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Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: Mfarank on January 24, 2020, 01:05:22 PM

Title: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Mfarank on January 24, 2020, 01:05:22 PM
From their insta pages. It doesnt look like they're TK made anymore. I also recently saw a guy at nets wielding a phantom dark edition which definitely wasn't TK.
Any leads on to where they moved production to? One guy told me its Robinsons in India.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fz9d7rYx/Screenshot-20200124-165653.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/v8gHt6s6/Screenshot-20200124-165825.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qd033XD3/Screenshot-20200124-165909.jpg)
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: jayralh on January 24, 2020, 01:11:30 PM
In top photo of phantom and one of pryzm shows grips are definitely Indian. Well to my eyes
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: mattw on January 24, 2020, 01:30:46 PM
Well spotted, these MSD Luxe bats are indeed Indian made (and some Instinct bats in the sale) - however I can confirm that our main range of bats will be made by our usual batmaker (I'm sure most know who that is) in the UK. We had a sample order of bats in from a very well known Indian bat maker to see what the quality is like - and they are really good. One of the Worcestershire pros who we've just agreed to sponsor is currently using a couple of the Indian made Instinct shape bats and I've had really good feedback from him.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: jayralh on January 24, 2020, 01:49:10 PM
Indian made bats are as good as any other make globally. Things like twine quality handle quality is what sets each apart. But if you could hand pick or trust someone then no issues buying /using indian/english/aus made after all english willow is being used as main ingredient.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Jimbo on January 24, 2020, 03:14:45 PM
Think a lot of people's problem with Indian batmakers is finding their bats from a reliable source which will provide a level of reassurance and customer service.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Mfarank on January 24, 2020, 03:27:13 PM
Nothing against indian made bats. I love my RS and SS bats as much as the english made ones. They provide excellent value for money. Charging 400 quid for an indian made model that used to be UK made last year requires a bit of a justification though. Especially when that same indian made can be sourced from india for half the price. In this regard i really respect pryzm because the indian made luxe bats are priced a lot lower than their regular bats.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Neon Cricket on January 24, 2020, 08:12:28 PM
Nothing against indian made bats. I love my RS and SS bats as much as the english made ones. They provide excellent value for money. Charging 400 quid for an indian made model that used to be UK made last year requires a bit of a justification though. Especially when that same indian made can be sourced from india for half the price. In this regard i really respect pryzm because the indian made luxe bats are priced a lot lower than their regular bats.

Trust me, this isn't correct - the majority of quality indian suppliers are just as expensive, if not more expensive, than a fair few UK batmakers.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Psi on January 24, 2020, 08:33:08 PM
Indian made bats are as good as any other make globally. Things like twine quality handle quality is what sets each apart. But if you could hand pick or trust someone then no issues buying /using indian/english/aus made after all english willow is being used as main ingredient.

Totally agree. Tonight I was comparing my TK made Mighty Willow with my trusted MRF Grand Edition at the nets (see numerous proud posts about these...) . The TK is still being knocked in but at the moment it is not hitting the ball as well as the MRF. I also made the mistake of trying it against new balls and some cracks have appeared when I got a thick edge. Lots of superglue and sanding when I got back. The Mrf really flies even when you hit it off the toe. This is actually Risky because I sometimes get out reaching for the bad ball but also leads to some very unlikely boundaries. I'm hoping the TK will overtake it with time, but currently not so.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: jayralh on January 24, 2020, 08:52:07 PM
Trust me, this isn't correct - the majority of quality indian suppliers are just as expensive, if not more expensive, than a fair few UK batmakers.
Top end bats are same price everywhere. If you spending top dollar then spend local. India come in play when buying with small budget. Anyway phantom or pryzm look class wherever they made.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Neon Cricket on January 24, 2020, 09:18:25 PM
Top end bats are same price everywhere. If you spending top dollar then spend local. India come in play when buying with small budget. Anyway phantom or pryzm look class wherever they made.

Whilst I agree to some extent, I've seen plenty of bats from various UK and Indian suppliers and some of the best have been Indian made - it's purely down to the craftsman behind the tools in my opinion.

Price wise there's very little difference unless you're talking Kashmir Willow vs English Willow, but I don't have much experience with this for obvious reasons
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on January 24, 2020, 10:18:04 PM
How many UK batmakers are there making for  'other brands' - on a reasonably large scale, I mean?
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Neon Cricket on January 24, 2020, 10:29:56 PM
On a truly large scale, not many - but I'm aware of at least 7 that will work with other brands (no doubt there's more out there too)
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: jayralh on January 24, 2020, 10:33:44 PM
Whilst I agree to some extent, I've seen plenty of bats from various UK and Indian suppliers and some of the best have been Indian made - it's purely down to the craftsman behind the tools in my opinion.

