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Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on December 31, 2017, 04:23:33 PM

Title: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on December 31, 2017, 04:23:33 PM
So,
  The new MCC rules are in place. What are everyoneís views on the bats being produced by any or all brands now? Are we seeing essentially the same or are we seeing more full profiles at Luther widths due to not being able to build super big bats..

Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Sivlar13 on December 31, 2017, 05:02:02 PM
It annoys me, if Iím honest. I feel it makes no difference to the cricket actually played and it means that almost all bat shapes are very similar.

It used to be a challenge to see how big you could go and being able to go nuts with bat shapes was really exciting. Now though itís become massively restricted which is rubbish.

Kippax especially used to make incredibly huge bats, and now, itís just another normal shape and size. Boring.
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: JB on December 31, 2017, 05:09:57 PM
For the reasons that youíve stated @Sivlar13 itíll vastly reduce my bat buying
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Woodyspin on December 31, 2017, 05:57:24 PM
Has noone seen the sixes Gayle has hit since the regulations? Huge.

Regulations have done (No Swearing Please) all.
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: smilley792 on December 31, 2017, 06:14:38 PM
Regulation gave nothing to do with the current six hitting.

Its once again a rule bought into force without the proper people asked do listen to.

I haven't bought a bat this winter and don't Intend to.


Infact I made myself a small rule. If I see any manufacturer on twitter showing off there "bat gauge" I won't buy a bat from them again.
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Northern monkey on December 31, 2017, 06:19:16 PM
Total joke of a reg

Boycott was still winging about big bats on commentary the other day
Dinosaurs like him that's responsible for this stupidity

What next? Limit bat speed? Bicep size? Etc
Tools the lot of em
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on December 31, 2017, 06:29:24 PM
Barry Richards is still banging on about bats being too big.
He wants 35mm edges as a maximum.

I fail to see how a thinner edge will stop a ball travelling so far when middled though...
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on December 31, 2017, 06:43:38 PM
I was more thinking about what brands are offering tbh rather than the rights or wrongs of the regulation. Are we seeing more bats which are fuller in profile at lighter weights? Are we seeing that nothing has changed ? Are brands getting more and more alike ? Stuff like that
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Alvaro on December 31, 2017, 06:45:50 PM
How is Rob P getting along with the new regs, Adie?
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Sivlar13 on December 31, 2017, 06:57:45 PM
Everything looks the same!!
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: JB on December 31, 2017, 08:09:47 PM
Brands arenít peaking my interest
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on December 31, 2017, 08:18:23 PM
How is Rob P getting along with the new regs, Adie?

So, Iíve noticed that far more bats are coming out at 2.7/8/9 range which are full profile. Hence why i asked what others experience was. I went in to a retailer a week or so ago and there didnít appear to be much difference and still more 2.11/12/13 weight bats.
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Biggie Smalls on December 31, 2017, 08:51:54 PM
For me , gn oz changes is the most depressing thing .
Also , now I'm not nearly as interested in as many brands/shapes etc as so much just seem samey .
However,  the regs have altered what i would look for now....future purchases will be more about coverage /elongated sweetspots etc . Ie / gn scoop 17 and b3 beluga would be the two bats I'd want if buying today .
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: GDP1964 on December 31, 2017, 10:00:15 PM
The only time a bat gauge will be used by me is too make sure The Bats used by my Proffesional Players are Lrgal for them .
Other than that when ever possible the biggest and lightest Clefts will be sourced to make the biggest profiles possible and as for bats ranging from size 0-6 we will be turning out as many possible LAMINATES as this is now possible  and legal with MCC approval this has been introduced to bring the costs down for Junior Players watch these little bats ping
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Buzz on December 31, 2017, 11:48:04 PM
for bats ranging from size 0-6 we will be turning out as many possible LAMINATES as this is now possible  and legal with MCC approval this has been introduced to bring the costs down for Junior Players watch these little bats ping

Who knew! My son will be raiding my bat stash as soon as he can lift them...!
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Gurujames on January 01, 2018, 09:41:37 AM
Other than that when ever possible the biggest and lightest Clefts will be sourced to make the biggest profiles possible and as for bats ranging from size 0-6 we will be turning out as many possible LAMINATES as this is now possible  and legal with MCC approval this has been introduced to bring the costs down for Junior Players watch these little bats ping
What will these sell for and how do we get one?
Thanks
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Seniorplayer on January 01, 2018, 10:27:01 AM
The only time a bat gauge will be used by me is too make sure The Bats used by my Proffesional Players are Lrgal for them .
Other than that when ever possible the biggest and lightest Clefts will be sourced to make the biggest profiles possible and as for bats ranging from size 0-6 we will be turning out as many possible LAMINATES as this is now possible  and legal with MCC approval this has been introduced to bring the costs down for Junior Players watch these little bats ping

