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General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: alexhilly1492 on March 14, 2018, 02:13:02 PM

Title: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 14, 2018, 02:13:02 PM
As the white ball series is over and discussion moves to the test series thought we could do with a dedicated topic

Iíll start:

Drop Vince Malan to 3 stokes in at 5

Side looks more balanced and better

Drop broad for trj

No need for much else to change other than form!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Calzehbhoy on March 14, 2018, 03:14:57 PM
Think the calls to drop Broad may be a little premature. Judging by the videos online he's been working hard to amend/resolve his action problems to assist his bowling. I think this series will be a key one for him though.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 14, 2018, 03:41:15 PM
Think the calls to drop Broad may be a little premature. Judging by the videos online he's been working hard to amend/resolve his action problems to assist his bowling. I think this series will be a key one for him though.

Agreed they maybe a little early and glad to see he has been working on those problems......... however if he carries on throwing pies down like in the current warm up game then it won't be long.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 14, 2018, 03:58:11 PM
Mark my words - I know my shizzle - and his goose is cooked.

Time for a thrusting young cub to kick the old lion into the undergrowth of retirement
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Buzz on March 14, 2018, 04:09:03 PM
As the topic is moved, here is the team for the first test.
Brucie, you are wrong about Broad.

Why are people not picking Broad? Are 400 test wickets not enough?

The team for the first test will be

Cook
Stoneman
Vince (not my pick, will be interesting to see if Malan gets a go at 3 in the warm up games)
Root
Malan (I would have him at 3 and bairstow at 5
Stokes
Bairstow (I would have Livingston at 7 for now)
Moeen
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: jonny77 on March 14, 2018, 04:14:09 PM
Here's mine, same but Wood in for Woakes if fit as he will hopefully offer something different. With Stokes back we've enough bowling to use Wood in short sharp bursts and don't need Woakes to shore up the lower order. I'd also bat Malan at 3 and Vince at 5.

Cook
Stoneman
Malan
Root
Vince
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Wood
Broad
Anderson
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 14, 2018, 04:22:59 PM
As i said on the other thread -

I think the team will be

Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Mo
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

However i wouldn't of even had Vince on the plane! I would have Malan at 3, Bairstow at 5 and bring in Livingstone at 7 to blood him in there.

I keep Broad in for now because class is permanent - but i think his time is definately running out as he is getting slower and losing the ability to move the ball away from the RHB.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 14, 2018, 04:39:53 PM
If everyone is fit this would be my line up for the first test

Cook
Stoneman
Malan
Root
Livingstone
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

I think Vince has had enough chances and needs to be dropped. Push Malan to 3 and debut Livingstone at 5.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: 19reading87 on March 14, 2018, 05:07:09 PM
Here's mine, same but Wood in for Woakes if fit as he will hopefully offer something different. With Stokes back we've enough bowling to use Wood in short sharp bursts and don't need Woakes to shore up the lower order. I'd also bat Malan at 3 and Vince at 5.

Cook
Stoneman
Malan
Root
Vince
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Wood
Broad
Anderson

Woakes is the next James Anderson and will take the new ball once Jimmy retires for at least the next 5 years. If heís fit, heíll be playing
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 14, 2018, 05:51:15 PM
Woakes is the next James Anderson and will take the new ball once Jimmy retires for at least the next 5 years. If heís fit, heíll be playing

I think there is a good chance Woakes will take the new ball with Jimmy in the 1st Test. Don't forget it is Pink ball under lights.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Tailendfielder on March 14, 2018, 06:30:36 PM
 Wood, will he ever be the answer? Im not sure his good enough. On that basis Broad keeps his place, but i think. Iíd drop Broad before Woakes now.

Dont know enough about Livingstone to comment on the batters.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on March 14, 2018, 06:31:14 PM
As mentioned in the ODI thread I'll be at both tests. Anyone for a beer?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 14, 2018, 06:46:25 PM
Broad stays for me but Woakes gets the new ball. Anyone who thinks the team won't be as Buzz posted is kidding themselves!

I'd consider dropping Vince and bring in either Foakes or Livingstone personally, but not 100% convinced now is actually the best time. Would rather be picking Livingstone on the back of good early season CC form and confidence than a Lions tour he didn't get on too well in.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 14, 2018, 07:30:25 PM
Broad stays for me but Woakes gets the new ball. Anyone who thinks the team won't be as Buzz posted is kidding themselves!

I'd consider dropping Vince and bring in either Foakes or Livingstone personally, but not 100% convinced now is actually the best time. Would rather be picking Livingstone on the back of good early season CC form and confidence than a Lions tour he didn't get on too well in.

It's a short test series so whoever gets in batting wise-Vince- will have a couple of tests to prove he is or is not the right man for the job.

Personally I don't think he is technically sound enough to bat 3 whereas Malan is better and more importantly seems to have the temperament.i hope Vince proves me wrong but I've seen nothing so far to say we won't continue to get fantastic 40 s and get out which is no good to man nor beast.

Blame Bayliff and his one day mentality for that.

I'm absolutely baffled why people on this forum continue to pick Wood over 5 days, yes he is quick, yes he is a good bowler....he will just not last in test match cricket.his body won't withstand the hard yards needed for 5 days

Love Mark wood and hope he plays a big part in our one day WC, but not tests.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 14, 2018, 07:50:03 PM
Yep given that Vince has toured then he's going to play, would guess he's got these two tests to try and get his name in the team for the summer. Realistically a batsman isn't getting dropped in a two test tour. Unless Vince scores bucketloads in the two tests then I wouldn't be surprised to see Malan batting 3 for Middlesex early season.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: jonny77 on March 14, 2018, 08:20:58 PM
My theory with Wood is he gives us something different. Our attack was so one paced in Oz it was frightening. I appreciate the injury concerns but with Stokes back he can bowl short sharp spells when needed and not be over used. Before his injury issues he looked great, so hoping he could get back to that.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 14, 2018, 08:30:31 PM
My theory with Wood is he gives us something different. Our attack was so one paced in Oz it was frightening. I appreciate the injury concerns but with Stokes back he can bowl short sharp spells when needed and not be over used. Before his injury issues he looked great, so hoping he could get back to that.

Wood hasnít bowled quick on any of the games heís played so far.. what exactly is someone barely quicker than what we have, far less accurate and injury prone going to do ?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: jonny77 on March 14, 2018, 08:35:22 PM
Take your point but as I said I'm hoping he can get back to where he was pre-injury and I'd be willing to give him a chance to do it that was all. Just my opinion, but then I'm all for a wildcard. Which shows with me sticking with Vince at 5!  :D
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 14, 2018, 08:54:00 PM
There's a hell of a lot us us hoping Wood might make a difference to our attack but there's hope and just the reality.

The injuries he has had to the ankle just make him injury prone, reminds me very much of Simon Jones...look at the strain in his action as opposed to a Woakes or Anderson.

He has,at times, bowled quick, I just hope he can make it thru to the WC next year myself.

As for variety in the bowling attack, we seem to be lacking in left armers, maybe that is what e need.

Willey...won't get picked, Reece topley I think is long term injured, there is this Carter guy at Sussex.

Who else? I can't think of anyone off the top of my head. the other Curran brother possibly?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 15, 2018, 03:46:05 AM
So, this has started well... 6 wickets down in the first session and 7 goes as I type! Livingstone leading the way at least, could he play himself into contention early in the tour?

On a side note, good to see NZ putting up a strong side for a tour game. Shame it's one of these farce bat for a day each affairs England seem to like these days.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on March 15, 2018, 06:55:30 AM


On a side note, good to see NZ putting up a strong side for a tour game. Shame it's one of these farce bat for a day each affairs England seem to like these days.

Was thinking the exact same thing. Canít remember the last time a host put out a strong warm up side
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 15, 2018, 07:00:41 AM
Vince 35 no batting at 9 ( I think!) and yes Livingstone done himself some good. with Stokes back thou he only gets in if Vince is dropped you would think....

He has a chance to impress thou.If Malan did bat 3 it might be easier for a new player to slot in at 5.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: enlightened on March 15, 2018, 07:18:37 AM
Now 281 for 13.
Are we trialling a new way to win the Ashes!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 15, 2018, 07:22:09 AM
Hmmm I fear we might struggle on this tour! Apart from Anderson who is still class,our attack is toothless! Ali is a good all round cricketer but we need a decent spinner!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 15, 2018, 07:40:00 AM
I think there is a very good argument that Ali will be dropped for this series.  If Stokes is unfit to bowl, we are left with either the idea of leaving out a batsman and batting Ali and Woakes at seven and eight, or of leaving Ali out and playing a four seamer attack.  I think the nature of pitches means we may well do the latter.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mr_Orange on March 15, 2018, 08:55:30 AM
And so it continues...

"A second England wicket falls, as @vincey14 plays a glorious stroke through the covers before being caught behind for 14."

(Test Match Special Twitter)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Buzz on March 15, 2018, 08:56:23 AM
I was thinking that dropping Moeen is a terrible plan, but then you have Root and Malan who can do some bowling so it isn't the worst idea. Plus if Livingstone plays he can bowl too. Although it is a difficult question as to who you go with Ali vs Livingstone if it is for the same spot. Eng would pick Moeen.

Our challenge remains we don't have enough 85+ bowlers.

And Vince shouldn't be in the squad
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Seniorplayer on March 15, 2018, 09:04:53 AM
Woakes is the next James Anderson and will take the new ball once Jimmy retires for at least the next 5 years. If heís fit, heíll be playing

If that happens its an indictment of how limited England are in the seamers department.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 15, 2018, 09:08:24 AM
If that happens its an indictment of how limited England are in the seamers department.

Here we go.......
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 15, 2018, 09:52:04 AM
I was thinking that dropping Moeen is a terrible plan, but then you have Root and Malan who can do some bowling so it isn't the worst idea. Plus if Livingstone plays he can bowl too. Although it is a difficult question as to who you go with Ali vs Livingstone if it is for the same spot. Eng would pick Moeen.

There won't be too much of an issue about pace in this series - pitches in NZ tend to favour bowlers who hit the seam consistently at around 80mph just fine, and we are okay in that department.

But if we don't have Stokes, we cannot rely on Ali as one of a four man attack, so we either drop a batsman to play five or drop Ali.  Based on his performance in the Ashes, I have no issue with him being dropped - indeed, I think its probably worth looking at other options, even if he will probabaly return to the side for the start of the UK summer.

So, that leaves either:

Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root, Malan, Stokes, Bairstow, Woakes, Overton, Broad, Anderson

Or, a better balanced side:

Cook, Stoneman, Malan, Root, Stokes, Bairstow, Livingstone, Woakes, Overton, Broad, Anderson
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Rob580 on March 15, 2018, 09:56:54 AM
Here's one for you:

Mark Wood isn't that quick.

Discuss.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 15, 2018, 10:01:49 AM
Mark Wood isn't that quick.

Discuss.

Ah well here it depends what you mean by quick.  If you mean Mark Wood bowls some seriously rapid deliveries, then yes he clearly does - the spell to Joe Root in the T20 semi a year back was the only time I've seen Nay Joe Lad done for pace and some of his early speel short balls are vicious.  If however you are asking can he maintain that pace over 10-20 overs a day, I'd have to say that there is not much evidence to support that theory, which is concerning because the bowler to whom he is most often compared, Simon Jones, could keep going at and around 90mph late in the day.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 15, 2018, 12:33:36 PM
A good description of the warm up game - explains about who batted twice etc.... also the fact that essentially we were bowled out for 195!! before finally finishing the whole day on 319 losing a total of 14 wickets.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43412928 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43412928)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 15, 2018, 08:08:46 PM
And so it continues...

"A second England wicket falls, as @vincey14 plays a glorious stroke through the covers before being caught behind for 14."

(Test Match Special Twitter)

Story of his test career. Gets in, looks a million dollars and then gets in the same fashion. I just hope for the second game starting tonight that they try Malan at 3 because Vince isn't the answers.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 15, 2018, 09:38:23 PM
If Vince is going to continue I can't see how he bats 3 either....he is a 5 all day long he just does not have it technically or the patience to bat long it seems...the opposite of a Trott for example

I was just mentally adding up the amount of players we have tried in the last couple of years to fill a problem spot since Trott and Bell, and KP of course retired, it's a helluva lot

Lyth
Jennings
Hameed
Carbery
Duckett (mine is a pint)
Ballance
Vince
Stoneman
Malan
Westley don't forget him

There are probably others, and there is Livingstone waiting maybe for a chance.

That's an awful lot of players to try in a fairly short space of time

Hameed and Malan are the two I've been most impressed by, more for temperament than anything else.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 15, 2018, 10:12:47 PM
Malan has temperament, technique and fortune. He'll have a good five years, methinks.

All of the others lack at least one - Ballance has everything you'd want save the technique, Lyth had it all and a knack of meeting good nuts to match. Many lack two or more, and Jennings used everything in his first knock.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 16, 2018, 07:16:30 AM
Mason crane out of tour with stress fracture - explains the 1 over

Leach called up
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 16, 2018, 07:18:38 AM
Crane out injured and leach called up....

A genuine spin bowler and Somerset fans on the forum get some recognition at last  :)

Is there room these days thou with multi dimensional tests players for an actual specialist spinner? Or does Ben stokes once again give us options of a non batsman in the final 11?

chances are leach won't play in reality as England have needed Mo's runs down at 8 in recent years
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: leatherseat on March 16, 2018, 10:39:21 AM
Mason crane out of tour with stress fracture - explains the 1 over

Leach called up

Leach has had a long wait for a call up, for various reasons. I am pleased to see success in the Championship rewarded. It keeps the incentive there for other players, too.
I feel very sorry for Crane after a winter that may have been a strange mix of excitement (Ashes tour) and frustration (limited playing opportunities). No doubt he will be well treated and hope he makes a speedy recovery. Very unusual injury for a spin bowler, I can't recall another spinner having a stress fracture of the lower back - perhaps others have a better memory...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: cricketbadger on March 16, 2018, 10:44:59 AM
Time to let Mo carry the drinks and play a specialist spinner in Leach
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 16, 2018, 11:13:25 AM
2nd Warm Up game - 1st day.....

Overton and Woakes in - Wood not playing
Stokes playing as a batter only - not even fielding

Woakes given the new ball - looks like it is going to stay that way as well
Mo and Joe take 3 wickets each
Broad takes 2 but has a few dropped by the sounds of things

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43427580 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43427580)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 16, 2018, 12:52:20 PM
Time to let Mo carry the drinks and play a specialist spinner in Leach

Unfortunately he'll be carrying the drinks for the tour. You must know by now, our management love players who can bat but the series is a big Moeen. He was poor in Australia.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 16, 2018, 02:35:57 PM
Are they really that confident that Leach won't be called in international cricket?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Buzz on March 16, 2018, 04:04:19 PM
Have you seen him bowl? His action is fine. When he got tested he only failed because the set the machine up wrong.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: jamesisapayne on March 16, 2018, 04:19:06 PM
Are they really that confident that Leach won't be called in international cricket?

I've watched him bowl loads at Taunton and the decision to sanction him in the first place was pathetic. Nothing wrong with his action whatsoever.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 16, 2018, 04:19:58 PM
Have you seen him bowl? His action is fine. When he got tested he only failed because the set the machine up wrong.

