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General Cricket => Your Cricket => Topic started by: six and out on February 05, 2018, 08:09:37 AM

Title: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: six and out on February 05, 2018, 08:09:37 AM
Hampshire League in trouble...

Saw this link posted on FB by H4L.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/31/worlds-largest-cricket-league-threat-teams-quit-lengthy-matches/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/31/worlds-largest-cricket-league-threat-teams-quit-lengthy-matches/)

Does anyone here play in it because reading the article it just seems they have the seem problems as everyone else has.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: ppccopener on February 05, 2018, 08:40:31 AM
Interesting stuff @WalkingWicket37 is a Hampshire player he will know the affect of teams leaving

Our league is changing to 50 per cent limited overs games for 2018 this should shorten the game...not by much but like others on here I have been on the field at 8pm in the past
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on February 05, 2018, 08:44:24 AM
Radical headline

The proposals are only for the lower divisions, and to blame teas for the decline in players is Trump-esque

I think the leave AGM is either this week or next, so we'll find out what's happening soon
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Calzehbhoy on February 05, 2018, 08:54:44 AM
Unfortunately until the ECB realise that the exposure of the game is being killed by their deal with Sky numbers will continue to drop.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Manormanic on February 05, 2018, 09:00:46 AM
Its a combination of things though, isn't it?  T20 is not helping, because it is killing the appetite of younger players for the proper form of the league game.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Seniorplayer on February 05, 2018, 09:05:44 AM
 Told that Worcester Clubs are going down to 40 overs for div 6- 9 also dropping teas is always on the  agenda .
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: ppccopener on February 05, 2018, 09:13:06 AM
Sad day when teas are dumped !

Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Alvaro on February 05, 2018, 09:43:57 AM
How often do people actually get good teas?

Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: FattusCattus on February 05, 2018, 09:48:06 AM
I don't get it - surely just a simple tweaking of the rules would work? 

12.30 or 1pm start times.

20-30 mins for tea

limited overs at 40 - 45 overs a side, or declaration game with a make of 95 overs (limit of 50 overs for team batting first).

This is pretty much how we are set up in Surrey Champ and we very rarely have late finishes.

If I've got my maths right, go at 18 overs per hour -

Declaration - 1pm start, 50 overs, finish at approx. - 3.45pm.  25mins for tea, 4.10pm. 45 overs 2nd innings - 6.40pm finish.
Limited Overs: 1pm start - 3.30pm tea - 2nd inngs start - 4.00pm - 6.30pm finish.

I know lost balls, in juries and arguments can affect timings, but I'm sure these aren't far off.

I wonder if people have 2.00pm starts and 40 minutes for tea - that's going to add nearly 80 minutes to the game, so no wonder there's late finishes.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Manormanic on February 05, 2018, 09:52:05 AM
Over rates is the biggest single problem - you get teams that want to change the field or have a conflab after every single ball and thereby drag the whole process out for an absolute eternity.  In our league, the likes of Slough and Burnham can be relied upon to finish at least an hour after any other team would be off the park. 
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: mo_town on February 05, 2018, 10:24:59 AM
Hope this means that games start earlier; maybe 11am. Dont understand the logic behind starting a game at 1pm!
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Rob580 on February 05, 2018, 10:28:23 AM
Hope this means that games start earlier; maybe 11am. Dont understand the logic behind starting a game at 1pm!

Gives you time to get over your hangover and enough time to rush to the petrol station to get a sandwich and a lucozade, right?
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Andythomo21 on February 05, 2018, 10:39:10 AM
I must admit, we constantly have this debate within our league about cutting out late finishes.  The answer always seems to be reduce overs or 30 mins earlier start!

Why not just start at 11, 11.30, 12, 12.30??

A few lads may work Sat mornings, but if one of the main reasons cited for reduced numbers is the late finishes then you have to find the correct balance somewhere?
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on February 05, 2018, 10:42:03 AM
Hope this means that games start earlier; maybe 11am. Dont understand the logic behind starting a game at 1pm!

Our lads struggle to arrive for 1pm if the McDonald's drive-thru is busy...
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: edge on February 05, 2018, 10:48:22 AM
I'd be really interested to see what happened if a city league somewhere started up playing t20, start at 1pm finish around 4pm. Obvious issues with people not getting a game but have a sneaking suspicion it might be a massive success with the casual cricketers.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: ppccopener on February 05, 2018, 11:01:09 AM
Right then might as well start practising the reverse sweep and the ramp-looks easy on the telly

Itís T20 or nowt!
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Seniorplayer on February 05, 2018, 11:34:24 AM
Early start is always discussed what I don't get its agreed to for August  onwards but not agreed to from the start of the season
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Chalkie on February 05, 2018, 11:47:27 AM
I play IíAnson league which cuts across parts of Surrey, Sussex and Hants.

We play 45 overs each way for top 3 divs and 40 for bottom 3 divs, with a 1pm start and tea around 4. We also have a leg side wide rule so can end up with anywhere between 4-10 (yes 10!) extra overs each innings.

In the longer version if the game goes the full duration we may not finish till after 7. So although in most cases the drive for an away game is only 20-30 mins this still means that once you change and pack you arenít home till 8, which does cause Ďchallengesí if the wife has arranged for us to go out.