Also interested in getting one.
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Calzehbhoy on January 01, 2018, 11:27:04 AM
The only time a bat gauge will be used by me is too make sure The Bats used by my Proffesional Players are Lrgal for them .
Other than that when ever possible the biggest and lightest Clefts will be sourced to make the biggest profiles possible and as for bats ranging from size 0-6 we will be turning out as many possible LAMINATES as this is now possible  and legal with MCC approval this has been introduced to bring the costs down for Junior Players watch these little bats ping

Anybody else tempted to order one in each size for their kid as they grow up? 🤣
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: GDP1964 on January 01, 2018, 12:26:10 PM
South Africa are making 10 up for me in Respect to all Forum Sponsors I don't want to use this Forum as a selling or advertising campaign which I am not entitled too  I can be contacted through our UK website .
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Sitonit on January 02, 2018, 04:40:12 AM
Bat regulations only seem to have targeted and effected David Warner.
Almost everyone else's bat in the internatinal arena is either within limits or not too far off.

So we won't see much of a difference in "raining sixes" phenomenon.

IMO, the bat regulations should have been, a 35 mm max edge and 55 mm max spine - but more importantly, a boundary line with at least 80 meters distance in ALL directions from the wicket.

A miss hit should be caught and not land for a six - THAT'S the problem!
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: manno on January 02, 2018, 06:07:20 AM
Is it really a problem though?

In this Ashes series so far, how many miss hits do you recall clearing the ropes for 6?
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: sarg on January 02, 2018, 06:27:40 AM
So, Iíve noticed that far more bats are coming out at 2.7/8/9 range which are full profile. Hence why i asked what others experience was. I went in to a retailer a week or so ago and there didnít appear to be much difference and still more 2.11/12/13 weight bats.

Generally a majority of bats were at that 40 mm range. The 1-3mm concave has not changed too dramatically. Some have adopted smaller spines (60-62mm) but extended the middle with less dramatic peaks. You won't see a GM Zona again thank goodness.
The big change is the big brands have started to shift back to the 4-5mm face camber as the 2 mm flatter face camber which made a average bat appear to have a 41-43 mm with sharp edges is pointless.

I wonder what comes in 2018/19? I think the GN Atomic shape is the blueprint most will follow.
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Jaffa on January 02, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
But in the Ashes (or most tests for that matter) the emphasis is firstly not to get out. Play sensible shots and amass a score that forces the other team to take the risks I would have thought.
Watching England's first innings they looked afraid to play their natural shots and were being defensive.
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: jimmy23 on January 02, 2018, 07:46:03 AM
Hasnít made much difference in the Big Bash

Still hitting it out the ground/onto the roof on regular occasions
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Number4 on January 02, 2018, 08:01:05 AM
Generally a majority of bats were at that 40 mm range. The 1-3mm concave has not changed too dramatically. Some have adopted smaller spines (60-62mm) but extended the middle with less dramatic peaks. You won't see a GM Zona again thank goodness.
The big change is the big brands have started to shift back to the 4-5mm face camber as the 2 mm flatter face camber which made a average bat appear to have a 41-43 mm with sharp edges is pointless.

I wonder what comes in 2018/19? I think the GN Atomic shape is the blueprint most will follow.

My favourite shape at the moment
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: sarg on January 02, 2018, 01:26:02 PM
My favourite shape at the moment

Sneaky plug for my next review bat too haha.
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on January 02, 2018, 05:15:19 PM
Hasnít made much difference in the Big Bash

Still hitting it out the ground/onto the roof on regular occasions

Flat tracks
Tiny grounds (rope brought in)
Format
Field restrictions

Etc etc

Bats simply didnít have much effect compared to any of the above
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: ppccopener on January 02, 2018, 06:56:16 PM
Flat tracks
Tiny grounds (rope brought in)
Format
Field restrictions

Etc etc

Bats simply didnít have much effect compared to any of the above

Yes there has been much debate on the forum about the size of bats, and very interesting it has been too, the smaller boundaries , field restrictions, pitches made for batting and the physical strength and fitness of players today compared to back in the 70's or 80's have to Be a major factor.

