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Author Topic: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?  (Read 1867 times)

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pablomarmite

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Re: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2017, 09:01:20 PM »

^ So, now you know why the handle was thin in the first place. ;)

Bats and handles, eventually, break. What matters is the quality of your experience when you go out to bat. With the additional grips, you have now a much heavier bat which could impact your timing. If I were you, I'd take the bat back to the repairer and ask him to shave the handle down to the old thin-ness to restore the old weight and balance. Good luck!

PS: I am not a fan of bat surgery. The original bat maker had his reasons for making the bat with certain weight, feel, and balance and I don't like messing with it. :)

Unfortunately the handle broke after 2 games and the third net. I would argue that the handle was thin to keep the dead weight down. It was sold on to me by another forumite and perhaps they also felt the original pick up was not quite right. I don't think the original pick up/balance was quite right either due to the handle. It has a cracking middle. You are right there are massive potential impacts on my game as I've never batted with anything as heavy. I also agree big risk to playing about with bat surgery. Hopefully game is on tomorrow and I get a bat and we will find out if it impacts on my batting.
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pablomarmite

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Re: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?
« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2017, 10:06:16 AM »

Game off today will have to wait until nets to try it out.
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The Doctor

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Re: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2017, 10:42:36 AM »

Unfortunately the handle broke after 2 games and the third net. I would argue that the handle was thin to keep the dead weight down. It was sold on to me by another forumite and perhaps they also felt the original pick up was not quite right. I don't think the original pick up/balance was quite right either due to the handle. It has a cracking middle. You are right there are massive potential impacts on my game as I've never batted with anything as heavy. I also agree big risk to playing about with bat surgery. Hopefully game is on tomorrow and I get a bat and we will find out if it impacts on my batting.



One thing that is curious - how could adding an extra grip make the pick up better (adding extra weight) when fitting a heavier handle made it worse in the first place.....

This is a perfect example of pick up or feel - and the current subjective nature of it.

The "feel" can be measured and given a number.

My question to you guys is given the resistance of the cricket player (industry) to change how would you (would you in the first place) implement pick up weights rather than scale weights......
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 10:48:21 AM by The Doctor »
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pablomarmite

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Re: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2017, 11:04:58 AM »



One thing that is curious - how could adding an extra grip make the pick up better (adding extra weight) when fitting a heavier handle made it worse in the first place.....

This is a perfect example of pick up or feel - and the current subjective nature of it.

The "feel" can be measured and given a number.

My question to you guys is given the resistance of the cricket player (industry) to change how would you (would you in the first place) implement pick up weights rather than scale weights......

You are certainly more than an expert than me on this. The second grip I have half rolled down and left the other half rolled up at top of handle. The ordinal handle was thin and round the entire way. The new handle is think at bottom standard at top so I've added extra weight at top of handle.
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pablomarmite

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Re: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2017, 11:29:43 AM »

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skip1973

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Re: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2017, 11:37:29 AM »

I had a sponsored GM players bat in last year and they had drilled in down into the handle and inserted a hardwood dowel, I assume for counter balance.
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Bulldog Cricket

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Re: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2017, 01:01:34 PM »




Don't take this the wrong way, but what is you average and highest score this season ? Genuine question as I have a therory related to your bat grip that may or may not help.

pablomarmite

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Re: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2017, 01:28:08 PM »

I played two games with the original bat 102 and 51. Bat handle broke used old bat scored two. Have just netted with the bat in its current guise and couldn't hit the ball. Far too slow on it particularly my cut and pulls. The oval handle is definitely bigger than I wanted. The pick up and weight and balance now completely different.
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pablomarmite

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Re: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2017, 05:20:30 PM »

Ok so shocking with the 'counter balance' I removed it and hit a couple of buckets of throw downs. Was bit better. Wil net again Monday and see how I go.
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Silver Bullet

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Re: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2017, 06:58:40 PM »



One thing that is curious - how could adding an extra grip make the pick up better (adding extra weight) when fitting a heavier handle made it worse in the first place.....

This is a perfect example of pick up or feel - and the current subjective nature of it.

The "feel" can be measured and given a number.

My question to you guys is given the resistance of the cricket player (industry) to change how would you (would you in the first place) implement pick up weights rather than scale weights......

