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General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: petehosk on October 30, 2016, 10:49:35 PM

Title: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on October 30, 2016, 10:49:35 PM
Think we had better start the next topic as the Indian Tests start so quickly! So thought I would continue where the Bangladesh topic ended...

Ballance is a good player. No-one gets an average of 60-70 after three of four series without knowing a bit about Batting. He just needs a break, mentally looks shot. Can't seem to buy a run.

Was very disappointed with Duckett, heard lots of good things about him. That was until today when he actually attacked the bowlers. I feel he could be decent given another year or two. Give him the India and next summer (unless he becomes hapless in India).

I think Hameed could do a job at 3, move Root back to 4. Or, Bairstow/Ali 4, Hameed 5, Stokes 6, Bairstow/Ali 7.

No to KP and no to Bell. May as well build for the future, already got one oldie return in Batty. Shouldn't have too many in my eyes.

Really disappointed that Hameed only got a warm-up match and no proper Test match. It would have been good to see how he did against Bangladesh, as India should prove to be a tougher test!!
Against India I can see Hameed being played a little further down the order?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on October 30, 2016, 11:02:14 PM
Well....... :)

As has been mentioned by others if he does play it could be at 4.....it seems the only way in.the whole situation is not ideal, I think we have more selection issues than we started with.

It's difficult to rationalise when England are likely to do something opposite. ie so we still need a 'tradional opener' batting 2?

England don't think so, I think we do. hameed and cook together? Yes.....cook and a strokeplayer? Yes that's what England want.

If hameed did get in and batted 4 it's not the end of the world, it's happened before, does he fit balances more attritional style? Yes he does.....

So maybe England are thinking that they need that style at 4. Apart from Cook everyone else gets on with it.

I actually think someone suggested hameed(if he plays) goes 3 and root back to 4. It's not the worst idea is it?  Root will score whether it's 3 or 4 it doesn't matter.

More concerns about our bowling, Broad needs to stay fit and Anderson we don't know. Spinners?  Hmmm....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on October 31, 2016, 09:54:02 AM
FYI Bell has played 8 Tests in India, averaging 27.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on October 31, 2016, 09:58:16 AM
I think that this tour should be about managing expectations.

It could well be 5-0 - India in their conditions will be tough.
So, can England make all matches go to a fifth day?
Can England go into their next assignment with doubts over one batting place?
Can a spinner land the ball in the same place 6 times an over for at least 25% of their overs/
Can they nick a match?

 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on October 31, 2016, 10:04:03 AM
I think that this tour should be about managing expectations.

It could well be 5-0 - India in their conditions will be tough.
So, can England make all matches go to a fifth day?
Can England go into their next assignment with doubts over one batting place?
Can a spinner land the ball in the same place 6 times an over for at least 25% of their overs/
Can they nick a match?

 

if your looking for positives, it does reverse a bit out there for our bowlers. I dot think we will lose 5-0 but it's going to be very very hard to get close to a draw I think

you do wonder if there is a case for picking our BEST bowlers regardless of conditions.....

so......how many of our spinners are our best bowlers?  yes it's a bit off the wall but do we pick an extra seamer?

I think our spinners are going to get slapped out there
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Stuey on October 31, 2016, 10:09:42 AM
you do wonder if there is a case for picking our BEST bowlers regardless of conditions.....

so......how many of our spinners are our best bowlers?
This is absolutely what we should do, I posted before the Bangladesh series we should at our best 3 or 4 quicks and
2 spinners max. We should stick to our strengths, playing 2nd rate spinners plays into Bangladesh and India's hands.  They treat them as fodder and up their run rate, meaning we need to chase more runs. The series in the UAE was a lesson the England management never learnt from.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on October 31, 2016, 10:25:17 AM
5-0 England. Don't worry lads, we got this.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on October 31, 2016, 10:44:08 AM
I think that this tour should be about managing expectations.

It could well be 5-0 - India in their conditions will be tough.
So, can England make all matches go to a fifth day?
Can England go into their next assignment with doubts over one batting place?
Can a spinner land the ball in the same place 6 times an over for at least 25% of their overs/
Can they nick a match?

 

I think, unfortunately, you know the answers to those questions already ;)

I reckon if England come out of the India tour any better than 5-0 we've done well. It's going to be a big ask to draw a Test over there against Ashwin and Jadeja.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on October 31, 2016, 10:51:18 AM
I think we should get over the 'ifs', 'buts' and who comes back in and going back to past players. We are in the here & now, and we have a pool of say 16 bodies to pick from, mostly inexperienced. It's not like going to India with KP, Freddy, Swann and Monty I'm afraid, so we have to cut our cloth to suit.

Lets move forward. Balance has been found wanting, but is hardly experienced in the pressure-cooker of test cricket so stick another youngster in to replace him. Duckett, Hameed and Ansari will not get any better unless they play.

What matters is how they are managed and coached as newcomers to the side. Explain to them the challenge ahead, what your realistic expectations are for them in the matches, pair them up with experienced players in training and travelling and let them get on with it.

This will be an awesome experience that they will sink or swim from and everyone should be realistic about their chances. Win or lose, we have a young squad to move forward with and should be excited.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on October 31, 2016, 01:23:52 PM
In my opinion the mainstream media have to give these players a bit of a break! All you heard during Duckett's innings was how he would be lambasted in the media if he got out playing a switch hit at the start of the innings in a test mate.

We want players to go out and express themselves, why do we then hammer them if they get out playing something these ex pro's class as a non regulation shot.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on October 31, 2016, 01:55:29 PM
In my opinion the mainstream media have to give these players a bit of a break! All you heard during Duckett's innings was how he would be lambasted in the media if he got out playing a switch hit at the start of the innings in a test mate.

We want players to go out and express themselves, why do we then hammer them if they get out playing something these ex pro's class as a non regulation shot.

yep it would have been an interesting reaction if Duckett had got out playing one of those reverses 2nd over? probably got crucified! instead he is being hailed as brave and bold and now nailed on for the 1st test.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on October 31, 2016, 02:02:39 PM
yep it would have been an interesting reaction if Duckett had got out playing one of those reverses 2nd over? probably got crucified! instead he is being hailed as brave and bold and now nailed on for the 1st test.



tradition English media yes you are spot on. However Bayliss is different, we might not like the 'aussie way' sometimes but he's been great for us, England are opening their minds in one days and tests.....

His influence has been fantastic. And  no one really cares what the toffs in the Telegraph write......cricket needs to get to inspire people.

Sorry im ranting  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: billyb on October 31, 2016, 02:37:45 PM
I really don't think we'll do that badly in India. That team that was nearly the best in the world a few months ago hasn't disappeared overnight- it certainly won't be 5-0. We just need top order batsmen to score runs. Cook had a great tour of India last time around.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on October 31, 2016, 02:55:20 PM
Just read that Michael Vaughn has written in the telegraph that England should call Sam billings, now for me it's not a bad call I just don't think it's the right time!! We have a squad that can win in India! It just needs the correct selection (hammeed at 2, duckett at 4) however I'm not sure that will happen. I will be cheering on and supporting whoever walks out for the first test with the 3 lions in their chest no matter who that is!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on October 31, 2016, 05:13:12 PM
Interesting this from Duckett on twitter - getting very mixed reaction!

https://twitter.com/BenDuckett1/status/793019387837939713

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on October 31, 2016, 05:14:56 PM
Good on him
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on October 31, 2016, 05:26:17 PM
Good lad.


The alluminati on twitter all having a go want to remove the sticks from there behinds.!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on October 31, 2016, 06:21:52 PM
Just read that Michael Vaughn has written in the telegraph that England should call Sam billings, now for me it's not a bad call I just don't think it's the right time!! We have a squad that can win in India! It just needs the correct selection (hammeed at 2, duckett at 4) however I'm not sure that will happen. I will be cheering on and supporting whoever walks out for the first test with the 3 lions in their chest no matter who that is!!

Is Billings represented by whatever agency Vaughan is involved with? Ah.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Batbuddy99 on October 31, 2016, 06:23:12 PM
Interesting this from Duckett on twitter - getting very mixed reaction!

https://twitter.com/BenDuckett1/status/793019387837939713
One guy said a few more Ben's should be selected for India - I'm available ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on October 31, 2016, 07:06:46 PM
Is Billings represented by whatever agency Vaughan is involved with? Ah.

Well said.Vaughan has an agenda for everything he writes or says in the media.
Yes yes i cried(with joy) in 2005 when the bails were removed at the Oval.
But...
2005 in the past

And....what captain would not give for the attack we had then?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on October 31, 2016, 07:10:03 PM
One guy said a few more Ben's should be selected for India - I'm available ;)

Keep practising ! :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on October 31, 2016, 07:21:54 PM
FYI Bell has played 8 Tests in India, averaging 27.
Doesn't mean anything then and now no all that
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ElPerro on October 31, 2016, 07:31:49 PM
One guy said a few more Ben's should be selected for India - I'm available ;)

It didn't take Piers Morgan long to shove his tongue up Duckett's starfish either, irritatingly he replied.

Fair play to Duckett for backing himself, you just hope it doesn't come back to bit him
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on October 31, 2016, 07:51:37 PM
Doesn't mean anything then and now no all that

What?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: JTtaylor145 on November 01, 2016, 02:31:18 PM
I really don't think we'll do that badly in India. That team that was nearly the best in the world a few months ago hasn't disappeared overnight- it certainly won't be 5-0. We just need top order batsmen to score runs. Cook had a great tour of India last time around.

Are you sure? I'm not saying it is going to be 5-0 but 3-0 or 4-0 seem pretty likely. I don't think Kohli and Rahane et al are that worried about our spinners and I think Mr. Ashwin and his buddies are licking their lips at bowling to our boys. I hope that the English lads prove me wrong but I really fear the worst  :(
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 01, 2016, 02:34:31 PM
Don't think India's batting line up is as good as people think. NZ pushed them all the way and on a number of occasions they were in trouble.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 01, 2016, 03:07:44 PM
we do need Anderson thou, I know some on here think he is only good on green seamers but he has bowled well last time out there and in UAE. basically he is class and that's the commodity we are short of.

We will need Broad fit and firing too......

batting wise is tricky now.

Of the choices available Balance out of the firing line and I think England will gamble on Butler at number 7 maybe...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 01, 2016, 03:09:30 PM
Don't think India's batting line up is as good as people think. NZ pushed them all the way and on a number of occasions they were in trouble.

I'd rather have Jeetan Patel than any of our spinners to be fair.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 01, 2016, 03:20:11 PM
I'd rather have Jeetan Patel than any of our spinners to be fair.

any day of the week and I think he's 38 or 39 now....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on November 01, 2016, 03:56:37 PM
...And he was milked by India.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tushar sehgal on November 01, 2016, 04:05:37 PM
From an Indian supporter:

Eng will do better than most predict here as long as your seamers bowl well, spinners wise Ali might be decent not sure about others.

Big challenge for Eng batsmen would be Ashwin but I think as long as they play sensibly it should be ok . NZ could have given Indian bowlers trouble had Williamson been in better form and they had someone to replace Guptill & Taylor.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 01, 2016, 04:05:42 PM
...And he was milked by India.

correct.... but we don't care because...........................

we are hitting them with pace


 :)  bring it on.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 01, 2016, 04:17:54 PM
...And he was milked by India.

That was my point, I maybe didn't make it very clear haha
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Rob580 on November 01, 2016, 04:45:49 PM
I personally can't wait to see Moeen tear the Indians a new one, just like he did in the series in England:

MM Ali (ENG) 
123.4 Overs
16 Maidens
437 Runs
19 Wickets @ 23.00 a piece

If he did that on English green seamers, imagine the havoc he'll wreak on a Rajkot dustbowl!  ;) :D


P.S: Before anyone starts, I'm fully aware most of these were because they were trying to smash him into the middle of next week every time he came on to bowl....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 01, 2016, 05:05:31 PM
They might try that again to be fair....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 01, 2016, 06:08:39 PM
They might try that again to be fair....

I suspect that the Indian batsmen may treat Ali with a little more respect this time.
However, I also suspect that they will be looking to smash the rest of the spinners around!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Stuey on November 01, 2016, 06:21:40 PM
I can't see Ali getting the bounce he did in that series, from memory a lot of his wickets were caught in the deep. India will play him much better on their pitches. Play 4 quicks (Broad, stokes, woakes,ball ) and one spinner (Ali or Batty) and try to stay in the game.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on November 01, 2016, 06:51:10 PM
I think spirit of the team and motivation will be a big factor. Of course the skills are important but having lost the last test and mediocre performance by the inexperienced players against an ordinary test team can have a huge effect on confidence and ultimately the outcome of the game. How quickly the first time travelers come out of it and play confidently will be crucial. Its a long 5 test series, if England gets crushed in the beginning, then i dont see any favorable results for England, not even a draw....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 01, 2016, 09:02:52 PM
From an Indian supporter:

Eng will do better than most predict here as long as your seamers bowl well, spinners wise Ali might be decent not sure about others.

Big challenge for Eng batsmen would be Ashwin but I think as long as they play sensibly it should be ok . NZ could have given Indian bowlers trouble had Williamson been in better form and they had someone to replace Guptill & Taylor.
Ashwin seems a totally different bowler from the one who went missing against us back in 2012. In 2012 Ashwin bowled too many variations and Dhoni's negative captaincy nullified Ashwin.

Kohli's aggressive in everything he does and that's rubbed off on Ashwin.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: cesare_in on November 02, 2016, 06:37:40 AM
For sure going to watch all 5 days of the test match at Mumbai when England come visiting.. please see me in TV :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on November 02, 2016, 08:10:41 AM
Ashwin seems a totally different bowler from the one who went missing against us back in 2012. In 2012 Ashwin bowled too many variations and Dhoni's negative captaincy nullified Ashwin.

Kohli's aggressive in everything he does and that's rubbed off on Ashwin.

Or, spinners get better with age.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 02, 2016, 09:09:59 AM
Few injuries for the Indians, no rohit, rahul or dhawan.
Likely only 2 lefty's in their line up
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 02, 2016, 09:45:55 AM
Few injuries for the Indians, no rohit, rahul or dhawan.
Likely only 2 lefty's in their line up

I wonder if that might influence England to pick 2 spinners both away from the bat....

putting Rashid and Ansari ahead of batty. Ali is going to play anyway he is about as good as we have and cant do without his runs....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 02, 2016, 10:10:43 AM
I'd still hope they play Batty to start off with

If anyone wants to reminisce about the last time we were in India then this is perfect viewing with it only being a week away http://bit.ly/2faoBlz (http://bit.ly/2faoBlz)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 02, 2016, 10:28:04 AM
I can't see Ali getting the bounce he did in that series, from memory a lot of his wickets were caught in the deep. India will play him much better on their pitches. Play 4 quicks (Broad, stokes, woakes,ball ) and one spinner (Ali or Batty) and try to stay in the game.

With Ali now batting at no.5 you could have him in as a batsman who bowls!
With Stokes being a genuine all rounder who bats at 6, the side is much easier to balance.  We can have plenty of bowling options, without having to weaken the batting.

I'd like to see a lineup along the lines of:

Cook*
Hameed
Root
Duckett
Ali
Stokes
Bairstow+
Woakes
Ansari/Batty
Broad
Ball

Admittedly, this is very unlikely to happen though...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 02, 2016, 12:54:41 PM
Don't worry lads India have recalled the woeful Ishant Sharma and retained the has been Gautam Gambhir. We can't lose
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on November 02, 2016, 05:58:25 PM
Few injuries for the Indians, no rohit, rahul or dhawan.
Likely only 2 lefty's in their line up

Rahul will be a big loss. Big opportunity for Karun Nair to shine and have a permanent spot. Very talented bloke...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: GoodLeave on November 04, 2016, 02:31:52 PM
Just seen that the BCCI is being investigated. Therefore they are unable to pay for the hotel/travel costs of the England Team (Customary that hosts pay for such things). Indian press reporting that England might pull out.

Doubt it will happen. But, if I were Bayliss, I'd be tempted to suggest we cover the bill... if we get Ashwin in return.  :D

http://www.skysports.com/share/10643911 (http://www.skysports.com/share/10643911)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 04, 2016, 02:40:39 PM
Just seen that the BCCI is being investigated. Therefore they are unable to pay for the hotel/travel costs of the England Team (Customary that hosts pay for such things). Indian press reporting that England might pull out.

Doubt it will happen. But, if I were Bayliss, I'd be tempted to suggest we cover the bill... if we get Ashwin in return.  :D

England wont pull out but it's a bit of an unusual situation...sounds like England are caught in Indian political muscle flexing.

handy if we could claim a game thou as no one has any cash to pay the taxi to the ground  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 04, 2016, 03:33:19 PM
my Indian supporting mate just texted me to say the 2017 IPL is certain to be cancelled by the Supreme Court of India and the 3 judges who issued the Lohda report.

if that was to be the case.......holy cow that would send shockwaves thru cricket..... :o
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 04, 2016, 03:40:47 PM
Pretty sure that the 2017 IPL tv rights are already set so it can't be cancelled as lots of vendors have already paid such as sky sports in U.K.

This Lodhra report wants the BCCI president to step down...he's a very rich chap and won't
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 04, 2016, 03:54:19 PM
Pretty sure that the 2017 IPL tv rights are already set so it can't be cancelled as lots of vendors have already paid such as sky sports in U.K.

This Lodhra report wants the BCCI president to step down...he's a very rich chap and won't

its trying to wipe out the corruption thru the BCCI and might take the whole lot with it is my info.

I think everyone has known for years it's corrupt
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: dcullen8 on November 04, 2016, 03:58:05 PM
Anyone think of a nation with the right stadiums & infrastructure to take over if the ipl goes tits up.. ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: billyb on November 04, 2016, 10:16:12 PM
Anyone think of a nation with the right stadiums & infrastructure to take over if the ipl goes tits up.. ;)
Zimbabwe?  :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 04, 2016, 10:41:40 PM
IPL is pretty much irreplaceable. No other country has 10-12 venues with capacities ranging from 40,000 up to 85,000 seats.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 05, 2016, 03:04:43 PM
Jimmy A ok for the second test which is great news if you support England!

The wickets might not be ideal but we need his quality and experience...

Wonder if we will go with four seamers and just two spinners for most of the series.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 05, 2016, 04:04:47 PM
Anyone think of a nation with the right stadiums & infrastructure to take over if the ipl goes tits up.. ;)

Hope you don't mean England? Stadium capacity must be the poorest out of all the nations. Can't imagine kohli or ab raring at the chance of playing in front of 7000 people
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 05, 2016, 04:12:46 PM
Jimmy A ok for the second test which is great news if you support England!

The wickets might not be ideal but we need his quality and experience...

Wonder if we will go with four seamers and just two spinners for most of the series.
Think it's a risk to use Anderson at all TBH. Only yesterday Steyn broke his shoulder after returning from a separate shoulder injury. Save Anderson for the next home summer, which will probably be the last for Anderson anyway
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on November 06, 2016, 12:12:25 PM
Hope you don't mean England? Stadium capacity must be the poorest out of all the nations. Can't imagine kohli or ab raring at the chance of playing in front of 7000 people

You only just get that at Sussex!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Batbuddy99 on November 06, 2016, 12:18:38 PM
You mean no one wants to see the Manchester Indians?
What about the Royal Challengers Brighton (& Hove)?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Tailendfielder on November 06, 2016, 01:31:42 PM
You mean no one wants to see the Manchester Indians?
What about

 Royal Challengers Brighton (& Hove)?
You forgot the chennai super birmingham bears
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 06, 2016, 01:39:39 PM
also the row over expenses continues as the BCCI cannot pay the pilot to transfer the England team around the venues and have made made a formal request one of our players, thought  to be Adil Rashid flys the plane.

the ECB have rejected this request saying they cannot possibly predict where they would land.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 06, 2016, 05:28:08 PM
also the row over expenses continues as the BCCI cannot pay the pilot to transfer the England team around the venues and have made made a formal request one of our players, thought  to be Adil Rashid flys the plane.

the ECB have rejected this request saying they cannot possibly predict where they would land.

Well it won't be in line with the runway
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ajnabi02 on November 07, 2016, 01:40:17 PM
also the row over expenses continues as the BCCI cannot pay the pilot to transfer the England team around the venues and have made made a formal request one of our players, thought  to be Adil Rashid flys the plane.

the ECB have rejected this request saying they cannot possibly predict where they would land.

Com'on, Adil at least lands most of the deliveries when compared to Imran Tahir (in tests)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ajnabi02 on November 07, 2016, 01:43:24 PM
Jimmy A ok for the second test which is great news if you support England!

The wickets might not be ideal but we need his quality and experience...

Wonder if we will go with four seamers and just two spinners for most of the series.
I would rest Anderson, and go with Woakes, Ball, Adil, Moeen, Ansari, Stokes. Call Jimmy, if the quicks fail.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 07, 2016, 01:49:58 PM
having seen Steyn break down in the SA match with a shoulder problem, im sure England will be making sure Jimmy is def 100 per cent fit before clearing him to play

bowlers his age could be just one injury away from retirement

as for Imran Tahir, he does bowl some buffet stuff...BUT has the uncanny habit of picking up hatfuls of wickets sometimes!!!    as his wicket celebrations are fantastically silly
 :) :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mr_Orange on November 07, 2016, 02:50:33 PM
Looks like Sam Billings has joined up with the squad, nothing 100% official but it looks like him in this picture they've tweeted with the caption 'Who's hiding behind the medicine ball?'...

https://twitter.com/englandcricket/status/795578134074519552

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cwp2FgGXEAQ3hvN.jpg)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 07, 2016, 03:57:57 PM
That will be Batty

Here's the pitch two days away from the game. I'm no expert but it's gonna bloody turn

(https://i.reddituploads.com/05eddb06fe684186b7dd28f96a75b4f1?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=3ab2abf85c199ad29631c9cecf20a2a1)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 07, 2016, 04:04:47 PM
And here was me thinking they would produce a green top :D.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 07, 2016, 04:09:43 PM
That'll be gone by Wednesday, by magic
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 07, 2016, 04:15:08 PM
Never seen a pitch in Rajkot with so many cracks on it before the match has even started...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 07, 2016, 04:15:27 PM
it shoud'nt matter that much but I sure hope we win the toss.
 :)
NZ got stuffed out there and lost all the tosses
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on November 07, 2016, 06:22:23 PM
Get the seamers on to hit those cracks! This could be over within 3 days!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: GoodLeave on November 07, 2016, 08:03:08 PM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cwp2FgGXEAQ3hvN.jpg)

What's Woakes looking at here... (Far right)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: dcullen8 on November 07, 2016, 09:05:28 PM
Probably that ripped little calf!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: jamielsn15 on November 08, 2016, 07:50:11 AM
Hameed to open,  duckett at 4. Like that. Still think the selectors limited their options and were too hasty picking the India side, but that's a good kobe.  Sounds like hameed was majorly impressing in the nets.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 08, 2016, 08:10:34 AM
They are only 1 Test too late! They should have done this in Bangladesh, rather than throwing him in against India, but better late than never!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 08, 2016, 08:19:26 AM
Finally hammeed gets a go! Hope the lad does well and it already looks a more balanced side with duckett at 4

Although cook must have had more opening partners than anyone else in world cricket!!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ElPerro on November 08, 2016, 08:24:01 AM
Finally hammeed gets a go! Hope the lad does well and it already looks a more balanced side with duckett at 4

Although cook must have had more opening partners than anyone else in world cricket!!!

I reckon you're right but David Warners had quite a few as well
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 08, 2016, 08:33:57 AM
Cook hinting he will stand down as captain after this series, bit of a surprise, thought he'd stay until the Ashes
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 08, 2016, 08:41:07 AM
Cook may stay Captain until the Ashes. He has only hinted that he will be handing it back but hasn't said when. Could be after India or could be after next Ashes, or any time in between.
Root to take over?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 08, 2016, 08:48:37 AM
I think the press have got 2 and 2 and made 5.
Cook will skipper at home as well i think next year

Great news about hameed, the team looks bettet with duckett in for ballance at 4
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Johnny on November 08, 2016, 08:48:38 AM
Would be nice if England D's middle order could have the chance to settle down before Root has to take on the captaincy. If he takes time to adjust to it (I.e. dip in form) then we really are screwed
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 08, 2016, 08:57:35 AM
Would be nice if England D's middle order could have the chance to settle down before Root has to take on the captaincy. If he takes time to adjust to it (I.e. dip in form) then we really are screwed

exactly right. I think that's what Cook will want to plan. we have had quite a few changes in recent years after a virtually unmoveable batting order  of strauss,cook,trott,kp,bell
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: joeljonno on November 08, 2016, 09:43:52 AM
I think the press have got 2 and 2 and made 5.
Cook will skipper at home as well i think next year

Great news about hameed, the team looks bettet with duckett in for ballance at 4

All he said was it could be two months, or a year.  He never really said much more than the obvious. 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 08, 2016, 10:02:02 AM
All he said was it could be two months, or a year.  He never really said much more than the obvious. 

indeed....

im not sure joe root is a bolt on successor either......

what does everyone think?   im not convinced he will be captain after Cook.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 08, 2016, 10:14:27 AM
indeed....

im not sure joe root is a bolt on successor either......

what does everyone think?   im not convinced he will be captain after Cook.

I do think itll will be root, with stokes as V/C
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 08, 2016, 02:27:24 PM
BCCI threatening to cancel the Test match unless the judges investigating them tell them they are great and wonderful and carry on with the corruption

The BCCI is the same organisation ECB could not wait to jump into bed with and cut up the financial pie with the Aussies, leaving the rest of world cricket......to feed on the scraps and forget about spreading the worldwide game.


Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on November 08, 2016, 03:47:05 PM
We should just come home - we're having to pay for it all anyway!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 08, 2016, 04:44:23 PM
i am so glad they have given Hameed a go.. as others have said it's only a few tests late!

i also wonder whether they might think about a slight jiggle in the middle because even with Duckett moving to 4 instead of Ballance we are still 3 lefties in a row.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 08, 2016, 04:47:01 PM
easy way round that would be shift barrstow up which wouldnt be too bad if we've skittled india and hes not had much to do behind the stumps
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 08, 2016, 06:15:57 PM
Early night tonight. Alarm set for 3:30am

Make test cricket great again
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 08, 2016, 07:05:07 PM
Don't think the order of left/right handers makes much difference unless you're prepared to change the order on the fly to avoid having two of the same in together, which we obviously won't. Just good that not everyone is left handed.

Terrible timing for this test - I'm on nights, no way am I gonna be able to watch the whole day without a serious lack of sleep. Starts at 6am each day right? Edit: oh snap it starts at 4am, what am I gonna do now ha.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 08, 2016, 07:08:37 PM
3.30 am I thought.

Do we actually know the team?. It's hameed for ballance yes but the bowlers are not announced to my knowledge.

Think we go 3 seamers and batty, Ali and.........ansari over Rashid I guess.

I would play 2 spinners thou with 4 seamers. Batty and Ali...

Jake ball plays for me instead of Finn from the Bangladesh test
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: GoodLeave on November 08, 2016, 07:16:46 PM
Early night tonight. Alarm set for 3:30am

Make test cricket great again

Well said, that man.

I suddenly feel the urge to build a wall... and get Piers Morgan to pay for it?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Johnny on November 08, 2016, 09:34:34 PM
Bugger! In my head this was gonna start 5am like in Bangladesh.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 09, 2016, 03:33:42 AM
Cookie won the toss and we are batting
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 09, 2016, 03:51:50 AM
Cracking start to the tour that, verdict on sky seems to be that it's a good track. 3/3 it is, Ansari and Rash both play. Outrageous batting lineup, early chance to show what he's made of for Hameed too. Few key Indian players with poor records against England, say it quietly but if we can keep them quiet we've got a damn good chance.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 09, 2016, 04:05:50 AM
Dropped Cook already, lol
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 09, 2016, 04:07:36 AM
Cracking first over that, what a drop though. I'd be absolutely crapping myself if I dropped Cook 3rd ball of a test!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 09, 2016, 04:59:57 AM
Hameed with some gorgeous shots so far
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 09, 2016, 05:05:24 AM
Dumbfounded to why Cook didn't review, thats going miles down leg
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 09, 2016, 05:08:15 AM
Hameed showing wisdom beyond his years there, saving the reviews for himself.

"Dunno skip, looked plumb to me"
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: InternalTraining on November 09, 2016, 05:14:07 AM
^ LOL
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 09, 2016, 05:41:46 AM
Nice start for Haseeb...probably unwise to listen to Broad on the review front though LOL
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 09, 2016, 06:01:59 AM
102/3 probably an even session. Would've said it was ours until Duckett got out.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on November 09, 2016, 06:04:41 AM
Could have been much better from India's perspective, two drop catches in first 20 mins crucial....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: jimmy23 on November 09, 2016, 07:36:08 AM
Anyone else notice Root wearing what looks like an updated version of the Shrey helmet?
The 'Air' and 'Shrey' branding looks printed on as opposed to the stickers that peel off like on Ali's at the other end...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Cow_corner on November 09, 2016, 07:36:30 AM
Cook not reviewing very odd.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 09, 2016, 07:54:55 AM
Good partnership building here. Thought the pitch would turn a lot more on day 1. Looks a good batting track
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on November 09, 2016, 08:55:21 AM
Obviously missed the first session, how did the young lad Hameed bat? I know he only got 31, but that;s about 30 more than many nervous English debutants?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2016, 08:58:22 AM
look composed from the clips I saw earlier. missed a straight one to get out but BBC text saying he looked pretty good while it lasted

he's got talent this lad, and most of all temperament
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 09, 2016, 08:58:48 AM
Obviously missed the first session, how did the young lad Hameed bat? I know he only got 31, but that;s about 30 more than many nervous English debutants?

Very organised and composed until the over he got out in and should have told cook to review and not review himself (although root told him too)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 09, 2016, 09:09:17 AM
Obviously missed the first session, how did the young lad Hameed bat? I know he only got 31, but that;s about 30 more than many nervous English debutants?

Got lucky with a couple of edges but looked OK overall and played a couple of genuinely classy cover drives.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on November 09, 2016, 09:18:14 AM
looks more like an opener than the last few

By that I mean he just seemed a bit more sure of himself but only a glimpse lets see after 10 or so tests
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 09, 2016, 09:20:40 AM
ROOOOOOOOOOOOOT
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 09, 2016, 09:21:02 AM
100 up for root...first overseas player to score a 100 in india since 2013!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2016, 09:21:34 AM
yeah let's leave the kid in and let him settle. we've had too many openers in the last 2 years.

ton up for joe root.

how good is this lad. pride of Yorkshire

and for us Southerners, our favourite flat capper.

well batted son,that's class  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 09, 2016, 09:58:07 AM
100 up for root...first overseas player to score a 100 in india since 2013!!

1st toss won by an opposing captain in last 3 years? :) ;) :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2016, 10:01:14 AM
1st toss won by an opposing captain in last 3 years? :) ;) :)

We provided the coin due to BCCI asset freeze we are entitled to win it

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on November 09, 2016, 10:02:26 AM
Just think

If ROOOOOOT becomes captain the best 4 players in the world will all be the captains of their side

Kholi
ROOOOOOOOOT
Smith
Williamson

Yes in that order
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 09, 2016, 10:04:55 AM
Anyone else notice Root wearing what looks like an updated version of the Shrey helmet?
The 'Air' and 'Shrey' branding looks printed on as opposed to the stickers that peel off like on Ali's at the other end...

But Ali has as SS helmet, it says so on the back!  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 09, 2016, 10:07:54 AM
Just think

If ROOOOOOT becomes captain the best 4 players in the world will all be the captains of their side

Kholi
ROOOOOOOOOT
Smith
Williamson

Yes in that order

Thinking about this now it isn't too radical a call, but go back as recently as 2 years ago and tell people Smiffy would be Australia's Test Captain and one of the World's best players, you'd have been taken away by the men in white coats!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 09, 2016, 10:13:48 AM
Good knock on a good deck to be honest, however I would have sent YJB in next as the left/right hand combination has upset the rhythm of the Indian bowlers.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2016, 10:14:36 AM
BBC text saying Root was not out.

I have never understood bowlers throwing the ball in the air when they don't have it under control
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 09, 2016, 10:16:30 AM
Yadav got away with one big time, if he had it under control why was he trying to catch it again?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2016, 10:20:03 AM
Yadav got away with one big time, if he had it under control why was he trying to catch it again?

exactly!!! 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 09, 2016, 10:21:38 AM
Batsmen get no sympathy from me  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 09, 2016, 10:25:08 AM
Just think

If ROOOOOOT becomes captain the best 4 players in the world will all be the captains of their side

Kholi
ROOOOOOOOOT
Smith
Williamson

Yes in that order

Would rate williamson right now top of that list. Runs and big runs in all conditions and against all teams
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 09, 2016, 10:38:02 AM
The problem with the root decision was the umpire was quick to give  Joe out  therefore once the decision has been given   To get it overturned the replay needs to prove  the bowler did not have the ball under his  control
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2016, 10:43:11 AM
is it me or has some of the umpiring in recent tests been absolutely shocking?

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on November 09, 2016, 10:46:38 AM
Would rate williamson right now top of that list. Runs and big runs in all conditions and against all teams

TBH not seen much of Williamson of late but I would rate Kholi top of list in any format as he is just pure class and unreal talent.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 09, 2016, 10:52:22 AM
Yadav got away with one big time, if he had it under control why was he trying to catch it again?

You could spin it round and ask why, if he didn't have it under control, did Root start walking off immediately?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 09, 2016, 11:01:11 AM
You could spin it round and ask why, if he didn't have it under control, did Root start walking off immediately?
Because he thought I was caught, before Yadav cocked it up? Not sure what Root's reaction has to do with it anyway tbh. On-field umpires bottled it and stitched the third umpire up by giving a soft signal if you ask me, slomo was never going to find a reason to overturn a decision either way. Those are given no 99% of the time.

Kohli isn't even on the same planet as Williamson in tests, sorry!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: token on November 09, 2016, 11:05:16 AM
Amla? AB de Villiers? Brave man naming a top four without either of those two...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 09, 2016, 11:10:20 AM
England score 311 on day one something touring teams  havent done for some time different game for India not what they  are used to playing at home.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 09, 2016, 11:12:04 AM
England score 311 on day one something touring teams  havent done for some time different game for India not what they  are used to playing at home.

Pitch is a lot flatter than what they've produced against other sides. Might be the reason why...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 09, 2016, 11:21:20 AM
I suspect that India losing the toss and therefore not batting first for the first time for quite a while also has something to do with it?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2016, 11:23:50 AM
doesn't look like big turn early on and batting first is a huge bonus, we do need 500 thou.

could be first game in this stadium they want the pitch to last maybe?

not well attended either, not sure this is right but ground is 15 miles from the nearest town and no public transport........
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 09, 2016, 11:23:58 AM
Pitch is a lot flatter than what they've produced against other sides. Might be the reason why...

Lol... LBH New Zealand, including Williamson gave away their wickets on a couple of flat decks during that last series.
I am all for being bias... But come on my kiwi friend.
From an unbiased point of few I would put Williamson ahead of Kohli as a test match batsman. Williamson has made more runs in unfavourable conditions than Kohli has...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 09, 2016, 11:28:16 AM
I suspect that India losing the toss and therefore not batting first for the first time for quite a while also has something to do with it?

Yep, last time a visiting team won a toss in India was three years ago almost to the day iirc
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 09, 2016, 11:28:37 AM
doesn't look like big turn early on and batting first is a huge bonus, we do need 500 thou.

could be first game in this stadium they want the pitch to last maybe?

not well attended either, not sure this is right but ground is 15 miles from the nearest town and no public transport........

Think the main reason for lack of crowd could be that the Indian government cut certain rupee notes out of circulation over night in an attempt to "weed out " money launderers...

Meant cash machines were out of order...

India and corruptio... Who'd have thought it?? :o
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on November 09, 2016, 11:29:12 AM
Ganguly did say he wanted pitches to be batsmen friendly on day 1/2 to help prepare indian bowlers for bowling away from home

Maybe this the start

I love the controversy of naming top batsmen hahahaha
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 09, 2016, 11:44:16 AM
God I love test cricket
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 09, 2016, 12:37:07 PM
Just think

If ROOOOOOT becomes captain the best 4 players in the world will all be the captains of their side

Kholi
ROOOOOOOOOT
Smith
Williamson

Yes in that order

Reckon you could argue top five, with AB De Villiers. Your order is all screwy though...

Williamson
Root
De Villiers
Kohli
Smith
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on November 09, 2016, 12:40:55 PM
Reckon you could argue top five, with AB De Villiers. Your order is all screwy though...

Williamson
Root
De Villiers
Kohli
Smith

Right you name time and place

i'll name brand of handbag and i'll tickle you silly for daring to disagree with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously though I have not seen much of Williamson lately but every time I watch Kholi I think he is cheating somehow as he makes it look too easy
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 09, 2016, 01:43:33 PM
Right you name time and place

i'll name brand of handbag and i'll tickle you silly for daring to disagree with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously though I have not seen much of Williamson lately but every time I watch Kholi I think he is cheating somehow as he makes it look too easy

He does sometimes, yes.  But he is prone to going missing sometimes, which Kane, Rooooooot and AB are not.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 09, 2016, 01:56:21 PM
IIRC the previous ground in Gujarat was in Ahmedabad and that was a flat road. They've move to a new stadia yet the pitch seems to have transfers over...Always thought Gujarat was a bit like Lords, a cooperate ground ensuring 5 days to fill the bank balance. Otherwise after seeing how suspect England where in Bangladesh, I thought there'd be dustbowls on demand
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 09, 2016, 01:57:18 PM
Lol... LBH New Zealand, including Williamson gave away their wickets on a couple of flat decks during that last series.
I am all for being bias... But come on my kiwi friend.
From an unbiased point of few I would put Williamson ahead of Kohli as a test match batsman. Williamson has made more runs in unfavourable conditions than Kohli has...
Kohli has scored most of his hundreds outside India so that doesn't hold much water...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2016, 02:02:08 PM
IIRC the previous ground in Gujarat was in Ahmedabad and that was a flat road. They've move to a new stadia yet the pitch seems to have transfers over...Always thought Gujarat was a bit like Lords, a cooperate ground ensuring 5 days to fill the bank balance. Otherwise after seeing how suspect England where in Bangladesh, I thought there'd be dustbowls on demand

if I read Ganguly's comments correctly he is saying dustbowls don't benefit india for away games which is what he wants them to achieve(better results away)

this is interesting thinking I actually think that is good logic.....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 09, 2016, 02:07:19 PM
if I read Ganguly's comments correctly he is saying dustbowls don't benefit india for away games which is what he wants them to achieve(better results away)

this is interesting thinking I actually think that is good logic.....
I always chuckle when Ganguly opens his mouth. When he was Indian captain he begged for ranging turners. Yes it doesn't help India in away matches. But first and foremost you want to win your home matches
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2016, 02:11:33 PM
I always chuckle when Ganguly opens his mouth. When he was Indian captain he begged for ranging turners. Yes it doesn't help India in away matches. But first and foremost you want to win your home matches

yes of course that's true.

India's record at home thou is pretty formidable. we won away 4 years ago......don't know the stats but would say away teams to get a series win have got to play out of their skin.

I actually cannot remember the last home series India lost apart from against England.....there's not many is recent years..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 09, 2016, 02:14:10 PM
Kohli has scored most of his hundreds outside India so that doesn't hold much water...
Sorry, but for me W.Indies, Australia ( over 3 years ago before the flat tracks!') and England are places he needs to improve ( in tests)..
Granted he made a 200 in a Match against the West indies but even Ballance has made runs against them.
It's all about opinions obviously and for me Williamson over Kohli in tests in England, West indies and Scotland...

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 09, 2016, 02:14:57 PM
yes of course that's true.

India's record at home thou is pretty formidable. we won away 4 years ago......don't know the stats but would say away teams to get a series win have got to play out of their skin.

I actually cannot remember the last home series India lost apart from against England.....there's not many is recent years..
Now you mention it their current streak is 12 unbeaten(10 wins and 2 draws according to twitter)

Apart from us winning there, I think the last home series defeat was back in 2004 to Australia
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 09, 2016, 02:16:53 PM
Sorry, but for me W.Indies, Australia ( over 3 years ago before the flat tracks!') and England are places he needs to improve ( in tests)..
Granted he made a 200 in a Match against the West indies but even Ballance has made runs against them.
It's all about opinions obviously and for me Williamson over Kohli in tests in England, West indies and Scotland...
Only country Kohli doesn't have a hundred in is England. So tick off South Africa, New Zealand, Australia(he scored a hundred there back in 2010), West Indies, Sri Lanka
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 09, 2016, 02:23:42 PM
Only country Kohli doesn't have a hundred in is England. So tick off South Africa, New Zealand, Australia(he scored a hundred there back in 2010), West Indies, Sri Lanka

I didn't say he wasn't talented.... I just prefer Williamson over Kohli for test matches away from their home soil.
Also, I don't understand your point about Kohli scoring a 100 in.various countries because I believe Ross Taylor has 100's in most of those countries but I still wouldn't have him over Kohli or Williamson.

.



Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 09, 2016, 02:25:21 PM
I didn't say he wasn't talented.... I just prefer Williamson over Kohli for test matches away from their home soil.
Also, I don't understand your point about Kohli scoring a 100 in.various countries because I believe Ross Taylor has 100's in most of those countries but I still wouldn't have him over Kohli or Williamson.

.
It's not a comparable scenario anyway. Kohli is a stroke maker whereas Williamson is more like Amla. Kills you slowly
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 09, 2016, 02:30:59 PM
It's not a comparable scenario anyway. Kohli is a stroke maker whereas Williamson is more like Amla. Kills you slowly

Wouldn't disagree and hence why Williamson would be in my test side but not my one day team..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 09, 2016, 02:36:30 PM
Wouldn't disagree and hence why Williamson would be in my test side but not my one day team..
I could watch Williamson bat all 90 overs and still be on 0*.  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on November 09, 2016, 06:08:56 PM
Amla? AB de Villiers? Brave man naming a top four without either of those two...

that will be unfair, they both have played close to 100 test and these 4 are at <50
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: dcullen8 on November 09, 2016, 06:26:30 PM
Whether youve played 50 or 100 tests, if youre one of the world best youll be compared to the worlds best.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 09, 2016, 07:40:15 PM
Anyone know of any highlights being shown of day 1?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on November 09, 2016, 07:52:02 PM
Sky Sports @8
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2016, 07:54:22 PM
Sky Sports @8

Yes and Bob with a smile on his face hopefully in the verdict.

 :).
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on November 09, 2016, 08:00:22 PM
He's still bitching on about selection in Dhaka.

We should get him on here.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on November 09, 2016, 09:04:27 PM
Please can someone find the post from about a year ago when I said moeen should bat at 5!!

What moeen is better than any other batsman in the English team is a builder of partnerships. He rotates the strike well and releases pressure by taking calculated risk.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 09, 2016, 09:09:19 PM
Yeah I'll find it for ya

Found your ones about Hales should be opening there's a few of those.

 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on November 09, 2016, 09:32:10 PM
Yeah I'll find it for ya

Found your ones about Hales should be opening there's a few of those.

 :)

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about 😁😜 :o
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: uknsaunders on November 09, 2016, 10:20:43 PM
Yeah I'll find it for ya

Found your ones about Hales should be opening there's a few of those.

 :)

While you are at it, find my Root should bat at 3 repeated posts  :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 10, 2016, 05:30:52 AM
Bloody hell, how many chances are India going to drop
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 10, 2016, 06:43:25 AM
You cant keep dropping them at this level but its helped us big time.
This is an odd match...theres no spin i call really see and the stadium is half empty.
Not what i thought at all.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 10, 2016, 06:46:12 AM
Just waiting for the

"Drop woakes he only made 4" post............
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mantis on November 10, 2016, 06:48:07 AM
Woakes had no Gray Nics stamps on his edges either.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: GoodLeave on November 10, 2016, 07:44:43 AM
OK then.

Who had "England rack up 500 in game one".

Hands up.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 10, 2016, 07:46:56 AM
No hands from me!! :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 10, 2016, 07:52:49 AM
OK then.

Who had "England rack up 500 in game one".

Hands up.

*raises hand*

you didn't specify how many times I expected them to have to bat to get them... :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 10, 2016, 08:15:02 AM
Test cricket in the Trump era has been pretty good
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on November 10, 2016, 09:10:38 AM
Three good hundreds of different guises. Root looked serene from the crease, Moeen's fearless use of his feet to the spinners, and Stokes' brilliant but sometimes skittish effort.

Well played Zaf too, to get close to 550 is an effort I didn't expect.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 10, 2016, 09:42:09 AM
Really good effort by England, could do with a few 3/4 wickets this session and i feel we must hit kohli hard!! test his patience and really attack him early on!!! rahane a key wicket too
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 10, 2016, 09:53:07 AM
A great effort from England. So didn't see this coming. Will be intrigued to see how this indian batting fairs under scoreboard pressure!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: jblowe on November 10, 2016, 10:30:10 AM
Does anyone know what make ball they are using? Is it a SG?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: jblowe on November 10, 2016, 10:34:50 AM
Does anyone know what make ball they are using? Is it a SG?

Thanks Nasser Hussain, two minutes after I posted, he announced they are using a SG  ball...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 10, 2016, 10:41:37 AM
Stuart Broad is bowling quicker than ive seen him bowl in ages .....one over included 146, 145 , 144 km per hour . He's found the fountain of youth or something !  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on November 10, 2016, 11:00:38 AM
Stuart Broad is bowling quicker than ive seen him bowl in ages .....one over included 146, 145 , 144 km per hour . He's found the fountain of youth or something !  :)

Cocaine
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 10, 2016, 11:08:27 AM
Just watching Rashid and Ansari bowl in tandem a.t.m. You Poms keep heaping s@#t on these guys , but as an Aussie I'd kill to have those two , plus Ali , on our tour to India in February!
We have Lyon , O'keefe , Maxwell,  Agar , Zampa , Swepson , Beer , Boyse , Rose , Holland etc to choose from .  ;) :(
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 10, 2016, 11:14:12 AM
Also.....is this the longest batting line up /best tail England (or anyone) have had in decades , or what ?!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 10, 2016, 11:39:53 AM
Just watching Rashid and Ansari bowl in tandem a.t.m. You Poms keep heaping s@#t on these guys , but as an Aussie I'd kill to have those two , plus Ali , on our tour to India in February!
We have Lyon , O'keefe , Maxwell,  Agar , Zampa , Swepson , Beer , Boyse , Rose , Holland etc to choose from .  ;) :(

I'm going to pass up on the chance to diss Clubbie Lyon at this point and focus instead on the bigger issue.  Which is that neither country seems to take spin bowling that seriously in the longer form of the game ay the moment; Graeme Swann had it more or less right when he said that they were picked for an over before lunch, two to tea and five before the new ball in most sides.

That said, O'Keefe has done okay in sub-continental conditions from what I've seen - he may not be a stellar performer, but he should hold his own.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 10, 2016, 11:44:15 AM
Also.....is this the longest batting line up /best tail England (or anyone) have had in decades , or what ?!!

Its a Manx cat of a line up, thats for sure.

Woakes at eight - proper player
Rashid at nine - a little loose sometimes but good enough to have batted five in first class cricket
Ansari at ten - not seen so much of him, but has opened in first class cricket
Broad - more of a lower order player nowadays, but definitely no rabbit
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 10, 2016, 12:00:21 PM
Ansari does strengthen the tail as he can def bat

We probably wanted 2 spinners away from the right handers but he maybe his batting got him in ahead of batty
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 10, 2016, 12:19:44 PM
Can't imagine they'd make that kind of call on the basis of the more talented number ten.  That's be ridiculous.

Wait, this is the England selectors we are speaking about...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Rob580 on November 10, 2016, 01:19:26 PM
Should've picked Batty. He's from Yorkshire......
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 10, 2016, 01:45:45 PM
Don't really see the need to have batting down to number 10 unless it's to compensate for a inconsistent top order. When you end up with 6 bowlers more times than not 2 end up doing very little. As we saw in Chittagong batting down to number 10 didn't make much difference. Chris Woakes looks 'world class' in English conditions yet when it doesn't swing he's lacks the skill to trouble top class players. Ansari is neither a batsman nor a bowler. I'd bring in Anderson and Batty for Woakes and Ansari.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: GoodLeave on November 10, 2016, 01:50:32 PM
Just watching Rashid and Ansari bowl in tandem a.t.m. You Poms keep heaping s@#t on these guys , but as an Aussie I'd kill to have those two , plus Ali , on our tour to India in February!
We have Lyon , O'keefe , Maxwell,  Agar , Zampa , Swepson , Beer , Boyse , Rose , Holland etc to choose from .  ;) :(

Beer. Remember this guy?

Not very often people covet Adil Rashid, let alone an Aussie. Must be bad!

Also. Swepson, Boyse & Rose... Who?  :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: dcullen8 on November 10, 2016, 01:59:35 PM
People are so quick to rid the team of Woakes because it isnt swinging for him, Yet Anderson has openly admitted he needed time to learn how to bowl in the subcontinent and develop things like  the Wobble-Seam delivery. Imagine if we just chucked him out because he couldnt swing it in asia..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 10, 2016, 02:02:18 PM
People are so quick to rid the team of Woakes because it isnt swinging for him, Yet Anderson has openly admitted he needed time to learn how to bowl in the subcontinent and develop things like  the Wobble-Seam delivery. Imagine if we just chucked him out because he couldnt swing it in asia..
When you have Stokes, Woakes is no more than a luxury in these conditions. Need bowlers who can take 20 wickets. Not bowlers who will get a few runs and be toothless with the ball.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 10, 2016, 02:31:31 PM
When you have Stokes, Woakes is no more than a luxury in these conditions. Need bowlers who can take 20 wickets. Not bowlers who will get a few runs and be toothless with the ball.

Tell that to the Australian selectors  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 10, 2016, 02:49:55 PM
When you have Stokes, Woakes is no more than a luxury in these conditions. Need bowlers who can take 20 wickets. Not bowlers who will get a few runs and be toothless with the ball.

Luxury yes having watched  this morning did nothing with the bat  and bowled to short or to wide I think it's to easy tto look at players averages and not take into consideration the number of not outs or tail enders dismissed also in the summer in UK conditions Sri Lanka were poor and  So were Pakistan until the sun came out
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: dcullen8 on November 10, 2016, 02:51:49 PM
Lets drop woakes then, risk a recovering and now injury prone Anderson and in 2 years time when we next visit asia (most likely without Anderson and Broad) and the west indies (who werent producing absolute seamers last time we visited) we rock up with just stokes leading the line and all the other seamers having no experience of test match cricket in the subcontinent. I understand we want to win tests here and now, but england are investing in the future with players like  Duckett, Hameed and Ansari,youve also got to look to the future
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 10, 2016, 03:06:27 PM
Lets drop woakes then, risk a recovering and now injury prone Anderson and in 2 years time when we next visit asia (most likely without Anderson and Broad) and the west indies (who werent producing absolute seamers last time we visited) we rock up with just stokes leading the line and all the other seamers having no experience of test match cricket in the subcontinent. I understand we want to win tests here and now, but england are investing in the future with players like  Duckett, Hameed and Ansari,youve also got to look to the future
Don't be a moron. Jake Ball showed in Bangladesh he has to the tools to thrive in Asia. Stokes already has. Woakes hasn't. You're acting like England don't produce bowlers capable of adapting when I clearly proved you wrong
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 10, 2016, 03:10:56 PM
I think Jake Ball is a good shout and am sure he will get a game or two on this tour.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: dcullen8 on November 10, 2016, 03:15:40 PM
Why should we take a line up in the future and just expect them to adapt, why cant we blood a line up to be experienced? Stokes is a freak show and his action means he naturally reverse swings the ball, hes not just suddenly found this overnight. I dont see the ECB sending out fresh faces and saying "just go adapt". Theyve investing time and money into players for the long haul.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 10, 2016, 03:27:57 PM
Why should we take a line up in the future and just expect them to adapt, why cant we blood a line up to be experienced? Stokes is a freak show and his action means he naturally reverse swings the ball, hes not just suddenly found this overnight. I dont see the ECB sending out fresh faces and saying "just go adapt". Theyve investing time and money into players for the long haul.
Playing the #1 side in the world isn't when you 'blood new players' especially when it's a series that's considered one of the toughest. Blood players against the likes of Bangladesh and West Indies.

Jake Ball's never toured Asia better and he showed he had the skill set needed to be successful.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 10, 2016, 03:28:23 PM
Beer. Remember this guy?

Not very often people covet Adil Rashid, let alone an Aussie. Must be bad!

Also. Swepson, Boyse & Rose... Who?  :D



Exactly ! Who ? ....yes it's slim pickings , although I forgot Fawad Ahmed , hahaha.  My bad .
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on November 10, 2016, 03:32:41 PM
Woakes has been one of England's best players this year.

It seems extraordinary that people are saying he is a luxury. And yet I am not surprised.

We are 2 days into a test match with runs on the board let's wait a bit before we start dissing the team for once.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 10, 2016, 03:33:51 PM
Agreed with Buzz. Woakes has been great this season and its unreasonable to question his spot already.

Definitely need some patience here.  :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 10, 2016, 03:35:52 PM
Quote
In 2016, Stokes' batting average in Test cricket is 57.25 and his bowling average 19.80

Can everyone remember when people were calling for Stokes to be dropped, as he was apparently a bit part player who wasn't good enough for test cricket as either a batsman or a bowler?