Personally I'm a bit I undecided  myself whether a over dried bat with 70 MM spine and 50 MM edges actually makes the ball go further.

At Lords in 1984(I Started early I'm not that old!!) I saw GG get 200 against us, I was square of the wicket and I didn't think I would ever see the ball hit harder or faster, I then saw Botham live at against the Aussies,and hook McDermott into the stands-I still don't think to this day I have seen a ball hit harder or further.

I then saw Viv Richards bat in the Lords museum and my own bat is 2 or 3 times the physical size of it.

So you're spot on mentioning ground size and fielding restrictions added to stronger players who practice range hitting as more important factors.

What would Botham or Richards do with modern day bats? The answer on here is always hit it further than they did'

I understand the logic.....I'm just not convinced 

That is of course my totally unscientific opinion...and I don't want to start a 40 pages thread on why I'm wrong-because I could well be  :) :)
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: JK Lewis on January 02, 2018, 08:08:49 PM
Yes there has been much debate on the forum about the size of bats, and very interesting it has been too, the smaller boundaries , field restrictions, pitches made for batting and the physical strength and fitness of players today compared to back in the 70's or 80's have to Be a major factor.

Personally I'm a bit I undecided  myself whether a over dried bat with 70 MM spine and 50 MM edges actually makes the ball go further.

At Lords in 1984(I Started early I'm not that old!!) I saw GG get 200 against us, I was square of the wicket and I didn't think I would ever see the ball hit harder or faster, I then saw Botham live at against the Aussies,and hook McDermott into the stands-I still don't think to this day I have seen a ball hit harder or further.

I then saw Viv Richards bat in the Lords museum and my own bat is 2 or 3 times the physical size of it.

So you're spot on mentioning ground size and fielding restrictions added to stronger players who practice range hitting as more important factors.

What would Botham or Richards do with modern day bats? The answer on here is always hit it further than they did'

I understand the logic.....I'm just not convinced 

That is of course my totally unscientific opinion...and I don't want to start a 40 pages thread on why I'm wrong-because I could well be  :) :)

Agreed, legends like those could have made their shots with any sort of bat. I suppose the modern bats may have helped boost the figures of journeyman players, but we'll never really know.

Seems to me if they really have an issue with the balance between bat and ball, it would be more effective to make the wicket an inch wider and 3 inches taller, something like that. Don't try to penalise the hit, better make the miss more expensive.
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Gurujames on January 02, 2018, 08:13:59 PM
The white ball doesn't do enough for the bowler. On any half decent wicket any pitched up delivery can be hit through the line, anything short dispatched square.
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: InternalTraining on January 02, 2018, 08:19:42 PM

I then saw Viv Richards bat in the Lords museum and my own bat is 2 or 3 times the physical size of it.


If I remember correctly, he used a 3 lb bat.

I have never really received a clear answer on whether the volume adds any performance (distance) to a bat i.e. whether two bats of same weight but different volume perform differently. Maybe volume enlarges the sweet spot? I know from experience, my 2-10 XP-80 2000 goes like a rocket from the huge middle.
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: edge on January 02, 2018, 08:34:27 PM
If you take two otherwise identical bats, but one has a thicker cross-sectional area, that bat will be stiffer in bending and will therefore perform better. Not by very much though, given the margins concerned.
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on January 02, 2018, 11:14:25 PM
People also forget about mentality. Modern players are brought up to be fearless and not worry about getting out. It damages red ball Cricket but for white ball they are happy to take risks. Historically generally less were willing to do that. Add to that the fact modern bigger bats donít hit it further, but they do have bigger sweet spots and more wood off centre meaning miss hits still travel..

So, if back in the day you knew If you didnít Middle it there was a 80% chance youíd be out you wouldnít risk the shot. Now, less risk and more reward so the risk is taken by batters
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Big Mac on January 03, 2018, 12:05:19 PM
Albert Trott hit the ball over the Lords pavilion almost 120 years ago and nobody has done it since, look at the monstrous edges on this bat

(http://p.imgci.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/91200/91278.jpg)
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Northern monkey on January 03, 2018, 06:40:35 PM
Look at that hat!!