Have asked why we donít start earlier as would suit me and many others in my club, and got told itís because a lot of people work sat mornings. Hopefully playing 2s next season so shorter games, but does mean less overs per bowler :-(
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: joeljonno on February 05, 2018, 12:01:46 PM
It's not just Saturday workers who want to start late. I don't want a pre-lunchtime start.  1pm is more than early enough.  I would not get to see my kid at all on a Saturday if it was an 11am start.  Travel is regularly an hour, if not longer (I'm lucky to be based centrally), meaning to add a decent warm up in, you're looking at a 9am meet time most weeks, and 10am if playing at home.  45-50 overs, plus a tea break, is at least 6 hours, social time afterwards, travel back and it's already bed time for the bairn. At least with a 1 pm start, I get a few hours with the bairn in the morning.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on February 05, 2018, 12:26:14 PM
I'd be really interested to see what happened if a city league somewhere started up playing t20, start at 1pm finish around 4pm. Obvious issues with people not getting a game but have a sneaking suspicion it might be a massive success with the casual cricketers.

This could be the answer for many but I, along with many others, prefer going out for the whole day!  :)

We have a midweek league, 6.30pm starts and 16 overs a side (and these games sometimes finish in the dark...) 
You see a lot of old faces, who no longer give up their whole Saturday for cricket, turning out for a bit of hit and giggle!
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: play-yourself-in on February 05, 2018, 12:51:49 PM
Our Sunday team, admittedly it is only friendlies, is going 1.30pm start - 35 overs per side - quick cup of tea - straight back out - food and drinks after the game. We can only do this for our home games where we make the calls, but it is already getting more people interested in playing more this year.

Anything that gets more people willing to play, but still means everyone can have a full game is good. It is a tough thing to balance, but the leagues, and teams need to adapt. I guess soon that people will be getting their self driving cars to the games so they can eat their BP sandwich on the way!
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: spoonbed on February 05, 2018, 01:03:18 PM
I'd be really interested to see what happened if a city league somewhere started up playing t20, start at 1pm finish around 4pm. Obvious issues with people not getting a game but have a sneaking suspicion it might be a massive success with the casual cricketers.

Know a few lads who play in the 30ov league in the Bristol and District and love the format/early finishes.
Wouldn't be for me, but I've always thought that we should start at 12pm.Hate the waiting around on Saturday mornings, not having enough time to do stuff with the family.At least with an early start, at least I'd be back at a reasonable hour.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: bk on February 05, 2018, 01:19:39 PM
I think a full pyramid system fails the non-elite players. After 10 years watching and umpiring I keep seeing the following: -


Slow over rates in lower divisions
Tea Intervals almost always overrun
Large leagues with promotion and relegation lead to more travelling
No school cricket leads to too many kids wanting to play weekend club cricket. Creates transport and safeguarding issues
Too many juniors in senior sides means many seniors move clubs or stop playing
Too many teams running junior sections leads to availability issues/mismatches for junior matches and cancellations


I like the Jersey cricket model. Outside of top division it's basically 40 overs max, coloured kit, 1pm-6pm matches. They run 2 seasons a year with relegation and promotion and a T20 competition mid-season. Family/work friendly cricket leads to more players (junior and senior). People continuing to play when older, better social lives etc. I guess it's easier when you only have a few grounds and a limited geography but there are some lessons here.






Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: six and out on February 05, 2018, 01:41:51 PM
For the 1st time in it's history the FCCL is going to win/lose 40 over cricket this year - in a bid to keep more people interested etc....

However already the following has been done to reduce playing time -

You are allowed to arrange a 1hr earlier start time with the opposition (and umpires if applicable) - this would be 12.30pm
20 minutes for tea - that's Umpires/Fielding Team must be out on the field after 20 minutes
Over rates penalties have been brought in - teams must now bowl their overs in 2 hrs 30mins - penalty of 6 runs per over they are over the time..... so in theory the total time should be -

5hrs - overs both innings
20 mins - tea
10 mins - adhoc
5hrs 30mins - total

If you start at 1.30pm (normal start time) you should finish at 7pm latest.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 05, 2018, 05:31:36 PM
This forum and Ďweí (people from leagues and clubs) have this debate every year but the reality is no one thing will revive Cricket. For every player someone says will be attracted another will quit. The game needs to provide for all standards of players the ability to play all the formats as each format requires different skills. If you limit it to one format you essentially force those not willing or in possession of said skills into retirement or they never join/stay in the game.

Reducing then overs seems to be the go too solution but then that means less get a game and removes a lot of skills and tactics from the game. Go back to draw Cricket and itís regarded as boring and long. Either way you will lose players and potentially those who run teams and clubs.

Itís an impossible situation and we all will land on the side that our game naturally gravitates towards. For a truely balanced view you have to look at it from the view of a hitter, a plodder, the young, the old, the flight spinner, the dart spinner, the volunteers and then thing about all the skills that are involved in the different formats.

Very hard and no one will agree because whatever you do we will lose players so Iíd venture that across the board itís not a gain or loss as itíll balance out.. the danger is in losing the age range who currently or will become those who run clubs .. no club.. no game
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: edge on February 05, 2018, 05:55:55 PM
This forum and Ďweí (people from leagues and clubs) have this debate every year but the reality is no one thing will revive Cricket. For every player someone says will be attracted another will quit. The game needs to provide and standard of player the ability to play all the formats as each format requires different skills. If you limit it to one format you essentially force those not willing or in possession of said skills into retirement or they never join/stay in the game.

Reducing then overs seems to be the go too solution but then that means less get a game and removes a lot of skills and tactics from the game. Go back to draw Cricket and itís regarded as boring and long. Either way you will lose players and potentially those who run teams and clubs.

Itís an impossible situation and we all will land on the side that our game naturally gravitates towards. For a truely balanced view you have to look at it from the view of a hitter, a plodder, the young, the old, the flight spinner, the dart spinner, the volunteers and then thing about all the skills that are involved in the different formats.