I hate to say this, (actually, i don't) but "I TOLD YOU SO!"
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: dcullen8 on November 10, 2016, 03:40:13 PM
Playing the #1 side in the world isn't when you 'blood new players' especially when it's a series that's considered one of the toughest.
And yet here we are with duckett hameed and ansari, and you still want to drop an experienced player. Great logic.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 10, 2016, 03:46:46 PM
All of this makes it sound like we're in a crisis. Ah.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Johnny on November 10, 2016, 03:49:39 PM
Err.. they did drop him didn't they?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 10, 2016, 03:50:28 PM
And yet here we are with duckett hameed and ansari, and you still want to drop an experienced player. Great logic.
Ansari and Duckett debuted against Bangladesh...Hameed should've debuted against Bangladesh...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 10, 2016, 03:51:25 PM
Woakes has been one of England's best players this year.

It seems extraordinary that people are saying he is a luxury. And yet I am not surprised.

We are 2 days into a test match with runs on the board let's wait a bit before we start dissing the team for once.
Woakes has been one of England's best players in English conditions...Bangladesh and India aren't in England
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 10, 2016, 03:51:44 PM
Basically , here's the deal  - everyone chill out and have a biscuit . You might be able to tweak the team a little bit , a player here or there , but essentially it's a bloody good side you've got . You have a legit chance of beating India in India after all ! And even if you don't it won't be all bad . Just accept players ( particularly pacemen ) having some bad days over there without calling for their heads . I mean , geez , dropping Woakes ? .... are ya freal ? If you don't want him then send him over here to Oz - we'll swap you for M.Marsh , Enriques, Christian,  Stoinis , a first round draft pick , and a Michael Jordan rookie card .
Seriously,  just hold tight with the nucleus of your team ....you'll be glad you did next year when you smash us in the Ashes .
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 10, 2016, 03:52:40 PM
Agreed with Buzz. Woakes has been great this season and its unreasonable to question his spot already.

Definitely need some patience here.  :D

He probably won't play in the next test  unless theirs  injuries as the wicket is a a known turner and Broad bowls better when he as Jimmy  opening with him as for the future if he can stay fit Mark wood is a  far better bowler.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 10, 2016, 03:56:00 PM
He probably won't play in the next test  unless theirs  injuries as the wicket is a a known turner and Broad bowls better when he as Jimmy  opening with him as for the future if he can stay fit Mark wood is a  far better bowler.

Well that could depend on what he does here. He may take a few wickets and get a score 2nd dig :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on November 10, 2016, 04:01:36 PM
Woakes has been one of England's best players in English conditions...Bangladesh and India aren't in England

How do you expect players to get better in foreign conditions if they don't play?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 10, 2016, 04:02:23 PM
He probably won't play in the next test  unless theirs  injuries as the wicket is a a known turner and Broad bowls better when he as Jimmy  opening with him as for the future if he can stay fit Mark wood is a  far better bowler.

Your hatred towards Woakes seems to make you blinkered in your opinions of him.

No, he hasn't been amazing so far in the subcontinent, but you won't learn how to bowl in these conditions if you're carrying the drinks.
He's a genuine all rounder and has shown what he can do at Test level in England. Let him learn on the job in conditions less friendly to the bowlers. Jimmy Anderson has said himself he had to learn how to bowl differently in subcontinental conditions to how he does at home, and he's turned out an okay bowler. I'm confident that, given the chance, Woakes can do the same.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 10, 2016, 04:03:55 PM
Basically , here's the deal  - everyone chill out and have a biscuit . You might be able to tweak the team a little bit , a player here or there , but essentially it's a bloody good side you've got . You have a legit chance of beating India in India after all ! And even if you don't it won't be all bad . Just accept players ( particularly pacemen ) having some bad days over there without calling for their heads . I mean , geez , dropping Woakes ? .... are ya freal ? If you don't want him then send him over here to Oz - we'll swap you for M.Marsh , Enriques, Christian,  Stoinis , a first round draft pick , and a Michael Jordan rookie card .
Seriously,  just hold tight with the nucleus of your team ....you'll be glad you did next year when you smash us in the Ashes .

loving this post. can't remember are ya freal was posted on here. brother i'm HEEEEERIN YA DUDE    :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 10, 2016, 04:12:34 PM
How do you expect players to get better in foreign conditions if they don't play?
Some players have it, others don't. Woakes unfortunately doesn't have the extra gear that comes naturally to other players. And it's not just foreign conditions, when it flattens out in England he goes back to being toothless.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 10, 2016, 04:14:33 PM
Just waiting for the

"Drop woakes he only made 4" post............


I was not disappointed. We just put 500 plus on and have only bowled 23 overs and we are already wanting to drop and change players.

The English are fickle.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 10, 2016, 04:35:18 PM

I was not disappointed. We just put 500 plus on and have only bowled 23 overs and we are already wanting to drop and change players.

The English are fickle.

I'm still surprised Stokes wasn't dropped against Bangladesh after the first Test, threw away a ton and a Michelle in Chittagong, only 100 runs and 6 wickets by a seamer on a low scoring, raging bunsen. Then conveniently scores a ton on a road today to keep his place for another few tests.



 :D :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 10, 2016, 04:36:03 PM
In the past we have not had the luxury of having high class players waiting to get a game....Ball, Jimmy!
So it seems to be that people want changes because we seem to be trying to fit in too many players.

I have always said that Ball looks great and would be an obvious substitute for Broad. Woakes will hopefully learn the craft in these different conditions, especially with the likes of Anderson by his side.
It does a little complicated if Anderson is fully fit for the 2nd Test though! With 5 Tests in a short space of time, they have already talked about legitimately rotating players! So do you look at Anderson playing and resting Broad? Or do you look at resting Woakes? Also will Ball and Batty get a match? I would love to know what the plans are!  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 10, 2016, 04:49:25 PM
In the past we have not had the luxury of having high class players waiting to get a game....Ball, Jimmy!
So it seems to be that people want changes because we seem to be trying to fit in too many players.

I have always said that Ball looks great and would be an obvious substitute for Broad. Woakes will hopefully learn the craft in these different conditions, especially with the likes of Anderson by his side.
It does a little complicated if Anderson is fully fit for the 2nd Test though! With 5 Tests in a short space of time, they have already talked about legitimately rotating players! So do you look at Anderson playing and resting Broad? Or do you look at resting Woakes? Also will Ball and Batty get a match? I would love to know what the plans are!  :)

Broad had a rest in Bangladesh but yes it's got to be huge odds against 5 tests in a row we don't rotate the seamers especially. Stokes was cramping up today you can't over estimate the conditions we are in

it must be draining bowling in that heat all day, and if they bat well, 2 days in the field.

if Jimmy A comes back....hmmm tricky who to leave out. Jake Ball is real good, should of played instead of Finn in Bangla.

Woakes in when Jimmy is on the sidelines could send the forum into a tailspin  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 10, 2016, 04:57:14 PM
Some players have it, others don't. Woakes unfortunately doesn't have the extra gear that comes naturally to other players. And it's not just foreign conditions, when it flattens out in England he goes back to being toothless.

What Woakes does have though, is a drive to better himself and an excellent work ethic!

Remember when he was "too slow" for Test cricket? He went away, worked hard and put on a yard of pace.
remember when he'd initially put on that yard of pace, but lost the ability to swing the ball? He worked on his game and gained the ability to move the ball at pace.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Woakes is a talented cricketer who's not afraid to put the hard yards in. Give him the chance to develop and he'll grow into an asset to the side in all conditions. He's already proved me right in England, so I'm going to say he'll come good abroad before too long.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 10, 2016, 05:08:14 PM
He was too slow, but he's not now.

I don't quite get the downer on Woakes on the forum, he's improved massively. He's got to share the workload in India and that's part of the team, i'm sure he knows that.

Some cricketers are stars and stand out or a bit flash(broad/swann/KP) and some others do a job for the team.

I think Woakes is the latter and would not be surprised to see him in the wickets in this match or soon enough.

On flat decks, really flat decks, a lot of bowlers look a bit ordinary...

only the absolute cream of the bowlers do well on flat decks in Asia. If it don't swing Jimmy A looks a bit up and down. You wouldn't leave him out of the team.
 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 10, 2016, 05:17:14 PM
Your hatred towards Woakes seems to make you blinkered in your opinions of him.

No, he hasn't been amazing so far in the subcontinent, but you won't learn how to bowl in these conditions if you're carrying the drinks.
He's a genuine all rounder and has shown what he can do at Test level in England. Let him learn on the job in conditions less friendly to the bowlers. Jimmy Anderson has said himself he had to learn how to bowl differently in subcontinental conditions to how he does at home, and he's turned out an okay bowler. I'm confident that, given the chance, Woakes can do the same.


Not hatred or blinkered Cam just want England to  do well I know what I saw this morning  there can be  no excuse   for  bowling short to give India the start they wanted.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on November 10, 2016, 06:52:22 PM
Rajkot has produced a IPL pitch, not sure what Indian captain and management was thinking. Disappointed!!!
Doubt there will be result here, move on to second test.
- Indian supporter  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 10, 2016, 07:26:16 PM
Im amazed at this pitch to be honest.it just looks flat..
Especially after the bangla series
New stadium new pitch i guess.
This has got to be a one off wicket?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 10, 2016, 07:26:59 PM
Rajkot has produced a IPL pitch, not sure what Indian captain and management was thinking. Disappointed!!!
Doubt there will be result here, move on to second test.
- Indian supporter  :)

You could well be right having said that there's a far few cracks on that track which I guess will widen won't be easy batting last
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Biggie Smalls on November 10, 2016, 08:17:41 PM
You could well be right having said that there's a far few cracks on that track which I guess will widen won't be easy batting last


Looks a little like an Indian Wacca with all those cracks .
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: InternalTraining on November 11, 2016, 04:56:06 AM
Some great batting by team India batsmen! Pujara and Vijay will get to their 3K runs in this inning.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 11, 2016, 07:27:45 AM
Thought Pujara was a steady accumulator and mainly a blocker...when did he turn in a dasher?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 11, 2016, 08:10:05 AM
Drs saves pujura
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Kulli on November 11, 2016, 08:17:47 AM
Might as well shake hands and go home now.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 11, 2016, 08:19:39 AM
yep it's flat.

Woakes has bowled well this morning thou wickets harder to come by than a bad hell 4 leather bat.

still....keep plugging away

I suspect big turning wickets after this match otherwise it could be 0-0 after 5 games

 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 11, 2016, 08:48:51 AM
I really think India underestimated England after watching us against bangladesh and thought they could just win the toss score 500+ let the pitch deteriorate and ashwin would bowl us out.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 11, 2016, 09:18:57 AM
So if the ball turns square its an issue and if its flat its also an issue. Personally rather see the ball turning square from day 1, makes for more interesting cricket even if it only lasts 3 days.

Thought rashid bowled really well before tea. Thought cook should have kept him on.

Not a great start from Ali with the new ball
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 11, 2016, 09:21:18 AM
I really think India underestimated England after watching us against bangladesh and thought they could just win the toss score 500+ let the pitch deteriorate and ashwin would bowl us out.

pitches in Bangladesh where square turners, this pitch isn't. Still time for the pitch to deteriorate in this match
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 11, 2016, 09:31:36 AM
100 up for VJ too now. If India can get past england's score, it could get interesting
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 11, 2016, 09:35:20 AM
Vijay's like a more athletic version of Laxman, shots through the leg side are beautiful
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 11, 2016, 09:51:16 AM
This could get interesting! India could be 400-5 by close.
And then with 2 days to go, things could start changing rapidly. We've seen it lots of times, where days 4 and 5 in Asian conditions, wickets start to tumble.
If India get ahead, will be interesting to see how England fair under a bit of pressure.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 11, 2016, 09:54:53 AM
This could get interesting! India could be 400-5 by close.


Don't think they'll score 140 runs in 20 overs tonight
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 11, 2016, 09:56:33 AM
Is Stokes injured? I noticed his only bowled 6 overs....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 11, 2016, 10:01:00 AM
Don't think they'll score 140 runs in 20 overs tonight

whoops, my bad. didn't realise there were 20 overs left.  :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 11, 2016, 10:01:28 AM
I think India would want these two to get them passed the follow on mark and then increase the scoring rate when like of Kohli and Rahane get a go.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 11, 2016, 10:15:03 AM
WE GOT A WICKET ON THE CEMENT TRACK!!!! :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 11, 2016, 10:24:28 AM
WE GOT A WICKET ON THE CEMENT TRACK!!!! :)

Only a cement track when england are bowling, otherwise 3 100s on a bunsen burner ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: dcullen8 on November 11, 2016, 10:48:04 AM
Mad props for YJB lidding up to Broady.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 11, 2016, 11:28:19 AM
YES DILLY
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 11, 2016, 11:31:55 AM
Hameed is the greatest short leg fielder of all time
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 11, 2016, 11:45:11 AM
big two wickets late on!!! will need kohli and rahane out quickly before they start to take this game away form england!!

I have to say ive been really impressed with rash in this test, bowled much better than mishra and has seemed to have much more control and looked an actual threat at times
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 11, 2016, 12:07:18 PM
big two wickets late on!!! will need kohli and rahane out quickly before they start to take this game away form england!!

I have to say ive been really impressed with rash in this test, bowled much better than mishra and has seemed to have much more control and looked an actual threat at times

not sure I would say Mishra is a big wicket?

but agreed, Rahane and Kohli the key. as I am not too sure that Ashwin and Saha will pose much of a threat with the bat?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 11, 2016, 12:07:58 PM
big two wickets late on!!! will need kohli and rahane out quickly before they start to take this game away form england!!

I have to say ive been really impressed with rash in this test, bowled much better than mishra and has seemed to have much more control and looked an actual threat at times

yes me too. he has bowled better than I thought he would. England's day in the end?

even I reckon
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 11, 2016, 12:15:22 PM
not sure I would say Mishra is a big wicket?

but agreed, Rahane and Kohli the key. as I am not too sure that Ashwin and Saha will pose much of a threat with the bat?

It was more the fact two of englands spinners now have wickets and mo will be on a high after his ton anyway.

Id say mishra is a bigger wicket than people think, Remember his 84 in 2012 as night watchmen, he's done is before so no reason to doubt it will happen again! new man in in the morning can only be a good thing!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 11, 2016, 12:16:58 PM
do think the day is even

England haven't let india get away with it and chipped in with some wickets

but india will be content having lost only 3 recognised batsmen all day
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 11, 2016, 01:42:44 PM
not sure I would say Mishra is a big wicket?

but agreed, Rahane and Kohli the key. as I am not too sure that Ashwin and Saha will pose much of a threat with the bat?
Ashwin has 4 hundreds, he's a proper all rounder. Saha is averaging 50 odd with the bat 2016 so he's pretty decent as well.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 11, 2016, 01:44:15 PM
With the batsmen remaining there some be more chances of taking 3/4 wickets quickly. Rahane, Ashwin, Saha and Jadeja are all attacking players.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 11, 2016, 02:07:10 PM
With the batsmen remaining there some be more chances of taking 3/4 wickets quickly. Rahane, Ashwin, Saha and Jadeja are all attacking players.

The pitch is definitely starting to help the bowlers more. My concern is that cook will go all defensive like he has been with Rashid for most of his overs (in the last 3 matches for defo) and Kohli etc will just accumulate 1/2's and the occasional boundary till they end up about 80-100 ahead and then with the pitch being helpful to the bowlers we may just lose the plot and end up losing.
For me cook needs to attack more with our spinners and look to take wickets ASAP before they get to close to out total.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on November 11, 2016, 07:06:48 PM
Even though i feel there is not going to be a result in this test match, it will still be an interesting phase. How Cook operates will be important to see. On one hand he wants to attack and take wickets to gain any psychological advantage and on the other hand be defensive and risk another couple of 100s being scored by Indians and gain confidence. Latter is more likely to happen which will not be good for England's confidence and rest of the series.
I would say India is little bit ahead in the sense they can easily come close to England's first innings score. Kohli, Rahane, Ashwin, Saha are all in good form and capable of scoring some big runs and Jadeja can get some quick 20-30.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 11, 2016, 07:51:04 PM
England are on the one hand slightly ahead, in that they have the runs on the board and Kohli's dismissal would really swing things. But... If someone were to win this, it's going to be India. It's just impossible to see how there is time left in the game for England to bowl India out twice and put a big enough lead on the board in between...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: GoodLeave on November 11, 2016, 08:35:36 PM
Can't believe we're disappointed with a (Probable) draw, when we've spent most of the last 4 weeks expecting India to have our pants down.

Only England fans!  :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 11, 2016, 08:46:31 PM
Not disappointed at all. It's been an interesting test this far
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 11, 2016, 09:05:36 PM
I think we have played great. !!

Good to see the spinners bowling well. We got runs on the board and have taken some good catches.

Ansari better than I thought and for a left arm spinner and decent bat might be the answer to a few problems?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 11, 2016, 09:27:07 PM
The real revelation with rashid, who bowled much more like he does for Yorkshire today, passing way more questions than any of the other bowlers. Still like him to a few mph quicker but, on that deck against good players of spin, quality.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 11, 2016, 09:45:59 PM
Cook's bowling changes left a little to be desired today. Rashid probably with his best sustained effort in white clothing, should've bowled a lot more.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 12, 2016, 04:44:15 AM
Rahane looked like a tailender with that judgement of length. Bit of pressure on Ashwin to justify that all-rounder tag here
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 12, 2016, 04:53:22 AM
hahaha what a way to go, Kohli trod on his stumps  :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 12, 2016, 08:18:53 AM
Oh dear cook! What an easy drop...luckily its number 11

England have done well to knock India over today and still have a lead. Pretty pointless trying to set up a lead and go for the win. Probably better to bat out the remaining day and a half- get some batting practice and keep India in the field as long as possible
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Northern monkey on November 12, 2016, 08:43:05 AM
Great innings from ashwin
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 12, 2016, 08:59:08 AM
Could be the making of Rashid as a test cricketer this tour. If he has a good tour and, as others have said, finally bowls more like we see him bowl for Yorkshire and if Moeen continues to bat well at 5, is there a case for simply swapping Ansari for Anderson and going into next summer with 4 seamers and Mo and Rashid sharing the spin duties? Or do we think Rashid will lose his place to Ball or Finn?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 12, 2016, 09:10:20 AM
After that first over from jadeja, they should get Ashwin on. All of a sudden it seems to be doing a bit
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 12, 2016, 09:26:08 AM
Massive six from hameed!!


Better attacking opener than hales ever was.......
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 12, 2016, 09:34:33 AM
Beautiful cover drive off Ashwin as well. Love the kid
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 12, 2016, 09:59:45 AM
Good start really like hameed we must let him settle in to opening you can see he's a natural temperament for it and text book defence.

Excellent bowling from Rashid today will do him a lot of good....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: dcullen8 on November 12, 2016, 10:12:01 AM
Is it too early to be dreaming about this partnership for a few years to come?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 12, 2016, 10:19:43 AM
No...we leave him in come hell or high water.
England have coaches to help should he need advice.
Got to work with him to improve his game, temperament and technique he has already.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 12, 2016, 10:30:30 AM
Optimisms from me here.

But

Surely this is near the side for a while now?

Off the top seven, I'd say only duckett to prove himself.


And when we get home, barring injuries our seam attack will be Anderson broad woakes and stokes.

Which means we have a interesting choice in the last spot (number 8 or 9 dependant.

Do we go extra spinner in England. Ansari or Rashid?
Do we go extra seamer to make 5? Wood, plunkett, ball etc.

Or do we say 4 seamers and Ali is enough, and put an extra batsmen in after bairstow? Buttler, billings, Roy? An attacking number 8?
Couple Ben see hales back as a lownorder attacking player.......
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 12, 2016, 10:58:45 AM
I was wrong - I thought that it may be a little too much to ask for Hameed to be thrown into the Indian Tests straight away, but he actually looks very comfortable!
I suspect that Hales is watching this knowing that his days as a Test opener are pretty much over!
Fingers crossed that Hameed is now given a long, long run and can establish himself as Cook's partner!

We just need Duckett to stand up and solve the No4 spot now
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: lexx on November 12, 2016, 11:02:29 AM
Brilliant innings by hameed. Looks solid and plays the drive very well.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 12, 2016, 11:09:24 AM
Opening partnership of 100 up. So sacred...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 12, 2016, 11:15:01 AM
Opening partnership of 100 up. So sacred...

First 100 opening stand since Cook and Duckett vs Bangladesh last month!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 12, 2016, 11:57:29 AM
Optimisms from me here.

But

Surely this is near the side for a while now?

Off the top seven, I'd say only duckett to prove himself.


And when we get home, barring injuries our seam attack will be Anderson broad woakes and stokes.

Which means we have a interesting choice in the last spot (number 8 or 9 dependant.

Do we go extra spinner in England. Ansari or Rashid?
Do we go extra seamer to make 5? Wood, plunkett, ball etc.

Or do we say 4 seamers and Ali is enough, and put an extra batsmen in after bairstow? Buttler, billings, Roy? An attacking number 8?
Couple Ben see hales back as a lownorder attacking player.......
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 12, 2016, 12:09:29 PM
Senior dude. Did you mean to reply to my post? Or just randomly quoting it for no reason?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 12, 2016, 12:25:42 PM
Optimisms from me here.

But

Surely this is near the side for a while now?

Off the top seven, I'd say only duckett to prove himself.


And when we get home, barring injuries our seam attack will be Anderson broad woakes and stokes.

Which means we have a interesting choice in the last spot (number 8 or 9 dependant.

Do we go extra spinner in England. Ansari or Rashid?
Do we go extra seamer to make 5? Wood, plunkett, ball etc.

Or do we say 4 seamers and Ali is enough, and put an extra batsmen in after bairstow? Buttler, billings, Roy? An attacking number 8?
Couple Ben see hales back as a lownorder attacking player.......

This is what I was getting at earlier, if our seamers are high quality (I'd suggest Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes certainly are) do we need 5 seamers or can we take a little pressure off Mo (seeing as he's batting at 5) by having Rashid share the spin duties (helps that he's a very capable lower order batsman too)?

Could be the making of Rashid as a test cricketer this tour. If he has a good tour and, as others have said, finally bowls more like we see him bowl for Yorkshire and if Moeen continues to bat well at 5, is there a case for simply swapping Ansari for Anderson and going into next summer with 4 seamers and Mo and Rashid sharing the spin duties? Or do we think Rashid will lose his place to Ball or Finn?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 12, 2016, 02:23:32 PM
In more English-type wicket conditions I suspect it will more like...

Cook
Hameed
Root
Duckett (if he starts to prove himself!)
Ali
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes
Ball/Rashid/Ansari
Broad
Anderson

Looks as though Hameed is looking like a decent option for opener for a while, and hopefully for good.
Fingers crossed that Duckett starts to perform and cement his place as number 4.
The only other question in my mind is number 9 spot! There are a number of options in my book!
If it is a green top then a 5th pace bowler so Ball would get the nod for me.
If it is likely to be a turner after a couple of days then either Rashid or Ansari could be playing.
The last option could be that if the 4-man pace attack is doing well and the Ali & (part-time) Root are only needed for the odd couple of overs here and there, then how about giving Buttler a game? He could bat at 8 with Woakes moving to 9 and really add absolute carnage if batting with Stokes or Bairstow?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 12, 2016, 02:34:24 PM
My last post is perhaps a question for after the Indian Test series. So maybe the more pressing question is what to do if Jimmy is back bowling?
He is absolutely our premier bower and capable of swinging it both ways in most conditions....plus Anderson has dismissed Kholi more than any other bowler in Tests, so surely that must be enough reason to bowl him!!
So let's assume that the top 7 are  the same (Cook, Hameed, Root, Duckett, Ali, Stokes, Bairstow.). Assuming the wicket for the 2nd Test is spin-friendly and we play 2 spinners (Probably Ansari and Rashid) then that leaves only 2 spot for pace bowlers to join Stokes at 5!
And for those 2 spots we have Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Ball. No offence but Finn isn't looking anywhere near the same bowler he was previously at the moment!
So which 2 get the gig? Would it be worth giving Broad and Woakes a rest and playing Ball and Anderson to see how they do? Or only make one change?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 12, 2016, 02:39:24 PM
People are so fickle! But I might have mentioned this before?  ;)

Personally, I hope playing two spinners becomes the norm again.

A specialist no. 8 bat or a fifth seamer? No, no, no!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 12, 2016, 02:53:32 PM
Can't think why on earth we'd need a fifth seamer, or what use a specialist no8 bat will do! I'd say back in England, if Mo stays at 5 then we keep Rashid in.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 12, 2016, 03:12:37 PM
With Anderson, Broad plus Stokes and Woakes, I can't see why that wouldn't be enough.
But if it is a wicket that is unlikely to take spin well, even in day 4 and 5, then I think there could be a real case for playing Ali and Root as spinners and having Buttler in at 8?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 12, 2016, 03:49:27 PM
With Anderson, Broad plus Stokes and Woakes, I can't see why that wouldn't be enough.
But if it is a wicket that is unlikely to take spin well, even in day 4 and 5, then I think there could be a real case for playing Ali and Root as spinners and having Buttler in at 8?

I'd rather them play a specialist keeper - something they could also do if Bairstow batted in the top five (no. 4, instead of Duckett, for now?)

But Bairstow's keeping seems to have improved somewhat?

People sniggered when I suggested Ali could bat at five.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 12, 2016, 04:27:42 PM
Based on this the current
match Anderson to replace Woakes  also if the experts are correct the second test wicket will spin
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: jamielsn15 on November 12, 2016, 04:58:43 PM
Bairstow has had a record year with the bat. I don't see why you'd change that, especially as his keeping is improving. Buttler hasn't kept in red ball cricket for months,mor longer, and struggled against Nathan lyon. Keep YJB behind the sticks...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: GoodLeave on November 12, 2016, 05:15:09 PM
Based on this the current
match Anderson to replace Woakes  also if the experts are correct the second test wicket will spin

Knew it!  :D

Can't believe we've got too many players. Would Australia like some?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Ams4287 on November 12, 2016, 05:21:15 PM
Based on this the current
match Anderson to replace Woakes  also if the experts are correct the second test wicket will spin

Tough workload with so much cricket prior to Christmas. Can see the same again for the 2nd test then Anderson in for the 3rd rotating with Woakes / Broad. We've just got to an age Stokes's workload! Must admit that the bowling / control has been very impressive - I'd have loved to see a fit and firing Wood available bowling some serious pace (reverse swing). With Ali batting at 5 Rashid can stake a claim for a spot in the long term if he can maintain the control showed over the last couple of days (home and away).

First time I've seen Hamed bat today, and he's 19 years old - really!?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 12, 2016, 06:23:57 PM
Knew it!  :D

Can't believe we've got too many players. Would Australia like some?

Haha!! Whatever we do for the second test we cant drop a seamer because jimmy is just coming back and they wont overwork stokes.

If jimmy comes back woakes might drop out.
 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 12, 2016, 06:43:27 PM
Bairstow has had a record year with the bat. I don't see why you'd change that, especially as his keeping is improving. Buttler hasn't kept in red ball cricket for months,mor longer, and struggled against Nathan lyon. Keep YJB behind the sticks...

I was thinking Ben Foakes more than Jos Buttler. But it's not something I feel strongly about. I find it difficult to criticize anything *cough* 'YJB'.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 12, 2016, 07:10:57 PM
Surprised no one is mentioning ball, bowled well in the Odis and has the pace to trouble
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: dcullen8 on November 12, 2016, 07:22:32 PM
He will likely get a game at some point, hes just not above the other seamers in the pecking order, yet.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 12, 2016, 08:33:10 PM
Without wishing to display too much Surrey favouritism, I'm still hoping Mark Footitt gets a cap at some point. I would be harsh on him to have got so close, and then not. He looked properly rapid at the back end of last season. But he's getting on a bit...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 12, 2016, 08:42:34 PM
The test side is strong now there is quality outside the 11 we have.
Footitt has been unlucky with injuries at his peak..but you could say plunkett also could of played more tests.
If Anderson's career is cut a bit short theres a spot..but England want Wood to be fully fit..not sure he will but hope he does.he has real pace
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 12, 2016, 08:51:02 PM
All these names being mentioned shows the strength and depth England potentially have at their disposal.
Don't look at the names in the side or squad, look at those not on the Tour, it's a healthy position to be in and a lovely problem to have...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 12, 2016, 10:38:49 PM
Various thoughts.

If everyone is fit and available, we seem close to a best all conditions XI:
Hameed
Cook
Root
Duckett
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

That is actually pretty close to a perfectly balanced side - four quicks and a pair of spinners who turn it opposite directions. With the rashid issue, I agree he is not yet a first innings bowler in England, but the ability for any leggie to roll the later order makes it a reasonable idea.

Is there another candidate? We don't need five seamers - ball and Footitt can provide rotation till Jimmy retires. An extra batsman? If you really need a specialist at eight, you have issues....

The bolter in this is Sam Curran. If you have the mother of all middle orders giving you space for a punt, then the kid who gives variety by bowling left arm and can bat at a Rashid/Woakes level might be the point of difference. Just a thought....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 12, 2016, 10:39:45 PM
Auto correct on spectacular form there...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 13, 2016, 05:35:22 AM
Mishra seriously lucky to get Hameed there, that's a no ball surely?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 13, 2016, 07:28:48 AM
Agree completely with that side if not the batting order @Manormanic , this winter was always likely to make or break Moeen and Rashid and thus far they seem to be rising to the challenge. Gives us a perfect balance with Moeen in as a batsman (Bairstow stays at 7 for me), all the bowling covered and proper batsman down to 9. If Curran comes in when Anderson retires we really will have everything covered with a left arm seamer as well!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 13, 2016, 07:39:34 AM
Woakessssssss!!!!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 13, 2016, 07:40:00 AM
DROP CHRIS WOAKES, HE'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 13, 2016, 07:41:10 AM
A quick collapse here should make the game interesting. Gambhir's played his last test match
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 13, 2016, 08:38:53 AM
Thanks for not reviewing that Chet
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 13, 2016, 09:21:12 AM
68-3. Give Hameed a lifetime central contract
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 13, 2016, 09:25:24 AM
England shattering the myth that this current Indian side can play spin well, some of these dismissals have been awful  :D :D :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 13, 2016, 09:39:15 AM
I like rahane, but both wickets in this game from whom have been village!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 13, 2016, 09:55:48 AM
I'm happy to see Moeen coming round the wicket, much more attacking angle.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 13, 2016, 10:01:32 AM
Not impressed with the umpiring from Chris Gaffaney - he is basically giving Ashwin license to kick balls away of the stumps with no intent to play a shot.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 13, 2016, 10:19:46 AM
Rash and moeen two most dangerous looking bowlers here.


So cook has root and ansari on......
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 13, 2016, 10:20:40 AM
And ansari gets a wicket!! Lol
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 13, 2016, 10:21:03 AM
Into the tail lads...ah
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 13, 2016, 10:22:29 AM
India bottling this big time.

Can't wait to see the pitch for the second test now  :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: dcullen8 on November 13, 2016, 10:25:12 AM
Cant believe Woakes hasnt taken a Fifer with his 4 overs. Drop him..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 13, 2016, 10:34:22 AM
YES YES YES! Come on!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 13, 2016, 11:24:07 AM
Thought we did brilliantly and didn't think we'd be capable of outplaying India like that in their own back yard. Top and middle order stepped up with the runs and the spinners were in control for most of it. Shoutout to Hameed who looked exceptional and not out of his depth at any point.

Onto Vizag we go.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 13, 2016, 11:30:20 AM
Kohli's ahead of Tendulkar for my money. Forget runs/averages/hundreds, Kohli's mental toughness saved the day for India, whereas Tendulkar went missing many times when India where in similar situations
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ScottParko on November 13, 2016, 11:34:03 AM
That's a winning draw for England in village terms! Definitely us with the boost going into the 2nd test
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: singapore rookie on November 13, 2016, 11:37:44 AM
with the turn the Vizag pitch offered last one day against NZ, it will be very interesting
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: uknsaunders on November 13, 2016, 02:48:25 PM
As long as we bat first in the remaining games we'll be fine  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Batbuddy99 on November 13, 2016, 03:05:25 PM
Kohli's ahead of Tendulkar for my money. Forget runs/averages/hundreds, Kohli's mental toughness saved the day for India, whereas Tendulkar went missing many times when India where in similar situations
I find myself asking increasingly frequently whether you're always high?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 13, 2016, 03:25:05 PM
Kohli's ahead of Tendulkar for my money. Forget runs/averages/hundreds, Kohli's mental toughness saved the day for India, whereas Tendulkar went missing many times when India where in similar situations

Are you ok??

One is the greatest batsmen of modern times the other is outstanding but not in the same league!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 13, 2016, 11:40:51 PM
Are you ok??

One is the greatest batsmen of modern times the other is outstanding but not in the same league!!
No one is denying Tendulkar's ability, and he's one of the all time greats not just a modern day great. I'm talking about the disparity between Tendulkar's record in the first and second innings of a Test match. And in particularly the fourth innings. He often went missing. Whereas Kohli's fourth innings record is sensational
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 13, 2016, 11:41:55 PM
I find myself asking increasingly frequently whether you're always high?
Perfect clarity in my mind...thanks for your concern...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on November 14, 2016, 10:17:45 AM
I am not sure it is worth bothering to compare Kohli and Sachin.

Let's just accept that Kohli is an exceptional batsman who is also making a decent fist of being skipper.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 14, 2016, 10:28:29 AM
quite right Buzz

Kholi is exceptionally talented, he's also a touch arrogant shown in his post match interviews..England were the only team going to win the 1st test

BUT.......I've no doubt the next wicket will turn big and that's a different challenge for us
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 14, 2016, 10:39:18 AM
quite right Buzz

Kholi is exceptionally talented, he's also a touch arrogant shown in his post match interviews..England were the only team going to win the 1st test

BUT.......I've no doubt the next wicket will turn big and that's a different challenge for us

For my money England's spinners looked better than India's in the first test, I'm not sure a turning wicket would be as big an advantage to India as it might appear. I think a lot of Kohli's success as captain comes from winning a lot of tosses at home, bat first bowl last.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 14, 2016, 11:16:18 AM
best ive seen Rashid bowl for sure.

moeen and Ansari had decent control too....was very unconvinced about Ansari, seen him bowl in a couple of County matches and he was very average...but left arm spin he is doing a job. I think potentially his batting is better than his bowling, he's a classy bat.

But Haseeb settling in was a real plus- he looks the part(so far)

India bully teams at home, I suspect we are about to get a raging turner..but whatever happens they won't be bullying us.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 14, 2016, 11:38:42 AM
I think the first test was an even affair.
You have to remember England had the better of the conditions. And did very well.
But India under scoreboard pressure still batted very well in that first innings.

I think the true tests lay in wait.
I would like to see England win the next toss, on a turning wicket. And then see how the game pans out.
I do feel if its a turner, and India win the toss. England wont be able to win the game.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 14, 2016, 11:51:07 AM
I think the first test was an even affair.
You have to remember England had the better of the conditions. And did very well.
But India under scoreboard pressure still batted very well in that first innings.

I think the true tests lay in wait.
I would like to see England win the next toss, on a turning wicket. And then see how the game pans out.
I do feel if its a turner, and India win the toss. England wont be able to win the game.

Very true.

It's going to be very difficult for England to win if we don't have advantages (the toss) and things go our way.

India need to sort out their openers, Ghambir was just a stop gap I think...the regular guy (raul ?) is fit again.

rahane, kholi,vijay and ashwin are all quality, and Pujara is excellent.

it's def going to get harder for England. We are playing pretty well thou.  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 14, 2016, 11:52:35 AM
On a raging Bunsen, the toss is a huge advantage, one that England, as well as they did here, would struggle to overcome.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 14, 2016, 11:55:30 AM
On a raging Bunsen, the toss is a huge advantage, one that England, as well as they did here, would struggle to overcome.

I think im right the next one is the ground against NZ it went big on day 1. I can't believe we are not going to face exactly the same.


our spinners did bowl well thou.Rashid especially
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 14, 2016, 11:56:30 AM
if englands spinners bowl how they did in the first test even on a turning wicket i thk theyll bowl just as well as indias spinners, and a massive confidence boost for the batsmen was keeping ashwin to 3 for 230 odd (rough figures) for the best in the world id have expected better than that even on a relatively flat wicket first up
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 14, 2016, 11:59:50 AM
I think im right the next one is the ground against NZ it went big on day 1. I can't believe we are not going to face exactly the same.


our spinners did bowl well thou.Rashid especially

yes next game is at Vizag , which is a ragging turner from day 1!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 14, 2016, 12:04:53 PM
Every credit to the groundsman for preparing that wicket. It's a long time since a wicket has been prepared that DIDN'T benefit the winner of the toss.
The pitch had something in it early on then was a good batting wicket for 3 days. A few taken catches (India)  and perhaps some more positive batting (England) on the final morning then there probably would have been a result..

I am sure Indian normality will be back for the 2nd test and whoever wins toss will win within 4 days...
Was impressed with the majority of our bowling although Captain Cook is still too negative at times..

As for the batting.. Stokes continues to show he is a fast learner and this test has to be the 1st test I have seen in 30 years where our batsmen have NOT played spin by lunging the big front foot forward trying to smother/block the majority of an over with their hands and bat miles away from their bodies..


Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 14, 2016, 12:07:11 PM
"I am sure Indian normality will be back for the 2nd test and whoever wins toss will win within 4 days..."

That is the million dollar question. As am not convinced if England win toss, that they will win the game. We will have to wait and see... !
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 14, 2016, 12:11:49 PM
Vizag will definitely turn from ball 1 - in the recent India vs NZ ODI - India bowled NZ out for 79 and Mishra took 5/18 and Patel took 2/9

The toss will be crucial in this one i know our spinners really bowled well and in theory out bowled theirs but the true test will come if we lose the toss on a turner.

With regards India's opener situation (someone mentioned) - Raul is playing domestic cricket at the moment to prove his fitness for the 3rd Test (as India picked their squad for the 1st 2 tests) and scored a very easy 76 in the 1st dig apparently.

What does everyone think we will do with our side - will Jimmy come in? if so for who?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 14, 2016, 12:15:07 PM
Vizag will definitely turn from ball 1 - in the recent India vs NZ ODI - India bowled NZ out for 79 and Mishra took 5/18 and Patel took 2/9

The toss will be crucial in this one i know our spinners really bowled well and in theory out bowled theirs but the true test will come if we lose the toss on a turner.

With regards India's opener situation (someone mentioned) - Raul is playing domestic cricket at the moment to prove his fitness for the 3rd Test (as India picked their squad for the 1st 2 tests) and scored a very easy 76 in the 1st dig apparently.

What does everyone think we will do with our side - will Jimmy come in? if so for who?

right...well we are expecting a Bunsen and we are going to get one  :) we are away....no complaints

I don't think jimmy is going to be risked this game. There's no one really to drop. Butler is on the sidelines no sign of him playing anytime soon.

we don't need anymore spinners in the team, or do we??

I don't think we do...but if we need 4 does Woakes drop out?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 14, 2016, 12:16:45 PM
I think England will keep the same side...


And India possibly may look at 2 changes. Gambhir out for Rahul...

Mishra out for a recognised batsmen, Nair?

As India may back a 4 man attack to do the business on a turning wicket. And look to strengthen batting instead.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 14, 2016, 12:49:11 PM
i actually think both sides will be unchanged.

i don't think England will risk Jimmy..... the only possibility would be if Stokes really is knackered and if he can't bowl then things would need to change.

India is an interesting one though as Gambhir looked really out of nick but Rahul's domestic game doesn't finish till Wednesday so i can't see him playing. As for Mishra i think he will play as the pitch is going to really turn and they trust Ashwin to bat at 6.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 14, 2016, 01:07:25 PM
If its a bunsen burner India will play the extra batsmen. Kohli said the only reason they played 5 bowlers was because the wicket a bit green.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 14, 2016, 01:12:10 PM
Yup, as in all 3 test matches v NZ, due to the turning wickets, india played 4 bowlers only. And Mishra was nowhere to be seen.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 14, 2016, 01:33:52 PM
that would be a big call considering his side have just been hit for 500+ and 250 declared - a realise it will be a harder batting track in Vizag but still an interesting decision
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on November 14, 2016, 01:38:19 PM
What do people think about Ansari? I'm really undecided, I felt he bowled a bit too full and quite floaty and I feel that Batty may provide a little more nous.

However, to contradict myself, I think I'd persevere with him to see if he can winkle batters out as very much our third spinner.

Is Saqlain actually out there working with them? I would have thought someone might have got into his ear about pushing it through a little quicker on that last day?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 14, 2016, 01:51:37 PM
with their right handers he's going away from them which should be harder to play. He's def behind rash and moeen yes but Ansari can bat.

I know we don't need 11 batsmen in the side but it helps we bat deep, we (think) we are about the hit the mother of all turners in the next game, we can't have any sort of tail.

Saqlain has been working with all the bowlers, Rashid gave him a lot of praise in the interviews post match.

If it really is going to spin early then England might think of leaving out a seamer and playing Batty too. that would be 4 twirlies....

but if we leave out a seamer Stokes workload would increase. I don't think they want that to happen.

tricky....

I think we will be unchanged for Thursday.

**to correct that if we leave out a seamer Stokesy's workload could potentially increase***
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 14, 2016, 01:52:54 PM
What do people think about Ansari? I'm really undecided, I felt he bowled a bit too full and quite floaty and I feel that Batty may provide a little more nous.

However, to contradict myself, I think I'd persevere with him to see if he can winkle batters out as very much our third spinner.

Is Saqlain actually out there working with them? I would have thought someone might have got into his ear about pushing it through a little quicker on that last day?

From interviews I have seen/heard, Mushy has really taken a hands on approach since 1st test in Bangladesh. According to a few Rashid has had problems being allowed to set his own fields for both Morgan and Cook.
Gillespie in the big bash and in England put the emphasis on Rashid sorting his own fields out and bowling to them.
Mushy seems to think out spinners are "thinking " to much and haven't been attacking enough. Personally I think it's Mushy is spot on because Rashid under Gillespie was a different animal compared to when he has played for England. I think we saw in the 1st test how Rashid seemed to have more input into what fields he had than in previous 2 years...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 14, 2016, 02:02:52 PM
i quite like Ansari, i just think he is very inexperienced and needs time. I thought he definitely bowled too slowly for that wicket and test cricket in general, but like i said he is still young.... Mo has said a number of times it took him quite a while to actually work out the pace to bowl for test cricket etc...

I also think it was telling that Cook gave him the ball 1st on a couple of occasions before the other spinners so he obviously trusts him.

He gives the spin attack a lot of balance and the Indians are packed with RHB - even more so when Rahul probably replaces Gambhir (next or 3rd test).

As for Saqlain, Mo and Rashid both said in interviews he hasn't worked on anything technical it has been about mind set, being relaxed, what fields to set and when to set them, and most importantly enjoying bowling spin in India.

Which i see as the biggest difference in Rashid he looks so much more relaxed and therefore is able to get through his action more.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 14, 2016, 02:53:10 PM
Whether Moeen and Rashid out bowled Ashwin and Jadeja(Ansari and Mishra were both terrible) is a mute point. Moeen and Rashid had the luxury of bowling with 550 on the board. I don't care how good a batting team you are, you are under pressure. Just look at the bizarre manner in which Rahane got out in both innings(and he's there best player in the last 12-18 months). We saw in Bangladesh in low scoring matches Moeen and Rashid struggled with the expectation to win matches. And both still bowled more than a few pies in the match just concluded. Finally India's spin twins might've been under cooked. IIRC neither played the NZ ODIs. Both bowled plenty in Rajkot so should be in better rhythm in the second Test.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 14, 2016, 03:06:07 PM
Whether Moeen and Rashid out bowled Ashwin and Jadeja(Ansari and Mishra were both terrible) is a mute point. Moeen and Rashid had the luxury of bowling with 550 on the board. I don't care how good a batting team you are, you are under pressure. Just look at the bizarre manner in which Rahane got out in both innings(and he's there best player in the last 12-18 months). We saw in Bangladesh in low scoring matches Moeen and Rashid struggled with the expectation to win matches. And both still bowled more than a few pies in the match just concluded. Finally India's spin twins might've been under cooked. IIRC neither played the NZ ODIs. Both bowled plenty in Rajkot so should be in better rhythm in the second Test.

Any spinner needs runs on the board thou surely Felix?  ashwin and the rest and coming behind a powerhouse batting line up, India don't get rolled for 200 much.

and when we had Swann, a lot of the time we had racked up some pretty big totals thanks to cook,strauss,kp and bell and trott sometimes.


they are not going to be successful trying to bowl defending low scores

Warne and Murali were different, standard test spinners needs runs behind them don't they?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 14, 2016, 03:10:25 PM
Any spinner needs runs on the board thou surely Felix?  ashwin and the rest and coming behind a powerhouse batting line up, India don't get rolled for 200 much.

and when we had Swann, a lot of the time we had racked up some pretty big totals thanks to cook,strauss,kp and bell and trott sometimes.


they are not going to be successful trying to bowl defending low scores

Warne and Murali were different, standard test spinners needs runs behind them don't they?
What I was saying it that Rashid and Moeen's performances shouldn't be expected as the norm. On a raging turner I don't think anyone will score 550 against India. South Africa can't and are plenty decent.

On a square turner the bowlers have to build their own pressure on the batsmen and in Bangladesh the above mentioned couldn't do it
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 14, 2016, 03:31:02 PM
What I was saying it that Rashid and Moeen's performances shouldn't be expected as the norm. On a raging turner I don't think anyone will score 550 against India. South Africa can't and are plenty decent.

On a square turner the bowlers have to build their own pressure on the batsmen and in Bangladesh the above mentioned couldn't do it

Are we talking current SA or the all conquering SA team of 5 years or so ago? I don't think the current SA batting line up (bar Amla and an increasingly injured/disinterested looking AB) is much to write home about to be honest, I don't think either opener, Duminy, Faf or DeKock would get in the current England side, I'm maybe being harsh on young Quintin, probably a better gloveman than YJB but I don't think he's a better test match batter.

EDIT: As Duckett is so green I guess you'd take Faf at 4 over him at this moment in time.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 14, 2016, 03:35:25 PM
Are we talking current SA or the all conquering SA team of 5 years or so ago? I don't think the current SA batting line up (bar Amla and an increasingly injured/disinterested looking AB) is much to write home about to be honest, I don't think either opener, Duminy, Faf or DeKock would get in the current England side, I'm maybe being harsh on young Quintin, probably a better gloveman than YJB but I don't think he's a better test match batter.
De Kock has Bairstow covered rather easily TBH. England have three/four better keepers
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 14, 2016, 03:43:52 PM
De Kock has Bairstow covered rather easily TBH. England have three/four better keepers

You think? Keepers aren't just picked on keeping post-Gilchrist though are they, they have to be keeper/batters and for my money out of all the current test match keepers (all nations), JB is the best batter. I agree that QDK is the better gloveman though and also that if it was white ball cricket I'd probably take DeKock, Sarfraz or Buttler over YJB.

EDIT can't believe I left Dhoni out that white ball list haha
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 14, 2016, 03:57:16 PM
De kock would walk into the England side.

He could easily be keeper batsman and bairstow take the number 5 spot.

Or be a sole batsman at 5!

He's one of the best batsman across all formats at mo and to say he wouldn't get in our side is ridiculous.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on November 14, 2016, 04:05:05 PM
I will be very disappointed if Vizag and future test venues dont produce pitches that suit India. Rajkot was an ODI pitch. Take the home advantage and dont miss the opportunity to win because when India start travelling they will get pitches which dont suit them for sure. Thats the reality!
Even though England spinners gave an impression of being decent which was mainly because of the run deficit and not actual spinning abilities, its also about application. With 500+ on the board, Indian spinners would have ripped through opposition batting for less than 250. They know how to bowl on these pitches. You could be very good in Yorkshire but Yorkshire is not in India.

England should have got Swann as coach/consultant on this series rather have him cover a test series in which England is not even playing. When he toured India, it looked like he knew how to bowl and could pass that knowledge to inexperienced English bowlers.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 14, 2016, 04:08:49 PM
De kock would walk into the England side.

He could easily be keeper batsman and bairstow take the number 5 spot.

Or be a sole batsman at 5!

He's one of the best batsman across all formats at mo and to say he wouldn't get in our side is ridiculous.

QDK is the best overall package keeper out there at the moment.

YJB keeping is improving but it isn't near De Kock's and their batting at the mo is relatively similar.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 14, 2016, 04:27:01 PM
De kock would walk into the England side.

He could easily be keeper batsman and bairstow take the number 5 spot.

Or be a sole batsman at 5!

He's one of the best batsman across all formats at mo and to say he wouldn't get in our side is ridiculous.

I'm not knocking him at all, it's obvious how talented he is, I'm just saying that in my opinion at the moment if I could only pick one or the other I'd pick Bairstow to keep wicket and bat at 7 in a Test match, same as I'd pick Mo over Duminy and Cook over either of their current openers.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 14, 2016, 07:50:25 PM
If we were picking a world XI right now, no doubt at all that YJB would have the gloves. He would be close to making it at as a batsman.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 14, 2016, 08:59:18 PM
If we were picking a world XI right now, no doubt at all that YJB would have the gloves. He would be close to making it at as a batsman.
Sarfraz would be first choice TBH. Superb keeper and his street fighter batting style has transformed Pakistan
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 14, 2016, 09:01:13 PM
If we were picking a world XI right now, no doubt at all that YJB would have the gloves. He would be close to making it at as a batsman.

He would although QdC is not far behind this season!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 14, 2016, 10:29:14 PM
Sarfraz would be first choice TBH. Superb keeper and his street fighter batting style has transformed Pakistan

Nope. Just, nope.

Sarfraz is decent. But he makes as many errors with the gloves as YJB but doesn't make the huge runs.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 14, 2016, 10:30:39 PM
He would although QdC is not far behind this season!

De Kick is 100% of the keeper and 80% the batsman. A year, two from now he gets the gloves and Jonny plays s a batsman.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 14, 2016, 10:59:46 PM
De Kock is 100% of the keeper and 80% the batsman. A year, two from now he gets the gloves and Jonny plays s a batsman.

So we are assuming De Kock's batting will improve, while Barstow's keeping will remain stagnant for the next 2 years?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 14, 2016, 11:08:28 PM
So we are assuming De Kock's batting will improve, while Barstow's keeping will remain stagnant for the next 2 years?
De Kock is a lot younger than Bairstow in fairness, plus his batting average is currently 10 points higher, what'll happen if he improves?!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 15, 2016, 06:25:14 AM
So we are assuming De Kock's batting will improve, while Barstow's keeping will remain stagnant for the next 2 years?

No, there will come a time when a) you want both of them in there and b) YJB's knees and back make it imperative that he plays as a specialist batsman.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on November 15, 2016, 10:05:38 AM
De Kock is in my team over Bairstow every day of the week and twice on Sundays
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 15, 2016, 11:50:09 AM
Anyway, back on subject again!!

Evidently they are happy with the way Anderson is bowling in the nets but the team is likely to be unchanged for the 2nd Test.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 15, 2016, 11:56:00 AM
Anyway, back on subject again!!

Evidently they are happy with the way Anderson is bowling in the nets but the team is likely to be unchanged for the 2nd Test.

Phew, yes let's get back on track. I can't read anything saying De Cock without giggling. Yes I know it's not very grown up  :)

right.....unchanged you say, have you got inside information?

how can we leave out someone with 400 test wickets?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 15, 2016, 12:21:38 PM
De Kock?  Ramdin? :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 15, 2016, 12:34:50 PM
Interesting India have added KL Rahul to their squad for the 2nd test he is currently playing domestic cricket with the match ending tomorrow - although his duties have finished really 76 and then 102 in the 2nd innings!

I think Gambhir might be a dead man walking.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 15, 2016, 12:53:30 PM
Interesting India have added KL Rahul to their squad for the 2nd test he is currently playing domestic cricket with the match ending tomorrow - although his duties have finished really 76 and then 102 in the 2nd innings!

I think Gambhir might be a dead man walking.

Rahul is not due to be available until 3rd test. are India panicking?

Gambhir can't play anything short, some of the CBF net bowlers would have him in trouble.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 15, 2016, 12:58:00 PM
Gambhir can't play anything short, some of the CBF net bowlers would have him in trouble.

Whether they meant to or not ;) :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 15, 2016, 01:00:15 PM
haha

it's the head high beamers that cause the problems

any that's just my 'bowling'
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 15, 2016, 01:03:12 PM
Kumble confirmed Rahul will be play but didn't guarantee Gambhir has been axed...maybe Mishra will get jettisoned and India will play an extra batsman
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 15, 2016, 01:04:26 PM
Gahmbir can't play anything short, some of the CBF net bowlers would have him in trouble.

The third umpire might notice everyone bowling off 18 yards when he checked for a no ball though...  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 15, 2016, 01:11:11 PM
Kumble confirmed Rahul will be play but didn't guarantee Gambhir has been axed...maybe Mishra will get jettisoned and India will play an extra batsman
Mishra was pretty average in the first, but sure he cleaned up new Zealand at the same ground last month
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 15, 2016, 01:16:37 PM
Kumble confirmed Rahul will be play but didn't guarantee Gambhir has been axed...maybe Mishra will get jettisoned and India will play an extra batsman

If that did happen whats the order going to be?

Surely if Rahul comes in he has to open? then the next 3 pick themselves really don't they, so that leaves Gambhir batting at 6? You might as well pick someone else to bat at 6 who is more specialist there surely.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 15, 2016, 01:18:45 PM
If that did happen whats the order going to be?

Surely if Rahul comes in he has to open? then the next 3 pick themselves really don't they, so that leaves Gambhir batting at 6? You might as well pick someone else to bat at 6 who is more specialist there surely.
Let's be honest Kumble has probably already dropped Gambhir. If they play an extra batsman it would be someone else
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 15, 2016, 04:27:31 PM
Anyway, back on subject again!!