Batting in fielding pads,,and where's the bat? All I can see is a toothpick
I'd struggle getting it off the square with that

Serious kudos

And I'm on eBay now trying to find one of those 🎩
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: JK Lewis on January 04, 2018, 12:23:13 PM
Albert Trott hit the ball over the Lords pavilion almost 120 years ago and nobody has done it since, look at the monstrous edges on this bat

([url]http://p.imgci.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/91200/91278.jpg[/url])


Interesting comment about Trott, from Wikipedia:

'Trott was widely acknowledged as the finest all-round cricketer of his day. A true student of the game, Trott's bowling relied less on pace than it did on guile and spin; his variations ensured that a batsman rarely faced the same ball twice in an over. Trott was a dynamo in the field, with the ball seldom escaping his commodious clutch. He regularly turned matches for Middlesex with his powerful hitting, using a 3 pounds (1.4 kg) bat, at least half a pound heavier than was then usual.'
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: mo_town on January 04, 2018, 12:32:45 PM
I have always wondered, how did the bat makers manage to make such thin looking bats so heavy! would be very interesting to see what a player can do with a 3 pound bat so thin!
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: brokenbat on January 04, 2018, 01:03:01 PM
I have always wondered, how did the bat makers manage to make such thin looking bats so heavy! would be very interesting to see what a player can do with a 3 pound bat so thin!

i think the only difference "crazy edges" bring, is that mishits carry a bit further.. as in, will clear the 30 yard circle. thats about it. all these "monstrous" hits today have nothing to do with bat dimensions ("F=M x a" afterall). players spend time training specifically to clear the ground, and they're obviously better at it than former greats. leaving aside the actual technique of power hitting, just look at videos of current players in the gym, doing oly lifting etc - wonder how many of those Geoff Boycott could do in his prime..
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Big Mac on January 04, 2018, 01:21:00 PM
I have always wondered, how did the bat makers manage to make such thin looking bats so heavy! would be very interesting to see what a player can do with a 3 pound bat so thin!

Clefts nowadays are drier than they were back in the day, so the extra moisture content in older bats added weight. On top of that they were probably pressed to within an inch of their lives and soaked in linseed oil.

You don't have to go back all that far, plenty of people on this forum probably have bats that weigh 2.11 that have edges half the size of modern bats weighing 2.7
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: InternalTraining on January 04, 2018, 03:02:11 PM
Interesting comment about Trott, from Wikipedia:

'Trott was widely acknowledged as the finest all-round cricketer of his day. A true student of the game, Trott's bowling relied less on pace than it did on guile and spin; his variations ensured that a batsman rarely faced the same ball twice in an over. Trott was a dynamo in the field, with the ball seldom escaping his commodious clutch. He regularly turned matches for Middlesex with his powerful hitting, using a 3 pounds (1.4 kg) bat, at least half a pound heavier than was then usual.'

Thanks for posting this!!!

The original post would make people think that magical deeds were possible in the olden days with their tooth pick bats. How idiotic! Give this 3 pounder to a modern/today's batsman and ball will clear the Lords pavilion and the adjacent parking lot. Sheesh.

It's a god damned 3 pounder pressed so hard that it has the surface hardness of a steel plate!
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: mo_town on January 04, 2018, 04:02:09 PM
Thanks for posting this!!!

The original post would make people think that magical deeds were possible in the olden days with their tooth pick bats. How idiotic! Give this 3 pounder to a modern/today's batsman and ball will clear the Lords pavilion and the adjacent parking lot. Sheesh.

It's a god damned 3 pounder pressed so hard that it has the surface hardness of a steel plate!

If thats the truth then why dont modern players use such bats instead of the ones with big edges? Is it only for mis hits?
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: InternalTraining on January 04, 2018, 04:11:14 PM
If thats the truth then why dont modern players use such bats instead of the ones with big edges? Is it only for mis hits?

Same reason people wear Gore-Tex jackets instead of waxed cotton.
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: ppccopener on January 04, 2018, 04:35:17 PM
Anyone else LŲvin the outfit this dude has on?
Walking out to bat with a hat looking class

Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: springbok45 on January 04, 2018, 04:43:22 PM
Thanks for posting this!!!

The original post would make people think that magical deeds were possible in the olden days with their tooth pick bats. How idiotic! Give this 3 pounder to a modern/today's batsman and ball will clear the Lords pavilion and the adjacent parking lot. Sheesh.

It's a god damned 3 pounder pressed so hard that it has the surface hardness of a steel plate!

