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Cricket Manufacturers / Brands => Ayrtek Cricket => Topic started by: Ayrtek Cricket on March 29, 2018, 06:59:22 PM

Title: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on March 29, 2018, 06:59:22 PM
Evening CBFers

Itís something I have looked at in the past and am wrestling with resurrecting again if their is an appetite for it.

Essentially it would be a ďTraditionalĒ looking helmet but incorporating the 2 liner types I offer (Tek which is the EPS and AYR which is the air liner). Obviously still looking at advancing the safety offerings in the process as prelim research has been v v positive.

Feedback appreciated as youíre the best placed people to poll given the huge demographic we have across the age/ability and geographic locations.

Any questions please feel free to ask.

Thanks in advance.

Tom 
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on March 29, 2018, 07:13:39 PM
It depends how "traditional looking" it is and, more importantly, what the comfort and visibility are like! 
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on March 29, 2018, 07:21:36 PM
Conceptually something like the below, vision wise it would follow current design trends by offering a 45mm gap between peak and grille.

(https://s14.postimg.org/5gy02powh/53_F46721-95_AD-4_E62-_B7_F0-63_DDE4_C18_A76.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dmg20vd59/)

Comfort id hope would be superior to other helmets as the air liner offers a unique cushioning system that others donít have. The EPS version would use foam padding the same as the PremierTek range does currently.
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: procricket on March 29, 2018, 07:22:55 PM
I would buy that tomorrow mate
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: InternalTraining on March 29, 2018, 07:26:48 PM

Feedback appreciated as youíre the best placed people to poll given the huge demographic we have across the age/ability and geographic locations.


If you can address the issue of visibility, then the shape wouldn't matter. Cricket helmets generally have a very poor visibility and as a batter, I have to move my head up and down to track some deliveries. Ideally, the grill should pose no blockage to the view as if facing a delivery without a helmet.

Ultimately, that's the problem a manufacturer should address: visibility.

Can your helmet provide superior visibility?
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Jaffa on March 29, 2018, 07:33:22 PM
I think people don't exactly like the new Masuri helmets but put up with the looks. We all kind of said 'no way' when the first images came out. Now I get the feeling they're accepted not loved.

If you come up with a helmet looking like the older Masuri or even better (IMHO) the Albion 98 but with a more sturdy peak plus fixed grille, you'll be on to a winner (with or without air liner).

I really liked my Ayrtek with AYR but the weight and wanting something more traditional made me change (instead of going the carbon fibre route).

I also like the twin bar idea. Is there a patent on that?
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Red Ink Cricket on March 29, 2018, 07:36:14 PM
Conceptually something like the below, vision wise it would follow current design trends by offering a 45mm gap between peak and grille.

(https://s14.postimg.org/5gy02powh/53_F46721-95_AD-4_E62-_B7_F0-63_DDE4_C18_A76.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dmg20vd59/)

Comfort id hope would be superior to other helmets as the air liner offers a unique cushioning system that others donít have. The EPS version would use foam padding the same as the PremierTek range does currently.

Love that!! Need a new lid as my Masuri Iíve had for years is well passed it . Canít get on with the new ones as they are just too heavy. Stupidly sold my Ayrtek lid after a poor run of form with the bat, went back to the old Masuri as it was more familiar. More than happy to test any samples with a ti grille!
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: six and out on March 29, 2018, 07:46:48 PM
Conceptually something like the below, vision wise it would follow current design trends by offering a 45mm gap between peak and grille.

(https://s14.postimg.org/5gy02powh/53_F46721-95_AD-4_E62-_B7_F0-63_DDE4_C18_A76.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dmg20vd59/)

Comfort id hope would be superior to other helmets as the air liner offers a unique cushioning system that others donít have. The EPS version would use foam padding the same as the PremierTek range does currently.

I think these would fly off the shelves Tom.

As others have said a lot of people don't get on with the new style Masuri's but are maybe put off the Arytek because of the styling so if you made it look like an old school Masuri with Arytek comfort and safety then you are definitely on to a winner.
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Tailendfielder on March 29, 2018, 07:58:11 PM
I would buy one but i think you will sell hundreds. Particularly with the other innovations like reebok pump and colour options.
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Canners on March 29, 2018, 08:03:03 PM
Iíd take one
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Calzehbhoy on March 29, 2018, 08:05:46 PM
Iíve said yes as love the look! Probably a no in practice as have a custom being finished from you currently mate.

If you can get the same sizings covered with these as the current Ayr range then I think they would sell well.

Maybe do a trial with just the Ayr range to see as the foam maybe isnít offering that much that isnít there already?
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Buzz on March 29, 2018, 08:14:41 PM
Tom you should crowd fund your first batch...

P.s. I am no lid designer, but I think your peake will need to be a bit thicker...
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: 19reading87 on March 29, 2018, 08:16:30 PM
Most certainly. Would it be cloth covered?
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 29, 2018, 08:17:52 PM
Iíd give that design a go Tom, if you need some ££ to get some test ones let me know
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on March 29, 2018, 08:21:12 PM
Tom you should crowd fund your first batch...