Evidently they are happy with the way Anderson is bowling in the nets but the team is likely to be unchanged for the 2nd Test.

If Anderson is match ready he should play in place of Woakes as it seems pointless to  include a player who did nothing with the bat and took one wicket in 35 plus overs   and that was the wicket of an out of form Returning  player.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 15, 2016, 04:31:30 PM
If Anderson is match ready he should play in place of Woakes as it seems pointless to  include a player who did nothing with the bat and took one wicket in 35 plus overs   and that was the wicket of an out of form Returning  player.


Zzzzzzzzzz
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tom line on November 15, 2016, 04:41:02 PM
Also went at less than 2 an over didn't he? It's a test match and about creating pressur certainly out of the seamers he bowled the best and created pressure
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 15, 2016, 04:57:11 PM
Also went at less than 2 an over didn't he? It's a test match and about creating pressur certainly out of the seamers he bowled the best and created pressure

totally agree on this
as skipper, u want to be able to have an element of control over proceedings. and woakes certainly did that.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 15, 2016, 05:04:21 PM
Also went at less than 2 an over didn't he? It's a test match and about creating pressur certainly out of the seamers he bowled the best and created pressure
Take your point but
Pressure containment rarely wins 5 day test matches  you need  guys who can get  20 wickets 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 15, 2016, 05:05:30 PM
Woakes hid the ball in the first match. He didn't get an reverse. Anderson bowling 75mph will be more threatening than Woakes bowling 3ft outside off peg
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 15, 2016, 05:09:39 PM
so Anderson back in?  is that view of us lot?  easy this selection business   :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 15, 2016, 05:19:47 PM
so Anderson back in?  is that view of us lot?  easy this selection business   :)
Yes Kohli is his bitch
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 15, 2016, 05:26:36 PM
I would give Anderson until Mohali, at which pont he comes in for Ansari. Then when they go back to the spinners, I might be tempted to give Broad and Woakes one rest each.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 15, 2016, 10:13:07 PM
I read it over someones shoulder on the train home from london today. could have been the standard or another paper? but def said unchanged for england team?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 16, 2016, 07:21:20 AM
Vizag will turn from day one, going to be all about the spinners there. Mohali will have a bit more grass and offer some assistance to the seamers. Let Anderson sit on the sidelines for one more game.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on November 16, 2016, 07:44:39 AM
Seems as if Woakes may have a niggle. Looks as if Anderson will play.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 16, 2016, 08:17:09 AM
Seems as if Woakes may have a niggle. Looks as if Anderson will play.
a convienient niggle to get Jimmy in?......or 'rotation' under a different name..

 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Northern monkey on November 16, 2016, 08:19:56 AM
I was thinking the same thing

I hope Anderson comes out all guns blazing and not just going through the motions
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 16, 2016, 08:33:43 AM
I was thinking the same thing

I hope Anderson comes out all guns blazing and not just going through the motions

let's be honest, it's going to spin, we got 3 spinners they are all going to play. so maybe his workload can be managed in this match.
Jimmy has been brilliant for us I really do hope he get's over this injury 100 per cent

I don't recall ever seeing a more skilful bowler play for us....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 16, 2016, 08:55:46 AM
i really hope Jimmy comes in for Woakes - not because i think Woakes needs to be dropped, i think he bowled brilliantly last test - i think he needs a rest and also it would be good for Jimmy to have a game before Mohali (where it will be more seamer friendly) to get any cobwebs out etc...

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 16, 2016, 08:59:18 AM
But if it is going to spin, what do we need Jimmy for?  With Woakes, he is worth that spot for his batting - well, Jimmy is never going to be honoured in that way.  So, if we want someone to bowl a few overs with the new ball, it makes more sense to pick Ball.  Will give him some valuable experience, protect out most valuable asset and...well, if the pitch is liable to cracking, Ball's height would actually be more suitable.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 16, 2016, 09:06:22 AM
Seems as if Woakes may have a niggle. Looks as if Anderson will play.

I didn't know @Seniorplayer was involved in team selection!  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 16, 2016, 09:24:34 AM
I didn't know @Seniorplayer was involved in team selection!  ;)

That'd be "Woakes has been forcibly retired" surely?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 16, 2016, 10:03:09 AM
let's be honest, it's going to spin, we got 3 spinners they are all going to play. so maybe his workload can be managed in this match.
Jimmy has been brilliant for us I really do hope he get's over this injury 100 per cent

I don't recall ever seeing a more skilful bowler play for us....
In my lifetime Fred Truman
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 16, 2016, 10:05:12 AM
I didn't know @Seniorplayer was involved in team selection!  ;)

Ha ha good one Cam made me smile.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 16, 2016, 01:42:15 PM
If Woakes does have a niggle, then I would rather see Ball in for the 2nd Test.
They need to look after Anderson and want to bring him back for the 3rd Test. So continue with that plan and give Ball a Test - look what happened in Bangladesh...they guy was fantastic!
If Ball gets another 5fer then that will be a great dilemma to have for the 3rd Test!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 16, 2016, 01:47:38 PM
Ha ha good one Cam made me smile.

he's a card that young Cam !!!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 16, 2016, 01:51:18 PM
In my lifetime Fred Truman

I play with a guy from Yorkshire (batley) at my club in London, I once asked him who was our best seam bowler and he said Trueman, and Fred would of told you he was as well !
 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 16, 2016, 03:04:49 PM
I play with a guy from Yorkshire (batley) at my club in London, I once asked him who was our best seam bowler and he said Trueman, and Fred would of told you he was as well !
 :)

Imagine being  be a fly  On the Yorkshire   Dressing room wall listening to Fred Truman Brian Close  Ray Iilingsworth  and Geoff  Boycottt  talking tactics
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 16, 2016, 07:14:30 PM
Anderson fit and good to go and apparently Woakes has a knee niggle so the correct term is 'rested'

Set your alarms for 4am lads.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 16, 2016, 07:35:49 PM
Yep...lets hope the ECB are providing the coin, we need some luck but i have a good feeling about this game
 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 16, 2016, 08:59:19 PM
Yep...lets hope the ECB are providing the coin, we need some luck but i have a good feeling about this game
 :)

Yes it's a win the toss and bat track  batting last will be  difficult
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 16, 2016, 09:11:55 PM
I honestly think the away side automatically should win the toss.

And he's before anyone posts about green seamers in England, yes give the visiting team the toss in England too!!

 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 16, 2016, 09:21:35 PM
I honestly think the away side automatically should win the toss.

And he's before anyone posts about green seamers in England, yes give the visiting team the toss in England too!!

 :)

TEST           CHOICE
1st              Visiting team
2nd             Team that lost the 1st Test
3rd              Team that lost the 2nd Test
etc, etc.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 17, 2016, 04:11:07 AM
B R O A D Y
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 17, 2016, 04:28:36 AM
J I M M Y

22-2, pinch me!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 17, 2016, 05:48:26 AM
Reckon woakes would break this p......... oh
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 17, 2016, 06:33:03 AM
Pitch looks like it's going to turn square by tomorrow. Looks like it's game over unless England have an amazing afternoon session
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 17, 2016, 07:43:27 AM
Oh dear rashid! Can't afford to drop kohli
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 17, 2016, 08:23:52 AM
Looks like we're in for a tonking then
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 17, 2016, 08:46:39 AM
Dog stops play. Could this be more village.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 17, 2016, 08:48:37 AM
Dog stops play. Could this be more village.

Highlight of the days play is a dog defecating on the pitch. I love cricket. :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 17, 2016, 09:29:46 AM
Thought Rashid bowled well in the first game, looks like hes back bowling filth. India have done well to take the spinners on this match.
100s up for both pujara and kohli

Getting desperate when you start appealing for LBW when it comes straight off the middle
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 17, 2016, 09:51:28 AM
OH JIMMY JIMMY!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 17, 2016, 09:51:56 AM
yes Jimmy......

right into the tail now  :(  :D ;) :o
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: uknsaunders on November 17, 2016, 10:13:09 AM
This Kohli worship is getting on my tits. Rashid tosses one up and Kolhi has a big swipe and gets a thick edge and catchable height through point. Could of gone anywhere. All I hear is Kohli played that cleverly,  broke the wrists on it etc etc. Total bs.

Maybe Rashid should keep giving it air and do them in the flight like most normal spinners might when it's not turning much (apart from the one that ripped just now).
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 17, 2016, 10:24:55 AM
This Kohli worship is getting on my tits. Rashid tosses one up and Kolhi has a big swipe and gets a thick edge and catchable height through point. Could of gone anywhere. All I hear is Kohli played that cleverly,  broke the wrists on it etc etc. Total bs.

Maybe Rashid should keep giving it air and do them in the flight like most normal spinners might when it's not turning much (apart from the one that ripped just now).


At last someone agrees with me. Let's be honest.. It's another slow flat track with occasional ball keeping low where if your height is 5ft 1 then it's easy enough to jab ur bat down on it.
He is an excellent player of spin and at times looks majestic but he has an ego where he really thinks he can play the short ball. Against NZ and here against England I would say he has NOT been in control of the majority of short balls.
His record in England and on seaming wickets need to improve dramatically before I would class him as a top test player.
Before the abuse starts.. Lol

He is one of the best one day players I have seen when chasing a total since  GOD. (Neil Harvey Fairbrother) and that Bevan bloke in " canary yellow "

 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on November 17, 2016, 10:27:12 AM
This Kohli worship is getting on my tits. Rashid tosses one up and Kolhi has a big swipe and gets a thick edge and catchable height through point. Could of gone anywhere. All I hear is Kohli played that cleverly,  broke the wrists on it etc etc. Total bs.

Maybe Rashid should keep giving it air and do them in the flight like most normal spinners might when it's not turning much (apart from the one that ripped just now).

I prefer Pujara and Rahane
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 17, 2016, 10:37:41 AM


At last someone agrees with me. Let's be honest.. It's another slow flat track with occasional ball keeping low where if your height is 5ft 1 then it's easy enough to jab ur bat down on it.
He is an excellent player of spin and at times looks majestic but he has an ego where he really thinks he can play the short ball. Against NZ and here against England I would say he has NOT been in control of the majority of short balls.
His record in England and on seaming wickets need to improve dramatically before I would class him as a top test player.
Before the abuse starts.. Lol

He is one of the best one day players I have seen when chasing a total since  GOD. (Neil Harvey Fairbrother) and that Bevan bloke in " canary yellow "

For me you have to completely split Kohli the ODI batsman and Kohli the Test match batsman they don't compare to each other at all.

IMHO - Pujura is their best batter easily
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 17, 2016, 10:43:25 AM
For me you have to completely split Kohli the ODI batsman and Kohli the Test match batsman they don't compare to each other at all.

IMHO - Pujura is their best batter easily

Only seen Pujura in these last 2 home series and he really seems to have a problem with the short ball but the way he plays spin is right up there with vv laxman...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: uknsaunders on November 17, 2016, 10:58:23 AM
For me Kohli is fine on spinning / flat wickets. As soon as you get any movement around off stump he's struggling. I'm sure he'll crack it eventually but he'll struggle in england/nz/sa in particular.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 17, 2016, 11:05:23 AM
About time they take the new ball. The spinners haven't looked a threat at all or kept it tight
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 17, 2016, 11:07:33 AM
For me Kohli is fine on spinning / flat wickets. As soon as you get any movement around off stump he's struggling. I'm sure he'll crack it eventually but he'll struggle in england/nz/sa in particular.

Proved it with the last couple of balls pitching and moving could have been caught
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: dcullen8 on November 17, 2016, 11:14:25 AM
JIMMY
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 17, 2016, 11:15:26 AM
WTF is Rahane doing?

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 17, 2016, 11:17:06 AM
oh wow the new ball worked, go figure!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 17, 2016, 11:17:20 AM
What was rehane thinking three overs left  on day one  playing at  a wide one
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 17, 2016, 11:25:58 AM
oh wow the new ball worked, go figure!

I must admit that for a while I thought Captain Cook was getting better with his fields, bowling options and changes but the last 5 test matches he has had a shocker that TBH have cost us games.
I would still keep him in the team but think it's time to give the captaincy to Stokesy!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 17, 2016, 11:31:16 AM
I always suspected that this is win the toss, 99% win the game.
We will have to be very lucky and bat out of our skins to win on this wicket - it'll only get worse!!

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 17, 2016, 11:41:56 AM
I always suspected that this is win the toss, 99% win the game.
We will have to be very lucky and bat out of our skins to win on this wicket - it'll only get worse!!

Agree entirely Pete..  I expect us to lose but I want to see how close to the 5th day we can get.
Biggest factor for me though is how we play the spin. Hopefully, the lunging forward with bat out well in front of pad and play the dot ball has gone. Using the crease and attempting to take singles if the ball isn't short or full.enough to punish.
Still want to see YJB and Stokesy bat together because Stokesy seems to lose his train of thought and just goes toe to toe with YJB till one of the gets themselves out. Lol
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 17, 2016, 11:43:13 AM
Close of Play Day 1 in 1st Test England were 311/4 so virtually identical as India today - major difference is this pitch sounds like it is going to do a lot more a lot quicker - this is going to be a proper test for our batters
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ajnabi02 on November 17, 2016, 01:02:05 PM
I think Eng will be able to bat decently the first time around but 2nd innings/5th day will be the real test of their progress
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 17, 2016, 01:11:14 PM
Real shame England lost the toss.
Was very keen on wanting to see how the Indians would fare batting last here.
I do definitely feel, England will crumble under the weight of scoreboard pressure. That's my prediction.
Would be happy to be proven wrong though. :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 17, 2016, 01:11:26 PM
The wicket is already showing its verables low bounce high bounce seam and spin  its a  watch the ball and let it come to you  track.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 17, 2016, 01:13:32 PM
I think Eng will be able to bat decently the first time around but 2nd innings/5th day will be the real test of their progress

 :) :)

I think we( BARMY ARMY!!) are going to be right up against it. this wicket will break up rapid.

this is the reason lots of us fans are not expecting miracles from this tour. Yes we played well in the first game where it only turned a bit.

this is going to go sideways very quickly and it's why it's so hard to win in India
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: lethalshrapnel on November 17, 2016, 01:18:43 PM
For me Kohli is fine on spinning / flat wickets. As soon as you get any movement around off stump he's struggling. I'm sure he'll crack it eventually but he'll struggle in england/nz/sa in particular.

What rubbish! Kohli has a fantastic record in both South Africa and New Zealand. Better than Root's in fact. Kohli's away record is actually far better than his home record. Something that he will rectify this home season. Only place he failed big time was those five tests in England.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 17, 2016, 01:29:25 PM
Cook's tactics where poor today. Ansari ahead of Moeen was a howler. Hussain said Kohli's been out to off spinners 20 times. And rather incredibly averages 150 odd against slow left arm...Kohli's money shot is the cover drive and at time Ansari fed it to him.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 17, 2016, 01:58:45 PM
Cook's tactics where poor today. Ansari ahead of Moeen was a howler. Hussain said Kohli's been out to off spinners 20 times. And rather incredibly averages 150 odd against slow left arm...Kohli's money shot is the cover drive and at time Ansari fed it to him.

For me your spot on. Also would have only given Rashid 4/5 overs and if no good turn go back.to your main spinners. Moeen has had success bowling as 1st spinner for last 2 years.. So why the change today? Also Batty over Ansari just because I think it's a lot ask of Ansari in bowling to the top 3/4 on a non turning wicket against 2 of the best players in the world when it comes to.playing spin...
I suppose with Woakes not playing Captain Cook has opted for the better batsman in Ansari...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 17, 2016, 02:00:36 PM
Cook's tactics where poor today. Ansari ahead of Moeen was a howler. Hussain said Kohli's been out to off spinners 20 times. And rather incredibly averages 150 odd against slow left arm...Kohli's money shot is the cover drive and at time Ansari fed it to him.

Yes missed an opportunity against Aswin  who had just come in in the permulmate over by not having a slip preferring a cover fielder
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 17, 2016, 02:06:30 PM
Yes missed an opportunity against Aswin  who had just come in in the permulmate over by not having a slip preferring a cover fielder

Agree, have yet to be convinced by Ashwin as a no.6 the constantly going on the back foot guiding the ball through slip area or jumping forward with a big stride could / should work in India but anywhere else? Not for me...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 17, 2016, 02:06:41 PM
For those who missed the dog https://streamable.com/q01t

Best bit is when he decides to go for a number 1
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 17, 2016, 02:10:12 PM
Agree, have yet to be convinced by Ashwin as a no.6 the constantly going on the back foot guiding the ball through slip area or jumping forward with a big stride could / should work in India but anywhere else? Not for me...
I read on Twitter that Ashwin was an opening batsman before he took up spin. His technique is solid but just more comfortable on the rear foot. And IMO no way should a biffer like Saha bat ahead of Ashwin
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 17, 2016, 02:32:41 PM
I read on Twitter that Ashwin was an opening batsman before he took up spin. His technique is solid but just more comfortable on the rear foot. And IMO no way should a biffer like Saha bat ahead of Ashwin
I have also heard he was an opener but so was Stuart Broad.  I have no idea who could replace Ashwin at 6 and Kohli certainly fancies him in.that position but for me he isn't a 6.. Time will tell of course, if India ever play a 5 match series out of Asia...
The words " rocking horse" and " S##t" spring to mind..n
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 17, 2016, 03:09:24 PM
Just investigating Mr Broad's record in Asia... and its quite awful:

Broad….

India:
filtered   2008-2016   5   7   120.0   26   416   4   1/39   2/134   104.00   3.46   180.0   0   0

Sri lanka:
filtered   2007-2012   2   3   68.0   10   199   3   1/33   2/104   66.33   2.92   136.0   0   0


Its shocking in India… 180 strike rate!

Surprised he "always makes the team"

And no fans are even questioning it?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 17, 2016, 03:16:53 PM
Broad has 20 wickets at 23 in UAE so it's not like he can't bowl in subcontinental conditions(or Middle East if you prefer)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 17, 2016, 03:20:16 PM
I think the conditions in UAE differ from those in Asia.

I am not convinced his suited to Asia wickets. Lets see  if he proves that wrong.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on November 17, 2016, 07:54:24 PM
For me Kohli is fine on spinning / flat wickets. As soon as you get any movement around off stump he's struggling. I'm sure he'll crack it eventually but he'll struggle in england/nz/sa in particular.

Who doesnt struggle? first session of first test , Cook struggled on a flat pitch Indian pitch. Second test aus vs SA, i guess every batter was dancing like a village cricketer. 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Stuey on November 17, 2016, 08:04:58 PM
Just an observation but broad bowls quite open chested and into the pads which makes it easier for batsman to work to leg in Indian conditions. The most successful seam bowlers channel a line outside off stump.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 17, 2016, 09:01:24 PM
Can some please tell Michael blooming Vaughan ansari has played two test matches and Rashid about 8
Default position:blame the spinners, dog has had a dump on the pitch:blame the spinners.

He really gets on my wick, we are going to be in trouble in this match the Indian spinners know the conditions and are good bowlers, we are not as good as them in that dept!
 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 18, 2016, 04:40:14 AM
Cook definitely made the wrong decision last evening by not taking the new ball earlier and attacking. This morning it's not moved at all.

Rashid's drop continues to cost...if kohli gets to 200, it would be his 3rd of the year! Also probably one of the fittest cricketers going around, seen the likes of AB cramp up in Indian conditions but Kohli carries on sprinting those singles.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 18, 2016, 04:51:20 AM
Looks like I jinxed kohli  :D. All part of the plan from stokes - drops ashwin the ball before allowing the single and catches kohli the very next ball
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: dcullen8 on November 18, 2016, 05:13:37 AM
Mo picking uo 3 this morning, the inevitable sign of things to come..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 18, 2016, 07:02:03 AM
Good stuff from stokes!! This score could of been much worse for england
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 18, 2016, 07:06:12 AM
Just investigating Mr Broad's record in Asia... and its quite awful:

Broad….

India:
filtered   2008-2016   5   7   120.0   26   416   4   1/39   2/134   104.00   3.46   180.0   0   0

Sri lanka:
filtered   2007-2012   2   3   68.0   10   199   3   1/33   2/104   66.33   2.92   136.0   0   0


Its shocking in India… 180 strike rate!

Surprised he "always makes the team"

And no fans are even questioning it?


From what I saw yesterday and his fielding is morning, broad doesn't even look remotely fit! Should have played ball or woakes instead.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 18, 2016, 07:16:20 AM
I'll repeat myself from a month ago and reiterate that his winter is going to be a rude awakening for all the people clamouring for Rashid or anyone else to replace Moeen.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 18, 2016, 07:26:06 AM
455 all out I think England will be happy to not let India get to 500 after yesterday

Over to the batsmen!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 18, 2016, 07:45:56 AM
I'll repeat myself from a month ago and reiterate that his winter is going to be a rude awakening for all the people clamouring for Rashid or anyone else to replace Moeen.

though Dilly has clearly been our best spinner in India...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 18, 2016, 07:48:35 AM
Used to love knocking off stump out the ground.

I'd go mental if I snapped it in half! Pace from shami!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 18, 2016, 07:49:17 AM
Wow what a start fromshami! Cook gone
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 18, 2016, 07:53:30 AM
though Dilly has clearly been our best spinner in India...

It's a crappy prediction if I wait for the series to end isn't it?  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 18, 2016, 08:25:45 AM
Used to love knocking off stump out the ground.

I'd go mental if I snapped it in half! Pace from shami!

Poor technique from cook. Going are the ball rather than letting it come to him. He could learn a lot from haseeb.  lol... But true
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 18, 2016, 08:45:01 AM
Without stating the obvious  :)

one of our lads is going to need a big ton and hameed to bat forever
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 18, 2016, 09:04:51 AM
It's a crappy prediction if I wait for the series to end isn't it?  ;)

I was actually kind of agreeing with you.  Rashid has been our best bowler but he doesn't offer the first innings (non sub continent) overs that Ali does, nor has he yet made anything ike the runs to justify consideration as a batting all rounder.

Moeen's place in the team is safe for a long time to come.  Question is, will they play both in a six man four all-rounder attack?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 18, 2016, 09:14:01 AM
Hameed is single handedly going to save test cricket
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on November 18, 2016, 09:16:16 AM
Sold down the river
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 18, 2016, 09:16:39 AM
Ah
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 18, 2016, 09:20:16 AM
I was actually kind of agreeing with you.  Rashid has been our best bowler but he doesn't offer the first innings (non sub continent) overs that Ali does, nor has he yet made anything ike the runs to justify consideration as a batting all rounder.

Moeen's place in the team is safe for a long time to come.  Question is, will they play both in a six man four all-rounder attack?

If Rashid bowls well this winter then I wouldn't mind if they just swap Ansari for Woakes when they travel back to England and leave the rest of the XI as it is. Stokes, Woakes, Broad and Anderson plus two spinners has every option covered but I feel like they'd also drop Rashid and play the extra batsman.

Root seems to be struggling to pick up Jadeja's length right now, could see an LBW with his feet trapped on the crease.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on November 18, 2016, 09:20:36 AM
Very poor from root that they had almost crossed....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 18, 2016, 09:40:39 AM
Duckett showing an issue there with his front leg still well outside leg stump. He needs to work on that or will struggle at test level.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Byo on November 18, 2016, 09:41:05 AM
Massive flaw in Duckett's technique against spin, needs to sort that out or he's not going to get any runs.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 18, 2016, 09:44:53 AM
His technique is fine, he just doesn't want to get his new pads dirty.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 18, 2016, 09:50:07 AM
Duckett needs to get the front leg forward and straight not sidewards in defence as this exposes his off stump also his bat goes with his front leg towards the  legside  rather than coming down straight in line with the ball.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on November 18, 2016, 09:54:08 AM
Poor poor shot from Root there
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: lexx on November 18, 2016, 09:54:22 AM
In trouble now. Root looked like he was trying to get out the last 40 mins and taking others with him. Big trouble now
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 18, 2016, 09:55:19 AM
No need to play like that Joe.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 18, 2016, 09:59:54 AM
It's a good job we still have woakes to come... oh wait..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 18, 2016, 10:02:09 AM
Oh dear England struggling against spin again. Bit different when the pitch actually turns a little unlike the first test.

Anyone else think that Yadav's action looks a tad suspect? Pretty surprised he's not wearing a long sleeve top like all spinners these days
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 18, 2016, 10:04:39 AM
Root didn't look comfortable against the spinners at all and it only became even more obvious once Moeen started batting at the other end. I don't fancy Bairstow against Jadeja so it's all on these two
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 18, 2016, 10:07:02 AM
Jinxed him  :D :(
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 18, 2016, 10:08:54 AM
It's a good job we still have woakes to come... oh wait..

ive no doubt Woakes is as fit as a butchers dog, or at least the dog that was on the pitch yesterday

and Broad don't look fit....

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 18, 2016, 10:09:39 AM
5 down with an hour's play to go, suspect another 2 wickets before close of play. Don't see stokes lasting too long
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: liscon12 on November 18, 2016, 10:24:28 AM
Oh I do love a good England collapse, the world wouldn't be the same without one  :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 18, 2016, 10:47:49 AM
8 off 44

This is what test match cricket is all about
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 18, 2016, 10:53:09 AM
we have gone here big time

it all started with a run-out too-totally unneccesary

funny how the game goes like that to bite you in the gonads.

give away a wicket and the cricket gods punish you

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on November 18, 2016, 11:02:54 AM
Such joy  :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 18, 2016, 11:06:03 AM
consolation for those whose glass is half full in life

'we are not as bad as Australia'

 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 18, 2016, 11:08:12 AM
consolation for those whose glass is half full in life

'we are not as bad as Australia'

 :)

That's right we can can play the moving ball
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 18, 2016, 11:12:16 AM
close of play...phew!!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 18, 2016, 11:20:44 AM
With the way the wicket is deteriorating I can see England following on.
I predict that the top order will manage to apply themselves a little better but still can't see them reaching the Indian total!
This is the wicket I would have liked to have seen England bat first, as I was interested in seeing how India would bat on a deteriorating wicket but it was not to be!

Shame Hameed got run out! And Duckett doesn't sound as though he is having a great time in these conditions even though people seemed to think that he could thrive in spinning conditions? From what I have seen of Duckett, he doesn't seem to like playing defensively?
So do the selectors show patience for Duckett even though his defensive technique in these conditions seems to looks a tad suspect, and give Buttler a game or two?
Or do they continue to stick by Duckett and give him several more Tests?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 18, 2016, 11:28:21 AM
Give duckett more games but have a strong word with him,

I think although this has been a collapse yes, the fact everyone was saying 5-0 and this will happen in every game why are we all shocked?

The joy of England they have these every so often and so seem to learn for the rest of the series! India might win this game but I don't think the rest of the series will be as bad!! Or at least I hope not anyway
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 18, 2016, 11:35:14 AM
@petehosk Dropping Duckett because he doesn't like defending and bringing in Buttler (the most aggressive batsman in the squad) seems a bit back to front haha :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 18, 2016, 11:38:26 AM
@petehosk Dropping Duckett because he doesn't like defending and bringing in Buttler (the most aggressive batsman in the squad) seems a bit back to front haha :D

I am not suggesting this - I am just putting the discussion out there.
And Buttler has get quite a decent defensive game in most conditions - I have seen Buttler defend for long periods before going on the attack.
So What I am asking is a legit question.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 18, 2016, 11:42:20 AM
we are on a Bunsen in away conditions, this was always going to be tough, we are going to have to battle, as long as we try to do that it's fine-show some fight like Stokes does......

Duckett has to learn, this is as hard as it gets, the lad has talent.

he stays leg side of the ball, as a lot do who excel in one dayers(hales was the same)

if you look at hameed he has a slightly open stance but is more side on. Hameed steps into the shot, Duckett remains leg side of the ball, so you can see more of the stumps

we have coaches they need to help him
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 18, 2016, 11:50:11 AM
I am not suggesting this - I am just putting the discussion out there.
And Buttler has get quite a decent defensive game in most conditions - I have seen Buttler defend for long periods before going on the attack.
So What I am asking is a legit question.

I'm just teasing Pete, not having a go mate :) Personally I think we should persevere with Duckett for a good while, the lad's got bags of talent
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 18, 2016, 11:52:08 AM
i worry about Duckett.... it is ok saying give the lad time, he has talent etc.... but that way to bat is completely insane against big turning off spin - especially Ashwin who has the straight one as well so he has no clue how much it's turning, he leaves himself only a few shot options etc...

as he has tried batting like that since he arrived in Bangladesh i wonder what the coaches are doing with him in the nets, because it clearly isn't working.

also i don't think India would make us follow on (if/when they get the chance). There's still 3 days left.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 18, 2016, 11:52:31 AM
I'm just teasing Pete, not having a go mate :) Personally I think we should persevere with Duckett for a good while, the lad's got bags of talent

He has indeed..

ramprakash needs to get busy working with him. we have good coaches sometimes they are needed.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 18, 2016, 12:06:20 PM
also i don't think India would make us follow on (if/when they get the chance). There's still 3 days left.

Was thinking the same - would indicate how brave he is! You wouldn't want to bat on day 5 on this wicket if it's already started to go on day 2!!
But would Kholi play safe and bat for a day to put on a bigger total?


I'm just teasing Pete, not having a go mate :) Personally I think we should persevere with Duckett for a good while, the lad's got bags of talent

I am not against Duckett either - I also think he has bags of talent but not convinced that his game is ideal for this wicket. And as I said, I do think that Buttler has a half-decent defensive game and would bat better in the circumstances! The fact that Duckett did not seem to change his game at all, even though the circumstances dictated that he should have reigned his batting in a little  is a little concerning. This indicates that he is not a thinking cricketer?
My view is that Duckett should be given more time and coached! As people have said, the talent is there but it needs to be nurtured!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 18, 2016, 12:10:42 PM
The wicket has not deteriorated that much Englands batsmen didn't apply themselves
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 18, 2016, 01:53:20 PM
I think we need an extra right handed batsman in the line up. If India are now going to play two off spinners then we can't allow Ashwin to line up so many lefties. Bairstow at 4 with Buttler at 7 with the gloves.

That said India's debutant was pretty impressive. Pretty handy with the bat, looked sharp in the field and typically decent the ball. Shame the top order crumbled otherwise he could've targetted him and see what his tickers like.

Lucky Stokes is still there, anyone who missed it ball hit his stumps but the bails didn't dislodge, he's the form player and if he goes beast mode he could yet pull us out of a hole.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mr_Orange on November 18, 2016, 02:00:15 PM
I am not against Duckett either - I also think he has bags of talent but not convinced that his game is ideal for this wicket. And as I said, I do think that Buttler has a half-decent defensive game and would bat better in the circumstances! The fact that Duckett did not seem to change his game at all, even though the circumstances dictated that he should have reigned his batting in a little  is a little concerning. This indicates that he is not a thinking cricketer?
My view is that Duckett should be given more time and coached! As people have said, the talent is there but it needs to be nurtured!

I haven't seen it yet, but Michael Vaughan on TMS was saying that he could see Duckett was starting to get his feet in line with the stumps more and it was only when Ashwin/Kohli had a leg slip in that he went back to giving himself room because he was conscious of the slip and getting too far across. Good bowling and messing with his head.
Seems like he's taking in the coaching and it's happening, but yes he needs time to let these technical changes bed in. Difficult when there is so little time between games and the back up batsmen may not be up to scratch.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on November 18, 2016, 02:08:15 PM
The wicket has not deteriorated that much Englands batsmen didn't apply themselves

Agreed, bounce has been a little variable at times but it's not a minefield by any stretch of the imagination. It's just been poor batting, and running, that has put England into this position.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on November 18, 2016, 05:36:18 PM
Me likey!!!!  :D :D

Seeing the first inning, i guess Root is the only wicket India will have to target, rest will fall automatically.
Poor temperament, could be result of limited overs cricket.
This you would never see from KW or VK.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 18, 2016, 11:42:25 PM
we are on a Bunsen in away conditions, this was always going to be tough, we are going to have to battle, as long as we try to do that it's fine-show some fight like Stokes does......

Certainly not a bunsen, pitch is turning a little and staying low. They could have prepared a far worse pitch given what they've produced recently and what was seen in Bangladesh
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 19, 2016, 06:49:51 AM
You're right the pitch has not really gone yet, England gave away some wickets yesterday and are batting with more application so far today
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: billyb on November 19, 2016, 07:04:39 AM
I'm starting to think that a draw is unlikely... but not impossible.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 19, 2016, 07:19:12 AM
Its unlikely england will not lose any more wickets by the close but we can hang on -oh stokes gone!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 19, 2016, 07:20:15 AM
England have applied themselves a lot better this morning. Still a long way off from india's score but the pitch doesn't appear to be that bad

Broad looks like he's going to miss the 3rd test. Woakes probably gets recalled after being "rested"

Is the only backup batsman ballance? I wouldn't play duckett or ballance. Need a right handed batsmen at 4
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: singapore rookie on November 19, 2016, 07:27:53 AM
The Ben Stokes dismissal, if there was an inside edge then he was caught. Don't understand why the 3rd umpire was checking for the inside edge?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 19, 2016, 07:35:12 AM
I think he hit it so out anyway, not sure why but the right decision either way
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 19, 2016, 07:36:45 AM
England have applied themselves a lot better this morning. Still a long way off from india's score but the pitch doesn't appear to be that bad

Broad looks like he's going to miss the 3rd test. Woakes probably gets recalled after being "rested"

Is the only backup batsman ballance? I wouldn't play duckett or ballance. Need a right handed batsmen at 4

No if mohali is more seamer friendly one less spinner and butler in as a batsman maybe
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Northern monkey on November 19, 2016, 08:03:07 AM
I reckon buttlers gonna get a game.

We need to bat well second innings
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 19, 2016, 08:07:58 AM
Another poor decision from kumar! Seems to be a minimum of 2 per innings.

Poor broad...his face when there are no reviews left! Priceless

All out, another 5 wicket haul from ashwin. He's bowled really well
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 19, 2016, 08:11:11 AM
No if mohali is more seamer friendly one less spinner and butler in as a batsman maybe

Would definitely drop ansari and duckett and get buttler and woakes back
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 19, 2016, 08:22:31 AM
Would definitely drop ansari and duckett and get buttler and woakes back

Woakes will be back anyway Broad has a foot injury. He made way for Jimmy clearly but it lols like we 'rotated' the wrong player  :)

You can't predict who will pick up an injury thou realistically. Ansari is the third spinner so it we don't need 3 next game prob will drop out. that's if Mohali does not spin as much as expected.

I also think the team looks stronger with Woakes in it, I'm a fan of his all round contribution.

I do think butler will play next game.

Tricky thing is if it spins do we pick another spinner because it's spinning or pick the better bowler regardless?

Woakes is a better bowler than ansari and better batsman.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on November 19, 2016, 08:44:18 AM
Batty should be playing.

Anyway.

We're DOOOOOOMED I TELL YOU DOOMED.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 19, 2016, 09:16:33 AM
Some poor umpiring again
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 19, 2016, 09:23:17 AM
Rod tucker has forgot his hearing aid this session.....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 19, 2016, 09:28:16 AM
Not bad for a bowler who's injured. Nip one of these 2 and a chance at knocking them over cheaply. Then again a 200 run lead helps a little
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on November 19, 2016, 09:31:31 AM
Was drs only on trial with a review after 2 tests or for the full series?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 19, 2016, 09:53:20 AM
That is class from Jimmy. Absolute class
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wayward_hayward on November 19, 2016, 09:54:33 AM
Jimmy hasn't lost it
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 19, 2016, 10:37:44 AM
Brilliant bowling from Jimmy to get that ball  toy come back in between Purjanas bat and pad
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 19, 2016, 10:54:06 AM
Kohli's making it look far far too easy right now
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 19, 2016, 10:54:53 AM
Kohli is pretty class at the mo!

Not that we are gonna win this, but I doubt we will win anything if we do t come up with a plan for him.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 19, 2016, 12:24:36 PM
England have applied themselves a lot better this morning. Still a long way off from india's score but the pitch doesn't appear to be that bad

Broad looks like he's going to miss the 3rd test. Woakes probably gets recalled after being "rested"

Is the only backup batsman ballance? I wouldn't play duckett or ballance. Need a right handed batsmen at 4

Broad playing in the next test is dependant on what  his scans  sent to the UK reveal.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 19, 2016, 12:27:28 PM
Broad playing in the next test is dependant on what  his scans  sent to the UK reveal.

Form the ecb

Quote
Stuart Broad has strained a tendon & one of the small joints in his right foot. He'll continue to bowl & be assessed after the Test #INDvENG[\quote]
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 19, 2016, 12:40:12 PM
You can't predict who will pick up an injury thou realistically. Ansari is the third spinner so it we don't need 3 next game prob will drop out. that's if Mohali does not spin as much as expected.

Tricky thing is if it spins do we pick another spinner because it's spinning or pick the better bowler regardless?

I'd say Woakes for Broad.  Buttler comes in as a different batting option - only question being whether we need four seamers, in which case Duckett goes, Ball comes in and Bairstow bats five, or whether we go:

Cook
Hameed
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Duckett
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Anderson

With a fight on for the gloves.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 19, 2016, 01:51:55 PM
 rasid bowled well this morning he has certianly improved  based on the predicted  3rd test pitch If Broad is fit  ansari out right hander Buttler in.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 19, 2016, 10:49:08 PM
Kohli is some player, like he was batting on a flat one in Bangalore rather than the heavily worn pitch in Vizag. Pujara's record looks impressive but his technique isn't anything special if you as me. A top order player who's been out bowled 24% of the time is poor and shows why he doesn't score runs outside Asia.

Broad and Anderson where outstanding but after that it was a non event.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on November 19, 2016, 11:26:04 PM
Have to agree with a lot of the comments and looks like we will need to fight back from one test down. Hopefully they stick with Duckett and he and Ramprakash as batting coach sort this technique of playing with just the bat to spin and leg out the way, never going to work.
Hope Ansari stays in the side, just a player a like watching and think he is a class young player, he won't get much test cricket in England this summer as we will only play Ali as a spinner
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on November 20, 2016, 01:54:20 AM
Rumour has it Bayliss, Broad and Anderson were seen at the local markets buying up on Mithai  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 20, 2016, 07:41:47 AM
Bat out the overs and England win..simple right ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 20, 2016, 07:44:47 AM
Bit quiet on here. Where's @rickjames ?? Did you stay in bed.


So India set us 400, broad and Rashid with 4 fors. Only just got up so can't really say what the circumstances was(good bowling or slogging for target)


Kohli with 81, he's the big difference this test! May have been a lot closer affair had he been caught at fine leg on day 1!


I still say we will lose, but will be very happy if we can put 200 plus on 4thh innings and take it well into day 5.
If we push the Indians we can take some confidence into test 3
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: 19reading87 on November 20, 2016, 07:47:56 AM
I'm thankful to Kohli for not enforcing the follow on the make us lose by an innings!! Obviously I'd love us to win! But Batting 4th on this pitch won't be easy!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 20, 2016, 07:48:04 AM
Bat out the overs and England win..simple right ;)

At hameeds strike rate of 20, we could end up drawing at end of day 5 and he still won't be on hundred!

AND I'D BE MORE THAN HAPPY WITH THAT! Dignin boy.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: 19reading87 on November 20, 2016, 07:50:43 AM
At hameeds strike rate of 20, we could end up drawing at end of day 5 and he still won't be on hundred!

AND I'D BE MORE THAN HAPPY WITH THAT! Dignin boy.

Baby Boycs
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 20, 2016, 07:55:32 AM
A blockathon from baby boycs please 'all day long'
 :)
And tommorow
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Vulcan Cricket on November 20, 2016, 08:07:59 AM
Bat for the win frist and if we can't then the draw
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 20, 2016, 08:10:05 AM
Bat for the win frist and if we can't then the draw

Rest off team can bat round him. Currently Hammeed and cook just need to keep India in the field. 400 isn't a target regularly achieved.
So be a bit gung ho to just think "lets go boys, this will be easy"
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 20, 2016, 08:58:21 AM
I would say that 6 or 7 batsmen would have to play out of their skin to get close to 400 on a deteriorating wicket.
So 455, 255 and then 204? 4th innings on this wicket should be 150-180.
Therefore a score of 230+ would at least be a moral victory.

I still would have liked to have seen how the scores woud have gone had England won the toss and batted first.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 20, 2016, 09:14:57 AM
It really is a remarkable effort from our bowlers to get us back with at least a chance of something out of this match.

Rashid continues to improve and has bowled really well with broad and Anderson.

I do think we are a better side with Woakes in it, I know that's a bit controversial on here  :)

Would expect him back in for broad next match and then it's whether we need 3 spinners or 2....if it's 2 Butler maybe low down or perhaps Ball.....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 20, 2016, 09:20:12 AM
This is some proper test cricket from the openers here
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: 19reading87 on November 20, 2016, 09:23:08 AM
Touch wood I don't curse him, but if Baby Boycs batted for 10 + hours undefeated he could go on to become an England great
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on November 20, 2016, 09:25:48 AM
Hameed has really gone exgavating here! Most of our players now wouldn't have survived bstting like this
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 20, 2016, 09:29:16 AM
100 up for hameed!!!! (balls faced). Dig in my son. Dig in!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on November 20, 2016, 09:34:16 AM
100 up for both openers! Proper cricket this!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 20, 2016, 09:41:37 AM
I can't believe there will be anyone left who can't see this is the way to go in tests with Hameed

Whatever happens technically he is equipped to cope with opening. There's enough strokeplayer behind to  play attacking cricket in any Country we play in.

Come on son show that gray Nichols full face.

Looks a nice bat actually  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: lexx on November 20, 2016, 10:01:05 AM
Brilliant test match cricket this. Loving every ball
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 20, 2016, 10:21:04 AM
DRS not popular with India here...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on November 20, 2016, 10:25:55 AM
Must be frustrating as technically both were out.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 20, 2016, 10:25:59 AM
Everyone on twitter saying drs will now be scrapped again in India after those 6balls.

It's not like they were over turned! They were given not out on field and stayed that way. Would have been same with or without drs.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 20, 2016, 10:30:40 AM
Cricket eh!!

You bat so well for so long and then get a dirty grubber off a ball.


He may have only scored 25, but he did well. Well batted hameed! Superstar in the making.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 20, 2016, 10:31:06 AM
1 down, decent grit from the youngster.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: lexx on November 20, 2016, 10:36:44 AM
Well batted and unlucky.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 20, 2016, 10:37:16 AM
Decent effort from Hammeed  England have found themselves a proper opener  ball kept low but bat was turned to leg rather than straight a straight bat would have saved him.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 20, 2016, 10:37:51 AM
Harsh to blame the kid for that!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: JB on November 20, 2016, 10:49:27 AM
There's nothing worse than getting out to a ball like that. Excellent mental toughness shown from Hameed, he looks the part!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 20, 2016, 10:50:00 AM
Batted Chef. Dig in.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 20, 2016, 10:50:42 AM
Love that Ansari is being spoken of as a possible night watchman. That'd be some comedown.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 20, 2016, 10:53:50 AM
Have these umpires got no light meters ?  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 20, 2016, 11:04:01 AM
Massive wicket before close
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 20, 2016, 11:16:20 AM
Yeah that's a big blow it's been a great effort.

I dunno how Duckett is going to play in the morning but he must try to be positive, sitting and waiting will not work for him
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 20, 2016, 11:17:02 AM
There's nothing worse than getting out to a ball like that. Excellent mental toughness shown from Hameed, he looks the part!

Hameeds had an unlucky match when  batting but with the mental toughness he has shown it won't effect him.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on November 20, 2016, 12:52:24 PM
Love that Ansari is being spoken of as a possible night watchman. That'd be some comedown.

Coming in in the top for would be appropriate for his batting talent, night watchman or not
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on November 20, 2016, 01:00:01 PM
Love that Ansari is being spoken of as a possible night watchman. That'd be some comedown.

Whatever floats your boat
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 20, 2016, 02:09:26 PM
2 thing so read on twitter.

First, of the 6 longest(balls faced) opening partnerships in India for England. Cook and hammed feature twice.
Today is 6th and raijkot(352 balls) is the longest!


Second, someone commented on the way India celebrated hameeds wicket, they celebrated in a way that it'll it was a big big break through.
Something not seen when the likes of hales, Robson, lyth etc were gotten out.

Hameed matters and India know this!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 20, 2016, 02:29:42 PM
As a outsider, hameed has done well so far but he seems to have a problem with the short ball. Heard he was troubled in one of the warm up games in Bangladesh and already he's got hit a few times.
Don't want to get a reputation of struggling against the short ball
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ElPerro on November 20, 2016, 03:40:04 PM
Yeah that's a big blow it's been a great effort.

I dunno how Duckett is going to play in the morning but he must try to be positive, sitting and waiting will not work for him

"If in doubt reverse sweep" - his words not mine
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 20, 2016, 03:53:47 PM
"If in doubt reverse sweep" - his words not mine


(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/Screen%20Shot%202016-11-20%20at%2015.49.50_zpsfowktyof.png) (http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/CPye061194/media/Screen%20Shot%202016-11-20%20at%2015.49.50_zpsfowktyof.png.html)

Some of the replies are interesting
https://twitter.com/BenDuckett1/status/793019387837939713 (https://twitter.com/BenDuckett1/status/793019387837939713)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 20, 2016, 03:55:40 PM
This is going to be very tricky for him tommorow. At the moment there are holes in his technique, scoring runs fluently is his best form of defence.

But if he is out playing aggressive it will bring opinions from  all round. That's where you need a strong mind.
You have to be true to yourself.

The way Stokes has played on the two tours (superbly) mixing defence and attack maybe is the way to copy.

Stokes by all accounts has put serious work into staying out there to begin with.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 20, 2016, 04:15:19 PM
Coming in in the top for would be appropriate for his batting talent, night watchman or not

I agree, he is certainly better than your average nightwatchman.  I would have said - based on what I have seen in county cricket - that he is a batsman who turns his arm over rather than a frontline bowler who can hold a bat. 

@Buzz I'd be interested to hear - regardless of the merits of selecting him as a bowler - where you'd bat him in the current England set up (with Woakes in the side).
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 20, 2016, 04:15:56 PM
Whatever floats your boat

Ah c'mon, you have to love daft suggestions on commenttary!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 20, 2016, 04:17:10 PM
This is going to be very tricky for him tommorow. At the moment there are holes in his technique, scoring runs fluently is his best form of defence.

Makes you long for the olden days, when a young batsman would start off at six or seven to get used to the international game...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 20, 2016, 04:43:02 PM
Indeed that's exact how it was even for openers in county cricket coming into the team.

The modern game is different now thou the way in is thru one dayers and the Lions.

I hope we stick with Duckett all tour. Yes there is a problem with his defence(look at hameed 's stance today on Sky,(you can see pretty much off stump only).

We have coaches, Thorpe and ramprakash are there, they are the ones now who can improve him.

From what I have read about Duckett, he always had the talent and didn't dedicate himself to it liike he should of, then he clicked and changed his thinking, so he has put the work in previously...

We can't keep changing. Taylor(very unlucky) Vince, Compton, Ballance....

If Duckett does get dropped you gotta ask where next for a number 4?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 20, 2016, 05:31:34 PM
If Duckett does get dropped you gotta ask where next for a number 4?

There are plenty of potentials, but chopping and changing has to be a well considered process.  At this stage, we have established that Duckett can play quality innins internationally; he did in the Bangladesh one dayers and again in the second test.  We have estalished that he can be dismissed by a quality off spinner on turning pitches. 

If he is not massively affected by it (in which case resting out a game or two could help) then stick with him.  The ability is there, and things should come good.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on November 20, 2016, 05:42:48 PM
Keaton Jennings was very very unlucky not to be with the group..

Not sure the answer is really I have not seen anything in Duckett to suggest a test player is there yet but agree needs a good go in better conditions.

But we need a settled side and need to give people as long as possible.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on November 20, 2016, 07:03:57 PM
I would not change the batting personnel for the third test, just swap Duckett and Bairstow
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on November 20, 2016, 07:04:51 PM
Keaton Jennings was very very unlucky not to be with the group..

Not sure the answer is really I have not seen anything in Duckett to suggest a test player is there yet but agree needs a good go in better conditions.

But we need a settled side and need to give people as long as possible.

There's a spot for him at the top of the Proteas order.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 20, 2016, 07:26:00 PM
The problem no.4 position. Formerly known as the problem no.3 position.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 20, 2016, 07:44:59 PM
To be fair it looks as though most slots are looking quite positive:

1-3 Cook, Hammed, Root

5-7 Ali (+spin) Stokes (A/R) Bairstow (W/K)
8-11 Bowlers - Woakes (Semi A/R) Broad, Anderson, Ball, Woods, Finn (not my pick), Rashid, Ansari, Batty, etc.

If you wanted to be picky, you could argue that we don't have a top class spinner (a la Warne) but Rashid seems to be proving himself well and Ali is pretty ok too.
We have loads of decent options for seam/pace so that's looking rather funky!
So we really need Duckett to step up to the mark and seal the number 4 spot. It could be a sleepless night for him and it is not going to be an easy wicket to bat on.
But a 50 from him tomorrow would start to make a rea case for him. And if he gets out, he had better make sure that it is due to an excellent ball from the bowler and not another very poor shot or technique! 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on November 20, 2016, 07:49:04 PM
Moving past India, the side below gives 4 seamers, 2 spinners and in theory bats down to 9, plus batting in this order mixes the Lefties and the Righties up a bit better -

Cook
Hameed
Root
Duckett
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on November 20, 2016, 07:51:19 PM
However - the imbalance in the 'next off the rank' options for seam against spin are very worrying -

Seam:

Wood
BallOverton
S Curran
T Curran
Roland-Jones
Brooks
+ many,many more


Spin:
Leach
Rayner
Crane

ermm...................
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on November 20, 2016, 08:27:20 PM
I agree, he is certainly better than your average nightwatchman.  I would have said - based on what I have seen in county cricket - that he is a batsman who turns his arm over rather than a frontline bowler who can hold a bat. 

@Buzz I'd be interested to hear - regardless of the merits of selecting him as a bowler - where you'd bat him in the current England set up (with Woakes in the side).
After Woakes! Woakes is a genuine batsman with more experience and runs in the bank.
I was trolling a bit with Ansari really. He needs to bowl a load more and get more runs in the bank before he can bat higher than 8.

Our batting line up is a bizarre mix of duckett, Moeen, Stokes, woakes and Ansari whose natural position is probably number 6 in the order with Rashid a seven. Bairstow should be 4 really, but keeping prohibits that.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 20, 2016, 08:31:00 PM
However - the imbalance in the 'next off the rank' options for seam against spin are very worrying -

Seam:

Wood
BallOverton
S Curran
T Curran
Roland-Jones
Brooks
+ many,many more


Spin:
Leach
Rayner
Crane

ermm...................

Most countries have the same issue - I guess with four quicks to one spinner inmost sides its not that bad of a deal.

As a ...you could name Dom Bess, Stephen Parry, Liam Dawson, Parkinson, Scott Borthwick.  Not stellar but better than Australia or South Africa's options.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 20, 2016, 08:36:40 PM
After Woakes! Woakes is a genuine batsman with more experience and runs in the bank.
I was trolling a bit with Ansari really. He needs to bowl a load more and get more runs in the bank before he can bat higher than 8.

Difficult really - you can't hold against the lad that he wsa selected.  Its not like any reasonable person says "thanks, Mr Whittaker, but I really think you've gone a tad loopy" after all.  Its clear that he is being treated as a bits and pieces player in the side, which gives him no chance to prove anything but gives people ammunition to say he's not up to it.

For all I've dissed the lad, he has some talent/potential.  England are NOT helping him at the moment.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 20, 2016, 09:51:09 PM
Ansari is in a very similar position to Moeen has been batting down the order for a while, whether Ansari can be as important to the team in a years time who knows...

Rashid is bowling much better now Cook has more confidence in him, chicken and egg that, he is bowling well so Cook has confidence to go to him first, then Ali and Ansari last.

If it does seam In Mohali, one spinner will drop out so there is a space..ball maybe or get Butler in...

For now we need everyone to get runs tommorow just to draw. I actually think Ansari will be a batsman who bowls rather than a bowler going forward, we don't play 3 spinners very often.

Everything crossed we get out of this game with a draw, I'd like to see Root rein it in a bit and slow down, he's so fluent he gets carried away.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 20, 2016, 10:39:31 PM
Ansari needs to aim for out batting duckett.

If he can prove he can he might get a shot at the number 4 slot at home.
Or we move everyone up one and he slots it at 7..... or somewhere in between.

He is a batsmen after all. Even though he is coming in after Rashid currently.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 21, 2016, 04:50:06 AM
I've seen a lot of Zafar, and much as I like him, I don't think he will ever play for England as a batsman.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 21, 2016, 05:45:15 AM
Too many LHB, get Buttler in at 6(on the presumption that Bairstow will retain the gloves) and get Woakes back in at 8. Duckett and Ansari obviously getting removed
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 21, 2016, 06:01:26 AM
Definately not what I wanted to wake up to.

Having seen duckett made non of 16 balls, a big sweep was no what I was expecting to see as his wicket. He obviously doesn't know weather to stick or twist. And he got no where near it with bat(gloves he did).

Might be better to rest the kid than ruin him permanently on this tour.
Ballance isn't what we want, also mentally tired and a leftie. Buttler might get a chance.


Stokes and Ali got done with turn on a fifth day pitch.

Root but of reverse, good to see despite him being our messiah, he really didn't want to review that and only did because bairstow made him.

Rashid should have left that in a rearguard fight for a draw.