Very hard and no one will agree because whatever you do we will lose players so Iíd venture that across the board itís not a gain or loss as itíll balance out.. the danger is in losing the age range who currently or will become those who run clubs .. no club.. no game
Think that's probably pretty fair, possibly we'll end up with bit of a divergence in formats to cater for different needs/tastes with some playing 45/50 some playing 20/30 overs. Be a complicated old business both making that happen and keeping everyone happy though! Shortening overs lower down the leagues seems a common thing (and a reasonably successful one by the sounds of it) but then you run into the problem of good players who want short games and the more village players who like a proper length game.

If I was in charge I'd consider suggesting all the Saturday league stuff as shorter overs and some kind of traditional longer overs or time games with a proper tea etc on Sundays, friendly or league depending on what clubs/players wanted. Try and cater for both tastes, don't know how popular that would prove though.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Northern monkey on February 05, 2018, 06:21:22 PM
Possibly two day cricket played over two Saturdays, my lad plays this in nz and rates it
He plays wepl over here, and hates the distance they have to travel/ late finishes/ , bit of a nightmare if they want to go out on the lash,,,or if they have to work weekend shifts etc
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: iand123 on February 05, 2018, 06:58:13 PM
Lower end of the Kent league (Kent regional feed league) has been 40 overs for a few years now. Donít believe that dropping teas has ever been mentioned
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: ppccopener on February 05, 2018, 07:51:35 PM
I suppose the question that has no answer( I can see anyway) is as the game moves to a shorter format because, let's face it, it's dying as an ameteur sport when the vast majority want it to expand, is how you develop players for a higher standard if everything moves to a 40 over or even 35 over a side league game.....

Personally I'm not against a shorter format if the majority, especially youngsters, prefer it, because the ameteur game desperately needs players.

I think I would sacrifice 10 or 15 overs a match if we could still have tea

I can't be the only one who has righted all the wrongs of the world over a decent cup of tetleys and a sandwich. And bread and jam sometimes

Lovely.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 05, 2018, 10:22:54 PM
I suppose the question that has no answer( I can see anyway) is as the game moves to a shorter format because, let's face it, it's dying as an ameteur sport when the vast majority want it to expand, is how you develop players for a higher standard if everything moves to a 40 over or even 35 over a side league game.....

Personally I'm not against a shorter format if the majority, especially youngsters, prefer it, because the ameteur game desperately needs players.

I think I would sacrifice 10 or 15 overs a match if we could still have tea

I can't be the only one who has righted all the wrongs of the world over a decent cup of tetleys and a sandwich. And bread and jam sometimes

Lovely.

Itís defo a hard question to answer and I donít think anyone is even close to it. Shorter games donít tend to lend themselves to older players and those are the people who run clubs. If they arenít interested in the formats they wonít run clubs. Youth doesnít run clubs (generally.. im sure the odd one does)..

Itís an unanswerable question. I think the glos leagues would lose a fair few teams if it drops below 40 overs purely because any less isnít much of a game and a lot of players simply canít or donít want to slog.

I know our club of three sat teams and until last year could put out two Sunday teams would literally only have 12-15 players who would stay in the game for anything less than 40overs. I donít think shortening it would attract anyone we have either sadly.

Iím sure other clubs are different and some the same.for every youth you get, youíll lose someone else and you always have to think who runs clubs, who does the ground.. usually not the <20 yr olds

Defo a hard question as whatever format you choose the game will lose and gain players
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 05, 2018, 10:29:02 PM
How about...

 10 team leagues
No teas

18 games a season
6 draw (50overs a side unless first innings declares /bowled out)
6 ODI games
6 2020

Something for everyone

👍🙈🏏🎣😢🍻
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Kez on February 05, 2018, 10:31:27 PM
Possibly two day cricket played over two Saturdays, my lad plays this in nz and rates it
He plays wepl over here, and hates the distance they have to travel/ late finishes/ , bit of a nightmare if they want to go out on the lash,,,or if they have to work weekend shifts etc

I like the idea of two day cricket but imagine the British weather playing havoc with it. Also the prospect of not batting for a month at a time if tosses/ weather conspire against you doesnít fill me with joy.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 05, 2018, 10:34:42 PM
I like the idea of two day cricket but imagine the British weather playing havoc with it. Also the prospect of not batting for a month at a time if tosses/ weather conspire against you doesnít fill me with joy.

Imagine paying say £5 to turn up, field for 20overs and get slogged about.. wander in and get out having faced 5 balls as you Ďhad to get on with ití.. basically the same tbf
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Kez on February 05, 2018, 10:39:26 PM
Agreed, even as a more aggressive player I donít want to just being playing T20. Quite happy to play the odd game but much prefer wasting a Saturday afternoon chasing leather around a meadow for 45 overs.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 05, 2018, 10:43:13 PM
Agreed, even as a more aggressive player I donít want to just being playing T20. Quite happy to play the odd game but much prefer wasting a Saturday afternoon chasing leather around a meadow for 45 overs.

I do think teas should go though, 30-45mins wasted. Just come off, 10mins .. back out ... might only shave off 35mins but add that to enforced over rates and youíll shave off 45-50 mins off most games..

Plenty of things you can do before reducing overs .. like enforcing batters to be ready for the bowler not waiting for a batter to fiddle, chat, punch gloves or put gloves back on etc. Keep your kit on and get on with it 👍
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Kez on February 05, 2018, 11:01:49 PM
Enforced over rates is key! 2hrs 56 to bowl your 45, job done! Get the spinners on and aim for 17/18 overs an hour easy. More time to beer before the lady wonders where to are!
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 05, 2018, 11:06:50 PM
Enforced over rates is key! 2hrs 56 to bowl your 45, job done! Get the spinners on and aim for 17/18 overs an hour easy. More time to beer before the lady wonders where to are!

