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Equipment => Bats => Bat Making => Topic started by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 08:56:37 PM

Title: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 08:56:37 PM
Any questions and donations!!!!!
 
http://uk.movember.com/mospace/774848/ (http://uk.movember.com/mospace/774848/)
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Washington on November 22, 2010, 09:11:42 PM
Hi Andy,

Do you have a specific tool you prefer to do the shoulders? Im struggling to keep the shoulders even and was wondering if you had any tips?

Dan
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Six Sixes Cricket on November 22, 2010, 09:13:49 PM
Hi Andy,

we've had the 400 talisman, the 400 gn legends & the 1000 newbery. Will Saf be joining in?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: tim2000s on November 22, 2010, 10:11:40 PM
What do you consider to be the best bat you have made, why, and who was it for?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: tim2000s on November 22, 2010, 10:12:32 PM
Which is faster? An african swallow or a european swallow?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: tim2000s on November 22, 2010, 10:14:40 PM
If a cricket bat made 15 years ago had been kept in a temperature and moisture controlled environment, unused, would it perform as well as one made exactly the same way, yesterday (assuming that the willow is of the same quality)?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: jonpinson on November 22, 2010, 10:19:12 PM
If a cricket bat made 15 years ago had been kept in a temperature and moisture controlled environment, unused, would it perform as well as one made exactly the same way, yesterday (assuming that the willow is of the same quality)?

No, because a bat made 15 years ago would have been made on a wednesday (check for yourself), but a bat made yesterday would be an infamous sunday bat. It has been proven scientifically that a bat made on a sunday will never be as good as bats made during week days. Except tuesdays of course. We don't speak of tuesdays.
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 10:22:33 PM
Hi Andy,

Do you have a specific tool you prefer to do the shoulders? Im struggling to keep the shoulders even and was wondering if you had any tips?

Dan

Drawknife and a spoke shave - tips, umm practice.  Not a great answer but true
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 10:26:43 PM
Hi Andy,

we've had the 400 talisman, the 400 gn legends & the 1000 newbery. Will Saf be joining in?

hmmmmmm...  not sure why I'd join in..... I'm comfortable I offer the best I can for the prices they are being sold for
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 10:29:22 PM
What do you consider to be the best bat you have made, why, and who was it for?

Our ex-first team captain, who effectively got me started.... I'd make bats for him until my hands cramp up...... 2lb 12oz made it, scored 12, 98, 145 then 135 with it in 2007 ------- I was very happy :D
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 10:29:47 PM
Which is faster? An african swallow or a european swallow?

monty python love it
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 10:30:44 PM
If a cricket bat made 15 years ago had been kept in a temperature and moisture controlled environment, unused, would it perform as well as one made exactly the same way, yesterday (assuming that the willow is of the same quality)?

Depends who makes it, you get crap nowadays and you got crap 15 years ago
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: thedon on November 22, 2010, 10:38:22 PM
whats your advice on how to pick out a good bat?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: tim2000s on November 22, 2010, 10:56:36 PM
Depends who makes it, you get crap nowadays and you got crap 15 years ago
For the sake of argument, Tim Keeley made it 15 years ago and also yesterday, and they are both Mjolnirs.
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 10:59:13 PM
For the sake of argument, Tim Keeley made it 15 years ago and also yesterday, and they are both Mjolnirs.

I'd say 15 years ago as John Newbery was still fresh in the memory
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Washington on November 22, 2010, 11:00:47 PM
How do you stop wood 'peeling' when shaping the bat? Is it my fault? i.e wrong technique or not sharp enough tools?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Colesy on November 22, 2010, 11:02:31 PM
What's your favourite bat you've ever owned?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 11:05:28 PM
How do you stop wood 'peeling' when shaping the bat? Is it my fault? i.e wrong technique or not sharp enough tools?

You shape against the grain turn the bat around or yourself
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: tim2000s on November 22, 2010, 11:05:45 PM
If you could make a bat for anyone, who would you consider it to be the greatest honour to do this for?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 11:07:25 PM
What's your favourite bat you've ever owned?