Johnny b looks like he's having a net...... lol.  Still we made it to dinner on day five!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 21, 2016, 06:28:17 AM
Yes deflating to wake up to couple of unplayable ones couple of bad shots-but we are in there battling which is what is needed.
Cooks wicket last night was a hammer blow to us.
England have shown good character before after a loss we are going to need that in the next match
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 21, 2016, 06:47:18 AM
Oh dear...the end is near with asari getting a grubber.
The game really does come back to bite you - bet duckett won't be tweeting a reverse sweep any time soon given he can't play a forward defence.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 21, 2016, 07:02:20 AM
Jimmy bagging a pair of goldens.


JB surely has to bat higher than 7?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on November 21, 2016, 07:12:44 AM
Well done to India played it right after winning the toss and going big in there first innings.

Only managed to catch the last 20 mins, what's happened to Broad as a batsmen looks awful and sweeping a ball that was on the stumps and full, Jimmy also used to be a rock (record for the longest time without a 0 I remember)
Didn't see the top order wickets but disappointing Duckett hasn't scored again,
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 21, 2016, 07:33:00 AM
To be fair to England after day 2 they've done pretty well baring this morning.
Surprising we've had 2 tests that have gone to day 5! Unheard of! When are they going to prepare the Bunsen everyone's been talking about
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: fzrkev on November 21, 2016, 07:36:12 AM
Well that wasn't what I expected! That said, I've just seen a picture of the pitch on BBC test match special Facebook page. WOW! Go have a look, seriously! You'd have more chance surviving a blindfolded trip across a minefield!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 21, 2016, 07:41:54 AM
Well that wasn't what I expected! That said, I've just seen a picture of the pitch on BBC test match special Facebook page. WOW! Go have a look, seriously! You'd have more chance surviving a blindfolded trip across a minefield!

What do you expect on day 5? It's not even as bad as the pitches in Bangladesh or pitches they can produce
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: fzrkev on November 21, 2016, 07:44:13 AM
What do you expect on day 5? It's not even as bad as the pitches in Bangladesh or pitches they can produce

I don't know what to expect. I've never seen a day 5 subcontinental pitch up close before. I was just a bit shocked. I understand they will be worn, but that looked horrible.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 21, 2016, 07:50:14 AM
Has many teams seen a day five pitch??


Do we reckon there not producing Bunsen burners as India are scarf or Ali and Rashid.........: I'll get my coat.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on November 21, 2016, 08:01:20 AM
I think the difference was the fact India bowled 3 spinners on a deteriorating pitch where England pretty much bowled 1... not much to sugar coat really.

Hameed is a good find but again 38 runs from 194 balls isn't going to save too many test matches when there is nobody around supporting him
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on November 21, 2016, 08:04:08 AM
Well done to India played it right after winning the toss and going big in there first innings.

Only managed to catch the last 20 mins, what's happened to Broad as a batsmen looks awful and sweeping a ball that was on the stumps and full, Jimmy also used to be a rock (record for the longest time without a 0 I remember)
Didn't see the top order wickets but disappointing Duckett hasn't scored again,

Australian fast bowlers is what happened to Broad... They put the fear of god into him and he hasn't been the same since.... I'm not saying that cause I'm an Aussie it's just what happened
Title: Re: India v England Test Series's
Post by: csnew on November 21, 2016, 08:06:56 AM
Australian fast bowlers is what happened to Broad... They put the fear of god into him and he hasn't been the same since.... I'm not saying that cause I'm an Aussie it's just what happened

And here was me thinking it was him getting hit through the grill, but hey must not be something like that
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on November 21, 2016, 08:09:48 AM
You are right that was the start of it then Johnson cemented the fear into him
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on November 21, 2016, 08:11:33 AM
Actually no Johnson got to him before that in the 13/14 ashes series
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 21, 2016, 08:23:23 AM
Just seen a tweet-

'England lose by 246 runs. Kohli's contribution? 248 runs.'

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: billyb on November 21, 2016, 08:34:02 AM
Is Bell actually in with a shout here?
Ansari and Duckett unlikely to play apparently...

Buttler's place is pretty nailed on, but who comes in for Ansari?
Bell/Billings/Batty?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 21, 2016, 08:41:18 AM
What's Bell actually going to offer? The odd gormless face when he's totally clueless against spin? Buttler, Woakes and Ball in. Mohali should be a quicker wicket so unlikely to need 3 spinners.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on November 21, 2016, 09:04:29 AM
Why wheel Bell in? Stick with the lads you've got on tour, show a little faith and work with them to look to the future - make them work for their place instead of bringing in people outside of the squad - particularly people who aren't close to selection.

Pop Buttler in and give him a go.
Pop Bairstow at 4 (in first innings?) and Duckett to 6 or 7
Move Ansari to 4 and tell him he's a batter and occasional bowler

any of these have to be better options than looking outside the squad.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 21, 2016, 09:14:54 AM
What's Bell actually going to offer? The odd gormless face when he's totally clueless against spin? Buttler, Woakes and Ball in. Mohali should be a quicker wicket so unlikely to need 3 spinners.

yeah sounds like just 2 spinners for Mohali so there is a space. Woakes back maybe for Broad also.

I do think England want Butler in lower down as some sort of counter attacking option against the spinners.

so Ansari out, broad out, and maybe we will play Ball who has extra pace.

I'm not sure what England do with the number 4 spot.....I don't like chopping and changing the side.

have to agree with the cat (fattus) here if he stays in the team I wouldn't mind seeing him swap a place a bit lower down

but I do think Butler is in for the next match

and im not too upset with the result, we did battle into the 5th day and were on the wrong end of the toss.

im actually optimistic we can get a result in Mohali
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on November 21, 2016, 09:28:41 AM
Just to confirm that Broad is out of at least the next test.

Duckett and Ansari likely to go too.
Buttler, Batty and Woakes to come in for the game on Saturday. Going to be incredibly tough for buttler.

Hopefully common sense will prevail and Bairstow will bat at 4.

One more thing, it is worth checking the pitch on this TMS website today. It would have been tough to secore 100 today on that pitch.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 21, 2016, 09:33:54 AM
For anyone who hasn't seen it this is the tweet with the photos of the pitch i believe Buzz is talking about -

https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/800547218092457984


Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 21, 2016, 09:41:27 AM
Just to confirm that Broad is out of at least the next test.

Duckett and Ansari likely to go too.
Buttler, Batty and Woakes to come in for the game on Saturday. Going to be incredibly tough for buttler.

Hopefully common sense will prevail and Bairstow will bat at 4.

One more thing, it is worth checking the pitch on this TMS website today. It would have been tough to secore 100 today on that pitch.

if you were picking the team Buzzmeister, would you take Duckett out of the firing line?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 21, 2016, 10:06:56 AM
So what are we all thinking?

Cook
Hameed
Root
Bairstow
Ali
Stokes
Woakes
Buttler
Batty
Ball
Anderson

On this case and either bairstow at 4 I'd share the gloves between buttler and bairstow

Is buttler too low here? Can yjb handle batting at 4 and keeping? Tough on duckett for me and I'd give him nohali as last chance saloon, definitely want to see ball get a run out
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 21, 2016, 10:13:33 AM
you have left Rash out which none of us want!!  :)

haha

yes Ball should play. I have to say and I know the forum goes in a tailspin but I really do think England are a better side with Woakes in
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: 19reading87 on November 21, 2016, 10:13:59 AM
So what are we all thinking?

Cook
Hameed
Root
Bairstow
Ali
Stokes
Woakes
Buttler
Batty
Ball
Anderson

On this case and either bairstow at 4 I'd share the gloves between buttler and bairstow

Is buttler too low here? Can yjb handle batting at 4 and keeping? Tough on duckett for me and I'd give him nohali as last chance saloon, definitely want to see ball get a run out

Woakes above Butler?! Share the keeping gloves.... No Rashid?!?!

Go have a sit in the corner of a room on your own and think about what you have just done!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mpt7 on November 21, 2016, 10:22:37 AM
we have a young inexperienced batter against the best bowlers in the world

therefore you have to give them support. - what that support is depends on the individual

Move Ali to 4 and keep bairstow at 5/6 were he has scored his runs in the last year

so you have

1. Cook
2.Hameed
3. Root
4. Ai
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Buttler
8. Woakes
9. Rashid
10 Broad/Ball/Ansari/batty dependant on pitch - swap 9/10 for LH/RH combo
11. Anderson

I feel for duckett but he has a technical fault that is consistently being exposed. He must decide if he can fix it in time for the next test or he needs more time to resolve it. just don't do a Balance and appear to change very little. However, balance of the teamwise, it would be better not to have ducket, as a left hander, in the team - all is forgiven Sam Billings!! ;-)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 21, 2016, 10:41:45 AM
I think they have to take Duckett out of the firing line before his mind gets permanently fried and does lasting damage to what is clearly a very talented guy... and then perhaps bring him back in the one dayers where he will be/feel more comfortable.

as for the side - i don't actually think they have much choice -

Cook
Hameed
Root
Mo Ali
Bairstow (wk)
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Ball or perhaps Batty if suddenly Mohali is an unusually turning pitch
Anderson

I said in a post a while ago that i thought they should have brought another batter on the tour and this is why. We now simply have no options.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 21, 2016, 10:49:18 AM
I think they have to take Duckett out of the firing line before his mind gets permanently fried and does lasting damage to what is clearly a very talented guy... and then perhaps bring him back in the one dayers where he will be/feel more comfortable.

as for the side - i don't actually think they have much choice -

Cook
Hameed
Root
Mo Ali
Bairstow (wk)
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Ball or perhaps Batty if suddenly Mohali is an unusually turning pitch
Anderson

I said in a post a while ago that i thought they should have brought another batter on the tour and this is why. We now simply have no options.



I think that is the side we are going to play with Ball in.

yes it's tough on Butler, he's had no chance to do anything on tour yet.

it's a gamble worth taking I think myself.

Duckett I would love to see stay in and fight it out but England will be looking at what is best for him..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 21, 2016, 11:01:54 AM
If Ballance is no longer selectable, perhaps they out to send him home?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 21, 2016, 11:27:24 AM
If Ballance is no longer selectable, perhaps they out to send him home?

Knowing England, wouldn't be surprised if ballance gets the nod before buttler.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 21, 2016, 12:02:00 PM
Is samit patel not an option?
He's already in bangladesh and got some runs in the bpl - yes it's t20 cricket.

Probably also a better spin option than ansari
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 21, 2016, 12:24:48 PM
Glad I didn't set my alarm
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 21, 2016, 12:51:38 PM
Probably also a better spin option than ansari

No!!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 21, 2016, 12:58:46 PM
Club cricketer's snap judgement mentality in full effect here!

One Test ago we were only piece of fine tuning away from from having the perfect team! "What a middle order!" etc.

Has it not occured to anyone that this might be about something more than personnel?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 21, 2016, 01:07:33 PM
there's no need to panic, we lost the toss against the worlds number 1 team in their conditions. India didn't look too clever in the last match batting last(aside from Kholi who is different class)

and the game went to lunch of day 5......

Hameed is a massive positive, Rashid is bowling better, Broad and Anderson bowled well and Cook was back scoring runs.

yes one or two positions are difficult for us, I think our bowling is pretty good even if broad is out next game.

We need everything to go for us with the toss and then put runs on the board.

so far, we are competing far better than India do when they come to England.

start getting a bit positive lads, come on !!   :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 21, 2016, 01:13:26 PM
totally agree with that last comment

a minor tweak or two, that's all.

broad is an enforced changed ---

not sure if Ansari is offering much with bat or ball. maybe his the only other change needed atm
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on November 21, 2016, 01:21:11 PM
if you were picking the team Buzzmeister, would you take Duckett out of the firing line?

I don't know, it depends where he is mentally and how much faith the team management have got. I haven't seen enough of what has gone one to get a feel for that. But 4 isn't the right place for him, he is an opener.

He is 22, any young player could struggle with the way he has gone.

Hameed is a bit of an exception, but also needs a big score.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 21, 2016, 01:27:24 PM
I'm not sure I'd change anything that wasn't injury related, unless they feel that a 4th seamer is more beneficial than a 3rd spinner. Duckett is only starting his career and has played in some of the most difficult batting conditions that world cricket has to offer, give the lad a fair chance. You can't win as an English sportsman, we as fans are too fickle, people will call for Buttler to come in (even though he hasn't played FC for a year) and then dump all the pressure on him if he has a bad game or two. We are competing with the No 1 ranked side in their own backyard and, for my money, not making too bad a go of it.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 21, 2016, 01:43:06 PM
Woakes above Butler?! Share the keeping gloves.... No Rashid?!?!

Go have a sit in the corner of a room on your own and think about what you have just done!!

Ok I admit i need to find space for rashid, but why not share the gloves??

and i said butter was probably too low!!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 21, 2016, 01:52:06 PM
i think we are actually doing well considering all the talk of 5-0 beforehand etc... etc... and to see us take it into 5th day and last almost 100 overs 4th dig is great....

however the fact remains that we lost 4 for 29 in the 1st innings (when the pitch was ok) which pretty much lost us the game, and if we are to stand a chance that can't happen, to do anything in India you have to put 1st innings runs on the board.

i don't think Butler is the answer but i just think he has more chance than Duckett at the moment because Ashwin has him on toast

the other changes are simply injury or pitch enforced - Woakes for Broad and either Ball or Ansari/Batty
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 21, 2016, 02:49:30 PM
Mohali. next up If I were England, I would look at a couple of tweaks…

Broad is out – injured. Chance for Ball to get a game I feel? Need to see what he can do, has that extra zip ?
Not sure Ansari is offering much. If this next venue isn’t much of a turner, than I would be tempted to get Butler in? so u end up with:

Anderson
Stokes
Ball
2 spinners Ali & Rashid

And then you have batting wise:

Hameed
Cook
Root
Duckett
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Rashid
Anderson
Ball

Thoughts?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on November 21, 2016, 03:05:32 PM
I just don't get all these calls for Buttler to play. What has he done to earn a place?

For me the only way Buttler gets near the side is if Bairstow moves to 4 in which case England would need Buttler to keep.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 21, 2016, 03:06:36 PM
What's the current forum obsession with dropping Stokes down to 7? Top runscorer and top of the averages?

Realistically we don't need a new 7/8, we need a change in the middle order, so if Buttler comes in he's batting 4-6.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 21, 2016, 03:08:29 PM
I just don't get all these calls for Buttler to play. What has he done to earn a place?

For me the only way Buttler gets near the side is if Bairstow moves to 4 in which case England would need Buttler to keep.

Hard for butler to do anything to earn a place - as they aren't playing any "side games"
but his in the squad for a reason, don't see the harm in trying him.

and that don't have to be the batting order, ie stokes and buttler don't have to be batting at 7 and 8.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ScottParko on November 21, 2016, 03:10:00 PM
What's the current forum obsession with dropping Stokes down to 7? Top runscorer and top of the averages?

To elaborate on that how about filling that problem number 4 slot with the aforementioned top scorer and top average man.... Afterall it is where he would generally bat for Durham....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on November 21, 2016, 03:29:43 PM
Depends on how Bairstow feels about it but for me the only way to fix 4 is move Bairstow to 4 which brings Buttler(I don't think he deserves a recall but it does balance the side)into the side at 7 as his WK replacement.

Would then look like -

Cook
Hameed
Root
Bairstow
Ali
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Broad/Ball/Batty (Depends on fitness/Wicket)
Anderson
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 21, 2016, 03:56:58 PM
BAirstow has said on many occasions, having the gloves helps his batting. It would be counter productive to take them away from him.

Don't upset the guy making the runs!!


As for buttler, he is in the squad yes, but mainly as a backup wicket keeper. Weather there was ever a discussion involving him being a batsmen only, we won't know but at the beginning of the tour he was definately behind both ballance and duckett in the middle order pecking order.
Due to the constraints of the tour, has he really been able to prove otherwise?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 21, 2016, 04:10:42 PM
BAirstow has said on many occasions, having the gloves helps his batting. It would be counter productive to take them away from him.

Don't upset the guy making the runs!!


As for buttler, he is in the squad yes, but mainly as a backup wicket keeper. Weather there was ever a discussion involving him being a batsmen only, we won't know but at the beginning of the tour he was definately behind both ballance and duckett in the middle order pecking order.
Due to the constraints of the tour, has he really been able to prove otherwise?

true, he hasn't

im just trying to think batting wise if we don't recall Balance and do leave out Duckett how it works.

are you saying bring Balance back in rather than bring in Butler who has not played any games?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 21, 2016, 04:21:05 PM
I'm saying England have dug themselves in a hole not taking enough batting cover. 2 opening newbies, and an out of form ballance should not have been part of there 6 people that only bat.

You can only give it to who is confident. Baylis says no one is work king harder in the nets than duckett. This has to include ballance and buttler.

So keep ducket but move him lower. Blood him at 7 and move everyone else up one.



Anyone else notice we have a team of openers.

Cook
Hameed
Root
Duckett
Ali

Entire top five have opened for England in tests and it is there preferred position(or was in Roots case) is it any wonder. They struggle against spin when they arrive at the crease?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 21, 2016, 04:32:37 PM
I'm saying England have dug themselves in a hole not taking enough batting cover. 2 opening newbies, and an out of form ballance should not have been part of there 6 people that only bat.

You can only give it to who is confident. Baylis says no one is work king harder in the nets than duckett. This has to include ballance and buttler.

So keep ducket but move him lower. Blood him at 7 and move everyone else up one.



Anyone else notice we have a team of openers.

Cook
Hameed
Root
Duckett
Ali

Entire top five have opened for England in tests and it is there preferred position(or was in Roots case) is it any wonder. They struggle against spin when they arrive at the crease?

Completely agree that we have dug ourselves this hole by not taking enough batters however i don't think moving Duckett to 7 will do him any good - he will still walk out to face Ashwin and what are you telling the lad that he has gone from 1 to 4 to 7 in the space of 5 tests.

With once again it is a case of you are in the best form when you are out of the team!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 21, 2016, 04:50:34 PM
Middle-order batsman are going to have to start showing some bottle whatever numbers they bat at.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on November 21, 2016, 04:54:14 PM
Sorry but Duckett is not good enough at the minute, I think Woakes would score as many as him..

Yes he needs to be given a chance in better conditions before writing him off but I have not seen anything others cant offer.

Big difference from whacking division 2 county bowlers on good decks to playing the best spinners in the world..

Not saying he can't ever but saying he has been exposed...

I support England and support Duckett but as I said I think Woakes would score as many at the minute.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 21, 2016, 04:57:38 PM
Get Harry in!

https://twitter.com/tmsproducer/status/800743409891741697
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 21, 2016, 05:00:47 PM
And so "Duckett must play" becomes "Duckett must go"...



Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on November 21, 2016, 05:04:39 PM
And so "Duckett must play" becomes "Duckett must go"...

Never said he should stay or go I'm just a fan I just think he has found the going tough and as I have said I think woakes would score as many as him so I suspect why pick him.



For me he should be working hard it playing for England after all and I hope he plays and does well as every player who dons the shirt.

But no I do not think he is good enough at the minute.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 21, 2016, 05:06:19 PM
mid term Duckett must play - he has potentially world class talent.

but he should only play the next test if it is going to aid his long term development.  I wonder at the moment if the opposite is the case.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 21, 2016, 05:13:45 PM
mid term Duckett must play - he has potentially world class talent.

but he should only play the next test if it is going to aid his long term development.  I wonder at the moment if the opposite is the case.

I think it was James Taylor that I heard say the transition in 80% mental.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 21, 2016, 05:15:06 PM
this is tricky is'nt it?  young player, you want to stick with him he has hardly had a chance is very testing conditions. Do we go back to Ballance if he does not play?    hmmmm not sure that would be right

the way ive worked out the Mohali test is Ansari is left out and broad is not fit.

so woakes in and probably Ball, there's no one else to drop far as I can see unless it's Duckett for Butler, everyone moves up a place and Butler slots in lower down.

Butler gives a right handed option, might counter attack and put pressure on the bowlers. He might also do nothing as he hasn't played for ages and has no track record in tests of scoring against decent spin....


trying to think of another option available without dropping the youngster and still playing 2 spinners.

I don't think there is one.


Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Stuey on November 21, 2016, 05:43:10 PM
I can't see what bringing ballance in will achieve. I'd like to see Buttler get another crack, but not sure where he fits in and hasn't played for months. I think you have to be fair to Duckett and give him time to turn things around, stick with him.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 21, 2016, 06:13:24 PM
Problem is though against Ashwin Ducett looks out of his depth playing  him again in this  series  won't help his development
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 21, 2016, 07:18:52 PM
The guardian have Butler in and Duckett missing out in the next test.
Think thats the way we will go.Butler had problems with spin when he got dropped as well the same as Duckett now.
You have to presume he is going to have licence to thump it lower down the order...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on November 21, 2016, 08:18:29 PM
Get Harry in!

https://twitter.com/tmsproducer/status/800743409891741697

God there are some shites on twitter!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on November 21, 2016, 08:22:18 PM
I'm going to say, give Duckett at least one more test ahead of picking Butler. Stick with the boy, show him a little faith and see if he can repay you, don't be so quick to jettison him.

I am utterly unconvinced that Buttler will score more than him in a test match situation anyway.

I would however look at Ansari's position - he doesn't look well or fully fit (lots of back clutching). He's being picked as a front line spinner, which he isn't. Pick a front line spinner from your squad.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on November 22, 2016, 02:39:31 AM
Funny how lot of posts are all about Hameed and Duckett as if England lost because them....
I feel Cooks, Roots, Bairstows of the team have to step up and lead by example just like KP and Cook did last time. And spinners have to be more effective. If Indian dressing room is asked who you would not like to face, I am sure they would all say Jimmy. Rather its should be the spinners if England were to put up a fight...
If the experienced batters dont step up and spinners dont improve, England will continue to sink in this series. I doubt if it will make any difference if Duckett is replaced or not.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: jamielsn15 on November 22, 2016, 06:52:02 AM
Cricinfo reporting that buttler will play as a specialist batsman for duckett. I'm not one to usually criticise the selectors and I've said it before - they were hasty in selecting he same players for India as Bangladesh. Seemed the easy option when many players struggled in a tied series.

Definitely a batsman light...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 22, 2016, 08:58:30 AM
Cricinfo reporting that buttler will play as a specialist batsman for duckett. I'm not one to usually criticise the selectors and I've said it before - they were hasty in selecting he same players for India as Bangladesh. Seemed the easy option when many players struggled in a tied series.

Definitely a batsman light...

we are only a batsman light because Balance was not in any form during the summer and still made the tour, Duckett was untried pretty much as is Butler in test cricket.....

so yes...selection had a flaw in it.

i'm not sure who else they would of picked if Balance was left out of the original squad to be honest. If you think we need some experience the only player one I can think of is Bell

and it's a bit early to set the forum off !!  Bell seems to split opinion just like KP....

 :) :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 22, 2016, 09:28:55 AM
Funny how lot of posts are all about Hameed and Duckett as if England lost because them....
I feel Cooks, Roots, Bairstows of the team have to step up and lead by example just like KP and Cook did last time. And spinners have to be more effective. If Indian dressing room is asked who you would not like to face, I am sure they would all say Jimmy. Rather its should be the spinners if England were to put up a fight...
If the experienced batters dont step up and spinners dont improve, England will continue to sink in this series. I doubt if it will make any difference if Duckett is replaced or not.

All Duckett didn't score any runs England lost because they were outplayed
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 22, 2016, 11:17:58 AM
For England to win in India at the moment they need everything to go their way - they need the toss, to perform at their best when India underperform, and a bit of luck with the weather (more or less the same as India would need to win in England really).  We aren't doing badly, all things considered.

I watched some footage of Duckett yesterday and on reflection, there is a definite technical flaw in his defence.  He plans to stay leg side of anything the off spinner bowls and hook his defence rather than defend down the stump  to stump line.  That method was fine in Bangladesh, where the wickets were raging bunsens, but on Indian wickets which turn inconsistently he hasn't got a natural answer to the will-it-turn-or-won't-it conundrum.  He'd do well to look at how Hameed and Bairstow have decided upon different but very decisive methods of playing that allow them time to adjust to the ball.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on November 22, 2016, 11:25:41 AM
Agreed, his hips also open up which stops him being able to adjust. It relies on hand eye co-ordination and great hand speed. Both of which he has, but on a Bunsen that isn't enough.

Playing spin is tough, but when it is spinning the key is to try and smother the ball as it pitches when it is full or playing back as far as possible and play it if you need to as late as possible with your weight over the ball (not stepping away through the shot). Watch how Kohli plays it. you also have to use the width of the crease as well as the depth.

Duckett's method isn't allowing him to do this. But it isn't hard to change. I am staggered he hasn't sorted it already to be honest.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 22, 2016, 11:31:08 AM
Bayliss says Duckett has worked harder than anyone else at his game the last 2 months

We have coaches out there, they have to do their job thou right?

a player at 22 is very rarely the finished article. Duckett has bags of natural talent.

Ramprakash is the one to help him, technically maybe the best of his generation

England need to get busy and start working with him....it's no good having a few throw down now and again
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 22, 2016, 11:32:25 AM
I doubt he will have played on wickets like these before - you say bunsens but actually they're not, not like the two in Bangladesh, where everything spun markedly.  Instead, you've got a broken up wicket, where the ball might or might not deviate in four directions at any one time, with no standardisation involved.

Hameed played very deep in his crease, and kept his hands low.  Bairstow looked to get right forward or right back early.  Both looked at home...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 22, 2016, 11:33:36 AM
Agreed, his hips also open up which stops him being able to adjust. It relies on hand eye co-ordination and great hand speed. Both of which he has, but on a Bunsen that isn't enough.

Playing spin is tough, but when it is spinning the key is to with smother the ball as it pitches or playing back as far as possible. Watch how Kohli plays it. you also have to use the width of the crease as well as the depth.

Duckett's method isn't allowing him to do this. But it isn't hard to change. I am staggered he hasn't sorted it already to be honest.

this is the bit that puzzles me the most Buzz - with all the help (video etc...) and coaching they have out there, how has he not seen this and corrected it or at least showed signs of it.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Vitas Cricket on November 22, 2016, 11:43:43 AM
this is the bit that puzzles me the most Buzz - with all the help (video etc...) and coaching they have out there, how has he not seen this and corrected it or at least showed signs of it.

Because he like so many young players currently just sees spin (having only ever faced dibble in the UK rather than proper spin on a sandpit) as latin for 10 an over. Adjusting that mentality rather than technique is what will take time.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on November 22, 2016, 12:38:48 PM
I know it's more of a patch job than a complete fix but if he moved to an Off Stump guard surely when he triggers to leg and it turns it'll be missing the stumps?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 22, 2016, 01:12:12 PM
doesn't really work because the issue is more about the limited insection between the plane of the ball from the right arm round bowling and that of his stroke.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 22, 2016, 01:36:45 PM
Buttler should only be consider as a number 6 or 7. I don't buy this he will go out and smash it nonsense. Looks good when the odd ball flies into the crowd but looks village when your stumps get rearranged
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 22, 2016, 01:48:24 PM
Buttler should only be consider as a number 6 or 7. I don't buy this he will go out and smash it nonsense. Looks good when the odd ball flies into the crowd but looks village when your stumps get rearranged

yes.....I think what will happen is bairstow moves up and Butler...presuming England pick him which looks likely.... will go in at 7 or maybe 8 depending on where Woakes bats....

I think (we) are going to gamble it comes off. Bayliss likes Butler and the way the one day guys play.......

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 22, 2016, 05:08:00 PM
Ok - so thinking about this logically - 2nd Test line up was Cook, Hameed, Root, Duckett, Ali, Stokes, Bairstow, Rashid, Ansari, Broad, Anderson.

Let's assume that Cook, Hameed, Root, Ali, Stokes, Bairstow, Rashid and Anderson are in for the 3rd Test.
That leaves 3 unknowns which we should take one at a time to address!

1. Broad - would be playing but has issues with his foot. Obvious replacement if he is fit again is likely to be Woakes.
2. Duckett - The shot he played in the last innings does seem to suggest that he has mental issues. He would have normally put a bad ball like that away 99% of the time in his sleep! So if the Management think he is ok to bat still, then leave him in as the wicket will (supposedly) play better for batsmen in the next Test? But if they are worried about Duckett's mental state then they may pull him - replacement? Probably Buttler (maybe at 4, maybe slightly lower down the order)
3. Ansari - decent player who hasn't come alive in any match yet. Unlikely to play in the 3rd Test if the wicket is not expected to require 3 spinners! So if they decide that Rashid and Ali are enough, with the option of Root taking a few overs if required, then Ansari will be the one rested! Therefore replacement is likely to be pace bowler - hopefully Ball (please not Finn until he shows genuine improvement again) as Ball has shown his quality already in Bangladesh!

I can see Broad and Ansari definitely being rested! No opinion on Duckett as I have no clue as to his frame of mind currently but would hope that the Management know whether he is mentally fit enough or not. So I think either:

Cook, Hameed, Root
Duckett, Ali, Stokes, Bairstow,
Woakes, Rashid, Ball, Anderson.

Or if Duckett is left out:

Cook, Hameed, Root,
Bairstow, Ali, Stokes, Buttler,
Woakes, Rashid, Ball, Anderson

Bairstow could bat 4 as there is always the option of Buttler taking the gloves if Bairstow goes big with the bat!! ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: sgcricket on November 23, 2016, 07:48:32 AM
Buttler, Woakes and Finn will come in
Broad, Duckett and Ansari will go out
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on November 23, 2016, 09:07:25 AM
Finn!!!! What the f*ck has Ball done - wee'd in Trevor's Frapuccino?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 23, 2016, 09:12:10 AM
I can't believe Finn will play ahead of Ball in this match, presuming we don't need 3 spinners

it's got to be ball surely  :)   love Steve Finn but he hasn't bowled well for a while.

ive seen Ball bowl live and he has got some wheels and gets decent bounce
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 23, 2016, 01:26:04 PM
Indian stumper Saha is out with a leg injury and has been replaced by Parthiv Patel. Who rather remarkably Is still only 31 years old. First Test in 8 years.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 23, 2016, 03:03:56 PM
Finns in because they are expecting a track with bounce and carry
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: dcullen8 on November 23, 2016, 03:26:45 PM
they needed the extra height of Finn over Ball, that whole inch will make all the difference, not their skills or Finns ability to bowl absolute dross...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 23, 2016, 03:38:16 PM
UNBELIEVABLE.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 23, 2016, 03:47:09 PM
Quite.  One was the best seamer in England last year.  The other was the fourth best seamer in Middlesex.

Go figure.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on November 23, 2016, 04:05:22 PM
Finns in because they are expecting a track with bounce and carry

Mohali is not the same anymore. Last test against SA, spinners dominated big time.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 23, 2016, 04:45:07 PM
Finns in because they are expecting a track with bounce and carry

Shastri mentioned its too early in the season for pace and bounce, more likely to be on the slower side
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 23, 2016, 05:11:18 PM
if all that is correct, and even if the wicket should help seamers, there's nothing stopping India shaving any remaining grass off,  we could be back to three spinners and just Woakes back for Broad.

and Butler replacing Duckett.

which might mean a game for Batty?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 23, 2016, 06:55:03 PM
Steven Finn's international career needs to be put out of its' misery. Not sure he was even the fourth best seamer in Middlesex last year, I'd rather have James Fuller!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 23, 2016, 08:03:20 PM
Steven Finn's international career needs to be put out of its' misery. Not sure he was even the fourth best seamer in Middlesex last year, I'd rather have James Fuller!

1. Roland-Jones
2. Murtagh
3. Harris
4. Franklin
5. Fuller
6. Podmore
7. Helm
8. Finn

Bit mean?   :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 24, 2016, 02:57:29 PM
After the  2nd innings  england blockathon failed hot off the  press from the england camp for the 3rd test :
josh Buttler license to thrill
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 24, 2016, 03:01:08 PM
After the  2nd innings  england blockathon failed hot off the  press from the england camp for the 3rd test :
josh Buttler license to thrill

I can't wait to see him make a run a ball 2, having been sent in mid collapse for a good time, not a long time!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 24, 2016, 03:07:53 PM
Its gonna be interesting how Jos goes, down the order to give it a thump.
That should mean(i think!) Woakes bats 8 rash 9

Senior....in this match coming up do you think England are stronger with Woakes in?

Or because he is that far down would you pick another bowler instead?
Be interested to know i feel we are a better side with Woakes in
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 24, 2016, 04:22:41 PM
Its gonna be interesting how Jos goes, down the order to give it a thump.
That should mean(i think!) Woakes bats 8 rash 9

Senior....in this match coming up do you think England are stronger with Woakes in?

Or because he is that far down would you pick another bowler instead?
Be interested to know i feel we are a better side with Woakes in

No Carlo because for me  in the sub continent   woakes as  show he is out of his depth  with ball against top order players  also his  batting average  is boosted  by not outs due to batting low down  he's a make do and hopefully mend  selection I would have gone for ball. Unlike England selectors  Never been a fan of bits and pieces players  for me they need to be as good as Flittoff or Botham to be called allrounders . But the problem is as stated by others  on here on this tour we are a batsman  light and have no proven   Quality quick bowling cover for Broad and Anderson.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 25, 2016, 08:55:55 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38101943 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38101943)

Duckett, Broad & Ansari out of the 3rd Test
Buttler, Woakes & A.N Other (to be confirmed at the toss) coming in
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 25, 2016, 08:59:58 AM
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38101943[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38101943[/url])

Duckett, Broad & Ansari out of the 3rd Test
Buttler, Woakes & A.N Other (to be confirmed at the toss) coming in


yeah WW37....

but who is the mystery player  :) looks like despite vicious rumours Mohali help seamers the groundman has shaved the pitch smoother than a bikini wax in a salon.

who is your money on?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 25, 2016, 09:02:04 AM
Who I'd like to see play is Ball, but knowing the England selectors my money is on Finn getting a game.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 25, 2016, 09:24:53 AM
Aggers has tweeted this - i reckon Batty may play if this is true....

https://twitter.com/Aggerscricket/status/802052666889076738

Nasser tweeted this pic of the pitch 2 days ago  :o :o

https://twitter.com/nassercricket/status/801656571533017088

and also TMS - although a long way away the pitch doesn't look very green to me  :D :D

https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/802054969679454208

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 25, 2016, 09:34:20 AM
Aggers has tweeted this - i reckon Batty may play if this is true....

https://twitter.com/Aggerscricket/status/802052666889076738

Nasser tweeted this pic of the pitch 2 days ago  :o :o

https://twitter.com/nassercricket/status/801656571533017088

and also TMS - although a long way away the pitch doesn't look very green to me  :D :D

https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/802054969679454208



good banter with Jimmy. I think he is referring to when Nasser stuck the Aussies in at Brisbane or Adelaide and it was a belting wicket  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 25, 2016, 09:36:15 AM
yeah WW37....

but who is the mystery player  :) looks like despite vicious rumours Mohali help seamers the groundman has shaved the pitch smoother than a bikini wax in a salon.

who is your money on?

Mohall is known to assist seamers but To be effective you have to  have the ability to pitch the ball up and get it to seam late can't comment on Ball but out of the other bowlers  named who are playing only Jimmy can do it at will
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 25, 2016, 10:04:33 AM
Mohall is known to assist seamers but To be effective you have to  have the ability to pitch the ball up and get it to seam late can't comment on Ball but out of the other bowlers  named who are playing only Jimmy can do it at will

Not any more, turned massively against SA. Too early in the season to get any pace and bounce. Might swing a little bit, but that's about it.
We'll finally see a turning wicket ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 25, 2016, 10:28:27 AM
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38101943[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38101943[/url])

Duckett, Broad & Ansari out of the 3rd Test
Buttler, Woakes & A.N Other (to be confirmed at the toss) coming in


I guess it depends on whether they win the toss? I suspect that if England bowl 1st and 3rd, they may play Ball (Please not Finn!) and if England bowl 2nd and 4th then maybe Batty will get the spot?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 25, 2016, 10:34:39 AM
Pete, they can't wait till after the toss to decide!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 25, 2016, 10:36:10 AM
I guess it depends on whether they win the toss? I suspect that if England bowl 1st and 3rd, they may play Ball (Please not Finn!) and if England bowl 2nd and 4th then maybe Batty will get the spot?
Be nice if we could do that, teams have to be named before the toss though.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 25, 2016, 10:45:33 AM
Pete loving the re-writing of the rules!

 :)

any why not? 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 25, 2016, 10:49:13 AM
I still think they should change the rules for the toss!
If the away team chooses the 1st Test. Then the losing team from the 1st Test choose 2nd Test and so on. And for a Draw, the away team chooses the next Test.
And that would also help the team selection for the next Test, as you would have a better idea of what you will be doing (bat first, bowl first, etc)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 25, 2016, 12:16:21 PM
Interesting to see that Ali and bairstow move up to 4 and 5, and jos is in at 7.

Yet stokes stays at six. We reckon they've done that because of his bowling or he put his foot down to stay at 6??
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on November 25, 2016, 12:51:13 PM
Two thoughts:

It breaks up the lefthanders.

It would be good to have something approaching a settled team!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 25, 2016, 12:55:00 PM
6 is right for Stokes, he is a genuine all rounder

and I think he asked to bat there a while back.......or it was when Farbrace was in charge for a while and told Stokes that should be where he bats

one of the two can't remember, but genuine all rounder-that's where you should bat.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on November 25, 2016, 12:56:09 PM
6 is right for Stokes, he is a genuine all rounder

and I think he asked to bat there a while back.......or it was when Farbrace was in charge for a while and told Stokes that should be where he bats

one of the two can't remember, but genuine all rounder-that's where you should bat.

Don't be so prescriptive, I wouldn't have wasted Kallis or Sobers at 6!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 25, 2016, 12:57:32 PM
But Ali is at 4 and woakes 8........... cough #genuineallroudners cough
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 25, 2016, 01:10:22 PM
But Ali is at 4 and woakes 8........... cough #genuineallroudners couch

yeah I think that's why you get differing opinions on the forum regarding allrounders....any why Woakes causes so many posts. I don't agree with @Seniorplayer about Woakes(not being in the team) but I do see what he means....

Both he and I (am im sure some other oldies on here(fattus!!!) and those younger that appreciate the older players, grew up with botham.khan.dev,hadlee, etc.....in one era there were some of the best ever, and you can argue all day long who was the best(BOTHAM!!!!!)  :)

So when someone on here posts 'genuine allrounder' it sort of means something a bit different(!)

so I see where senior is coming from

I do class Stokes as genuine allrounder, I don't think Ali or Woakes are......

If that makes any sense  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on November 25, 2016, 01:26:37 PM
Given Moeen was picked as the number 1 spinner and is now batting at 4 it might be a little disingenuous no to refer to him as a genuine allrounder.
Woakes has been picked as a bowler first and foremost but I think he is not far from being a genuine all rounder. He is certainly a better batter than Collingwood was a bowler for example.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 25, 2016, 01:42:22 PM
SEXY JOS TIME
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on November 25, 2016, 01:52:36 PM
Suprised Jos has come in as a batsman only. Thought they would have gone YJB 4 & given Buttler the gloves. I suppose it does break the RH/LH up a bit with Mo at 4.

Fair bit of work for Mo to get through being #1 spinner and #4 in the order.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 25, 2016, 02:01:08 PM
1- as has been mentioned on here so so many times. JB does not want to give up the gloves. In His mind it helps his batting. So why risk taking your form batsmen going out of form by upsetting him?


2- jos has played 1 first class game in 13months. Let him concentrate on his batting only. Why chuck a second discipline on a guy that probably has a lot to think about as it is on his comeback.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 25, 2016, 02:13:25 PM
the management are already taking the pressure off Jos and quite right, the middle bit of our batting order has not settled down for a while(although I think Duckett is the answer long term)

so it's a wildcard and i'm sure he will be given licence

it's a gamble but if we look at the options available there's not much left  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 25, 2016, 09:48:35 PM
Given Moeen was picked as the number 1 spinner and is now batting at 4 it might be a little disingenuous no to refer to him as a genuine allrounder.
Woakes has been picked as a bowler first and foremost but I think he is not far from being a genuine all rounder. He is certainly a better batter than Collingwood was a bowler for example.

Better batter than Collingwood maybe  but no where near as good as Sobers Botham  and other proper all rounders With bat or ball.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 25, 2016, 10:28:15 PM
Moeen might've been selected as number 1 spinner, but he's along way from being a leading spinner for any of the other major Test playing nations. He isn't a true all rounder. Neither is Woakes.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 25, 2016, 10:30:25 PM
Been reading that all the ex pros suggesting Mohali would be fast and bouncy. What planet they living on? Last year Dean Elgar's flithy SLA bagged a 4fer up there, so was there ever a chance India would produce a pitch that favours the opposition? IIRC last time India toured these shores, we dished up the greenest pitch I've ever seen at Lords.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 25, 2016, 10:32:44 PM
Arrrr. Dean Elgar. #genuineallrounder........
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 25, 2016, 10:39:15 PM
So if the wicket is going to be that dry, then surely Batty will get the final spot?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Vitas Cricket on November 25, 2016, 10:40:17 PM
Looks dry as a biscuit to me

https://twitter.com/skycricket/status/801694013027975168
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 25, 2016, 10:48:01 PM
Yup. We need the same coin we had in the first test
'Tails never fails'
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 25, 2016, 10:48:42 PM
Would be nice to win the toss!
Whoever bats first is going to be favourite by the looks of things.
Is it another 4am start?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 25, 2016, 11:01:28 PM
Yes im normally watching about 5 am.rick james and one or two other early birds!
Batty should be in for us i would think.
I just wonder if we would be better with another seamer and play to our strengths even thou theres no grass on it
But Batty back i would think is nailed on
Crucial game for England,we need some luck and to put them under pressure
If we do who knows?  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 26, 2016, 05:02:40 AM
Cook dropped twice already! Once hilariously by Ashwin, who followed up by sliding and booting one for 4. Does look to be a bit it in for the seamers. Root looking too good as usual, hopefully he does better than the usual breezy 40...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 26, 2016, 05:13:23 AM
Oh god. Save us please Jos.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 26, 2016, 07:20:22 AM
Already playing like a day 4 wicket: variable bounce and it's taking turn
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 26, 2016, 07:37:56 AM
Fifty for JB.


Can someone just remind me. There was a member banging on about how JB cant play spin and won't score anything in Asia this winter.
Just can't remember who it was........
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on November 26, 2016, 07:44:27 AM
Chris, dont be silly he cant play spin he only averages 93 on this tour.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 26, 2016, 07:54:25 AM
Barstow's got a lot of starts and not produced a big knock so far this tour, could do with today being the day for a score.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 26, 2016, 07:54:38 AM
Every time YJB bats like this I get a smug sense of "told you so!"
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 26, 2016, 07:55:45 AM
Kohli must be the most defensive captain going. Long on already back to buttler who's just come in
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 26, 2016, 07:58:45 AM
Barstow's got a lot of starts and not produced a big knock so far this tour, could do with today being the day for a score.

bit tough when the management insist on batting their best player at seven...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 26, 2016, 08:09:19 AM
bit tough when the management insist on batting their best player at seven...
7 isn't as low as normal when you've got Woakes Rashid and Ansari behind you as has been the case recently! Plus other than one not out, he's been 6th wicket to fall in every innings so not like he's been left with the tail. Batting well but I'd like to see him make it count more. Same goes for Root 90% of the time unfortunately.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on November 26, 2016, 08:23:31 AM
jos is looking frisky. He'll need to be careful with all these induckers flying around!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 26, 2016, 08:26:45 AM
Great stuff from Jos and bairstow here, looking at the pitch, no idea what a good score is but bairstow showing what a good player he is now....

Stick around Jos !
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 26, 2016, 08:34:51 AM
Plus other than one not out, he's been 6th wicket to fall in every innings so not like he's been left with the tail. Batting well but I'd like to see him make it count more.

I think he is trying to do exactly that - remember how often he was last man out in South Africa last year?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tom line on November 26, 2016, 09:27:51 AM
Oh Jos
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 26, 2016, 09:31:27 AM
So 5 England batsmen so far have thrown their wickets away! Poor batting
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 26, 2016, 10:16:32 AM
So 5 England batsmen so far have thrown their wickets away! Poor batting

Having watched it live have to agree what was Cook thinking playing that shot first  ball against Ashwin
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 26, 2016, 10:24:49 AM
I love YJB
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 26, 2016, 10:35:49 AM
Cracking innings from johnny. Got us near a decent total.


Woakes aiming for another not out here to nudge his average up.........
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: liscon12 on November 26, 2016, 10:35:49 AM
That ball tracking looked very odd to me, no way was that ball pitching outside off, looked like it pitched on middle
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 26, 2016, 10:37:51 AM
That ball tracking looked very odd to me, no way was that ball pitching outside off, looked like it pitched on middle

Camera used for looking at edge is not inline with the stumps, so not really wise to use it as a judgement where the ball pitched.

Hawk eye cameras are bang inline(ills smith they aren't 100% accurate mind)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 26, 2016, 12:28:46 PM
Well - England did win the toss but seemed to through away half their wickets!
So any advantage from batting first hasn't been taken! To me it's evens at the moment.
India will need to bat well when they bat tomorrow and will have to bat even better in the 4th innings (assuming England don't through the Test away before that!)
England will need to bowl really well to pull us back into this Test though - although you never judge until both teams have batted I guess.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 26, 2016, 12:36:22 PM
I reckon if we could get up to 300 we'd be pretty handily placed given that the pitch will make it harder and harder for batsmen in each successive innings.  Can't help but feel that we will miss Broad though, he is so good when there is any variation in bounce.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 26, 2016, 02:14:59 PM
Cracking innings from johnny. Got us near a decent total.


Woakes aiming for another not out here to nudge his average up.........

Yep 25 off 80 balls
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 26, 2016, 02:26:37 PM
Yep 25 off 80 balls

🎣
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 26, 2016, 02:51:25 PM
Pretty inept batting effort TBH. I literally counted 5 balls that ripped square during the entire day. Granted Hameed got a lifter but again that was a rarity. This was easily an 400-450 wicket yet we screwed it up.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 26, 2016, 03:01:44 PM
We didn't bat very well today, looks like there might be something in the pitch thou hameed got a very nasty lifter.

This is were I think our seamers might do better because the Indians are superb players of spin, if it goes up and down a bit later on our quicks might do more damage....but we have 3 spinners in again, would like to of seen ball in for batty in this match.

And I see Khoi got away with it, he gives Stokes a send off, Stokes responds and he gets reprimanded.

If you start it you should get reprimanded as well. But then it's Khoii and we are in India  :)

Can't see us getting many more runs tommorow looks a crucial day in the series
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 26, 2016, 03:11:31 PM
TBH I thought Shami and U Yadav where fantastic today, showed good skills reversing it at 90mph, not too shabby
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 26, 2016, 04:08:49 PM
🎣

Well Unfortunatly for England he hardly looked like  scoring a big hundred but we never know he might get a 5 for after all according to some he is a genuine allrouder....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 26, 2016, 04:18:13 PM
Well Unfortunatly for England he hardly looked like  scoring a big hundred but we never know he might get a 5 for after all according to some he is a genuine allrouder....

Big fish biting today.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 26, 2016, 05:12:30 PM
Big fish biting today.

Certainly Are
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 26, 2016, 05:57:43 PM
Let's keep it civil, the forum has had a good vibe in the last 6 months let's not lose that again

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 26, 2016, 06:16:59 PM
Well said Carlo
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 26, 2016, 06:23:31 PM
Do you ever have anything positive to say?

For me what I saw India bowled well! Yes England have thrown wickets away but o feel the bowling causes some of the bad shots

England will have to bowl well yes but this game is evens and there for anyone to take! massive day tomorrow!

Don't think it's evens at all it was Indias day
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 26, 2016, 06:47:41 PM
on a positive note for England Jos Butler batted really well and used his brain to keep the scoreboard moving with bairstow
Only his first game back but he is always looking for runs and we need that mindset in the lower order.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 27, 2016, 07:59:19 AM
Back to the cricket children  :D
Again kohli and pujara putting on a partnership. 283 is well below bar after you win the toss
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 27, 2016, 08:43:18 AM
Gareth batty.

Our go to spin bowler in the Bangladesh first test.

India third test, he's sixth choice bowler. And is having a mare, not sure cook has a clue what he's doing with the field mind.

Should have picked Ball!

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 27, 2016, 09:07:02 AM
Just listening to Athers on sky saying we should of had the extra seamer in every test on this tour and play to our strengths

We are staring down the barrel again in this match unless we can break this partnership straight after lunch
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 27, 2016, 09:10:09 AM
!!!!!
Woakes

He bats he bowls he catches  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 27, 2016, 09:11:50 AM
Yes, I am struggling to see the point in having Batty and Moeen in the side - at least when it was Ansari there was some variety and a chance to blood a young player. 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 27, 2016, 09:13:52 AM
!!!!!
Woakes

He bats for his average he bowls filthy medium pace he catches one in three if you're lucky  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 27, 2016, 09:16:24 AM
DILLY DING DILLY DONG
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 27, 2016, 09:18:18 AM
He did not pick that. Missed it by a mile!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 27, 2016, 09:20:36 AM
Yes, I am struggling to see the point in having Batty and Moeen in the side - at least when it was Ansari there was some variety and a chance to blood a young player. 

You would think if broad was fit we would have 2 spinners....

But even then Ball might of been useful. If wickets break up a bit or there is uneven bounce seamers can do the job just as well...

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 27, 2016, 09:21:47 AM
Oh my giddy aunt this game has come alive

Jos butler!!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 27, 2016, 09:22:17 AM
Have India been watching India with the collapse?


Kohli going for a wander and sending the newbie I big dummie there!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 27, 2016, 09:23:30 AM
BIG JOS
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Johnny on November 27, 2016, 09:24:08 AM
Jos! Specialist backward point and no.7 batter. Every team needs one!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 27, 2016, 09:25:25 AM
That was just brilliant fielding
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 27, 2016, 10:03:30 AM
BENJI!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 27, 2016, 10:03:45 AM
Ben stokes gets the wicket and immediately has to bite his own tongue....... serious restraint from him, bet he wanted to give a send off more than anything there.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 27, 2016, 10:14:52 AM
!!!!!
Woakes

He bats he bowls he catches  :)

 Ah.  Got it He catches that's why he's playing
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 27, 2016, 10:22:08 AM
The way Rashid is bowling has improved on this tour he has shown you know longer need he extra  spinner Ball or the extra batsman  should have played.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 27, 2016, 10:24:52 AM
I love Bairstow's excitement levels right now
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on November 27, 2016, 10:28:30 AM
The way Rashid has improved on this tour has been great to see, I think now his (and Cook's) confidence has improved test match bowling has finally clicked for him. Staking a big case for still being in the team in the summer with Ali playing his more natural role of middle order batsman and second spinner.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 27, 2016, 11:08:05 AM
Despite getting kohli, Ashwin showing he's definitely an all rounder now

Batty has been extremely poor for such an experienced spinner
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: lexx on November 27, 2016, 11:23:37 AM
New ball going everywhere now. Disappointed end to a good afternoon for England. England need nip out these two asap
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 27, 2016, 11:29:55 AM
 Yes after the first over  cooks face says it  all he gives the new ball to Woakes  who goes for. Ten
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on November 27, 2016, 01:03:09 PM
Nip these two out early tomorrow and we don't really want India having any more than about 30-40 in front and then we really need to bat well for at least a day and half and put some pressure on India 2nd innings with out bowlers having a good total to bowl too, cook bat all 2nd innings and the powerful and long middle order doing there job. Well here is hoping anyway
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Tailendfielder on November 27, 2016, 01:21:15 PM
Yes after the first over  cooks face says it  all he gives the new ball to Woakes  who goes for. Ten

Whats your issue with Woakes? Think his becoming a serious cricketer for us
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 27, 2016, 03:55:09 PM
No issue Dave  for me on this   tour so far he has not been good enough with bat or ball
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 27, 2016, 05:19:17 PM
Saw the Anderson appealing for obstructing the field - thought it was pretty pathetic. Batsman hasn't moved at all to get in the way of the ball
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: billyb on November 27, 2016, 06:26:11 PM
I'm surprised that Woakes is being criticised, for me he is one of our best players. We've only played a couple of tests remember.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 28, 2016, 06:47:54 AM
Lead already 75. First time jadeja has batted properly.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 28, 2016, 07:12:50 AM
Woakes smacked 4 4s in that over, few on here would have enjoyed that. Jadeja teeing off
Pitch looks pretty flat, not spinning much
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 28, 2016, 07:13:45 AM
Woakes is totally useless in sub continental conditions. He runs in and puts the ball on a length. Straight up and down. Incapable of getting reverse swing. Just gifting the opposition batsmen easy scoring opportunities
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 28, 2016, 07:16:33 AM
Jadeja throws away the chance for a 100. Much needed wicket for England
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on November 28, 2016, 07:31:42 AM
I am not watching the match. But judging by the scores, it does sound like the wicket is not getting any worse and maybe even getting flatter?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 28, 2016, 08:38:35 AM
I am not watching the match. But judging by the scores, it does sound like the wicket is not getting any worse and maybe even getting flatter?
Commentators have all been saying so. Odds on some gremlins having run out and miraculously turned it into a minefield at tea though?

Root opens with Cook, not sure about that.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 28, 2016, 08:40:46 AM
Surely Ali should have opened?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 28, 2016, 08:52:07 AM
hameed must be struggling with the whack on the hand in the 1st innings....

we will do well to hang on this evening, hard going in the field but what an effort from Stokes.....

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 28, 2016, 08:54:37 AM
So if hameed isn't available for test 4/5  What do we do?


Open with duckett? Ali? Root stay there?

If not duckett does ducket or ballance come into the middle order?


Do ee bother calling anyone up if he is injured? a proper opener? Hales, lyth, Robson etc.

