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General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: ppccopener on April 25, 2018, 07:33:17 PM

Title: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: ppccopener on April 25, 2018, 07:33:17 PM
How refreshing to read an honest assessment of the last few months from the man himself in the press over the last couple of days.

None of the normal BS associated with current England players:

He said it was a relief to be dropped
He said he has not played well enough to warrant a place for a while
He said being up and down the order unsettled him and he does not feel at home in the team.
He appears to have no ego, no inflated opinion of himself

And he says he will have to get back into the team as a batsman, as he has always said he is a batsman who bowls.

I really really like Mo Ali, he has played some great knocks for us to dig us out of trouble many times, but if he is going to get back into the team as a batter it might be a tough ask

What do you think? And also......relating it to us clubbies

Does it matter if you do not have a settled number to bat in your team? If the skipper says 'pad up, you might be in next or you might be 6, it depends' - does that knacker your game completely.

I have to say, personally having opened for donkeys years I like to know where I'm batting. Now I'm down the order and younger guys moved up, I much prefer to know I'm batting 5 or 6...  I can't be doing with this 'anywhere' business

Am I am bit precious or are there others on the forum who get messed about? It's a team game, maybe we should just get on with it..... :)
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Buzz on April 25, 2018, 07:41:34 PM
We need more people like Moeen in the world.

As for batting position, I think different people need different security. I like to know where I am batting, although am less bothered now than in the past.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: procricket on April 25, 2018, 07:49:14 PM
It is a horrible feeling look in from the outside in any team and I think the culture is very wrong. Of course there has to be flexibility but not knowing and although he has not directly said it feeling on the outside can lead to isolation.

I feel it part of a captain role in club cricket to make sure nobody turning up not expecting to bat at 3 ends up at 10 without explanation
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on April 25, 2018, 07:53:44 PM
Personally hope he does get back in the England side once he finds form again, proven international quality bat but has found himself bang out of nick and itís lasted a while maybe thatís to do with the pressure of being publicly named as Englandís No1 spin bowler which he clearly isnít good enough to be underpinned by him knowing he isnít at that level. An inform Ali would walk into most Test sides at No7 and thatís where he should bat
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: richthekeeper on April 25, 2018, 08:16:18 PM
I think my clubís batting unit suffered lasts year from a lack of roles. Other than mysef as an opener the other 10 players all batted in different positions throughout the season and this led to some confused thinking at the crease.

As for Moeen, the first step on the road to recovery is admitting thereís a problem!
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Seniorplayer on April 25, 2018, 08:18:09 PM
If I am moved around the batting order it has a mental affect when it's my turn to bat put simply can't adapt to bat anywhere except 1 or 7
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Manormanic on April 25, 2018, 08:30:15 PM
 
...proven international quality bat...Ali would walk into most Test sides at No7 and thatís where he should bat

Is he really a proven international quality bat?  I'd have said he is a proven international luxury player, except perhaps in sub continental conditions, where his wristy game is more suited and he is less likely to be exposed by the bully boy stuff. 

Thats not to say I don't want to see him come good - he's a whole hearted cricketer and a great role model.  But lets not kid ourselves that he could be the solution at three.  In reality, he either gets picked as the spinner in English conditions - I hope this is not the case - or he gets in the luxury slot that is created by having Stokes and YJB in the team.

Interesting debate though - which do people prefer:
Bairstow/Stokes/Foakes at 5, 6, 7
or
Stokes/Bairstow/Ali at 5, 6, 7?
 
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: liscon12 on April 25, 2018, 08:30:55 PM
When he says he doesn't feel at home in the team I wonder if he's also refering to maybe not feeling like 'one of the boys'?

The 'lad' culture runs right through the set up, watch any of the player Instagram profiles and it's just constant banter and larkiing about, plus it must be hard when you're the only Muslim in the playing XI (apart from Adil when playing ODI).
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: ppccopener on April 25, 2018, 08:40:04 PM
When he says he doesn't feel at home in the team I wonder if he's also refering to maybe not feeling like 'one of the boys'?

