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Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: SOULMAN1012 on January 31, 2020, 07:16:12 PM

Title: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on January 31, 2020, 07:16:12 PM
Just seen Millichamp & Hall have really outdone them selves. Here you go everyone at a bargain price as a one off £500. This has just sent M&H to my most hated brand ever and the guy on the FB videos must be the best salesmen in the history of sales if he can convince anyone as he says ďthe best of the best pro willowĒ

(https://i.postimg.cc/65MCWxK9/FFC4-D834-BCE4-4-C08-81-A4-D26-E2-C0108-CE.png) (https://postimg.cc/D8bS6DmD)
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: AJ2014 on January 31, 2020, 07:31:02 PM
£500? no way man! maybe the half of it
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: AlanB on January 31, 2020, 07:43:50 PM
Thought exactly the same when all was revealed. Very ordinary looking bat indeed, which shouldn't be the case given the video hype. M&H letting themselves down badly there.
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: Yorkershire on January 31, 2020, 07:49:36 PM
For me, the Hitman bat that someone posted a while back was the most over priced bat. This is nearly as bad but not as horrible.
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on January 31, 2020, 07:50:21 PM
Why is it a G3/4?
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: ppccopener on January 31, 2020, 08:12:15 PM
Lots of topics on bat prices and I'm firmly in the camp that grade 2 bat pressed well are perfectly acceptable for us club players, we really don't need super finite graded  bats because the vast majority are not good enough to regularly find the middle like the pros do, better off spending money on practice or coaching.

Anyway....I'm not m and h's biggest fan which is a shame as I grew up just wanting one of their bats, and some of them are great, my team mates have them.

For this bat shown what is stopping it being a grade 2 bat? To my eye I see a 2, and we know grading is subjective...

Just for a bit of balance towards m and h...
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: AJ2014 on January 31, 2020, 08:29:00 PM
Lots of topics on bat prices and I'm firmly in the camp that grade 2 bat pressed well are perfectly acceptable for us club players, we really don't need super finite graded  bats because the vast majority are not good enough to regularly find the middle like the pros do, better off spending money on practice or coaching.

Anyway....I'm not m and h's biggest fan which is a shame as I grew up just wanting one of their bats, and some of them are great, my team mates have them.

For this bat shown what is stopping it being a grade 2 bat? To my eye I see a 2, and we know grading is subjective...

Just for a bit of balance towards m and h...
agree with all you said, as at one I wanted M&H as well when I once held a beautiful and very well balanced, off a youngster
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: SouthpawMark on January 31, 2020, 09:30:22 PM
Iíve still got a couple of M&H bats left from last season, and they are very much top grade, with performance as you would expect. That said, overall their grading is a little bit interesting. If you go down to their place in Taunton there are an awful lot of bats which are priced as G1, but really donít look like it. I guess they might play better than they look, but I wouldnít even bother picking up a G1 bat that looked like that, let alone give it a wallop with a mallet.

Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: LEACHY48 on January 31, 2020, 09:54:10 PM
Why is it a G3/4?

🙄🙄 Because its got 5 wavy grains and blemishes.
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: cricketbadger on January 31, 2020, 09:54:35 PM
Took a punt with their jan sale stuff, totalling 150 for pads gloves and a duffle which all in was 50% off rrp, was extremely disappointed with the quality. Duffle especially suppsoed to be £90 full price was piss poor, barey basic and what most other brands charge about 30 quid for

Then took longer than quoted to refund the money, and even tried to 'forget' I had sent the bag back as well as softs and tried to short change me with refund. Wont bother again
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: InternalTraining on January 31, 2020, 10:14:48 PM
I'd ask about the ping first.

If it's a rocket , then grains matter naught.
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on January 31, 2020, 10:24:11 PM
I'd ask about the ping first.

If it's a rocket , then grains matter naught.

Is anyone trying to flog a bat for 500 notes going to tell you it's a plank...
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: AJ2014 on January 31, 2020, 10:30:25 PM
I'd ask about the ping first.