P.s. I am no lid designer, but I think your peake will need to be a bit thicker...

That was my thought process in all honesty but Iíve got no experience in the area so would have to look at the viability of it.
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on March 29, 2018, 08:22:26 PM
Most certainly. Would it be cloth covered?

Cloth covering is an option yes but ideally straight out of the mould as a colour to save weight and another assembly process being required.
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Six Sixes Cricket on March 29, 2018, 08:22:48 PM
Not until Iíve sold all my stock @Ayrtek Cricket !!
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on March 29, 2018, 08:26:24 PM
Not until Iíve sold all my stock @Ayrtek Cricket !!

Dual ranges mate....The Trad and The Rad 👌
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: liscon12 on March 29, 2018, 08:56:18 PM
Any thoughts on changing the grill style and shape @Ayrtek Cricket ?
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on March 29, 2018, 09:15:00 PM
Some but with the cost involved in new tooling and the fact the current one hasnít caused any major cause for complaint it wasnít high up the priority list TBH.
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: jamferg on March 29, 2018, 09:19:57 PM
my thoughts are that we should look back to the dawn of the cricket helmet and invest in ultra lightweight and strong see through protective face materials  mirroring the old Perspex face guards. complete vision , no grills
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Number4 on March 30, 2018, 12:18:49 AM
I like the look and idea Tom... Although I still like the look of the innovative original Ayrtek

P.S Do you do nude sketches as well? Iím available 👋🍆
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on March 30, 2018, 06:10:50 AM
I like the look and idea Tom... Although I still like the look of the innovative original Ayrtek

P.S Do you do nude sketches as well? Iím available 👋🍆

Having done an A-level in art that was a truly horrific day when we did life drawing...my eyes have never recovered!
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Biggie Smalls on March 30, 2018, 06:12:36 AM
Tom , i abstained from voting ! :D
Basically i like the looks of the rad helmet  (as you know, i have two).
I think the trad looks with air liner would sell - when teammates see mine they are always intrigued and impressed. Most hate the rad helmet shape though....so give them what they want huh !?!.
Me personally , i love the carbon look and my main needs are super lightweight and comfort....so ive no need to change. But if a trad arytek with air liner came out and was the same weight and had the same or better ventilation then id consider it .
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Biggie Smalls on March 30, 2018, 06:14:28 AM
Someone let @InternalTraining know there's some cricket equipment innovation going on !  :D
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Jaffa on March 30, 2018, 07:42:58 AM
So long as it doesnít look like the Albion NXT youíll be onto a winner.
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Byo on March 30, 2018, 07:46:17 AM
I'd be very interested mate, and one for the boy if you did youth ones.
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on March 30, 2018, 07:56:51 AM
Thanks all for feedback so far, new helmets take a bit longer than a new bat design to bring to market due to safety testing and a certificate of conformity being required.

If there is a definate appetite (which there seems to be) then ill look into the project a bt further as it's likely I will need to do some crowd funding for it (Ive just spent a fair bit building a new home office to work from and had a 2nd baby) to help with fast tracking its progress.

Would this be something worth pursuing if people could for example "invest' in obtaining one of the 1st off the production line for a upfront payment?

Realistically there will be 3 models if going down the AYR route with prices in line with what the RRP's are currnetly on the range, whilst id love to bring them down a little the cost of using the air liner isnt cheap to manufacture:-

1.Carbon Fibre with Ti grille
2.Plastic with Ti grille
3.Plastic with Steel grille
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: smilley792 on March 30, 2018, 08:19:36 AM
Iíve had several stereos and were my choice of helmet. But Iíve always ran your eps lined ones as just didnít get on with the airliner.

End of last year I switched to stumping and struggled for vision with the ayrtek when stood up, but borrowing a masuri(new os2 thing) I really got on with it.


The new design with a non airliner lining would interest me.
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: InternalTraining on March 30, 2018, 02:24:17 PM
Someone let @InternalTraining know there's some cricket equipment innovation going on !  :D

Hahahahah.

How about a new innovative, re-designed grill that improves visibility and allows batsman to play balls close to body without tilting head too much (if you roll your eyeballs downwards, grill gets in the way). :)
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Mattsky on March 30, 2018, 02:36:06 PM
I don't get excited by the look of cricket helmets. Most of them make you look like you should be riding a horse.
But that one looks like a corker Tom. If I was in the market for one, that'd be top of my list to check out. Especially a lightweight version with your whizzy liner and a stem guard.
So yes, I'd definitely be very interested, provided visibility was half decent - or as good as it can be within current regulations.