Or do we call up a middle order player? Vince, kp, bortheick. Or one of many many more?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 28, 2016, 08:56:56 AM
Surely Ali should have opened?
He didn't exactly make a great fist of it last winter did he! Assuming Moeen bats 3, he'll have batted in every spot in the top 9 for England. Sounds like my club seasons recently...

I'd have sent Woakes out with Cook. Not just to annoy seniorplayer either, although that would have been an added benefit.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 28, 2016, 09:10:45 AM
So if hameed isn't available for test 4/5  What do we do?


Open with duckett? Ali? Root stay there?

If not duckett does ducket or ballance come into the middle order?


Do ee bother calling anyone up if he is injured? a proper opener? Hales, lyth, Robson etc.

Or do we call up a middle order player? Vince, kp, bortheick. Or one of many many more?

there's a break after this match before Mumbai so there's time to get fit, depends if it's a crack or just bruising I suppose.

As to who we call up  :) those that posted on here we looked a batsman light might be proved right

I don't think were but taking Balance so clearly out of form was a mistake.

We are getting ourselves in a bit of a tangle on this tour, we are on the wrong end of it this match that's for sure.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 28, 2016, 09:13:34 AM
Is DRS dead?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 28, 2016, 09:13:49 AM
Cook looks gone here too  :(
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 28, 2016, 09:14:56 AM
Nah, great umpiring
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 28, 2016, 09:17:34 AM
I can't take much more of this
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 28, 2016, 09:27:16 AM
hanging on for dear life here  :)

COME ON COOKIE REVERSE SWEEP IT
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 28, 2016, 09:28:45 AM
This is awful
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 28, 2016, 09:28:58 AM
hanging on for dear life here  :)

COME ON COOKIE REVERSE SWEEP IT

MAybe he should have.......
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 28, 2016, 09:29:36 AM
This is awful


Yep drop cookie............ (that'll get @Bats_Entertainment going)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 28, 2016, 09:49:00 AM
Moeen fails to go through with the shot  out caught
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 28, 2016, 09:49:09 AM
Wow what a poor shot from Ali! Ashwin beat him in the air yes, but what a rubbish shot!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 28, 2016, 09:54:14 AM
we are going under here...

I think we are a bit shot to be honest after the effort in the field..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 28, 2016, 10:59:02 AM
Decent ball from ashwin to get rid of stokes. Kohli gets the last word or should I say shhh.

England still 56 behind

Still don't believe this is a spinning wicket, they've produced pretty flat tracks this series
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 28, 2016, 11:23:25 AM
Its been disappointing this test match

I said earlier, I would like to see England win the toss and then see how well India cope. But englands first innings total was below par. And India have come good to be fair.

Also, I mentioned I am not sure about England selecting a 3rd spinner for the sake of it. Both Batty and Ansari haven't looked threatening or aren't really bowling with enough control. England perhaps have missed a trick here with their selections.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 28, 2016, 11:27:08 AM
Its been disappointing this test match

I said earlier, I would like to see England win the toss and then see how well India cope. But englands first innings total was below par. And India have come good to be fair.

Also, I mentioned I am not sure about England selecting a 3rd spinner for the sake of it. Both Batty and Ansari haven't looked threatening or aren't really bowling with enough control. England perhaps have missed a trick here with their selections.

yes.....I think England would be better playing to our strengths, so the extra seamer in and two spinners

that would also reduce the woakload on stokes and Anderson...

you also have to factor in India are superb players of spin
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on November 28, 2016, 11:42:07 AM
Turning pitches or not, unfortunately I think India are better as an entire XI in these conditions than we are. Their spinners are better on these flat surfaces, enough of their batting comes off all the way down on these decks to book in for steady runs.

Our batters struggle to knuckle down and our spinners lack control.

Whilst we are falling a bit short, there are some bright spots - Bairstows batting, the emergence of Stokes as a true all-rounder and Rashids wicket-taking abilities.

Sadly I think we are just not a strong enough XI to take India on in India yet.

Figures may prove me wrong, but my gut feel is that Cook and Root have been inconsistent with their runs, Moeen is not penetrating enough and a little fast and loose with the bat to be in the top 5. Anderson and Woakes seem very steady in these conditions, but lack the wicket-taking ability of Yadav and Shami.

We're not terrible, but it's a tough old battle here.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 28, 2016, 11:45:02 AM
Do agree with most of those sentiments.

I did think England would fair better than NZ for example in these conditions. And I guess they have (first test)...

Look forward to seeing how India get on away. As its been known for a long time they are formidable at home. But away is where their true test awaits.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 28, 2016, 11:48:48 AM
Turning pitches or not, unfortunately I think India are better as an entire XI in these conditions than we are. Their spinners are better on these flat surfaces, enough of their batting comes off all the way down on these decks to book in for steady runs.

Our batters struggle to knuckle down and our spinners lack control.

Whilst we are falling a bit short, there are some bright spots - Bairstows batting, the emergence of Stokes as a true all-rounder and Rashids wicket-taking abilities.

Sadly I think we are just not a strong enough XI to take India on in India yet.

Figures may prove me wrong, but my gut feel is that Cook and Root have been inconsistent with their runs, Moeen is not penetrating enough and a little fast and loose with the bat to be in the top 5. Anderson and Woakes seem very steady in these conditions, but lack the wicket-taking ability of Yadav and Shami.

We're not terrible, but it's a tough old battle here.

Spot on there Cat

do you think that's why England wanted to give Balance as many chances as possible to get runs? because they know he can stick around amounst the stroke players we have

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 28, 2016, 11:57:49 AM
Turning pitches or not, unfortunately I think India are better as an entire XI in these conditions than we are. Their spinners are better on these flat surfaces, enough of their batting comes off all the way down on these decks to book in for steady runs.

Our batters struggle to knuckle down and our spinners lack control.

Whilst we are falling a bit short, there are some bright spots - Bairstows batting, the emergence of Stokes as a true all-rounder and Rashids wicket-taking abilities.

Sadly I think we are just not a strong enough XI to take India on in India yet.

Figures may prove me wrong, but my gut feel is that Cook and Root have been inconsistent with their runs, Moeen is not penetrating enough and a little fast and loose with the bat to be in the top 5. Anderson and Woakes seem very steady in these conditions, but lack the wicket-taking ability of Yadav and Shami.

We're not terrible, but it's a tough old battle here.

couldn't agree more with the Cat, this is pure and simple a case of we haven't done ourselves justice but India are ridiculously strong on home turf and haven't let us.

you have to remember India are unbeaten at home in 16 Test matches since 2012

when India came to England last we won 2 tests by an innings and one by over 250 runs

the true test of a great Test Cricket side these days is the ability to win series away from home


Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 28, 2016, 11:58:45 AM
Turning pitches or not, unfortunately I think India are better as an entire XI in these conditions than we are. Their spinners are better on these flat surfaces, enough of their batting comes off all the way down on these decks to book in for steady runs.

Our batters struggle to knuckle down and our spinners lack control.

Whilst we are falling a bit short, there are some bright spots - Bairstows batting, the emergence of Stokes as a true all-rounder and Rashids wicket-taking abilities.

Sadly I think we are just not a strong enough XI to take India on in India yet.

Figures may prove me wrong, but my gut feel is that Cook and Root have been inconsistent with their runs, Moeen is not penetrating enough and a little fast and loose with the bat to be in the top 5. Anderson and Woakes seem very steady in these conditions, but lack the wicket-taking ability of Yadav and Shami.

We're not terrible, but it's a tough old battle here.

Lacking  in wicket taking  is a an understatement Woakes hasn't taken a wicket  inc this one in his last 3 tests .
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 28, 2016, 12:01:58 PM
Lacking  in wicket taking  is a an understatement Woakes hasn't taken a wicket  inc this one in his last 3 tests .
Come on now, that's just not true! Take those blinkers off.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 28, 2016, 12:02:30 PM
it is an amazing record India have at home


and event he most passionate England fans would not say we are a great side. Good yes, not great.

I think we are doing ok.....yes we are not batting long enough and that's our problem, the bowlers are doing a good job. We got 20 wickets in the last test.

we need to hang in there and battle a bit more thou.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 28, 2016, 12:06:44 PM
Lacking  in wicket taking  is a an understatement Woakes hasn't taken a wicket  inc this one in his last 3 tests .

You got any thoughts on anyone/anything else? As we lost the last test to, and woakes didn't even play in that.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 28, 2016, 12:11:35 PM
We have a decent squad. But we are lacking in application.

Root and cook have not been consistent enough.

Ali is not a top 5 batsmen.

We are an extra batsmen short this tour(duckett and ballance seem mentally shot)

Our seam bowlers seem unfit.



Yes our spinners lack control of the Indians, and it's shown more on the pitches that seem to have a lack of turn.

Both before and currently everyone seems intent that all pitches will be raging turners. And have put all concentration on that. Both from a batsmen and bowlers point of view.


India have been clever here, England have a few half decent spinners, and on raging burners could cause issue.
So they've created non turningnpitches  so their better and far more experience spin attack can dominate the games. 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 28, 2016, 12:15:20 PM
Bother before and currently everyone seems intent that allnptiche will be raging turners. And havebout all concentration on that. Both from a batsmena and bowlers point of view.
Eh?

I think if England played at the top of their game we'd stand a decent chance of beating India away. Anything short of that and in their home conditions they're on top. England certainly not embarrassing themselves out there, but could do better. More top order consistency being the main issue for me.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 28, 2016, 12:19:04 PM
So if Hameed is injured, who's the next cab of the rank?  Who's the best player of spin - no point calling someone who can bat on green tops yet clueless against spin. Recall for alex hales or bell?

Batty and ansari have been extremely poor, would be tempted to call up another spinner or play an extra batsmen given it's the batting that's under performing. Then again England have batting all the way down as it is

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 28, 2016, 12:26:38 PM
Jennings or Gubbins most likely, or perhaps Billings.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 28, 2016, 12:33:02 PM
by all accounts billings is a cracking player of spin so hed be my call and bat him in the middle order as for opening i think you have a choice of root/duckett/ansari.

No i know what you'll say about ansari however he does open for surrey on occasion and i feel at the top of the order would be the best place for him to bat as he can knuckle down and isnt just looking for quick runs/batting with the tail and i think we can all agree hes a better bat than 9/10/11
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on November 28, 2016, 12:44:10 PM
Stick to the same squad I love seeing England get smashed   ;) :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 28, 2016, 12:47:30 PM
we wont call up Hales or Bell they wer'nt in the original squad, could we of done with Bell on this tour?  If he had got a lot of runs for Warwickshire last year maybe, but England have moved forward with younger players....

so if we need another batter yes prob from the Lions in Dubai. Jennings did well last year and Gubbins.....

I see the point about Ansari, don't think he has bowled or batted particularly well so far but there is clearly talent there to bat higher, England selectors see something and are right most of the time these days.

As has been pointed out, we are second favourites in this series, it's about realistic expectations what we can get out of this tour.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 28, 2016, 12:54:02 PM
If Hameed is out of action it really would be a huge call to bring someone in - there maybe a gap but it is only a week - Mumbai test starts Thursday 8th

So you have to make the decision on who, fly someone over, get them acclimatised etc.... let alone they might not have picked up a bat for quite a while

Like ppccopener said the only thing you could say is that the Lions are in Dubai at the moment so if you selected from them then they would have some training under their belts etc... so that includes Jennings, Gubbins and Westley
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 28, 2016, 01:01:19 PM
Jennings, Gubbins and Westley would be in the same boat as Ben Duckett - lacking experience.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 28, 2016, 01:02:18 PM
Aren't a few english lads playing in the BPL?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 28, 2016, 01:30:26 PM
I don't see much point in playing Batty if he's not thought to be a better off-spinner than Ali.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 28, 2016, 02:46:32 PM
broken finger for Hameed by the sounds of it which means he could well be coming home

Jennings, Daniel bell Drummond and gubbins indeed the names in the frame, but has been pointed out, chucked in the middle of a test series is far from ideal

could Balance come back in to the team and open rather than a novice?

I somehow think that's the way it will go
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tom line on November 28, 2016, 02:54:49 PM
I can't see England wanting to open with 2 left handers with Ashwin, so feel Root will rather stay opening after this game and Ballance/Duckett into the middle order, or a lad from the lions tour come in, if that happens Id like to see Bell-Drummond given a go
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 28, 2016, 03:09:43 PM
Come on now, that's just not true! Take those blinkers off.
[/quote

I wished it was mistake  but it's true I am afraid
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 28, 2016, 03:20:29 PM
Lacking  in wicket taking  is a an understatement Woakes hasn't taken a wicket  inc this one in his last 3 tests .

He got gambhir's wicket. Keep your blinkers on. But atleast get the facts right.!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 28, 2016, 03:24:59 PM
yes.....I think England would be better playing to our strengths, so the extra seamer in and two spinners

that would also reduce the woakload on stokes and Anderson...

you also have to factor in India are superb players of spin

Without doubt now Rashid as showed what he's capable of  our two spinners are enough but I think an extra seamer would be under used the way England are  batting  a better option would be another batsman
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 28, 2016, 03:26:49 PM
Missing someone like Mark Wood badly. A 90-95mph reverse swing bowler would've been worth his weight in gold
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 28, 2016, 03:30:33 PM
Yes Stokes Anderson Broad and Wood  dream team
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 28, 2016, 03:39:40 PM
yep we sure are....

but Wood is injury prone and I really really hope i'm wrong but the way his set up is it's not made for a long career

He reminds me very much of Simon Jones.

Jones was blistering quick in his 20's and sadly injury cut short his career. He too had an explosive final release-huge strain on the body.

While it lasted thou it was great. half of the 2005 Ashes was enough to be a legend

 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 28, 2016, 03:44:44 PM
Yes Stokes Anderson Broad and Wood  dream team

No Chris Woakes?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 28, 2016, 03:48:47 PM
He got gambhir's wicket. Keep your blinkers on. But atleast get the facts right.!

Yes one wicket  the returning from injury out of form Gambir so it's one wicket from the last 3 tests not good is it now who has the blinkers on
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 28, 2016, 03:51:06 PM
Yes one wicket  the returning from injury out of form Gambir so it's one wicket from the last 3 tests not good is it now who has the blinkers on
Plus the 3 wickets in his previous test...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 28, 2016, 03:51:41 PM
we wont call up Hales or Bell they wer'nt in the original squad, could we of done with Bell on this tour?  If he had got a lot of runs for Warwickshire last year maybe, but England have moved forward with younger players....

so if we need another batter yes prob from the Lions in Dubai. Jennings did well last year and Gubbins.....

I see the point about Ansari, don't think he has bowled or batted particularly well so far but there is clearly talent there to bat higher, England selectors see something and are right most of the time these days.

As has been pointed out, we are second favourites in this series, it's about realistic expectations what we can get out of this tour.

Didn't Cook play his first test called up from the lions tour and then get a big score so you never know.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 28, 2016, 03:55:02 PM
Yes one wicket  the returning from injury out of form Gambir so it's one wicket from the last 3 tests not good is it now who has the blinkers on

You,

 he's took 4 wickets in his last 3 tests, and you claimed he took zero. Doesn't matter who they are or how he took them. you just can't say he didn't take any cos you have a grudge.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 28, 2016, 03:56:06 PM
yep we sure are....

but Wood is injury prone and I really really hope i'm wrong but the way his set up is it's not made for a long career

He reminds me very much of Simon Jones.

Jones was blistering quick in his 20's and sadly injury cut short his career. He too had an explosive final release-huge strain on the body.

While it lasted thou it was great. half of the 2005 Ashes was enough to be a legend

 :)
I remember seeing that Simon Jones fielding on the boundary injury as soon as went down you knew he was in trouble
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 28, 2016, 04:08:30 PM
You,

 he's took 4 wickets in his last 3 tests, and you claimed he took zero. Doesn't matter who they are or how he took them. you just can't say he didn't take any cos you have a grudge.

Not quite correct though is it i orginally stated no wickets in his last three tests if you inc  this test  he has you  have correctly pointed out taken  just one wicket . But  please don't take my so called blinkered statement as being  bona fide take a look at his bowling figures.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 28, 2016, 04:15:37 PM
Not quite correct though is it i orginally stated no wickets in his last three tests if you inc  this test  he has you  have correctly pointed out taken  just one wicket . But  please don't take my so called blinkered statement take a look at his bowling figures.

(https://s22.postimg.org/bhcb2c2pd/woakes.png)
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on November 28, 2016, 04:22:37 PM
Batting average of 32 and bowling average of 28? I'd take that from my 4th seamer and #8 all day long!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: horseman on November 28, 2016, 04:24:22 PM
Not quite correct though is it i orginally stated no wickets in his last three tests if you inc  this test  he has you  have correctly pointed out taken  just one wicket . But  please don't take my so called blinkered statement as being  bona fide take a look at his bowling figures.

Learning curve sir, he had a really good summer for a lad trying to make his mark in test cricket. He can be counted unlucky to miss out in the last test as he has been a consistent performer in 2016. Im pretty sure jimmy anderson didnt just turn up and take 400+ wickets.

Jake ball would be a replacement but then we wouldnt bat long enough in the ranks.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 28, 2016, 04:25:29 PM
can we look at broads/Anderson's first 5 tests on the subcontinent coz im sure they will have similar returns and are two of England's best bowlers ever in all conditions.. give the lad a break, who would we rather have woakes or finn? woakes all day everyday!!

anyway ball needs to play instead of a spinner in the next test!! pace and height especially if broad aint fit
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 28, 2016, 04:32:41 PM
(https://s17.postimg.org/3uo6htr8v/jimmy.png)
(https://s14.postimg.org/zeue3qprl/broad.png)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 28, 2016, 04:42:37 PM
Learning curve sir, he had a really good summer for a lad trying to make his mark in test cricket. He can be counted unlucky to miss out in the last test as he has been a consistent performer in 2016. Im pretty sure jimmy anderson didnt just turn up and take 400+ wickets.

Jake ball would be a replacement but then we wouldnt bat long enough in the ranks.

Wouldn't  have thought aged 27 he justifys  being  called a lad still  learning  after around 18 tests you should expect better also  ln our 2016 summer Sri Lanka were poor and so we're Pakistan until the sun shone.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Rob580 on November 28, 2016, 04:51:36 PM
Fair to assume we're not all going to agree on Woakes.

Some of us think he's pretty good (myself included)

Some of us don't think he's worth a rub.


Maybe we can all agree he has nice hair?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on November 28, 2016, 05:18:07 PM
India did well on a flat pitch. Must say, England got much better pitches than what New Zealand got for their 3 test matches.
After 9 sessions, England did not manage to win any in my opinion, says a lot how England has played in this test match. India has been ahead in all departments, even the pace bowlers did well with 5 wickets in first inning and 0 for English pacers. Spinners look ordinary compared to Indian spinners. All signs that England not at par.
Buttler playing as a batsman??? You guys dont have anyone better???  :D He is good in limited overs but playing him as a batsman doesnt seem to be wise if england has to put up a fight and for future development of the team.
I am still disappointed with Indian batters even though they managed to get a big lead. One of the top 5 should have got a big 100 on this flat pitch against ordinary bowling.
Huge pressure on Rahane, he is lot better....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 28, 2016, 05:22:24 PM
Javant has been a surprise pick for many. As his domestic stats don't really stand out.
However his performed reasonably well?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on November 28, 2016, 05:25:12 PM
England look to have gone mentally to me, this will be 4-0.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on November 28, 2016, 05:28:08 PM
Javant has been a surprise pick for many. As his domestic stats don't really stand out.
However his performed reasonably well?

It was a surprise. I was expecting Karun Nair, Abhinav Mukund or Shreyas Iyer to get a chance ahead of him, all of them averaging around 50 or higher in first class.
Indian batting potential looks impressive if you add Rahul to that list.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 28, 2016, 05:31:49 PM
Yes that was the general view, that he was a surprise selection
However, his repaid the faith I guess?

Shreyas Iyer --- big things expected of this chap - although I hear his not set the world alight this season domestically at present?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 29, 2016, 05:56:35 AM
Here he comes to save the day!




Chris woakes.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on November 29, 2016, 07:34:17 AM
England getting bounced out in India..... 😑.

The fat lady is walking on stage!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 29, 2016, 07:45:32 AM
The irony of getting bounced out by the Indians. Just goes to show their pace bowlers have out bowled England's
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 29, 2016, 07:56:04 AM
Sorry but you can't play these shots if your finger is broken. Why did he not open yesterday? He had 2 nets during the day and didn't field. Find it very bizarre
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 29, 2016, 07:57:18 AM
50 for an injured hameed! Well batted that man. Well batted.


Just sat here thinking why anyone in that England set up thought duckett was a better choice to open than this guy. He's made for test cricket!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 29, 2016, 07:59:22 AM
Sorry but you can't play these shots if your finger is broken. Why did he not open yesterday? He had 2 nets during the day and didn't field. Find it very bizarre

Maybe it wasn't his choice. He's still 19, maybe the England management were a tad scared to put him out there, and him netting was him trying  to prove them wrong?


Not sure we will ever know mind.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 29, 2016, 08:09:19 AM
Run the first one hard!!
Both sauntered that first half a run there. Sprint damn it. Village.

Well batted root, woakes and hameed.


Not sure buttler was what we needed at that time. But he's probably had a better test match than many Englishman here.



Now can we rock a few out before they kneocl these off?

For as poor as I think England have been in this and the last test, I don't think India have been very special. They should be trouncing us by innings we are playing that badly in there own back yard.

If they have an injury to kohli, pujara or Ashwin. They be screwed.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 29, 2016, 08:28:40 AM
Chris Woakes is rubbish, I can't believe he was allowed to open the bowl... Got him!! Wicket for Woakes  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: jonazax1717 on November 29, 2016, 08:32:23 AM
I really just dont think the english batters are pulling there weight yes the indian`s shouldn't of got a massive lead , so slighty poor bowling but in every test match there is the common factor of a batting collapse , and in bangladesh  , also if the Indians played in england they would get hammmered
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 29, 2016, 08:47:33 AM
brilliant stuff from Hameed broken finger or not

we needed another 100 runs but we are just short in every game to put India under pressure

still we need to battle....and a wicket for SPOTY  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 29, 2016, 09:04:33 AM
(https://s17.postimg.org/3uo6htr8v/jimmy.png)
(https://s14.postimg.org/zeue3qprl/broad.png)
Only just seen these Broad Anderson  comparisions don't  get it Woakes is an allrounder isn't he.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on November 29, 2016, 09:10:44 AM
Funny the fine lines that separate isn't it?  350 in our first innings and knocking India's tail over for 30 runs less and bingo - they're chasing 200.

Difficult to see what England's best bowling line up is - Stokes and Rashid are taking wickets, Woakes, Anderson, Ali are steady and unthreatening. Ansari and Batty a little short of the pace.

Going a bit left-field for the next test, injuries permitting, how about an attack of:

Broad
Ball
Stokes
Moeen
Rashid
Root
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on November 29, 2016, 09:13:45 AM
The irony of getting bounced out by the Indians. Just goes to show their pace bowlers have out bowled England's

Wouldn't class bouncing Woakes and Rashid as better fast bowling.. India have just out thought England. With having the tests earlier against your guys the England management expected similar wickets and planned accordingly. The Indians then went on to produce slow low bouncing wickets that turn eventually.
Cue, England winning 2 tosses and with poor batting and unfortunately poor captaincy/management decisions we end up 2 down..
Some of the batting including "golden boy" Root has been very village. Where as the Indians have just played the surfaces and stuck around whilst still keeping the scores ticking over (helped by poor field settings)  and just let England self implode.. Pretty impressive to be fair from the poisoned dwarf and his team...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 29, 2016, 09:25:18 AM
Pitch still looks flat, don't think another 100 runs would have made any difference. A bit of up and down bounce but hardly turning at all.

Even Patel is spanking it around!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 29, 2016, 09:42:58 AM
Definitely surprised England were "bounced" out in India here.
Shami bowling good heat on a "dead" track?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on November 29, 2016, 09:43:39 AM
I believe it just goes to show that you need quality spinners in India.... England fall very short in the spin category at the moment. The spinners have taken the majority of wickets in all test matches this series so far. The fast bowlers are just there to make up the numbers and take some shine off the ball so the spinners can do their thing
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 29, 2016, 09:57:53 AM
India win by 8 wickets.

Thought cook blamed the loss in the last match on the toss, Can't use that excuse here.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 29, 2016, 10:00:15 AM
I think its feeble to blame losses on the toss. I believe some of the commentary team are also guilty of doing that.

Have to man up and admit the shortcomings. If they don't do that, they will never improve and compete in these conditions?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 29, 2016, 10:15:45 AM
I think its feeble to blame losses on the toss. I believe some of the commentary team are also guilty of doing that.

Have to man up and admit the shortcomings. If they don't do that, they will never improve and compete in these conditions?

exactly right....

I doubt very much anyone will blame the toss from England. England are second best going into this series and India are massively strong at home...

The bowlers have done a great job but we are not going to compete with 270 and 230 on the board

we need big runs.

thank god we have finally got our openers sorted after 2 wasted years. We have to fight back but im afraid the bare facts are not enough runs
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 29, 2016, 10:16:10 AM
So hameed's heading home to get a plate in his finger, surely they'll call up a replacement batsman now.

Thought kohli at the presentation was pretty funny regarding the toss situation

 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mr_Orange on November 29, 2016, 10:24:29 AM
Wonder who the replacement will be? They have Gubbins, Jennings, Alsop and Bell-Drummond with the Lions.

Wouldn't be surprised if they call up a couple to cover the middle order too, with Westley and Clarke also with the Lions and Billings knocking around.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 29, 2016, 10:28:31 AM
I'd be excited by Billings if he were selected

But not sure he would be in the frame?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 29, 2016, 10:31:02 AM
pretty sure it will be one from Dubai and a specialist opener

Gubbings or Jennings.

Its a very tough ask but that is test cricket. Both of those guys would of been in the selectors thoughts I would think originally.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 29, 2016, 10:57:07 AM
It'll be Jennings, surely. Although the prospect of Billings opening the batting in tests is intriguing. Can we call up Hameed Snr as batting coach?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 29, 2016, 11:12:59 AM
Bayliss making no excuses whatsoever on interview.

and sounds like Hameed wanted to tape up his finger and play the last two tests

top lad, we may have lose but found a tough little so and so to open for us....hope fully for a long time

 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on November 29, 2016, 11:25:59 AM
Well done VK and team. 2 more to go and should be easy.
I think playing at home makes lot of difference even if the pitches are not exactly what Indian team would have liked.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 29, 2016, 11:33:41 AM
Wonder who the replacement will be? They have Gubbins, Jennings, Alsop and Bell-Drummond with the Lions.

Wouldn't be surprised if they call up a couple to cover the middle order too, with Westley and Clarke also with the Lions and Billings knocking around.
Now England cannot win the series  think ahead towards our summer give the lions a go  Gubbions or Jennings and also Billings  as the extra batsman lets   see what they can do  not much point picking balance or Duckett.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 29, 2016, 11:45:40 AM
Now England cannot win the series  think ahead towards our summer give the lions a go  Gubbions or Jennings and also Billings  as the extra batsman lets   see what they can do  not much point picking balance or Duckett.

Yes.....but not sure what England will do re Balance and Duckett. I doubt very much they will want to be seen to be discarding either......

Vic Marks has written an article arguing for the fringe players to be sent home. Not sure myself what the right thing to do there would be....

England have to have an eye on the future,Duckett will play in the one dayers later but Balance wont....

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 29, 2016, 11:45:49 AM
I hope the selectors never read this board, and I don't even like the selectors
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Johnny on November 29, 2016, 11:51:38 AM
Not a Ballance fan, but sincerely hope they stick with Duckett. Hope he'll play at 4 in the summer. Let him learn test cricket in more familiar surroundings, with a view to him moving to the top of the order once Cook retires
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 29, 2016, 02:23:36 PM
Yes.....but not sure what England will do re Balance and Duckett. I doubt very much they will want to be seen to be discarding either......

Vic Marks has written an article arguing for the fringe players to be sent home. Not sure myself what the right thing to do there would be....

England have to have an eye on the future,Duckett will play in the one dayers later but Balance wont....

Wouldn't discard them or send them home keep them there that way they will want it more nothing worse than not getting a game specially on tour.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 29, 2016, 02:41:08 PM
Yes.....but not sure what England will do re Balance and Duckett. I doubt very much they will want to be seen to be discarding either......

Vic Marks has written an article arguing for the fringe players to be sent home. Not sure myself what the right thing to do there would be....

England have to have an eye on the future,Duckett will play in the one dayers later but Balance wont....

If they are going to call someone up then Ballance might as well go home now... the 1st warm up for the one-dayers isn't until 10th Jan, so everyone will go home for Christmas anyway (last day of the 5th Test is 20th December).

Duckett can stay and carry on practicing for the one-dayers.

interestingly people saying about Billings - this was announced yesterday - i do realise an England call would change this!

https://twitter.com/SixersBBL/status/803357883928756224?lang=en



Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on November 29, 2016, 03:40:14 PM
England have a problem with left handers and the fact that the Indian spinners bowl far better to left handers Bell-Drummond is the only RH opening bat as I believe Jennings & gubbings are both LH but DBD has on,y played lions international and even though he is a Kent player which normally means in biased that's one hell of a step up.
Billings? Well why the hell not, except he isn't a specialist opnener but he has done very well any time he has played for England.
Compton? Opening maybe as left field but don't think he fits in the dressing room or team environment.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 29, 2016, 04:04:49 PM
Don't think an opener should have to be RHB just to nullify the effect of R Ashwin and J Yadav.

Cook(C)
Ali
Root
Bairstow(W/K)
Billings
Stokes
Buttler
Rashid
Broad
Ball
Anderson

Woakes is injured according to a few reports, if he's fit he takes Ball's place. Billings is said to be 'an exceptional player of spin' so if he plays bat him at #5 to build his confidence. Only three LHBs in top 7.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 29, 2016, 05:08:17 PM
Cook now saying they mis-read the pitch and conditions.

I think that is right, total credit to India, they are Number 1 in their home conditions and deserve 2-0 up......but we have got it wrong.

2 spinners, the best 2 which is rash and Ali and then the extra seamer would of been better.

but credit to India, they are strong at home.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 29, 2016, 05:17:17 PM
well the trouble is, the seamers they have played haven't been threatening?
ie if you look at the india seamers, they seem to have more zip and threat thus far... or am I been too harsh?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 29, 2016, 05:20:31 PM
well the trouble is, the seamers they have played haven't been threatening?
ie if you look at the india seamers, they seem to have more zip and threat thus far... or am I been too harsh?

I think myself Ball should have been in, he has extra pace and height, in place of one of the spinners.

but no, I agree with you, the Indian seamers have got more out of the pitches than we have.

That's a very good point, it's no good sugar coating it......we have been outplayed.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 29, 2016, 05:31:39 PM
Still don't understand why we are playing 6 bowlers to be honest... There's only so many overs in a day, 5 bowlers is plenty!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on November 29, 2016, 05:39:21 PM
Well I think the Indians are just better all round than England in them conditions...

They have 2/3 of the best players in them conditions in the world so they should be really.

However we march on and lets see some fight...

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on November 29, 2016, 05:40:09 PM
Don't think an opener should have to be RHB just to nullify the effect of R Ashwin and J Yadav.

Rory Hamilton-Brown is a bold pick...😉
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Stuey on November 29, 2016, 06:09:15 PM
How did we end up with so many left handed batsman? When I were lad, you had maybe 1 or 2 at most. I blame left handed scissors.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Johnny on November 29, 2016, 06:34:37 PM
All this talk of picking too many bowlers is a nonsense. We had a specialist batsman at 7! The top order simply didn't score enough runs in the first innings
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Gelds on November 29, 2016, 07:07:11 PM
England paid the price for not getting enough runs in the first innings. 400 is a bare minimum in India and we were behind the eight ball from day one. Though the bowlers stuck at it well, especially Stokes and Rashid.
I think India's seamers have proved more threatening than England's as they are skiddy bowlers, rather than hit the deck. This is where Wood is badly missed by England on flatter wickets.
Moving forward I think England will call up Jennings as a replacement for the unlucky Hameed, and we will see Broad back in the side for Batty if fit.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on November 29, 2016, 07:13:32 PM
Its a difficult balance really - everyone fit, we have the resources to play seven batsmen, two all rounders and six bowlers.

Even then, we have been two top five batsmen light for some time now.  And everyone isn't fit.  So replacements are probably required, as is a rethink about the balance of the side.

I wouldn't risk Broad, so I reckon we have two "injury" replacements required, minumum,  and I would be brave and bring three even if Woakes and Zafar are a possibility for the last game, using the argument that if it isn't working there is no harm making changes.  All that we joked about Australia "doing a 90s England" there is something to be said for action.

So, in terms of certainties, we have:

Cook
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler (be harsh to drop him and he showed something first time round)
Rashid
Anderson

In the squad, we also have Ballance, Duckett, Ball and Finn.

We certainly need someone to open, and I would like to see one more top order player brought over.  Contenders? Jennings, Gubbins, Bell-Drummond, Lyth, Robson, Westley, Stoneman, Borthwick, Hales, Roy, Billings with the bat.  If we bring another bowler, I would look at either Bresnan, a good all round option who bowls reverse and cut well, or take a punt on Sam Curran - it'd be an experience for him if nowt else.

What would I do?  At the risk of critique, my side would be:

Cook
Westley
Root
Bairstow
Roy
Stokes
Ali
Buttler
Rashid
Anderson
Ball

I am not saying that Roy and Westley are the best players - long term I'm pro-Duckett - but the former is a good attacking option and a practical dead rubber is as good a chance as any to see how he suits the five day game.  Westley....it'll be intriguing to see him kn division one next year, but his decent off spin adds another bowling option and covers for the loss of a notional bowling resource.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 29, 2016, 07:27:10 PM
All this talk of picking too many bowlers is a nonsense. We had a specialist batsman at 7! The top order simply didn't score enough runs in the first innings
Batty was in the side because they  thought the wicket would turn  on day five and weren't confident how Rashid would bowl.
After the first  innings batting England were always chasing the game.
I think they will look at the wicket in Mumbai and if they feel it will spin now Rasid has shown that he can do the job play him and Moen and. Play the extra batsman even if it they think the wicket will seam
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on November 29, 2016, 07:53:42 PM
The only way England can hide bowling deficiencies is by having top order score big. Cook and Root have to do lot better, the only ones skilled enough to bat at the moment. Then ali, Stokes etc can chip in to that's the score to 400+.
Once you have 400+, the opposition bats under pressure and even ordinary bowlers (rashid and company) will look impressive. Learn from first test. Chopping and changing doesn't help mid series.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 29, 2016, 07:57:12 PM
I personally don't think we need more than 5 bowlers ever. So 3 seamers and two spinners the way to go. If (No Swearing Please) hits the fan bowl root.

I'd rather have root bowl ten overs an innings and a proper batsmen in there  than batty/ansari bowling ten and batting 9/10 or 11.


So if we say our bowlers are Anderson, stokes, ball,  rashid and Ali. And bairstow root and cook are definates. That leaves 3 spots.


I don't think another opener is the solition.... so let root do that.


My side

Cook
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Duckett
Stokes
Buttler
Billings
Rashid
Anderson
Ball


Is ducket mentally shot? Maybe. But give the lad another go. Keep him in the middle order and tell him you back him!
Keep buttler in there as well, if bairstow is shagged he could stump(extreme circumstances only on jobs call) and did okay Ish. Very Ish.

Billings in as to me he is our best spin player(albeit in the shorter formats) and Ashwin is our biggest threat!!


I expect no one to agree with me. Flame suit on.


Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Johnny on November 29, 2016, 08:06:57 PM
@smilley792 as much as that all makes sense I can't help but feel picking someone to only bat at 8 is utterly village
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 29, 2016, 08:09:06 PM
@smilley792 picking someone to only bat at 8 is utterly village

Agree.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 29, 2016, 08:09:12 PM
@smilley792 as much as that all makes sense I can't help but feel picking someone to only bat at 8 is utterly village

But we are village.......
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 29, 2016, 08:11:29 PM
@smilley792 as much as that all makes sense I can't help but feel picking someone to only bat at 8 is utterly village

Proper answer to that.

We don't need a sixth bowler! Ever. And with Ali and stokes both bowlers and batting in the top 6, what else do you do? Our batting is so so poor at moment.

So You either have a specialist number 8, drop stokes or Ali to 8, or carry an extra bowler just for the laugh.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: t2ylo on November 29, 2016, 08:20:37 PM
In short - this is what happens when u do not take your best spinners to India.
The volume of cricket coming thick & fast makes it a squad game like never before.
Batsmen from Cook Hameed Hales Root Roy Billings Jennings & Duckett
All Rounders from Stokes Ali Bairstow Buttler Willey & Woakes
Bowlers from Jimmy, Broad, Wood, Rashid, Ball & Leach

That would be my squad - cannot see how Batty/Finn/Ballance get in ahead of any of the above...
Morgan will be ODI skipper till post Champions Trophy

Missed a big trick not having a decent left arm orthodox a la Panesar

If all were fit I think you only need to decide...
How many spinners?
Who bats 3 & 5 because Root must bat 4!!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on November 29, 2016, 08:27:59 PM
Hales has had the call apparently.









i may have made that up, but watch it happen.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Tailendfielder on November 29, 2016, 08:35:09 PM
I would do the opposite to most.

Bringing a guy up on debut in India in a test series we have no hope of winning when we know we will start our next series with Hameed anyway is pretty harsh on a young guy who will have played little cricket in the last month or two.

I'd open with a Bell for two tests or say to Duckett, go on have another pop. Like a Carberry type selection a few years ago, which always felt like a stop gap for Robson after they convinced him to declare for England.

Some just mentioned Hales, that is just as good.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: uknsaunders on November 29, 2016, 08:38:40 PM
Hales has had the call apparently.









i may have made that up, but watch it happen.

What to find Samits phone number?

I'd be more convinced by the Tubby pie chucker who can at least score some runs in India,  unlike most of the other options. Ansari has made Samit look a world class spin option so far.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 29, 2016, 08:44:29 PM
Samit Patel is a very decent cricketer. I don't care if he is a bit round.

I grew up watching cricket in the 80 s God knows we had loads of barrel chested players back then !   :)

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 29, 2016, 08:50:40 PM
I personally don't think we need more than 5 bowlers ever. So 3 seamers and two spinners the way to go. If (No Swearing Please) hits the fan bowl root.

I'd rather have root bowl ten overs an innings and a proper batsmen in there  than batty/ansari bowling ten and batting 9/10 or 11.


So if we say our bowlers are Anderson, stokes, ball,  rashid and Ali. And bairstow root and cook are definates. That leaves 3 spots.


I don't think another opener is the solition.... so let root do that.


My side

Cook
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Duckett
Stokes
Buttler
Billings
Rashid
Anderson
Ball


Is ducket mentally shot? Maybe. But give the lad another go. Keep him in the middle order and tell him you back him!
Keep buttler in there as well, if bairstow is shagged he could stump(extreme circumstances only on jobs call) and did okay Ish. Very Ish.

Billings in as to me he is our best spin player(albeit in the shorter formats) and Ashwin is our biggest threat!!


I expect no one to agree with me. Flame suit on.

Decent team but  would bring in a speclalist   opener  for Duckett and bat Moen at eight
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 29, 2016, 09:26:40 PM
I'd be more convinced by the Tubby pie chucker who can at least score some runs

The motives for your 3 hour bat against the bowling machine are becoming clearer...  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on November 29, 2016, 09:30:41 PM
Tubby pie chucker

Does nobody else see the irony in this?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 29, 2016, 09:31:48 PM
Does nobody else see the irony in this?

It probably went over Nick's head
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 29, 2016, 09:57:06 PM
We don't have to have a specialist no 8 bat, but having an extra batsman does at least benefit the team, whereas having Gareth Batty as specialist fine leg doesn't. If we want solidity to the top order, Moeen is not the answer, so he moves back down the order and does a proper bowling shift rather than filling in.

Cook
Insert opener from lions here
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Insert promising middle order prospect here
Buttler
Moeen
Woakes/Broad/Ball
Rashid
Anderson

Jog the odd batting spot around if needed/depending on who comes in, but that looks a lot more logical to me. Only downside is I imagine Moeen would take being dropped back down to 8 quite badly...

edited because I can't count.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Johnny on November 29, 2016, 10:05:55 PM
@edge ...you've picked 12?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Johnny on November 29, 2016, 10:11:07 PM
Really do feel like the selectors have made a Horlicks of this!

Personally I don't know why Mo leapfrogged YJB and Stokes in the first place. His ton in the 1st test makes it look a good decision, but now moving him back again seems preposterous. The fact that YJB is now batting 5 anyway makes it look even more absurd.

Mo at 8 as a bowling all-rounder makes the team look more balanced to me, but still feels wrong now that he's had a stint at 3,4,5
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 29, 2016, 10:34:28 PM
@edge ...you've picked 12?
🙈 dammit, all these bowlers confusing me! Lose one of the 3 specialist seamers.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Johnny on November 30, 2016, 06:15:45 AM
@edge you only picked 2 specialist seamers..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on November 30, 2016, 07:35:11 AM
@edge you only picked 2 specialist seamers..
I edited it to take one out, there's 11 now.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ScottParko on November 30, 2016, 08:50:28 AM
No was batting too low down not long ago at 8 and now he's batting too high!

News of replacementS in 10 minutes! That capital letter being the key part. Rumour has it Ansari is a goner due to his back problem.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 30, 2016, 08:54:31 AM
BBC have Jennings being called up today.

may be just there as cover someone how I cant see England throwing a new player straight into a test.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on November 30, 2016, 09:03:01 AM
Another left hander...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ScottParko on November 30, 2016, 09:24:45 AM
Duckett has tweeted asking if it's cold in England! Looks like he's going home!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mr_Orange on November 30, 2016, 09:42:27 AM
Duckett has tweeted asking if it's cold in England! Looks like he's going home!

I saw this, and he's replied now saying it was only because of the Snapchats he was seeing, not that he was going home.
Great time to put up something like that Ben haha!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on November 30, 2016, 09:46:52 AM
Think Duckett Should stay off twitter, clearly not the smartest person. He should retweet that reverse sweep pic again  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on November 30, 2016, 09:51:27 AM
Basically a couple of batters aren't firing and the 3rd spinner is broken. From that situation, in India, it's almost impossible to balance your XI up, unless one of those players comes good.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 30, 2016, 09:52:30 AM
he's clearly got a bit of personality which might help him going forward

I think he has a bright future long term. looking at Athertons article on Sky yesterday, he has Duckett back in the team opening or middle with sam billings in also, Root up top if Duckett goes 4

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 30, 2016, 09:53:17 AM
Dawson and jennings in for hameed and ansari



Did anyone in here predict Dawson? I can't remember reading it
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 30, 2016, 09:56:59 AM
Dawson and jennings in for hameed and ansari



Did anyone in here predict Dawson? I can't remember reading it

yes mentioned in you go back far enough before the series...  but in truth i'm not sure we have 3 high class spinners in the Country to pick from
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 30, 2016, 09:59:43 AM
yes mentioned in you go back far enough before the series...  but in truth i'm not sure we have 3 high class spinners in the Country to pick from

I was referring to call ups and replacements.

People on twitter already slagging off his Fc figures
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 30, 2016, 10:01:13 AM
Don't see why England don't pick an extra batsmen?

So the bowling attack could be:

Anderson
Stokes
Ball
Ali
Rashid

and then 6 batters:
Cook
Root
Bairstow
Butler
Duckett?
another
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 30, 2016, 10:05:03 AM
I was referring to call ups and replacements.

People on twitter already slagging off his Fc figures

it's the third spinner that has caused us problems here hasn't it.

rash and Ali are shoe-in's. its trying to get the third one in who is good enough

as ive said I think we would be better playing another seamer. Or as wasted mentions below...maybe even an extra batsman
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: wasted_talent on November 30, 2016, 10:08:22 AM
Interesting to note, that even Ravi Shashtri suggested England should play the extra batsmen...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mr_Orange on November 30, 2016, 10:14:40 AM
Calling up Jennings surely means he plays. Agree that we should have called up an extra batsman rather than another allrounder.

Would imagine the next test will look like:
Cook
Jennings
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Anderson
Ball

Batty and Ali bowled 35 overs combined in the last test. May as well just have Ali bowl those overs and add in a bit of Joe Root and stick with what works. Allows the seamers to rotate more especially with Cook having more faith in Rashid now.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on November 30, 2016, 10:19:25 AM
Possibly looking at Dawson to provide a steady economical bit of control, rather than rip through the side, although I think he might be a pleasant surprise. There's something about him, and maybe he will surprise everyone given a turning surface - he's apparently a very bright, thinking cricketer and I think Farbrace rates him from what he's seen.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on November 30, 2016, 10:19:36 AM
I would do the opposite to most.

Bringing a guy up on debut in India in a test series we have no hope of winning when we know we will start our next series with Hameed anyway is pretty harsh on a young guy who will have played little cricket in the last month or two.

I'd open with a Bell for two tests or say to Duckett, go on have another pop. Like a Carberry type selection a few years ago, which always felt like a stop gap for Robson after they convinced him to declare for England.

Some just mentioned Hales, that is just as good.
now England can't win the series
Bringing the lions  into the team is a tremendous  opportunity for them or Billings to show what they can do  Bell is a backward step and there's little point  in this series exposing Duckett to The bowling of Ashwin.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 30, 2016, 11:08:18 AM
Calling up Jennings surely means he gets thrown in - however is it opening with Cook or does Root open and you ease him in lower down the order, as he hasn't played etc...

On the Dawson call up - as much as i agree that Dawson has something about him - if we are replacing our third spinner and they want a left armer - surely you have to call up Jack Leach don't you?

I think the side picks itself again really - due to the selectors making a muck up of it from the start -

Cook
Jennings
Root
Mo
Bairstow
Stokes
Butler
Woakes
Rashid
Anderson
Ball/Dawson (Dawson not batting at 11 obviously) - dependent on the pitch in Mumbai - personally i would go with Ball

Considering previous games you can't pick Batty, Duckett or Ballance so you aren't left with much choice.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on November 30, 2016, 11:36:50 AM
Could it be possible, looking into the further with a lots of ifs and buts that we could have three openers for 2 spots and cook misses out?

If his form drops and has stepped down from skipper with hammeed proving himself at this level pretty much already and Jennings comes in and does really wel that by the end of the English summer our openers will be hammeed and Jennings?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 30, 2016, 11:41:51 AM
Isn't Jennings a Saffa?
The decision to select him becomes clear, old habits die hard and all...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 30, 2016, 11:45:34 AM
Isn't Jennings a Saffa?
The decision to select him becomes clear, old habits die hard and all...

Renshaw was unavailable....  ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 30, 2016, 11:46:05 AM
Renshaw was unavailable....  ;) ;) ;)

he's more English !!!    :) :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 30, 2016, 11:47:44 AM
he's more English !!!    :) :)

precisely my point!

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 30, 2016, 11:52:54 AM
precisely my point!



love it !!!  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Rob580 on November 30, 2016, 12:00:40 PM
Dawson? I just don't get it at all I'm afraid.

I'm all for picking on character, but surely you have to be a good enough standard of player to warrant a place in the squad first? He's not even the best spinner at Hampshire, and surely if you're picking 3 spinners (One who genuinely classifies as an allrounder, and one who can certainly hold a bat) then your third spinner you can afford to pick purely on spin bowling merit, not having to take into account his batting, fielding, his banter, if he's a good bloke, what school he went to, whether he mixes the drinks just right....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on November 30, 2016, 03:21:50 PM
Dawson is a shocking selection. Ansari was exposed as nothing more than bits and pieces. Now we call up an even more bits and pieces replacement. Dawson's bowling is nothing more than average.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on November 30, 2016, 03:26:18 PM
Would Samit Patel in hindsight(wonderful for us amateur selectors on forums) have been a idea.

seriously.....

 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 30, 2016, 03:35:17 PM
Jack Leach should have gone IMHO

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on November 30, 2016, 04:33:49 PM
We didn't need another spinner.

We have Rashid and Ali. More than enough(not saying there good enough though) batty as back up. We need no more.


They should have callled up two batsmen.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on November 30, 2016, 04:38:42 PM
We didn't need another spinner.

We have Rashid and Ali. More than enough(not saying there good enough though) batty as back up. We need no more.


They should have callled up two batsmen.

thats the exact reason Leach should have gone in the 1st place (give the youngster the experience of touring the sub-continent) and that they should have taken an extra batsman on the tour

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 30, 2016, 04:42:21 PM
Jack Leach should have gone IMHO

I like an opinion expressed humbly.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on November 30, 2016, 07:30:57 PM
Jennings in my view should have gone originally instead of Duckett.

Jennings was pretty much the stand out in the top division last year in a poor Durham side.

Very good player who score runs all season against everybody.

Good player this lad maybe not English but hey he picked and I wish him well as he playing for his/my country.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 30, 2016, 09:42:12 PM
Woakes is likely to be fit for the next Test, and I fully expect him to play. Going forward I'd love us to be regularly fielding 4 seamers and 2 spinners.  If two of these are genuine all-rounders, worth their places for their batting, then why not have six bowlers? You don't 'need' them? Rubbish! That's like saying the lower order don't need to be able to bat because the top order should do their job.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Tailendfielder on November 30, 2016, 09:47:37 PM
now England can't win the series
Bringing the lions  into the team is a tremendous  opportunity for them or Billings to show what they can do  Bell is a backward step and there's little point  in this series exposing Duckett to The bowling of Ashwin.

Not really bothered who, Duckett/Hales/Lyth. My only thought is, Jennings scores a hundred. Does well, you've either then got to drop Hameed or drop the guy who just scored a hundred. Which is why I suggested a stop gap.

The flip side of that, Jennings has got a really tough job. Go to India, best team in the world at present, mid way through a series 2 - 0 down. If he fails, you've knocked his confidence. If you wanna blood a young lad I would prefer to do it against a weaker test side in England.

Either way is irrelevant now, hope he does well.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 30, 2016, 09:51:06 PM
Don't pick Jennings in case he scores a hundred?  :o
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Tailendfielder on November 30, 2016, 09:51:45 PM
Don't pick Jennings in case he scores a hundred?  :o

That is not what I said. I said I hope he does well. I think its a tough debut
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 30, 2016, 10:01:28 PM
That is not what I said. I said I hope he does well. I think its a tough debut

If he does well, then Hameed will have to wait his turn to get back in rhe side,  Or bat down the order. It would be a nice problem to have.

Of course it will be tough. It was tough for Hameed and Duckett.



Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Johnny on November 30, 2016, 10:14:13 PM
If Jennings performs then stick him in the middle order once Hameed is fit again
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 30, 2016, 10:24:07 PM
I've not seen Keaton Jennings bat.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ScottParko on November 30, 2016, 11:01:03 PM
If Jennings performs then stick him in the middle order once Hameed is fit again

Why?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on December 01, 2016, 12:47:25 AM
Jack Leach should have gone IMHO

Evidently Chris Rogers stated that Leach is not quite ready mentally yet, whatever that means!?


Could it be possible, looking into the further with a lots of ifs and buts that we could have three openers for 2 spots and cook misses out?

If his form drops and has stepped down from skipper with hammeed proving himself at this level pretty much already and Jennings comes in and does really wel that by the end of the English summer our openers will be hammeed and Jennings?

If Jennings proves a worthy and talented top order batsman, then how about we have the top 4 of Cook, Hameed, Jennings, Root once Hameed is repaired?
Why at him anywhere but the top order! We have been saying that we only seem to have 3 of the top 4 we are happy with at the moment? So IF Jennings is decent, we can ink in the following:

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Ali
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes (or Butler/Duckett if batsman needed)
Wood/Ball (if pace) Rashid/Dawson/Leach,etc (if spin)
Broad
Anderson
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: billyb on December 01, 2016, 01:04:34 AM
Say Jennings does well, wouldn't Hameed, Jennings, Cook, Root make more sense?
This will be sacrilege to some of you, but before you get your swords out...

Cook is an excellent batsman but has struggled at the top of the order lately, yet his strike rate has risen significantly in the past year. He knows his game very well, and perhaps it is time (with an eye to the future), to settle into a more comfortable berth slightly lower down the order where he can pile on the runs (and add some spine), while Hameed and Jennings become the partnership for the future.

Regardless, this relies on Jennings doing well.

I just wonder if we are getting the most out of Cook right now- if he stays captain after this series then him dropping down the order might make sense, whilst if he goes then opening makes more sense...

Hameed
Jennings
Cook
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Buttler
Woakes/Wood/Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on December 01, 2016, 09:48:56 AM
Moving Cook to three is sensible, you could have root at three and cook at 4 too.
Fingers crossed Jennings does well, he has a very good technique to the quicks. No idea about spin though
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 01, 2016, 09:54:59 AM
Not really bothered who, Duckett/Hales/Lyth. My only thought is, Jennings scores a hundred. Does well, you've either then got to drop Hameed or drop the guy who just scored a hundred. Which is why I suggested a stop gap.

The flip side of that, Jennings has got a really tough job. Go to India, best team in the world at present, mid way through a series 2 - 0 down. If he fails, you've knocked his confidence. If you wanna blood a young lad I would prefer to do it against a weaker test side in England.

Either way is irrelevant now, hope he does well.

Without doubt it's a tough ask but England found
 Cook by  calling him up from the lions to open in India as a replacement for Trescothick
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 01, 2016, 10:03:33 AM
I think everyone"s getting way ahead of themselves again!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 01, 2016, 10:09:46 AM
I think everyone"s getting way ahead of themselves again!

isn't that what the 'CBF Selection Panel' is all about  :D :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 01, 2016, 10:12:21 AM

Without doubt it's a tough ask but England found
 Cook by  calling him up from the lions to open in India as a replacement for Trescothick

They didn't really find him. Everyone knew the openers spot had his name on it once there was a vacancy.

