Custom Bats Cricket Forum

General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: csnew on January 17, 2018, 10:05:53 AM

Title: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: csnew on January 17, 2018, 10:05:53 AM
Overnight in the u19 WC
https://www.icc-cricket.com/video/596614 (https://www.icc-cricket.com/video/596614)

West indies junior team at it again

Disgraceful decision - ball was stationary.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on January 17, 2018, 10:09:33 AM
Been chatting about this on twitter, not sure if this happened but umpires should have asked captain if he wanted to uphold appeal. If he did then its a shambles!
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Neon Cricket on January 17, 2018, 10:11:58 AM
It's a joke isn't it, regardless of whether they appealed/didn't appeal I just don't see how allowing this sort of dismissal is good for the game - ICC/WI should be apologising in my opinion.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Buzz on January 17, 2018, 10:22:27 AM
How is that possible out? Ridiculous. What kind of a moron appeals in that situation.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: northernboy1987 on January 17, 2018, 10:24:58 AM
Absolute joke that. Should be ashamed of themselves.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on January 17, 2018, 10:31:08 AM
Wicket keeper seems to instigate it, umpires should have called a dead ball and moved on.

Especially given he was well in on 47 when they appealed which reeks of sour grapes.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: petehosk on January 17, 2018, 10:32:27 AM
That d1ckhead of a WI Captain said,"I asked the Question..." He should be ashamed!
I had a lot of respect for the SA Captain  he showed a lot of restraint giving his opinion! If I had of been chatting, I would have told him that it was insane to gove that out. Do these umpires have no brains!? Absolutely mental!
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: alexhilly1492 on January 17, 2018, 10:34:24 AM
How many times do we see this in club cricket where the batsman waits until a fielder says yeah youíre ok to pick the ball up, a little naive from the batsman but should never have appealed

Utter embarrassment of a cricket team second drama theyíve caused recently isnít it?
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Andythomo21 on January 17, 2018, 10:35:44 AM
That d1ckhead of a WI Captain said,"I asked the Question..." He should be ashamed!
I had a lot of respect for the SA Captain  he showed a lot of restraint giving his opinion! If I had of been chatting, I would have told him that it was insane to gove that out. Do these umpires have no brains!? Absolutely mental!

WI Captain basically said that in hindsight it wasnít in the spirit of cricket and he should of rescinded the appeal.  He didnít use those exact words, but the words he did use actually didnít make much sense!
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Andythomo21 on January 17, 2018, 10:38:48 AM
Agree itís a total farce and should never have been out but these guys are pros.  As mentioned above, in amateur cricket most guys would hold their glove up until a close in fielder or wicket keeper says ďcheers mateĒ so why do these guys think they dont have to?!
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Seniorplayer on January 17, 2018, 10:50:12 AM
Poor sportmanship Not good for the game  but the law states its out.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: LEACHY48 on January 17, 2018, 11:02:02 AM
Pretty disgusting if you ask me, you've got to be a bit of a tit to think that this is an acceptable way to get someone out - West indies keeper and captain clearly fall into this category
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: csnew on January 17, 2018, 11:10:28 AM
Are the laws of the game outdated? is it time to make clear cut and remove grey areas like this?

So if the ball is stationary you can't be given out handling it.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: cricketbadger on January 17, 2018, 11:31:31 AM
Got to ignore the laws with Incidents like this, common sense should take over. Obvious he was just being polite and passing the ball back, it had stopped and he wasn't gaining an advantage. Umpires shouldn't have even referred it, they could have squashed it before it lead to this
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: sfa82 on January 17, 2018, 12:02:32 PM
When I first saw this, i could not believe how that was given out. Let's hope the Windies captain has taken a lesson from this incident.

The South African coach was very composed in the post innings interview, and avoided making this into a big scandal. He must have been seething though.

Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: langer17 on January 17, 2018, 12:24:51 PM
How many times do we see this in club cricket where the batsman waits until a fielder says yeah youíre ok to pick the ball up, a little naive from the batsman but should never have appealed

Utter embarrassment of a cricket team second drama theyíve caused recently isnít it?