Yes, and I saw the game he was called in too.  I can see why he was called, lets put it that way.  Last season why I saw him he looked better, though a lesser bowler. 
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 16, 2018, 06:00:47 PM
Yes, and I saw the game he was called in too.  I can see why he was called, lets put it that way.  Last season why I saw him he looked better, though a lesser bowler.
Saw the game he was called in? He's not been called in a game..?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Kez on March 16, 2018, 06:18:36 PM
Have you seen him bowl? His action is fine. When he got tested he only failed because the set the machine up wrong.

Is that a fact? Fault in setting up of machine?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Buzz on March 16, 2018, 06:25:23 PM
Correct, Leach was not called in a game, but was tested at Loughborough where they mucked up the tests.
It is on cricinfo
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Sam on March 16, 2018, 06:49:57 PM
Correct, Leach was not called in a game, but was tested at Loughborough where they mucked up the tests.
It is on cricinfo

Got a link? Hadn't heard this and struggling to find a reference to it.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 16, 2018, 07:01:12 PM
Saw the game he was called in? He's not been called in a game..?

Sorry, called implies a Murali style arm out no ball, when Leach was reported (hence the test at Loughborough)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Buzz on March 16, 2018, 07:04:17 PM
No, the test at Loughborough wasn't referred from a match.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/04/19/somersets-peter-trego-hits-england-handling-team-mate-jack-leachs/amp/ (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/04/19/somersets-peter-trego-hits-england-handling-team-mate-jack-leachs/amp/)

Umpires saw nothing wrong with his action
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-4049460/amp/England-snubbed-Somerset-spinner-Jack-Leach-concerns-bowling-action.html (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-4049460/amp/England-snubbed-Somerset-spinner-Jack-Leach-concerns-bowling-action.html)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Alvaro on March 16, 2018, 07:09:44 PM
Thatís manure: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38376187 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38376187)

And Cricinfo
The ECB confirmed on Tuesday that the problem was raised during routine testing at the national academy in Loughborough following the end of the season in which Leach had taken 65 wickets at 21 in the County Championship. Leach has never been reported for a suspect action by the umpires.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 16, 2018, 07:46:56 PM
Thatís manure: [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38376187[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38376187[/url])

And Cricinfo
The ECB confirmed on Tuesday that the problem was raised during routine testing at the national academy in Loughborough following the end of the season in which Leach had taken 65 wickets at 21 in the County Championship. Leach has never been reported for a suspect action by the umpires.


Weird - the word at the ground was that he'd been reported at the Notts game.   
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: petehosk on March 16, 2018, 10:02:52 PM
If we are touring Sri Lanka in October, we may just need to start teting Leach before then?
From reports, he was one of the only positives from the Lions tour of WI.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 16, 2018, 10:35:14 PM
We are indeed touring Sri Lanka, we took two or three spinners on the last tour and at present we only actually have Moeen as a spin option fit and available, despite this 'number one spinner' stuff we have heard in the last couple of seasons Ali is dead right describing himself as a batsman who bowls.He is exactly that.

So we do need someone else to come thou, might have been too early for Crane, Dawson didn't work out so we def need to try someone fairly quick.

The England management said the were going to prioritise overseas tours after the Ashes defeat, let's see if they actually mean that

By playing a specialist spinner, like Panesar was......means we really want to win in India/pakistan or Sri Lanka. And Australia even.

In my view, now Stokes is back, the batsmen need to start scoring runs, they are not doing enough at the moment, and a spinner needs runs behind him
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Buzz on March 16, 2018, 11:20:07 PM
Separately, just watching the feed from NZ.

Vince has massive technical issues that should have been cleaned up well before now.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 17, 2018, 06:20:41 AM
Surely Vince goes and Malan moves up to 3?
I think they will go:

Cook
Stoneman
Malan
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Livingstone
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 17, 2018, 07:07:37 AM
Surely Vince goes and Malan moves up to 3?
I think they will go:

Cook
Stoneman
Malan
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Livingstone
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson


I really hope they do but I think Vince will start the 1st test at least otherwise what was the point in taking him!

Good to see Stoneman getting a few and Stokes back in whites.

Final scorecard below..

Cricket Scorecard - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/scorecard/ECKO42168 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/scorecard/ECKO42168)

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 17, 2018, 08:10:21 AM
Separately, just watching the feed from NZ.

Vince has massive technical issues that should have been cleaned up well before now.


So do a lot of modern players but technical coaching seems to have gone in favour of range hitting. Just the modern way and Vince is a product of it.. canít blame the lad really
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: northernboy1987 on March 17, 2018, 09:32:24 AM
Surely Vince goes and Malan moves up to 3?
I think they will go:

Cook
Stoneman
Malan
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Livingstone
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

Surely you wouldn't play Livingstone as a specialist bat down at 7?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 17, 2018, 10:05:13 AM
I think 7 is too low for Bairstow,they will play Ali I would have thought-and Anderson,Broad,Woakes,Stokes,Ali and a bit of Root/Malan is more than enough bowling.
For me,the attack is boring and one-dimensional as has been said already.

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Bairstow
Malan
Stokes
Woakes
Broad/Wood/Overton/Garton/Footitt/Mullally
Anderson
Leach
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 17, 2018, 10:20:07 AM
A lot of the journos talking about whether Stokes will be fit to bowl in the 1st Test. Then if he isn't does he play as a batter only? If so where in the line up? In for who? Etc...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 17, 2018, 01:48:34 PM
A lot of the journos talking about whether Stokes will be fit to bowl in the 1st Test. Then if he isn't does he play as a batter only? If so where in the line up? In for who? Etc...

If Stokes can't bowl then I'd play Wood instead of Vince. We can't go into a test match with only 3 fit seamers.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 17, 2018, 02:38:49 PM
Root to 3, Malan to 4, Stokes 5, JB 6, MO 7.

Then Woakes, Overton, Broad and Jimmy.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 17, 2018, 05:44:46 PM
Theyíll go for

Cook
Stoneman
Malan
Root
Stokes (batter only)
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Wood
Anderson

Thatís what I think the ECB will go with. Theyíll back Anderson, broad and woakes to bowl Williamson out
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 17, 2018, 07:49:41 PM
I donít get what this obsession with Wood is?

Heís not that good, heís not that quick and he is not a long term prospect!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 17, 2018, 08:07:39 PM
I donít get what this obsession with Wood is?

Heís not that good, heís not that quick and he is not a long term prospect!
I agree but team ECB love him.. like moeen
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 17, 2018, 09:02:03 PM
They want to stick their hairy ball-sacks on the block and pick a winning team:

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Stokes
Livingstone
Bairstow
Woakes
Overton
Anderson
Leach
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 17, 2018, 09:26:44 PM

I like everything about this side apart from Military medium Overton. Not many options though.Is T R-J far off being fit?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 17, 2018, 09:41:54 PM
I like everything about this side apart from Military medium Overton. Not many options though.Is T R-J far off being fit?

You want to trade military medium Overton for a military medium Roland p-Jones ??
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 17, 2018, 09:54:24 PM
Hmmm maybe not.Luckily I have you with me on the selection panel!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 17, 2018, 10:07:46 PM
Hmmm maybe not.Luckily I have you with me on the selection panel!

Nope.. just the ECB
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 17, 2018, 10:22:51 PM
You want to trade military medium Overton for a military medium Roland p-Jones ??

I suspect TRJ is a tad quicker.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 17, 2018, 10:44:33 PM
England try to plan a bit for the future all the time, it's just the way it works.bowling wise if, and I say if, Stuart broad is on the downslope TRJ would seem to be a straight replacement style wise.

Broad when he started his test career was actually a pretty good batsmen also but could never combine the two for long.

Roland Jones looks to me like he can hold a bat well enough.

For the first test I don't think this will happen but I would leave out Ali and play Leach, a specialist spinner for the first time since Panesar

I've discounted Kerrigan I don't know if he bats
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: SD on March 18, 2018, 11:21:11 AM
Kerrigan is  genuine tailender at first class level.

I can't recall another player whose career dropped off so alarmingly on the back of one single game.  I was at the Oval for his test debut and it was tough watching a guy who couldn't even complete his action let alone try to put spin on the ball but I wouldn't have guessed at the time that the experience would be so damaging that he would struggle to get a game back at Lancashire
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 18, 2018, 11:44:25 AM
This fellow Parkinson did well in the Lions ODIs. Does he have much 4 day pedigree?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 18, 2018, 12:22:19 PM
On Leach, we were all partially wrong - he's interviewed in the Telegraph today.  Never called in a game, but there was a genuine problem with his action. 

On Kerrigan...suspect he was a bit of a one season wonder in first class cricket - he did very well the year Lancashire won the title, but perhaps people failed to take into account the benefits he derived from playing nine games at Southport on a raging bunsen.  Once batsmen went up in class, or had seen him before, his lack of pace through the air made him quite easy to get after. 
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Johnny on March 18, 2018, 07:42:02 PM
Kegsy can't even get a game for Lancs at the mo. Spent most of last season playing dinky-doos and also had a loan spell at northants. He's gonna pro for my club side in the Northern League when available this coming season. His Lancs contact is up at the end of this year, and sounds like it's unlikely to be renewed (apparently he doesn't see eye to eye with Chapple, which has also contributed to his lack of playing time)

'One season wonder' is a bit harsh. There were definitely 2-3 good years string together, culminating in being selected for England. Unfortunately the way he crumbled in that one test seems to have cut some pretty deep psychological scars and I don't think he's been the same since.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 19, 2018, 01:18:12 PM
New Zealand have called up Guptill as cover for Taylor. I'm very surprised that they've gone with him considering how poor he's been in test cricket.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on March 19, 2018, 01:39:09 PM
Kerrigan choked on the big stage and should have perhaps have received more support. It seems a shame that he will be forever judged on those eight or so overs.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 19, 2018, 01:39:31 PM
Kegsy can't even get a game for Lancs at the mo. Spent most of last season playing dinky-doos and also had a loan spell at northants. He's gonna pro for my club side in the Northern League when available this coming season. His Lancs contact is up at the end of this year, and sounds like it's unlikely to be renewed (apparently he doesn't see eye to eye with Chapple, which has also contributed to his lack of playing time)

Interesting thought - if he is released, will he become the first player to move from Lancashire to Yorkshire, given that Rashid has left us looking for a main spinner?  Not getting on with Chapple will certainly endear him to Gale!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: SD on March 19, 2018, 02:27:06 PM
I can't see Yorkshire signing a lad who has played very little first class cricket over the last few seasons as their first choice spinner.  I was a little surprised when Lancs gave him a 2 year extension to his contract at the end of 2016
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 19, 2018, 03:30:22 PM
I can't see Yorkshire signing a lad who has played very little first class cricket over the last few seasons as their first choice spinner.  I was a little surprised when Lancs gave him a 2 year extension to his contract at the end of 2016

I fear they need to sign someone.  Rashid appears unlikely to go back on his white ball only decision, Rafiq is clearly a pure white ball specialist and Carver has not yet shown the pedigree to be our front line choice.  I suspect we'll start with five seamers at the beginning of the season, use Lyth and, if playing, Leaning to bowl a few overs where necessary.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on March 20, 2018, 02:13:56 AM
Guess the England player I kind of bumped into yesterday, ha.

(https://i.imgur.com/Ja1HN3Vr.jpg)

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 20, 2018, 10:28:30 AM
Are you stalking people?

Judging by the clarity of the picture I would say WG and Mrs Grace?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Rob580 on March 20, 2018, 10:44:47 AM
Darren Pattinson? Saj Mahmood? Chris Schofield? Phillip Schofield? Keith Lemon? Mr Blobby?

I may have lost my thread a bit there..
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 20, 2018, 10:51:53 AM
Blobbyblobbyblobbeeeeeeeeee!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 20, 2018, 11:58:42 AM
Blobbyblobbyblobbeeeeeeeeee!

why are we talking about Jimmy Ormond?  :D
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Alvaro on March 20, 2018, 12:24:07 PM
(https://s17.postimg.org/5y9ondcvj/ormond.png) (https://postimages.org/)

quality cricketer
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 20, 2018, 02:36:29 PM
We'll, he could teach Dopey Davey Warner a thing or two about how to respond to vulgar oiks... 😂
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Buzz on March 20, 2018, 06:06:05 PM
Nice article with Neil Wagner in the Standard today
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Alvaro on March 20, 2018, 06:35:30 PM
Brilliant binary bowler
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Rob580 on March 20, 2018, 06:50:50 PM
He is the pure definition of 'effective'
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 20, 2018, 07:36:08 PM
He does a job, and he does it well.  If you have five of those, your attack works most of the time, even if you don't have a world beater.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 20, 2018, 07:40:45 PM
He would be good enough to get in our team I think quite easily.hes decent and a different angle.

Regarding the test match I didn't know if anyone else has read this in the press but some journos are saying if Stokes can't bowl he will play as a batter only and Vince misses out....

I'm not sure England would do this but someone somewhere might have a tip that is what we are going to do.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 20, 2018, 08:24:02 PM
Is Stokes one of the best six of our top seven? Yes
Is Vince the weakest? Yes
Would NZ murder Ali as our fourth of four frontline bowlers? Yes

Simples...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on March 21, 2018, 06:53:46 AM
Are you stalking people?

Judging by the clarity of the picture I would say WG and Mrs Grace?

Haha. Mr Root and wife/child over on Waiheke Island.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 21, 2018, 08:40:45 AM
Haha. Mr Root and wife/child over on Waiheke Island.

Ahh yes - how on earth did I miss that?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 21, 2018, 02:02:58 PM
Looks like Stokes will be fit to bowl which is very good news. With that Vince is likely to keep his place at three.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 21, 2018, 03:11:01 PM
Much prefer that Stokes holds off the bowling until the second Test and plays as a pure batsman at 5. Pick Anderson, Woakes, Broad and Overton/Wood. Don't really want Stokes to pick up a more serious niggle
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 21, 2018, 03:12:08 PM
He would be good enough to get in our team I think quite easily.hes decent and a different angle.

Regarding the test match I didn't know if anyone else has read this in the press but some journos are saying if Stokes can't bowl he will play as a batter only and Vince misses out....

I'm not sure England would do this but someone somewhere might have a tip that is what we are going to do.
Wagner doesn't get into our side. In England we swing it around. The ball would look like a dogs dinner after Wagner keeps winging it in half way down.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Buzz on March 21, 2018, 03:16:48 PM
Wagner is the 6th bast bowler in the world right now and has got to 100 test wickets faster than any Kiwi bowler other than Hadley.
Yes he gets into the England team.

Also NZ are ranked 4th in the world to our 5th.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 21, 2018, 03:27:01 PM
Wagner is the 6th bast bowler in the world right now and has got to 100 test wickets faster than any Kiwi bowler other than Hadley.
Yes he gets into the England team.

Also NZ are ranked 4th in the world to our 5th.
Good for the Kiwis. Shame Wagner wasn't good enough for his own country
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 21, 2018, 03:30:26 PM
Good for the Kiwis. Shame Wagner wasn't good enough for his own country

You mean like kp, trott, prior, Strauss, geriant Jones, Curran just to name a few?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 21, 2018, 05:54:30 PM
You mean like kp, trott, prior, Strauss, geriant Jones, Curran just to name a few?

