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Author Topic: Whither England Now?  (Read 1863 times)

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FattusCattus

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Whither England Now?
« on: April 03, 2018, 08:06:07 AM »

So, what happens now? Are any lessons learnt, are any changes made?  we leave the antipodes with more questions than answers and yet again must look to our overseas form and our adaptability.

Suggested issues to be addressed:

Bayliss - is he the real deal and should he be in charge of the test team?

Cook - is he dropped or allowed to finish on his own terms?

Batting - have we ruined our test batters with a glut of T20 and ODI's - and do we care any more?

Spin - Do we have a captain and coach who underestimate the importance of it?

Variety - Are we blinkered into thinking the 90's ideas of 4 right arm medium-quicks is ok? If we can't produce out and out quicks, should we be working on bounce and angle of delivery?

Leadership - Do we have a suitable captain in place and do we get the best out of him as a batter whilst he captains?


I can't put my finger on it, but we lack some input somewhere from a lateral-thinking, recent international player, be that Collingwood, Vaughan, Gillespie, Langer, Smith - someone who can tell it how it is from a playing viewpoint.
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Gurujames

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Re: Whither England Now?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2018, 08:18:51 AM »

Certainly not the only issues but for me Root lacks charisma as a captain.
Other issues are of course the batsmen don't score enough runs and the bowlers don't get enough wickets. Leach should have played more but I feel that all of the 'best' players have been given an opportunity but none of them have made a telling impact on a consistent basis.
The quality just isn't there at the moment.
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Big Mac

Re: Whither England Now?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2018, 08:38:00 AM »

I cannot remember the last England captain who knew how to handle a spinner. Swann was great but I'm inclined to attribute that success to the fact that he was around 29 when he made his test debut so knew his game inside out, the fields that he wanted and he wasn't shy to tell the captain what he wanted.

Every other spinner that comes through is treated exactly the same way. Throw them the ball an over before lunch but the seamers get the ball back from both ends when play resumes. Get a couple of overs in the afternoon session but god forbid they get hit for a boundary because they'll get yanked out of the attack for more boring identikit medium-fast rubbish.

Fast forward to the 4th innings and the spinner is expected to pull miracles out of his backside while the captain panics and starts fiddling with the field or coming over to chat with the spinner twice an over.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 08:40:11 AM by Big Mac »
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Number4

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Re: Whither England Now?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2018, 08:58:55 AM »

Certainly not the only issues but for me Root lacks charisma as a captain.
Other issues are of course the batsmen don't score enough runs and the bowlers don't get enough wickets. Leach should have played more but I feel that all of the 'best' players have been given an opportunity but none of them have made a telling impact on a consistent basis.
The quality just isn't there at the moment.

I think Root is a great player but unfortunately I dont think he is a very good captain at all.  He didnt really start attacking and putting pressure on the batsmen till the last 10-15 overs and when he did that they took a wicket... Too late Im afraid. I dont think they would replace him as Captain but I certainly think they should... Just let him bat. If Stokes is going to be in the side then bowl him for Gods sake... He is a bloody all rounder... and one of the best...
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Big Mac

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Re: Whither England Now?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2018, 09:08:08 AM »

I think Root is a great player but unfortunately I dont think he is a very good captain at all.  He didnt really start attacking and putting pressure on the batsmen till the last 10-15 overs and when he did that they took a wicket... Too late Im afraid. I dont think they would replace him as Captain but I certainly think they should... Just let him bat. If Stokes is going to be in the side then bowl him for Gods sake... He is a bloody all rounder... and one of the best...

Stokes didn't bowl much because he's got a dodgy back at the moment and is in the middle of remodelling his action.
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ppccopener

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Re: Whither England Now?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2018, 09:17:19 AM »

I think Root is a great player but unfortunately I dont think he is a very good captain at all.  He didnt really start attacking and putting pressure on the batsmen till the last 10-15 overs and when he did that they took a wicket... Too late Im afraid. I dont think they would replace him as Captain but I certainly think they should... Just let him bat. If Stokes is going to be in the side then bowl him for Gods sake... He is a bloody all rounder... and one of the best...

Spot on. Root is not a captain he just needs to concentrate on being the best batsman he can be

Jack leach bowled well I thought I would have Anderson as skipper

From there...the rest of the side can be sorted
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rickjames

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Re: Whither England Now?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2018, 09:25:18 AM »

Is this another thread where people pluck names from the sky?

Either way I'm delighted James Whitaker is no longer a selector and the others have to reapply for their roles
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Big Mac

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Re: Whither England Now?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2018, 09:28:15 AM »

I made a note on my phone to save the date (Last year) That Root isn't the man to lead England in tests.