Never in all my 16 years of cricket. Unless they are swatting it away to stop it hitting the stumps, no issue at all.

West Indies u19's at it again after the whole mankad issue back in 2016
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: ManHOOS on January 17, 2018, 12:49:34 PM
Well most of the teams or i would say players dont care about sportsmanship, they casually throw towards keeper hitting batsman standing in between, in club cricket where there are no cameras foul players will do their stuff and get away with it, in club cricket i need to keep my eyes and mind wide open to avoid such foul plays, there are many others ways like coming in the way deliberatly, pushing etc  :(
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: adampai on January 17, 2018, 01:25:02 PM
Tbh the law is the law. Its harsh but as a pro he should really know better....
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: cricketbadger on January 17, 2018, 01:34:20 PM
Glad to see SA still got the win
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: sarg on January 17, 2018, 01:34:27 PM
Its just not cricket.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: LEACHY48 on January 17, 2018, 02:01:45 PM
Tbh the law is the law. Its harsh but as a pro he should really know better....

The law is irrelevant as the appeal should never ever even have been considered and the law is also up to the umpires discretion upon application. The west Indian blokes are obviously just cocks
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: brokenbat on January 17, 2018, 02:12:49 PM
why does the law even exist?

Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: liscon12 on January 17, 2018, 02:20:06 PM
why does the law even exist?
My thoughts exactly, what relevance does it have on the game?

I've seen many an older player in my club just pick up the ball and throw it back even without asking the fielding team, its called manners and being a gentleman. Fair to say like most sports the rules are there to be exploited at all cost now, the Spirit of Cricket is dead and anyone who thinks otherwise if kidding themselves.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: mo_town on January 17, 2018, 02:24:59 PM
People do pick up the ball and throw it to the fielder but not before politely inquiring with the fielding team with a raise of a hand. Thats how everyone does it as the ball is still deemed to be in play. What's to stop a batsman from feigning picking up the ball and then steal a single?
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Seniorplayer on January 17, 2018, 02:27:51 PM
Since  2017 The rule comes under obstructing the field you can only pick the ball up and not be out if one of the fielders requests you to do so  prior to you handling the ball  to avoid instances of fielders asking the batsman to return the ball and then appealing and the umpire giving the batsman out has had happened  previously.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: liscon12 on January 17, 2018, 03:29:57 PM
People do pick up the ball and throw it to the fielder but not before politely inquiring with the fielding team with a raise of a hand. Thats how everyone does it as the ball is still deemed to be in play. What's to stop a batsman from feigning picking up the ball and then steal a single?
Moment a batsman picks up a ball, it should be called dead ball and would prevent this from happening along with this silly rule.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: mo_town on January 17, 2018, 03:46:30 PM
Moment a batsman picks up a ball, it should be called dead ball and would prevent this from happening along with this silly rule.

I think the issue is that the ball is technically not dead when the batsman is picking it up. Either the batsman should wait for enough time and just ask the fielding side before picking up the ball if thats ok.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: cricketbadger on January 17, 2018, 03:57:08 PM
Is this rule the same as when a batsmen uses his bat to control the ball and roll towards a close fielder or wicketkeeper when it has been defended and landed close by to the batsmen. See this a lot when batsmen play spin and just dead bat the ball (soft hands into the ground) and knock it to a short leg fielder for example.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: northernboy1987 on January 17, 2018, 04:39:41 PM
My thoughts exactly, what relevance does it have on the game?

I've seen many an older player in my club just pick up the ball and throw it back even without asking the fielding team, its called manners and being a gentleman. Fair to say like most sports the rules are there to be exploited at all cost now, the Spirit of Cricket is dead and anyone who thinks otherwise if kidding themselves.

I'm appealing if you try it next season Liam.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Kez on January 17, 2018, 04:48:21 PM
My thoughts exactly, what relevance does it have on the game?