Devils advocate... who is going to enforce said laws when there arenít neutral umpires ? (Club umpires are generally cheats so discount them)
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Kez on February 05, 2018, 11:22:04 PM
Devils advocate... who is going to enforce said laws when there arenít neutral umpires ? (Club umpires are generally cheats so discount them)

Find umpires  ;)

Not something I have to worry about on a Saturday fortunately, neutral umpires and non playing scorers! two of the best parts of the league rules!
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 06, 2018, 07:42:01 AM
Find umpires  ;)

Not something I have to worry about on a Saturday fortunately, neutral umpires and non playing scorers! two of the best parts of the league rules!

Same..

But..

Thatís why itís hard, because it has to be able to fit all game types, with and without umpires etc.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: JK Lewis on February 06, 2018, 08:50:28 AM
Over here in Suffolk we play 40 overs each side in the Hunts County Sunday league. We start at 1.30, there are some late finishes, usually due to slow over rates. Format of the day is all very traditional, including 30 mins (ish) for teas. We have kicked around the idea of reducing overs to attract/keep players, but one of the problems then is how to introduce the youngsters to Senior cricket. In the 2s, we often have 3 or 4 young lads, maybe 13-16 years old. If they came into T/20 they might hardly bat, and their bowling would get hammered to all parts.

For us, I think the weekend needs to stay pretty much as is. Some days run long, but this is as much to do with having to drive fair distances - Suffolk is a big county! But half the games are at home, so it works both ways. For the hit-and-giggle guys, we have set up a small T/20 league on Weds evenings, playing against other very local villages (3-4 miles). This runs through June and July to get the light, and works very well.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Seniorplayer on February 06, 2018, 09:34:22 AM
Imagine paying say £5 to turn up, field for 20overs and get slogged about.. wander in and get out having faced 5 balls as you Ďhad to get on with ití.. basically the same tbf

Or imagine rushing from work driving  20 miles through traffic   paying £ 5.00 to turn up field  for 20 overs  don't  get a bat or a bowl  been there.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on February 06, 2018, 09:37:51 AM
Or imagine paying £ 5.00 to turn up fied for 20 overs  don't  get a bat or a bowl seen it been there.

I did this for virtually a whole season of midweek games a few years back.
The captain just wouldn't give me a game. I would moan but the captain was me... :-[
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: FattusCattus on February 06, 2018, 09:39:30 AM
The style and duration of cricket we play isn't broken, so doesn't need fixing. It just needs a common-sense approach to start times and tea durations.

I like 40-50 over cricket, I don't want to play T20 or 30 overs slaps on a Saturday. I would like to play what I call 'proper cricket'

The best thing that ever happened in our league is the change to a mix of declaration cricket and limited overs cricket. Our youngsters now really get to see all facets of the game within one season.

Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: mo_town on February 06, 2018, 10:29:16 AM
The style and duration of cricket we play isn't broken, so doesn't need fixing. It just needs a common-sense approach to start times and tea durations.

I like 40-50 over cricket, I don't want to play T20 or 30 overs slaps on a Saturday. I would like to play what I call 'proper cricket'

The best thing that ever happened in our league is the change to a mix of declaration cricket and limited overs cricket. Our youngsters now really get to see all facets of the game within one season.

Agreed regarding 20 over and 30 over cricket...I feel that declaration cricket is what is driving youngsters away from the game; especially when they play games where the opposition just block out everything for a draw. I have seen a few games in lower divisions where a couple of old timers walk out and play a blockathon boring everyone to death. This doesnt do any good to the game. In my opinion, all games especially at lower divisions should be limited overs games where both team play to win.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: play-yourself-in on February 06, 2018, 02:11:21 PM
Totally agree, played in too many games where the "blockers' come in.  One i remember was an 8pm finish where they didn't even try from ball one. One of the openers carried his bat for about 20, he batted the whole 45 overs!

PS - I'm just jealous i can't bat that long :)
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 06, 2018, 09:50:39 PM
Agreed regarding 20 over and 30 over cricket...I feel that declaration cricket is what is driving youngsters away from the game; especially when they play games where the opposition just block out everything for a draw. I have seen a few games in lower divisions where a couple of old timers walk out and play a blockathon boring everyone to death. This doesnt do any good to the game. In my opinion, all games especially at lower divisions should be limited overs games where both team play to win.


So team a slaps 300, team b loses 5 quick wickets and knows it doesnít have much batting left ... draw fives u Yeah something to play for but win lose gives you nothing. Yet, why would you give it away given youíve given your time, money and energy and want to play the game you love..

Draw Cricket gets a bad rep about being boring but there are equally Boring win lose games but people seem to forget them
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: LateBloomer on February 07, 2018, 02:42:44 AM
Agreed regarding 20 over and 30 over cricket...I feel that declaration cricket is what is driving youngsters away from the game; especially when they play games where the opposition just block out everything for a draw. I have seen a few games in lower divisions where a couple of old timers walk out and play a blockathon boring everyone to death. This doesnt do any good to the game. In my opinion, all games especially at lower divisions should be limited overs games where both team play to win.

I agree, result cricket is everything for me. We play 50 over win/ lose and were on the recieving end of two 300+ chases last season. Did I mind losing? Not really, both were brilliant games to play in that went close to the wire. Every run was crucial. Would the opposition have tried to chase the total if batting for a draw was an option? Probably not. They would have blocked and played low risk cricket happy to get their 5 bonus points for 200. There would have been sledging about wasting time, play a shot etc both teams would have gone home slightly bitter

As it was we congratulated the opposition over a few beers - after being pretty severe with ourselves in the dressing room of course

You could make a case for ECB Prems to play some draw/timed cricket where the majority of minor counties players come from but below that no way. You win or you lose, take it on the chin
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: mdg20 on February 07, 2018, 09:24:39 PM
In a tight league, its also just as important not letting the opposition win. About 10 years ago we played a game early on in the season were getting battered but held out for a draw. The oppo moaned like hell but it was their fault for not getting our tail out. Fast forward to end of season, last game. Three teams in with chance of promotion including us and the team we drew against earlier. If we had rolled over in the earlier game we'd have not been in with a shout of going up.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 07, 2018, 10:02:43 PM
In a tight league, its also just as important not letting the opposition win. About 10 years ago we played a game early on in the season were getting battered but held out for a draw. The oppo moaned like hell but it was their fault for not getting our tail out. Fast forward to end of season, last game. Three teams in with chance of promotion including us and the team we drew against earlier. If we had rolled over in the earlier game we'd have not been in with a shout of going up.