If it's a rocket , then grains matter naught.
ping should be fine but it's price tag is too high, unless someone who only uses M&H bats, do not see people readily paying £500! for this one
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: InternalTraining on January 31, 2020, 10:48:13 PM
^ I am not sure you can persuade/dissuade people from paying (or not paying) what they want. Boils down to the individual really and what they value most. If the bat is right for them and they can afford it, they will pay and not bat an eyelash.

Bat makers are charging ridiculous prices because there is someone out there paying them. Basic economics.
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: Jimbo on January 31, 2020, 10:51:59 PM
For £500 I'd expect to be absolutely blown away by both the looks and the performance. Unless this bat is going to turn me into Virat Kohli then that's a ludicrous price tag.
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: InternalTraining on January 31, 2020, 11:13:33 PM
For £500 I'd expect to be absolutely blown away by both the looks and the performance. Unless this bat is going to turn me into Virat Kohli then that's a ludicrous price tag.


This was a good discussion, check it out if you haven't.

http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=47028.msg754971#msg754971 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=47028.msg754971#msg754971)
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: SD on February 01, 2020, 12:33:44 AM
It's 24 years since I bought my first SH bat.  That was a G3 but had more grains than I can accurately count.  No doubt in that time the standard required to be classed as a G1 by most bat makers has been downgraded whilst the cost of buying these bats has risen well above the rate of inflation. 

Of all the manufacturers, G&M is the one that stands out for me as grading fairly still. 
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on February 01, 2020, 07:24:39 AM
Why is it a G3/4?

Because thatís what it is according to he merchant from whom they get there willow.

(https://i.postimg.cc/QtnsXrsW/04501521-ACBB-4-AEA-BD9-E-92-D0-A6-D64-B4-E.png) (https://postimg.cc/yg92PtDV)
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: Buzz on February 01, 2020, 07:35:33 AM
Interesting that a butterfly stain is moved into g3 willow these days.
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on February 01, 2020, 07:42:59 AM
Interesting that a butterfly stain is moved into g3 willow these days.

Wrights actually state they put they top 2% of butterfly willow into G2 now.

Grading has certainly changed over the past few years but my view has always been you have G1, G2 etc I donít see how all of a sudden this Pro Grade or 1++ etc came about, except for some some brands now split the G1 into excellent looking G1 and standard G1. This example that I posted from M&H really gets my back up a bit like another brand that argues that it ďgrades on performanceĒ as I can only assume thatís why they are trying to charge £500 for it.  There is no grading on performance and like another brand that does even have grades itís just here is a model and the price is £Xx some look stunning and others far from it but all the same price
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: SurreySam on February 01, 2020, 08:05:02 AM
Am I looking at the same bat as everyone else?

I count 6 grains and whilst not being ruler straight, they run the length of the bat and not at an angle. Grading it as a G3/4 is rather harsh, G2 is probably about right.
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: AJ2014 on February 01, 2020, 08:08:27 AM
Question is still there, would you pay £500 for this day or not? 🙂
Will any of the cbf member pay this amount for this bat? My guess is a No
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: edge on February 01, 2020, 08:36:44 AM
Of course it's overpriced, it's a £500 cricket bat. It's not G3/4 though is it, it's pretty much textbook 2 if you want to go by the Wright's system. Looks a much cleaner piece of wood than that Keeley 'grade 1' someone posted recently, and they're £470rrp.

Quote from: JS Wright
Please note that these descriptions are for rough sawn willow clefts / blades and NOT finished bats.  Generally you will find less grains in finished bats as we saw the blades wider than the finished bat and therefore some grains are removed during processing.
A Grade 2 blade is also very good quality and normally a larger amount of red wood can be seen on the edge of a blade, this has no effect on the playing ability of the bat it is purely cosmetic. Again there will be at least 6 straight grains on the face of the blade with maybe some blemishes, pin knots or ďspeckĒ visible, we also put the top 2% of the excellent quality butterfly blades that we get into Grade 2.
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: SurreySam on February 01, 2020, 08:41:44 AM
Put it another way.

If you went down to East Sussex and asked one of the bat makers there to pull out the best playing cleft and ended up with that for 500. Would you be happy?
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on February 01, 2020, 08:50:09 AM
Am I looking at the same bat as everyone else?