I've got a beat up Julian Millichamp M&H original which I love, plus my "I'm Viv Richards" SS Jumbo
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: tim2000s on November 22, 2010, 11:10:35 PM
Wondered whether the SS Jumbo might make another appearance :)
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 11:11:07 PM
If you could make a bat for anyone, who would you consider it to be the greatest honour to do this for?

dead or alive?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 11:11:57 PM
Wondered whether the SS Jumbo might make another appearance :)

Not as a line from me, Surridge are still doing the retro I think though
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Washington on November 22, 2010, 11:12:51 PM
Would pick up improve if the ratio of willow on the shoulders and the middle are similar with less on toe area?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: tim2000s on November 22, 2010, 11:13:23 PM
dead or alive?
Dead or Alive.
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Cover_Drive on November 22, 2010, 11:17:00 PM
Why is pressing considered to be one of the toughest skill while making a bat? Why do soft pressed bats have shorter life span and good performance for a short period of time and vice versa.

In your eyes is Asian bats pressing different to English bats pressing? If so then why and which one is better?

Thanks a ton!!!!
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 11:17:33 PM
If you could make a bat for anyone, who would you consider it to be the greatest honour to do this for?

I love making bats for everyone, that's what I do and why I do it....

If I had a choice I wouldn't chose a cricketer, I would say 1st choice John Newbery and I'd be bricking it trust me
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 11:19:03 PM
Would pick up improve if the ratio of willow on the shoulders and the middle are similar with less on toe area?

nope there are all individual ,a handle could weigh more then you expect so every bat should be individually balanced
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 22, 2010, 11:26:03 PM
you
Why is pressing considered to be one of the toughest skill while making a bat? Why do soft pressed bats have shorter life span and good performance for a short period of time and vice versa.

In your eyes is Asian bats pressing different to English bats pressing? If so then why and which one is better?

Thanks a ton!!!!

Pressing is a skill because you need to understand what and why you a pressing a piece of willow in a certain way....
 
A soft press bat, in my opinion, is one of the biggest miss conceptions / myths about cricket bats out there.  There is a place for it but you shouldn't soft press a cleft because you think it will be better!!!!! That is when it won't last!
 
Asian pressing in certain aspects is the same as English pressing - you get some good ones and you get some bad ones...  The thing about some asian brands is they press for size or/and for bowing and that makes them worse
 

 
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Cover_Drive on November 22, 2010, 11:29:06 PM
you
Pressing is a skill because you need to understand what and why you a pressing a piece of willow in a certain way....
 
A soft press bat, in my opinion, is one of the biggest miss conceptions / myths about cricket bats out there.  There is a place for it but you shouldn't soft press a cleft because you think it will be better!!!!! That is when it won't last!
 
Asian pressing in certain aspects is that same as English pressing - you get some good ones and you get some bads ones...  The thing about some asian brands is they press for size or/and for bowing and that makes them worse

So which one would you say is the best in terms of performance and life?

Just to make myself clear Asian bats pressing is not (in some cases) because of the bow? Why exactly does bow make the pressing worse?

Once again thanks!
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Rik on November 23, 2010, 08:49:04 AM
Could you explain the choice of name 'San Andreas Fault'?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Buzz on November 23, 2010, 08:53:52 AM
It is to do with Andy's Playing ability - apparently there is, occasionally, a small gap between his bat and pad, which the ball has been known to sneak through - which his dear team mates called the San Andreas Fault - after the west coast of America fault line... very charitable of them!
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: ProWannabe88 on November 23, 2010, 08:59:01 AM
Buzz you never fail to Ammuse with your little anecdotes  :D
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 09:07:08 AM
So which one would you say is the best in terms of performance and life?

Just to make myself clear Asian bats pressing is not (in some cases) because of the bow? Why exactly does bow make the pressing worse?

Once again thanks!

It leaves soft spots if not correctly done ---- so for example some may have a soft toe [others on here can confirm or deny for real world examples]
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 09:09:48 AM
Could you explain the choice of name 'San Andreas Fault'?

Cheers!

