I might be wrong but can being dropped be a good thing for a younger player? You can go away, have a think about how to deal with test match bowlers in your own time away from the spotlight. Then show your changes in the county game to the watching selectors. It seems from the commentators analysis that he is technically lacking so that needs to change, smashing poor bowlers around doesn't solve a problem.

Nice thought but hard to recreate Morkel steaming in playing for your county
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WalkingWicket37

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Re: Thoughts after England vs WI first day
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2017, 01:47:51 PM »

Nice thought but hard to recreate Morkel steaming in playing for your county

Until next summer when he signs a Kolpak deal, at least...
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Whispering Death

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Re: Thoughts after England vs WI first day
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2017, 01:55:50 PM »

Wouldn't be surprised if Philander and Elgar did as well
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