I count 6 grains and whilst not being ruler straight, they run the length of the bat and not at an angle. Grading it as a G3/4 is rather harsh, G2 is probably about right.

I would say it falls much more into the G3 than G2 but either way itís not a top end piece of willow that should be £500.
(https://i.postimg.cc/52CwLwtX/B967496-F-D622-4498-A2-B3-CD01-E854-EE22.png) (https://postimg.cc/18ynZVwS)
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: SurreySam on February 01, 2020, 08:57:18 AM
I would say it falls much more into the G3 than G2 but either way itís not a top end piece of willow that should be £500.

At no point are they mentioning the grade of willow though. They are selling the bat based upon 'superb playing qualities'.
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on February 01, 2020, 09:59:07 AM
At no point are they mentioning the grade of willow though. They are selling the bat based upon 'superb playing qualities'.

I know mate and thatís what annoys me more. As I said the old graded on performance rubbish is just a load of b******* this is just my opinion at the end of the day but like another company I just donít understand why people would spend £500 or £400 on 4/5 grain bats that ping when you can get the same for £110
Here is an example that I would say is the same as the M&H but cost £108. This is 5/6 wavey grains? Specks and a water mark on the outside edge and as so is graded as a G5. However this pings as well as any £400/£500 bat

(https://i.postimg.cc/W3wR3FZK/33536055-1574-42-C3-B01-C-74-E56-D946-BE2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XGq11vQc)

Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: SurreySam on February 01, 2020, 11:14:56 AM
That's fine and I don't really disagree with you.  There will be people who have the time, patience and ability to wade through all the lower grade bats and pick out the odd hidden gem/performer.

Then there will also be people who either can't, don't have time to, or just enjoy the cachet in having the bat maker declare the bat as prestigious example; and will pay accordingly for it.  As a business, why not cater for them. Especially in todayís internet shopping era.

r.e your example - It's hard to say with the fibre sheet on it but to my eye the willow looks bleached?
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: csnew on February 01, 2020, 12:03:33 PM
For £500 Iíd expect grains like this

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7-Z4vTjTar/?hl=en (https://www.instagram.com/p/B7-Z4vTjTar/?hl=en)
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: JB on February 01, 2020, 01:00:42 PM
Iíve been refurbing a size 5 G1 M&H for one of the juniors. Would hate to guess the original cost, itís definitely not a grade one though, looks wise itĎa poor
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: AJ2014 on February 01, 2020, 03:42:36 PM
That's fine and I don't really disagree with you.  There will be people who have the time, patience and ability to wade through all the lower grade bats and pick out the odd hidden gem/performer.

Then there will also be people who either can't, don't have time to, or just enjoy the cachet in having the bat maker declare the bat as prestigious example; and will pay accordingly for it.  As a business, why not cater for them. Especially in todayís internet shopping era.

r.e your example - It's hard to say with the fibre sheet on it but to my eye the willow looks bleached?
l
Don't see any comparison with Kooks to M&H, sorry for that.
M&H is most likely hand made, better quality willow, I better care taken while pressing by M&H! I t's not only about grains, as I've with 6 grains which is really remarkable, least to say.
I agree with surrey Sam on this.
My only point is it's pricing, when most of us see 6 grains, we will turn away looking for more grains,but one's who are more experienced and financially better off will probably check them out 🙂
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: alexhilly1492 on February 01, 2020, 03:51:55 PM
l
Don't see any comparison with Kooks to M&H, sorry for that.
M&H is most likely hand made, better quality willow, I better care taken while pressing by M&H! I t's not only about grains, as I've with 6 grains which is really remarkable, least to say.
I agree with surrey Sam on this.
My only point is it's pricing, when most of us see 6 grains, we will turn away looking for more grains,but one's who are more experienced and financially better off will probably check them out 🙂