Price wise there's very little difference unless you're talking Kashmir Willow vs English Willow, but I don't have much experience with this for obvious reasons

Not Kashmir willow. For example look at pic. These are English willow direct from India at low end price.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VkrF9pQg/IMG-20200124-222300.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LJSf2ysg)
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: KW9221 on January 24, 2020, 10:42:51 PM
Totally agree. Tonight I was comparing my TK made Mighty Willow with my trusted MRF Grand Edition at the nets (see numerous proud posts about these...) . The TK is still being knocked in but at the moment it is not hitting the ball as well as the MRF. I also made the mistake of trying it against new balls and some cracks have appeared when I got a thick edge. Lots of superglue and sanding when I got back. The Mrf really flies even when you hit it off the toe. This is actually Risky because I sometimes get out reaching for the bad ball but also leads to some very unlikely boundaries. I'm hoping the TK will overtake it with time, but currently not so.
How many season old is mrf?
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Psi on January 25, 2020, 12:09:40 AM
Used for one season so far plus winter and summer nets. Going strong. Very early days for the Mighty Willow, so may well develop into something interesting too
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Mfarank on January 25, 2020, 02:29:34 AM
Trust me, this isn't correct - the majority of quality indian suppliers are just as expensive, if not more expensive, than a fair few UK batmakers.
I would respectfully have to disagree. With the exception of those ridiculous sharpie bats, it is fairly easy to source indian made bats at a fraction of the price (atleast for me as i stay in the UAE, have indian friends who visit home often and not much taxes involved). Take RS for example. If the rumor is true and they are infact manufacturing for phantom, i know the owner of RS and their top of the range english willow bats can be purchased for approximately 200 quid (in whatever profile and weight i want on the cleft of my choice).
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: KW9221 on January 25, 2020, 06:03:39 AM
I would respectfully have to disagree. With the exception of those ridiculous sharpie bats, it is fairly easy to source indian made bats at a fraction of the price (atleast for me as i stay in the UAE, have indian friends who visit home often and not much taxes involved). Take RS for example. If the rumor is true and they are infact manufacturing for phantom, i know the owner of RS and their top of the range english willow bats can be purchased for approximately 200 quid (in whatever profile and weight i want on the cleft of my choice).
I agree RS and BDM being exception. All the big brands like SS, New Balance, SG, BAS, DSC and Mrf are charging arm and a leg for their top bats. How much is SS gladiator or Ton Reserve Edition?
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: cesare_in on January 25, 2020, 06:18:31 AM
I agree RS and BDM being exception. All the big brands like SS, New Balance, SG, BAS, DSC and Mrf are charging arm and a leg for their top bats. How much is SS gladiator or Ton Reserve Edition?

DSC top- end is ~500  :o

https://www.dsc-cricket.com/kumar-sangakkara-cricket-bat-sanga11.html (https://www.dsc-cricket.com/kumar-sangakkara-cricket-bat-sanga11.html)
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: KW9221 on January 25, 2020, 06:21:36 AM
DSC top- end is ~500  :o

https://www.dsc-cricket.com/kumar-sangakkara-cricket-bat-sanga11.html (https://www.dsc-cricket.com/kumar-sangakkara-cricket-bat-sanga11.html)
Despite having cheaper labor. Only manufacturers putting more money in their own pockets. Unfortunately, cricket has become rich people sport.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Psi on January 25, 2020, 09:05:48 AM
Also, there is a huge range of cheaper but good English willow bat models from these Indian manufacturers which are impossible to obtain in England. BDM is pretty well impossible to source in UK at the moment, for example, except occasionally at ridiculous high prices. Eclipse AS have stopped stocking them because of the high prices to retailers over here.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: KW9221 on January 25, 2020, 09:16:23 AM
Also, there is a huge range of cheaper but good English willow bat models from these Indian manufacturers which are impossible to obtain in England. BDM is pretty well impossible to source in UK at the moment, for example, except occasionally at ridiculous high prices. Eclipse AS have stopped stocking them because of the high prices to retailers over here.
I am sure same goes for local UK brands. I have had some great Salix, B3s, hunts and Jedi bats for very reasonable price. My concern is why donít these brands change their pricing model based on where these bats are being made. Did phantom owner changed his prices after shifting his manufacturing to India?
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: alexhilly1492 on January 25, 2020, 09:53:43 AM
I would respectfully have to disagree. With the exception of those ridiculous sharpie bats, it is fairly easy to source indian made bats at a fraction of the price (atleast for me as i stay in the UAE, have indian friends who visit home often and not much taxes involved). Take RS for example. If the rumor is true and they are infact manufacturing for phantom, i know the owner of RS and their top of the range english willow bats can be purchased for approximately 200 quid (in whatever profile and weight i want on the cleft of my choice).

