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Author Topic: Lower end bats dont perform-True?  (Read 2806 times)

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Biggie Smalls

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Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2017, 10:28:32 AM »

I have played in UK and in the US.

The hardball cricket in US is mostly played on concrete surfaces covered with a green mat.

The ground grading is usually horrible - fielders usually need to excercise caution of unexpected, or I should rather say, expected bumps that will make the ball hit you in the face.

There is no mole control so dirt mounds are a common in U.S. Cricket grounds - there is hardly any comparison with the good level English grounds.

But since we play on concrete, the ball bounces and zips - narrow and thin bats usually don't stand a chance here.



'no mole control' .... ah , that takes me back to my teens !  :D
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2017, 11:41:15 AM »

Total codswallop - I haven't used above a Grade 2 for about 5 years now, and I've got access to pretty much unlimited willow through Neon. I've always said that the grade is irrelevant - the pressing makes 95% of the performance IMO.

To put it in perspective, my main match bat this season is a G3...

I reckon the pressing and the handling is everything. There is little scientific reason why good looking willow should perform better, is there?
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adb club cricketer

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Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2017, 03:01:28 PM »

I reckon the pressing and the handling is everything. There is little scientific reason why good looking willow should perform better, is there?

Agree..but there may be other minor things such as higher priced bats may be pressed differently or the top batmaker may work only on the top end bats  (resulting in better performance perhaps) which could make the higher priced bat (synonymous with good looking bats) slightly better performing. Secondly, one may be more likely to find a better performing bat at higher price than at lower price due to these "other" factors while there will always be the odd lower priced bat that goes..My experience is that top end bats generally go from ball one or open up quickly while lower end bats take time to open up, but once sufficiently used, the difference evens out to some extent...Lastly, we often find that due to lower density clefts generally used for top end bats, top end bats could come with little/no concaving while lower end bats could come concaved for same weight which will obviously affect performance as well..All these can be considered as the "other" factors for better performance and not due to willow looking good itself..  Just my 2 cents..
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Chad

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Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2017, 05:03:21 PM »

There are a few potential answers to this:

  • Pretty willow is better/worse than uglier willow.
  • Batmaker is all that matters.
  • Higher grades normally perceived as better because of the mentality of "I've paid more for this, therefore is better than a G4".
  • Handling and pressing are the most important.
  • etc

From personal experience, looks don't dictate performance, it's down to the batmaker and the quality of the willow (ie no major pin knots) and handle. I reckon prettier looking willow gets more attention from the batmaker though, which is why good looking bats generally are made well - afterall, the company does get more profit from these bats, so worth the extra attention.

Not saying this is always the case, I'm sure that there are batmakers that try to ensure that the same care is taken throughout all grades, but I would guess they'd take extra care with nicer willow.
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SOULMAN1012

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Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2017, 07:04:06 PM »

I currently don't have a single top grade bat in my collection all being G2 or G3 according to the manufacturer.

Now with carful selection and some great forum sponsors most of mine look like they could be G1 but performance wise there is no difference, the most I have spent on a bat in the last 3 seasons was an XP70 850 at 250 for G2 with most being sub 150 and performance wise they are as good as any other top end bat Iv ever used, may take a little longer to open up and handles may be a bit stiffer but for club cricket even high end club cricket my GM signatures, GN select & XP70 as well as a few others are as good as guys that have spent 400 - 600 this season.

The only benefit to G1 is it looks nicer and for some that's worth the extra layout but for me these days G2 or G3 well selected is fine for me, the quality is in the making and pressing
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2017, 07:21:18 PM »

"Choosing the right bat is vitally important. It is tempting to plump for the best looking bat, the one which is beautifully white or has the straightest grain. Let me say right away that the appearance of the bat has absolutely nothing to do with its quality."

Geoff Boycott, 'Boycott on Batting', 1980.

Apologies if I've used this before.
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kenbriooo

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Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2017, 07:48:01 PM »

"Choosing the right bat is vitally important. It is tempting to plump for the best looking bat, the one which is beautifully white or has the straightest grain. Let me say right away that the appearance of the bat has absolutely nothing to do with its quality."

Geoff Boycott, 'Boycott on Batting', 1980.

Apologies if I've used this before.

Or how good you'll be at a batter!
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"Well get them in singles" - George Hirst

Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2017, 07:54:38 PM »

Or how good you'll be at a batter!