Thanks for giving us the opportunity to feed back.
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Boondougal on March 30, 2018, 03:51:46 PM
Like it.... a lot!
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: thecord on March 30, 2018, 04:02:31 PM
I put no but only because Iím more than happy with my current design @Ayrtek Cricket helmet
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: JK Lewis on March 30, 2018, 04:22:35 PM
Like the look, more than normal Ayrtek lids tbh. For me though, ventilation (the lack of) is the main issue. Would love to see honeycomb panels being integrated into the top or sides of a traditional style helmet.
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Biggie Smalls on March 30, 2018, 04:45:53 PM
I still want tom to make a 12 vent hole ayrtek!   :D
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on April 01, 2018, 09:13:36 PM
Little rendered image of what the helmet would look like aesthetically, it includes some design elements that have worked well on the Rad helmet to stop peak flexion and sideways deformation upon impact.

(https://s14.postimg.org/spzxg7a01/3_CEF6_C6_E-6488-47_D6-944_A-3_CB80_A78163_A.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/985a09d25/)
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: golders on April 01, 2018, 10:02:27 PM
Really cool!When will these samples be ready....
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on April 01, 2018, 10:08:49 PM
Need to look at project planning and costs involved to get it set-up property TBH. Lots of areas like Tooling, testing, sample costs etc to work out.

Anyone on here got any experience with crowd funding?
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Buzz on April 02, 2018, 08:11:15 AM
Talk to Foxy Tom... but it shouldn't by hard.
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on April 02, 2018, 08:35:45 AM
I shall pick his brains over it and update people in due course.

If anyone is keen to back the project personally via crowd funding then that would help fast track it into production.

my initial thinking is similar to Hedkayse project where early backers get to obtain a model at a reduced rate whilst still allowing sufficient funds to be pumped into the tooling/testing and 1st production run to get things moving.

If people had to part with a min of £100 and a max of £250 to back the project do you think this is unreasonable if you got a helmet at the end of it with an RRP above this amount?
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: DorsetDan on April 02, 2018, 09:04:13 AM
Hi Tom,

I love the idea of a traditional looking helmet with all your tech in. Something like the first sketch and cloth covered to look very, very traditional would be amazing and genuinely offer an aesthetic alternative to those who don't dig the current look.

The render looks a bit too much like the current helmets for me but I realise I am in the minority with this and I get that that has positives associated with it too, keeping the brand identity, standing out in a sea of traditional helmets, etc, etc :) I do like that the overall form factor of the render is smaller than the existing helmet which was my only criticism as someone with a small head.

Rad and radder ranges, pushing the envelope of helmet design would be awesome too. I loved your honeycomb sketches and although a risky business decision (costs, more niche market, etc), it is the type of thing that would interest me more personally but I fully appreciate that the world is wider than the CBF :)

Great to hear about all of the new products and paint jobs and all the best going forwards

Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on April 02, 2018, 09:11:21 AM
Thanks Dan

In my effort to be open and honest the Trad model would be looking to appeal to the mass market where the Rad model (as @KettonJake pointed out of another thread) is more niche is its overall appeal. Pushing the Rad range further whilst from my perspective as a sports equipment designer would be great itís not something I think the cricket market is ready to buy into just yet.

The Trad model would be something that Still maintained the design values I know work but aesthetically more like the traditional look people are comfortable with and look for when buying a helmet.

To hit the price points it will need to have 2 variations of liner so that I can bring something to market sub £100 and offer a rising price point with Ti grills/air liner tech etc.
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Boondougal on April 02, 2018, 09:39:38 AM
Hi Tom,
I think having a product that you feel had more mass market appeal may enable you to leverage your tech and develop the Rad side of things.. which by its nature will be more niche, hit and miss and maybe even just a fashion spike... but if you have a solid selling standard design it can help massively.

I can't help but think the junior market needs something specific? With your liner tech a helmet thats going to last 2/3 seasons as little Jonnys head starts to grow...

Or how about a bespoke fitting service? I imagine you could somehow use that D30 (orange stuff in the box I bought) in combination with a head mould to make the perfect fitting helmet liner.... I kind of imagine it would  be like when I had to mould my gum shield as a kid...


And like everyone else says... ventilation.

Have thought about a tie up with a training aid provider? Surely now every kid has to wear a helmet (quite right if you ask me... have you seen how many people have been hit in the EngvNZ test) their is a plethora or things that could be "clipped" onto a helmet to support coaching? Or specific grills that would help coach with demonstrating level eye or head movement etc etc...


Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on April 14, 2018, 10:12:07 PM
Info starting to trickle in re pricing for moulds etc now. Will be doing some research into crowd funding vs early adopter/pre-order options shortly for those who wish too back the project 👍

Ball park figure to get it funded to the stage where its into production is going to be around the £25K mark which will cover the cost of samples for testing.
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: liscon12 on April 20, 2018, 10:36:28 PM
Indigogo, Kickstarter?
Title: Re: CBF Trad v Rad Poll
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on April 21, 2018, 07:22:15 AM
Yeh think they are prob the best options, I know Foxy used indigogo for Hedkayse.

Been manic this week helping out with ground works to try and get the club ready for today but back to normal next week so will sit down and get something looked into and organised.