Is that because you know the owner? Sounds like your location and people you know allow you to get good deals.

Neon being a brand and looking to source as a business would probably, maybe, be in the best position to discuss the merits of uk vs India manufacturing prices for the uk market?

I have to say I have an SS that I never liked but used it at nets last week and suddenly it felt ok, nothing like my gm but felt ok!
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: cesare_in on January 25, 2020, 10:20:08 AM
Is that because you know the owner? Sounds like your location and people you know allow you to get good deals.

Neon being a brand and looking to source as a business would probably, maybe, be in the best position to discuss the merits of uk vs India manufacturing prices for the uk market?

I have to say I have an SS that I never liked but used it at nets last week and suddenly it felt ok, nothing like my gm but felt ok!

RS is genuinely inexpensive compared to other Indian brands at really good quality
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: jayralh on January 25, 2020, 10:37:19 AM
Reason for RS,Anthem,BAS and maybe Sondi to be cheap is that you can visit factory yourself and pick your bat from scratch. There are so many less known/heard names that I haven't mentioned.
BDM don't make bats for any brand so they stand own their own with own price tags.
In my head, UK brands with bats made in India are still expensive due to taxes in UK. Shop rents,business rates import duties etc. There are many other things involved that rise cost and they have to make living out of it.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: alexhilly1492 on January 25, 2020, 10:50:41 AM
RS is genuinely inexpensive compared to other Indian brands at really good quality

Fair enough! Amazed we don't see more of them!
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Kulli on January 25, 2020, 11:00:33 AM
I guess itís any stickering brands perogative but it is a little bait and switch when they start with one U.K. made brand, let that be know then switch to what is presumably a cheaper manufacturer.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Mfarank on January 25, 2020, 11:01:11 AM
Is that because you know the owner? Sounds like your location and people you know allow you to get good deals.
Not at all. When i said i know him i meant the same way as i know Tai from Blank Bats. There are no middle men. I speak directly to them and get my bat sourced directly from them and i would say at the same price they offer to everyone else. I wish my last name was Kohli :D
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Yorkershire on January 25, 2020, 11:55:37 AM
Never owned a phantom or pryzm bat.

But I dont understand why people are getting upset over 'same priced bat but manufactured cheaper'...

This happens daily to you in all forms of items you purchase. Businesses are always looking to be efficient and increase profit. The thing is CBF is nerd central for cricket so you hone in on this.

If you think you can get the same bat or quality elsewhere then you should exercise your right to do so. Think having a go at Phantom and Pryzm is unfair. Now on the hand if you are pointing it out to inform CBF members that they can get a bargain elsewhere...I think that is fair.

Just my 2 pence worth.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Mfarank on January 25, 2020, 12:03:19 PM
Never owned a phantom or pryzm bat.

But I dont understand why people are getting upset over 'same priced bat but manufactured cheaper'...

This happens daily to you in all forms of items you purchase. Businesses are always looking to be efficient and increase profit. The thing is CBF is nerd central for cricket so you hone in on this.

If you think you can get the same bat or quality elsewhere then you should exercise your right to do so. Think having a go at Phantom and Pryzm is unfair. Now on the hand if you are pointing it out to inform CBF members that they can get a bargain elsewhere...I think that is fair.

Just my 2 pence worth.
You're absolutely right. And tbf im not having a go at Pryzm. As pointed out by Matt above, Pryzm still do UK manufactured ones and the indian mades are significantly cheaper. More importantly they're forward about it. Phantom however have been riding the "made locally at Sussex" wagon to get their credentials up so i am absolutely having a go at them. They aren't that well known to justify becoming a sticker brand that source from india and stick to those ridiculous prices.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: prim0pyr0 on January 25, 2020, 12:48:31 PM
Well spotted, these MSD Luxe bats are indeed Indian made (and some Instinct bats in the sale) - however I can confirm that our main range of bats will be made by our usual batmaker (I'm sure most know who that is) in the UK. We had a sample order of bats in from a very well known Indian bat maker to see what the quality is like - and they are really good. One of the Worcestershire pros who we've just agreed to sponsor is currently using a couple of the Indian made Instinct shape bats and I've had really good feedback from him.
RNS? Their grips are like that
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Red Ink Cricket on January 25, 2020, 12:54:11 PM
How many UK batmakers are there making for  'other brands' - on a reasonably large scale, I mean?