Exactly.. if you canít bowl a team out without them slogging then you donít deserve to win. Draw is way more tactical and so actually more interesting. However, itís got a bad rep even though win lose produces just as many boring games.

Either way, it is what it is so we either play the formats or walk away.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Calzehbhoy on February 07, 2018, 10:37:36 PM
Problem with draw Cricket is when a side make no attempt at going for a total, itís a lot easier to just deadbat everything that is bowled and show absolutely 0 intent than it is to have to try and score runs.

I team shouldnít be rewarded with a Ďdrawí when theyíve made no attempt at even winning the game. If you arenít trying to win, especially as draw Cricket is usually the higher level, what is the point in playing?
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on February 07, 2018, 10:47:58 PM
How often do people actually get good teas?

Not very often. They are usually appalling and I'm amazed I've never had any kind of food poisoning as a result.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on February 07, 2018, 11:05:03 PM
I also find the point about 'too many youngsters' interesting. While I'm all in favour of getting young people into playing cricket (especially as I largely missed out on this myself), a day in the company of a load of spotty teenagers can be extremely tiresome for a middle-aged man.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on February 07, 2018, 11:10:54 PM
I also find the point about 'too many youngsters' interesting. While I'm all in favour of getting young people into playing cricket (especially as I largely missed out on this myself), a day in the company of a load of spotty teenagers can be extremely tiresome for a middle-aged man.

Does 23 count as middle-aged?

I was perplexed in a game last season where the youfff were discussing chat snaps and instant gram filters. I wasn't sure half of what they said was even English...

To top it off I was asked by one who I gave a lift to "can you put your foot down on the way home, love island starts in 15 minutes"
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on February 07, 2018, 11:22:09 PM
I had an experience last season where I realised that my team 'mates' were actually not speaking English (the only language I am able to communicate in). I mentioned it to the captain, and it was inferred that I was being racist. I totally was not.

I thought everyone who used Hunts County gear was middle-aged, Cam?  ;)
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 08, 2018, 06:07:13 AM
Problem with draw Cricket is when a side make no attempt at going for a total, itís a lot easier to just deadbat everything that is bowled and show absolutely 0 intent than it is to have to try and score runs.

I team shouldnít be rewarded with a Ďdrawí when theyíve made no attempt at even winning the game. If you arenít trying to win, especially as draw Cricket is usually the higher level, what is the point in playing?

How is this different in win lose Cricket ? If team a scores 270and team b loses say 4wixkets quickly (good bowling, bad batting whatever reason you want), if they are weak and know they canít possibly chase the total then the game is over with nothing to play for .. how is that any better or different .. Unless you simply want said team to slog out to Ďhit out or get outí so to speak.

This is why whatever format is chosen for every player you think itíll keep, itíll put off another. Rock and a hard place really
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Seniorplayer on February 08, 2018, 09:10:30 AM
Having Captained in draw cricket  you have to be more tacticlly aware.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Calzehbhoy on February 08, 2018, 09:15:15 AM
How is this different in win lose Cricket ? If team a scores 270and team b loses say 4wixkets quickly (good bowling, bad batting whatever reason you want), if they are weak and know they canít possibly chase the total then the game is over with nothing to play for .. how is that any better or different .. Unless you simply want said team to slog out to Ďhit out or get outí so to speak.

This is why whatever format is chosen for every player you think itíll keep, itíll put off another. Rock and a hard place really

Because you are not all stood in a field for no reason at 8pm just waiting for the last few overs to finish. There is nothing worse than playing draw cricket and a side just pulls the shutters down no attempt to win, every single person bored out of their mind waiting for the 40-50 overs to be finished so we can all go home.

If you lose 4 quick wickets still go for the total, if you are all out for 90 so be it. Team A deserve to win, it is a one day game after all.

Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Seniorplayer on February 08, 2018, 09:35:44 AM
Draw cricket   gives weaker teams  in our div an opportunity to get something from the game as the div  is a mismatched.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: JK Lewis on February 08, 2018, 09:36:33 AM
I also find the point about 'too many youngsters' interesting. While I'm all in favour of getting young people into playing cricket (especially as I largely missed out on this myself), a day in the company of a load of spotty teenagers can be extremely tiresome for a middle-aged man.

Yeah, it can be, which is part of the reason I have handed over the captaincy this season. But, we set our Sunday 2s up in part as a vehicle for bringing the kids through, so I guess you should be careful what you wish for! I had hoped to include 2 or possibly 3 kids in my sides last year, but a shortage of seniors (various reasons) pushed the youth quota up to 4, and even 5 on a couple of occasions. This is tough to manage, especially as everybody wants to get a decent game for their £10, and also because the kids can't umpire, or score, or make teas, or drive or even do much to set up the ground when we're at home.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Kulli on February 08, 2018, 09:41:00 AM
Yeah, it can be, which is part of the reason I have handed over the captaincy this season. But, we set our Sunday 2s up in part as a vehicle for bringing the kids through, so I guess you should be careful what you wish for! I had hoped to include 2 or possibly 3 kids in my sides last year, but a shortage of seniors (various reasons) pushed the youth quota up to 4, and even 5 on a couple of occasions. This is tough to manage, especially as everybody wants to get a decent game for their £10, and also because the kids can't umpire, or score, or make teas, or drive or even do much to set up the ground when we're at home.