I wouldn't be so sure it's been preSSed by m&h or even made there if I were you
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: AJ2014 on February 01, 2020, 04:00:26 PM
I wouldn't be so sure it's been preSSed by m&h or even made there if I were you
Not sure if M&H have pressed it
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: Mfarank on February 01, 2020, 05:08:38 PM
M&H bats are made in india by FC Sondhi. Confirmed by my local retailer who stocks them. Quality controlled by M&H representatives regularly. Same with L&W. The new indian made ones are made at Sondhi and James regularly visits for QA/QC
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: ppccopener on February 01, 2020, 06:21:05 PM
M&H bats are made in india by FC Sondhi. Confirmed by my local retailer who stocks them. Quality controlled by M&H representatives regularly. Same with L&W. The new indian made ones are made at Sondhi and James regularly visits for QA/QC

Iím not sure that is totally correct...I donít know for sure but I understand actual making of the bats is UK and India-not just India

Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on February 01, 2020, 07:30:13 PM
l
Don't see any comparison with Kooks to M&H, sorry for that.
M&H is most likely hand made, better quality willow, I better care taken while pressing by M&H! I t's not only about grains, as I've with 6 grains which is really remarkable, least to say.
I agree with surrey Sam on this.
My only point is it's pricing, when most of us see 6 grains, we will turn away looking for more grains,but one's who are more experienced and financially better off will probably check them out 🙂

Kook are also hand made, in fact both are hand made just depends of you believe that M&H are U.K. or not but kook do not CNC make there bats. As for pressing Iv been to M&H when on holiday a couple of years ago and took in a T20ís at Taunton and I could not see a press there. As for willow I can assure you Kook will get far superior willow to probably anyone else as they are the worlds biggest cricket bat brand. So basically your point about M&H being superior to kook is arguably total rubbish. Except for the point on price M&H will pull your pants down a spank you for serious money for the privilege of having there stickers on your bat or so you can say you have a £500 bat. Nearly everyone else in the market wonít.
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: AJ2014 on February 01, 2020, 08:16:05 PM
No, I meant the kook which soulman was comparing to M&H,
Otherwise genuine grade 1 bat will performs as any other grade 1 bat, whoever produces bats,  but then all is about pressing.
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: t2ylo on February 01, 2020, 08:34:21 PM
Iíve never had a bad M&H and the chaps there really are very helpful with repairs & advice.
But as a lover of a bargain and a refurb I have not got one of the new Uber expensive ones

The cricket bat market is no different to the car market or the tech market - you pay your money and you choose your brand, Iím not sure my iPhone is worth a grand, or even the best phone and yet I still bought it on launch day!!!

You can not play a game in Somerset without seeing at least 1 M&H an innings and they all seem to perform and in middle sons county development squad all the youngsters are dripping in their gear

Iím not sure the typical CBF member is their market - but thank god for diversity because with lowest ever numbers of players (fact) and highest ever number of brands (guess) without a niche you wonít last long

Iím not sure exactly what happens in their workshop but this photo makes it pretty transparent to me...

(https://i.postimg.cc/VNrd8mGM/428-C222-D-EB75-4-BC6-BAAF-7-B576-C6-A74-A3.png) (https://postimg.cc/gwpYyFPk)
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: SurreySam on February 01, 2020, 08:54:09 PM
Looks like there's a cricket bat press in that picture. How often it's used is another topic.
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: Buzz on February 01, 2020, 10:35:41 PM
The thing about it is that I think it is misleading, regardless of price.
They are holding themselves out as making bats when in truth they are importing bats either from Sondhi or SS.

It is one thing to be honest and say I import bats and stick my stickers on. It is a different ball game to say you hand make the bats yourselves.
Title: Re: Could this be the most overpriced G3/G4 ever?
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on February 01, 2020, 10:49:47 PM
I guess at the end of the day there will be some that think M&H are great bats and donít really care about the how etc and then there are the others that find this kind of misleading advertisement as annoying or just plain wrong etc. I know for example if I was a Kember or Aldred or Matt Barton etc I would be very annoyed to be compared to ďRob the master bat makerĒ at M&H. I have certainly on my two visits to M&H in my life time ever seen a stack or clefts like I have seen at every other U.K. making brand and i canít find any pics or insight from them with anything regarding a raw cleft to finished bat process.

Would like to point out never said they were bad bats, just a bad company moral wise