Yep that is an easy one ---  My name is Andreas, my batting skills aren't great if you bowl wicket to wicket you'll find I can't pick up the ball and it will go straight through a fault in my batting *style*, therefore San Andreas Fault
 
Oh I see Buzz answered :D

Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 09:12:20 AM
Guys keeping this open for one more day I reckon - techie questions welcome as well

Don't forget, please try and donate towards Movemeber
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Rik on November 23, 2010, 09:13:18 AM
Wow! I never would've connected the dots on that one!
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: ProWannabe88 on November 23, 2010, 09:20:44 AM
I've raised plenty of pennies through work and stuff but no one seemed to donate online when I asked them  :( how have you got on SAF? I put a pic of mine on the MOVEMBER thread in the pavilion
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 09:22:13 AM
whats your advice on how to pick out a good bat?
Sorry missed this one!!!!

If you're in a shop - Tom from Mongoose wrote a great piece on this

Go find the most expensive bat in the shop from a retailer you repsect, then walk around picking out bats in your price range and below - then compare them with a mallet / ball against your datum bat.

If buying from an online, chose a retailer/bat manufacturer that you trust, will provide you a g1 / g2 etc bat and not just grab you something for the hell of selling it
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Washington on November 23, 2010, 09:53:21 AM
Hi Andy,

I assume when you first started off you worked from a part made cleft? At what stage did you go on to first handle them yourself then press them? Did you have the opportunity to press clefts at someone else's workshop or did you jump straight in the deep end?

Dan
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 10:10:27 AM
Hi Andy,

I assume when you first started off you worked from a part made cleft? At what stage did you go on to first handle them yourself then press them? Did you have the opportunity to press clefts at someone else's workshop or did you jump straight in the deep end?

Dan

Yes I did, I started buying from Bill and James at Fusion Cricket. James was always helpful on the phone with hints and tips for shaping.  Then clefts from Talisman

I rehandled a few old broken bats by hand and then after discussions with a joiner got a jig made up for a table saw.

Pressing is something you need to learn I've seen one for the best guys in the world pressing and had a chance to chat with him.  Chatting and doing is completely different though so it takes a bit of time, plus my press is a bit different so different prinicipals apply
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Washington on November 23, 2010, 10:46:47 AM
Yeah I read somewhere that your press is different. It fascinates me the concept of pressing as it looks so simple but in reality I guess is a skill that takes a while to master I would imagine? I take it you had your press made by a local engineering firm?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Perkins17 on November 23, 2010, 11:00:03 AM
What is your favourite tool for concaving ? and what part of bat making do find hardest ??
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 12:18:16 PM
Round bottom plane and sometimes a clifton convex spokeshave
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 02:26:52 PM
Yeah I read somewhere that your press is different. It fascinates me the concept of pressing as it looks so simple but in reality I guess is a skill that takes a while to master I would imagine? I take it you had your press made by a local engineering firm?

Yep it is different.  If you understand the willow and what it requires it isn't too bad but you can ruin some nice looking clefts on the press.  The press was made in a few places, the majority or the design work, analysis and [control systems] dynamics of the press was done with help from a few friends that still work in the Race car industry, the frame etc done locally
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: jonpinson on November 23, 2010, 02:39:19 PM
Are you proceeding with the new shape you mentioned a while ago?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: tim2000s on November 23, 2010, 02:41:49 PM
Yep it is different.  If you understand the willow and what it requires it isn't too bad but you can ruin some nice looking clefts on the press.  The press was made in a few places, the majority or the design work, analysis and [control systems] dynamics of the press was done with help from a few friends that still work in the Race car industry, the frame etc done locally
No wonder you're the one who hosts the "Ask the batmaker" sessions! Sounds almost as complex as building a race car, and we're only talking about pressing! Maybe we should call you "Dr Andy"?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Perkins17 on November 23, 2010, 02:45:02 PM
how many bats todate would you say you have made ?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 02:58:35 PM
Are you proceeding with the new shape you mentioned a while ago?

Not sure, Buzz is getting an interesting shape so might use that one.  Got a few in mind though but almost definately keep the Fabrica
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 03:02:51 PM
No wonder you're the one who hosts the "Ask the batmaker" sessions! Sounds almost as complex as building a race car, and we're only talking about pressing! Maybe we should call you "Dr Andy"?


There are a few phd research subjects that could be done on Cricket Bats....  If I ever have some spare time [well quite alot of it] then I do one.  I like the techie questions though makes me sound like a geek when I answer them :D

Any bat maker could run an  "Ask the Batmaker" session, it just so happens it is normally me.  This time looking for Movember Donations :D :D :D :D
 
http://uk.movember.com/mospace/774848/
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 03:06:05 PM
how many bats todate would you say you have made ?