Umpiring I get, but surely someone can teach them to score! Can even download an app to do it in if they like. making tea's and setting up I'm sure they could also manage some part of. I certainly never escaped sightscreen, covers, boundary rope or pavilion shutters duty when I was a kid.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: mo_town on February 08, 2018, 10:20:49 AM
Exactly.. if you canít bowl a team out without them slogging then you donít deserve to win. Draw is way more tactical and so actually more interesting. However, itís got a bad rep even though win lose produces just as many boring games.

Either way, it is what it is so we either play the formats or walk away.

I think you are missing the point here...I was referring to lower divisions where most youngsters/teens play. These games do not have a neutral umpire. Players from the batting team umpire which virtually takes the LBW option out. Without the fear of LBW, batsmen just cover the stumps and block things out. Why would a young kid enjoy playing such a game? Agreed that in win/lose games you will have times when the opposition put on 300+ and you dont stand a chance but those occasions are rare, maybe a game or two in the entire season. If that happens regularly then clearly the team isnt capable of playing at that level.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: six and out on February 08, 2018, 12:44:59 PM
interesting debate regards win/lose and draw cricket - especially as our league are moving to win/lose cricket (40 overs) from draw (44 overs) this season.

i personally think there is a place for both types of cricket but that draw cricket can easily be fixed/made a lot better by changing the points system in the league, which i feel not that many leagues actually consider.

If you simply don't reward the losing draw at all (but still have it as an option) then teams are forced to go for it. Also i have often seen some ridiculous scores batting 1st when the team then said 'oh they just didn't go for it' - well declare then..... back your bowlers, give yourself more overs, give the team a target to get.

I do agree that youngsters get frustrated with long days etc..... but i have never seen a youngster come off the field at 7.30/8pm saying they have had a bad day if they win it in the last over of a draw game.

Win/Lose or draw cricket in my opinion is simply not the problem - stuff like ridiculously bad over rates, stupid points systems, general league set ups eg. to many teams in each div, no school cricket, the lack of/dying out of Sunday cricket - these are far bigger issues
 
 
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: JK Lewis on February 08, 2018, 01:59:04 PM
Umpiring I get, but surely someone can teach them to score! Can even download an app to do it in if they like. making tea's and setting up I'm sure they could also manage some part of. I certainly never escaped sightscreen, covers, boundary rope or pavilion shutters duty when I was a kid.

Ha ha ha bloody snowflakes my lot! We have started to teach them scoring, but when the side is short it is actually quite an effort during the game. 2 umps, 2 batters everyone else with pads on, not much time to explain how to mark a wide or whatever, and keep the book accurate. Got into a bit of a ruck after a game we won by 1 run, but they counted up and their book had our score 9 runs lower than ours!
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Kulli on February 08, 2018, 02:14:11 PM
Ha ha ha bloody snowflakes my lot! We have started to teach them scoring, but when the side is short it is actually quite an effort during the game. 2 umps, 2 batters everyone else with pads on, not much time to explain how to mark a wide or whatever, and keep the book accurate. Got into a bit of a ruck after a game we won by 1 run, but they counted up and their book had our score 9 runs lower than ours!

Not sure sitting getting pad rash disqualifies you from showing someone how to score ;)
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on February 08, 2018, 02:45:59 PM
Ha ha ha bloody snowflakes my lot! We have started to teach them scoring, but when the side is short it is actually quite an effort during the game. 2 umps, 2 batters everyone else with pads on, not much time to explain how to mark a wide or whatever, and keep the book accurate. Got into a bit of a ruck after a game we won by 1 run, but they counted up and their book had our score 9 runs lower than ours!

Why have you got 7 people padded up in the hutch? ???
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on February 08, 2018, 02:57:37 PM
Oh, yes, the scorebook!  You lot are certainly doing your best to remind me why I have little enthusiasm for playing this year.

I never thought retirement would be like this. I imagined going out like Chris Read.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 08, 2018, 05:59:40 PM
I think you are missing the point here...I was referring to lower divisions where most youngsters/teens play. These games do not have a neutral umpire. Players from the batting team umpire which virtually takes the LBW option out. Without the fear of LBW, batsmen just cover the stumps and block things out. Why would a young kid enjoy playing such a game? Agreed that in win/lose games you will have times when the opposition put on 300+ and you dont stand a chance but those occasions are rare, maybe a game or two in the entire season. If that happens regularly then clearly the team isnt capable of playing at that level.

I think youíre missing the point too. This is amateur Cricket where while winning is what All 22 players should be going for, the win, itís about participation and enjoyment equally.the game has the ability to play a format which caters for more skill sets, more tactical know how and allows more drama to unfold,as well as a format for the more aggressive players. So play 18ganes a year, half for the hitters, half for the others.. that way all tastes and styles are catered for.

Itís not all about the young kid either, young kids donít run teams generally or fetch and carry etc. Itís not all about what young kids want. Itís about what is best for all styles of player so you attract and keep ALL styles of players. If you only play shorter and shorter formats in win lose you merely keep cutting the audience youíre appealing to.

As stated, for every Ďyoung kidí you attract (who generally will be aggressive hitter) youíll lose a young kid who canít or doesnít want to do that. Then you have the adults who age who canít score at said rates either and donít enjoy said formats.. so you lose another potentially

One format isnít the answer. Leagues need to play half and half to cater for all styles and tastes but also to ensure the best all round teams win leagues.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on February 08, 2018, 06:20:50 PM
People have became more selfish, generally? Co-operation and the collective good less valued?

Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 08, 2018, 06:40:05 PM
People have became more selfish, generally? Co-operation and the collective good less valued?