I make for a couple of other brands and am happy to do so. I wonít let on who though.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on January 25, 2020, 01:15:01 PM
I make for a couple of other brands and am happy to do so. I wonít let on who though.

I'll recognise your garage if it makes an appearance on the Newbery website!
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: LEACHY48 on January 25, 2020, 03:43:29 PM
I would respectfully have to disagree. With the exception of those ridiculous sharpie bats, it is fairly easy to source indian made bats at a fraction of the price (atleast for me as i stay in the UAE, have indian friends who visit home often and not much taxes involved). Take RS for example. If the rumor is true and they are infact manufacturing for phantom, i know the owner of RS and their top of the range english willow bats can be purchased for approximately 200 quid (in whatever profile and weight i want on the cleft of my choice).

You clearly don't know the price of the UK made bats. You're not including import duties or shipping, and rs at 200 quid are actually more expensive than most. They used to be cheaper. Not anymore.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on January 25, 2020, 03:43:41 PM
I would respectfully have to disagree. With the exception of those ridiculous sharpie bats, it is fairly easy to source indian made bats at a fraction of the price (atleast for me as i stay in the UAE, have indian friends who visit home often and not much taxes involved). Take RS for example. If the rumor is true and they are infact manufacturing for phantom, i know the owner of RS and their top of the range english willow bats can be purchased for approximately 200 quid (in whatever profile and weight i want on the cleft of my choice).

So you don't have to pay import duty or shipping to the UK?
Seems a fair comparison...
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Red Ink Cricket on January 25, 2020, 04:31:21 PM
I'll recognise your garage if it makes an appearance on the Newbery website!

I donít make for newbery at present. Not sure they are on the forum, but if they are and they need some bats, drop me a message!
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on January 25, 2020, 05:30:19 PM
It was said that they had lost Paul Aldred. I'd have liked to have read more speculation as to what mighr have happened. Alas, it was not forthcoming.

I'm sure you'd be a more than adequate replacement, John. Although, from what people say, their ideas about pressing might be difficult to work with?

Their bats looked very Huntsy when I visited Hove last season.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: gpun22 on January 25, 2020, 07:30:05 PM
Recently went to phantom and purchased a bat for myself for the season (first phantom bat).
 Yes, the guy did tell me they don't source their bats from TK and are instead sourcing from India. As per him, the TK made bats have suffered in quality over  time although how much truth in that, god knows.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Red Ink Cricket on January 25, 2020, 07:33:21 PM
It was said that they had lost Paul Aldred. I'd have liked to have read more speculation as to what mighr have happened. Alas, it was not forthcoming.

I'm sure you'd be a more than adequate replacement, John. Although, from what people say, their ideas about pressing might be difficult to work with?

Their bats looked very Huntsy when I visited Hove last season.

Yeah their pressing ideas are a little strange but they have the adjustable warranty to cover themselves. I think there is a reason they are the only ones that offer pressing options like that but thatís just my view

I think they were made by hunts for a period, not sure if they still are using them for some but they have 2-3 makers now I think
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Mel Jessop on January 25, 2020, 07:51:13 PM
Yeah their pressing ideas are a little strange but they have the adjustable warranty to cover themselves. I think there is a reason they are the only ones that offer pressing options like that but thatís just my view

I think they were made by hunts for a period, not sure if they still are using them for some but they have 2-3 makers now I think

Hunts were making some Newbury bats last season for sure, I saw them on a visit.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: bigblue365 on January 25, 2020, 08:06:51 PM
Who makes high end pryzm bats?
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on January 25, 2020, 09:22:33 PM
Who makes high end pryzm bats?

TK, surely?
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Yorkershire on January 25, 2020, 10:25:01 PM
It's as if TK make for every sticker brand?

Is there anyone else who does  :o ;)
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: KW9221 on January 25, 2020, 10:35:14 PM
Recently went to phantom and purchased a bat for myself for the season (first phantom bat).
 Yes, the guy did tell me they don't source their bats from TK and are instead sourcing from India. As per him, the TK made bats have suffered in quality over  time although how much truth in that, god knows.
I have few old TK bats from 2012-2013 and they are still quality bats. I donít trust anything he says. He just tried to maximize his profit and there is nothing with it but you shouldnít use the TK bats quality as an excuse.
Title: Re: Phantom and Pryzm moved production from UK?
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on January 26, 2020, 12:14:45 PM
It's as if TK make for every sticker brand?

Is there anyone else who does  :o ;)

I don't think Neon use TK.