11000 runs later, I'm reading he might not actually be an opening bat!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 01, 2016, 10:34:17 AM
They didn't really find him. Everyone knew the openers spot had his name on it once there was a vacancy.

11000 runs later, I'm reading he might not actually be an opening bat!

Well he still had to prove he could step up!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: cricketbadger on December 01, 2016, 11:49:53 AM
11000 runs later and people now decide Cook is a number 3. Mind blown
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 01, 2016, 12:08:36 PM
I think it's more a case of how so we get 11000 test runs in if we have hammeed and Jennings playing well, cook is probably the better player to move than the other two!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 01, 2016, 12:23:19 PM
New levels!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 01, 2016, 12:26:08 PM
"I'm going to do something different with the batting order this week, chaps..."

We've all been there!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 01, 2016, 12:36:44 PM
i think its a good thing tbh, if we have 3 people for 2 spaces and an issue at 3 (which we have always had) why not use the most experienced guy in the team to plug a gap, yes ideally cook would open but if you have jennings and hammed who could well be our opening partnership for years to come and playing well why not keep them together and move cook.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 01, 2016, 12:45:02 PM
i think its a good thing tbh, if we have 3 people for 2 spaces and an issue at 3 (which we have always had) why not use the most experienced guy in the team to plug a gap, yes ideally cook would open but if you have jennings and hammed who could well be our opening partnership for years to come and playing well why not keep them together and move cook.

Let's wait until we're sure we've got one first, eh? Before we start wondering what we'll do if we've got two?

"England surplus opener problem"? I can't wait!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 01, 2016, 01:00:14 PM
i can see it.... in my crystal ball....

1 year from now.... 1st Ashes Test November 2017.... walking out to bat Hameed and Jennings....

with Cook, Root, Bairstow and Stokes to follow....

600-4 declared later.... lol

 ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 01, 2016, 01:01:45 PM
"What a middle-order" etc.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ScottParko on December 01, 2016, 01:04:31 PM
Lions cruising to victory today! Jennings 90* whilst skippering was the last update!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 01, 2016, 01:11:45 PM
Lions cruising to victory today! Jennings 90* whilst skippering was the last update!

I seem to remember Ben Duckett doing rather well for the Lions last year.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: jamielsn15 on December 01, 2016, 02:11:00 PM
Love George dobell's article on cricinfo; that he (jennings) is left handed isn't ideal...but 'ideal' left this tour a while ago.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 01, 2016, 02:17:56 PM
Love George dobell's article on cricinfo; that he (jennings) is left handed isn't ideal...but 'ideal' left this tour a while ago.



Ive just read that by co incidence. i'm not sure his inference is Andy Flowers influence is too strong in the team(thru the Lions), or that is the right way into the team, or because Bayliss does not see much County cricket.......the only real way into the team.

anyway...he seems to think it's being moulded by Flower still....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: jamielsn15 on December 01, 2016, 02:19:10 PM
Ive just read that by co incidence. i'm not sure his inference is Andy Flowers influence is too strong in the team(thru the Lions), or that is the right way into the team, or because Bayliss does not see much County cricket.......the only real way into the team.

anyway...he seems to think it's being moulded by Flower still....

And you can probably add to that the lack of faith in the selectors...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 01, 2016, 04:43:31 PM
nice confidence booster for Jennings.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38173524 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38173524)

interesting he is staying in Dubai for the 2nd game on Saturday, so that means he won't get to India until Saturday night/Sunday before playing Thursday.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 01, 2016, 05:07:37 PM
a ton is a ton I suppose, even if it is against the UAE

the forum is convinced he is going to play?  not open with root and bring in a middle order player ?  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on December 01, 2016, 05:42:17 PM
i can see it.... in my crystal ball....

1 year from now.... 1st Ashes Test November 2017.... walking out to bat Hameed and Jennings....

with Cook, Root, Bairstow and Stokes to follow....

600-4 declared later.... lol

 ;) ;) ;) ;)

thats score is possible only if they bat like Strauss, Bell, Trott and KP or these 4 get younger somehow and come back  :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on December 01, 2016, 05:46:19 PM
Moving Cook to three is sensible, you could have root at three and cook at 4 too.
Fingers crossed Jennings does well, he has a very good technique to the quicks. No idea about spin though

Wohhh!!! Thats suicidal. This has been tried multiple times with SRT, Lara etc and their performance dropped significantly.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on December 01, 2016, 06:49:41 PM
Wohhh!!! Thats suicidal. This has been tried multiple times with SRT, Lara etc and their performance dropped significantly.

When did Lara and Sachin open in test cricket?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 01, 2016, 06:59:26 PM
Moving Cook to three is sensible, you could have root at three and cook at 4 too.
Fingers crossed Jennings does well, he has a very good technique to the quicks. No idea about spin though

Cook is a proven opening bat that's were he needs to be leave the middle order to the shot makers.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on December 01, 2016, 07:16:18 PM
Cook is a proven opening bat that's were he needs to be leave the middle order to the shot makers.


Yes, he's done okay opening the innings. He has 10,307 runs at an average of 46.22 with 51 50's and 28 100's.
Cook also has a very decent record batting at 3. He has 578 runs at an average of 52.55 with 2 50's and 2 100's.

His strike rate is roughly the same in both these positions, at around 46.

However, statistically he should bat at 7 as he hasn't ever been dismissed batting here in Tests, and has a strike rate of just under 57!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 01, 2016, 07:23:57 PM

Yes, he's done okay opening the innings. He has 10,307 runs at an average of 46.22 with 51 50's and 28 100's.
Cook also has a very decent record batting at 3. He has 578 runs at an average of 52.55 with 2 50's and 2 100's.

His strike rate is roughly the same in both these positions, at around 46.

However, statistically he should bat at 7 as he hasn't ever been dismissed batting here in Tests, and has a strike rate of just under 57!

Awesome stats WW

Well thats that sorted, Woakes to open Cookie slips down with a bit of trundle throw in 'genuine allrounder'
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on December 01, 2016, 07:28:10 PM
Awesome stats WW

Well thats that sorted, Woakes to open Cookie slips down with a bit of trundle throw in 'genuine allrounder'

With the ball Cook averages 7, with an economy of 2.33 and a strike rate of 18.
He'd run through batting orders for fun!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on December 01, 2016, 07:55:49 PM
When did Lara and Sachin open in test cricket?

They did not. the point was - changing batting position of batters who have batted in particular spot for a very very long time has not worked in past.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Tailendfielder on December 01, 2016, 08:03:58 PM
Feels vetry similar to the gerrard lampard thing. Shoe horn everyone in.

The reality is the kid hast played yet. We have not got a great record of unearthing openners in test cricket right now. I would just wait see and dont have sich high expectations. As mentioned its a tough ask for the most talented cricketer.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Loc1215 on December 01, 2016, 08:15:21 PM
If Jennings does show he is good enough then I think Hameed has showed the versatility(admittedly only in a few innings) to bat at 3 . Probably wouldn't be a popular decision though for the reason others have already stated.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on December 01, 2016, 08:30:40 PM
God forbid an opener could bat at three. I mean it has never worked before, other than when cook was 3, or Root at 3 or Michael Vaughan at 3 or Mark Butcher at 3.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 01, 2016, 08:36:01 PM
God forbid an opener could bat at three. I mean it has never worked before, other than when cook was 3, or Root at 3 or Michael Vaughan at 3 or Mark Butcher at 3.

Did Cook bat at 3? I don't remember!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 01, 2016, 08:44:09 PM

Yes, he's done okay opening the innings. He has 10,307 runs at an average of 46.22 with 51 50's and 28 100's.
Cook also has a very decent record batting at 3. He has 578 runs at an average of 52.55 with 2 50's and 2 100's.

His strike rate is roughly the same in both these positions, at around 46.

However, statistically he should bat at 7 as he hasn't ever been dismissed batting here in Tests, and has a strike rate of just under 57!
Seem to recall him hitting sixes batting at seven
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 01, 2016, 09:02:54 PM
So... 7. Cook 8. Buttler 9. Billings...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on December 01, 2016, 09:49:24 PM
Did Cook bat at 3? I don't remember!

Cook also has a very decent record batting at 3. He has 578 runs at an average of 52.55 with 2 50's and 2 100's.

His strike rate is roughly  46.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on December 02, 2016, 10:52:46 AM
If Jennings does perform well enough then that would be a very nice, but surprising and unexpected problem to have!
But back on the subject of the next Test, I would look at team similar to...

Cook
Jennings
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Ball
Anderson
Title: Next test Squad for the 3RD Test against India
Post by: jonazax1717 on December 02, 2016, 07:26:31 PM
1.Cook
2. Jennings
3. Root
4. Ali
5 Stokes
6 Bairstow
7 Jos Butler
8  Liam Dawson
9   Adil Rashid
10. Chris woakes   
11. Jimmy Anderson

Probably wont happen , what would your squad be ?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on December 02, 2016, 08:37:53 PM
For me, Ali is still too high at 4, and 3 spinners isn;t really working for us - I would prefer:

1.Cook
2. Duckett
3. Jennings
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Jos Butler
8. Ali
9. Rashid
10. Ball   
11. Anderson

Get Duckett in against the seamers as soon as possible, give Woakes a rest for this one and Jimmy for the next (they're pretty much interchangeable as non-wicket taking, holding bowlers), Ball must be itching for a go, and Rooty can't be any worse as the 3rd spinner, bowling perhaps 12 overs a day.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ScottParko on December 03, 2016, 02:52:27 AM
For me, Ali is still too high at 4, and 3 spinners isn;t really working for us - I would prefer:

1.Cook
2. Duckett
3. Jennings
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Jos Butler
8. Ali
9. Rashid
10. Ball   
11. Anderson

Get Duckett in against the seamers as soon as possible, give Woakes a rest for this one and Jimmy for the next (they're pretty much interchangeable as non-wicket taking, holding bowlers), Ball must be itching for a go, and Rooty can't be any worse as the 3rd spinner, bowling perhaps 12 overs a day.

I get your point regarding Duckett but then why put an opener at 3 for that reason? Seems like your just getting people in without thinking about it.

As it goes, my team (maybe cynically) that I expect to be named is
Cook
Duckett
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Broad
Rashid
Anderson
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ScottParko on December 03, 2016, 02:53:36 AM
Of course as a Durham lad I'd hope Jennings gets the game even if it does mean we could miss him in the summer if he goes well!!!

Just realised I've dropped Stokes down a place too!

I'd also like to see Ball get a go, but can't see it! Even if they were going to rotate a bowler Finn would get the gig probably even though he probably doesn't deserve it!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 03, 2016, 04:40:23 PM
This is probably why hales wasn't picked.


https://www.facebook.com/theroarsports/videos/10153812641656442/ (https://www.facebook.com/theroarsports/videos/10153812641656442/)


Lol.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: cheese on December 03, 2016, 04:52:12 PM
Duckett just got dropped and shouldn't come back in.

My team would be:

Cook (c)
Jennings
Root
Bairstow (wk)
Ali
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: brokenbat on December 03, 2016, 05:23:17 PM
This is probably why hales wasn't picked.


https://www.facebook.com/theroarsports/videos/10153812641656442/ (https://www.facebook.com/theroarsports/videos/10153812641656442/)


Lol.


wow...feel bad for the guy! roughed up by melbourne uni guys
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: brokenbat on December 03, 2016, 05:26:15 PM
wow...feel bad for the guy! roughed up by melbourne uni guys

also, someone needs to be fired for painting those crooked crease lines
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on December 04, 2016, 02:24:20 AM
If Jennings does perform well enough then that would be a very nice, but surprising and unexpected problem to have!
But back on the subject of the next Test, I would look at team similar to...

Cook
Jennings
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Ball
Anderson

Is Jennings just another player not good enough for SA?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on December 04, 2016, 05:29:37 AM
Is Jennings just another player not good enough for SA?

You mean similar to Renshaw? Not sure really. I don't rate Elgar as an opening bat for SA. But just like Renshaw, I guess Jennings just wants to play for who he wants to play for!
And I doubt Jennings could have predicted that an opportunity like this would have presented itself when it did! But it could be fate!
Is Jennings good enough to cement his place? Unsure yet!! But it is the best chance he has and could have wished for! If he proves himself then I really believe that there is a place in the top 4 for him. By chance we have 3 players now, as it doesn't look like Duckett is quite ready for this format at this level yet, so his loss could be Jenning's gain?

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on December 04, 2016, 06:13:26 AM
Is Jennings just another player not good enough for SA?

 :D :D :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on December 04, 2016, 08:05:00 AM
You mean similar to Renshaw? Not sure really. I don't rate Elgar as an opening bat for SA. But just like Renshaw, I guess Jennings just wants to play for who he wants to play for!
And I doubt Jennings could have predicted that an opportunity like this would have presented itself when it did! But it could be fate!
Is Jennings good enough to cement his place? Unsure yet!! But it is the best chance he has and could have wished for! If he proves himself then I really believe that there is a place in the top 4 for him. By chance we have 3 players now, as it doesn't look like Duckett is quite ready for this format at this level yet, so his loss could be Jenning's gain?

No not really similar to Renshaw at all as Renshaw didn't really have a choice after moving here at such a young age and signing a contract with Qld straight out of school and made his debut in Australia  :D :D :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: 19reading87 on December 04, 2016, 09:31:01 AM
Duckett just got dropped and shouldn't come back in.

My team would be:

Cook (c)
Jennings
Root
Bairstow (wk)
Ali
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

Bairstow to keep and bat 4?? 🤔🤔🤔
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on December 06, 2016, 01:37:43 PM
TMS doing Jennings all sorts of favours here... https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/806046687001276416 (https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/806046687001276416)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on December 06, 2016, 01:42:01 PM
TMS doing Jennings all sorts of favours here... https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/806046687001276416 (https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/806046687001276416)

Maybe he took Ben Duckett's advice:
"if in doubt, reverse sweep" :-[
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 06, 2016, 01:52:21 PM
interesting 1st press conference as well....

""At the moment, I'm feeling very comfortable and very English, despite my accent."....

http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12173/10685175/keaton-jennings-says-ben-stokes-has-helped-break-ice-with-england-team-mates (http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12173/10685175/keaton-jennings-says-ben-stokes-has-helped-break-ice-with-england-team-mates)

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 06, 2016, 02:01:14 PM
interesting 1st press conference as well....

""At the moment, I'm feeling very comfortable and very English, despite my accent."....

[url]http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12173/10685175/keaton-jennings-says-ben-stokes-has-helped-break-ice-with-england-team-mates[/url] ([url]http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12173/10685175/keaton-jennings-says-ben-stokes-has-helped-break-ice-with-england-team-mates[/url])




not sure what being 'very english' means, perhaps he likes fish and chips and a nice cup of tea.

Difficult area who qualifies for England because whatever option someone has(me for example) you could quote another player who may not qualify to play for us under different circumstances.

to highlight what I mean, I don't think if you gave played representative cricket for a Country as an adult, you should be able to 'switch' Countries.....

So take the example of Jonathan Trott, one of my favourite England players, to my knowledge, he played for SA U-19'S...but he has an English parent. Robin Smith also played U-19 or U-18 i believe and he's up there as a favourite too.

tricky subject.  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on December 06, 2016, 05:05:50 PM
Difficult, isn't it.  In the recent examples, you have Renshaw, who is as Yorkshire as they come but has grown up in Australia from the age of ten (though from what I hear does not hold an Australian passport), and Jennings, who has played age group cricket for South Africa but who has a British mother and strong roots here.  Neither is massively offensive - they both have close ties to the country they have chosen to represent, so its hard to judge them adversely.

By comparison, some in the past, like KP, Symonds and Trott, who were going back through the generations to qualify, look more cynical.

As a whole, I think cricket has things more or less right - certainly compared to Rugby Union, where most national sides take their colours less as a badge of allegiance and more as a loose starting point for negotiations.  In recent years, Ireland and Scotland have openly recruited from Super Rugby to fill their problem positions on a three year residency farce, whilst Australia and the great All Blacks use the same opportunities to fill out their sides with numerous pacific islanders. 

The recent Australian tourists had 13 (if you include injury call ups):

Tonga - Latu, Timani
Fiji - Naivalu, Kerevi, Naiyaravoro, Speight, Kuridrani
South Africa - Haylett-Petty
Zimbabwe - Pocock
New Zealand - Houston, Cooper, Faulkner, Lealifano
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on December 06, 2016, 05:48:47 PM
By comparison, some in the past, like KP, Symonds and Trott, who were going back through the generations to qualify, look more cynical.

KP has a British mother so he didn't need to go back far.
Trott did have to go back as his family were British decent. Symonds, although he was born in Birmingham and I believe he had British adoptive parents? His real parents were a mix of West Indian and Scandinavian? But as he moved with his adoptive parents to Aus at an early age. It is a real shame about Symonds - I used to enjoy his style of play and if he had of knuckled down then I believe that he could have become a brilliant all-rounder of the game! But he seemed to struggle controlling his aggression which did lead to controversy on a number of occasions. I always thought he wasted his natural talent!  :(

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on December 06, 2016, 06:40:57 PM
Trott's Dad is English.

Symmonds struggled to cope with being a pro sportsman and his love of going out in the lash.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 06, 2016, 07:13:13 PM
Trott and KP indeed had at least one English parent.

Symonds whatever fishing trips he went on or nightclubs he visited will always be my favourite Birmingham Aussie for shoulder barging a nude streaker during a one day match in Oz.

The streaker hit the floor heavy and was lucky to still have his dangly bits in tact.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on December 06, 2016, 07:19:29 PM
There is an error in your arguments here gents - both Trott and KP had parents who held British passports - but as far as I'm aware, both had the documents on a hereditary basis, rather than being born and bred as were the others mentioned.

Symonds was a favourite of mine too Pete - so much talent.  I remember watching the 2005 ODI where the whole crowd were heckling the Aussies with "your best player is a Brummie"
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 06, 2016, 07:27:53 PM
There is an error in your arguments here gents - both Trott and KP had parents who held British passports - but as far as I'm aware, both had the documents on a hereditary basis, rather than being born and bred as were the others mentioned.

Symonds was a favourite of mine too Pete - so much talent.  I remember watching the 2005 ODI where the whole crowd were heckling the Aussies with "your best player is a Brummie"

Ah....well you may well be right.  :) I def thought KP had a parent born here.

But as u mentioned cricket of all the sports has got it pretty much right. I don't particularly agree with the Kepler weasels situation or ..stand to be corrected but Imran Tahir I think has played for two different Countries too....but on the whole the qualification for cricket here seems pretty fair generally speaking.

I often get ribbed  by my Pakistan and Indian mates who do things very differently when it comes to representing the national side goes thou
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 06, 2016, 07:50:31 PM
The Curran brothers is an interesting one for me. Both brilliant cricketers and probably future England stars.

Both of them brought up in Zimbabwe and SA until 2012 so Tom only completed his residency qualification in October but because Sam was born in Northampton he doesn't need to.

They are brothers  :( :(
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 06, 2016, 08:42:22 PM
Comedy from Joe Root....

https://twitter.com/snapperhead333/status/806169656494960641

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on December 06, 2016, 09:05:48 PM
Ah....well you may well be right.  :) I def thought KP had a parent born here.

But as u mentioned cricket of all the sports has got it pretty much right. I don't particularly agree with the Kepler weasels situation or ..stand to be corrected but Imran Tahir I think has played for two different Countries too....but on the whole the qualification for cricket here seems pretty fair generally speaking.

I often get ribbed  by my Pakistan and Indian mates who do things very differently when it comes to representing the national side goes thou

The weasels situation was perhaps a bit different given his lack of another route to international cricket - similar to Pocock in Union, hard to blame the guy who has no other route to the top.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on December 06, 2016, 09:09:55 PM
Bit old but nice read - http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/1070481.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/1070481.html)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mr_Orange on December 07, 2016, 08:40:17 AM
Jennings is definitely playing as expected, but now confirmed.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 07, 2016, 08:46:59 AM
yes he is in, at least Jennings is in form.  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on December 07, 2016, 09:11:51 AM
I do wish our top order wasn't so left hand heavy
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 07, 2016, 09:14:24 AM
i was thinking i wonder whether Jennings may get a bowl?

he turns his arm over quite regularly for Durham (especially in one day/T20 stuff) and although it's obviously not the most threatening it would give other bowlers a break and maybe handy in those conditions. I bit like Bell use to do.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mr_Orange on December 07, 2016, 09:34:30 AM
i was thinking i wonder whether Jennings may get a bowl?

he turns his arm over quite regularly for Durham (especially in one day/T20 stuff) and although it's obviously not the most threatening it would give other bowlers a break and maybe handy in those conditions. I bit like Bell use to do.

Not a bad shout. They did give James Vince a bowl over the summer after all!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ScottParko on December 07, 2016, 01:46:31 PM
i was thinking i wonder whether Jennings may get a bowl?

he turns his arm over quite regularly for Durham (especially in one day/T20 stuff) and although it's obviously not the most threatening it would give other bowlers a break and maybe handy in those conditions. I bit like Bell use to do.

At one point he was played in short form games as a bowler and batting at 9/10/11. Useful containing type medium pacer like Collingwood. Don't think he has bowled as much in the long form but as you say it would be useful to break it up for the main seamers a bit
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Rob580 on December 07, 2016, 02:24:56 PM
Considering we're currently staring at 6 bowlers plus Root, I doubt it'll be necessary to give a 70mph part time seamer a go in India.

If we do, it's all gone to pot and we're getting pumped anyway!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on December 07, 2016, 02:55:50 PM
Jennings is certainly no worse than Ian Bell and Jonathan Trott, both of whom were given the odd few overs to break things up - but he is more likely to get a go in English conditions.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: InternalTraining on December 07, 2016, 02:56:07 PM
8 day break between test #3 and #4? 25 day break between Test and ODI series? Those are long breaks; no wonder Virat Kohli is ticked about it.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: iand123 on December 07, 2016, 03:01:26 PM
Tbf India got quite a break the last time they played here by losing in 3 days
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 07, 2016, 03:11:09 PM
Tbf India got quite a break the last time they played here by losing in 3 days

yeah!!

at least we are taking the games 'deep'   :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 07, 2016, 03:11:16 PM
TBH if Jennings is capable of blocking up an end, then I'd be happy to go 3 + 3 in the bowling department.

Elsewhere the series continues to claim injury victims by the Test. Walking wicket Rahane out of the final 2 Tests with hand injury. And Shami is also carrying a knee injury. Manish Pandey could debut or Nair gets another go
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on December 07, 2016, 03:19:20 PM
Side note; England A playing in the UAE today - good runs for Ben Foakes and Tom Westley.  But...I'm confused.  Worcestershire's Joe Clarke, who is a superb prospect with the the bat, is listed as keeping ahead of Foakes.  Odd as Worcestershire don't even give him the gloves...

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1069646.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1069646.html)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mr_Orange on December 07, 2016, 03:52:05 PM
Side note; England A playing in the UAE today - good runs for Ben Foakes and Tom Westley.  But...I'm confused.  Worcestershire's Joe Clarke, who is a superb prospect with the the bat, is listed as keeping ahead of Foakes.  Odd as Worcestershire don't even give him the gloves...

[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1069646.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1069646.html[/url])


I noticed this during the List A game but Clarke has kept previously. Foakes had the gloves for the first 2 List A games and then Clarke for the last I think but surely Foakes has the gloves for the 4 day game..? Guess we will find out tomorrow!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on December 07, 2016, 03:59:29 PM
Nick Gubbins down as skipper too?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 07, 2016, 04:03:41 PM
I noticed this during the List A game but Clarke has kept previously. Foakes had the gloves for the first 2 List A games and then Clarke for the last I think but surely Foakes has the gloves for the 4 day game..? Guess we will find out tomorrow!

How many keepers do we need?

holy moly everyone wants the gloves these days keepers are like London buses

 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ScottParko on December 07, 2016, 04:17:16 PM
Nick Gubbins down as skipper too?

That'll be right, he skippered the last 50 over game after Jennings left.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mr_Orange on December 07, 2016, 04:29:41 PM
How many keepers do we need?

holy moly everyone wants the gloves these days keepers are like London buses

 :)

England could easily pick an 'all keeper' top 6 based on the players in the full or Lions squads this winter. I'm sure there are others not in the squads who could easily fill in as a batsman and/or keeper!

Duckett
Billings
Clarke
Bairstow
Foakes
Buttler

Nick Gubbins down as skipper too?

I saw on Cricinfo Gubbins was down as skipper but according to the ECB site and Twitter Toby Roland-Jones is in charge

https://twitter.com/englandcricket/status/806382225218539520 (https://twitter.com/englandcricket/status/806382225218539520)
https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/154199 (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/154199)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on December 07, 2016, 05:08:37 PM

Duckett
Billings
Clarke
Bairstow
Foakes
Buttler

Add in Adam Wheater, Stephen Davies, maybe Even John Simpson. And then James Foster or Andy Hodd as a specialist gloveman...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: billyb on December 08, 2016, 05:38:26 AM
Touch wood, but Jennings can bat. 50 on debut.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 08, 2016, 05:41:38 AM
Well batted Jennings. Nice debut.


Him and Warner have done well he..... wait that's Cook being aggressive!!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: billyb on December 08, 2016, 05:53:05 AM
Don't worry, he's taken his Warner mask off and done something silly.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 08, 2016, 06:02:22 AM
Don't worry, he's taken his Warner mask off and done something silly.

It looked well and truly on as he charged down the pitch and tried to oil it through midwicket.


Although I'd have expected Warner to be more successful as that's his game, cook got nowhere near it.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 08, 2016, 06:04:51 AM
Let's wait until we're sure we've got one first, eh? Before we start wondering what we'll do if we've got two?

"England surplus opener problem"? I can't wait!


Have we waited long enough? Lol. We got one in Jennings!!!(he's atleast in good nick currently)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: billyb on December 08, 2016, 06:24:09 AM

Have we waited long enough? Lol. We got one in Jennings!!!(he's atleast in good nick currently)

Ha, you all laughed at my Cook to number 3 remarks... I might not end up being a million miles off!
I really, really hope Jennings goes on to get his ton here, he has plenty of time!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on December 08, 2016, 06:46:09 AM
Batted newbie, looks a very good player from what I have seen this morning
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 08, 2016, 07:01:56 AM
Yes well batted, not much foot movement a bit like tresco style.
Looks a good wicket to bat first on,normally spins a lot later on
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on December 08, 2016, 07:05:34 AM
If Jennings does perform well enough then that would be a very nice, but surprising and unexpected problem to have!
But back on the subject of the next Test, I would look at team similar to...

Cook
Jennings
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Ball
Anderson

I think it looks a good ballance as fingers crossed that Ball bowls well so that they have a choice when broad is fit again
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: billyb on December 08, 2016, 07:12:39 AM
I'm concerned about Root, I really think he needs a break.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 08, 2016, 07:14:40 AM
Dropped on 0, he's made the most of it. Then again the pitch is another road. India ruining test cricket again preparing these flat tracks ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 08, 2016, 07:16:57 AM
Yes England really needed Root this series,he has been disappointing
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 08, 2016, 07:50:11 AM
We are fickle.

Are we really turning on root?

Despite that it may be a tour a tad below his normal returns, he is still England's top run scorer in this series!!

That includes a very gutsyl 80 odd, while openeing, due to hameed's injury in a 4th innings rescue a draw attempt
His last inning before this!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 08, 2016, 08:09:19 AM
Dont think anyone is turning on Root,he is a fab player. This is a big series and he has looked in no trouble at all every innings.
Im 100 per cent sure he himself wants to turn starts into hundreds.
The best players set the bar higher than we can imagine.
Its very early for Jennings but when everyone is fit and presume cook stays opening Root could go back to 4
Ali has looked a bit high to me this series, hes very effective lower down
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on December 08, 2016, 08:12:02 AM
I am enjoying this
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 08, 2016, 08:14:31 AM
which one of hammeed and Jennings could bat 4?

That would potentially give us an option as both have proved they can bat and look the part
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: joeljonno on December 08, 2016, 08:37:09 AM
which one of hammeed and Jennings could bat 4?

That would potentially give us an option as both have proved they can bat and look the part

Cook, Jennings, Hameed, Root....  That's how I see it going forward.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Kieron_BT on December 08, 2016, 08:39:27 AM
Yes England really needed Root this series,he has been disappointing

Yeah, he's only averaged 49.83 this series before this game with 2 x 50's and 1 x 100, about time he pulled his finger out!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on December 08, 2016, 08:51:29 AM
which one of hammeed and Jennings could bat 4?

That would potentially give us an option as both have proved they can bat and look the part

Would you not just move Root down one spot and bat either of the lads at three?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 08, 2016, 08:56:22 AM
could do as Jennings seems to play freely and hammeed has some shots so its not like when it was cook Compton trott in top 3

for me the best player bats 3/4 usually so I'm all for it
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mr_Orange on December 08, 2016, 08:57:21 AM
Would you not just move Root down one spot and bat either of the lads at three?

That would make most sense.

Cook, Hameed, Jennings, Root would be your top 4.

I still believe Root isn't as comfortable at 3 and would shift to 4 happily. Jennings looks positive enough to fill that number 3 role well and in the way Bayliss wants a number 3 to play.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 08, 2016, 08:58:25 AM
Cook, Jennings, Hameed, Root....  That's how I see it going forward.

could you not split the left handers up with Jennings at 3

hameed got good runs opening as well but then again Jennings has got a 100

tough call glad I'm not the one making it and no one listens to me
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 08, 2016, 09:08:12 AM
which one of hammeed and Jennings could bat 4?

That would potentially give us an option as both have proved they can bat and look the part

Personally I think Buzz had a good idea.. It won't happen but:
Hameed
Jennings
Cook
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali

For me the top order will also be left, right, left, right combination. YJB deserves his chance to bat higher, hence why I didn't understand Ali coming in at 4 when YJB hasn't kept yet so will be fresh. Also stops the Indian bowlers getting into a rhythm of bowling to just left handers.
I just hope that they persist with these 2 youngsters as both have technical flaws that could be their downfall a few times but with both keeping away from the majority of one day cricket, could help them become test match fixtures for years to come.
It won't happen because the ECB will always find a way to mess it up...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on December 08, 2016, 09:11:04 AM
God bless South Africa
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 08, 2016, 09:17:38 AM
Yeah, he's only averaged 49.83 this series before this game with 2 x 50's and 1 x 100, about time he pulled his finger out!

Great stats Keiran, but for me when he has been needed this series he has made wrong decisions. The run out of Haseeb,  followed by a needless slog sweep when a score was more important than quick runs. In fact a few other needless  dismissals over the last 12 months have shown he still has a lot to learn. Don't get me wrong, he is still.young and most of his shots you could put down to playing a lot of one day cricket but at the moment he should bat at 4. Doesn't matter what people say about KP the majority of the time he knew how to bat in a particular situation and that innings won us the match. Root has that potential but for me at the moment he is just making the wrong decision at important times. This is why the captaincy should go to Stokesy..  nothing really phases him and 9/10 he steps up to plate...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: billyb on December 08, 2016, 09:28:46 AM
Root is still quite obviously our best batsman, I was just saying that it looks like he needs a break- he doesn't seem his normal bubbly self, he's making some strange decisions and he looks exhausted.

I just think he needs a bit of a breather.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on December 08, 2016, 09:34:58 AM
Ah, your traditional English collapse
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 08, 2016, 09:35:23 AM
Oh dear, 2 in the over...another england collapse coming? surely not
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 08, 2016, 09:42:40 AM
How defensive is kohli, long on already back and both batsmen have just come in. Gosh thought cook was a bad captain
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 08, 2016, 09:46:50 AM
That is exactly why Mo unfortunately can't carry on batting at 4.  :( :( :(

Just has too many brain fades.
 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 08, 2016, 09:54:35 AM
I would do the opposite to most.

Bringing a guy up on debut in India in a test series we have no hope of winning when we know we will start our next series with Hameed anyway is pretty harsh on a young guy who will have played little cricket in the last month or two.

I'd open with a Bell for two tests or say to Duckett, go on have another pop. Like a Carberry type selection a few years ago, which always felt like a stop gap for Robson after they convinced him to declare for England.

Some just mentioned Hales, that is just as good.



 after the way Jennings as Batted i doubt if he thinks it's harsh on him always felt that this series was set up just right for him  a tremendous opportunity  to show what he is capable of  at test level
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 08, 2016, 09:56:59 AM
Ashwin giving a offspinners masterclass now, beautiful bowling - reminds me of swanny. All over stokes so far
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 08, 2016, 09:57:04 AM
That is exactly why Mo unfortunately can't carry on batting at 4.  :( :( :(

Just has too many brain fades.

Spot on... India have not beaten England on ability this series so far. They have just out thought them and used their brains. If India had batted 1st they would have made sure they made 400+ by cutting out the needless shots.. I don't blame Jennings but Cook, Root and Ali very poor cricket shots considering they have had a week off in time to work on a plan and the little technical flaws like Root has of pushing at the spinners outside offstump..
England make 450+ and they have every chance of winning this test match. They also need to bat time as this pitch is behaving a little strange already so by end of tomorrow start of day 3, the England bowlers could be right in.the game...

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mr_Orange on December 08, 2016, 09:58:56 AM
How defensive is kohli, long on already back and both batsmen have just come in. Gosh thought cook was a bad captain

Kohli is extremely defensive as a captain. It's silly how many times one ball goes for 4 and he puts a man out sweeping - it's club level ball following.

Obviously he'll learn as he grows into the role more, but I don't rate his captaincy much. Will be interesting how he reacts when India are away from home and under pressure. Hope he proves me wrong over time though - with his attitude as a player and a batsman I could see him becoming quite inventive and more aggressive.

I've never been keen on Cook's captaincy much either, although he has been a bit more inventive recently.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 08, 2016, 09:59:33 AM
Ashwin giving a offspinners masterclass now, beautiful bowling - reminds me of swanny. All over stokes so far
Agreed, but that's because the top order have given their wickets away and Stokesy has to play for the team and NOT how he should be playing and that's an attacking role with 320+ on board...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 08, 2016, 10:07:48 AM
Spot on... India have not beaten England on ability this series so far. They have just out thought them and used their brains. If India had batted 1st they would have made sure they made 400+ by cutting out the needless shots.. I don't blame Jennings but Cook, Root and Ali very poor cricket shots considering they have had a week off in time to work on a plan and the little technical flaws like Root has of pushing at the spinners outside offstump..
England make 450+ and they have every chance of winning this test match. They also need to bat time as this pitch is behaving a little strange already so by end of tomorrow start of day 3, the England bowlers could be right in.the game...



exactly right here guys. proper batsmen get you runs we cannot continue to expect the all rounders to bail us out playing an unnatural game.

Ali is a lower order batsman, a very good one, but a lower order one
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on December 08, 2016, 10:12:51 AM
Oh Jesus Christ
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 08, 2016, 10:13:21 AM
Any idea why every DRS review umpire uses the word "rock and roll it" - gosh its annoying everyone using it.

Oh dear 5 down, bairstow nails it straight to the man on the sweep. England Collapse is definitely on!
Bairstow's shot maybe pressure given how much stokes was struggling
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 08, 2016, 10:14:39 AM
Watch the bounce johnny  ho johnny ...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 08, 2016, 10:22:56 AM
Different pitch now  somthing in it for the bowlers at both ends
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 08, 2016, 10:25:49 AM
am i missing something here...

when i am batting against a spinner who is 6ft plus or is just getting a lot of bounce i always say to myself right put the sweep in the locker it's far too risky a shot.

now i absolutely realise the magnitude/pressure and difference of the situation etc... but the theory is still the same surely?

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 08, 2016, 10:34:10 AM
am i missing something here...

when i am batting against a spinner who is 6ft plus or is just getting a lot of bounce i always say to myself right put the sweep in the locker it's far too risky a shot.

now i absolutely realise the magnitude/pressure and difference of the situation etc... but the theory is still the same surely?

Lol... It is the same and some of the shots played by most of England's top order in this series is shocking.  Cook, trying to smash the 1st ball of a new bowlers spell, coming down the wicket 3rd ball of a bowlers 1st over!!! Etc etc.
Personally I don't blame YJB as he must be pissed off bailing his top order out these last 12 months...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: iand123 on December 08, 2016, 10:35:40 AM
England cant have many toes left after shooting themselves in the foot so often in this series
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 08, 2016, 10:37:52 AM
Both players getting extremely lucky here! Time both started playing some shots, looking to defend isn't working at all
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 08, 2016, 10:49:36 AM
am i missing something here...

when i am batting against a spinner who is 6ft plus or is just getting a lot of bounce i always say to myself right put the sweep in the locker it's far too risky a shot.

now i absolutely realise the magnitude/pressure and difference of the situation etc... but the theory is still the same surely?

What  you can do  though is rather than not sweep get on top of the bounce and sweep along the ground rather than in the air...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 08, 2016, 11:11:44 AM
What  you can do  though is rather than not sweep get on top of the bounce and sweep along the ground rather than in the air...

Unfortunately, only Thorpe and Lamb have been able to play that type of sweep in last 30 years...☺☺
I do think though just like Kohli and Steve Smith can't play the moving ball, English batsmen don't play the sweep were they are getting on top of the ball.. Its something you don't see them practising as most see them see the sweep as an offensive shot that should clear the boundary, rather than a shot that can be used to milk singles and two's whilst putting the spinner off his line.
Rant over with...😬😬
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 08, 2016, 11:22:22 AM
Unfortunately, only Thorpe and Lamb have been able to play that type of sweep in last 30 years...☺☺
I do think though just like Kohli and Steve Smith can't play the moving ball, English batsmen don't play the sweep were they are getting on top of the ball.. Its something you don't see them practising as most see them see the sweep as an offensive shot that should clear the boundary, rather than a shot that can be used to milk singles and two's whilst putting the spinner off his line.
Rant over with...😬😬

Thorpe lamb and  now Jennings
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 08, 2016, 11:40:26 AM
Thorpe lamb and  now Jennings

I was impressed with him once he got over his nerves. I have a funny feeling though that he may have mastered the art of sweeping on a bouncy pitch whilst he was growing up in South Africa (same as Lamby). Sure also his dad is well thought of as a coach..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 08, 2016, 01:02:26 PM
Vaughan has(when hameed is back) jennings at 3 and root back to 4..
Jennings has only played one game but like hameed does not look out of place..
That line up makes us look a bit more solid,someone has to give way in the team but maybe that line up looks better going forward?
Not sure moving Cook would be beneficial...
All of a sudden we have openers!!  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on December 08, 2016, 01:08:39 PM
Not sure what people's reasoning is moving Cook to 3? I mean he's only scored 10,000 runs batting 1/2
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 08, 2016, 01:25:32 PM
Vaughan has(when hameed is back) jennings at 3 and root back to 4..
Jennings has only played one game but like hameed does not look out of place..
That line up makes us look a bit more solid,someone has to give way in the team but maybe that line up looks better going forward?
Not sure moving Cook would be beneficial...
All of a sudden we have openers!!  :)

the person to give way would either be Butler - as Mo would drop back down to 7 or Rashid if you felt you wanted a longer batting line up etc...

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Mo
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 08, 2016, 01:27:04 PM
Not sure what people's reasoning is moving Cook to 3? I mean he's only scored 10,000 runs batting 1/2

his average and strike rate is better when he bats at 7 though.. i think @WalkingWicket37 posted stats earlier in this thread about him opening/at 3 and lower down to prove he can bat at 3
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Percy on December 08, 2016, 01:42:29 PM
Not sure what people's reasoning is moving Cook to 3? I mean he's only scored 10,000 runs batting 1/2

I think the reasoning is that as he has got older he may benefit from batting at 3 whilst also being able to concentrate on the captaincy. I am no expert but I would be interested in seeing his averages for the first 75% of his international career and then for the final 25% and see if there is any variation / decline to warrant moving him down the order.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: joeljonno on December 08, 2016, 01:54:28 PM
the person to give way would either be Butler - as Mo would drop back down to 7 or Rashid if you felt you wanted a longer batting line up etc...

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Mo
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

6 bowlers??  For a game in the UK??  Could drop Mo, or more likely Rashid, for another batsman.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 08, 2016, 02:02:31 PM
I think the reasoning is that as he has got older he may benefit from batting at 3 whilst also being able to concentrate on the captaincy. I am no expert but I would be interested in seeing his averages for the first 75% of his international career and then for the final 25% and see if there is any variation / decline to warrant moving him down the order.

im not sure whether Cook wants to carry on skippering, but as a batsman he could, form permitting and presuming he does not want to go off and work on the farm, play for another....4 or 5 years?

Gooch did it and he's very much in the same mould....

whether he still has the desire and is batting well enough in a year or so's time no one knows.

but potentially he could play for quite a while yet.....

personally I think he will play as a batsman only after next years Ashes
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 08, 2016, 03:34:29 PM
the person to give way would either be Butler - as Mo would drop back down to 7 or Rashid if you felt you wanted a longer batting line up etc...

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Mo
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

Buttler give way ? He could well be the next England Captain..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 08, 2016, 03:43:35 PM
the person to give way would either be Butler - as Mo would drop back down to 7 or Rashid if you felt you wanted a longer batting line up etc...

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Mo
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

I could go with that xi in all conditions as covers all bases and having a 7 8 9 of mo woakes Rashid gives you batting depth

mo becomes what he has always been a batsmen who bowls a bit of spin rather than the front line spinner then if he doesn't get the runs butler comes in or whoever as 7 is still a batsmen/all rounder place
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 08, 2016, 03:44:13 PM
Buttler give way ? He could well be the next England Captain..

next captain will be root unless he turns it down surely
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mr_Orange on December 08, 2016, 03:49:01 PM
Moeen averages 87 at 7 in the order. 3 of his 4 hundreds have been there so send him back. With his style of strokeplay it suits him coming in lower down at Test level.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 08, 2016, 04:07:33 PM
Moeen's a luxury. If we pick the best spinner it's not Moeen. I'd have Buttler over Moeen everyday of the week and twice on a Sunday. No need to have Moeen batting at 7 if he's a genuine batsman
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 08, 2016, 04:16:41 PM
next captain will be root unless he turns it down surely

Personally,  I think Root will do a Botham and be a worse player whilst captain.. It's captain Stokesy for me. Has shown maturity and a willingness to play for the team rather than himself over the last 6 months. Seems to thrive on pressure and the lads respect him.
Jos for one day and T20 asap. Natural born leader and another who seems to thrive on pressure..
Simple this selection lark!!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 08, 2016, 04:19:05 PM
Moeen's a luxury. If we pick the best spinner it's not Moeen. I'd have Buttler over Moeen everyday of the week and twice on a Sunday. No need to have Moeen batting at 7 if he's a genuine batsman

You are not a big fan are you... Personally I wouldn't bat him in the top 5. Look where gilchrist batted and Moen could have a similar impact but rather than keep Moen bowls his spin...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 08, 2016, 04:23:04 PM
You are not a big fan are you... Personally I wouldn't bat him in the top 5. Look where gilchrist batted and Moen could have a similar impact but rather than keep Moen bowls his spin...
Moeen's feasted on the terrible Sri Lankan attack to boost those stats #7. Buttler at #7 can single handily win matches(I'm not biased to Buttler at all...cough cough Somerset lad  :D).

If Moeen is a front line batsman he has to bat in the top 5. Otherwise he carries the water.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Cow_corner on December 08, 2016, 04:27:50 PM
Bairstow?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 08, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
why does a front line batsmen have to bat in top 5?

for me top 7 can be batsmen it depends on who is around

Ideally you have all rounders at 6 and 7 I know but im happy playing stokes at 6 then batsmen at 7 especially one who gives you a bit with the ball

mo has been up and down like a pros knickers so hard to judge him but I think he would be good at 7 counter attacking as Butler has yet to prove himself in tests despite the undoubted talent

can you imagine stoke skipper going at kholi or smith

I can see both captains getting cards but would be fun to watch
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 08, 2016, 04:33:45 PM
Moeen's feasted on the terrible Sri Lankan attack to boost those stats #7. Buttler at #7 can single handily win matches(I'm not biased to Buttler at all...cough cough Somerset lad  :D).

If Moeen is a front line batsman he has to bat in the top 5. Otherwise he carries the water.

you have got too many cider apples in front of you Felix to see the full pint. :)

Look back thru the last couple of years, Mo has contributed significantly to our lower order batting, time and again he gets runs and not just against SL, try Australia at home for a start.

why do England insist on batting him too high? I really don't know. He wants to bat higher? yes.....but it suits the team to bat after bairstow and probably Woakes.
he has a lower order mentality batting and he wont change that.it's all between the ears, he wants to play shots and needs freedom lower down to do that, so does Stokes...

and up until this tour, he has been our best spinner available to us.

IMHO  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 08, 2016, 04:35:52 PM
why does a front line batsmen have to bat in top 5?

for me top 7 can be batsmen it depends on who is around

Ideally you have all rounders at 6 and 7 I know but im happy playing stokes at 6 then batsmen at 7 especially one who gives you a bit with the ball

mo has been up and down like a pros knickers so hard to judge him but I think he would be good at 7 counter attacking as Butler has yet to prove himself in tests despite the undoubted talent

can you imagine stoke skipper going at kholi or smith

I can see both captains getting cards but would be fun to watch
Moeen isn't an all rounder, more bits and pieces. Only Stokes is a true all rounder. You pick your best players that can potentially win you matches. Rashid's improved bowling will win more matches than Moeen's occasional biff hidden down at #7.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 08, 2016, 04:36:58 PM
you have got too many cider apples in front of you Felix to see the full pint. :)

Look back thru the last couple of years, Mo has contributed significantly to our lower order batting, time and again he gets runs and not just against SL, try Australia at home for a start.

why do England insist on batting him too high? I really don't know. He wants to bat higher? yes.....but it suits the team to bat after bairstow and probably Woakes.
he has a lower order mentality batting and he wont change that.it's all between the ears, he wants to play shots and needs freedom lower down to do that, so does Stokes...

and up until this tour, he has been our best spinner available to us.

IMHO  :)
Leachy baby will dispute the last statement  :(
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 08, 2016, 04:52:32 PM
Leachy baby will dispute the last statement  :(
haha
 :)

Taunton has been a road in the past, it wasn't this year...

but he's good, and a bit unlucky not to get on the India tour. Don't think your Captain Rodgers did him any favours saying he's not ready.

Unless of course Chris Rodgers is/was right and he needs another season
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 08, 2016, 04:54:24 PM
Leachy baby will dispute the last statement  :(

A few good judges of a player think it's a bit early for Leach yet. Let's see how he copes in lions games and in his follow up season. I still feel Moen has a place in.the current team and can't see who you would replace him.with and why. Any decent captain will tell you it's useful to have an.off spinner in your attack whatever the conditions..
 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 08, 2016, 04:54:56 PM
next captain will be root unless he turns it down surely

Roots favourite but Buttler is seen as the next Mike brearley the thinking cricketer With the knack of getting the best out of players on the field
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 08, 2016, 04:59:06 PM
Roots favourite but Buttler is seen as the next Mike brearley the thinking cricketer With the knack of getting the best out of players on the field


Nnnooooo. Jos only one day... Test has to be Stokesy and from next series. Him and smith would bring new supporters to the game... :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 08, 2016, 05:05:52 PM
England see something in Butler as he was straight in when Morgan pulled out of the one-dayers...

not sure about Tests thou. I would have Butler in the Test side myself but we are going to get crammed with Ball/Broad/Hameed...and now Jennings has had the ideal start.

it's certainly getting competitive for places....

as a slight aside.. Gary Balance?  no way back I can see. He's a good player but.....maybe back to Yorks to get form back. I think myself he will now need to score massive to get a look.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 08, 2016, 05:32:37 PM

Nnnooooo. Jos only one day... Test has to be Stokesy and from next series. Him and smith would bring new supporters to the game... :D

Yes of course Ben would be a good choice to captain on the pitch but Jos is also about all the other stuff
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Stuey on December 08, 2016, 05:43:33 PM
Something I'm my water tells me butler would be an excellent captain, stokes should be left to be a world class alrounder......botham, Flintoff captaincy ring any bells ?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 08, 2016, 05:48:17 PM
Jennings in my view should have gone originally instead of Duckett.

Jennings was pretty much the stand out in the top division last year in a poor Durham side.

Very good player who score runs all season against everybody.

Good player this lad maybe not English but hey he picked and I wish him well as he playing for his/my country.

As I was saying could have looked daft if he had held on mind!!!

Rate Jennings
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 08, 2016, 06:21:53 PM
Something very old fashioned about his batting.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on December 08, 2016, 06:22:35 PM
Good innings by Jennings. Not many weaknesses and a natural stroke maker. Capitalized well after dropped at 0.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 09, 2016, 06:32:50 AM
These 2 have swung the match in england's favour. Match winning partnership in my opinion
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: InternalTraining on December 09, 2016, 06:52:51 AM
Commentators curse (tv or web) is real!

127.2
Ashwin to Ball, OUT
JT Ball c †Patel b Ashwin 31 (60b 4x4 0x6) SR: 51.66
127.1
Ashwin to Ball, no run, prods at a full ball outside off, takes his bottom hand off the bat...appears he wrenched his arm playing the previous shot
Chris in Taunto: "The downside of Buttler's controlled hitting is that he's almost run out of partners. When Ball goes he'll have no-one left because Anderson won't last long against Ashwin. When should he throw caution to the wind and lash out?" Well, the tactics have worked well so far. Seems he has trust in Ball. Waiting to see what the issue with Ball was on that last delivery
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 09, 2016, 07:05:08 AM
400 all out. Good effort from buttler. Ashwin showing why he's the number one bowler and spinner
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 09, 2016, 07:05:33 AM
400 all out decent effort that! Buttler a Jennings played really well moeen also
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 09, 2016, 07:09:15 AM
Pretty good! Really impressed with butler always wanted him in if we could
Intelligent batting with the low order hes far more than just a hitter
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 09, 2016, 07:58:56 AM
Nothing in it for the seamers...if the England spinners keep bowling this filth this total could look ordinary pretty quickly.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Kulli on December 09, 2016, 08:10:25 AM
Reading a lot of comments elsewhere about it being a mistake not to have played the 3rd spinner, but looking at what the 3rd spinners have contributed so far in the first 3 tests, Ball's part in that partnership has probably already put him ahead even if he doesn't bowl a ball.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 09, 2016, 08:40:28 AM
Has root bowled this series?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 09, 2016, 08:41:34 AM
Yeah you would think 2 spinners should do the job in spinning conditions, if it doesnt spin they wont be effective anyway.
So selection i think England have missed the boat the previous games
Ball is very useful unlucky not to get a game before this one
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Big Mac on December 09, 2016, 08:42:40 AM
Has root bowled this series?

4 overs 0 for 14.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 09, 2016, 10:40:11 AM
Bit worrying that England have no penetration with the ball and india have batting till number 10. England definitely need a breakthrough before close of play
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on December 09, 2016, 10:55:24 AM
Rashid is bolwing some garbage
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: mace9960 on December 09, 2016, 10:57:53 AM
That Last Ball From Rashid Was Short, Wide And Horrible.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on December 09, 2016, 01:03:43 PM
Decision to play 4 seamers looks more baffling by the over! Really liked what Boycott was saying on TMS that you've got to look at how your host sets up in their own conditions as they know them better than anybody else, unless we're classing Stokes as an offie after his spell in the UAE.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: mace9960 on December 09, 2016, 01:11:44 PM
Two Spinners In The Playing 11 Another Two Sitting On The Bench And They Ask Root To Bowl. Now Root Can Be Handy And Has Taken Key Wickets In The Past. But It Shows Poor Performance By Your Main Group Of Spinners Or Possibly A Lack Of Belief In Them By Management Or Their Captain.   
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 09, 2016, 03:14:38 PM
Everyone will be breaking Rashid's balls for not bowling well. But Bairstow fluffed an absolute dolly of a stumping of Rashid's bowling. Had that been taken Rashid might've taken a few quickly. Just roll back to yesterday when Ashwin didn't look very threatening, Moeen gifted him one and then he bagged another couple quickly.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 09, 2016, 03:22:07 PM
Everyone will be breaking Rashid's balls for not bowling well. But Bairstow fluffed an absolute dolly of a stumping of Rashid's bowling. Had that been taken Rashid might've taken a few quickly. Just roll back to yesterday when Ashwin didn't look very threatening, Moeen gifted him one and then he bagged another couple quickly.

Fluffed it yes, a dolly... No. Im sure most keepers will tell you they would have struggled to take a sharp stumping between bat and pad, especially when 90% of rashid's balls that pitched outside off spun. So bairstow was 'wrong footed'. It would have been a good take otherwise!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 09, 2016, 03:59:06 PM
Fluffed it yes, a dolly... No. Im sure most keepers will tell you they would have struggled to take a sharp stumping between bat and pad, especially when 90% of rashid's balls that pitched outside off spun. So bairstow was 'wrong footed'. It would have been a good take otherwise!
Bairstow says he's been keeping to Rashid for a very long time. If that's the case how is he still not picking the googly? It was as straightforward stumping as you'll see in Test cricket. Bairstow was hapless.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 09, 2016, 04:03:17 PM
At test level you would expect it to be taken as to go down as a miss by Johnny.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 09, 2016, 04:07:05 PM
You ignored the main point. I never said it wasnt his fault, for a ball to go straight on when you expect it to turn and it squeezes through bat and pad, you just don't see them.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on December 09, 2016, 06:28:21 PM
Haven't seen the stumping in question but man's got a point, Bairstow's been keeping to Rashid his entire first class career - picking it should not be a problem!