Jones and Curran in the same lost as kp, Trott, prior and Strauss.. lol
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 21, 2018, 08:18:11 PM
Jones and Curran in the same lost as kp, Trott, prior and Strauss.. lol

Can't believe noone mentioned Kieswetter, Dernbach, Dexter...

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 22, 2018, 12:37:41 AM
So, Vince goes and Stokes/Overton play as predicted. Can't believe we've got Stokes back playing and are still picking an extra bowler! Plenty riding on Moeen/Woakes returning to form. That said, Overton may well score more than Vince would have...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Sam on March 22, 2018, 12:41:37 AM
So, Vince goes and Stokes/Overton play as predicted. Can't believe we've got Stokes back playing and are still picking an extra bowler! Plenty riding on Moeen/Woakes returning to form. That said, Overton may well score more than Vince would have...

Sounds like they were initially expecting to pick Vince but Stokes bowling fitness is a doubt so they went with Overton.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 22, 2018, 01:18:05 AM
Sounds like they were initially expecting to pick Vince but Stokes bowling fitness is a doubt so they went with Overton.
Yeah that's right, even if Stokes can only bowl 5 overs a day I'd have still picked the extra bat though. Hope Overton does well though.

Cook's looked even more rubbish than normal, now gone. Did he always choke the handle this badly?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 22, 2018, 01:47:15 AM
Christ. Did think Root was tempting fate a little when he said 'we know we'll get to bat in daylight for at least two sessions' after being sent in...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Jlscarroll17 on March 22, 2018, 02:03:29 AM
Well this is hard to watch !! I think there's a few that need to watch the kitchen batting videos !!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 22, 2018, 02:11:50 AM
Having fun @rickjames ?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Jlscarroll17 on March 22, 2018, 02:12:29 AM
Wow 😳
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: shadowlight on March 22, 2018, 02:17:16 AM
What an outstanding catch from Williamson  :o
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on March 22, 2018, 02:17:46 AM
Absolute joy watching this!!!

33-9 class bowling
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on March 22, 2018, 02:25:35 AM
Frustrating last wicket partnership here. The recovered for englandís Lowest test score was so close
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Jlscarroll17 on March 22, 2018, 02:34:10 AM
Disgraceful !! They want to be ashamed of themselves !!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on March 22, 2018, 02:40:32 AM
58 all out - not a bad first session for the boys

Shame about Overton - 29 all out wouldíve been nice  :D
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: stamper on March 22, 2018, 02:46:44 AM
Just heading to bed having just watched England's innings in the latest t20. A below par score of 58 to be honest.

Seriously. Wtf? Playing back is the new playing forward. There were a couple of cracking deliveries but the rest were the fault of the batsmen.

And not only do individual batsmen give their wicket away, it makes the bowlers feel like world beaters so they then bowl even better at the lower order.

England back to the 1990's in test matches.

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 22, 2018, 06:00:58 AM
Heaven help us wtf happened!!!

Good call on the forum who predicted Overton would out score Vince !  :)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 22, 2018, 06:01:24 AM
What have I woken up to?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: skip1973 on March 22, 2018, 06:24:12 AM
Gee England have problems with those Kookaburra balls don't they.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 22, 2018, 06:51:02 AM
Oh dear,are we heading back to the 1990's?!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 22, 2018, 06:55:45 AM
Can't believe they dropped Vince- he was always bound to score his maiden ton...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Biggie Smalls on March 22, 2018, 07:26:50 AM
Loving being able to watch almost the full days play before switching over to oz vs s.a .
If eng lose this then the best they xan hope for is a drawn series 1-1....makes me wonder , when was the last time eng lost a test series to nz ?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Kulli on March 22, 2018, 07:54:30 AM
I've nothing against D/N tests, in fact I like that it's a bit forwards thinking, but are they still only able to get 10k people through the gates for an opening day of a series in comfortably the biggest city in the country, that's piss poor.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 22, 2018, 08:30:26 AM
I had the laptop setup for the coverage but fell asleep. Got up just after 3.30am and saw the Kiwis 8/0 from 8 overs. I assumed there must've been a delayed start. How wrong I was. What the hell happened?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 22, 2018, 08:31:51 AM
All that aside Kane Williamson is a little bit special
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 22, 2018, 08:34:02 AM
I have a question...

Instead of the slow head shaking is it time to really start paniking about the test side?

Root is not the right captain as I have posted many times, but we are going backwards under Bayliss as a test team

One dayers-great-we are doing well, but we are not improving, in fact if honest we are getting worse!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 22, 2018, 08:39:59 AM
Much rather Farbrace took over the Test side. Bayliss is a limited overs specialist as his CV indicates
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 22, 2018, 08:41:48 AM
Last 20 Tests Cook has been a liability again. Aside from 243 against an abject Windies side and 244* on a cement pitch in Melbourne the other 18 matches his average is 26. That's dreadful for a senior player
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: billyb on March 22, 2018, 08:46:48 AM
This was our side on the NZ tour back in 2012-13. We've lost great players, but we're definitely heading backwards.
That batting side was talented, yes- but it had a seriously strong spine to it, too. I don't see players putting a high price on their wicket in our team anymore.
Cook, Root, Broad and Anderson remain. Have we made advances in any of the other positions, really?

Cook
Compton
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Root
Prior
Broad
Finn
Anderson
Panesar
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Neon Cricket on March 22, 2018, 08:47:25 AM
Last 20 Tests Cook has been a liability again. Aside from 243 against an abject Windies side and 244* on a cement pitch in Melbourne the other 18 matches his average is 26. That's dreadful for a senior player

"Apart from the 2 double tons including an unbeaten 244* in the Ashes..."

Are we really doing this? Comical
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: procricket on March 22, 2018, 08:48:33 AM
It is it really is.

Ben Stokes playing as a batsman only is not great.  However good he is he a 1 in 5 player and you need a bit more at 5 or a top line batsman (yes he box office and yes a match winner but not as a batsman alone for me).

However you need a bit more from the guys in front of him to infact all of them our batting has been woeful for a long time. Mark Stoneman is not good enough top socre of 54 in 14 innings is not what your after.

Bairstow is wasted at 6 or 7.

Moeen Ali should not be playing

We do not have enough specalists because cricket has gone to the utility  players as dictated by one day cricket.

We also need to draft in a quick soon or speed one through the system.

As for the batting well where to start i would suggest not many of them can really say over the last dozen tests they have done enough.

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 22, 2018, 08:54:24 AM
"Apart from the 2 double tons including an unbeaten 244* in the Ashes..."

Are we really doing this? Comical
Feel free to state what he offered in the remaining 4 Ashes matches...he was Starc's bunny. Only time he scored runs was when the pitch was atrocious and Starc didn't play
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 22, 2018, 09:17:35 AM
Feel free to state what he offered in the remaining 4 Ashes matches...he was Starc's bunny. Only time he scored runs was when the pitch was atrocious and Starc didn't play

So what your saying is, cook is (No Swearing Please) when he doesnít score hundreds?

Thats the same for every batsman to ever play the game!

Yes he form has been up or down and itís all or nothing but you canít discount those runs he still made them and the matter of a road and no starc you can only play whatís in front of you!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 22, 2018, 09:25:31 AM
The thing that worries me the most is that the selection of the side in completely incorrect. I really don't get how they can think selecting that bowling attack if Stokes can't bowl will do well. Everyone simply bowls exactly the same! And Mo is bowling dreadful at the moment.

Forget about Overton's batting thats not what he's selected for.
Surely if Stokes can't bowl you have to pick Wood or even Leach. You have to offer something different as we saw in the ashes.

Yes the batting was completely woeful and it is concerning but that happens. The NZ batsman and especially Williamson went out there and were able to play it with their eyes shut.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 09:45:45 AM
Well

Umm

Yeah


Umm

Canít say itís not been coming with this group of batsmen sadly, although no one would have expected it to be so bad
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 09:46:38 AM
I've nothing against D/N tests, in fact I like that it's a bit forwards thinking, but are they still only able to get 10k people through the gates for an opening day of a series in comfortably the biggest city in the country, that's piss poor.

Probably more than they got for the loved white ball stuff
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 09:50:10 AM
This was our side on the NZ tour back in 2012-13. We've lost great players, but we're definitely heading backwards.
That batting side was talented, yes- but it had a seriously strong spine to it, too. I don't see players putting a high price on their wicket in our team anymore.
Cook, Root, Broad and Anderson remain. Have we made advances in any of the other positions, really?

Cook
Compton
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Root
Prior
Broad
Finn
Anderson
Panesar

You will struggle to produce players technically and mentally capable of playing long innings in hard situations in the modern era. Itís Boring to hear and many on here like to biff and so does most of this side. They simply canít cope with a moving ball and All want to play positive Cricket.. root plays one day cricket in tests which he is very good at but that means he just isnít suitable for top 3.the rest are just the same only less good.

We have no pace, no spinner but we are very good on green tops and keeping the run rate down.. itís almost like theyíve become good at drying up run rates and waiting for a batter to give it away.. aka white ball
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 09:51:03 AM
It is it really is.

Ben Stokes playing as a batsman only is not great.  However good he is he a 1 in 5 player and you need a bit more at 5 or a top line batsman (yes he box office and yes a match winner but not as a batsman alone for me).

However you need a bit more from the guys in front of him to infact all of them our batting has been woeful for a long time. Mark Stoneman is not good enough top socre of 54 in 14 innings is not what your after.

Bairstow is wasted at 6 or 7.

Moeen Ali should not be playing

We do not have enough specalists because cricket has gone to the utility  players as dictated by one day cricket.

We also need to draft in a quick soon or speed one through the system.

As for the batting well where to start i would suggest not many of them can really say over the last dozen tests they have done enough.
Listen to Dave..
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 09:52:01 AM
The thing that worries me the most is that the selection of the side in completely incorrect. I really don't get how they can think selecting that bowling attack if Stokes can't bowl will do well. Everyone simply bowls exactly the same! And Mo is bowling dreadful at the moment.

Forget about Overton's batting thats not what he's selected for.
Surely if Stokes can't bowl you have to pick Wood or even Leach. You have to offer something different as we saw in the ashes.

Yes the batting was completely woeful and it is concerning but that happens. The NZ batsman and especially Williamson went out there and were able to play it with their eyes shut.

You realise stokes is the same type of bowler again right ?? Heís not fast.....
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 22, 2018, 09:58:23 AM
Typically, they underestimated NZ and overestimated the effectiveness of their own side, and surely questions about Bayliss' test credentials must start to be asked?

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 10:02:32 AM
Typically, they underestimated NZ and overestimated the effectiveness of their own side, and surely questions about Bayliss' test credentials must start to be asked?

Would this set of players actually be capable of playing any differently under another coach ?? I donít disagree he should go but realistically, what can anyone else do with this group of players given how they play
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 22, 2018, 10:02:50 AM
The Moeen experiment can be shelved as well. Aside from a couple of flukey efforts against India and South Africa, his bowling is pants. We don't need a wild slogger at 7/8. Pick a proper spinner.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 22, 2018, 10:06:40 AM
This was our side on the NZ tour back in 2012-13. We've lost great players, but we're definitely heading backwards.
That batting side was talented, yes- but it had a seriously strong spine to it, too. I don't see players putting a high price on their wicket in our team anymore.
Cook, Root, Broad and Anderson remain. Have we made advances in any of the other positions, really?

Cook
Compton
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Root
Prior
Broad
Finn
Anderson
Panesar

Bairstow is an improvement on Prior. Otherwise, agreed.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 10:08:51 AM
The reality is we donít have suitable top 3 batsmen in the test team and we donít appear to have anyone in county Cricket. The one player who looked like he might have the mental and technical ability has an issue with low hands and so he short ball and was told he had to expand his shots.. consequently heís shot

Cook has gone but there isnít anyone better to replace him.

We have a load of players all suited to 5/6/7 in test cricket itís the bat.. he reality is our game from grass roots to the top just isnít geared to producing players capable of batting long and valuing their wicket. Itís set up for players to have go.

Bowling wise, when you only need to bowl tight and wait for a batter to get out (white ball), you lose the need for genuine pace or the other skills fast bowlers of the past had.. let alone spinner (rather than fire it in merchants )

It is what it is though and no coach or selector change will make the blind bit of difference. The problems are with the system, the coaches and only the ECB can do anything about that
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 10:09:37 AM
Bairstow is an improvement on Prior. Otherwise, agreed.

Is he ?? Iím nit sure Bairstow has shown enough to say that
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 22, 2018, 10:16:12 AM
Would this set of players actually be capable of playing any differently under another coach ?? I donít disagree he should go but realistically, what can anyone else do with this group of players given how they play

I think some have shown in the past (and present) that they can adapt to the test game -

Cook
Root
Malan

Stokes is an all rounder, a luxury in the Botham mould and will come off occasionally, and should not be considered as a top 5 batter

With Stokes and Bairstow in the side as 2 x genuine all rounders, the Ali role is redundant, pick a proper spinner.

If we haven't got a quick, then we can't pick one, so lets work with what we have I guess.

Personally, I think it might be time to take a bit of short term pain for long term gain and make a couple of tough decisions.

Is it time to accept that Stoneman and Vince won't make it?

Bairstow to 4 as a batter only, Malan at 5 and Stokes at 6 with a batting keeper such as Foakes at 7

Ali to return to white ball

Is Woakes a genuine test match wicket-taker?

Has Broad got much penetration left to offer?

Are we brave enough to blood the Lion-cubs?

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 22, 2018, 10:18:49 AM
I know Bairstow isn't keen but I think it's time that he ditches the gloves. We need Root and Bairstow at 3/4 as we are usually 2/3 down early and we struggle to recover
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 10:21:01 AM
I know Bairstow isn't keen but I think it's time that he ditches the gloves. We need Root and Bairstow at 3/4 as we are usually 2/3 down early and we struggle to recover

But neither are good vs the swinging ball!!! 4/5 sure but not top three..

Ffs jut watch root vs the moving ball, he doesnít do well. Itís almost regarded as a shame if someone says ĎIím not a top 3bat, bt I am a good 4/5/6.eaxh position requires subtle skill sets and each position is as important as the other. Put people in their best slots and stop trying to pigeon hole people
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 22, 2018, 10:26:04 AM
But neither are good vs the swinging ball!!! 4/5 sure but not top three..

Ffs jut watch root vs the moving ball, he doesnít do well. Itís almost regarded as a shame if someone says ĎIím not a top 3bat, bt I am a good 4/5/6.eaxh position requires subtle skill sets and each position is as important as the other. Put people in their best slots and stop trying to pigeon hole people
I think Root has the capacity to improve I mean the boy averages 53 in Tests. And if he bats 4, he comes in 15-2 all the time - well recently anyway
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 10:28:46 AM
I think Root has the capacity to improve I mean the boy averages 53 in Tests. And if he bats 4, he comes in 15-2 all the time - well recently anyway

We shall agree to disagree as I doubt we will change each otherís opinion.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 22, 2018, 10:33:21 AM
Is he ?? Iím nit sure Bairstow has shown enough to say that

I think he has, quite comfortably.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 22, 2018, 11:07:38 AM
You realise stokes is the same type of bowler again right ?? Heís not fast.....