Yes, I perhaps ought to add that the book didn't actually help me a great deal.
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JB

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Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2017, 07:58:26 PM »

I've worked hard my entire life, fortunate to work for a family business where our hard work has paid off. I've always viewed buying bats as my treats as I don't smoke and don't get out drinking very much. I've bought the best grade bats I could afford. I played today with the H4L Custom #1, the only bat I've played with for getting on 2 years, even though I've got 20 odd other great bats. Today I hit the biggest 6 I've ever hit! It went miles, off a checked drive. Had the entire oppo team (apart from the bowler) come and ask for a look at my bat as they'd never seen a hit like it. I was quick to point out that Matts @hell4leather cricket skill as a maker far outweighed my skill as a batsman.

Moral, buy the best you can! I've got 20 but wouldn't pull anything but this bat from my bag to play with.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2017, 08:22:28 PM »

Isn't it just a good, well-made bat, that could just as easily be a G2?
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2017, 04:49:50 PM »

This thread got me thinking about bat  comparisions  and performance top end willow the lightest of the light and the best of the best performing willow clefts which the ball flys off the sort you don't see in the shops or readily available to the bat buying public the ones that are skimmed off  by the big brands for the  top pros  totally different bats.
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InternalTraining

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Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2017, 09:59:58 PM »

This thread got me thinking about bat  comparisions  and performance top end willow the lightest of the light and the best of the best performing willow clefts which the ball flys off the sort you don't see in the shops or readily available to the bat buying public the ones that are skimmed off  by the big brands for the  top pros  totally different bats.

The "best performing willow clefts" bats that I somehow managed to snag were indeed left overs from the "top pros" who for one reason or another didn't want the bat or just gave it away. Once you use those bats, others just pale into comparison.

You can find some ugly ducklings that perform really well - I would prefer ugly ducklings that performed like trampolines - but it is very hard to find such bats. On top of that, they do take their sweet time to open up. Really, the trade off or the big question is how much time do you have in your life to wait for a bat to open up (that is if it opens up). In that regard, ugly ducklings are a big risk if they fail after a long wait.

I have some supposed G2, G3, and G4 bats that perform very well but they were hand selected by very good batsmen. I think I got lucky. I have other G2 and G3 bats which aren't even suitable for a fireplace. 
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InternalTraining

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Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2017, 10:01:50 PM »

There are a few potential answers to this:

  • Pretty willow is better/worse than uglier willow.
  • Batmaker is all that matters.
  • Higher grades normally perceived as better because of the mentality of "I've paid more for this, therefore is better than a G4".
  • Handling and pressing are the most important.
  • etc

From personal experience, looks don't dictate performance, it's down to the batmaker and the quality of the willow (ie no major pin knots) and handle. I reckon prettier looking willow gets more attention from the batmaker though, which is why good looking bats generally are made well - afterall, the company does get more profit from these bats, so worth the extra attention.

Not saying this is always the case, I'm sure that there are batmakers that try to ensure that the same care is taken throughout all grades, but I would guess they'd take extra care with nicer willow.

I somewhat agree with what you are saying - "preference" is given by bat makers to good looking clefts as those clefts will fetch a higher price.

I would love to use a G2/G3 TK or SK bat but I doubt those bat makers would touch a low rated cleft as they'd prefer to work exclusively with G1, G1+, and Pro grade clefts.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2017, 10:20:45 PM »

I made the argument before that batmakers possibly gave more attention to good looking clefts and that was why they were better bats. I remember the idea being scoffed at.
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CrickFreak

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Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2017, 10:33:51 PM »

The "best performing willow clefts" bats that I somehow managed to snag were indeed left overs from the "top pros" who for one reason or another didn't want the bat or just gave it away. Once you use those bats, others just pale into comparison.

You can find some ugly ducklings that perform really well - I would prefer ugly ducklings that performed like trampolines - but it is very hard to find such bats. On top of that, they do take their sweet time to open up. Really, the trade off or the big question is how much time do you have in your life to wait for a bat to open up (that is if it opens up). In that regard, ugly ducklings are a big risk if they fail after a long wait.

I have some supposed G2, G3, and G4 bats that perform very well but they were hand selected by very good batsmen. I think I got lucky. I have other G2 and G3 bats which aren't even suitable for a fireplace.

I think its important to not confuse lower grade bats with cheap bats. A good batmaker will make a equally good bat from lower grade cleft and will also be priced higher. Hard to find a good performing cheap bat because of cheap material being used and made by average batmaker. I have seen pics of bats used by top pros which look horrible but sure they pickup well and perform differently than off the shelf bats. The reason is - cleft selection and the batmaker.
Point I am making is lower grade bats from a good batmaker will be equally good as higher grade.
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