Enough to keep a personal service and enough to have a 2 - 3 week waiting list.  Today none I've been messing about with you guys
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Perkins17 on November 23, 2010, 03:12:24 PM
did you learn to make bats yourself for did you learn it from another bat maker ?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Washington on November 23, 2010, 03:26:04 PM
Cheers for answering all those questions Andy, im just starting out making a few part mades and am really enjoying it but its challenging so its nice 2 hear from a batmaker who seems so passionate and open about stuff, as generally the podshaving community seems 2 be one that is shrouded in mystery and cards are kept close 2 chests! Understandable especially after what happened with Kieran?? who set up heritage cricket!
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 03:31:34 PM
did you learn to make bats yourself for did you learn it from another bat maker ?

I learnt myself with some help from bat makers --- I started off a bit like Gary @Reback, I think, making a few electric guitars and generally messing around with wood. 

A bit of background info - I've got a Honours Degree in Mechanical Engineering and specialised in Aerodynamics in my last year of Uni, then worked as a Race Engineer for a few seasons.  Engineering has always intrigued me, if I see something that interests me I need to understand how it works and why it works at a theoretical level as well as a pratical level. That is how my mind works sadly. 

When I started to play cricket, I played rugby most of my life, I got geekily involved in bats and why one was better then the other.  I then decided to put my money where my mouth was and make one, I then end up here!

Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 03:40:08 PM
Cheers for answering all those questions Andy, im just starting out making a few part mades and am really enjoying it but its challenging so its nice 2 hear from a batmaker who seems so passionate and open about stuff, as generally the podshaving community seems 2 be one that is shrouded in mystery and cards are kept close 2 chests! Understandable especially after what happened with Kieran?? who set up heritage cricket!


Nothing to hide you see stuff on videos etc and answering questions is fairly easy plus you keep a few things to yourself.  Yep not sure what happened to Kieran, I vaguely remember having a minor spate with him about some post or other 
 
http://uk.movember.com/mospace/774848/ (http://uk.movember.com/mospace/774848/)
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: skippy on November 23, 2010, 04:08:25 PM
how many bats todate would you say you have made ?
Enough to keep a personal service and enough to have a 2 - 3 week waiting list.  Today none I've been messing about with you guys

Andy I also want to know the answer to the question 2-3 wek waiting list means nothing, you may only make 1 bat every 1 week or something
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Washington on November 23, 2010, 04:08:58 PM
Yeah not heard from him since then! Ive seen on his website that he has lowered his prices from what he was initially asking for. So have you moved out of your garage now? Do you have 2 purpose built workshop now? I have a smallish outbuilding that I have converted into a basic workshop for the time being! Spent most of my spare time there over the last few weeks . . . So apart from the essential tools what is your most important workshop device? 
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Buzz on November 23, 2010, 04:16:58 PM
Today none I've been messing about with you guys

Shocking - you should be nose to the grindstone making my bat!! ;)  :o
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 04:27:52 PM
Andy I also want to know the answer to the question 2-3 wek waiting list means nothing, you may only make 1 bat every 1 week or something

You wont get a straight answer from me, unless you are the chap that processes my company returns that is, then you'll know
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 04:30:42 PM
Yeah not heard from him since then! Ive seen on his website that he has lowered his prices from what he was initially asking for. So have you moved out of your garage now? Do you have 2 purpose built workshop now? I have a smallish outbuilding that I have converted into a basic workshop for the time being! Spent most of my spare time there over the last few weeks . . . So apart from the essential tools what is your most important workshop device? 


not checked hope he is doing ok, it took me a while before I decided I was comfortable with the product and start selling

Yep have an external workshop which I share with a joiner and a new one almost sorted

Best tool in the workshop - the Radio, then my drawknife
 
edit: actually device the Jig for the handles
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Cover_Drive on November 23, 2010, 05:17:36 PM

It leaves soft spots if not correctly done ---- so for example some may have a soft toe [others on here can confirm or deny for real world examples]

Cheers.