Trouble is, England wont do that. It's almost as if Root needs to bat at 3 and England bring in a number 4 to specifically captain the side. However to be that radical they need to have the b4lls, this won't happen and a very similar test looking side will be announced for the first test of the summer

Why does Root need to bat at 3? Be warned that if you say any variant of "The best batsman bats at #3" I will have to try very hard to not off on a huge rant about how it's complete (No Swearing Please).
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Number4

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Re: Whither England Now?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2018, 09:38:25 AM »

Spot on. Root is not a captain he just needs to concentrate on being the best batsman he can be

Jack leach bowled well I thought I would have Anderson as skipper

From there...the rest of the side can be sorted

I think Andersons shot at Captain has passed him by... He is 35... not too many games left in him... Any other options who will be around for a long time to come?
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19reading87

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Re: Whither England Now?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2018, 10:10:11 AM »

Why does Root need to bat at 3? Be warned that if you say any variant of "The best batsman bats at #3" I will have to try very hard to not off on a huge rant about how it's complete (No Swearing Please).

For me he isn't the best batsman in the test team, however, I feel he would offer more there than Vince and can't see any other genuine number 3s around. I'd sooner have somebody new in at 4/5

Note, in my opinion our best batsman is Bairstow
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Gurujames

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Re: Whither England Now?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2018, 10:20:12 AM »

What is a genuine no 3? Isn't it just another opener ready to go in an shore things up if you lose an early wicket? I think the top 5 should really be fairly interchangeable. People get a bit caught up in the fact that 'I've always batted no. 2' mentality. At the end of the day if your a good player you should be able to bat effectively anywhere in the top order.
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19reading87

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Re: Whither England Now?
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2018, 10:25:14 AM »

What is a genuine no 3? Isn't it just another opener ready to go in an shore things up if you lose an early wicket? I think the top 5 should really be fairly interchangeable. People get a bit caught up in the fact that 'I've always batted no. 2' mentality. At the end of the day if your a good player you should be able to bat effectively anywhere in the top order.

For me I look at people like Ponting, Trott, Sanga those people were genuine number 3's, in my opinion
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mattdawson

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Re: Whither England Now?
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2018, 11:22:52 AM »

Throwing my 10p in, I'd personally put malan up at 3, not had a great NZ tour but who did from those that went home and returned. I like his grit and determination and was possibly the best batsman on show in OZ which I certainly didn't expect.

I also think Vince is worth another shot but swap him and malan around, maybe odd but hear me out. When I watch him I think of Bell, lovely, flamboyant player to watch bat when in full flow, protect him a bit more against a moving ball and he'll be a good batter capable of scoring heavily.

I agree with most, Root doesn't appear best fit for a captain to me, his persona appears to me that he's slightly friendly with everyone, that could mean that he may not want to upset people, he's a likeable character, let him be the batter everyone knows he's capable of and play his jokes in the changing room which may relax him more and allow him to forget the pressure of professional sport. I'm probably way off the mark with that analysis, as you don't see everything but its my perception from snippets you do see.

My captain? Bairstow, he speaks so well about the game in detail, comes across as a great thinker of the game, but is keeping, batting and being a skipper too much, probably and I wouldn't take the gloves off him thats for sure.

Another failing imo is England's naivety towards spin. They have a batting coach, fast bowling coach, fielding coach, head coach, any other coach/specialist on every tour, why not a spin bowling one? At the minute they have a consultant, what use is a person that they can only use x number of days per year, when most of which become used whenever an asian side tour. take Ali for eg, he may well not be good enough to be Englands no 1 spinner, but how can he develop/improve or just get out of a rut when there isn't a specialist there that he can talk to get ideas from?

But I think the biggest downfall is the neglect that England pay to test cricket away from home, they play barely any tour matches any more to help them prepare or go out in time to get used to conditions, instead they play more ODI's and T20 because of money, understandable it is a business, but doesn't help the players.
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Alvaro

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Re: Whither England Now?
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2018, 11:54:22 AM »

Bring back Mike Brearley.
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Buzz

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Re: Whither England Now?
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2018, 11:59:03 AM »

The new selector should be allowed a blank sheet of paper. I also think Bayliss should be stepped down and Farbrace should be the test coach.

After that Strauss, the coach and the new selector need to agree who the right guy is to captain the side and then build up from there.

I am against throwing names of players around as there are many ways to skin that cat, but as far as I am concerned all the players, including Root should be told to go away and win your place back.
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