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General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: AJ2014 on May 31, 2019, 07:22:26 AM

Title: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: AJ2014 on May 31, 2019, 07:22:26 AM
A lot similarities, both very exciting and talented personalities!
Who's your, say, more favourite? 🙂
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: Buzz on May 31, 2019, 07:24:08 AM
Stokes. Better batsman, better fielder and takes more wockets bowling.
If you look at the stats, it isn't even close.
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: jonny77 on May 31, 2019, 07:28:12 AM
Stokes for me overall, although for a one off game changing spell in terms of bowling, Flintoff.
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: alexhilly1492 on May 31, 2019, 07:39:57 AM
I think when in top form with either I'd take stokes with bat Fred with ball

Both have that effect on the team here they drag everyone else with them and improve standards

But overall I'd have the say stokes he bats better bowls more consistently and is a better all round fielder (that's not to out Fred down but he was only really good in the slips)
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: petehosk on May 31, 2019, 07:43:26 AM
Flintoff's bowling in International ODI's is far better average. But Stokes batting is far better than Flintoffs in ODIs!
(In Tests they are similar with Stokes having slightly better bowling and batting averages)
But I assume you are asking from an ODI format?

In which case I feel that Stokes is the better suited in the team. His batting average of over 38 is perfect for no.5/6 batsman! Plus he bowls well and certainly takes wickets and gives batsmen trouble!
Plus Stokes is the better fielder, although Flintoff was pretty decent.
So as excellent as Flintoff was, I would take Stokes in Tests and ODIs please.
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: velvetsky01 on May 31, 2019, 07:49:45 AM
I think stokes wins on current form ha

Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: ppccopener on May 31, 2019, 08:11:51 AM
This is a tough one...what I would say is donít discount botham the bowler in his prime, not when he finished

He had pace and swing it big...

I think itís very tight choosing the best, Stokes is potentially the better bat, his test average should be much better for the talent.
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on May 31, 2019, 08:25:00 AM
Stokes in a street brawl, Freddie in a pedalo race...
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: HellomynameisJ on May 31, 2019, 08:42:12 AM
Stats don't necessarily tell the truth of it, I think the quality of international cricket was much better in Flintoffs time,  with the exception of fielding, the expectations are so much higher for players now that you probably wouldnt get a game
 if you fielded at the standards of 10-15 years ago. That being said, I think Stokes is more talented, not that it necessarily equates to being a better player.
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: ppccopener on May 31, 2019, 09:46:34 AM
This is a tough one...what I would say is don’t discount botham the bowler in his prime, not when he finished

He had pace and swing it big...

I think it’s very tight choosing the best, Stokes is potentially the better bat, his test average should be much better for the talent.

please ignore this post. A result of not reading the subject correctly.I offer apologies.
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on May 31, 2019, 04:06:04 PM
As has been said in tests Flintoff and ODI stokes. Donít see anyone on the same level as McGrath and Warne these days plus steyn in his pomp, Ahktar, etc so unsure how stokes would have handled them. Plus having to bowl at Kallis, Smith, ponying, Dravid, sachin etc
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on May 31, 2019, 04:28:14 PM
Tests Flintoff

White ball stokes

Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: LateBloomer on May 31, 2019, 05:37:59 PM
Stokes in any format for me.

Flintoffs best performances as an England player were actually almost all with the ball and towards the end I can remember him taking the new ball at 90mph and batting below the keeper (Prior i think). This was when the Australians feared him most.

Flintoffs batting was a decent second string but Stokes is the better genuine all rounder in all formats
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: six and out on May 31, 2019, 06:49:39 PM
Very difficult to compare when one is a bowling allrounder and one is a batting allrounder. Add in to that it's different eras it gets tricky.

Fred was a good enough bowler to be given the new ball, that isn't going to happen to Stokes.

However Stokes has batted 5 on many occasions for us, Fred didn't get anywhere near up there.

Ultimately if you look at who's 'worse' discipline is better, then you have to say that Stokes edges it for me as he offers more with the ball than Fred did with the bat.
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: JB on May 31, 2019, 07:07:45 PM
Trouble is you only remember the best spells and batting performances of Freddie as it happened a good few years ago. With stokes being current you base it on how heís playing at present or recently.

@Buzzís logic of basing it on the stats is the only way to compare without looking back purely on fond memories
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: Buzz on May 31, 2019, 07:48:09 PM
Genuinely I have watched a lot of Flintoff play, I was at lords when he dismantled the prime saffa attack with his woodworm and it snapped.
I watched masses of the 2005 ashes.
Flintoff was a gun player.

But stokes is just better.
He scores more hundreds, fields better and has taken more five fors.
Both in their prime. I am picking Stokes.
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: NT50 on May 31, 2019, 08:33:59 PM
Trouble is you only remember the best spells and batting performances of Freddie as it happened a good few years ago. With stokes being current you base it on how heís playing at present or recently.