Irrelevant. What I am saying is they are picking the side incorrectly if Stokes can't bowl.

If he can bowl then you pick a different side.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 11:12:50 AM
Irrelevant. What I am saying is they are picking the side incorrectly if Stokes can't bowl.

If he can bowl then you pick a different side.

So Stokes can bowl and replaces Overton.. youíve not really changed anything .... who,comes in for Overton who is a viable option ?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 22, 2018, 11:25:07 AM
So Stokes can bowl and replaces Overton.. youíve not really changed anything .... who,comes in for Overton who is a viable option ?

On the squad wood

Going forward someone like his brother a genuine quick
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 11:27:43 AM
On the squad wood

Going forward someone like his brother a genuine quick

Re-watch the white ball games. Wood wasnít near 90mph. He hasnít been for a year or two.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 22, 2018, 11:30:25 AM
Re-watch the white ball games. Wood wasnít near 90mph. He hasnít been for a year or two.

I know but he does bowl a heavier length itís soemthing different at least!

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: liscon12 on March 22, 2018, 11:32:09 AM
Re-watch the white ball games. Wood wasnít near 90mph. He hasnít been for a year or two.
Ever since the he picked up an injury after the 2015 Ashes he's never been super quick
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 22, 2018, 11:36:04 AM
Ever since the he picked up an injury after the 2015 Ashes he's never been super quick

Not sure he was ever express.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 22, 2018, 11:40:42 AM
Always tickles me when every man and their dog pipe up about how England are doomed because we haven't got any proper rapid bowlers... as we get taken to pieces by Trent Boult and Tim Southee.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 11:47:45 AM
Always tickles me when every man and their dog pipe up about how England are doomed because we haven't got any proper rapid bowlers... as we get taken to pieces by Trent Boult and Tim Southee.

Probably more down to our inept batting and nz werenít as bad..
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 22, 2018, 11:53:12 AM
Probably more down to our inept batting and nz werenít as bad..
Oh no denying that, I watched it all live and it was dreadful. We need to score more runs rather than any problems with our seamers, unfortunately Stoneman and Cook looked pretty poor throughout and it got worse from there.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Buzz on March 22, 2018, 01:15:47 PM
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1916325525045911&id=121538134524668

They just bowled a tremendous length. Which our bowlers with their back of a length obsession didn't do.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 22, 2018, 01:21:17 PM
They did indeed bowl very well they are a good side as we have said

England need the surgeons knife thou Buzz. If we say root is the captain(he shouldnít be)

How about going back a bit in thinking?

We play a specialist spinner
Bairstow as a batter only

It may focus the players a bit
I still say Ben Stokes has covered our ass in recent years

Leach and foakes in for me, mo Ali and Overton or broad out
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 01:34:14 PM
They wonít change things so itís all mute. Iíd change everything now and work on the theory of building up for the next away ashes. Any player who will be older than say 34 Iíd just Sack off and start again. We are 7th in the world with this mob, might as well clear out the players, clear out the coshcing.

Saldy, that wonít make much difference as the county game down to grass roots simply isnít geared to producing test players. Itís producing white ball players
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: procricket on March 22, 2018, 01:57:17 PM
I want to see the quickest bowler in county cricket play just for some shits and giggles

Shame he not playing in his county side but he got me out last year so I would go with Him.

He a left armer too

Money in the white ball game so that's what's going to happen.

I feel we are going backwards in world cricket though there some very Deepak Patel Istsy bitsy types who are playing top  cricket for my liking .
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 22, 2018, 02:40:21 PM
That was one very poor batting display and that me putting it kindly. The only person that comes away with a bit of credit is Overton, the rest were woeful.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mpt7 on March 22, 2018, 03:44:28 PM
It was a pretty pathetic morning of cricket from an English perspective

NZ were outstanding. England were awful. the two together meant we saw an awful total

The players take the responsibility. let's see a reaction in the next innings.

poor bowlers - they must be delighted to have such total to bowl at!

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 22, 2018, 04:17:03 PM
I still say Ben Stokes has covered our ass in recent years

The combination of Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes and to a lesser extent Broad (whose statistcal returns are much better than his flailing Phil Tufnell act would imply) have done so.

But I wonder if that is part of the problem.  The top five, Root apart (because his issues are more those of the over confidence of someone who knows he is world class), know they don't have to do it because there is always some other bugger to do so.  Even in the bowling, there is a sense that our attack sometimes bowls back of a length to dry up the runs knowing wickets'lll happen eventually.  Bairstow's role should be decided by whether the selectors have a youngster in need of batting seven in the side.

So, along the lines of what you said, we have to go back to specialisms.  Yes, Stokes at five/six balances our side by allowing us to play five bowlers, but the other four should be selected purely with the acquisition of 20 wickets in mind.  That means our best two opening bowlers, our best third seamer to provide variety (ie pace, sharp swing or a left arm angle) and our best spinner.

So a top seven of either:

Cook
An Opener (Stoneman if he makes runs now, if not, the guy who starts the CC season best)
Malan
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Livingstone

Or:
Cook
Opener
Malan
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes/Buttler

Then Anderson, Broad/Woakes, one of TRJ/Wood/Footitt/Garton/Willey/Jamie Overton/Mahmood and a spinner.  Leach seems to be looking a better pick with every game he is left out, but my personal choice would be his Somerset team mate Bess, who appears absolute quality and has the off spinners advantage of turning the ball away from the plethora of left handers in the international game.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: procricket on March 22, 2018, 04:36:10 PM
I do not see Malan as long term and I'm not sure why. Stoneman was given a go after a great few seasons but he not cutting it.

Bairstow needs a better return of 3 ton in his last 46 innings in test cricket to be considered a top order match winner. (yes i know he batted with the tail and yes he consistant but needs to score bigger runs).
I know he a much better player than that but needs to prove it with more 100's.

Bowling is a bit same old same old. I want to see Garton and Barber (wildcard hope he makes the breakthrough his pace deserves) and Mahmood more.

Tons

Stokes has 3 in last 36 Innings
Cook 4 in 48 innings
Root 4 in last 43 innings
Baristow 3 in 46 innings
Ali 3 in 42 innings
Malan 1 in 18 innings

Thats the issue i think not enough big scores for our gun players i mean real big innings yes they all average well well Stokes and Bairstow under 40 but with there added duties i guess it balances out.

edited Bairstow STATS
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Seniorplayer on March 22, 2018, 04:44:48 PM
It's  still possibble  forum favourite Woakes will bowl England to victory
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: procricket on March 22, 2018, 04:50:54 PM
Here a few to compare in same period

Mainly from 2016 till today

100 in tests selected few number followed by innings.

Kohli 9 in 40
Smith 9 in 42
Elgar 7 in 40
Williamson 5 in 26
De Kock 2 in 39
Pujara 7 in 40

That's a big issue with our batting anybody think our batting has been up to standard for the last couple of years only needs to see big scores win games we simply do not score enough of them.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 22, 2018, 04:57:27 PM
Bairstow needs a better return of 3 ton in his last 46 innings in test cricket to be considered a top order match winner. (yes i know he batted with the tail and yes he consistant but needs to score bigger runs).
I know he a much better player than that but needs to prove it with more 100's.

His figures are better than other keepers in world cricket, and do not account for the 99, or for the frequency with which he has been trapped with the tail.  He should bat six if he keeps, four/five if not, and others should fit around him. 
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: procricket on March 22, 2018, 04:58:30 PM
His figures are better than other keepers in world cricket, and do not account for the 99, or for the frequency with which he has been trapped with the tail.  He should bat six if he keeps, four/five if not, and others should fit around him.

 I agree pal it part of my point i agree keeping takes something away from him and he the best of the rest for me but some of the other stats it hard to think Dean Elgar has as many 100 in half the innings as Root and Cook.

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 04:59:13 PM
So we know the current lot donít cut it in tests or against the moving ball so someone puts buttlerís name down.. wtf

He is literally the definition of a white ball hitter with little technique vs anything other than up and down.

Jesus

Dave is again, making excellent points but then heís not eeyoore so maybe peoooe will listen more

You canít keep calling our players world class as they simply donít back it up when compared to the very few genuine players out there. When they come off great but as Dave points out.. itís infrequent which is actually sort of what you want from a test top six..
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: procricket on March 22, 2018, 05:00:46 PM
Dean Elgar 7 in 40 vs Root/Cook 8 in 91.

all i'm saying and how many of you would call Elgar world class.

In truth Amla has only 3 in 40...

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 05:01:45 PM
Dean Elgar 7 in 40 vs Root/Cook 8 in 91.

all i'm saying

And no one would consider him much cop.. gritty yes... a great player... not so much
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 22, 2018, 05:31:21 PM
No one proclaiming Dean Elgar as a great batsman. He plays within his limitations and it's worked pretty well for him. Decent average of 41 and 11 hundreds not actually to be sniffed at. He'd walk into our starting XI
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 05:44:05 PM
No one proclaiming Dean Elgar as a great batsman. He plays within his limitations and it's worked pretty well for him. Decent average of 41 and 11 hundreds not actually to be sniffed at. He'd walk into our starting XI

No one said he wouldnít fella.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Alvaro on March 22, 2018, 05:44:51 PM
English players have historically scored fewer hundreds per innings relative to other nations.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 22, 2018, 06:12:31 PM
Elgar would get into most test sides of the last 30 years. He knows what he can do, what he can't, and the value of his wicket (in blood)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Northern monkey on March 22, 2018, 07:06:32 PM
Just watched the highlights, all five minutes of Englandís batting

What a shower of sh&#e

Overton showed em how to bat, the rest should be docked their match fees for that embarrassment

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 22, 2018, 07:28:57 PM
Everyone is talking about the batting because it is the glaring bit of crap at the moment.

However.... genuine question for you.... if we had got 350-400 do you think we would win this anyways on this wicket?

A little stat for you... we have only taken 20 wickets in an away test 3 times in the last 4 away series (and we lost 2 of those games).
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: cricketbadger on March 22, 2018, 07:29:05 PM
Thought Elgar would get a mention in this thread. Been impressed with him this series, as has already mentioned he plays within his limits and grinds it out. Fantastic approach to the longer form of the game, noticeably doesn't play any white ball cricket for SA. All our white ball players failed to score today, and imo played extravegent shots especially in the situation they found themselves in
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Buzz on March 22, 2018, 08:28:53 PM
Everyone is talking about the batting because it is the glaring bit of crap at the moment.

However.... genuine question for you.... if we had got 350-400 do you think we would win this anyways on this wicket?

A little stat for you... we have only taken 20 wickets in an away test 3 times in the last 4 away series (and we lost 2 of those games).
The two are linked. You need runs to give the bowlers more of a chance, plus scoreboard pressure.
But I agree, our bowlers have been toothless overseas for ages.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 22, 2018, 08:36:44 PM
The two are linked. You need runs to give the bowlers more of a chance, plus scoreboard pressure.
But I agree, our bowlers have been toothless overseas for ages.

That's why I ask the question Buzz because I don't think we would win this game even with the scoreboard pressure of runs on the board.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Northern monkey on March 22, 2018, 08:53:23 PM
If England donít get 300 plus when they bat again, thatís it for me,watching this rubbish.

They are supposed to be the pinnacle of English cricket, and paid handsomely for their time, Iím not gonna waste anymore of mine being ashamed and embarrassed watching it.
The whole set up is a joke, they are worse than politicians
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 22, 2018, 08:55:22 PM
That's why I ask the question Buzz because I don't think we would win this game even with the scoreboard pressure of runs on the board.

You're completely off down the wrong line thou. The amount of runs we can put on the board in a five day game massively affects our chances of winning, he whole game would change from players confidence to the fields Root can set, to, yes, scoreboard pressure....

If we did post 250-300 we are raking time out of he game if we can't win it, so more chance of a drawn match.Call me old fashioned but I'd a rather we draw a game than lose it 99 times out of 100.

We just dont score enough runs...it's not the bowlers fault, and What on earth is Ali doing at 9? We must have a specialist bowler, a spinner preferably in that position.

Put yourself in Root's position for start of play tommorow, over attack to get back in the game and leak runs so they get too many, under attack and we didn't get the wickets and rely on them 'giving us' some?

He is actually in a very very difficult position.

Look at the SA game today, they have batted all day a is to the superb Elgar and still have two wickets left....

I must be seeing our match very different to others on here. I'm not always right thou  :)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 22, 2018, 09:04:51 PM
You're completely off down the wrong line thou. The amount of runs we can put on the board in a five day game massively affects our chances of winning, he whole game would change from players confidence to the fields Root can set, to, yes, scoreboard pressure....

If we did post 250-300 we are raking time out of he game if we can't win it, so more chance of a drawn match.Call me old fashioned but I'd a rather we draw a game than lose it 99 times out of 100.

We just dont score enough runs...it's not the bowlers fault, and What on earth is Ali doing at 9? We must have a specialist bowler, a spinner preferably in that position.

Put yourself in Root's position for start of play tommorow, over attack to get back in the game and leak runs so they get too many, under attack and we didn't get the wickets and rely on them 'giving us' some?

He is actually in a very very difficult position.

Look at the SA game today, they have batted all day a is to the superb Elgar and still have two wickets left....

I must be seeing our match very different to others on here. I'm not always right thou  :)

Look I am not saying for 1 millisecond that the batting is ok because quite clearly it isn't.

But you need to take 20 wickets to win a test match no matter how many runs you score. You can score 600 and force as much scoreboard pressure as you want but if you have a same old same old toothless attack. It will just be a draw.

And that's if you win the toss and bat 1st and score runs!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Calzehbhoy on March 22, 2018, 09:40:14 PM
Personally believe a huge part of the batting issue is actually Cook and this is making us question where Root/Stokes/Bairstow should be batting. Cook just is not the reliable & dependable opener he once was. If he was this would enable a Stoneman/Hameed/next cab off the rank to bed in!

With Stoneman now showing he is not good enough to be there despite the early promise England are left without a 1,2 or 3 that is any good.

We need to pick 3 players that we believe have the game ( 2 + Hameed in my opinion) and just stick with them and try and build a top order that can protect this middle order a little and give them a platform to score runs.

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 22, 2018, 09:44:53 PM
Look I am not saying for 1 millisecond that the batting is ok because quite clearly it isn't.

But you need to take 20 wickets to win a test match no matter how many runs you score. You can score 600 and force as much scoreboard pressure as you want but if you have a same old same old toothless attack. It will just be a draw.

And that's if you win the toss and bat 1st and score runs!