Society is generally more selfish and more aggressive to each other. Thatís not limited to Just Cricket.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on February 08, 2018, 06:45:44 PM
Society is generally more selfish and more aggressive to each other. Thatís not limited to Just Cricket.

Yes, that was my point. We have become a nation of shower avoiders.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 08, 2018, 06:59:48 PM
Yes, that was my point. We have become a nation of shower avoiders.

Well I have no idea how many used to shower back in the day.. I suspect a similar amount didnít
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on February 08, 2018, 07:11:09 PM
Well I have no idea how many used to shower back in the day.. I suspect a similar amount didnít

No, shower avoiders were definitely the minority; whereas they are now the majority.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: Manormanic on February 08, 2018, 07:12:38 PM
People have became more selfish, generally? Co-operation and the collective good less valued?

I certainly remember when I was a youngster, there were three older guys (well, guys who had hit 30.  Youngsters, I'd now call em) who batted six, seven and nine and rarely bowled so that the younger lads could have a proper go and learn the game.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on February 08, 2018, 07:14:42 PM
I certainly remember when I was a youngster, there were three older guys (well, guys who had hit 30.  Youngsters, I'd now call em) who batted six, seven and nine and rarely bowled so that the younger lads could have a proper go and learn the game.

However, you look back at scorecards and it shows a lot of teams had a hierarchy who always batted and bowled and a few lads made up the numbers (young fielders) and it was accepted as Ďthe wayí.

Again, I donít know enough about the good old days but I suspect they were t a sperfect either.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: LateBloomer on February 09, 2018, 01:00:26 PM
I certainly remember when I was a youngster, there were three older guys (well, guys who had hit 30.  Youngsters, I'd now call em) who batted six, seven and nine and rarely bowled so that the younger lads could have a proper go and learn the game.

I was lucky enough to enjoy a similar set up in my first few years in mens cricket. We had a couple of bowlers who were 30 plus who always umpired first stint. By the time that ended at least one of the top 3 would be out to take over unpiring with a youth player going out to stand at square leg and count to 6.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: LateBloomer on February 09, 2018, 01:06:03 PM
I think youíre missing the point too. This is amateur Cricket where while winning is what All 22 players should be going for, the win, itís about participation and enjoyment equally.the game has the ability to play a format which caters for more skill sets, more tactical know how and allows more drama to unfold,as well as a format for the more aggressive players. So play 18ganes a year, half for the hitters, half for the others.. that way all tastes and styles are catered for.



Whilst this half and half theory might sound fair, and I wouldn't be totally against it personally, I suspect that if the cricket playing public were asked which format they preferred to play the vast majority would choose win/lose. Certainly wouldn't be 50/50.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on February 09, 2018, 01:43:05 PM
Whilst this half and half theory might sound fair, and I wouldn't be totally against it personally, I suspect that if the cricket playing public were asked which format they preferred to play the vast majority would choose win/lose. Certainly wouldn't be 50/50.

Our 1st XI had a season (yes, just one) in the top division where they had to play timed games, and they all hated them! "The day is too long and it's a bit boring" was the general consensus
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: mo_town on February 09, 2018, 03:16:35 PM
I think youíre missing the point too. This is amateur Cricket where while winning is what All 22 players should be going for, the win, itís about participation and enjoyment equally.the game has the ability to play a format which caters for more skill sets, more tactical know how and allows more drama to unfold,as well as a format for the more aggressive players. So play 18ganes a year, half for the hitters, half for the others.. that way all tastes and styles are catered for.

Itís not all about the young kid either, young kids donít run teams generally or fetch and carry etc. Itís not all about what young kids want. Itís about what is best for all styles of player so you attract and keep ALL styles of players. If you only play shorter and shorter formats in win lose you merely keep cutting the audience youíre appealing to.

As stated, for every Ďyoung kidí you attract (who generally will be aggressive hitter) youíll lose a young kid who canít or doesnít want to do that. Then you have the adults who age who canít score at said rates either and donít enjoy said formats.. so you lose another potentially

One format isnít the answer. Leagues need to play half and half to cater for all styles and tastes but also to ensure the best all round teams win leagues.

Based on my experience, the only people I have seen appreciate and enjoy timed cricket are the 40+ players as it is similar to the way they have played cricket all their life...they do not like to be bothered about run rates etc. I agree that it isnt just about the youngsters, but for the greater good, the game has to evolve at the lower levels too. We continue with these archaic methods and then wonder why young players are falling out of love with cricket.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: six and out on February 09, 2018, 04:17:15 PM
Based on my experience, the only people I have seen appreciate and enjoy timed cricket are the 40+ players as it is similar to the way they have played cricket all their life...they do not like to be bothered about run rates etc. I agree that it isnt just about the youngsters, but for the greater good, the game has to evolve at the lower levels too. We continue with these archaic methods and then wonder why young players are falling out of love with cricket.

You say that..... and i do agree to a certain degree....... but you can't loose sight of is that if anyone wants to get anywhere in cricket, they have to learn how to play timed cricket.

As you get older and if you want the standard to get better the games get longer..... that is a fact of cricket.

You can say all you like about 20/20 and 30/40 over cricket but no kid has ever gone straight from there to playing for England or even County cricket.... you play long format timed games 1st to see if you can cut it.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: ppccopener on February 09, 2018, 06:27:39 PM
The leagues are changing formats, some quicker than others it seems. In Middlesex we move to half 45 over games win or lose for the first time (in Middlesex championship) , the remaining games you can have a draw(100 overs)

It's a challenge for older players myself included to adapt when the cricket we were shown to play at a young age was defending your wicket(time cricket)

In fact in my team most of the younger guys look to hit the ball like they see on the TV, and defence is nowhere to be seen

As I am learning from them they come to me for defensive advice which suits me fine. It's up to me to slight change and adapt to a shorter game.