I'm certainly far in the minority on this, but I think deadweight is a lot more important than pickup for horizontal bat shots. I have recently conducted an experiment with 2 of my bats, a 2lb 13 that picks up a few ounces lighter atleast and a 2lb 11 that feels a lot heavier than the 2lb 13. I've been coming late on all my shots with the heavier bat that picks up light.

The lighter bat, even though feels a lot heavier, results in much better timed shots.

Small sample size, take it for what it's worth.
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DorsetDan

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Re: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2017, 07:34:06 PM »

^ Not minority thinking, I don't think anyone would disagree on dead weight affecting feel of horizontal shots

@The Doctor I guess the main issue is people don't want or don't trust "numbers" because numbers mean "marketing" and instead prefer to believe a mystique exists about a certain maker/ brand/ bat/ etc. However well you quantify things or whatever you call it, it is a slightly archaic culture you are battling against. More a way of thinking which would have to change.

"Perfect balance and exceptional pickup" is a selling point and that is binary to people- yes or no. The concept of "perfect" changing to a scale that suits different people is a hard sell I guess. "What do you mean this bat has a 60 pickup, I'll buy the *better* one with a 90". Perhaps the answer is education through your videos of what you can do to quantify feel, how is relates to replicating or improving up ones existing bat when they are searching for a new one or going custom and how it can all take away the guess work and unsatisfactory bats people undoubtedly end up with through trial and error and being subjective. Maybe customer examples to make it from a more real world point of view, eg I like this bat, it goes well, the middle is in the right place but it doesn't quite feel as natural and balanced as this other bat I have, can you combine the best of both? Or, I don't think MOI is something you can realistically expect people to understand and it will be black magic for most. Ask someone to pick up three bats of the same weight and rank them on pickup and show your "numbers" mean something physical that people can relate to. Or come up with examples like this counter balance thread and how you can quantify bats of the same mass having very different COG's about different axis during different shots, different MOI etc but explained in practical terms.

I'm not sure many other companies share your science-style approach so I can't see them taking this on- it is more a unique selling point of yourselves, especially as if the industry were to adopt a pickup standard then it would most likely be a disadvantage for most manufacturers to quantify how bad/ average they are. The difficult balance to this and the CNC in general is that people can mistake using your brain to make a bat with a lack of skill. The same video could touch on the craft side like the pressing etc for the performance side and then things like selecting handles specifically to get the right balance/ etc which I'm sure you also do as well or better compared to a "traditional" bat maker. No idea if any of that helps but would be my first thoughts.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 07:41:13 PM by DorsetDan »
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adb club cricketer

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Re: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?
« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2017, 03:27:47 AM »

I'm certainly far in the minority on this, but I think deadweight is a lot more important than pickup for horizontal bat shots. I have recently conducted an experiment with 2 of my bats, a 2lb 13 that picks up a few ounces lighter atleast and a 2lb 11 that feels a lot heavier than the 2lb 13. I've been coming late on all my shots with the heavier bat that picks up light.

The lighter bat, even though feels a lot heavier, results in much better timed shots.

Small sample size, take it for what it's worth.
From my own experience with greater sample size of bats, I fully agree with this. However, we know bad pickup can make a bat feel heavier than its dead weight even in straight bat shots, so always prefer a bat at desired dead weight first and then look for good pickup, to get the best all round freedom to play.. Found it difficult to buy the "2-12 feels like 2-10" concept as it is clearly not feeling like 2-10 for all shots even though it might genuinely feel like 2-10 for drives..
« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 03:11:27 PM by adb club cricketer »
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pablomarmite

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Re: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2017, 10:13:12 AM »

Ok so shocking with the 'counter balance' I removed it and hit a couple of buckets of throw downs. Was bit better. Wil net again Monday and see how I go.
Monday net not a lot better. Booked in to have handle altered on Wednesday evening going to carry out work on it while I'm there.
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InternalTraining

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Re: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?
« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2017, 10:25:02 AM »


My question to you guys is given the resistance of the cricket player (industry) to change how would you (would you in the first place) implement pick up weights rather than scale weights......

Don't  Know about the "resistance of the cricket player (industry) to change", I would welcome information like balance point, swing weight, actual weight i.e. wieght of the bat undressed (without grip, stickers, toe guard and scuff sheet).
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pablomarmite

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Re: Counter balance on cricket bats..do they really work?
« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2017, 09:53:28 PM »



Here is the altered handle I've also changed the grip too. Due to a lot of players missing this weekend I'm playing and opening for 1s. Haven't played at that level before so should be fun! Might even get a bowl too.
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