I've seen many an older player in my club just pick up the ball and throw it back even without asking the fielding team, its called manners and being a gentleman. Fair to say like most sports the rules are there to be exploited at all cost now, the Spirit of Cricket is dead and anyone who thinks otherwise if kidding themselves.

While this is a joke of a decision... don't pick the ball up!!
I hate batsman getting their sweaty mitts on the ball, then as a batter not a chance am I touching it. Some poor fielder has to come and pick it up.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: mdg20 on January 17, 2018, 05:50:13 PM
why does the law even exist?

Iíve been involved in a game where Iíve appealed for this and had it given out. The batsmen charged down the wicket played a defensive shot where he was 3 yards down the track the ball dropped in between him and short leg the batsmen then picked the ball up and threw it straight to the bowler just ahead of short leg grabbing it and flicking it to me stood up behind the stumps. He prevented us making attempt at running him out.

Thatís what the law is for, not nonsense like this.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: brokenbat on January 17, 2018, 06:42:44 PM
Iíve been involved in a game where Iíve appealed for this and had it given out. The batsmen charged down the wicket played a defensive shot where he was 3 yards down the track the ball dropped in between him and short leg the batsmen then picked the ball up and threw it straight to the bowler just ahead of short leg grabbing it and flicking it to me stood up behind the stumps. He prevented us making attempt at running him out.

Thatís what the law is for, not nonsense like this.

in that case, this is the umpire's fault. throwing the ball back to the bowler may, or may not, constitute obstruction of field. in your example it did, yesterday, it did not.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: shadowlight on January 17, 2018, 07:19:34 PM
I think it was mentioned (Cricinfo) that lots of players on WI team even thought it was dead ball/end of over with folks running on the field with drinks etc.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/22130479/on-reflection-withdraw-appeal-emmanuel-stewart (http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/22130479/on-reflection-withdraw-appeal-emmanuel-stewart)

"As there was a break in play, substitutes ran in with drinks under the assumption that the batsman had taken a break. Even West Indies' boundary riders seemed taken aback by the appeal initially."
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: edge on January 17, 2018, 08:00:56 PM
Best way to get rid of this rubbish would be to change the law so the batsman is out if he handles the ball in any way.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: ppccopener on January 17, 2018, 08:11:30 PM
Someone needs to have a word with the West Indies kids and tell them a whole lot of history and a legacy even of fantastic players , breathtaking matches and individual brilliance have gone before them that made the people  of the islands stand ten feet tall.

Complete nonsense.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Big Mac on January 17, 2018, 10:16:28 PM
Someone needs to have a word with the West Indies kids and tell them a whole lot of history and a legacy even of fantastic players , breathtaking matches and individual brilliance have gone before them that made the people  of the islands stand ten feet tall.

Complete nonsense.

Plenty of boring people tut-tutted when the great Windies teams were bouncing the crap out of everybody so this incident kinda upholds that legacy in its own way.

Don't pick up the ball unless you've looked at a fielder for approval first, this is basic stuff.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on January 17, 2018, 10:41:28 PM
Best way to get rid of this rubbish would be to change the law so the batsman is out if he handles the ball in any way.

This.. just donít touch it. Itís not a nice way but the law is the law and there is no spirit of Cricket now sadly
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: ppccopener on January 17, 2018, 11:15:38 PM
Windies captain on cricinfo now says he knows the letter of the law and should of withdrawn the appeal. That has to be right....same with the collingwood/side bottom run out with grant Elliott...wrong at the time and regretted after

And Big Mac I'm sure you know your cricket history, every team that has had intimidatory fast bowlers has used them. Australia in the 70's , windies in the 80's

The biggest 'culprit for bouncing the crap out of anyone' was

England. Body line.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: LateBloomer on January 17, 2018, 11:28:15 PM
Plenty of boring people tut-tutted when the great Windies teams were bouncing the crap out of everybody so this incident kinda upholds that legacy in its own way.

Don't pick up the ball unless you've looked at a fielder for approval first, this is basic stuff.