Another questions;

Why do bats have bow? What are benefit of bow and does it affect the sweetspot length/position by any chance?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Monty Bodkin on November 23, 2010, 05:27:01 PM
Andy - perhaps you would explain MMI the centre of percussion and how they relate to the sweet spot on a bat
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: tim2000s on November 23, 2010, 05:27:55 PM
A bit of background info - I've got a Honours Degree in Mechanical Engineering

That'll explain the Monty Python recognition. I'm essentially a MechE too...
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: jonpinson on November 23, 2010, 07:01:26 PM
That'll explain the Monty Python recognition. I'm essentially a MechE too...

What are your prices for the two limited edition grades you do? Answer via pm if you prefer. I need to set some budgets.
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 09:49:29 PM
Cheers.

Another questions;

Why do bats have bow? What are benefit of bow and does it affect the sweetspot length/position by any chance?

The bow I'd imagine was originally there for aesthetics. The bow effects the balance of a bat and therefore the sweetspot and it position but only a techie one the Centre of percussion
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 09:53:24 PM
Andy - perhaps you would explain MMI the centre of percussion and how they relate to the sweet spot on a bat

Hi Monty great 1st post.....

The centre of percussion will shift based on balance, bat weight and swing speed etc, this will move the COP, as you probably know asking a question like that, higer or lower. The same way adding grips to a handle or shaping a bat in certain way
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 09:54:15 PM
What are your prices for the two limited edition grades you do? Answer via pm if you prefer. I need to set some budgets.

LE is currently 220 - Inaugural Willow is POA as I get about 3 pieces in a year
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Monty Bodkin on November 23, 2010, 10:03:31 PM
Thank you - as a follow up maybe you would explain the coefficient of restitution and how, if at all, you are able to make use of it in your pressing process?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: tim2000s on November 23, 2010, 10:13:30 PM
I think we did an entire thread on that previously?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 11:11:27 PM
Thank you - as a follow up maybe you would explain the coefficient of restitution and how, if at all, you are able to make use of it in your pressing process?

Coefficient of Restitution or Apparent Coefficient of restitution Monty? 
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: RoCo Da Pixie on November 23, 2010, 11:21:51 PM
Andy might of found his soul mate on this forum with monty
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Monty Bodkin on November 23, 2010, 11:31:34 PM
Interesting. I had not considered that aspect and shall ponder further. Clearly the bat hitting ball involves a collision somewhat different to dropping a ball on the bat or hitting a bat with a mallet.
So how might that be worked into how you determine the optimum press?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: jonpinson on November 23, 2010, 11:35:51 PM
I think Andy has despaired of our ignorance and has created another account so he can talk these things over with someone who understands :D
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 23, 2010, 11:38:48 PM
Andy might of found his soul mate on this forum with monty

Well if I'm honest to ask a question about Mass Moment of Interia [MMI] and Centre or Precussion is quite a clever question but you need to understand they are related as one, MMI, effects the other, otherwise you wouldn't put the 2 together.  It wasn't just a wild guess or lucky question!

Saying that, then to ask a question about CoR [or ACoR] and pressing after a question like that is a bit stupid, as the answer is simple because pressing is related to rebound. So if you quote coefficient of restitution you should know this, therefore making the question like I said a bit stupid


EDIT: Monty may I was being a bit harsh here it isn't a stupid question I missed the bit about "If at all" so I appologise

Please combine this answer with the answer to your second question re: Optimum pressing
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Cover_Drive on November 23, 2010, 11:44:46 PM
The bow I'd imagine was originally there for aesthetics. The bow effects the balance of a bat and therefore the sweetspot and it position but only a techie one the Centre of percussion
Thank You :)
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: Colesy on November 23, 2010, 11:46:27 PM
Small edges, no concaving
Big edges, lots of concaving
Small edges, lots of concaving
Big edges, no concaving.

Which is best for a large middle or 'sweet spot'?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 24, 2010, 12:13:31 AM
Interesting. I had not considered that aspect and shall ponder further. Clearly the bat hitting ball involves a collision somewhat different to dropping a ball on the bat or hitting a bat with a mallet.
So how might that be worked into how you determine the optimum press?