Glad Buttler's making runs, his talent is not in question - if he cracks the tempo for test match batting and plays for years then we're in for a treat watching.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: brokenbat on December 09, 2016, 06:32:53 PM
Sky did a piece on Blairstown keeping to Rashid over the years. Even in the Yorks games, he repeatedly failed to pick Rashid's variations.

Why isn't Butler keeping? Isn't he way better??
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Vitas Cricket on December 09, 2016, 06:39:17 PM
Sky did a piece on Blairstown keeping to Rashid over the years. Even in the Yorks games, he repeatedly failed to pick Rashid's variations.

Why isn't Butler keeping? Isn't he way better??

Buttlers best spells as a keeper have come when England have not had a spinner, certainly not an attacking one. Based on my limited viewing of him up to the stumps, he's a long way behind Bairstow. Both are terrific athletes and superb stood back to the pace bowlers, but thats the easy part of keeping wicket. The artistry happens when stood up.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 09, 2016, 07:09:36 PM
Buttler started as Mumbai Indians keeper in the last ipl. He was soon replaced behind the stumps by Patel(current Indian keeper) as he couldn't pick mumbais spinners.

He got the gloves back eventually but that was more down to Mumbai wanting to play an extra top end batsman.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on December 09, 2016, 07:36:29 PM
Player power eh?

Apparently Bairstow insists on keeping the gloves and Stokes wants to bat at 6.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on December 09, 2016, 07:39:38 PM
Ben Foakes got some runs for the lions today ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 09, 2016, 07:54:42 PM
***controvertial old person post***

These blokes are not keepers. They are batting allrounders

Seeing read keep to ajmal and russell stood up to courtney walsh

Thats keeping...gloucs connection for you there Edge

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: edge on December 09, 2016, 08:18:55 PM
That was my thought - don't see a route to get him in the team, but Foakes is supposed to be a proper keeper isn't he?

Ha the gloucs connection is strong, walk past a gert big poster of Jack Russell every time I go to the gym or to the local shops! Standard of keeping here now isn't the same, that's for sure.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: InternalTraining on December 10, 2016, 04:25:29 AM
Vijay has an amazing Test batting technique and he is looking great! When he crosses 77, he always scores a century.

Kohli is a rockstar who makes no mistakes.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 10, 2016, 04:48:45 AM
Kholi is a class player thats for sure

Good wicket there for Ball thou! :-)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on December 10, 2016, 05:31:44 AM
Vijay has an amazing Test batting technique and he is looking great! When he crosses 77, he always scores a century.

Kohli is a rockstar who makes no mistakes.

True. He has been batting like a machine last couple of years.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 10, 2016, 07:57:13 AM
India looking like they'all get a lead of 50-100. Kohli looking good again.

Advantage of winning the toss has been nullified, just goes to show how well ashwin bowled
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 10, 2016, 08:00:33 AM
Who needs a third spinner when we have Root!!




But seriously anyone seem the scores for the lions game?england look like they should win(afghan need another 80 with 3 wickets left)
But on a pitch where the afghan spinner Rashid has just took an 8 for(to add to his 4 in the first innings) Leach has just took 1 wicket all game.

Maybe rodgers was right when he said he wasn't ready.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 10, 2016, 08:02:19 AM
Root showing the advantage of giving the ball some air. Ali just hasn't done that
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 10, 2016, 08:02:25 AM
Also we have 4 seamers. Yet

Rashid just bowled 15 in a row, and Ali 12, and now Root is on to give one of them a rest.
We really have got selection wrong this tour on the bowling front.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on December 10, 2016, 08:07:03 AM
Keaton 'Titch' Jennings
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 10, 2016, 08:07:38 AM
One brings 4! Good catch by Jennings. Got to feel a bit sorry for the batsman
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 10, 2016, 08:08:35 AM
Seriously, whys as Ashwin even trying to stay there for that? What was the questioning??


It may well have been cookies call before he left the field.
But judging by a few comments on the various social media platforms, it looks like cook had left the field, so Root bought himself on and has snagged two! Haha
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 10, 2016, 08:10:33 AM
Yes root!

Also does this look like a gn edge stamp covered up on ash wins bat?
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f8/alexhill813/AB907924-579C-4B7F-8040-CC9A158FA469_zpsjyo8sead.png) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/alexhill813/media/AB907924-579C-4B7F-8040-CC9A158FA469_zpsjyo8sead.png.html)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 10, 2016, 08:12:33 AM
Ashwin is using SG, that edge branding is sunny tonny.

If only rashid had held onto that!! Would have turned the game
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 10, 2016, 08:29:59 AM
So you take root off for Ali to come on and bowl half trackers!

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 10, 2016, 08:43:15 AM
Woakes has bowled 5 overs
Stokes 8
Ball 10
Anderson 12

Root onto 7

Ali 38
Rashid 33


Yep we definately didn't need the third spinner we Carried in the last 3 games......
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 10, 2016, 08:58:59 AM
Up at 4am to watch,fell asleep missed all the wickets,and we are back in the game.
Meantime root has binned cook and brought himself on!!  :)

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 10, 2016, 09:32:27 AM
Another 100 for kohli - given a masterclass on how to play the turning ball, though be it against 2 very low quality spinners

500+ runs in the series for him already.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 10, 2016, 09:45:58 AM

Yep we definately didn't need the third spinner we Carrie don the last 3 games......

You said that you never, ever need more than five bowlers.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 10, 2016, 09:52:08 AM
You said that you never, ever need more than five bowlers.

Yep, I'd have dropped two seamers
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 10, 2016, 09:56:46 AM
Four unhappy seamers, I think! I'd have played Batty instead of Ball, but I wonder if he and Cook aren't seeing eye to eye.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 10, 2016, 10:06:04 AM
Four unhappy seamers, I think! I'd have played Batty instead of Ball, but I wonder if he and Cook aren't seeing eye to eye.

Believe Batty was taken on this tour as England weren't sure before the tour what they were going  to get from Rashid
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 10, 2016, 10:12:33 AM
Believe Batty was taken on this tour as England weren't sure before the tour what they were going  to get from Rashid

Getting filth served up from rashid so far. I heard the TMS commentators mention he's bowled well today - I'm sorry but the pitch is turning square with bounce and he's struggled to take 2 wickets. If he can't take wickets on this pitch then when is he going to?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 10, 2016, 10:22:46 AM
Another  drop by england
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 10, 2016, 10:38:49 AM
Getting filth served up from rashid so far. I heard the TMS commentators mention he's bowled well today - I'm sorry but the pitch is turning square with bounce and he's struggled to take 2 wickets. If he can't take wickets on this pitch then when is he going to?

I think it's fair to say that you are to Rashid what Felix is to Moen Ali... I  ;) ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 10, 2016, 10:47:14 AM
Currently Rashid looks tired


Dangerous for England now, 150-200 lead and we could well lose by an innings here!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: joeljonno on December 10, 2016, 10:53:58 AM
Getting filth served up from rashid so far. I heard the TMS commentators mention he's bowled well today - I'm sorry but the pitch is turning square with bounce and he's struggled to take 2 wickets. If he can't take wickets on this pitch then when is he going to?

20 wickets for the series, at least twice as many as any other English player. Not bad for the number 2 spinner (as Ali is first choice).
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 10, 2016, 10:56:16 AM
I think it's fair to say that you are to Rashid what Felix is to Moen Ali... I  ;) ;)

Call it how I see it.

The irony Rashid and Andersen wasted both reviews on shockers and now when he edges one and none left

20 wickets for the series, at least twice as many as any other English player. Not bad for the number 2 spinner (as Ali is first choice).

Quite a few of those 20 were numbers 10 and 11
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 10, 2016, 11:01:50 AM
A lot of people say that "wickets don't count when it's the tail etc"


My memory may be bad, but did Warne, McGrath, muralitheran, Walsh, Akram etc all just say "oh I see the tail are in, I better not bowl at these as there beneath me, let someone else get those wickets"
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: joeljonno on December 10, 2016, 11:04:20 AM

Quite a few of those 20 were numbers 10 and 11

3. He has number 10 or 11 out 3 time. He's also got Pujara out 3 times and Kohli twice. That's 50% of the times Kohli has been out is to Rashid. #statsarealwayswhatyouwanttomakethem
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 10, 2016, 11:09:41 AM
3. He has number 10 or 11 out 3 time. He's also got Pujara out 3 times and Kohli twice. That's 50% of the times Kohli has been out is to Rashid. #statsarealwayswhatyouwanttomakethem
Rashid might've got Kohli twice thus far, but the Indian skipper has plunderer 500 odd runs, so safe to assume he's got Rashid's number...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 10, 2016, 11:12:40 AM
Whilst I think Rashid's bowled better than his figures suggest in this match, off his 20 wickets how many did he genuinely 'get the batsmen out' and how many where gifted by India?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 10, 2016, 11:15:24 AM
A lot of people say that "wickets don't count when it's the tail etc"


My memory may be bad, but did Warne, McGrath, muralitheran, Walsh, Akram etc all just say "oh I see the tail are in, I better not bowl at these as there beneath me, let someone else get those wickets"

Yes, yes they did.. They did say that...  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 10, 2016, 11:20:41 AM
Ill have none of your sarcastic comments on here.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 10, 2016, 11:23:51 AM
England are in this game until  India lead gets to above 70 onwards but india unlike England  number eight have a number nine who can bat and bowl stay at the wicket with the Captain  who keeps scoring this is one of the reasons the match is slipping away.
It also nullifies Englands advantage of winning the toss
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 10, 2016, 11:33:30 AM
England are in this game until  India lead gets to above 70 onwards but india unlike England have a number nine who can bat and bowl stay at the wicket with the Captain  who keeps scoring this is one of the reasons the match is slipping away.
It also nullifies Englands advantage of winning the toss

Thats because our number 9 is worse than our 11! And an absolute nut case with a bat
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 10, 2016, 12:45:15 PM
England are in this game until  India lead gets to above 70 onwards but india unlike England have a number nine who can bat and bowl stay at the wicket with the Captain  who keeps scoring this is one of the reasons the match is slipping away.
It also nullifies Englands advantage of winning the toss

I'd probably rate their number 10 (kumar) better than their number 9 which is not a good sign
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Batbuddy99 on December 10, 2016, 12:58:07 PM
I'd probably rate their number 10 (kumar) better than their number 9 which is not a good sign
I rate OUR number 10 better than our number 9!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 10, 2016, 01:00:37 PM
I rate OUR number 10 better than our number 9!

exactly, how rashid is still there is beyond me!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Batbuddy99 on December 10, 2016, 01:02:43 PM
Because, in reality Rashid has first class hundreds, and I was at TB for Ball's only 50, and lets just say the leg side boundary was very very short :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 10, 2016, 03:36:04 PM
Pretty certain the myth that Moeen has in on India has been buried once and for all. His bowling has been dreadful in this series. He dined out on the 2014 series for a while, but he's a woeful bowler.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on December 10, 2016, 04:19:33 PM
No one seems to care that Kohli has been masterful. The quality of his play has been astounding.

Buts let's slag off the best players we have because that is easier.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 10, 2016, 04:29:58 PM
No one seems to care that Kohli has been masterful. The quality of his play has been astounding.

Buts let's slag off the best players we have because that is easier.
What's the sand taste like where you've buried your head Philip?

Moeen is neither good enough to be a top 5 batsman, nor is he anyway near a decent standard for a Test match spinner.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on December 10, 2016, 05:12:45 PM
What's the sand taste like where you've buried your head Philip?

Moeen is neither good enough to be a top 5 batsman, nor is he anyway near a decent standard for a Test match spinner.

I believe the point Buzz was making that where most people are focusing on how our players are playing, how about also focusing on just how superbly Kholi is playing!!!?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 10, 2016, 05:37:54 PM
I believe the point Buzz was making that where most people are focusing on how our players are playing, how about also focusing on just how superbly Kholi is playing!!!?
I never said Kohli isn't playing well, but his task is made easier when we select spinners that aren't specialists eg Moeen, Ansari and latterly Dawson all bits and pieces
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on December 10, 2016, 05:51:17 PM
You have to love the way people turn on Rashid - he has been our best bowler in this series, and was good for most of this innings, albeit a little unlucky with chances and half chances missed.  Is he as good as India's spinners?  Probably not short on skill but a bit on test experience - but he is bowling at infinitely better players of the stuff.

And yes, Kohli was superb.  Always been talented, but where two years ago he tended to go MIA he now just bats and bats.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 10, 2016, 06:21:29 PM
Can't really say rashid or the England spinners are not experienced. Ali and rashid both played against Pakistan in the UAE and Bangladesh. They seem to go awol when the actually starts to turn.

And kohli is class, he's learnt how to pace and innings and be patient. He use to get to 100 and throw it away, I'm sure he'll get a double 100 tomorrow. Quickly catching the highest run getters of 2016 and played a fair few less innings
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: cricketbadger on December 10, 2016, 06:29:56 PM
No one seems to care that Kohli has been masterful. The quality of his play has been astounding.

Buts let's slag off the best players we have because that is easier.

Its a forum, where opinions are expressed. People choose to slag off the 'best' players at their own will, just like you decided to mention how good Kohli is
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on December 10, 2016, 07:19:31 PM
No one seems to care that Kohli has been masterful. The quality of his play has been astounding.

Buts let's slag off the best players we have because that is easier.

I hope his innings inspires some of English batters (read Joe Root). VK is talented but the motivation and commitment is relentless. Game after game he tries to give his best and its very hard to play with such high energy when you play all 3 formats and franchise cricket all year around.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on December 10, 2016, 07:28:15 PM
England are in this game until  India lead gets to above 70 onwards but india unlike England  number eight have a number nine who can bat and bowl stay at the wicket with the Captain  who keeps scoring this is one of the reasons the match is slipping away.
It also nullifies Englands advantage of winning the toss

I doubt England has any chance of winning. Looks like 3-0, unless one of English batter plays a match saving inning which is unlikely as batting on day 4 and 5 will be difficult on this pitch. After India's first innings, England will be playing for a draw and put themselves under pressure. 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on December 10, 2016, 07:40:31 PM
Can't really say rashid or the England spinners are not experienced. Ali and rashid both played against Pakistan in the UAE and Bangladesh. They seem to go awol when the actually starts to turn.

And kohli is class, he's learnt how to pace and innings and be patient. He use to get to 100 and throw it away, I'm sure he'll get a double 100 tomorrow. Quickly catching the highest run getters of 2016 and played a fair few less innings

Its both men's fourth test in India, very different conditions from the UAE or the 'Desh. Ali has done well for a batting all rounder and Rashid could easily have had 5 for 80 instead of 2 for 140. You suspect both would have caused out own batsmen plenty of problems in the conditions.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 10, 2016, 07:50:38 PM
I doubt England has any chance of winning. Looks like 3-0, unless one of English batter plays a match saving inning which is unlikely as batting on day 4 and 5 will be difficult on this pitch. After India's first innings, England will be playing for a draw and put themselves under pressure.

It does like it's going to be 3- 0 but  unless it looks like the draw is the best england can get i  dont think England will play for a draw though as they have already said they made that error in the second innings of the last test  they  also brought in Buttler  with a licence to  go for runs.
 Also think on thiat pitch  England should have  left Woakes out and gone for another specialist batsman at number eight  rather than play four seamers or another spinner as Rashid was over bowled at the close of play he looked tired.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on December 10, 2016, 10:24:50 PM
It looks like England have no idea about player selection on these Indian wickets. Why on earth would you go for another seamer. They could have easily selected another batsman and bowled Root far more.. I think Root is way under bowled. He could have easily bowled another 10 to 15 overs and took the load off Ali and Rashid

Anderson
Ball
Stokes
Ali
Rashid
Root

That's more than enough bowling
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 10, 2016, 10:30:37 PM
Ashwin is using SG, that edge branding is sunny tonny.

If only rashid had held onto that!! Would have turned the game

I believe he is currently using RNS Larsson and that is there edge branding
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on December 10, 2016, 11:16:18 PM
I believe he is currently using RNS Larsson and that is there edge branding

Yes. I have RNS and thats where they stamp it.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on December 10, 2016, 11:21:06 PM
It looks like England have no idea about player selection on these Indian wickets. Why on earth would you go for another seamer. They could have easily selected another batsman and bowled Root far more.. I think Root is way under bowled. He could have easily bowled another 10 to 15 overs and took the load off Ali and Rashid

Anderson
Ball
Stokes
Ali
Rashid
Root

That's more than enough bowling

True. And if you want to play 5 regular bowlers to get 20 wickets then play 3 spinners not 3 seamers.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on December 10, 2016, 11:42:23 PM
You could have used Dawson, who is a decent third spinner and can bat.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Ridenmarke on December 11, 2016, 03:27:17 AM
I believe he is currently using RNS Larsson and that is there edge branding

Wasn't he using Protos bats from Fc Sondi before being stickered by Hero?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 11, 2016, 06:10:57 AM
What a truly thumping session that was! Lead up to 179. Yadav into the 90s, kohli with his third double 100 of 2016
Can he get a triple?

The advantage of winning the toss has flown out the window.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on December 11, 2016, 07:32:16 AM
Well played India.
Rashid picks up 4 more poles.

What is the sweep on how many Eng will get. <120?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 11, 2016, 07:46:48 AM
Disaster! Jennings gone first ball. Could have easily bagged a pair

All out tonight me thinks
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 11, 2016, 08:27:19 AM
We are right in the cart. We just have to try to bat and stay out there as long as possible.

As has been said above, instead of bagging our players, let's praise India, world number 1 and in their own conditions they are as strong as any team I can remember.
Khoii is top class and his double ton was fabulous.

We were second best before the series started and so its proved, no matter if we have 3 spinners or 2 plus Root.
India's challenge is same as ours-to win away and outside their comfort zone.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 11, 2016, 08:30:34 AM
Cook gone too. Completely different pitch when the Indian spinners are bowling
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 11, 2016, 08:31:18 AM
Waste of a review as well
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on December 11, 2016, 08:34:44 AM
I believe Cook has added referral training from Shane Watson to his regime.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Cover_Drive on December 11, 2016, 08:37:37 AM
Is this last game of Alastair Cook as a captain?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 11, 2016, 08:39:53 AM
Ali gone too now. Should be over tonight.

Is this last game of Alastair Cook as a captain?

The wheels fell off when he was captaining, at one point he was fielding at fine leg
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 11, 2016, 08:49:51 AM
Moeen earning his match fee...NOT
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 11, 2016, 09:17:28 AM
Moeen earning his match fee...NOT

Mo is too high, I've said it before but the selectors need to get away from the thinking its Asian conditions he can bat up....it's false thinking and we have done it before. He's simply not good enough at test level to bat high up.

I do think Root should bat 3 as our best bat but for the balance of the team and a top 5 that are proper batsmen Joe has to go back to 4...with Jennings ahead of  him, bairstow 5 and stokes 6.

Then the lower middle if Jos plays he's in, woakes/Ali/Rashid.....someone might miss out there but those 3 are not the quality to go any higher.

It's the quality of bowling you face when they are fresh not the conditions. It's scrambled thinking we have at the moment.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: GoodLeave on December 11, 2016, 09:46:54 AM
Ali gone too now. Should be over tonight.

The wheels fell off when he was captaining, at one point he was fielding at fine leg

I field fine leg to fine leg all the time. Maybe I should be England Captain?  :D

Root and YJB going well now apart from being dropped and stuff. Keep the faith
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: jamielsn15 on December 11, 2016, 09:53:23 AM
So in conclusion, Kohli is a class apart at home, crickets a great leveller, Keaton, and Mo is not a 4 or 5...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 11, 2016, 09:55:50 AM
This is some knock by root. As an impartial it's great viewing. Kohli earlier and root now
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 11, 2016, 10:00:24 AM
Kohli looks class in these conditions. Albeit against two not so great spinners.

Root is a fighter, he looks less comfortable than kohli, but then Indians spin attack is in a different leagues to England's.





So fifth and finally test. Can they let root and kohli swap? Be interesting to see how Root would do against mo and rash. -!: if kohli looks just as comfortable against Ashwin and jadeja.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 11, 2016, 10:05:24 AM
if kohli looks just as comfortable against Ashwin and jadeja.

With the right fielding positions i doubt it, you would have to hold your nerve as a captain and keep your catchers close
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 11, 2016, 10:12:22 AM
And that's the game. Wonderful knock by root
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 11, 2016, 10:55:57 AM
Not quite yet.England fighting as thats all we got left to do.
Terrific knock by Root...you want hundreds from key men but he batted excellent today.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 11, 2016, 11:03:57 AM
6 down at close. Ashwin's other one was spinning more than rashid's leggy.
100 for woakes tomorrow  ;).

England have done better than I expected after going 3 down early.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 11, 2016, 11:06:31 AM
Haha yeah !!

Bairstow butler and the legend woaksey need to give it some long handle.

We are going to go down just put a few in the stands.

Despite the scoreline(for us England fans) this has been very good cricket every game
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 11, 2016, 11:21:48 AM
6 down at close. Ashwin's other one was spinning more than rashid's leggy.
100 for woakes tomorrow  ;).

England have done better than I expected after going 3 down early.

Woakes had the opportunity in the first innings  when  batting with Buttler to take take Englands score over 400 and maybe upto and beyond 450 with the tail  doing so England would now have a lead and maybe a chance of winning.


Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on December 11, 2016, 12:18:00 PM
Woakes had the opportunity in the first innings  when  batting with Buttler to take take Englands score over 400 and maybe upto and beyond 450 with the tail  doing so England would now have a lead and maybe a chance of winning.

In other news, Woakes is also responsible for Brexit, ebola, the rise of DAESH and global warming, right?  :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: jamielsn15 on December 11, 2016, 02:23:06 PM
230-2 to 400 all out. Dropping Kohli on 60-odd and Jayant in single figures is the major problem, overall selection of the squad aside...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Batbuddy99 on December 11, 2016, 02:29:24 PM
In other news, Woakes is also responsible for Brexit, ebola, the rise of DAESH and global warming, right?  :D
You forgot Trump
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 11, 2016, 02:29:38 PM
We have been short just about every first innings-thats been our problem because the spinners need plenty of runs to bowl at.
We dont have a ashwin who is surperb in these conditions...
But big runs have eluded us since the Ashes away couple of years ago.
On the positive side i reckon we are getting there...the top 5 has got to settle down thou.
I could not understand myself why Root was not used as 3rd spinner for this series.im afraid we dont have any better behind him and ali and rash.
This is as good as we got.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 11, 2016, 02:41:44 PM
In other news, Woakes is also responsible for Brexit, ebola, the rise of DAESH and global warming, right?  :D

Well i do wonder in this series what  he contributes to the team besides his three wickets in three matches
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 11, 2016, 02:44:54 PM
We have been short just about every first innings-thats been our problem because the spinners need plenty of runs to bowl at.
We dont have a ashwin who is surperb in these conditions...
But big runs have eluded us since the Ashes away couple of years ago.
On the positive side i reckon we are getting there...the top 5 has got to settle down thou.
I could not understand myself why Root was not used as 3rd spinner for this series.im afraid we dont have any better behind him and ali and rash.
This is as good as we got.
Good point Root as the third spinner and on these wickets a specialist batsman at eight
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: uknsaunders on December 11, 2016, 02:57:58 PM
Biggest problem is we are missing a decent left arm spinner to a team of right handers. Why we didn't take 2 left arm spinners is a bit curious. Particularly when you see how dangerous a dart merchant like jadeja is in these conditions.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on December 11, 2016, 03:15:22 PM
You forgot Trump

Nope, Seniorplayer would actually have us believe that Trump developed Chris Woakes in Area 52 as a means of destablising the England cricket team...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on December 11, 2016, 03:16:57 PM
Biggest problem is we are missing a decent left arm spinner to a team of right handers. Why we didn't take 2 left arm spinners is a bit curious. Particularly when you see how dangerous a dart merchant like jadeja is in these conditions.

If only Fat Sammy could lay off those pies and stick to bowling 'em!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on December 11, 2016, 04:07:18 PM
I think lot of things went wrong for England - the most important one was England's batting was below par. So many posts about Ali, Rashid, Woakes and England's bowling combination etc etc but not many about dismal batting performance by Cook, Root etc. They never got a big score to set an example and motivate other batters.
England won the toss thrice and never secured a lead. Batting in India is different - its easiest in first session of day 1 and keeps getting harder as match progresses unlike other places where its harder on day one then gets easy and the gets harder again.
India has similar problems when they travel, batsmen dont score enough. You need runs on the board to put the opposition under pressure which also helps bowlers to attack more and get 20 wickets.

And atleast this series will put the "win toss win the match" western myth to rest.  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: uknsaunders on December 11, 2016, 04:30:20 PM
I think lot of things went wrong for England - the most important one was England's batting was below par. So many posts about Ali, Rashid, Woakes and England's bowling combination etc etc but not many about dismal batting performance by Cook, Root etc. They never got a big score to set an example and motivate other batters.
England won the toss thrice and never secured a lead. Batting in India is different - its easiest in first session of day 1 and keeps getting harder as match progresses unlike other places where its harder on day one then gets easy and the gets harder again.
India has similar problems when they travel, batsmen dont score enough. You need runs on the board to put the opposition under pressure which also helps bowlers to attack more and get 20 wickets.

And atleast this series will put the "win toss win the match" western myth to rest.  ;)

You can counter that by saying England did what they could given the bowlers they were facing. Sky were discussing it on air that had Kohli and Co had to bat against Ashwin etc things would of been a lot more difficult. Ultimately England no longer have two world class spinners and that's hurt them on turning pitches.  Sure England have played some poor shots but the Indian spinners have got more out of the wicket at all stages of the game,  both first and second innings. Let's not forget Kohli has been head and shoulders above all the Indian batsman and has help turn near par situations into big first innings leads. England particularly in this test have missed chances to get into the ascendency. I'm sure they will learn and come back a better team when they next visit Asia.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: InternalTraining on December 11, 2016, 06:06:11 PM
England's first inning score was a good score. The primary difference between two teams has been Virat Kohli as a batsman. Then, India has clever spinners in Ashwin and Jadeja who have been consistent performers in their home conditions. I feel now it is too late for England to salvage the series. Cook's leadership might be at risk as well. I think it is time for Cook to pass the baton to a younger, more dynamic, Test captain - someone with fire and fight in him. I see no other candidate better than Benji. Virat Kohli before his captaincy was also a fiery character and look what he's done for India's Test side. Plus Kohli also have lifted his game (batting) to another level.

Cook and Root should just focus on runs and records. Benji would make a great England Test captain!

It'd be interesting to see how Kohli's side travels; in their last outing to Australia they did put up a good fight but came up short. Kohli has inculcated a mindset of "no excuses" in his team. I would love to see how they'd fare on the road. All this is great for international Test cricket.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 11, 2016, 06:57:04 PM
To Be Captain of England  history shows you usually have to come from a selective background
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 11, 2016, 07:13:06 PM
It time to put to bed the fact we have no front line spinners.

Rashid is not good enough Mo is a batsman who can bowl a bit and Root is a under used bowler.

Time we had a massive look at this department and produce...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: GoodLeave on December 11, 2016, 07:14:22 PM
To Be Captain of England  history shows you usually have to come from a selective background

 Not sure that makes you any less competent.

Good news Chris Woakes fans. He went to a state school. (So says Wikipedia)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Manormanic on December 11, 2016, 07:17:34 PM
It time to put to bed the fact we have no front line spinners.

Rashid is not good enough Mo is a batsman who can bowl a bit and Root is a under used bowler.

Time we had a massive look at this department and produce...

Wonder what Rashid's figures would be like if he were bowling at Australia or South Africa on these pitches?  He has bowled well, is clearly test class though not a world beater - its harsh to judge him when he is bowling at a very very good side who are masters of the conditions.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 11, 2016, 07:39:36 PM
Wonder what Rashid's figures would be like if he were bowling at Australia or South Africa on these pitches?  He has bowled well, is clearly test class though not a world beater - its harsh to judge him when he is bowling at a very very good side who are masters of the conditions.

The pitches have helped spinners he is simply not good enough...

Yes he bowled at good players but his stats of a average over 40 not for me sorry...

Good enough when has he been good enough he has never been consistently good enough

He at the minute best of a very bad bunch it a double edged sword yes they are good on these wickets but we are adding to that unfortunately by not keeping it tight at least.

And please do not go down he a leggie route because his strike rate doesn't tell me he anything special either although it is at 60 which is the norm I guess

. He all potential that's simply doesn't look like happening.

Time we looked at a few other options.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 11, 2016, 07:48:33 PM
Lets be honest Rashid will not get a look in at home.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 11, 2016, 07:51:11 PM
Not sure that makes you any less competent.

Good news Chris Woakes fans. He went to a state school. (So says Wikipedia)

If he gets a ton tommorow we could be in for a lively time on the forum, and no one has even mentioned M And H.

More tea vicar?

 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on December 11, 2016, 07:52:00 PM
Ultimately we are being beaten by a very good side who are better than us in their own backyard - better spinnrs, and better batters in these conditions.

However, looking at the few positives from this tour and the Lions, there is some talent coming up. I wonder what an England touring party might be in 12 months time?

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Gubbins
Butler
Foakes
Moeen
Leach
Stokes
Woakes
Ball
Broad
T Curran
S Curran
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 11, 2016, 07:53:29 PM
Plenty of positives for sure...

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on December 11, 2016, 08:12:03 PM
http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1072098.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1072098.html)


Hmmm, whilst it not be completely untrue sentiments he expressed, it's pretty poor timing to throw them out now whilst Kohli, Jadeja and Ashwin are pulling our pants down and giving it to us quite vigorously!

Makes him sound a bit of a tit IMHO
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 11, 2016, 08:12:16 PM
Expectations of the tour obviously depend on whether you think we could honestly go to the worlds number 1 team in their conditions and win, which the majority of team don't. Their record home is fantastic. I don't know the last team to win there apart from us in 2012. We had Swann and panesar(absolute shoe in he would have been, what happened Monty?), and a truly great ton by he who cannot be named to win a match pretty much single handed. We scraped that series 2-1.

Personally a draw I would of been delighted with, a series loss it's going to be. Not the end of he world, and we drew in Bangladesh....in my book that's decent.

Huge positives hameed, rash has bowled well, not so good here but very well last couple of matches.  Jennings could be the real deal, root has scored runs and so has bairstow-quickly becoming invaluable to us.

Spin wise it's the third spinner that's the problem, can't be fixed overnight. Think back...how many real quality spinners have we had in the last 30 years?. And as has been said how many spinners do we need at home and most away series.

Ansari don't know what to make of, could have potential, could not.

I just hope we go down fighting tommorow, as @FattusCattus says, pin your ears back and smash it.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on December 11, 2016, 08:13:19 PM
Lets be honest Rashid will not get a look in at home.

Rashid has been too 1 dimensional.... same ball, same ball, same ball etc etc wrongun. Same ball same ball
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on December 11, 2016, 08:16:54 PM
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1072098.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1072098.html[/url])


Hmmm, whilst it not be completely untrue sentiments he expressed, it's pretty poor timing to throw them out now whilst Kohli, Jadeja and Ashwin are pulling our pants down and giving it to us quite vigorously!

Makes him sound a bit of a tit IMHO


Isn't he just saying he can't bowl in India but he can on English pitches
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 11, 2016, 08:17:23 PM
Expectations of the tour obviously depend on whether you think we could honestly go to the worlds number 1 team in their conditions and win, which the majority of team don't. Their record home is fantastic. I don't know the last team to win there apart from us in 2012. We had Swann and panesar(absolute shoe in he would have been, what happened Monty?), and a truly great ton by he who cannot be named to win a match pretty much single handed. We scraped that series 2-1.

Personally a draw I would of been delighted with, a series loss it's going to be. Not the end of he world, and we drew in Bangladesh....in my book that's decent.

Huge positives hameed, rash has bowled well, not so good here but very well last couple of matches.  Jennings could be the real deal, root has scored runs and so has bairstow-quickly becoming invaluable to us.

Spin wise it's the third spinner that's the problem, can't be fixed overnight. Think back...how many real quality spinners have we had in the last 30 years?. And as has been said how many spinners do we need at home and most away series.

Ansari don't know what to make of, could have potential, could not.

I just hope we go down fighting tommorow, as @FattusCattus says, pin your ears back and smash it.

Agree with all that bar the 3rd spinner problem I think we have a 1st and 2nd spinner problem but we are not alone in that.

Maybe cricket has changed again where bits and pieces  players will play but think we need a frontline spinner one we have not seen yet...

Do we need one at home is the honest truth and I think cricket has been moving on look around most countries are doing it.

The world does not have many great spinners like keepers there all bits/pieces now...

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on December 11, 2016, 08:17:25 PM
I disagree Carlos the Jackal - I think it;s all 3 spinning departments that have been exposed.

Moeen is a handy 2nd spinner at best
Rashid is too inconsistent
Batty / Ansari too 'English' and to inexperienced.

I'm going to go crazy here and say that when we go back to normal conditions, we actually pick Rashid as the one spinner and Root as the 2nd spinner for 5-6 overs a day.

I see a side like:

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Ball / Broad
Anderson
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 11, 2016, 08:18:20 PM
Isn't he just saying he can't bowl in India but he can on English pitches

Yes he is...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 11, 2016, 08:18:59 PM
I want to see a left arm spinner that lad from Somerset will do...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on December 11, 2016, 08:20:16 PM
Isn't he just saying he can't bowl in India but he can on English pitches

I think Ashwin  / Kholi have comer on leaps and bounds and would be far more effective in England now.

It's more that we are being well beaten, and Jimmy is not at his best at the moment so I think it makes him look a bot of a plonker- the Indians are much improved.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 11, 2016, 08:20:20 PM
And I think the Anderson comments have made us look a bit daft.

Does it mean that English batters have shown there flows too in the microsim of the Indian spinners.

No disrespect but half out batters have looked cannon fodder.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Ams4287 on December 11, 2016, 08:21:11 PM
Jack Leach.

Would have liked to see a fit Mark Wood bowling short spells with the new and old (reversing) ball.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on December 11, 2016, 08:22:23 PM
Jennngs batted well in the first innings but could have looked like a huge fail had that catch been taken. He would have walked away with a pair
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on December 11, 2016, 08:22:54 PM
England have played pretty well in this Test match and the only reason we will more than likely look like losing this test is dropped catches, Kohli and Jayent put on over 270 runs after being dropped, Kohli was tough chance but should have been caught and Jayent was regulation at Test level.
Lots of positives for me from this series, Hameed and Jennings look like decent top order players, Anderson has recovered from his injury and rashid has got a lot better, butler is back in the side and scoring runs and JB has kept well this series so far so good selection meetings over those two and the gloves and who should bat where
Disappointing is that our spinners are just average compared to top level spinners and this is reflected in English cricket, we need to work in this in the county game, broad injured and I do feel that would have made a difference having him in this test.

Tomorrow if we can get a lead of 80 that would be a great effort by England and maybe, just maybe the wheels could come off the India batting line up.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: CrickFreak on December 11, 2016, 08:25:58 PM
Plenty of positives for sure...

You mean improvements?? ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 11, 2016, 08:32:21 PM
No positives...

England will lose the series but that's no real surprise we always did know we didn't really have the spinners to do the job but it there backyard.

England like many sides have gone there and lost like India do when they tend to travel poorly..

Swings and roundabouts but every dog has there day.

I love watching both England and India there some superb technicians in there own environment and when there not they all moan..

I still do not think Ashwin would be any better in UK conditions I do think VK would mind.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 11, 2016, 09:18:17 PM
No positives...

England will lose the series but that's no real surprise we always did know we didn't really have the spinners to do the job but it there backyard.

England like many sides have gone there and lost like India do when they tend to travel poorly..

Swings and roundabouts but every dog has there day.

I love watching both England and India there some superb technicians in there own environment and when there not they all moan..

I still do not think Ashwin would be any better in UK conditions I do think VK would mind.

Kohli averages 12.5 in England right?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 11, 2016, 09:36:25 PM
On seaming wickets yes we sorted him out last time. The Indians are a better side now thou and he is a better player I reckon.

It's a shame India only tour here every 4 or 5 years.

There is the champions trophy here next year he will be looking to have a good tournament.

I've read Andersons article on cricinfo, link in an above post....I don't think that comes across very well and I'm a bit surprised to be honest. We are competing better than other sides(South Africa for example last tour) but they are a better side in these conditions...

0-2 so far can't see how we can complain too much.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on December 11, 2016, 09:44:21 PM
Kohli averages 12.5 in England right?

13.40... back in 2014. He also only averages 14 in Bangladesh (only 1 test match) in 2015. I think it's fair to say he is an improved player since then and it's harsh to judge a players performance based on 1 tour
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on December 11, 2016, 09:44:28 PM
It's not a shame India don't tour England more often. They are worse than the current tourists, and basically have given up on the last two tours and were a borderline disgrace. Dhoni's attitude in particular stank.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 11, 2016, 09:47:37 PM
It's not a shame India don't tour England more often. They are worse than the current tourists, and basically have given up on the last two tours and were a borderline disgrace. Dhoni's attitude in particular stank.

You're spot on there.. That series I thought they have given up on tests, and just wanted one day/t20 stuff...

For what I have read Dhoni just didn't fancy it. True or u true I can't say. But they played like they didn't care.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on December 11, 2016, 09:54:40 PM
I think Kholi is a different man to what Dhoni was at that time in his career, I suspect we would give the Indians a shoeing in our conditions - but I feel it would be much closer than last time.

Perhaps we should give them a 5 match series in Australia to even up the competition?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 11, 2016, 10:09:48 PM
I think Kholi is a different man to what Dhoni was at that time in his career, I suspect we would give the Indians a shoeing in our conditions - but I feel it would be much closer than last time.

Perhaps we should give them a 5 match series in Australia to even up the competition?

I think our recent form in aus as a team is much worse than Kohlis alone....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 11, 2016, 10:21:10 PM
I don't really see the similarities between what happened to South Africa and New Zealand compared to what's happening to us. For some unknown reason India dished up absolute sandpits against SA and NZ(despite both countries always accommodating the international schedules to avoid clashing with India's cash cow the IPL).

Not one pitch in this series has been anyway near the sandpits the other touring sides received.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 11, 2016, 10:25:14 PM
IIRC Ponting averaged around 15 in India, until his last tour there when he scored a few runs. Does that mean he's not an all time great? Heck no.

Yes Kohli had a shocker on these shores in 2014, more so Anderson had it on him TBH, but his resumé everywhere else stacks up as well as anyone's.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on December 11, 2016, 10:26:06 PM
1. I think India prepared sandpits against NZ and SA to get enough ranking points to get to no.1
2. The humiliation of England is greater, as these matches having been played on more sporting wickets.

As an aside, the trash talk of both sides has been unedifying and boorish. Sometimes I wish I was a Kiwi...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 11, 2016, 10:33:13 PM
The Indians have come under criticism for preparing Bunsen burners, yet not a word about green tops usually.

Been disappointed with the wickets on this tour so far apart from this one. Makes it much better viewing when the bowlers are on top and the batsmen have to fight.

Wouldn't have mattered if England's spinners would have had a chance to knock India over, they aren't Swann and monty. Plenty of freebies available with these 2 spinners. Pressure seems to get to them as soon as the ball turns
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 11, 2016, 10:44:38 PM
TBH the only spinner to cause India much concern has been Mitchell Santner during this period of home domination. The young Kiwi was the stand out.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: cesare_in on December 12, 2016, 05:47:45 AM
Watched 4 out of 5 days at the Wankhede stadium and tbh England looked downcast on the field all those days. Their body language gave it all away. Add to that some atrocious field placement esp when Virat and Jayant were batting. Something's you cannot make out while watching on TV.

Wish they had fought a little more harder that 4th morning and also when they batted in the 2nd innings.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 12, 2016, 07:20:07 AM
Another 5 wicket haul for ashwin. Cook's blamed the missed chances for this loss - his failings in my view:

1. Team selection - playing 4 medium pacers
2. Throwing his wicket away on day 1
3. Over bowling rashid, not making enough bowling changes.
4. Waiting until the 136th over to take the new ball. Ashwin showed what a spinner can do with the new ball.
5. Saw him at fine leg at one point.

I'm sure I've missed some. It would have been easier had he lost the toss, he would have had a proper excuse. He used the toss excuse earlier in the series.

Expecting chennai to turn square then again never know given the pitches this series
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on December 12, 2016, 08:00:57 AM
England have played pretty well in this Test match and the only reason we will more than likely look like losing this test is dropped catches, Kohli and Jayent put on over 270 runs after being dropped, Kohli was tough chance but should have been caught and Jayent was regulation at Test level.
Lots of positives for me from this series, Hameed and Jennings look like decent top order players, Anderson has recovered from his injury and rashid has got a lot better, butler is back in the side and scoring runs and JB has kept well this series so far so good selection meetings over those two and the gloves and who should bat where
Disappointing is that our spinners are just average compared to top level spinners and this is reflected in English cricket, we need to work in this in the county game, broad injured and I do feel that would have made a difference having him in this test.

Tomorrow if we can get a lead of 80 that would be a great effort by England and maybe, just maybe the wheels could come off the India batting line up.

Must have been watching a different game  ;) :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 08:19:52 AM
Another 5 wicket haul for ashwin. Cook's blamed the missed chances for this loss - his failings in my view:

1. Team selection - playing 4 medium pacers
2. Throwing his wicket away on day 1
3. Over bowling rashid, not making enough bowling changes.
4. Waiting until the 136th over to take the new ball. Ashwin showed what a spinner can do with the new ball.
5. Saw him at fine leg at one point.

I'm sure I've missed some. It would have been easier had he lost the toss, he would have had a proper excuse. He used the toss excuse earlier in the series.

Expecting chennai to turn square then again never know given the pitches this series

The pitches have wrong footed us quite right because only this one has spun big and Cook has not had a great game right also.
For England to compete we needed big runs and to hold our catches which we havnt..and India are a good side at home.
The third spinner has to be Root leaving a space for an extra bowler or an extra batsman-we could have a batsman because theres def enough bowling in the side.
0-3 is a fair reflection thou...i dont think England should be making excuses..we were nearly one up after the 1st test as well

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 12, 2016, 08:24:50 AM
We need our spinners to take wickets on spinning wickets, Ali has only taken 9 compared to Rashids 22 this series
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 08:51:10 AM
Rash has done well, didn't bowl great this game but in the previous ones def improved from previous matches.

You can dress it up anyway you want but we are playing 4 seamers because our spinners are not top class, I wish we had a couple but we don't, and we certainly don't have 3.

Rashid has exceeded my expectations this tour, 22 wickets is not bad at all
 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 09:10:12 AM
Rashid's wickets tally looks fine, he just doesn't get the batsmen out, more they gift their wickets as they are wanting to smash him to the moon and back...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 12, 2016, 09:15:51 AM
Rashid's wickets tally looks fine, he just doesn't get the batsmen out, more they gift their wickets as they are wanting to smash him to the moon and back...

Wickets are wickets doesn't matter how they come! You can say the same for some of Ashwins wickets today rashids wicket case in point
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 09:23:54 AM
Wickets are wickets doesn't matter how they come! You can say the same for some of Ashwins wickets today rashids wicket case in point
The deliveries that Bairstow and Woakes got separate the great bowlers from the merely average ones. Bairstow batted superbly and was done like a kipper.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on December 12, 2016, 09:31:20 AM
Lying in > watching us lose
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 12, 2016, 09:31:57 AM
Thought rashid's shot was pretty interesting - nailed it straight to the man in the deep when you've got buttler on the other end. Brainless cricket
Not convinced by Woakes (that 100 comment was sarcasm) and rashid's batting abilities.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 09:32:48 AM
Ashwin is a terrific bowler Felix, he's got the one that goes the other way which is great to have in your variations

Rashid and Mo will get wickets in different ways, yes more so if the batsmen are attacking, that's all part of being a spinner....

there is a difference in class it's clear to see.....

Quite where we go with spin i'm not sure.

For a start point I would like to see England touring the sub continent a lot more than we have done in recent times....

that's the challenge, the only way we can get better is getting out of our comfort zone on green seamers.

We are not a bad side, I expect some negativity on the forum today...it's misplaced lads.....

We are a decent side, it will be interesting to see next match if we play another batsman or go back to 3 spinners....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 12, 2016, 09:34:02 AM
You all missed my point ALI ONLY took 9 WICKETS....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on December 12, 2016, 09:41:17 AM
Rash has done well, didn't bowl great this game but in the previous ones def improved from previous matches.

You can dress it up anyway you want but we are playing 4 seamers because our spinners are not top class, I wish we had a couple but we don't, and we certainly don't have 3.

Rashid has exceeded my expectations this tour, 22 wickets is not bad at all
 :)

Root comes on and picks up 2 important wickets.. then bowls stuff all after that... why?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 12, 2016, 09:42:24 AM
Our spinners also havent built enough pressure with maidens, 38 maidens (ali and rashid) bowled compared to ashwins and jadejas 89... 11% of ali and rashids overs were maidens compared to 20%... It all works out in their favour at the end of the day regardless off having 3 spinners or not, compare the top 2 of both teams
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on December 12, 2016, 09:42:53 AM
Root comes on and picks up 2 important wickets.. then bowls stuff all after that... why?

Cook was off having a piss
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 09:48:34 AM
Root comes on and picks up 2 important wickets.. then bowls stuff all after that... why?

hard to work out that I agree. Root has bowled before and done alright. picks up wickets now and again

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 09:52:29 AM
Our spinners also havent built enough pressure with maidens, 38 maidens (ali and rashid) bowled compared to ashwins and jadejas 89... 11% of ali and rashids overs were maidens compared to 20%... It all works out in their favour at the end of the day regardless off having 3 spinners or not, compare the top 2 of both teams

Swann used to tie an end down first innings quite a lot....so did Panesar, so did Tufnell, Edmunds,Emburey. All the good ones do

You can go back far as you want, the best did that for us.

If you(we) aint got that it's very hard

we are picking 3 spinners because we need 3, but not because we have 3 good enough.

and if we're honest, @FattusCattus did say....have we got 2 really good enough.


Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tim2000s on December 12, 2016, 09:54:02 AM
It's interesting really. What we need is one world class spinner, which we had with Swanny, or one that can be deadly accurate, even without much spin, see Giles. At the moment we have three, none of which on their own is a match winner, and none of which have the consistency required to bowl maiden after maiden.

What can we learn from this? Well I'd suggest that you either send Moeen to playing as a bowling all rounder and make him bowl a ton of overs in county cricket, rather than play as a batsman who can bowl, and you make Rashid play tons of CC games, forcing his captain to play him and make him bowl. Both of them need to be bowling a lot and gaining that level of consistency and repetitive-ness that we just don't seem to be able to manage in the 5-day game.

If we could get just one of them to step up to fill that gap, it totally changes the balance of the team. A batting spinner and a batting fast bowler, then we have plenty of depth.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on December 12, 2016, 09:54:09 AM
Bring back Tredders!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 09:56:47 AM
It's interesting really. What we need is one world class spinner, which we had with Swanny, or one that can be deadly accurate, even without much spin, see Giles. At the moment we have three, none of which on their own is a match winner, and none of which have the consistency required to bowl maiden after maiden.

What can we learn from this? Well I'd suggest that you either send Moeen to playing as a bowling all rounder and make him bowl a ton of overs in county cricket, rather than play as a batsman who can bowl, and you make Rashid play tons of CC games, forcing his captain to play him and make him bowl. Both of them need to be bowling a lot and gaining that level of consistency and repetitive-ness that we just don't seem to be able to manage in the 5-day game.

If we could get just one of them to step up to fill that gap, it totally changes the balance of the team. A batting spinner and a batting fast bowler, then we have plenty of depth.

this in a nutshell is it.. :)

at the risk of upsetting Felix and the rest of the Somerset followers on here as well. Stop doctoring wickets at Taunton

If we (England) want Leach and think he could develop raging bunsns are not going to help him.

Sorry but it's true
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 09:58:10 AM
Bring back Tredders!

one of our ex colts plays for Kent. Imran.

he's left arm  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Rob580 on December 12, 2016, 10:00:39 AM
Really not sure the 4 seamers was as big an issue as it's being made out to be. We could have 6 spinners if we wanted, the issue isn't the number of spinners, it's the fact that all of our spinners are, frankly, awful.

I'm still not a fan of Rashid, too inconsistent, seems like he's soft in the head as well as soon as there's a bit of pressure on him (turning pitch, batsmen attacking) he turns to mush. You can say that he's a leggie, so he's going to be inconsistent but that's nonsense, just look at Yasir Shah, Adam Zampa, Davendra Bishoo, even Ish Sodhi! They can all at least land an over vaguely where they want. Time to get shot of him I'm afraid, cant see that Mason Crane would be any worse. Can't see that Moeen can justify playing just as a bowler, and given his soft dismissals this series, I'm not sure he can hold down a place as a batsman either.

Tough times, but I think given Ben Stokes being the allrounder, and Chris Woakes certainly knows which end to hold, we can afford to pick whoever is the best spinner, regardless of their other abilities. Got to be Leach or Rayner really though? I reckon if either of them can string together a decent start to next season, they could well be in the frame for the summer tests.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Rob580 on December 12, 2016, 10:08:45 AM
this in a nutshell is it.. :)

at the risk of upsetting Felix and the rest of the Somerset followers on here as well. Stop doctoring wickets at Taunton

If we (England) want Leach and think he could develop raging bunsns are not going to help him.

Sorry but it's true

Yes and no, in that, Yes, the bowlers need to bowl on a variety of pitches to learn how to bowl (which he does, given half the games aren't at Taunton) and No in that what we needed in this series was someone who knows how to bowl teams out on turning pitches, which he does know.

The Indians didn't become good spinners by bowling on green tops!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 12, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
Root comes on and picks up 2 important wickets.. then bowls stuff all after that... why?

Cook wasn't there so Root brought himself on.

Cook obviously no faith in him. Root is far from a front line bowler, but he got some good drift and turn in his small spell. He needs to be used more.



Root bowler 15-20 overs and batting 3 is more likely to work than moeen bowling 50 overs and then having to come in at.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on December 12, 2016, 10:32:23 AM
I believe Root himself was showing a little reluctance to bowl when there were 3 frontline spinners in the side, and also he has talked of protecting his back.

However, I am in agreement with the Smiler - moving forward it may be useful to find a proper, more consistent spinner instead of both Mo and Rash and use Root as the 2nd spinning option.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on December 12, 2016, 10:38:34 AM
That will not happen because after this tour we're not due to go back to subcontinent pitches until at least the winter of 2018

Also Anderson's comments about Kohli are getting blown way out of proportion
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 12, 2016, 10:59:13 AM

Also Anderson's comments about Kohli are getting blown way out of proportion

Sounds like usual Anderson - sour grapes. The pot calling the kettle black given his record on green tops. Got to love Graeme Smith digging into jimmy too ;)

Think ashwin should be fined for his behavior when anderson walked out.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 12, 2016, 11:12:27 AM
Andersons comments although badly timed are probably correct, or at least they are for now, obviously when kohli comes to england, if he gets runs then fair play he has the technique but as it stands im sure we can all say that kohli still has a few issues with the swinging ball, as we have no other evidence to go on
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: rickjames on December 12, 2016, 11:21:24 AM
He was asked an opinion and he offered one from an opposition bowler. I don't see the issue? Statistically speaking his averages overseas are decent apart from England, maybe Sri Lanka and West Indies if you wanted to be really difficult (38 and 36 respectively). I'm excluding Bangladesh at 14 as that was just one match...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 12, 2016, 11:38:09 AM
He was asked an opinion and he offered one from an opposition bowler. I don't see the issue? Statistically speaking his averages overseas are decent apart from England, maybe Sri Lanka and West Indies if you wanted to be really difficult (38 and 36 respectively). I'm excluding Bangladesh at 14 as that was just one match...

I agree... Ashwin was asked about Root and said that they had watched videos and knew he had a problem with spinners outside the off stump where Root pushes too hard at it and therefore candidate for edging behind. How's this different to Anderson having an opinion about an opposing player.
Bottom line is that it's a man's game and if someone expresses an opinion about you then you go out show them how wrong they are...
English batsmen struggle to play spin and Kohli is very suspect against the moving ball.
Cook is a poor captain and the top order batted poorly at important times.. Simples...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 12, 2016, 11:43:42 AM
Cook out and root in according to cook...... maybe

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38286086 (http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38286086)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 11:48:46 AM
Cook out and root in according to cook...... maybe

[url]http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38286086[/url] ([url]http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38286086[/url])


wrong move if it happens. I think listening to Cook he is running out of gas. but needs to hang on for a while yet.

no one should be groomed to lead England, it's not an old boys club handing over power
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 12, 2016, 12:06:11 PM
wrong move if it happens. I think listening to Cook he is running out of gas. but needs to hang on for a while yet.

no one should be groomed to lead England, it's not an old boys club handing over power

I agree. Not sure root batting at 3 ( I prefer him at 4) and the pressure of captaincy will help his game.. Especially if England insist on.him playing all 3 formats. Some people like Jos and Stokesy seem to.thrive on responsibility but there are others like Kane Williamson and Amla who haven't..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 12:14:15 PM
I agree. Not sure root batting at 3 ( I prefer him at 4) and the pressure of captaincy will help his game.. Especially if England insist on.him playing all 3 formats. Some people like Jos and Stokesy seem to.thrive on responsibility but there are others like Kane Williamson and Amla who haven't..

yes it doesn't work for me this....

I do think Cook is coming to the end, he looks a bit downcast, it's a tough tour this one.

but there are other players who could do it if they had to. Root would be under monumental pressure, would you want to do that to our best bat?

and he def needs to go back to 4-to help the team

Mo ALi has to get out of the top 5, he's way too high
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Number4 on December 12, 2016, 12:21:28 PM
I think Root wants the job... Some people thrive under pressure and I believe Root is one of those people
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 12:25:44 PM
I think Root wants the job... Some people thrive under pressure and I believe Root is one of those people

pretty sure after this tour we are not playing test cricket until July next year...there's a big gap.

