Advertise on CBF

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5

Author Topic: Lower end bats dont perform-True?  (Read 2758 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sarg

Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2017, 12:36:52 AM »

Lower end bats dont perform-FALSE for Retail

Of course they can perform like a top end range retail bat, but perhaps not immediately or perhaps not for long. It all depends on manufacturer. If the grading is done at the end of production like you see in some of the Asian bat making videos, there is no reason why the handle or press is any different. The downgrade may be on appearance and pickup, but performance is something the bat maker is potentially less concerned with than what price it will fetch on the open market.

Consider this question - Can Lower end bat perform like pro willow? False in the the majority

a) Bat makers cannot buy Pro willow. It is selected from their purchased clefts. They have to handpick them out and prepare them accordingly. The willow is selected on its playing properties and may be grade 1,2 3 or lower. Bats prepared for a pro are not the same as retail bats. It is not durable and may not last a season.

b) Pro willow is only a qualification that the cleft has been picked and set aside for possible selection according to the players preference, if they get the choice. The selection then may be performance or appearance based.

c) Handle quality and workmanship from a smaller bat maker will be better for the high end bats and pro bats. If they stand to make more money, then they will do their best.

Finally consider this question - Why does a amateur or social park cricketer need a pro bat?

I personally do not believe the performance difference is of the magnitude people describe. We are talking percentages that are often negated by the amateur players inability to middle the ball.  I also think the description is often used by bat makers to create a new higher price point and attract ignorant buyers. This is particularly the case with a few unscrupulous brands describing perfect grains on over dried willow as pro willow. The public is mislead and pays for performance that any  bat maker can produce.
Logged
Don't ask me how much each run costs me....

InternalTraining

  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2691
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2017, 01:45:49 AM »

@sarg , go ahead, name names.

 Let's not beat around the bush anymore.  Consumers, people who spend their hard-earned money on bats, have a right to know.
Logged

sarg

  • International Captain
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1067
  • Trade Count: (0)
    • Cricket Bat Info
Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2017, 09:02:32 AM »

@sarg , go ahead, name names.

 Let's not beat around the bush anymore.  Consumers, people who spend their hard-earned money on bats, have a right to know.

Doesn't really matter who they are. I think the best advice is to do your research and check bats at training. Tap them up and see the differences for yourself, talk to the owners. Visit a bat maker or a few shops. Do your due diligence and perhaps you will find your own diamond in the rough that proves this topic true..
Logged
Don't ask me how much each run costs me....

Seniorplayer

  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4456
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2017, 09:11:42 AM »

Lower end bats dont perform-FALSE for Retail

Of course they can perform like a top end range retail bat, but perhaps not immediately or perhaps not for long. It all depends on manufacturer. If the grading is done at the end of production like you see in some of the Asian bat making videos, there is no reason why the handle or press is any different. The downgrade may be on appearance and pickup, but performance is something the bat maker is potentially less concerned with than what price it will fetch on the open market.

Consider this question - Can Lower end bat perform like pro willow? False in the the majority

a) Bat makers cannot buy Pro willow. It is selected from their purchased clefts. They have to handpick them out and prepare them accordingly. The willow is selected on its playing properties and may be grade 1,2 3 or lower. Bats prepared for a pro are not the same as retail bats. It is not durable and may not last a season.

b) Pro willow is only a qualification that the cleft has been picked and set aside for possible selection according to the players preference, if they get the choice. The selection then may be performance or appearance based.

c) Handle quality and workmanship from a smaller bat maker will be better for the high end bats and pro bats. If they stand to make more money, then they will do their best.

Finally consider this question - Why does a amateur or social park cricketer need a pro bat?

I personally do not believe the performance difference is of the magnitude people describe. We are talking percentages that are often negated by the amateur players inability to middle the ball.  I also think the description is often used by bat makers to create a new higher price point and attract ignorant buyers. This is particularly the case with a few unscrupulous brands describing perfect grains on over dried willow as pro willow. The public is mislead and pays for performance that any  bat maker can produce.
Just to add
Bat makers cannot buy pro willow its selected from the clefts they purchased  yes but the clefts have already been graded by the willow merchant its  not as if they don't  know what they are getting usually with ratios top willow is available at a price.
Logged

Jaffa

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 819
  • Trade Count: (+2)
Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2017, 08:05:24 PM »

Surprised no-one has mentioned butterfly willow.

Lower graded price wise yet is preferred by some. 
Logged
As smooth as baby Jesus in velvet pants.

tom line

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 939
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2017, 08:18:30 PM »

I can only echo what has been said by others that performance is nothing to do with grading most of the time, handles to me are just as important as pressing, a very stiff handle of badly fitted can make a bat feel like a plank and so can under or over pressing, Im using a bat this season with 7 wonky grains, but it's a UK made GN so has a very good handle and pressed very well, probably be a grade 2/3. @simonmay5 must have 50 bats or more, including special bats such as a low density H4L monster yet his match bat is a butterfly because it performs perfectly and works for him.