The 'lad' culture runs right through the set up, watch any of the player Instagram profiles and it's just constant banter and larkiing about, plus it must be hard when you're the only muslin in the playing XI (apart from Adil when playing ODI).

This is what I read from this article too, although it's not, and you probably wouldn't expect it to be, crystal clear.

As far as I have read....Mo has all the time, facilities he needs, to practice his faith. If you remember a couple of years back he was uncomfortable with the sponsor logo being an alcoholic drinks company- so he did not have to wear that shirt showing that sponsorship- if I remember correctly.

You would like to think there is mutual repect in the team, we don't know but you might think nights out would clash.

Would that make a difference to feeling part of the team? It might....
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: FattusCattus on April 25, 2018, 09:01:24 PM
Bottom line is that, based on the last 6 months, he is not in our top 7 batsmen, particularly as he doesnít fit into our top 3. He is also not an effective spinner any more.

I really want him to succeed, but he is simply not the best option anymore.

If everyone was playing to their best ability, this is the side I would love to pick:

Stoneman
Hameed
Cook
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Curran S
Leach
Gleeson
Anderson
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Biggie Smalls on April 26, 2018, 07:58:59 AM
I like Mo . Good honest cricketer . If only the selectors had taken his self appraisals more seriously this could have been avoided .
I think Ali is a test level batting allrounder at 7 .
Personally,  i hate not knowing where im batting , always have ( plus the nerves of waiting to bat does my head in) , hence why i became an opener over 20yrs ago.
Last season i was injured and returned 2nd half of the season only as a spinner ( couldnt bat or run properly) and batted 11 . Every innings i would wonder how anyone could sit around waiting to bat . It's torture .
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: justnotcricket86 on April 26, 2018, 08:43:06 AM
Just for those who wish to read the full interview

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/apr/25/moeen-ali-england-test-side-ipl-interview (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/apr/25/moeen-ali-england-test-side-ipl-interview)

Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on April 26, 2018, 09:58:01 AM

Is he really a proven international quality bat?  I'd have said he is a proven international luxury player, except perhaps in sub continental conditions, where his wristy game is more suited and he is less likely to be exposed by the bully boy stuff. 

Thats not to say I don't want to see him come good - he's a whole hearted cricketer and a great role model.  But lets not kid ourselves that he could be the solution at three.  In reality, he either gets picked as the spinner in English conditions - I hope this is not the case - or he gets in the luxury slot that is created by having Stokes and YJB in the team.

Interesting debate though - which do people prefer:
Bairstow/Stokes/Foakes at 5, 6, 7
or
Stokes/Bairstow/Ali at 5, 6, 7?
 

5 Test hundreds low down the order I would say he is proven international level and No7 not at the No3 slot.

Stokes, Bairstow, Ali would be my preferred set up
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: jjelricksmith on April 26, 2018, 01:53:41 PM
Bottom line is that, based on the last 6 months, he is not in our top 7 batsmen, particularly as he doesnít fit into our top 3. He is also not an effective spinner any more.

I really want him to succeed, but he is simply not the best option anymore.

If everyone was playing to their best ability, this is the side I would love to pick:

Stoneman
Hameed
Cook
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Curran S
Leach
Gleeson
Anderson

Can't wait for Sam Curran or any sort of variation to make the side. Although leach? Gleeson? Stoneman also isnt long for the side if they can get Hameed in some form.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: jjelricksmith on April 26, 2018, 01:54:56 PM
Would be great to have a leggie come through the ranks in the next few years.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: FattusCattus on April 26, 2018, 02:38:21 PM
Leach only because he is the man in posession - and is perhaps a little more steady until Crane is fit and gets overs under his belt

Gleeson, only because press reports from the games he has played in stated that he was bowling quick even in wet tops and was darting it about a bit.

I'm hoping Gubbins overhauls Stoneman in the selectors favours, but I would like to see Stony given a few more go's first.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: FattusCattus on April 26, 2018, 02:39:10 PM
Would be great to have a leggie come through the ranks in the next few years.