Don't know whether that would be looked at as a break for Cook(mentally) or a time to get Root in slowly...

England play a lot of cricket we don't normally get this break in the schedule(if i'm correct not playing till July)

would like to see Cook carry on next year personally
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on December 12, 2016, 12:27:07 PM
I get the impression England want Cook to lead then in the Ashes next winter and will then let Root take over afterwards.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 12, 2016, 12:30:19 PM
I think Root wants the job... Some people thrive under pressure and I believe Root is one of those people

What makes you think he wants it?? I have heard him explain a few times that he believes his batting is still not at the standard he wants to be at and by his own admission he doesn't have much experience at captaincy.
Of course he won't turn the job down because being England captain is such an honour but for me if he does get it then he has to stop playing T20  cricket for England.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 12:42:06 PM
What makes you think he wants it?? I have heard him explain a few times that he believes his batting is still not at the standard he wants to be at and by his own admission he doesn't have much experience at captaincy.
Of course he won't turn the job down because being England captain is such an honour but for me if he does get it then he has to stop playing T20  cricket for England.

yes exactly my understanding. any interview I have read or heard I think he's glad Cook is around to take the pressure off.

England need to think very carefully here... we have a history of unsuccessfully putting too much pressure on our best players

god knows we have made mistakes in the past
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on December 12, 2016, 01:11:30 PM
Cook did have a point - if the missed stumping for Vijay on 45 (added a further 91 runs after that), Kholi dropped on 69 (added a further 166 runs) and Yadav dropped on 8 (added 96) had all been taken then that equals a massive 353 runs more than if the chances had of been taken! So Cook was kind of correct when he stated those 3 chances cost them ALOT!!!
BUT that must not detract from the other issues we have! England HAVE to find a front line spinner! I don't think we would ever find an Ashwin and certainly a Warne only ever comes along once in a lifetime! But take a Swann or Monty right now. Rashid has done ok in the nunmber of wickets taken - but he needs to learn to bowl consistently and apply pressure. The Indian batsmen seem to know that he will bowl at least one bad ball every over and sometimes more....so they just need to block and then take the bad balls to score! But surely there has to be a special spinner somewhere?
In other areas, I agree that Ali should not be batting in the top 5! But he is an excellent 7/8 and a part time spinner. If we had one genuine front line spinner, then I honestly believe that Root and Ali between them could do a decent job in most conditions and take the odd wicket (or 2 if you are Root!)
In most English conditions spinners are rarely needed and are only of any use in the 4th innings anyway. Therefore I believe that on most home grounds, we would manage handsomely with Root and Ali, as long as we had our best pace bowlers!
Evidently the ground where the next Test is spins! Therefore surely we need to look at bringing in Dawson or another spinner so that we have Rashid, Ali, Root and Dawson/Batty? And we can afford to really play Stokes, Ball and Anderson? Or even take a risk and just play 2 seamers?? I assume Stokes would be one because of his batting. Then either Anderson/Ball/Broad/Woakes as the other? We have nothing to lose now! We are likely to lose 4-0 anyway, so take a risk and maybe even play Rashid, Ali, Dawson, Root AND Batty if they are all around still?



 
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: joeljonno on December 12, 2016, 01:18:45 PM

I'm still not a fan of Rashid, too inconsistent, seems like he's soft in the head as well as soon as there's a bit of pressure on him (turning pitch, batsmen attacking) he turns to mush. You can say that he's a leggie, so he's going to be inconsistent but that's nonsense, just look at Yasir Shah, Adam Zampa, Davendra Bishoo, even Ish Sodhi! They can all at least land an over vaguely where they want. Time to get shot of him I'm afraid, cant see that Mason Crane would be any worse.

Rashid is still early in his international career.  Think he has got to be given chance to up his game.  No point sending him back to the CC to pick up wickets for fun against half the muppets in that league.  He needs to bowl against the best for an extended period of time, across a multitude on different tracks to prove whether he is good enough.  Here are some stats to back this up...

After 9 games..
Rashid - 37 wickets at 39.81 (s/r of 63.95)
Warne - 21 wickets at 37.38 (s/r of 75.00)

Ballance - ave 61.50 with 4 hundreds (and look at him now)

I think he should be first choice for the rest of this series, next summer and the next winter.  Then a real decision can be made as to whether he is good enough.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 01:27:03 PM
Rashid is still early in his international career.  Think he has got to be given chance to up his game.  No point sending him back to the CC to pick up wickets for fun against half the muppets in that league.  He needs to bowl against the best for an extended period of time, across a multitude on different tracks to prove whether he is good enough.  Here are some stats to back this up...

After 9 games..
Rashid - 37 wickets at 39.81 (s/r of 63.95)
Warne - 21 wickets at 37.38 (s/r of 75.00)

Ballance - ave 61.50 with 4 hundreds (and look at him now)

I think he should be first choice for the rest of this series, next summer and the next winter.  Then a real decision can be made as to whether he is good enough.
Warne vs Rashid stats are irrelevant.

Warne wasn't bowling long hops and full tosses. He was murdered by Ravi Shastri on debut(whom was a sensational player of spin)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 12, 2016, 01:34:14 PM
plus im sure warne was a youngish lad learning his trade at the top level

Rashid has had 10+ years of county cricket behind him, yes maybe 3-4 being messed about by England but still a solid 6-7 years in county cricket

if you can't control it by 30 your prob never going to

we have to accept that Rashid will be hit and miss but when on will win games and when off will look a clubbie or get someone new and I can't think of many who could do either job we need

where is the king of spain when we need him
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: uknsaunders on December 12, 2016, 01:37:47 PM
Bring back Tredders!

To be fair he did a pretty decent job. Would of made life a lot tougher. But he's experienced and that's the issue. Most decent English spinners don't mature until they nearly reach their 30s,  swann,  edmonds,  emburey.  Panesar would / should of been at his peak now but the ECB should of paid more than a passing interest in his development. Tuffers was a freak in terms of ability at his age but he was mismanaged to hell in the 90s.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: csnew on December 12, 2016, 01:41:22 PM
Cook did have a point - if the missed stumping for Vijay on 45 (added a further 91 runs after that), Kholi dropped on 69 (added a further 166 runs) and Yadav dropped on 8 (added 96) had all been taken then that equals a massive 353 runs more than if the chances had of been taken! So Cook was kind of correct when he stated those 3 chances cost them ALOT!!!


On the flip side, Jennings dropped on 0 in the first innings, Bairstow also dropped a few times and lots of plays and misses. Cook's used the excuse of not taking their chances but I dont buy it, they've probably evened themselves out
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Rob580 on December 12, 2016, 01:43:18 PM
Rashid is still early in his international career.  Think he has got to be given chance to up his game.  No point sending him back to the CC to pick up wickets for fun against half the muppets in that league.  He needs to bowl against the best for an extended period of time, across a multitude on different tracks to prove whether he is good enough.  Here are some stats to back this up...

After 9 games..
Rashid - 37 wickets at 39.81 (s/r of 63.95)
Warne - 21 wickets at 37.38 (s/r of 75.00)

Ballance - ave 61.50 with 4 hundreds (and look at him now)

I think he should be first choice for the rest of this series, next summer and the next winter.  Then a real decision can be made as to whether he is good enough.

Warnie played as the primary spinner in all conditions in those first 9 tests (and when he was a lot younger and inexperienced as a cricketer), whereas Rashid has played solely in helpful conditions, where he hasn't had to play the holding role and has had spin from ball 1 pretty much every time. I think if you're a 28 year old professional spinner, and you still don't have reasonable / any control then he's never going to get it, is he?

I've always thought of him as similar to Imran Tahir, in that he gets away with bowling some garbage in ODI's because the field is out. But won't ever have enough control to be a genuine threat in a Test match. I don't think that's an unfair comparison to make?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: uknsaunders on December 12, 2016, 01:45:19 PM
Ultimately England's solution to spin bowling isn't Rashid or Ali. Rashid has gone OK in India but Asia isn't know as a leg spinners paradise,  even Warne struggled.  Finger spinners win games in asia and turning the ball away from the bat. Even Swann struggled to the right handers,  so Ali struggles are understandable. More control would help but England need to have a good think about how to beat teams in Asia and start getting the right people playing. Why not fly jake leach over from the UAE and throw him into a dead rubber,  what's to lose?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 12, 2016, 01:53:36 PM
Until we find a spinner that can bowl consistently in the right areas at a lot quicker pace we won't get anywhere in the subcontinent. Ali and Rashid along with their being inconsistent have also bowled far too slowly on these wickets.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 12, 2016, 01:58:13 PM
On the flip side, Jennings dropped on 0 in the first innings, Bairstow also dropped a few times and lots of plays and misses. Cook's used the excuse of not taking their chances but I dont buy it, they've probably evened themselves out

The maths still doesn't add up there my New Zealand friend. England gave more away than India did..
However the most important factor that Captain Cook missed was the fact the top 5 Indian batsman have very rarely given their wickets away in all 4 tests so far. There isn't a need to worry about dropped catches if your top 5 bat like they can do when winning 3/4 tosses!!
For me the rot started against Pakistan last summer. Under Strauss and Vaughan if England won the toss and batted.then order of play was bat the opposition out of the game in your 1st innings. Whether you bat time or make sure the top oder hit 450+ it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on December 12, 2016, 02:03:36 PM
The maths still doesn't add up there my New Zealand friend. England gave more away than India did..
However the most important factor that Captain Cook missed was the fact the top 5 Indian batsman have very rarely given their wickets away in all 4 tests so far. There isn't a need to worry about dropped catches if your top 5 bat like they can do when winning 3/4 tosses!!
For me the rot started against Pakistan last summer. Under Strauss and Vaughan if England won the toss and batted.then order of play was bat the opposition out of the game in your 1st innings. Whether you bat time or make sure the top oder hit 450+ it doesn't matter.

Indeed you are correct! Pointless statement to make when England gave 353 runs aways. And all the play and misses made a difference? Surely playing and missing happens on bath batting sides!
I think the issues are:
- Top bats giving their wickets away (even Root)
- No front line spinners
- Ali batting too high
- confidence low in the team!

But I guess he couldn't say all that on TV  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 02:07:19 PM
Until we find a spinner that can bowl consistently in the right areas at a lot quicker pace we won't get anywhere in the subcontinent. Ali and Rashid along with their being inconsistent have also bowled far too slowly on these wickets.


excellent point, these pitches to me anyway seem some balls have turned, some have not. Surely the most dangerous ball to play is the one that does not spin when you think it will. The pace you bowl is key here.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 02:19:25 PM
Indeed you are correct! Pointless statement to make when England gave 353 runs aways. And all the play and misses made a difference? Surely playing and missing happens on bath batting sides!
I think the issues are:
- Top bats giving their wickets away (even Root)
- No front line spinners
- Ali batting too high
- confidence low in the team!

But I guess he couldn't say all that on TV  ;)

top batsmen giving their wickets away is crucial....Ali does not have the mentality to bat top 5, but he's fine lower down.

At home England get away with it because if we get 300 or even 250, our bowlers are king. Away from home is flat or our medium pacers are nullified we need the batters to go big, including Root.

it's bitten us on the bum...and it was always going to.  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: springbok45 on December 12, 2016, 02:25:08 PM
Cook wasn't there so Root brought himself on.

Cook obviously no faith in him. Root is far from a front line bowler, but he got some good drift and turn in his small spell. He needs to be used more.



Root bowler 15-20 overs and batting 3 is more likely to work than moeen bowling 50 overs and then having to come in at

Doesn't Root have back issues, which is why he doesn't bowl much as he'd rather not cripple himself and reduce his batting.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 02:25:08 PM
Sorry but if Moeen Ali, by general consensus, a top order batsman. If he's unable to bat in the top 5 he sod off back to county cricket. Moeen'a bowling had the beginners luck, but that's long since disappeared. He's neither good enough with bat or ball. Don't give me this tosh he averages 100 odd at #7.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 12, 2016, 02:26:55 PM
I don't think you can underestimate how much we miss 2 players.

1. Mark Wood - would have been excellent in these conditions to be able to give the Indian batsman the hurry up.
2. James Taylor - I realise he is now not playing but he was nailed on in the troubled 4 slot before everything happened and also more importantly is an outstanding player of spin.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: petehosk on December 12, 2016, 02:27:25 PM
@ppccopener It is indeed! And I think some of it may be because we have suddenly got a stronger mid order and even our lower order can bat in most (although not all!!) conditions! Which seems to make the top order think that they can give their wicket away as the middle order will dig us out, which is not true this time round!
But I would like to see Ali bat further down the order. If the last Test is likely to be played on a raging turner then would like to see..

Cook
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Buttler
Stokes
Dawson
Ali
Rashid
Batty
Anderson/Ball
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 02:32:43 PM
Rather play 11 batsmen then play 4 terrible spinners...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 02:33:06 PM
Sorry but if Moeen Ali, by general consensus, a top order batsman. If he's unable to bat in the top 5 he sod off back to county cricket. Moeen'a bowling had the beginners luck, but that's long since disappeared. He's neither good enough with bat or ball. Don't give me this tosh he averages 100 odd at #7.

Felix !!!!!  Ali is not a top order batsman. he cant play real pace, we shoved him up in the UAE and we have done it again because it's spin conditions, it's total folly AND WE HAVE DONE IT AGAIN THIS SERIES!!!

Top order batting is mental as much as technical.

I'm gonna blow a gasket in a minute where's walking wicket and his M and H bat's I can have a go at  :) :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 02:33:48 PM
I don't think you can underestimate how much we miss 2 players.

1. Mark Wood - would have been excellent in these conditions to be able to give the Indian batsman the hurry up.
2. James Taylor - I realise he is now not playing but he was nailed on in the troubled 4 slot before everything happened and also more importantly is an outstanding player of spin.
[/b]
Outstanding player of spin in English conditions he's never faced anyone as good as Ashwin
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 02:34:05 PM
Rather play 11 batsmen then play 4 terrible spinners...

most sensible thing you have ever said . Period.   :)

haha
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 02:36:15 PM
Felix !!!!!  Ali is not a top order batsman. he cant play real pace, we shoved him up in the UAE and we have done it again because it's spin conditions, it's total folly AND WE HAVE DONE IT AGAIN THIS SERIES!!!

Top order batting is mental as much as technical.

I'm gonna blow a gasket in a minute where's walking wicket and his M and H bat's I can have a go at  :) :)
Moeen bats #3 for WCCC so he's obviously supposed to be a front line batsman, unless their tail starts at #3
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 12, 2016, 02:38:41 PM
[/b]
Outstanding player of spin in English conditions LB he's never faced anyone as good as Ashwin

Unfortunately Felix we will never know how he would have got on will we
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 12, 2016, 02:40:09 PM
I don't think you can underestimate how much we miss 2 players.

1. Mark Wood - would have been excellent in these conditions to be able to give the Indian batsman the hurry up.
2. James Taylor - I realise he is now not playing but he was nailed on in the troubled 4 slot before everything happened and also more importantly is an outstanding player of spin.

This!

taylor was a cracking player of spin and would have moulded the top of the order and made us look a lot more stable.

Wood is a nother big loss as he has genuine pace and the control to cause issues almost the new simon jones
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 12, 2016, 02:43:05 PM
Moeen bats #3 for WCCC so he's obviously supposed to be a front line batsman, unless their tail starts at #3

Top 3 in division 2... I think we finally get your dislike of Moen.. :)  however currently our options are limited..  the management decision to bat him at 4 is baffling when YJB IS a better player. Even more baffling by the management when we won 3/4 tosses and therefore YJB was fresh and could have batted easily. The other point is that we let their bowlers get into a rhythm by batting so many left handers one after another...
All about opinions but can't think of one good reason why the management wouldn't have tried to have a left hand and a right hand batsman at the crease together as much as possible..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on December 12, 2016, 02:44:57 PM
Taylor would be the obvious choice as captain if he were still available.

Given the number of back to front ineptitude England have picked as 'batsmen' over the last few years, Moeen deserves his place. He has contributed a lot more to winning Test matches than a lot of the side.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 02:46:06 PM
I don't dislike anyone. But apart from Moeen being a "quota pick" he's simply not good enough. Period.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 02:47:52 PM
Taylor would be the obvious choice as captain if he were still available.

Given the number of back to front ineptitude England have picked as 'batsmen' over the last few years, Moeen deserves his place. He has contributed a lot more to winning Test matches than a lot of the side.
Having a slog at #7 hardly makes Moeen a vital member of the side...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: horseman on December 12, 2016, 02:48:41 PM
I don't dislike anyone. But apart from Moeen being a "quota pick" he's simply not good enough. Period.

is the quota yorkies and non yorkies?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 02:59:58 PM
is the quota yorkies and non yorkies?
Non cider drinkers/cider drinkers  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 12, 2016, 03:09:03 PM
For me, at the end of the day, when all is said and done etc... etc... the worst thing I think is that England haven't actually learnt that much on this tour. Which is a great shame.

Apart from Hameed and possibly Jennings everything else was pretty much already known. Rashid and Mo aren't good enough and fold under pressure therefore we don't have spinners to compete with India's. India's batters are amazing in their conditions, particularly Kohli who is in the form of his life!

We just didn't do anything different to try and shake India up in their own backyard and if you ask the same question all the time you will always get the same answer.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on December 12, 2016, 03:16:15 PM
I don't dislike anyone. But apart from Moeen being a "quota pick" he's simply not good enough. Period.

Classy.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on December 12, 2016, 03:24:38 PM
If not one of us can decide on a team, realistically what chance do the selectors have?

In sub continent conditions we do not have any inked in picks other than Cook, Root, YJB, Stokes, Anderson & Broad(When fit). The rest of the team is still developing and has a cloud of doubt over them. Come back to English/SA/Oz conditions and you then have Woakes that joins the inked in places (In my opinion anyway).

India have 2 spinners that are inked in, wherever they play in the world Not a single inked in pick for England is a spinner, that is main problem in Indian conditions.

To add to this I know people will say Ali is nailed on to play, but that is out of necessity, not choice.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 03:28:31 PM
If not one of us can decide on a team, realistically what chance do the selectors have?

In sub continent conditions we do not have any inked in picks other than Cook, Root, YJB, Stokes, Anderson & Broad(When fit). The rest of the team is still developing and has a cloud of doubt over them. Come back to English/SA/Oz conditions and you then have Woakes that joins the inked in places (In my opinion anyway).

India have 2 spinners that are inked in, wherever they play in the world Not a single inked in pick for England is a spinner, that is main problem in Indian conditions.

To add to this I know people will say Ali is nailed on to play, but that is out of necessity, not choice.
TBH Anderson's only nailed on to play in countries where they use the Duke ball
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 12, 2016, 03:29:40 PM
TBH Anderson's only nailed on to play in countries where they use the Duke ball

Rubbish!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 03:36:35 PM
Rubbish!
Look at his record. Sucks in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand where they use Kookaburra. Struggles in Sri Lanka again the kookaburra. Poor in India and the SG

He goes well in West Indies and UAE as they use the Duke
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 12, 2016, 03:41:22 PM
Look at his record. Sucks in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand where they use Kookaburra. Struggles in Sri Lanka again the kookaburra. Poor in India and the SG

He goes well in West Indies and UAE as they use the Duke

you dont take 400 wickets and be poor in 75% of the test playing nations, he's one of englands greatest ever bowlers if not the greatest, to say hes not an auto pick is complete and utter rubbish!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 12, 2016, 03:44:18 PM
you dont take 400 wickets and be poor in 75% of the test playing nations, he's one of englands greatest ever bowlers if not the greatest, to say hes not an auto pick is complete and utter rubbish!

how dare you

its all about stats and avg now
it doesn't matter how many runs or wickets you have or how many games you win for the team

if your avg isn't sub 10 in all conditions your (No Swearing Please) (if your English that is or part south African in wrong colours)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 03:46:54 PM
you dont take 400 wickets and be poor in 75% of the test playing nations, he's one of englands greatest ever bowlers if not the greatest, to say hes not an auto pick is complete and utter rubbish!
No way near the greatest English fast bowler. Trueman was twice as good
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on December 12, 2016, 03:48:11 PM
Larwood was better again.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 12, 2016, 03:49:19 PM
Larwood was better again.

doesn't count as played on doctored English wickets and batsmen were bribed to get out to him
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 03:51:31 PM
Larwood was better again.
Behave
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 03:52:33 PM
doesn't count as played on doctored English wickets and batsmen were bribed to get out to him
Thought Larwood's claim to fame was body line?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 12, 2016, 03:54:47 PM
yes England paid groundsman to docture wickets

its only way we get wickets or do anything
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 12, 2016, 03:55:24 PM
No way near the greatest English fast bowler. Trueman was twice as good

he only played to keep the yorkies happy!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 12, 2016, 03:55:59 PM
Anderson must get unreal wickets at home as to be the 3rd highest seam wicket taker and have a better strike rate than Pollock and walsh must mean he takes 8 wickets an innings at home to boost his stats
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 03:56:36 PM
he only played to keep the yorkies happy!
Same could be said for Root and Bairstow  ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 12, 2016, 03:56:48 PM
I think  england didnt play smart cricket this morning they could have made a better fight of it Bairstow got a good one but what was Woakes thinking he has Buttler the other  end so fourth ball he faces try's to wack Ashwin over square leg misses by a mile then try's to drive him against the spin and gets bowled Absolutly awful shot selection.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 12, 2016, 03:57:41 PM
Same could be said for Root and Bairstow  ;)

neither of whom have as many wickets as jimmy....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 03:58:37 PM
Anderson must get unreal wickets at home as to be the 3rd highest seam wicket taker and have a better strike rate than Pollock and walsh must mean he takes 8 wickets an innings at home to boost his stats
296 at home in 133 innings
171 away in 97 innings
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 03:59:07 PM
neither of whom have as many wickets as jimmy....
But had vastly superior run tallies
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 12, 2016, 04:02:07 PM
296 at home in 133 innings
171 away in 97 innings

so considering hes poo away he gets 1 wicket extra every 2 innings at home compared to away

2.2 per innings at home 1.8 per innings away

wish I was that bad
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 12, 2016, 04:05:08 PM
296 at home in 133 innings
171 away in 97 innings

How do steyn, mcrath, lee, kallis, zaheer etc stack up? I'd guess other than zaheer it'd be similar!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mpt7 on December 12, 2016, 04:05:23 PM
I don't dislike anyone. But apart from Moeen being a "quota pick" he's simply not good enough. Period.

@Felix Tito - which quota is he filling ?

and now back to the cricket chat....

before a CBF batter, me or his dog are facing up to Steyn, Rabada and Philander in the summer a few things for your consideration my fellow willow rubbers. These are just my musing by no means facts or even assertions. just ramblings of a cricket loving buffoon. 

1. difference in this tour was Kohli - without his runs India would have struggled in most instances.
2. we have scored big first innings runs in 2 out of 3 games (400 & 537)
3. England were expected to lost 5-0, we are above exception

positives

1. We have, potentially, found a suitable, stable top 4 in Cook, Hameed, Jennings and Root for the future
2. Ali and Rashid have bowled well in games and (extremely) poorly in others. showing there is talent but they are inconsistent. they should have learnt a lot from tour. We haven't got anything better so we should work with what we have. youngsters without the right temperament and preparation will be crushed and that would not move english cricket forward
3. Butter coming in at 7 balances out the side 
4. Jake ball is another good option  - (we're gonna need some as Broad and Anderson, England's best bowling pair in 50 years, can't go on forever)

Issues
1. ali and rashid aren't world class spinners - did you think that would change cause we are in India?
2. Root doesn't seem to be kicking on and dominating. this is required as the next stage in his development

yes we have got beaten - fairly easily in this test - but overall the side is more developed that when it when in.

Finally - I hope some tells Cook he is a good captain with limited tools in sub continental conditions. Back in England he will be fine. bashing the chef is easy but when he's gone there with be a massive gaping hole at No1 that I don't look forward to having to fill.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on December 12, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
You kind of just disproved your own rule @Felix Tito ....  :D

0.4 wickets per innings difference on 'helpful' to 'unhelpful' isn't a big difference...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 12, 2016, 04:14:46 PM
Back to reality then

as above I don't think we have learned anything we didn't know other than hameed and Jennings have POTENTIAL

Cook looks jaded to me and could do with giving up the captaincy as he looks as though his heart is not in it but maybe the 5 months he has off will refuel the tank but we know he is not much of a tactician and I think relies on jimmy and broad to set the fields etc in England but without a confident experienced spinner he has no one to rely on to help in sub continent 

in a quandary myself as do we go with rooooooot and hope he goes well and not the way of beefy, Sachin and lara when teams made there best player skipper

or do we go left field and go someone completely new or little experience like SA did with Smith
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 12, 2016, 04:14:56 PM
You kind of just disproved your own rule @Felix Tito ....  :D

0.4 wickets per innings difference on 'helpful' to 'unhelpful' isn't a big difference...
Anderson averages 25 at home and 34 away. So he gets less wickets and conceded more runs. Hence we lose more matches...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 12, 2016, 04:17:56 PM
Who has the right temperament or nowse to do it in the current side?

I do believe captains and leaders are born not made as it needs to be natural like one of my favourites clive llyod or border or Vaughn

I cant think of anyone in the side now that looks a natural leader with the right temperament
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 12, 2016, 04:21:09 PM
Who has the right temperament or nowse to do it in the current side?

I do believe captains and leaders are born not made as it needs to be natural like one of my favourites clive llyod or border or Vaughn

I cant think of anyone in the side now that looks a natural leader with the right temperament

I'd go buttler, wouldn't need to keep and I think he's a better shout at 4 than moeen and did really wel skippering in the Odis in Bangladesh
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 12, 2016, 04:21:52 PM
Anderson averages 25 at home and 34 away. So he gets less wickets and conceded more runs. Hence we lose more matches...

Take the blinkers off... you've proven the difference in wickets is negligible
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 12, 2016, 04:24:34 PM
Take the blinkers off... you've proven the difference in wickets is negligible

yes but its a difference of 9

that's too big so we should only play him at home and ashwin  (who is prob best spinner out there now) has a difference of 12 home and away so he should only play home as well

Lets just only play home tests as there must be something in growing up and playing 80% of your cricket in certain conditions that makes it easier to be better at home than away but I cant put my finger on it
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 12, 2016, 04:40:55 PM
Unless we have an absolute mare of a summer Cook's last series as captain will be Ashes away 2017/18.

Cook has 5 months off after this then we should beat the Windies at home and even if we lose to SA they would be mad to give the new captain a first series an away Ashes.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on December 12, 2016, 04:47:29 PM
The more I look at it the more it seems that Cook wants to go, has told the ECB he's done with the captaincy but the ECB have overruled and told him they don't want him to go until after the Ashes.

Will be interesting to see in the summer what his interest/enthusiasm levels are.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 12, 2016, 04:51:24 PM
South Africa at home does seem to be the series that ends the reign of England's captains! If I remember correctly Nasser, Vaughan and Strauss were all ousted during/after series vs sa at home

Just sayin....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 04:54:36 PM
The more I look at it the more it seems that Cook wants to go, has told the ECB he's done with the captaincy but the ECB have overruled and told him they don't want him to go until after the Ashes.

Will be interesting to see in the summer what his interest/enthusiasm levels are.

I think youre right, you could see he has flown straight out after the birth of his daughter and the job is wearing him down and it does everyone who has done it.

Cook is doing England a massive service, he is trying to get the team settled before he hands over the reins

im convinced of it.......

and we are not settled are we?  I honestly think we are improving, yes we have come unstuck in India, but from the last couple of years swann.kp.bell.prior,strauss all gone

and we have had a lot of changes in the team

straussy will want him to do it another year I reckon.....
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: uknsaunders on December 12, 2016, 08:51:12 PM
The whole Cook thing is bs. Him and Strauss are best mates and the last thing they would want for a young team is a change in captain. Cook hardly gets overworked as he just does tests and he always knew India was a tough gig with the spinners he had.

The blame has to go towards the selection panel who let Ballance go,  take one seamer too many,  and didn't work out another left armed turning the ball away might of been sensible against a team of right handers. Even after Bangladesh they could of moved players between the lions and the squad and they didn't.

Add to that a complete lack of planning after Pakistan mauling our spinners in the UAE last winter and you really have to wonder what Strauss & Co has been doing for the past 12 months.

On the brightside we haven't just lost at home to an injury ravaged team  ;) ,  yet.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on December 12, 2016, 08:58:55 PM
Just seen the Vaughan interview saying Bayliss has lost 11 out of 21 tests. Worrying for a side with the class of England's seam attack who also have Root & Cook in the top 6! At what stage do we look at Bayliss as a whole and ask if he's right for the job?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: uknsaunders on December 12, 2016, 09:06:51 PM
Just seen the Vaughan interview saying Bayliss has lost 11 out of 21 tests. Worrying for a side with the class of England's seam attack who also have Root & Cook in the top 6! At what stage do we look at Bayliss as a whole and ask if he's right for the job?

Great use of stats.

Ashes 3-2
Lost 2-0 in UAE
SA 2-1
Sri Lanka 1-0
2-2 Pakistan
1-1 Bangladesh
3-0 down in India

Undefeated at home
Won in SA
Stuffed in Asia.

Could be worse. Two games were dead rubbers we lost.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: iand123 on December 12, 2016, 09:17:40 PM
Michael Vaughan jumps on any bandwagon he can, he also doesn't tend to use stats very well, picked Gary sobers in his best ever ODI XI despite him playing one ODI
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 09:22:01 PM
He's been good for us, he must of been brought in because our one day cricket was 5 years behind everybody else and Strauss and whoever else made the decision we can't be snobbish any more and treat limited overs cricket as second class. Let's be honest that's exactly what we did for years, absolutely years!!

He wants aggressive positive cricket and it's worked in the one dayers. I'm not sure it can translate as well to test cricket.
The game has changed yes but you cannot just stick one day players in and hope it works over five days. Unless you have the technique and mental strength to bat time you will be found out. And we have been.

Seems now slightly different thinking with jennings and and def hameed-these guys are potentially test players for a long time,hameed especially I think.

Overall I think he's a good coach and a good fit for England.

Might be worth remembering as my pak mate pointed out to me today, SA and Aust have been soundly thrashed in Asia in the last 6 months.



Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 12, 2016, 09:24:08 PM
one day players in test cricket work... look at warner
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Buzz on December 12, 2016, 09:30:13 PM
Michael Vaughan is just a pathetic click bait merchant these days. Genuine rent a quote.

Cook has effectively resigned already, he doesn't need the captaincy anymore.

Whoever takes over, I assume Root, will have a very stable starting point for the summer...
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

Bayliss needs to up his game or let his number 2 step up.

But there isn't a lot to change.

India have a better team than us right now, which is light years better than us at home.

Having a rant about everything is a waste of energy. Results will get better, confidence will return and results will improve.

This is a tough tour, that happens.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 12, 2016, 09:34:21 PM
Off of someones head, how many times have our squad visited india... Buttler (constant IPL experience) Root 2? cook 3? anderson 3? broad 3? the rest... have they?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: uknsaunders on December 12, 2016, 09:36:30 PM
one day players in test cricket work... look at warner

I think Warner is a one off. You can point at Morgan & Hales as examples of it not working so well. I think for the most part you need to be able to technically be good enough to start with to play test cricket.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 12, 2016, 09:38:36 PM
need to be able to technically be good enough to start with to play test cricket.

Steve Smith?  :D :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: uknsaunders on December 12, 2016, 09:40:32 PM
Steve Smith?  :D :D

Played as a bowler who could bat a bit!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 12, 2016, 09:50:13 PM
one day players in test cricket work... look at warner

You and Glenn McGrath bowl bowl medium pace. Same game different game.

Bit quicker when walking wicket pads up I grant you.  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 12, 2016, 09:50:38 PM
Michael Vaughan is just a pathetic click bait merchant these days. Genuine rent a quote.

Cook has effectively resigned already, he doesn't need the captaincy anymore.

Whoever takes over, I assume Root, will have a very stable starting point for the summer...
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

Bayliss needs to up his game or let his number 2 step up.

But there isn't a lot to change.

India have a better team than us right now, which is light years better than us at home.

Having a rant about everything is a waste of energy. Results will get better, confidence will return and results will improve.

This is a tough tour, that happens.
Agree  when we get to July 2017  by the start of the tests this tour will be nothing more than a memory the players will be revigorated and ready to go. Hopefully England will have a fit mark wood  in the team who is a far better bowler than Woakes and a good bat  low down the order.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 12, 2016, 10:54:19 PM
You and Glenn McGrath bowl bowl medium pace. Same game different game.

Bit quicker when walking wicket pads up I grant you.  :)

hahaha, he asks for it i swear!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: roco on December 13, 2016, 07:20:25 AM
Michael Vaughan jumps on any bandwagon he can, he also doesn't tend to use stats very well, picked Gary sobers in his best ever ODI XI despite him playing one ODI

To be fair on that one as he is the greatest cricketer ever I bet he would still have been awesome and would have figured it out pretty quick

Viv never played t20 but by god he'd be a good bet in them
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 13, 2016, 09:30:58 AM
Michael Vaughan jumps on any bandwagon he can, he also doesn't tend to use stats very well, picked Gary sobers in his best ever ODI XI despite him playing one ODI

Gary sobers  the greatest cricketer I've seen play  in my lifetime surely the greatest all rounder  of all time.
Will always remember him hitting Nash for six sixes in one over
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: northernboy1987 on December 13, 2016, 11:15:10 AM
. Hopefully England will have a fit mark wood  in the team who is a far better bowler than Woakes and a good bat  low down the order.

@Seniorplayer in Woakes-bashing shocker  ;) :D
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: iand123 on December 13, 2016, 11:18:20 AM
To be fair on that one as he is the greatest cricketer ever I bet he would still have been awesome and would have figured it out pretty quick

Viv never played t20 but by god he'd be a good bet in them

I wasnt doubting Mr Sobers talent at all :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Calzehbhoy on December 13, 2016, 11:26:08 AM
I still don't get the anti-Woakes sentiment! In the last 12 months he's pretty much on par with Jimmy (Stats below) I've also added Broad for comparison.

Woakes
  M    I      O          W         SR       E
(13   25   363.2   42      26.07   3.01)
Jimmy
M      I      O          W         SR       E
(12   21   394.1   41        23.73   2.46)
Broad
M       I      O          W         SR       E
(14   26   464.4   51        24.49   2.68)

While also averaging 28.66 with the bat.

What more do you want from your Bowling all rounder?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 13, 2016, 11:30:23 AM
@Seniorplayer in Woakes-bashing shocker  ;) :D
Well I stand by the post when you just come in trying to sweep  ashwin from outside off stump over midwicket and then trying to drive  against the spin and getting bowled wasn't smart cricket when you have Buttler the other end.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 13, 2016, 11:33:00 AM
I still don't get the anti-Woakes sentiment! In the last 12 months he's pretty much on par with Jimmy (Stats below) I've also added Broad for comparison.

Woakes
  M    I      O          W         SR       E
(13   25   363.2   42      26.07   3.01)
Jimmy
M      I      O          W         SR       E
(12   21   394.1   41        23.73   2.46)
Broad
M       I      O          W         SR       E
(14   26   464.4   51        24.49   2.68)

While also averaging 28.66 with the bat.

What more do you want from your Bowling all rounder?


woakes ins't going to do much on these wickets, but neither has Anderson..apart from wind up the opposition, and neither really has Broad

all our seamers are doing part of the holding job we would expect decent spinners to do. But we don't have anyone to tie down an end.

Of the lot of them Ball and Broad are just as likely to get wickets as anyone else, apart from Rashid who, far as I know, has got the most of everyone  :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 13, 2016, 11:37:46 AM
I still don't get the anti-Woakes sentiment! In the last 12 months he's pretty much on par with Jimmy (Stats below) I've also added Broad for comparison.

Woakes
  M    I      O          W         SR       E
(13   25   363.2   42      26.07   3.01)
Jimmy
M      I      O          W         SR       E
(12   21   394.1   41        23.73   2.46)
Broad
M       I      O          W         SR       E
(14   26   464.4   51        24.49   2.68)

While also averaging 28.66 with the bat.

What more do you want from your Bowling all rounder?
Wickets and runs  in this series would be a good place to start.  Also Averages can be misleading you shouldn't keep getting selected on the back of one decent summer against opposition who were poor at times.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 13, 2016, 11:39:05 AM
interesting stuff in interview from Kholi. not the most humble of cricketers it must be said   :)

however......he says Indian and Asian batsmen are always rated on how they do in English conditions especially, but flip the coin and English players don't get the same comparison as being judged on spinning tracks

he def has a point...  don't think there's many who would not say Ponting was not a great batsman, didn't score any runs in the sub continent.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 13, 2016, 11:40:12 AM
Well I stand by the post when you just come in trying to sweep  ashwin from outside off stump over midwicket and then trying to drive  against the spin and getting bowled wasn't smart cricket when you have Buttler the other end.

You are spot on about Woakes but you could say Root, Cook, Rashid and Moen have thrown their wickets away at the wrong time on more than one occasion since the last test against Pakistan.

For me India have just out thought England. Their top 5 hardly given their wickets away and the tale has stuck around and batted intelligently...
Simples...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 13, 2016, 11:50:03 AM
You are spot on about Woakes but you could say Root, Cook, Rashid and Moen have thrown their wickets away at the wrong time on more than one occasion since the last test against Pakistan.

For me India have just out thought England. Their top 5 hardly given their wickets away and the tale has stuck around and batted intelligently...
Simples...

yep.....exactly

you cant argue with @Seniorplayer Woakes has not had a good series. the runs lower down are missing and no penetration with the ball. It's just about the same with everyone else. I would still have him in the side perhaps where we differ.

But people are allowed a different opinion...after all it's a forum

 :)

and what makes it great. Reports of our  death are greatly exaggerated haha  :) :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 13, 2016, 12:34:01 PM
yep.....exactly

you cant argue with @Seniorplayer Woakes has not had a good series. the runs lower down are missing and no penetration with the ball. It's just about the same with everyone else. I would still have him in the side perhaps where we differ.

But people are allowed a different opinion...after all it's a forum

 :)

and what makes it great. Reports of our  death are greatly exaggerated haha  :) :)

I would have Woakes in at moment to but with Woody, Ball, plunkett (on right surface) and Tom Curren,  I think Woakes needs to look over his shoulder. To be honest I don't think Jimmy will be playing for England 2018 home series and Broad seems to play 2 test matches then misses 2. Not exactly a "sick note" but time waits for no one... ;)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 13, 2016, 12:46:14 PM
I would have Woakes in at moment to but with Woody, Ball, plunkett (on right surface) and Tom Curren,  I think Woakes needs to look over his shoulder. To be honest I don't think Jimmy will be playing for England 2018 home series and Broad seems to play 2 test matches then misses 2. Not exactly a "sick note" but time waits for no one... ;)

Broad is a concern im not sure flogging him any more in a series we are 0 -3 down in benefits anyone to be honest. Jimmy has had a long lay off he should be ok.

Wood I really hope i'm wrong but his injuries so far tell me unless he bucks history with fast bowlers who have got badly injured in their 20's he will have a short career. Or lose pace significantly.

hope im wrong, he's scarily fast on any surface.....and he reverses it which has been totally missing in India.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Mpt7 on December 13, 2016, 01:13:02 PM
Woakes stays -  he was the best bowler last summer and is a natural successor to Anderson but better with the bat.

If he ends up at 10 we will have a long tail!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 13, 2016, 01:18:53 PM
Woakes' ability in English conditions has never been in doubt. 300 odd F/C wickets at 24. He'd clueless when there's no swing
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 13, 2016, 01:23:54 PM
Woakes' ability in English conditions has never been in doubt. 300 odd F/C wickets at 24. He'd clueless when there's no swing

a bit like Anderson.... some people say  ;) ;) :o :o :( :(













PS - thats not me by the way  :) :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 13, 2016, 01:27:14 PM
Updated ICC player rankings out. R Ashwin has become the first Indian bowler to ever break the 900 point barrier. 5th best ranking for a spinner ever.

Kohli has moved within 9 points of Steven Smith.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 13, 2016, 01:33:43 PM
a bit like Anderson.... some people say  ;) ;) :o :o :( :(













PS - thats not me by the way  :) :)

Anderson is coming back from injury he's  taken wickets all around the world
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 13, 2016, 01:36:19 PM
interesting Jayant Yadav in at 56 in the batting - thats above KL Rahul, Patal, Gambhir and Saha

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 13, 2016, 01:42:44 PM
this is interesting -

http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/ (http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/)

then hover over the 'mens test statistics' and there is a 'best ever ratings' to click on -

Batting is Bradman 961 points in 1948

Bowling - SF Barnes 932 points in 1914

putting it into perspective currently no.1 batting is Smith on 897 points and no.1 bowling is Ashwin on 904 points.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on December 13, 2016, 01:46:00 PM
Talking of fringe seamers, those knocking at the door etc - has anyone actually seen Sam Curran bowl?

I believe he is a left-armer, and therefore may offer some variety to the attack. He's in the Lions squad, is he any good - could he jump the queue?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 13, 2016, 01:48:24 PM
this is interesting -

the best ever ratings -

Batting is Bradman 961 points in 1948

[url]http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/[/url] ([url]http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/[/url])

Bowling - SF Barnes 932 points in 1914


putting it into perspective currently no.1 batting is Smith on 897 points and no.1 bowling is Ashwin on 904 points.




[url]http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/[/url] ([url]http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/[/url])


No disrespect to Ashwin but this is why stats can be ssssooooo misleading... 
How many of those points have been amassed during the past 12 months AWAY from India...
Same with Steve "flat track from a drop in pitch" smith...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 13, 2016, 01:48:37 PM
Woakes stays -  he was the best bowler last summer and is a natural successor to Anderson but better with the bat.

If he ends up at 10 we will have a long tail!

I think Sri Lanka were a poor side and Pakistan  struggled with  the cold weather   picticualy up at Durham .
Let's see what woakes  and the others can do when the tests start in July when the sun pops out that  should  help tell us who  replaces Anderson
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 13, 2016, 01:49:26 PM
this is interesting -

[url]http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/[/url] ([url]http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/[/url])

then hover over the 'mens test statistics' and there is a 'best ever ratings' to click on -

Batting is Bradman 961 points in 1948

Bowling - SF Barnes 932 points in 1914

putting it into perspective currently no.1 batting is Smith on 897 points and no.1 bowling is Ashwin on 904 points.

Steven Smith's all time best was 936
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 13, 2016, 01:51:39 PM
No disrespect to Ashwin but this is why stats can be ssssooooo misleading... 
How many of those points have been amassed during the past 12 months AWAY from India...
Same with Steve "flat track from a drop in pitch" smith...
So Smith's 3 100s in England where a figure of my imagination?  :o
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 13, 2016, 01:52:37 PM
Talking of fringe seamers, those knocking at the door etc - has anyone actually seen Sam Curran bowl?

I believe he is a left-armer, and therefore may offer some variety to the attack. He's in the Lions squad, is he any good - could he jump the queue?

I would personally have him and Tom in.the one day squad for champions trophy...
Both excellent bowlers and deserve chance above Jordan, Finn and Woakes. Sams batting has really come on. As shown in recent lions tour, he and Tom can get their heads down and score runs if there has been a collapse..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 13, 2016, 01:54:50 PM
So Smith's 3 100s in England where a figure of my imagination?  :o

When was that Felix? You mean that big 100 at lords where my Gran would have made a 100 ( and she is no longer with us).. And England threw their wickets away trying to get quick runs? ( that sounds familiar)..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Felix Tito on December 13, 2016, 01:59:53 PM
When was that Felix? You mean that big 100 at lords where my Gran would have made a 100 ( and she is no longer with us).. And England threw their wickets away trying to get quick runs? ( that sounds familiar)..
If x, y, z throw their wickets away it's their own fault.


So by that logic because we've been happy to throw wickets away in India, does that mean Kohli should do like wise? Heck no he's battered us black and blue...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: six and out on December 13, 2016, 02:05:14 PM
Talking of fringe seamers, those knocking at the door etc - has anyone actually seen Sam Curran bowl?

I believe he is a left-armer, and therefore may offer some variety to the attack. He's in the Lions squad, is he any good - could he jump the queue?

here you go Cat - this shows both Sam and Tom bowling....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xsTUSgUUVg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xsTUSgUUVg)

also Footitt.... what happened to him he did nothing at Surrey this year?

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 13, 2016, 02:10:56 PM
If x, y, z throw their wickets away it's their own fault.


So by that logic because we've been happy to throw wickets away in India, does that mean Kohli should do like wise? Heck no he's battered us black and blue...

Not sure what you mean Felix... I am not sure that  if England had batted with the same common sense as India had in this series, that we would have won any of the last 3 tests. Infact the way Pujura and Kohli have batted reminds me of how,magnificent Laxman was against the Aussies all those years ago...

My point about Steve Smith in England was that when he made his big 100,  Englands batting display was amongst the worst 5 I have seen in my life time based on standard of opposition and conditions...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on December 13, 2016, 03:10:00 PM
here you go Cat - this shows both Sam and Tom bowling....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xsTUSgUUVg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xsTUSgUUVg)

also Footitt.... what happened to him he did nothing at Surrey this year?

Hmm, doesn't look particularly quick, but without it hooping around he seems to bowl a pretty tidy line.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 13, 2016, 03:13:50 PM
steve smith in England did score big runs, yes 3 tons. didn't help Australia win the series.

he's got stats that say he is a top class player

personally i'd rather watched a mechanic change a tyre on a car that watch him bat.

but that's just IMHO

 :)
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: alexhilly1492 on December 13, 2016, 03:18:38 PM
So Smith's 3 100s in England where a figure of my imagination?  :o

im sure these were all on flat wickets that were described as roads?

nothing more than a flat track bully
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 13, 2016, 03:57:03 PM
steve smith in England did score big runs, yes 3 tons. didn't help Australia win the series.

he's got stats that say he is a top class player

personally i'd rather watched a mechanic change a tyre on a car that watch him bat.

but that's just IMHO

 :)

To be honest I only remember 2 in the test matches. One at "road" that is lords and the other at the Oval... Don't really need to comment on the Oval...😊😊
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 13, 2016, 04:44:07 PM
On a slightly different note not sure this is still the 'Cook' thread I suppose it is, we are on England v India  :)

Vic Marks in the Guardian questioning the selectors choices for this tour and how impartial they can be still associated to their clubs. Tricky one this not sure there is an ideal situation for selectors to choose players

Would they push their own players?  Hmmmmm..... they would know their character better, they would  also want them representing England.....

also if sure Cook will be gone as Captain by July. that's a guess of course only Cook will know. I think it will prove right thou and that's a shame. Root should not automatically be given it, and the team is improving under Cook.

i'm sure others will disagree but he is still scoring runs and leading the team. Not convinced myself Root is the right man anyway.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 13, 2016, 05:00:24 PM
Root proved he was the right manny bringing himself on, looking the most dangerous England have for 4 overs before cookie returned and out a stop to his pesky shenanigans!!!



That was a joke, we will only know if root is right if or when he takes over. Same with stokes and or buttler.

Personally for test I believe root is the man.
I reckons toles will end up like flintoff/kp and short lived, if he did get the role.
I'm not yet convinced buttler should be in the side yet.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 13, 2016, 05:08:02 PM
I think Cook may stay as Capt for the tour to Aus the 1st test is Nov 2017 and then step down as the selectors won't want ta new Capt to start off in Aus   also believe  Buttler is  not that  far behind  in the running for The Captainacy.
Also think a few on here could have done a better job picking the squad for this tour than the selectors
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 13, 2016, 05:09:57 PM
I think Cook may stay as Capt for the tour to Aus the 1st test is Nov 2017 and then step down as the selectors won't want ta new Capt to start off in Aus   also believe  Buttler is  not that  far behind  in the running for The Captainacy.
Also think a few on here could have done a better job picking the squad for this tour than the selectors
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 13, 2016, 05:21:00 PM
I would personally have him and Tom in.the one day squad for champions trophy...
Both excellent bowlers and deserve chance above Jordan, Finn and Woakes. Sams batting has really come on. As shown in recent lions tour, he and Tom can get their heads down and score runs if there has been a collapse..

Neither of the brothers are as good as Woakes..

Not saying there not going to be just not at the minute but that only my opinion...
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: smilley792 on December 13, 2016, 05:24:34 PM
Neither of the brothers are as good as Woakes..

Not saying there not going to be just not at the minute but that only my opinion...

I watched tom bowl at root and bairstow for a day at headingley earlier this year. On that pitch on that day he didn't bother either of them once.

Different pitch different day could have been a different result. But it's all woakes in India again. The mass won't be happy with wickets at home on green tops. People have to steam through sides on unfamiliar pitches to be rated at all apparently
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 13, 2016, 05:28:25 PM
Woakes is quality for England and has been for quite a while. India aside where very few can say anything.

Woakes is a quality all rounder and I expect him to get better and the improvent he has shown.

I
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: FattusCattus on December 13, 2016, 06:08:35 PM
I'm going to throw Roland-Jones into the equation. From the bits I have seen, I think he has as much about him as Tom Curran.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Alvaro on December 13, 2016, 07:52:34 PM
Don't forget he was in the squad for the Lord's Test. TRJ is a great county bowler, but does he have the required nip?
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 13, 2016, 08:42:56 PM
Woakes is quality for England and has been for quite a while. India aside where very few can say anything.

Woakes is a quality all rounder and I expect him to get better and the improvent he has shown.

I
Well  Dave can he get any worse  also with just two fiftys in 17 tests wouldnt call him a quality all rounder
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 13, 2016, 08:45:32 PM
I would say he will grow more into the role.

You look at 50 his average is ok for a number 8 well was above stokes before this series.

Also our quickest bowler

So stokes only averages 5 more per innings and for a guy batting in our top order is not good enough just saying like I know averages are not everything
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 13, 2016, 08:52:29 PM
I would say he will grow more into the role.

You look at 50 his average is ok for a number 8 well was above stokes before this series.

Also our quickest bowler

So stokes only averages 5 more per innings and for a guy batting in our top order is not good enough just saying like I know averages are not everything
Yes he's quick but isn't  a fit and firing Mark wood quicker
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 13, 2016, 08:53:48 PM
Yes he's quick but isn't  a fit and firing Mark wood quicker

Thought we are talking about all rounders

And when Wood gonna happen ???? 

End of the day Woakes is quality weather you pull up and stats you want I know you don't like him an love to pull the crap stays out but Woakes is a proven test cricketer and has proven when you give him a run he usually does well
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 13, 2016, 09:17:15 PM
Thought we are talking about all rounders

And when Wood gonna happen ???? 

End of the day Woakes is quality weather you pull up and stats you want I know you don't like him an love to pull the crap stays out but Woakes is a proven test cricketer and has proven when you give him a run he usually does well

Don't dislike him just don't believe he is good enough to be called an all rounder  or should currently be in the England team also can't see what he's done to quoted as a proven test cricketer one good season on green tops is okay but you have to be consistent around the world with bat and ball.
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: tate035 on December 13, 2016, 09:28:40 PM
I would say he will grow more into the role.

You look at 50 his average is ok for a number 8 well was above stokes before this series.

Also our quickest bowler

So stokes only averages 5 more per innings and for a guy batting in our top order is not good enough just saying like I know averages are not everything

Are you saying Woakes should be ahead of Stokes?  not for me. Infact in English conditions and with a new ball I would have Stokes ahead of Woakes.
Stokes bowling reminds me a lot of Simon Jones.. Very under rated and could make a ball talk in certain conditions. Infact England only realised how good he was when the injury cut his career short and he was no longer available.
I admire Woakes for how hard he has worked and every aspiring player can use him as a benchmark for what hard work gets you... But he IMHO is not on the same planet as Stokes..
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: Woodyspin on December 13, 2016, 10:23:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5HnQ8fLVVU&ab_channel=CricketArchivesHD (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5HnQ8fLVVU&ab_channel=CricketArchivesHD) why haven't we played spin like this, this series? quick singles, decisive safe shots...

and one of the strangest keeping techniques i've ever seen
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: dcullen8 on December 13, 2016, 10:27:46 PM
why haven't we played spin like this, this series? quick singles, decisive safe shots...

Little James Taylor would of solved all these problems!
Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: procricket on December 14, 2016, 07:16:54 AM
Are you saying Woakes should be ahead of Stokes?  not for me. Infact in English conditions and with a new ball I would have Stokes ahead of Woakes.
Stokes bowling reminds me a lot of Simon Jones.. Very under rated and could make a ball talk in certain conditions. Infact England only realised how good he was when the injury cut his career short and he was no longer available.
I admire Woakes for how hard he has worked and every aspiring player can use him as a benchmark for what hard work gets you... But he IMHO is not on the same planet as Stokes..

I'm not suggesting that I'm suggesting he is rightly placed behind him in the que of all rounders and in my
Opinion is a better bowler than stokes consistently.

Title: Re: India v England Test Series
Post by: ppccopener on December 14, 2016, 08:40:23 AM
I'm not suggesting that I'm suggesting he is rightly placed behind him in the que of all rounders and in my
Opinion is a better bowler than stokes consistently.



the thing is bowling in the sub continent our medium pacers look ordinary, they all do. it been they case for as long as I can remember touring there.

As you rightly say thou Woakes is actually our quickest bowler and I'd never have though that a couple of years ago, I wondered prob with a lot of others why we picked the guy.

But he's come on and improving massively, we need his pace and having seen Jake Ball bowl as well-he is quick and gets bounce. we need guys to take over from Anderson eventually, it's going to be Woakes i'm