The problem with our bowling is that it just seems to be too similar. There isn't any variety in the bowlers. Also we don't have a proper spin bowler because is essentially a part timer.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: skip1973 on March 22, 2018, 10:08:53 PM
Bowlers win games, batsmen save them.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on March 22, 2018, 10:19:21 PM
DBD and Hameed for me at the top of the order when Cook calls it a day, DBD is a proven opener that can do the role for years and is class Hameed showed his worth before injury, the amount of openers we have tried is embarrassing.
Broad and Ali have to go, bring very little to the side over the past 13months, Broad has his 400th wicket and deserved to be given the chance to achieve such a great milestone but time for centiments is done. Overton has proved his skills in Aus before injury and to a degree again today, spinner wise is a massive problem but Crane and Leach look like the answers at present but we need to play them.
YJB I think should keep the gloves and bat 6
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Buzz on March 22, 2018, 10:27:23 PM
Crane is not the answer. He needs to bowl about 600 first class overs.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on March 23, 2018, 12:00:17 AM
The weather looks awful today lads, we're saved. Major pluses out of this trip so far are the coffee and McDonalds doing an all day breakfast menu
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: potzy248 on March 23, 2018, 12:35:24 AM
The weather looks awful today lads, we're saved. Major pluses out of this trip so far are the coffee and McDonalds doing an all day breakfast menu

Fine now. Should start on time. Come on Kane get another 100.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Over Gully on March 23, 2018, 03:42:33 AM
The problem with England is, they think they're a good cricket team...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 23, 2018, 06:22:21 AM
The problem with England is, they think they're a good cricket team...

That's as maybe but a lot of us die hard supporters know we are declining as a test team while the limited overs side improves dramatically.

So we don't think we are that good, our test record away from home is poor.

How to fix it is the issue, I'm not convinced myself the management know how to do that

Pace, a specialist spinner,specialist keeper and maybe a old style attritional batter should be being looked at for the five day game

NZ are a good side and a solid line up, Williamson is near the very top of the tree
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 23, 2018, 08:22:06 AM
So i am getting a bit fed up of talking about how bad we are currently so now need to talk about the future. It is time for the powers that be to hopefully wake up and smell the rubbish!

I hate using the old enemy as an example but I would like to take you back to Hobart 2016 AUS vs SA.

AUS after losing quite a few on the bounce were rolled for 85. Scorecard below.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10615/scorecard/1000853/Australia-vs-South-Africa-2nd-Test-sa-tour-of-australia-2016-17/ (http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10615/scorecard/1000853/Australia-vs-South-Africa-2nd-Test-sa-tour-of-australia-2016-17/)

Then this happened... Lehman sent everyone back to Shield Cricket (apart from Smith, Warner, Starc, Hazelwood) and said you are playing for your place.

https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/news/only-four-safe-in-shattered-australian-test-team-darren-lehmann-1312123.html (https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/news/only-four-safe-in-shattered-australian-test-team-darren-lehmann-1312123.html)

Then this.... they started the 3rd test with 3 debutants and dropped 5 players! And won the test.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10615/scorecard/1000855/Australia-vs-South-Africa-3rd-Test-south-africa-in-australia-test-series (http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10615/scorecard/1000855/Australia-vs-South-Africa-3rd-Test-south-africa-in-australia-test-series)

I really hope we can be this ruthless because something needs to change.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: procricket on March 23, 2018, 08:55:46 AM
Shame Renshaw can't come home to the motherland!.

For me there a too big disconnect with central contracts. The issue is exlusivity which i do not like i think players should play when they can and earn there rests.

People look at our breeding grounds but the step up from good to excerllant is auto blocked by central contracts and all these Lions tours and programs.

It one thing identifying talent but it another lettig it grow natuarally not a force feed system.

If i was a young kid now i would learn to whack the ball a mile and bowl as quick as i could, if i did not have the fibres to bowl quick i would learn variation and bowl spin because to me the money is in the white stuff.

Specialist are really hard to find now it a bit like football and the universal players they try to produce more and more to fit sytems of play instead of letting it emerge.

The issue is not just aimed at England either look around the world there lots of average itsy bitsy players knocking around (i give you Colin De Gridholme (sp).

For me realising your potential is by doing the hard yards and doing it in matches not wrapped away in some bubble at a Centre of Exerllance.

We need to look beyond the elite counties as well more and more.

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: stevat on March 23, 2018, 10:25:19 AM
Hameed is quality, love the stoic and pragmatic approach he has to his batting.  Stoneman plays the moving ball well, think he's got the technique to turn it round with a bit of luck and maybe a slight change in approach.

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: InternalTraining on March 23, 2018, 12:18:17 PM
Test cricket is here to stay.

T-20 and ODI won't "test" a batsman like the Test cricket and thanks to T-20 and ODI, batsmen no longer have the technique to play Test cricket which make it all the fun to watch!

Good job Kiwis. Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 23, 2018, 12:44:26 PM
Well, I think we can all agree that today was our best day of the series so far!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 23, 2018, 10:14:38 PM
Hameed is quality, love the stoic and pragmatic approach he has to his batting.  Stoneman plays the moving ball well, think he's got the technique to turn it round with a bit of luck and maybe a slight change in approach.

Stoneman does not have a good technique...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: stevat on March 23, 2018, 11:23:12 PM
Stoneman does not have a good technique...

Never said that it was, just think his technique isn't prohibitive to a decent test career.  He's not exactly the most aesthetically pleasing to watch bat, but he's compact and certainly seems watchful in county cricket at least.  You think test cricket is a step too far? 
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 24, 2018, 07:03:02 AM
How nice is the rain...joking aside hopefully the batsmen use the nets wisely over the past two days
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 24, 2018, 07:07:28 AM
Obviously day one was very disappointing for an England fan like me.
Really pleased with how we have performed on days two and three though-lots to feel more positive about! :D
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 24, 2018, 08:55:05 AM
Never said that it was, just think his technique isn't prohibitive to a decent test career.  He's not exactly the most aesthetically pleasing to watch bat, but he's compact and certainly seems watchful in county cricket at least.  You think test cricket is a step too far?

Yes. Heís simply not quite good enough. At least to his credit heís dug in a few times. Sadly, he just isnít upto standard
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 24, 2018, 09:03:54 AM
Obviously day one was very disappointing for an England fan like me.
Really pleased with how we have performed on days two and three though-lots to feel more positive about! :D

We are really clinging on to anything here!  Williamson will declare tonight presuming there is play which still leaves plenty of time to bowl us out

I'm normally an optimist but I don't see us reaching the 171 just to get even.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 24, 2018, 09:05:14 AM
Stoneman has played a few tests-5 of them against the Aussies,in Australia!Needs a big score granted but give the lad a chance
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 24, 2018, 09:06:15 AM
We are really clinging on to anything here!  Williamson will declare tonight presuming there is play which still leaves plenty of time to bowl us out

I'm normally an optimist but I don't see us reaching the 171 just to get even.

Hah I know!We would if Vince was playing...!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 24, 2018, 09:08:59 AM
Yes I think Stoneman more of a chance he has done ok with nothing special.

I quite like the way he plays and I'm afraid you have to look to the alternatives, we have to at least pick someone clearly better .

hameed long term for me, but nothing from him in the last year so really hard to pick him now

And the bigger question will be what's happens when Cook goes?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 24, 2018, 09:15:48 AM
Is Stoneman not the exact scenario they had with Carberry when they binned him off.

Both did ok opening up without being great in a very bad losing series, when up against a very good Australia bowling unit.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 24, 2018, 09:22:22 AM
Carberry most defiantly deserved to play after the Ashes, he got a very raw deal

I think he was around 34 and Stoneman is around 31 so they may well give him more time as he could be opening for a few years yet.

Carberry maybe they thought was the wrong side of 30

That's my take on it.

I would stick with Stoneman thru this summer as well. I could not give you another name better suited to the job

I'm 90 per cent certain Jennings will return for us at some point
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: procricket on March 24, 2018, 09:39:15 AM
Carberry most defiantly deserved to play after the Ashes, he got a very raw deal

I think he was around 34 and Stoneman is around 31 so they may well give him more time as he could be opening for a few years yet.

Carberry maybe they thought was the wrong side of 30

That's my take on it.

I would stick with Stoneman thru this summer as well. I could not give you another name better suited to the job

I'm 90 per cent certain Jennings will return for us at some point

And that is the real issue

Only Burns (Surrey) and Browne (Essex) from Division one are worthy mentions but between them they only managed 2 hundreds in the CC1 last year.

Then from division 2

Only really Denly or Mitchell or Northeast come out with any real credit oh and Luke Wells.


Of abtters need to be given a go Dan Lawrence at somestage possibly batting at 5.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: jamielsn15 on March 24, 2018, 09:44:46 AM
There has to be something in the lack of decent preparation for overseas tours. We had no decent opposition for the ashes and Agnew said on commentary that two weeks ago Cook was lambing on the farm. Nets and sub standardbopposition are not effective preparation at elite levels. The ICC schedules mean there's no opportunities for strong opponents and home boards don't put up decent sides.

I agree with the opinion that there should be a requirement to play at least two first class warm up matches. Failing to prepare is preparing to fail. Or the seven Ps if you wish...

As an aside, we have a new guy attending our club nets of a Thursday evening. Has one of James Vince's bats. He looked great, two stunning cover drives then knicked off.  How life imitates art...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 24, 2018, 09:55:30 AM
Talking of openers what about Alex Davies form Lancashire

Could do a job with the gloves to to take them off bairstow if we promote him up the order

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Johnny on March 24, 2018, 10:00:25 AM
Al has had one very good season with Lancs. I think he needs to show that it wasn't a one off before he gets full England recognition. I seem to recall he did ok in the lions tour without being spectacular. I kind of feel sorry for him in terms of it being hard to define his role. Is he a keeper or a batsmen? I don't think opening and keeping would be sustainable, though from hearing him in interviews that seems to be what he wants to do. He has youth on his side at the moment though.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: procricket on March 24, 2018, 10:03:17 AM
Al has had one very good season with Lancs. I think he needs to show that it wasn't a one off before he gets full England recognition. I seem to recall he did ok in the lions tour without being spectacular. I kind of feel sorry for him in terms of it being hard to define his role. Is he a keeper or a batsmen? I don't think opening and keeping would be sustainable, though from hearing him in interviews that seems to be what he wants to do. He has youth on his side at the moment though.

Ben Foakes is miles ahead in every aspect for me.(Even from a Lancastrian).

I agree though if he does better than he did last year he can not be a million miles away.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 24, 2018, 10:03:29 AM
Carberry battled and stuck around and wasn't completely terrible in his Ashes games, but watching you got the sense that he was batting at the top of his ability to do that well. Combined with age and beyond shocking fielding, I never understood why people were so surprised he got dropped! Maybe a tad harsh, but wasn't unjustified. Stoneman's not done that well and has even looked a bit poor at times, but does at least look like there's more to come if he can get comfortable at test level.

@alexhilly1492 taking the gloves off Bairstow so he can bat higher up the order... and giving them to a young lad we also want to try and open the batting?!

If Stoneman and then possibly Hameed don't come good then maybe we'll just have to settle for having opening batsmen who aren't that good... No test side with two settled good openers (40+ average) at the moment to be fair.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 24, 2018, 10:06:06 AM
@edge Iím not saying straight away but itís an option he did a good job keeping and opening for lancs last season, if he had another good year in the cc he had to be looked at!

If thatís a role heís succeeding with back him and let him continue that will free bairstow up to bat at 3/4/5 rather than 7

Which means we can bring in another batter/bowler
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: procricket on March 24, 2018, 10:07:13 AM
Carberry battled and stuck around and wasn't completely terrible in his Ashes games, but watching you got the sense that he was batting at the top of his ability to do that well. Combined with age and beyond shocking fielding, I never understood why people were so surprised he got dropped! Maybe a tad harsh, but wasn't unjustified. Stoneman's not done that well and has even looked a bit poor at times, but does at least look like there's more to come if he can get comfortable at test level.

@alexhilly1492 taking the gloves off Bairstow so he can bat higher up the order... and giving them to a young lad we also want to try and open the batting?!

If Stoneman and then possibly Hameed don't come good then maybe we'll just have to settle for having opening batsmen who aren't that good... No test side with two settled good openers (40+ average) at the moment to be fair.

I think South Africa will have very soon or do already but agree the standard is just not there. I had a quick look at the CC Averages and there nobody screaming out with bat or bowl pick me, bar maybe Stoneman and Balance.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 24, 2018, 10:14:18 AM
@edge Iím not saying straight away but itís an option he did a good job keeping and opening for lancs last season, if he had another good year in the cc he had to be looked at!

If thatís a role heís succeeding with back him and let him continue that will free bairstow up to bat at 3/4/5 rather than 7

Which means we can bring in another batter/bowler
I've not seen the lad play, but I'd be willing to bet quite a lot of money he's less good than either Alec Stewart or Kumar Sangakarra! If those two couldn't make top order batting while keeping work then it's not too reasonable to expect anyone else to.

@procricket yep hard to tell with Markram early in career but SA look to have the best pair by some distance. At what point do the England selectors give up and just try and find someone who'll see the shine off and average low 30s? That said, just both openers making it through the first 10 overs seems a long way away these days!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 24, 2018, 10:31:31 AM
The 1st thing the England selectors and Root need to do is decide what structure the side is going to take. For years now we have played a part time spinner/allrounder to hold an end up while the seamers rotate.

Stokes serves as an extra seamer and Bairstow wants the gloves and currently is batting 7, so if that carries on we are a side of Allrounders with no specialists etc..

Or do they want to play a specialist spinner and specialist keeper (and Bairstow bats higher), suddenly the shape of the side and the cricket we play changes completely. 
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: procricket on March 24, 2018, 10:34:23 AM
The 1st thing the England selectors and Root need to do is decide what structure the side is going to take. For years now we have played a part time spinner/allrounder to hold an end up while the seamers rotate.

Stokes serves as an extra seamer and Bairstow wants the gloves and currently is batting 7, so if that carries on we are a side of Allrounders with no specialists etc..

Or do they want to play a specialist spinner and specialist keeper (and Bairstow bats higher), suddenly the shape of the side and the cricket we play changes completely.

very good point

for me there not 5 better batsman than Bairstow so tough luck he bats at 5 or 4. Stokes at 6 get Foakes in at 7.

Our issue is we know we do not have a good enough side because thats why why go with the bits and peices players in the longer format.

We need 3 things for sure

A spinner
A opening batsman
And a bowler who is sharp

But then again i guess so do most nations




Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 24, 2018, 09:03:27 PM
Moeen Ali surely in last chance saloon in second dig.Missed a floaty full toss in the first innings...

Stoneman
Cook
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Stokes
Livingstone
Woakes
Broad
Leech
Anderson

Overton not good enough as a bowler from what I've seen,we don't need another bits and pieces player

I think Bairstow is a better all round bat than Stokes,and I know Livingstone batting at 7 as a specialist bat is too low,but our batting is ropey as hell right now!
Take the gloves off YJB and he will cry. Ideally Woakes starts scoring tons at 8 and we can slip in a raw wildcard quickee. The problem is they aren't ready to spilt up Broad Anderson and Woakes,but the three of them together is too samey.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on March 24, 2018, 09:10:29 PM
Weather is clear for today and tomorrow

Hopefully bat 40-50 overs and stick England in.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 24, 2018, 09:20:38 PM
Weather is clear for today and tomorrow

Hopefully bat 40-50 overs and stick England in.
300 lead Max I say.. England will crumble
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 24, 2018, 09:21:35 PM
Moeen Ali surely in last chance saloon in second dig.Missed a floaty full toss in the first innings...