Fair play to Lancs for giving Parkinson a few overs early in the season.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: edge on April 26, 2018, 05:35:21 PM
Would have be good to see Moeen asking to open the batting at Worcs and trying to churn out the first class runs to prove people wrong and get his place in the side back. Shame he's giving some Indian benches a good polish instead!
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Manormanic on April 26, 2018, 05:38:01 PM
Can't wait for Sam Curran or any sort of variation to make the side. Although leach? Gleeson? Stoneman also isnt long for the side if they can get Hameed in some form.

Out of the three, Curran worries me most
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Manormanic on April 26, 2018, 05:38:32 PM
Would be great to have a leggie come through the ranks in the next few years.

After how Rashid was treated...?
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: jamesisapayne on April 26, 2018, 09:13:01 PM
Leach only because he is the man in posession - and is perhaps a little more steady until Crane is fit and gets overs under his belt

I'd love to know what you've spotted in Crane that makes him a surefire pick above Leach Bruce - He looks a good prospect but that's it at the moment. Leach has shown great pedigree and consistency over the past few seasons.

Crane's hardly set the world alight.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on April 26, 2018, 10:20:49 PM
Crane isn't even the best spinner at Hampshire.

Yes he's a young leg spinner with potential, but he's in no way good enough to be a frontline Test spinner yet, nor do I see him as the long term answer. He's a luxury bowler really, and is going to be another victim of overhype I fear.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Big Mac on April 27, 2018, 01:30:52 AM
After how Rashid was treated...?

Rashid isn't good though
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: FattusCattus on April 27, 2018, 07:46:48 AM
Also, I still believe (with absolutely no evidence whatsoever) that Rashid was a reluctant long-format player, and that attitude was clear to the management too, who then chose to move on from him.

I'm sure I'll be shot down by 't'brotherhood' but he seemed quick enough to stop 4 day cricket and I'm sure I read an article about his apparent laziness and reluctance on occasion to play.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: FattusCattus on April 27, 2018, 07:51:00 AM
I'd love to know what you've spotted in Crane that makes him a surefire pick above Leach Bruce - He looks a good prospect but that's it at the moment. Leach has shown great pedigree and consistency over the past few seasons.

Crane's hardly set the world alight.

Oh, don't get me wrong - it's more hope than any hard fact. It seems if you can get a wrist-spinner to somewhere near the required standard, whilst a luxury, he's a wicket taker and a potential match-winner.

I actually like Leach and as an ex-SLA myself, I'd love him to do well. It's just that I would love a leggie - any leggie - to come to the fore. I have also read good things about Parkinson at Lancs too.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Seniorplayer on April 27, 2018, 08:21:02 AM
Leach best prospect and he can bat
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: FattusCattus on April 27, 2018, 08:30:41 AM
We shouldn't be picking spinners because they can bat a bit. we should pick spinners who can take wickets.

Part-time batting spinners have been Englands downfall at times -

Mo
Dawson
Ansari

pick a spinner who can do the job and let Stokes, Woakes and Bairstow shore up the middle order.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Manormanic on April 27, 2018, 11:12:59 AM
Also, I still believe (with absolutely no evidence whatsoever) that Rashid was a reluctant long-format player, and that attitude was clear to the management too, who then chose to move on from him.

I'm sure I'll be shot down by 't'brotherhood' but he seemed quick enough to stop 4 day cricket and I'm sure I read an article about his apparent laziness and reluctance on occasion to play.

Dilly is an odd character - it's not so much about roles and formats as a need to feel loved. He's the classic example of someone who needed to be given word up front that the job was his come what may for the next year.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: jjelricksmith on April 27, 2018, 12:13:52 PM
Out of the three, Curran worries me most

As in worries because he's a very decent bowler and should be at least training with England at home to get practice. Or because you dont rate him. Any left armer is a blessing these days.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: jjelricksmith on April 27, 2018, 12:16:05 PM
Also, I still believe (with absolutely no evidence whatsoever) that Rashid was a reluctant long-format player, and that attitude was clear to the management too, who then chose to move on from him.

I'm sure I'll be shot down by 't'brotherhood' but he seemed quick enough to stop 4 day cricket and I'm sure I read an article about his apparent laziness and reluctance on occasion to play.