Batted ball speed = q x Velocity of ball + (1 + q)Velocity of bat
Where q is calculated as follow q is the Bouncabilty of a bat or Apparent Coefficient of Restitution [ACoR]

Pressing is related to the willow its natural attributes, grains, volume etc and therefore the pressing pressure required, each piece of willow should be treated differently because of this.  The pressing changes the elasiticity of the willow and therefore the rebound effects the willow.

As you can see ACoR being the initial multiplier this will have the biggest effect on batted ball speed .  If ACoR remained constant and the ball velocity increased and the bat speed increased you wouldn't have the same increase as you would if you raised  the ACoR.

There are ways of getting a really good pressing but it isn't really related to the CoR.  CoR or ACoR is a product of good pressing so is batted ball speed. 

So to answer your question, nothing that you mention determines the optimum pressing
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 24, 2010, 09:25:26 AM
Small edges, no concaving
Big edges, lots of concaving
Small edges, lots of concaving
Big edges, no concaving.

Which is best for a large middle or 'sweet spot'?

In basic terms whichever of those options has the largest amount of wood in the middle for the weight.  It isn't that straight cut but if everything else was equal that would the identifier of middle size.
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 24, 2010, 09:30:06 AM
Hi Admins / Mods can someone lock this thread around Midday today please

Few more hours for some question and maybe Monty will be back :D
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: tim2000s on November 24, 2010, 10:11:12 AM
Given that MMI is an integral function that has mass density of a body at a point along it's length, is the coincidence of the highest mass density with the centre of percussion the norm or can you create an offset bat where these are distributed, such as to generate a lighter pick up for example, with the highest mass density occurring at a point above the centre of percussion?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: mdl_1979 on November 24, 2010, 10:12:42 AM
What's the heaviest bat you have ever made? 
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: snafu on November 24, 2010, 10:38:06 AM
Is there any other wood that comes close to willow in terms of weight and density that a bat could be made from that would perfom simularly
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 24, 2010, 10:52:05 AM
A quick plug
 
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(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2944/erusside101medium.jpg)

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Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 24, 2010, 11:28:39 AM
Given that MMI is an integral function that has mass density of a body at a point along it's length, is the coincidence of the highest mass density with the centre of percussion the norm or can you create an offset bat where these are distributed, such as to generate a lighter pick up for example, with the highest mass density occurring at a point above the centre of percussion?



In short yes, it made for a strange looking bat but this was just a prototype and can be worked on to make it loads better.  I just got to busy to complete the profile shape

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9228/52497182.jpg)
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 24, 2010, 11:30:52 AM
What's the heaviest bat you have ever made? 

3lb 2oz I think
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 24, 2010, 11:36:47 AM
Is there any other wood that comes close to willow in terms of weight and density that a bat could be made from that would perfom simularly

Nope unless you try just Salix Alba like the old days...  You can't get the strength or elasticity required from other wood based on the shapes you will need e.g Oak weighs too much
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: tim2000s on November 24, 2010, 11:41:17 AM

In short yes, it made for a strange looking bat but this was just a prototype and can be worked on to make it loads better.  I just got to busy to complete the profile shape

([url]http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9228/52497182.jpg[/url])

It does make a funny profile doesn't it? I  guess that you can do the same in reverse too...
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: peplow on November 24, 2010, 11:47:45 AM
Whats the lightest (full size) bat you've ever made? (might as well after asking the heaviest!) after grips, stickers etc..
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: tim2000s on November 24, 2010, 11:51:30 AM
When starting to design a bat profile do you technically decide upon the MMI, mass Density along length and CoP position that you want and then produce technical designs?
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 24, 2010, 11:58:26 AM
Whats the lightest (full size) bat you've ever made? (might as well after asking the heaviest!) after grips, stickers etc..

2lb 6oz it was for a 1st Class Cricketer but didn't have my stickers on it  :o
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: peplow on November 24, 2010, 12:00:26 PM
Do you want me to lock? or happy to let it go on a little longer...
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 24, 2010, 12:09:40 PM
When starting to design a bat profile do you technically decide upon the MMI, mass Density along length and CoP position that you want and then produce technical designs?

Yes I need to understand why the bat will perform and how it will perform base on the profile
Title: Re: Movember --- Ask the bat maker
Post by: SAF Bats on November 24, 2010, 12:11:11 PM
Yep lock please Peplow

Thanks Guys

http://uk.movember.com/mospace/774848/