Ultimately a bats performance is down to pressing, handling and the user, I've seen people make guns looo like planks and planks look like guns. The only exception is if a brand chooses to grade on performance though I see this just as a way of up grading ugly pingers to make more money

There may however be some correlation for less experienced or smaller bat makers that they take far more time with their higher grade clefts as they've cost them more from the supplier and therefore they don't want to waste them, also lower grades with a knot of similar under the face will make the bat seem very hard but these are more exceptions to the rule rather than the norm
Logged

frooper11

  • First XI Captain
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 210
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2017, 07:18:56 AM »

Surprised no-one has mentioned butterfly willow.

Lower graded price wise yet is preferred by some.

Even Boycs said he preferred Butterfly Willow bats during his career.
Logged

Chad

  • International Captain
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2417
  • Trade Count: (+22)
Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2017, 11:19:24 PM »

Had a look at my collection today, and I picked out probably the most disappointing top end grade bat in the collection:





Surprised? I would be. This L&W Reserve was allegedly made for Tom Latham. It's rather underwhelming in its current state. Sure, it's pretty big, wood where it's needed, but I think it just hasn't responded well to the pressing. Could be one of those Lavers which need time to open up, but it hasn't impressed really. The other Lavers I have are all excellent, older members will know that I would sing their praises everytime I got a new one. It could be a coincidence, but this Laver is the only one I've had which has a flat face.


These are two low grade bats which are excellent examples which I recently required, cost far less than a Reserve from Laver, and are far more satisfactory than the Laver above:





I guess proof that even the most highly regarded of batmakers have their off days with high quality willow, and also Indian batmakers are producing exceptional bats across all price ranges.
Logged

madpra6

  • Village Cricketer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2017, 07:42:33 AM »

Now forget US,UK...Last week I was in Bangalore & visited a couple of the most renowned retailers(Crown cricketer & Players Choice). While I was looking through some bats I overheard a customer bargaining on the price of a top end MRF bat.The sales staff told him that a max of 10%(fact is,majority of the retailers give a min of 15%-20% discount on the company prices mentioned on the bats) discount could be given & the higher the bats are priced the quality would be good. They were b***S****g that the straighter & more the grains are the ball travels faster & further. Do these people really know about bats? & these are the most famous retailers in Bangalore. The best part is the owners of these shops are experienced cricketers & are sitting & just watching all this quietly even after they know what is happening. Bangalore being such a big turf for cricket & customers being misguided like this......Where is this heading to :(
Logged

Bats_Entertainment

  • International Captain
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2126
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2017, 08:45:32 AM »

Even Boycs said he preferred Butterfly Willow bats during his career.

Did he?  His bats in Headingley and Lord's museums are cerainly not butterfly.
Logged

FattusCattus

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8126
  • Trade Count: (+29)
  • Bend it like Fattus!!
Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2017, 10:32:02 AM »

Good point, and worth arguing.

YOU WANT THE TRUTH? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!
Logged
If you tolerate this, then your baked goods will be next.

Bats_Entertainment

  • International Captain
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2126
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2017, 10:54:54 AM »

Good point, and worth arguing.

YOU WANT THE TRUTH? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!

Eh?
Logged

WalkingWicket37

  • International Superstar
  • *******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 10993
  • Trade Count: (+25)
Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2017, 11:12:10 AM »

Did he?  His bats in Headingley and Lord's museums are cerainly not butterfly.

I heard him say that he preferred butterfly willow on TMS the other day. He said it on the radio so it must be true...
Logged

Bats_Entertainment

  • International Captain
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2126
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2017, 11:18:04 AM »

I heard him say that he preferred butterfly willow on TMS the other day. He said it on the radio so it must be true...

Cool. I believe you. Thanks.
Logged

OllieWalker39

  • First XI Captain
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 221
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Lower end bats dont perform-True?
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2017, 02:28:59 PM »

Well I did some damage to my bat on Saturday (cracked through the toe and right up) which is fair dinkum after 2 seasons!

So, without wanting to spend silly money (250 plus) and in desperate need for one ASAP, I went into a local place and tested a few with knocking up and tap tests etc... unsurprisingly, the elite bats (silly money ones) did tap up the best, but a surprise was that a New Balance TC560 pinged incredibly well, yet bats of a similar level (Kook Ghost 600) were shocking in comparison. Top it off, this 560 tapped up better than the 860 in the shop... and it looks better! Not sure how to upload images - I have tried before but I'm useless :D

Looking forward to seeing how she goes in a game
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5
 

Advertise on CBF