Stoneman
Cook
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Stokes
Livingstone
Woakes
Broad
Leech
Anderson

Overton not good enough as a bowler from what I've seen,we don't need another bits and pieces player

I think Bairstow is a better all round bat than Stokes,and I know Livingstone batting at 7 as a specialist bat is too low,but our batting is ropey as hell right now!
Take the gloves off YJB and he will cry. Ideally Woakes starts scoring tons at 8 and we can slip in a raw wildcard quickee. The problem is they aren't ready to spilt up Broad Anderson and Woakes,but the three of them together is too samey.

Specialist number 7..really ??

Why not move stokes down ? Heís an all rounder and isnít good enough as a pure batsmen (avg 35 remember)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 24, 2018, 09:35:25 PM
Yep fair enough,I agree with that actually, although apparently Stokes isn't an all-rounder in current test match
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 24, 2018, 09:40:13 PM
Weather is clear for today and tomorrow

Hopefully bat 40-50 overs and stick England in.

Not if we got some sandpaper it won't be.Bairstow, not being the brightest of the group plans to put a workbench behind him for a bit of tooling up between overs.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 24, 2018, 10:41:25 PM
I think Gubbins seems to be an up and comer for a top 3 spot.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 25, 2018, 06:58:27 AM
Stoneman digging in this is what we need come in the lads!!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 25, 2018, 07:21:49 AM
Stoneman digging in this is what we need come in the lads!!

Talk about the kiss of death!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Calzehbhoy on March 25, 2018, 07:22:07 AM
Brainless batting once again!

NZ had 2 deep fine legs and a deep square leg all waiting for The mistimed pull/hook.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 25, 2018, 07:26:16 AM
Oh gawd !!

Well batted...it's just not quite enough really thou, we do need hundreds

At least he battled it out for a while
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 25, 2018, 07:53:19 AM
Stoneman digging in this is what we need come in the lads!!

So again. We talked about this during the ashes. Stoneman kind of does ok for 30-50 ish then for some reason decides to start playing all mannor or aggressive shots and gets out. Itís simpky brain dead batting.

Test batting isnít All about skill but is about the mental side.. this game again means runs were meaningless. He didnít need to play an attacking shot as England canít win the game.. he was purely playing for the draw as NZ have batted us out the game.. itís just stupid

Positive Cricket
Brand of Cricket
Counter attack

All that load of utter garbage this modern set of players come out with

Oh and cook looks done again in all bar his 200 odd in the ashes
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on March 25, 2018, 08:00:42 AM
Cookís poor record in NZ continues - he only seems to get runs these days if the pitch is a road.

Another wicket before close would be perfect
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Buzz on March 25, 2018, 08:32:32 AM
Argh.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 25, 2018, 08:36:19 AM
So again. We talked about this during the ashes. Stoneman kind of does ok for 30-50 ish then for some reason decides to start playing all mannor or aggressive shots and gets out. Itís simpky brain dead batting.

Test batting isnít All about skill but is about the mental side.. this game again means runs were meaningless. He didnít need to play an attacking shot as England canít win the game.. he was purely playing for the draw as NZ have batted us out the game.. itís just stupid

Positive Cricket
Brand of Cricket
Counter attack

All that load of utter garbage this modern set of players come out with

Oh and cook looks done again in all bar his 200 odd in the ashes

Agree with you to a certain extent. The best players seem either to have a low score or a very big score, look at Williamson for example, Stoneman seems to be in between

He is getting runs and doing ok....it's a bit odd I agree. We need big scores as everyone knows you can get a good ball or unlucky early in an innings

Everything seems to get blamed on the modern game, for me it's just a question of how mentally tough you are.

The best batsmen in the world at the moment bat big, big hundreds....that has nothing to do wi modern play, it's just how good you are

I would stick with Stoneman and I like Malan....but we need so one else coming in who is 'good enough' to bat for a day on his own
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 25, 2018, 08:42:17 AM
Young Joe loves a half century...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 25, 2018, 08:45:24 AM
Young Joe loves a half century...

oh my lord I give up!

Why did Root not just cone off retired hurt? He had the physio out there was obviously in pain.... time was up... Just come off... and the days up!! FFS.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on March 25, 2018, 08:48:04 AM
That spell from Boult at the end! Troubled them with his pace and short stuff - complete contrast to the swing in the first innings
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 25, 2018, 09:15:06 AM
Re the Stoneman and Root dismisals, as well as some of the Ashes dismissals, does anyone else feel like the England batsmen need someone else to do their thinking for them?

I wonder how Baylis, Ramps, Thorpe et al work on their mindsets?

Feels like the annoyingly talented git in 3rd XI who could win you games but keeps holing out for 8 because ďitís the way he plays ď 😡
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 25, 2018, 09:43:45 AM
I see Woakes and Ali wicketless again - anyone see how well we actually bowled ?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 25, 2018, 09:54:35 AM
It's so frustrating with Joe. Just seems to get to 50 and then gets out.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 25, 2018, 09:56:16 AM
Woakes lacks wicket taking abilities at the very top level. Read on twitter he took 34 wickets at home two summers ago at 17 against Sri Lanka and Pakistan. His remaining 26 wickets have come at 60 a piece.

Moeen is Moeen. Just not a test cricketer
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on March 25, 2018, 09:56:29 AM
It's so frustrating with Joe. Just seems to get to 50 and then gets out.

He was got out by Boult as opposed to throwing it away. He shouldíve gone off after being struck on the finger. Wouldnít surprise me if thatís a broken digit
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 25, 2018, 10:08:35 AM
He was got out by Boult as opposed to throwing it away. He shouldíve gone off after being struck on the finger. Wouldnít surprise me if thatís a broken digit

Exactly so for me that is 50/50.... great ball from Boult to get him on the hand.... but then Root should have gone off which was ultimately what got him out.... not think you are this unbeatable batsman who can do anything you like!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 25, 2018, 10:10:07 AM
Thatís kind of my point Newey - they seem to lack the ability to think smart! Whack on the finger at the end of the day, off we pop thanks!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 25, 2018, 01:29:25 PM
Agree with you to a certain extent. The best players seem either to have a low score or a very big score, look at Williamson for example, Stoneman seems to be in between

He is getting runs and doing ok....it's a bit odd I agree. We need big scores as everyone knows you can get a good ball or unlucky early in an innings

Everything seems to get blamed on the modern game, for me it's just a question of how mentally tough you are.

The best batsmen in the world at the moment bat big, big hundreds....that has nothing to do wi modern play, it's just how good you are

I would stick with Stoneman and I like Malan....but we need so one else coming in who is 'good enough' to bat for a day on his own

The mental side is part of the modern game though. Thatís kind of the point. Not only does white ball / win lose mean you lose technical aspects in the hunt for risky runs but you also change the mentality of players.

Suddenly being able to happily occupy the crease becomes harder as they want to score a run a ball.. be busy.. hit boundaries etc etc

You simply donít get many players able to genuinely bat in all formats because itís so different . If they do pay all formats, then they are likely to be compromising
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 25, 2018, 02:23:12 PM
Our attack is toothless. Heard a stat this winter that Anderson and Broad combined average 33, the rest of the attack combined average 70. That tells it all.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on March 26, 2018, 05:32:42 AM
Stokes was doing his job so well until having a brainfade, can't see Woakes and Overton seeing out the final session.

Farbrace gave me a pink Kookaburra, nice chap
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on March 26, 2018, 05:46:35 AM
Just seen bairstowís dismissal - to get out like that whilst trying to save the game!

3 more to go, should be easy under lights
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: smilley792 on March 26, 2018, 05:47:20 AM
Stokes looked absolutely shattered. Not sure heís fully test match fit yet.

But Heís gonna be gutted he didnít leave that.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 26, 2018, 06:02:39 AM
You know it's 5 years to the day that Monty and Prior saved the test here and we were 7 down going into the last session then apparently.

Can't see it this time... ours guys aren't as good as Monty!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 26, 2018, 06:31:30 AM
Great fighting from forum favourite woakes but overtons wicket was a hammer blow

We are not going to hold out like 5 years ago this time
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 26, 2018, 06:59:57 AM
So let me get this straight- New Zealand have soundly beaten us, with a bowling attack that is by no means express, that contains left armers and bowlers who try and do something different within their limited abilities. They also picked a rookie spinner who whilst flawed, still made things happen and took wickets.

Hmmmmm
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Calzehbhoy on March 26, 2018, 07:11:07 AM
We just arenít very good at this test cricket malarkey are we!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 26, 2018, 07:13:21 AM
So let me get this straight- New Zealand have soundly beaten us, with a bowling attack that is by no means express, that contains left armers and bowlers who try and do something different within their limited abilities. They also picked a rookie spinner who whilst flawed, still made things happen and took wickets.

Hmmmmm

I find Wagner the most curious of bowlers. Surely there is the definition of someone who has and gets the most of every bit of talent he has and adaptated it to the needs required.

That being said how does he get away with it? He bowls constantly short at mid 130's-surely test batsman should be able to just line that up?

This is by no means a slight or taking away from his bowling just a question/observation.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on March 26, 2018, 07:22:18 AM
Wagners a one trick pony that seems to work, I wonder how'd he fare if he had a slower ball; could only imagine it being a nightmare to pick
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on March 26, 2018, 07:23:07 AM
We just arenít very good at this test cricket malarkey are we!

Good at home, awful overseas. Like 98% of teams right now
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 26, 2018, 07:35:57 AM
Moeen was a liability all winter. Time to pension him off.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Seniorplayer on March 26, 2018, 08:02:22 AM
Great fighting from forum favourite woakes but overtons wicket was a hammer blow

We are not going to hold out like 5 years ago this time

Pressure off innings from the forum favourite.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Kulli on March 26, 2018, 08:25:16 AM
Pressure off innings from the forum favourite.
I'll bite.

They had every chance to save the game until stokes go out, by which time he had made 38 from 84. I'll give you that any runs after that were pretty much pressure free.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 26, 2018, 09:05:53 AM
A valiant effort from both Stokes and Woakes with that partnership but once we lost Stokes it was game over. We lost three wickets to what was effectively the final ball of the session. You can't do that and expect a positive outcome from a test match.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Kulli on March 26, 2018, 09:13:02 AM
A valiant effort from both Stokes and Woakes with that partnership but once we lost Stokes it was game over. We lost three wickets to what was effectively the final ball of the session. You can't do that and expect a positive outcome from a test match.

Not entirely sure that was the number 1 issue this test  :D
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on March 26, 2018, 09:21:34 AM
Wagners a one trick pony that seems to work, I wonder how'd he fare if he had a slower ball; could only imagine it being a nightmare to pick

One trick pony thatís very effective! He cops a lot of stick but he does the job

Great win for NZ effectively in 3 days
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: petehosk on March 26, 2018, 09:25:35 AM
The Test was lost in the first innings! Seriously struggle to come back from a collapse like that!
Was nice to see some players dig in but there was only likely to be one conclusion in the end.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 26, 2018, 09:43:37 AM
I find Wagner the most curious of bowlers. Surely there is the definition of someone who has and gets the most of every bit of talent he has and adaptated it to the needs required.

That being said how does he get away with it? He bowls constantly short at mid 130's-surely test batsman should be able to just line that up?

This is by no means a slight or taking away from his bowling just a question/observation.

From what I've seen, he's good at spotting the guy who has him lined up and changing tactics before he gets taken to the cleaners.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: t2ylo on March 26, 2018, 04:17:48 PM
Itís frustrating but surely we need a better strategy. We are too packed with all-rounders which works in white ball but not at test level. Too many left handers. Too many bowlers picked because they can bat. No proper spinner or keeper.
Stokes is our key man until courts decide otherwise.

So really three best openers, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Keeper, spinner and three seamers
For me the only thought for me is whether YJB is in top three
Iím not a fan of Stoneman & Malan I would go youth but contradict myself by wanting Sam Northeast in my team

So I would go...

Hameed
Cook
Bairstow
Root
Northeast
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Archer (find a way to fast track him)
Leach
Anderson

My Somerset bias says Abell will eventually play for England despite last seasons disaster
Failing Archer we need a wildcard quick but therein lies the problem
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: 19reading87 on March 26, 2018, 04:22:52 PM
Itís frustrating but surely we need a better strategy. We are too packed with all-rounders which works in white ball but not at test level. Too many left handers. Too many bowlers picked because they can bat. No proper spinner or keeper.
Stokes is our key man until courts decide otherwise.

So really three best openers, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Keeper, spinner and three seamers
For me the only thought for me is whether YJB is in top three
Iím not a fan of Stoneman & Malan I would go youth but contradict myself by wanting Sam Northeast in my team

So I would go...

Hameed
Cook
Bairstow
Root
Northeast
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Archer (find a way to fast track him)
Leach
Anderson

My Somerset bias says Abell will eventually play for England despite last seasons disaster
Failing Archer we need a wildcard quick but therein lies the problem

A time machine???

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: t2ylo on March 26, 2018, 04:45:45 PM
A time machine???

Failing the customisation of a Delorean rotate Garton, Mahmood, Stone, Joverton & Barber
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 26, 2018, 05:16:56 PM
@t2ylo  - a little unfair on Malan at this stage?

Also, we have just been beaten by an attack that boasts no speedsters, simply well drilled and good at what they do, plus they have a bit of variety.

I know I will get shouted down, but their do seem to be a few 'undroppables', guys with great past records, but who have simply not been performing for quite some time - where is the incentive to keep their place if they picked again and again and again?

I'm looking at Cook, Ali and Broad.

I'm also wondering if the future is with Stokes as a batter only and Woakes very much the 4th seam / no7 bat who is there to keep an end tight and not necessarily run through a side - that would allow us to pick a more expensive spinner.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 26, 2018, 05:42:45 PM
@t2ylo
I'm also wondering if the future is with Stokes as a batter only and Woakes very much the 4th seam / no7 bat who is there to keep an end tight and not necessarily run through a side - that would allow us to pick a more expensive spinner.
Stokes is too good a bowler for that! Think the issue with Woakes is that he's a specialist opening swing/seam merchant, so perhaps shouldn't be a surprise that he doesn't offer much penetration with the old Kookaburra. Not the worst thing in the world as he's usually tight when it isn't swinging, but it does make you question selecting him as a change bowler abroad. Tough call to make to possibly drop Broad, but something's got to change. Think we're most struggling for a third seamer, new ball operators coming out of our ears but noone like Wagner, or Bresnan, who can do the job after the swing bowlers have worn the lacquer off. Made worse by not having a proper spinner who can jam up an end and keep the pressure on, and no runs to play with.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on March 27, 2018, 02:43:47 AM
Also here's a photo of that Kookaburra Farbrace gave to me yesterday; kept in relatively decent shape

(https://i.imgur.com/YVebk7Ur.jpg)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 27, 2018, 04:46:05 PM
Any odds on the XI for Friday (I think?)

I'm hoping they go something like -

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes
Overton
Wood
Anderson
Leach

If there was another opener in the squad, I'd bunt Cook out too!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Johnny on March 27, 2018, 04:46:48 PM
Didn't think currant was on the tour brucey?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: procricket on March 27, 2018, 04:48:35 PM
If Stokes could bowl

I would go

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Bairstow
Malan
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes/Leach Pitch dependant-Stokes
Broad
Wood
Anderson
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 27, 2018, 04:53:43 PM
This reminds me of the Wellington bloodbath that ended Hoggard's England career and more or less Wor Harmy's too

Who will go? I think Ali is a certainty. I could also see a point being made to Cook...