@Buzzís logic of basing it on the stats is the only way to compare without looking back purely on fond memories

Massively agree with this bit. I think people look back with rose-tinted glasses a lot in sport hence why a lot of the older generation harp on about how things were 'better back in my day,' and hence talk nonsense about how the West Indies/Aussies of the 70's/80's bowled at 100mph and no batsman ever played a bad shot.

 I think it's why people won't fully appreciate current players until they're long retired. Aka Smith/Kohli will be talked of as genuine greats.
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: Tailendfielder on May 31, 2019, 09:16:18 PM
Id pick Flintoff
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: KettonJake on June 01, 2019, 12:02:45 AM
Genuinely I have watched a lot of Flintoff play, I was at lords when he dismantled the prime saffa attack with his woodworm and it snapped.
I watched masses of the 2005 ashes.
Flintoff was a gun player.

But stokes is just better.
He scores more hundreds, fields better and has taken more five fors.
Both in their prime. I am picking Stokes.

Iíd never chuck stokes the new ball with Langer and Hayden opening up and Ricky P at 3. Fred every time.
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: Yorkershire on June 01, 2019, 06:06:38 AM
As much as I like Flintoff.. I think Stokes is a better player and also applies himself in a much better way as a professional.
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: Buzz on June 01, 2019, 07:22:00 AM
Iíd never chuck stokes the new ball with Langer and Hayden opening up and Ricky P at 3. Fred every time.
On the flip side, Stokes cleans up the tail better than Flintoff could...

And previously Flintoff got to bowl at Langer, Hayden etc with the second new ball, not the first...! 😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: Manormanic on June 01, 2019, 05:52:20 PM
It's also tricky when one - Flintoff - had such a short window of fitness. That said, for me the Freddie of 2003 through 2007 was probably the greatest of the three England all rounders. His bowling was intense, and those long spells meant that batsmen never got respite, whilst his batting was decent enough.
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: Duck Duck Mongoose on July 11, 2019, 04:37:44 PM
Botham
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: joeljonno on July 12, 2019, 07:47:10 PM
Stokes. Better batsman, better fielder and takes more wockets bowling.
If you look at the stats, it isn't even close.

Let's look at the stats..

Test Batting
AF - 31.78
BS - 33.89

Test Bowling
AF - 32.79
BS - 31.92

That is very close in my opinion. Stokes a very small advantage, but I'd look at other stuff as well, such as economy rate to really break it down more.

ODI batting
AF - 32.02
BS - 39.36

ODI bowling
AF - 24.38
BS - 41.43

Stokes ahead on the batting, but Flintoff a lot better bowling average.

If you take everything into consideration, and could have one for all formats, it's a very difficult choice. I would go with Flintoff on personality, but statistically it's very hard to split them.

Statistically, Woakes isn't far away from them either
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: alexhilly1492 on July 12, 2019, 08:03:29 PM
Which stokes though? Pre or post Bristol?

Bowling pre batting post for me
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: Cholrudee on July 15, 2019, 10:24:52 AM
Stokes  :D
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: Mfarank on July 15, 2019, 11:14:29 AM
I think Stokes just answered that for you yesterday
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: Gurujames on July 15, 2019, 12:13:38 PM
Flintoff. Had England lost yesterday (which they would have except for a freak overthrow incident), I would have blamed Stokes for not scoring quickly enough. I know the bowling was good and pitch tough, but I feel he could have played better off of his legs and pushed a few more gaps.
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: smilley792 on July 15, 2019, 12:23:51 PM
Flintoff. Had England lost yesterday (which they would have except for a freak overthrow incident), I would have blamed Stokes for not scoring quickly enough. I know the bowling was good and pitch tough, but I feel he could have played better off of his legs and pushed a few more gaps.

How many Scores you chased down for a World Cup while your team mates crumble around you?
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on July 15, 2019, 01:06:44 PM
Flintoff. Had England lost yesterday (which they would have except for a freak overthrow incident), I would have blamed Stokes for not scoring quickly enough. I know the bowling was good and pitch tough, but I feel he could have played better off of his legs and pushed a few more gaps.

So needing 7 off 2 instead of 3 off 2 you think Stokes would have played the same shots?

So many idiotic comments about what did or didn't win England the game. Let's face it, we're into the realms of "what if" to which nobody can be sure of the answer!
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: jjelricksmith on July 15, 2019, 02:59:20 PM
So needing 7 off 2 instead of 3 off 2 you think Stokes would have played the same shots?

So many idiotic comments about what did or didn't win England the game. Let's face it, we're into the realms of "what if" to which nobody can be sure of the answer!

Exactly no need for 'what ifs' because we won  ;) :D
Title: Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on July 15, 2019, 04:09:20 PM
Exactly no need for 'what ifs' because we won  ;) :D

Can the 'no need for what-ifs' law also be applied to club cricket? Please?