The Windies of the 80s only decided to get nasty after Thompson & Lillee bounced their tail in Australia in the late 70s

That is not the same as this incident which is a joke dismissal. Windies captain was wrong Yes but for me the match officials should have been stronger.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: mdg20 on January 18, 2018, 12:09:15 AM
in that case, this is the umpire's fault. throwing the ball back to the bowler may, or may not, constitute obstruction of field. in your example it did, yesterday, it did not.

I completely agree, umpires just had to say ball was stationary batsmen were not obstructing any close fielders no run was being taken therefore we considered the ball to be dead
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: sgcricket on January 18, 2018, 02:44:57 AM
When it went to the 3rd umpire, he had no choice but to give it out. That was the common sense irrespective of what people might say.

As for the incident, I am with Mitchell Johnson on this: Spirit of the game is in following the laws. This incident happening yesterday and the furore surrounding it will ensure it doesn't happen in future.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Kulli on January 18, 2018, 07:36:35 AM
When it went to the 3rd umpire, he had no choice but to give it out. That was the common sense irrespective of what people might say.

As for the incident, I am with Mitchell Johnson on this: Spirit of the game is in following the laws. This incident happening yesterday and the furore surrounding it will ensure it doesn't happen in future.
so your ok with doing anything that doesn't break a law in order to win the game?
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: sgcricket on January 18, 2018, 07:54:19 AM
so your ok with doing anything that doesn't break a law in order to win the game?
Can you elaborate with an example of what you mean by 'doing anything to win'? Spirit of the game is very arbitrary and subjective. Sledging is a perfect example. Someone might think funny banter is ok but others might perceive it as sledging or a means of upsetting someone's concentration and therefore not in the spirit of the game.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Kulli on January 18, 2018, 07:57:50 AM
Can you elaborate with an example of what you mean by 'doing anything to win'? Spirit of the game is very arbitrary and subjective. Sledging is a perfect example. Someone might think funny banter is ok but others might perceive it as sledging or a means of upsetting someone's concentration and therefore not in the spirit of the game.

You said 'Spirit of the game is in following the laws', do you mean that as long as you follow the law you mean that you're playing the game in the right spirit?
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on January 18, 2018, 08:15:28 AM
Can you elaborate with an example of what you mean by 'doing anything to win'? Spirit of the game is very arbitrary and subjective. Sledging is a perfect example. Someone might think funny banter is ok but others might perceive it as sledging or a means of upsetting someone's concentration and therefore not in the spirit of the game.

You could say law 42 stops sledging and that itís only because umpires donít enforce the law that sledging is able to happen. Meaning that just because an umpire doesnít prosecute the laws at all times doesnít mean players shouldnít play to the laws. Itís not that subjective really, the problem is umpires not enforcing the laws fully and so we now have a situation where the laws actually donít allow verbal distraction before or after a delivery but players believe sledging is allowed.

Just to use your example (although Iíll check law 42 with our resident geek later today)
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on January 18, 2018, 08:28:49 AM
Law 41

Time wasting

How many times do we now see batters not ready to receive the bowlers delivery? The above law states that under normal circumstances the striker must be ready when the bowler is.. and yet, how often do you see batters messing about and the bowler left standing there waiting etc ... again, is that batter wrong ?.  Heís been allowed to get away with it because no one has enforced the laws so he might believe that you wait for the batter  etc etc ..

A lot of the laws are there already tbh, itís just they are not being enforced by umpires at all levels properly or consistently and so ambiguity sinks in and then we get all mannor of interpretation.

Sledge vs no sledge
Wait for the batter to be ready or bowler ?
Time wasting
Over appealing
Etc etc
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: sgcricket on January 18, 2018, 11:59:13 AM
You said 'Spirit of the game is in following the laws', do you mean that as long as you follow the law you mean that you're playing the game in the right spirit?
The rules are there for a reason. And i play in the spirit of the game as well as follow the laws when i play. So to me, the grey area would be less if everyone followed the same rules. Leaves less room for interpretation. In no batsman ever picked up the ball, then this kind of situation will never occur.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Rob580 on January 18, 2018, 12:30:35 PM
This is all just an example of what you get when you try to help someone out.