Foakes
Stoneman
Malan
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Livingstone
Woakes
Leach
Wood
Anderson
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 27, 2018, 04:58:27 PM
amended because I am a twonk (and ever hopeful)

My crazy-assed 'throw the baby out with the bathwater team for next summer would be:

Hameed
Bell-Drummond
Gubbins
Root
Malan
Bairstow+
Stokes (if he can bowl)
TRJ
Garton / Some other left hander
Anderson (c)
Parkinson
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 27, 2018, 06:11:52 PM
They haven't got that much of a chance to change to be honest... From what's available I'd go

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Livingstone
Stokes (if fit, if not Vince/Bairstow with Foakes keeping)
Bairstow
Woakes/Broad
Wood
Leach
Anderson

Not all that happy about the tail if Broad played ahead of Woakes though!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: SD on March 28, 2018, 12:24:31 AM
It is sad that we seem to have learnt nothing from the Ashes series when it comes to team selection.

It was obviously the batting that let us down in this game, but I don't see there are a lot of quality options in the batting department.  The bigger worry is that we don't have a bowling attack that looks able to take 20 wickets in a game away from England.  Right now, we have better options like Wood, Plunkett and Rashid playing white ball cricket whilst the likes of Ali, Woakes, Overton and Curran have been utterly innocuous in red ball cricket all winter
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: billyb on March 28, 2018, 12:41:33 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Cook will score mountains of runs down the order, he's lost that bit extra that had made him a world class opener. Give him a chance to cash in.

Hameed
Stoneman
Malan
Root
Cook (or at 3)
Bairstow
Stokes
Woakes
Wood
Leach
Anderson

Then you've got Foakes, DBD, Livingstone, Jennings, Vince, Moeen, Gubbins and Northeast  fighting to join the batting unit.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 28, 2018, 05:47:07 AM
They won't change much for the last test of the winter. Simply because they can't and their too stubborn to do it as well. Their aren't the players in NZ to make sweeping changes. I think it will be -

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes
Broad
Wood - in for Overton if Stokes can't bowl
Leach - in for Ali
Anderson

If Stokes can bowl then I think Vince may get another chance and come in for Overton.

The summer is a completely different ball game however especially if we lose or draw the 2nd test where I really think anyone doing well early season could make a case for being picked there would be that many slots open!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 28, 2018, 06:00:11 AM
They won't change much for the last test of the winter. Simply because they can't and their too stubborn to do it as well. Their aren't the players in NZ to make sweeping changes. I think it will be -

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes
Broad
Wood - in for Overton if Stokes can't bowl
Leach - in for Ali
Anderson

If Stokes can bowl then I think Vince may get another chance and come in for Overton.

The summer is a completely different ball game however especially if we lose or draw the 2nd test where I really think anyone doing well early season could make a case for being picked there would be that many slots open!

Yes you could well be right it could be a merry go round once we get to the summer.
It's time to play a specialist spinner I think now we surely have to find someone, and that means Ali misses out this time, it's a bit harsh because he has done well for us but we only usually play one spinner , it's upto others ahead of him to get runs or be dropped.

Wood is not the answer long term but we need to win a test match somewhere so they might as well chuck him in and see what happens.

I do think England despite not wanting to make changes generally will make a couple for the next match.

I hope I'm wrong but there are signs Cook may have lost motivation, I still think we need him for another couple of years myself but he may choose to walk away I fear
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 28, 2018, 07:11:31 AM
Yes you could well be right it could be a merry go round once we get to the summer.
It's time to play a specialist spinner I think now we surely have to find someone, and that means Ali misses out this time, it's a bit harsh because he has done well for us but we only usually play one spinner , it's upto others ahead of him to get runs or be dropped.

Wood is not the answer long term but we need to win a test match somewhere so they might as well chuck him in and see what happens.

I do think England despite not wanting to make changes generally will make a couple for the next match.

I hope I'm wrong but there are signs Cook may have lost motivation, I still think we need him for another couple of years myself but he may choose to walk away I fear

If you look at Cook's career it has always gone in peaks and troffs but i don't think you can ever question his motivation otherwise he would never get back that peak.

Generally his slump in form has always been down do him not lining the ball up correctly - he gets his head in the wrong place and often means so he plays at balls he wouldn't normally which is a massive part of his game etc... and i think that is happening again.

Maybe he will decide he doesn't want to do the work to get it all back in order and maybe he will call it a day - but i do think he will carry on playing for Essex, which undoubtedly means he will score a load of early season runs to get him back in form etc....
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 28, 2018, 08:19:16 AM
I think they may have already stated Stokes won't bowl in the next test?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Seniorplayer on March 28, 2018, 08:28:27 AM
They haven't got that much of a chance to change to be honest... From what's available I'd go

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Livingstone
Stokes (if fit, if not Vince/Bairstow with Foakes keeping)
Bairstow
Woakes/Broad
Wood
Leach
Anderson

Not all that happy about the tail if Broad played ahead of Woakes though!

Broad has a pedigree Woakes last 16 wickets averages 60 runs each not  good enough bowling  deteriorating 0 for 106 last test
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 28, 2018, 08:36:31 AM
Broad has a pedigree Woakes last 16 wickets averages 60 runs each not  good enough for tests

at the minute (in my opinion anyway) woakes looks more likely to take wickets, i hate to say it as he has been fantastic for england ( and im a notts fan) but broad looks done, until last summer i always thought he had one of those spells in him but now im not so sure just looks shot to me
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: velvetsky01 on March 28, 2018, 08:37:59 AM
yeah I would tend to agree I think Board is done - he is also a walking wicket too which is such a shame as before the smack in the face he was a very good batsmen to have down the order
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 28, 2018, 09:39:13 AM
What is the big deal with Bell-Drummond?

I know he has some potential, but in red ball cricket he has never played in D1 and averaged 25 in D2 last year. 
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 28, 2018, 07:32:57 PM
Pre season hundred for hameed today against Glamorgan, hopefully he can force his way back into the England side!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on March 28, 2018, 07:43:00 PM
What is the big deal with Bell-Drummond?

I know he has some potential, but in red ball cricket he has never played in D1 and averaged 25 in D2 last year.

He is still young early/mid 20ís has played county cricket for years and is a proven opening batsmen. Quite a few have made the jump to test level with avg 1st class performances, Cook was one of those I believe as was Flintoff so worth a go
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 28, 2018, 07:58:20 PM
He is still young early/mid 20ís has played county cricket for years and is a proven opening batsmen. Quite a few have made the jump to test level with avg 1st class performances, Cook was one of those I believe as was Flintoff so worth a go

Cook was 21 and so was Freddie - they were prodigy picks who had had very little time to prove anything.  Even the genius punts - Virgil and Banger - averaged mid 30s in the top division. 

I guess what I'm saying is, how would the likes of Gubbins, Robson, Lyth, Northeast, Burns, Borthwick etc and nauseum feel if someone with no form or figures was hurled in above them?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 28, 2018, 08:04:12 PM
Bell-Drummond's been talked up for a long time but never seemed to get anywhere much. There's better div 2 openers out there... Chris Dent anyone?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 28, 2018, 08:32:04 PM
Clarke got a ton in the north south game the other day. He looks good as I've said before.

But again....not the volume of runs behind him really to make a case.he is young thou so time on his side.

Livingstone if selection is consistent,should be the next to have a chance in he team...but that does not solve any problems in the opening positions.i think he is a number 3 or 4 for lancs, Clarke again 3 or 4 for worcs.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 28, 2018, 08:40:39 PM
I think we have a decent number of number fives, and some good youngsters (I'd add Dan Lawrence to that list). But we need an opener to stick...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Jlscarroll17 on March 28, 2018, 09:26:46 PM
There's two openers that could replace cook in my eyes and they are Rory burns and nick Browne, both consistently scored Above 1000 fc runs for some time now surely they deserve a call up
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 28, 2018, 09:30:34 PM
Burns might be a shirtfront bully. Browne certainly has scones.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 28, 2018, 09:30:50 PM
I still think Gubbins will feature at some point, Hameed only needs to string a few scores together, Bell-Drummond is on the radar, Robson may get a second go and Northeast- there are options possibly
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 29, 2018, 06:05:38 AM
Ali and Woakes both dropped for the second test

So two of three out of wood,leach and Vince in.....

Hmm....it's must mean a debut for jack leach I would think?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 29, 2018, 06:17:18 AM
Vince!?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 29, 2018, 06:32:23 AM
Ali and Woakes both dropped for the second test

So two of three out of wood,leach and Vince in.....

Hmm....it's must mean a debut for jack leach I would think?

Think it's probably more Overton or Wood. Leach will play otherwise Root/Malan is only spin option
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Seniorplayer on March 29, 2018, 07:35:37 AM
Ali and Woakes both dropped for the second test

So two of three out of wood,leach and Vince in.....

Hmm....it's must mean a debut for jack leach I would think?

Forum favourite Woakes dropped I don't believe it !
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Alvaro on March 29, 2018, 08:02:01 AM
This team looks like a mid table county side.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 29, 2018, 08:03:32 AM
Hopefully it means we've moved on from Moeen. He had a few fluke efforts otherwise he's been average at best. Woakes' bowling has fallen away since the got that side strain last summer.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 29, 2018, 08:26:38 AM
Apparently spin is rather redundant at this ground, with spinners getting very few wickets and reduced to a largely supporting role, so they may go with 4 quicks and the part-timers. Stokes won't bowl.

I suspect they will go with:

Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Stokes
YJB
Overton
Broad
Wood
Anderson

I would be tempted by:

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Stokes
YJB
Livingstone
Overton
Broad
Wood
Anderson

3 x part time spinners between them will get more wickets than Mo currently manages.

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 29, 2018, 08:57:16 AM
Apparently spin is rather redundant at this ground, with spinners getting very few wickets and reduced to a largely supporting role, so they may go with 4 quicks and the part-timers. Stokes won't bowl.

I suspect they will go with:

Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Stokes
YJB
Overton
Broad
Wood
Anderson

I would be tempted by:

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Stokes
YJB
Livingstone
Overton
Broad
Wood
Anderson

3 x part time spinners between them will get more wickets than Mo currently manages.

We haven't played 4 out and out seamers in years (not including Stokes in that equation) so it will be interesting if they go with that option. But we are forced into a corner with Stokes not being able to bowl and Mo bowling dreadful.

Vince really is in last chance motel territory surely!

I really think it is an ideal time to have a look at Leach though - put him in, see what he is made of and it isn't turning a great deal then it's more of a test for him and we get a better idea of what he is made of etc....

I would like to see....

Cook
Stoneman
Vince - i don't like it but i think he has to play considering our batting situation at the moment.
Root
Malan
Stokes
YJB
Broad
Wood
Leach
Anderson
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: northernboy1987 on March 29, 2018, 09:04:12 AM
Apparently spin is rather redundant at this ground, with spinners getting very few wickets and reduced to a largely supporting role, so they may go with 4 quicks and the part-timers. Stokes won't bowl.

I suspect they will go with:

Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Stokes
YJB
Overton
Broad
Wood
Anderson

I would be tempted by:

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Stokes
YJB
Livingstone
Overton
Broad
Wood
Anderson

3 x part time spinners between them will get more wickets than Mo currently manages.

People keep putting Livingstone in at 7 in their teams, just wondering what the thinking is @FattusCattus ? His future is very much as a top order batsman who bowls fairly part time leggies in my opinion rather than a genuine all round option. If I was playing the XI you mentioned I'd line up as follows:

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Livingstone
Stokes
YJB
Overton
Broad
Wood
Anderson

Stokes and Livingstone could swap I suppose if Stokes can't bowl but I wouldn't bat Livingstone any lower than 6 I don't think
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: cricketbadger on March 29, 2018, 10:30:42 AM
Think the idea is to ease him in gently, and at 7 he can hopefully come into bat with a bit less pressure on him. I can see the logic in it, prefer him to get some test match experience, instead of being chucked straight in and failing and being forgotten about. Investing a little more time now could prove successful in the long run
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 29, 2018, 10:45:27 AM
People keep putting Livingstone in at 7 in their teams, just wondering what the thinking is @FattusCattus ? His future is very much as a top order batsman who bowls fairly part time leggies in my opinion rather than a genuine all round option. If I was playing the XI you mentioned I'd line up as follows:

My thinking is that in my side, there are two specialist openers and four guys who are better batsmen than him.  Simples.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 29, 2018, 09:37:14 PM
Stuck us in again.

Why on earth is Bairstow batting seven ahead of four rabbits? What a waste of our best player (other than Root perhaps)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Buzz on March 29, 2018, 09:38:17 PM
Also, let's drop 3 bowlers when we got bowled out for 58
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 29, 2018, 09:40:20 PM
Big risk in Wood being our 3rd seamer with his past injury record.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 29, 2018, 09:40:43 PM
That too. And let's make one of em a guy who is effective twelve overs a day tops...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 29, 2018, 09:44:22 PM
Why the negativity chaps?Vince is  back in! Can't wait to see a couple of lovely cover drives before midnight!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 29, 2018, 09:46:08 PM
That too. And let's make one of em a guy who is effective twelve overs a day tops...

Along with Leach who is on debut. Interesting stat I just heard that 5 of the last 7 spinners we've selected have debuted in the final game of a test series.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 29, 2018, 09:49:08 PM
Along with Leach who is on debut. Interesting stat I just heard that 5 of the last 7 spinners we've selected have debuted in the final game of a test series.

Actually Leach is the one guy done a solid by the selectors. It may not be Ciderabad but at least he will get fast chance to show he can block up an end and hopefully about more.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Big Mac on March 29, 2018, 09:50:46 PM
Can't believe they've dropped Woakes before they even gave him a chance with the new ball, this is ridiculous.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 29, 2018, 09:53:23 PM
You are all going to be doing pleasantly surprised. Cook and Vince are going big!

I have been drinking.

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 29, 2018, 10:00:54 PM
I have been drinking.

No? Really? 😁
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 29, 2018, 10:10:12 PM
Ah, Mr Yorker, I've missed you...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 29, 2018, 10:10:41 PM
Cook is done
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Jlscarroll17 on March 29, 2018, 10:11:15 PM
And here we are again !!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Jlscarroll17 on March 29, 2018, 10:12:41 PM
Cook is done

Said it for a couple of years now surely this summer is the chance to bleed a new opener into the side to replace him
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 29, 2018, 10:14:35 PM
Cook's feet movement again going nowhere, stuck in concrete.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 29, 2018, 10:15:03 PM
Cook is not moving towards the ball , we don't seem to be very good moving out feet.
Looks like he has work to do again when he gets home, if he gets the chance and if he is motivated to do so

I may be in a minority but I'm still backing him this summer  :)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 29, 2018, 10:16:03 PM
ďAnd now, the end is near......Ē
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: billyb on March 29, 2018, 10:16:22 PM
Alastair Cook is quickly becoming the racehorse that no-one can bear to put of it's misery.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Big Mac on March 29, 2018, 10:16:35 PM
Might as well let Moeen open tbh :D
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: billyb on March 29, 2018, 10:17:31 PM
Woakes to open!