Considering the Middlesex boys have tried with their current gear on a couple of occasions and not got it I doubt it, check the videos on YouTube
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: InternalTraining on January 04, 2018, 05:49:30 PM
Considering the Middlesex boys have tried with their current gear on a couple of occasions and not got it I doubt it, check the videos on YouTube

How many sixes did that guy hit through out his career? I say, he got lucky that day. He hit the ball very high and there was enough wind to carry it over the pavilion.

We simply don't know those conditions (in which he hit that mighty six) and attributing all that to his skill is not accurate nor fair. Let's recreate the conditions, ball speed, wind speed, and give that tooth-pick 3 pounder to McCullum, Gayle, or Morgan and see where the ball lands.

Albert Trott got lucky. There. I said it. He couldn't consistently hit that big six and I wonder how many sixes did he hit thru his career.
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: InternalTraining on January 04, 2018, 05:54:23 PM
Considering the Middlesex boys have tried with their current gear on a couple of occasions and not got it I doubt it, check the videos on YouTube

I saw one with McCullum. Fuller nearly did hit it. They are also using the Bola machine balls (with dimples) and not the real cherries/cricket balls. I wonder how would a brand new ball would behave when hit that hard and high.

Again, this doesn't replicate the condition under which Trott hit his six and quite frankly I feel that a lot is made about that mighty six these days. Today's batsmen have far better technique for hitting sixes and better physiques too. It is only a matter of time before Trott's feat becomes the norm. :)
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: JK Lewis on January 04, 2018, 06:12:46 PM
How many sixes did that guy hit through out his career? I say, he got lucky that day. He hit the ball very high and there was enough wind to carry it over the pavilion.

We simply don't know those conditions (in which he hit that mighty six) and attributing all that to his skill is not accurate nor fair. Let's recreate the conditions, ball speed, wind speed, and give that tooth-pick 3 pounder to McCullum, Gayle, or Morgan and see where the ball lands.

Albert Trott got lucky. There. I said it. He couldn't consistently hit that big six and I wonder how many sixes did he hit thru his career.

I tend to agree. If it wasn't documented, I would have put the hit over the Lord's pavilion down to myth to be honest. But, it does appear that he did actually manage it which raises the question of what he was able to bring that no-one else has since.

Wikipedia is a little vague about the timing and details, we just know that Trott made the shot off a delivery from a chap called Monty Noble. This is what we know from Trott's own memories:

"Noble was bowling, and sending the balls down in pretty good style, and at last I struck at one," Trott told Boys' Own a few years later. "I was not very sure about it; and the next thing I saw was the ball looking like a pea in the air, and I learned then that it had just touched a chimney and nearly gone out of the ground."
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Six Sixes Cricket on January 04, 2018, 06:41:26 PM
Didnít mongoose offer a million quid or something daft to tressy? If he could do it?
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: ppccopener on January 04, 2018, 07:26:29 PM
Not sure what type of batting shorts they used to wear but from the photo the said batsman appears to be hung like the proverbial donkey.
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: edge on January 04, 2018, 07:57:33 PM
I tend to agree. If it wasn't documented, I would have put the hit over the Lord's pavilion down to myth to be honest. But, it does appear that he did actually manage it which raises the question of what he was able to bring that no-one else has since.

Wikipedia is a little vague about the timing and details, we just know that Trott made the shot off a delivery from a chap called Monty Noble. This is what we know from Trott's own memories:

"Noble was bowling, and sending the balls down in pretty good style, and at last I struck at one," Trott told Boys' Own a few years later. "I was not very sure about it; and the next thing I saw was the ball looking like a pea in the air, and I learned then that it had just touched a chimney and nearly gone out of the ground."
I can't find it now, but did read a very good article about it a few years back. Included some speculation about the bats in those days all being solely heartwood and whether that had anything to do with it.

Slightly harsh speculation about Trott getting lucky, was famously a massive hitter after all!
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Tom on January 04, 2018, 10:30:23 PM
Didnít mongoose offer a million quid or something daft to tressy? If he could do it?
That was never in a contract, but got a load of press for saying it!
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: Six Sixes Cricket on January 04, 2018, 11:11:26 PM
That was never in a contract, but got a load of press for saying it!
Thought so , I can remember it being on our local news channels
Title: Re: MCC Regularions -User Experience
Post by: FattusCattus on January 05, 2018, 08:43:00 AM
Not sure what type of batting shorts they used to wear but from the photo the said batsman appears to be hung like the proverbial donkey.

I think you'll find that's a mutton baguette, left over from lunch.