Can't blame him, 4 days is a long time. Too long for most.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Seniorplayer on April 27, 2018, 03:36:55 PM
We shouldn't be picking spinners because they can bat a bit. we should pick spinners who can take wickets.

Part-time batting spinners have been Englands downfall at times -

Mo
Dawson
Ansari

pick a spinner who can do the job and let Stokes, Woakes and Bairstow shore up the middle order.

Or maybe  a better bet is to let Stokes leach and Bairstow shore up the middle order
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Rob580 on April 27, 2018, 03:42:06 PM
Or maybe  a better bet is to let Stokes leach and Bairstow shore up the middle order

I think you might be getting Leach confused with someone else. As far as I know he's in the Tufnell and Malcolm school of tail end batting!
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: alexhilly1492 on April 27, 2018, 03:57:54 PM
I think you might be getting Leach confused with someone else. As far as I know he's in the Tufnell and Malcolm school of tail end batting!

he looked ok in new zealand, nothing special but no chris martin, looks to get in line and not get out

better than broad!
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Manormanic on April 27, 2018, 06:19:37 PM
If anything, Leach is a pre-Mitchell Johnson Jimmy Anderson.  No ability, but tons of gumption.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Yorkershire on April 27, 2018, 06:21:42 PM
Think Ali still has some life in him but needs to play more county and less 20 20.

Stick to batting 7. I am sure he had an injury around the time they went out to Australia.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: KIPPERS on May 14, 2018, 02:16:50 PM
I bat at 1 or 11 makes bugger all difference to me. How's your season going Carlo.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: SD on May 29, 2018, 08:14:20 AM
Mo mentions at every opportunity he gets that he is a batsman who bowls a bit but he was picked to play for England as the front line spinner and his batting is no where near the level required to get selected as a specialist batsman in test cricket.  Unless his bowling improves his internation appearances may be restricted to limited overs stuff
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Manormanic on May 29, 2018, 10:20:32 AM
Mo mentions at every opportunity he gets that he is a batsman who bowls a bit but he was picked to play for England as the front line spinner and his batting is no where near the level required to get selected as a specialist batsman in test cricket.  Unless his bowling improves his internation appearances may be restricted to limited overs stuff

I'd be amazed if he doesn't at the very least go to Sri Lanka this winter - he plays spin better than most, and will offer an option with the ball.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: SD on May 29, 2018, 12:48:25 PM
Ultimately, Mo is a big failure on the part of the selectors.  It is difficult to see how a guy with a first class bowling average of 41 was ever going to be able to make the step up and hold down a place as the team's front line spinner.  I feel we would have been a more successful team in recent years if the time and support that has been invested in Mo had bene invested in Adil Rashid instead.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: csnew on May 29, 2018, 12:55:27 PM
How about an investigation next  ;)
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on May 29, 2018, 01:35:12 PM
He'd have been a much more successful batsman had he been allowed to concentrate on his batting. I feel sorry for him in this regard.. He had serious talent.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Duck Duck Mongoose on September 16, 2018, 06:53:40 PM
Apropos of nothing, and without wishing anyone to make any potentially libellous statements, I was just wondering if anyone had heard any names of any Australian players who may or may not be connected to Moeen in some way?
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Duck Duck Mongoose on October 16, 2018, 08:26:16 AM
Anyone? Are we all just assuming that whoever called Moeen "Osama" isn't playing for Australia at the moment for whatever reason...?
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Kulli on October 16, 2018, 08:30:16 AM
Anyone? Are we all just assuming that whoever called Moeen "Osama" isn't playing for Australia at the moment for whatever reason...?

We're presuming it's because he's banned for telling someone to sandpaper the ball.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Novak on October 16, 2018, 08:39:18 AM
Name start with  W or is that just speculation
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Kulli on October 16, 2018, 08:59:25 AM
Just guessing, but he seems a likely candidate.
Title: Re: Moeen Ali...what next.
Post by: Duck Duck Mongoose on October 16, 2018, 11:25:46 AM
Whoever it is we can safely say that he's a wa**er