The question of how you develop a young bowler or batsman as the games get shorter has no answer I can see. As you move up in standard the bowlers get better, there simply cannot be hit for runs all the time.

So.....there is a balance to be had, no one facing decent bowlers in Div 1 where I play will survive and do well without a defence.

I think myself games will get shorter, maybe down to 35 overs a side in a couple of years.

The ECB have to do something as younger guys flood away from cricket, if this is the answer so be it.

No one wants the game to die, and in the event doing something is better than nothing, this is it and we are going to need to get used to it.

Our club started a 20/20 league in 2017 with 6 other club after work midweek and it was very popular.This at the same time Sunday cricket we could barely get a team out. We have 4 league 11's, no one wanted to play Sunday's.

Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: edge on February 09, 2018, 07:32:55 PM
I've never played time cricket in a league situation, only the odd game back at school, so forgive me if I'm being daft - is it really that different batting in a 45/50 over win/lose(/tie!) game to batting in a 100 overs draw game? Obviously in limited overs games you don't get the situation of batting out for a draw (although I've seen people do it anyway enough times!) but other than that I don't quite see how things can be all that different unless the default approach is really conservative when batting. Plus, don't forget a win/lose league with a good bonus points system rewards careful batting even if you're chasing an impossible target - my personal highest score came when I arrived at the crease at 70ish/4 chasing 350+ and lost the only other remaining decent batsman shortly after leaving us about 80/5. Was still very satisfying personally and important for the team to make sure we got over 200.

What's a good score batting first in a time league, assuming decent pitches/standard etc? How common is declaring rather than being bowled out, and when do you declare? Most of the time in 45 over leagues I've played in I'd say you're aiming to get 200 as a minimum, 230+ and you're starting to feel confident on most grounds - are time leagues much different from that? Do you often end up with one team batting for substantially more than half of the game?
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: six and out on February 09, 2018, 08:13:16 PM
I've never played time cricket in a league situation, only the odd game back at school, so forgive me if I'm being daft - is it really that different batting in a 45/50 over win/lose(/tie!) game to batting in a 100 overs draw game? Obviously in limited overs games you don't get the situation of batting out for a draw (although I've seen people do it anyway enough times!) but other than that I don't quite see how things can be all that different unless the default approach is really conservative when batting. Plus, don't forget a win/lose league with a good bonus points system rewards careful batting even if you're chasing an impossible target - my personal highest score came when I arrived at the crease at 70ish/4 chasing 350+ and lost the only other remaining decent batsman shortly after leaving us about 80/5. Was still very satisfying personally and important for the team to make sure we got over 200.

What's a good score batting first in a time league, assuming decent pitches/standard etc? How common is declaring rather than being bowled out, and when do you declare? Most of the time in 45 over leagues I've played in I'd say you're aiming to get 200 as a minimum, 230+ and you're starting to feel confident on most grounds - are time leagues much different from that? Do you often end up with one team batting for substantially more than half of the game?

I am not sure what everyone is describing as what type of game.... as i always have known a Timed game to be something like playing 20 overs from 6pm as i grew up playing on a Sunday.

Then the other 2 types are Limited Overs straight Win or Lose and Win/Lose/Draw Cricket in specific overs which can range massively depending on league and standard. E.g.. 44 overs in the FCCL last season and 120 overs in the HCPL.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: ppccopener on February 09, 2018, 08:15:31 PM
There's definitely a difference for us newbies moving towards limited over games. Various different leagues would have bonus Points for a draw in some form or other and/or accumulated batting or bowling points.

Now you may still have bonus points in 45 over a side game, I'm not actually sure right now the points other than its 10 for a win, nothing for a loss.

Originally when I started league cricket the difference between a draw in a game you scored 175(max points, and got he oppo 9 down(max bowling) and then points for a draw....was not that great if you see what I mean. A win was 30, and you could get 18 (I think) for a good performance in a draw.

You could actually win he league not winning any games in theory but accumulating max points every game, and others lost all the time.

If you wanted to win regularly you needed to bowl the opposition out.

In a close league as I played in last year, the teams above you it was important not to lose, and deny them 10 points....
So if they got 300 and we couldn't get them, we played for a draw, and tried to Stop them getting 10 pts.

Now you could say that's negative cricket....personally I would not say that but others may view it that way.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: edge on February 09, 2018, 08:16:39 PM
I am not sure what everyone is describing as what type of game.... as i always have known a Timed game to be something like playing 20 overs from 6pm as i grew up playing on a Sunday.

Then the other 2 types are Limited Overs straight Win or Lose and Win/Lose/Draw Cricket in specific overs which can range massively depending on league and standard. E.g.. 44 overs in the FCCL last season and 120 overs in the HCPL.
Fair point, what I've previously played was the 20 overs after x time affair, not the w/l/d in x overs for both innings type that seems to be common on here. Interested in whatever's common!
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: edge on February 09, 2018, 08:20:26 PM
@ppccopener I'd be right on to the league if there's no bonus points, that wouldn't be great in win/lose cricket. Otherwise conceding 300/0 and getting skittled for 50 is worth the same as scoring 250 and losing to 251/9, obviously ridiculous.

No system is perfect, but best I've played (IMO) is 15 points for a win, plus 10 batting and 10 bowling points available. Means there's always something to play for.
Title: Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
Post by: six and out on February 09, 2018, 08:22:19 PM
Fair point, what I've previously played was the 20 overs after x time affair, not the w/l/d in x overs for both innings type that seems to be common on here. Interested in whatever's common!

I think the most common was the w/l/d in x number of overs in league cricket. However I think that it's definitely changing to more limited overs straight win/lose.