The rule is wrong, yes, I think we can all agree on that. But what sort of a person appeals for that? There must have been some thought behind it, as you wouldn't appeal for it unless you knew that was a rule and had some degree of planning?

Someone within the West Indies set up must have read that rule and thought 'we're going to get someone like that' and then waited for it to happen.

Absolute shambles frankly, maybe if they concentrated on their cricket a bit more rather than this petty bullshit (remember the Mankad from the last U19's team?) the West Indies would be the superpower it once was
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: sgcricket on January 19, 2018, 02:42:35 AM
This is all just an example of what you get when you try to help someone out.

The rule is wrong, yes, I think we can all agree on that. But what sort of a person appeals for that? There must have been some thought behind it, as you wouldn't appeal for it unless you knew that was a rule and had some degree of planning?

Someone within the West Indies set up must have read that rule and thought 'we're going to get someone like that' and then waited for it to happen.

Absolute shambles frankly, maybe if they concentrated on their cricket a bit more rather than this petty bullshit (remember the Mankad from the last U19's team?) the West Indies would be the superpower it once was
The initial appeal happened in the heat of the moment perhaps but he had plenty of time to take it back and he chose not to. We can only speculate what was going through his mind. But ridiculous to think that they planned it. You cannot plan for a batsman to pick up the ball. Personally I have picked up the ball a couple of times to pass to a fielder but I signal before doing that.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: brokenbat on January 19, 2018, 05:38:12 AM
This is all just an example of what you get when you try to help someone out.

The rule is wrong, yes, I think we can all agree on that. But what sort of a person appeals for that? There must have been some thought behind it, as you wouldn't appeal for it unless you knew that was a rule and had some degree of planning?

Someone within the West Indies set up must have read that rule and thought 'we're going to get someone like that' and then waited for it to happen.

Absolute shambles frankly, maybe if they concentrated on their cricket a bit more rather than this petty bullshit (remember the Mankad from the last U19's team?) the West Indies would be the superpower it once was

No issues with mankad, since backing up early CAN unfairly help the batting team. But this was silly.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Kulli on February 10, 2018, 08:05:05 AM
http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=22377771 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=22377771)

More stinky bantz in the windies.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: csnew on February 10, 2018, 08:09:31 AM
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=22377771[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=22377771[/url])

More stinky bantz in the windies.


Whatís wrong with West Indian cricketers?? Itís from top to bottom.
Rob key suggested it was marlon Samuels at fault being captain. Wouldnít surprise you would it
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 10, 2018, 08:15:21 AM
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=22377771[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=22377771[/url])

More stinky bantz in the windies.


Spirit of Cricket is dead. Itís win at all costs now. This is also pro Cricket so theyíll do anything.. the only thing they had to play for was denying him a ton so they did.  Meh.. not cool but meh.

Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: JB on February 10, 2018, 08:19:36 AM
I canít understand what sense of achievement they get from doing this?
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Kulli on February 10, 2018, 08:41:51 AM
I canít understand what sense of achievement they get from doing this?

I donít get it at all, if anything iíd have been lobbing down a pie to let the bloke belt a four and get off to lick your wounds.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: six and out on February 10, 2018, 08:45:15 AM
Does anyone know who the fielder was?

I think looking at it the bowler wasn't to blame in this instance, it looked like he was trying to bowl wide Yorkers to Crawley and was just rubbish then bowling straighter at the stumps to the other batter.
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 10, 2018, 08:45:37 AM
I canít understand what sense of achievement they get from doing this?

Itís not achievement. Itís just not letting the oppo get another positive

Ps I donít think it was right btw.. but it is what it is now
Title: Re: Spirit of Cricket?
Post by: Kulli on February 10, 2018, 08:57:09 AM
Does anyone know who the fielder was?

I think looking at it the bowler wasn't to blame in this instance, it looked like he was trying to bowl wide Yorkers to Crawley and was just rubbish then bowling straighter at the stumps to the other batter.
He was trying to bowl leg side sides when the other bloke got on strike.