(I'm only half joking, his technique is sound).
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Jlscarroll17 on March 29, 2018, 10:20:22 PM
Might as well let Moeen open tbh :D

Least that way we could get another bowling option into the side !
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 29, 2018, 10:22:21 PM
YES! We are batting Gods!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on March 29, 2018, 10:27:00 PM
Cook is starting to look cooked. Let's hope he retires with dignity rather than trying to carry on and getting unceremoniously dropped

Stoneman doesn't look like he's got a big one in him and Vince is starting on off and moving his back foot to leg

Early signs not looking good, I may go to bed when I've finished my beer :(
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 29, 2018, 10:32:01 PM
I of course meant Vince and Stoneman !!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 29, 2018, 10:32:42 PM
Woakes to open!

(I'm only half joking, his technique is sound).

I just read Vinces average is 22 and Chrissy boy is averaging 28!

I think Woakes has been unlucky to be dropped to be honest. If it's a choice of broad Woakes or Overton for that position(number 8)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 29, 2018, 10:38:18 PM
Top scorer in Englandís innings? Iím going Malan or Bairstow
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 29, 2018, 10:40:35 PM
I just read Vinces average is 22 and Chrissy boy is averaging 28!

I think Woakes has been unlucky to be dropped to be honest. If it's a choice of broad Woakes or Overton for that position(number 8)

 Woakes canít buy a wicket at the moment (which is his prime job after all), so what are we to do?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Jlscarroll17 on March 29, 2018, 11:14:39 PM
There's certainly a few spots up for grabs come the summer !
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 29, 2018, 11:25:56 PM
Root marking an extra guard line 8-10 inches outside off to Dr Grandhomme, haven't seen that before?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Big Mac on March 29, 2018, 11:41:39 PM
What is the point of Vince, bloody hell
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 29, 2018, 11:43:58 PM
Making Tim Westley look hard done to?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 29, 2018, 11:51:43 PM
Bring back the Shermanator
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 30, 2018, 12:05:19 AM
Or Colly, JT, KP, Lyth or Robson?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 30, 2018, 12:06:29 AM
Good shout!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 30, 2018, 12:07:27 AM
Vince looks good then just gets out. A bit like me except I don't even look good!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on March 30, 2018, 12:22:39 AM
Lovely ground

(https://i.imgur.com/iImBg11r.jpg)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: billyb on March 30, 2018, 01:26:47 AM
Welcome to the 90s.
Here's what I'd do to save this batting lineup. It needs strengthening as a matter of urgency. All this talk of DBD, Livingstone is all well and good, but I think an experienced player at the international level would be a better option. Hales' test record isn't that far from Moeen's, and I'm pretty sure he'd be doing a better job than Cook at the moment, even if he's a muppet.

Hameed (Cook's replacement, time for him to return)
Stoneman (He'll come good eventually)
Cook (try him out lower down, otherwise time for retirement)
Root (No questions)
Roy (He's shown he has what it takes against the best ODI and T20 sides, and he's a far stronger option than Vince/Ballance etc. He's experienced at the international level now too- he won't be as green as the youngsters. Less time to adapt).
Bairstow (No questions)
Stokes (No questions)
Woakes  (No questions)- Given the current circumstances is virtually worth it as a batsman
Broad/Wood/Plunkett- Needs to be a variety bowler
Leach
Anderson
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Big Mac on March 30, 2018, 03:29:27 AM
Bloody hell, Stuart Broad shouldn't bat at 8 for a club 3rd XI much less a test side.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Big Mac on March 30, 2018, 04:29:10 AM
This partnership between Bairstow and Wood has been invaluable, everything going right for Wood today
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 30, 2018, 05:29:16 AM
Brilliant from bairstow and superb stuff from Wood.

I watched a bit when Vince was batting, it's the same as every other time, some class shots and out for a nothing score so we have learnt nothin new

I'm not one overly for stats but just seen Foakes has a better FC average than Vince and Woakes a significantly higher test average
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on March 30, 2018, 05:55:30 AM
A lovely day
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Calzehbhoy on March 30, 2018, 06:09:23 AM
What about giving Woakes a crack at 3?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Northern monkey on March 30, 2018, 06:36:33 AM
Howís Cook doing?
Iím still waiting for these runs everyoneís told me heís going to score
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: velvetsky01 on March 30, 2018, 06:42:35 AM
I am a huge cook fan but I think the time has come for him to bow out gracefully. However what I think will happen is he will have one more English summer and retire from test cricket at the end of the season. Hopefully having scored some runs
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on March 30, 2018, 07:16:41 AM
Cookís waiting for the Indians to come in summer so he can fill his boots. Sitting bunny for boult - letís not forget that cookís always had a poor record in NZ

Cookís only motivation seems to be personal records. People still think heíll become the leading run scorer in tests
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Kulli on March 30, 2018, 07:22:12 AM
Youíd imagine Cooks goal is one last Ashes.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Northern monkey on March 30, 2018, 07:41:55 AM
If heís had a poor record in nz, why do they play him??
I donít understand this mentality, maybe Iím too critical?

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Byo on March 30, 2018, 07:47:59 AM
Youíd imagine Cooks goal is one last Ashes.
I'd imagine at the moment it's double figures!!!!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Northern monkey on March 30, 2018, 08:04:10 AM
Whatís his avg over the last two years?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 30, 2018, 08:24:31 AM
See, told you e was wasted at seven...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 30, 2018, 08:24:41 AM
Cook got a double hundred in the last test series. we do not have many players who can score that amount of runs in one innings.

I saw his wicket today it looked bad for sure. He is one of those players not blessed with natural talent like KP or bell, he ismuch more like Gooch his mentor who did it thru sheer hard work and dedication.

I think myself he may retire after this series, I hope not I think he needs some technical advice again. He seems to look more at home in test matches here. We have a packed summer of cricket this year.

and there is the question who mig be better? Hameed could come in I suppose but not at in place of Cook surely. Does vince really still deserve to be picked?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: smilley792 on March 30, 2018, 08:26:03 AM
Commentators live said ďCook looks like heís beeen coached by Gary balanceĒ

Says a lot.


I went to bed when Vince got out, seems an up and down night for the English fans.

Is wood really that bad at batting broad gets in before him??
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 30, 2018, 08:36:34 AM
Cook got a double hundred in the last test series. we do not have many players who can score that amount of runs in one innings.

I saw his wicket today it looked bad for sure. He is one of those players not blessed with natural talent like KP or bell, he ismuch more like Gooch his mentor who did it thru sheer hard work and dedication.

I think myself he may retire after this series, I hope not I think he needs some technical advice again. He seems to look more at home in test matches here. We have a packed summer of cricket this year.

and there is the question who mig be better? Hameed could come in I suppose but not at in place of Cook surely. Does vince really still deserve to be picked?
A double hundred is irrelevant if either side of that one innings you are a walking wicket. We need consistency not the odd flash in the pan innings. Cook is hopeless against left arm fast bowling and after Boult's done it's Amir's turn...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 30, 2018, 08:41:51 AM
A double hundred is irrelevant if either side of that one innings you are a walking wicket. We need consistency not the odd flash in the pan innings. Cook is hopeless against left arm fast bowling and after Boult's done it's Amir's turn...
.

The cheat has said heís going to give up, sorry Ďmanage his workloadí .. so might not play.. lots of 2020 for him to spot fix remember
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Seniorplayer on March 30, 2018, 08:42:20 AM
Can't believe they've dropped Woakes before they even gave him a chance with the new ball, this is ridiculous.
Forum favourite
woakes  a test match failure 2016/17 on the sub continent in Australia and 0 for 126 in the first Test may have something to do with the decision or it maybe that his last few wickets have costing sixty runs each influenced the thinking of the selectors.....
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 30, 2018, 08:53:20 AM
.

The cheat has said heís going to give up, sorry Ďmanage his workloadí .. so might not play.. lots of 2020 for him to spot fix remember
You had me stumped there, in  all the Australian chaos totally slipped my mind regarding Amir's past woes.I thought Amir's plan was to play only away matches as to avoid the the cement pitches in the middle east?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Ajdal on March 30, 2018, 08:57:36 AM
.

The cheat has said heís going to give up, sorry Ďmanage his workloadí .. so might not play.. lots of 2020 for him to spot fix remember

Give him a break. Why all the hate? He did something very wrong and was handed a 5 years ban for it which is a severe enough punishment.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on March 30, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
Vince looks good then just gets out. A bit like me except I don't even look good!

I sometimes look good. Just not on a cricket field.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on March 30, 2018, 11:09:54 AM
See, told you e was wasted at seven...
See, told you he scores runs at 7... ;)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: jamielsn15 on March 30, 2018, 11:25:34 AM
Cook just looks cooked. 150-odd tests in a row, there's got to be some part of him that's telling him he's shot and knackered. I think if he takes a break now, he may not come back.  I wouldn't be surprised if he played the test summer then quit, or if he quit after this tour.  He is playing poorly at the mo but even so it leaves a massive gap 1-3 if he goes now.

Stoneman needs to start converting. 50s then out at the top of the order are a worse than Roots conversion rate at 4. I think Stoneman has shown enough to be given the start of the summer.

Vince needs to go. Simply not good enough. Root at 4, Malan at 5 or 3. For the english summer I'd like to see this given a go...

1. Cook or an opener off to a flyer
2. Hameed or an opener off to a flyer
3. Malan
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes (as an allrounder)
7. Foakes (wk)
8. Leach
9. Woakes/Wood
10. Broad
11. Anderson

Moeens needs to get his batting back on track and either come back as a batsman or really work on his spin game. He can't carry that role as per current form. Leach takes wickets in county cricket, give him a go.

Bairstow strengthens top five, but the it does leave a longer tail. I'd be asking the batsmen to do their jobs... five bowler attack with a traditional top six contributing with the bat. I wouldn't have 1, 2 or 3 as show ins. See who's going well in home conditions amd guve them a go, i don't care how old or young they are...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 30, 2018, 11:59:06 AM
I agree but swap wood/woakes and leach
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: jamielsn15 on March 30, 2018, 03:32:32 PM
I agree but swap wood/woakes and leach

Yeah, absolutely agree...
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: 19reading87 on March 30, 2018, 06:40:14 PM
Even though Foakes is on this tour as the 2nd keeper, donít be surprised to see Alex Davies from Lancs come heavily into the frame for the keeping spot in the summer
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Buzz on March 30, 2018, 06:50:14 PM
Jos will play in the summer.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 30, 2018, 06:50:55 PM
Even though Foakes is on this tour as the 2nd keeper, donít be surprised to see Alex Davies from Lancs come heavily into the frame for the keeping spot in the summer

How good of a keeper is Davies?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 30, 2018, 06:51:51 PM
Jos will play in the summer.

That would be a monster step back. He simply isnít a red ball cricketer
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 30, 2018, 06:53:44 PM
Jos will play in the summer.

Interesting development that on the forum  :)
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: petehosk on March 30, 2018, 08:51:49 PM
Cook is looking sad - he's lost that scoring feeling!
I think I am starting to agree with some on here now....every time he bats I get the feeling he'll get out any second!
So I would quite like to see.....

Hameed (he is looking more up for it this season in comparison to last)
Stoneman (he is doing ok and seems to have a gritty mentality - he just needs a few decent knocks to get his confidence going)
Cook (we don't seem to have another 3 so why not see how Cook does)
Roooot (he seems determined to bat at 4!)
Bairstow (he would surely be a better bet here)
Stokes
Keeper - Foakes/Buttler (take your pick - I would quite like to see Foakes as he is a fantastic gloveman and his batting is pretty decent these days)
Woakes (love the idea of having Stokes, Foakes, Woakes in the teamsheet)
Broad/Wood
Leach
Anderson

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 30, 2018, 09:32:23 PM
Even though Foakes is on this tour as the 2nd keeper, donít be surprised to see Alex Davies from Lancs come heavily into the frame for the keeping spot in the summer

Where would you bat Davies? Open and keep like at lancs or drop down the order?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: fros23 on March 30, 2018, 09:43:57 PM
Where would you bat Davies? Open and keep like at lancs or drop down the order?

Opening and Keeping is not going to work.  I've posted this before, only 4 players have scored over 1000 test runs batting in the top 3 whilst keeping, Sanga is the only one to average over 40.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 30, 2018, 10:22:23 PM
100 for bairstow

16 off 50odd balls and out for leach! Impressed with how he batted tbf
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Jlscarroll17 on March 30, 2018, 10:29:30 PM
Showed more promise with the bat than Broad who clearly doesn't cherish his wicket at all !!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 30, 2018, 10:35:11 PM
Broad should be number 11 whatever he had he lost quite a long time ago

Really impressed with leach and bairstow again left with the tail

I hope this tour is the last one he bats 7, if Vince did not play in this side Foakes in would not weaken the batting.foskes First class average is decent
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on March 30, 2018, 10:43:03 PM
YJB would be averaging near 50 if it were not for the times he has got out with us nine down playing ridiculous shots!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on March 30, 2018, 11:18:07 PM
#DropBroad
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: smilley792 on March 30, 2018, 11:32:28 PM
Itís one of them innings.

Broad is bowling gas(as quick as wood) itís moving both ways and is almost unplayable


He will then do nothing again till heís questioned around August time for doing sod all all summer.

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: potzy248 on March 30, 2018, 11:33:56 PM
Oh dear. And Williamson was close to gone as well.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on March 31, 2018, 07:36:48 AM
Feel sorry for England fans - that one performance a year broad puts in to keep himself in the side.

Good recovery from CdH and Watling
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on March 31, 2018, 07:59:52 AM
Was a lovely hot day.

Shame that we had them at 38/5 before that partnership, goes without saying that Broad/Anderson were the pick of the bowlers. Not sure why he didn't bring Stokes in earlier, albeit for a very brief spell. Leach did OK and you can see what they're trying to with Wood (who's giving it his all) but it's not worked out so far. Just seems silly to have dropped one of Overton/Woakes for Vince as far as I'm concerned.

Also that Williamson wicket was pure leg side filth, bloke must be gutted to not get himself in on what is a pretty docile deck.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on March 31, 2018, 08:05:07 AM
So how did Wood and Leach actually Bowl from those who watched it?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on March 31, 2018, 08:16:12 AM
Wood bowled OK, but as mentioned the plan was to just try bouncing them out. Wasn't really much out there for Leach, but there was one or two near misses
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Buzz on March 31, 2018, 08:19:53 AM
Bouncing out is the worst plan ever.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 31, 2018, 08:24:31 AM
What was Wood's pace like? Bouncers have worked against us but then again we are a bit rubbish.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: 19reading87 on March 31, 2018, 10:01:30 AM
What was Wood's pace like? Bouncers have worked against us but then again we are a bit rubbish.

I watched till 1AM and Broad was bowling quicker than Wood
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on March 31, 2018, 10:10:45 AM
That doesn't surprise me.Wood hasn't got the build to be a genuine out and out quick.He is skiddy.Offers more than Overton and Currant bun I guess.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: smilley792 on March 31, 2018, 10:35:13 AM
I watched till 1AM and Broad was bowling quicker than Wood

Iíd put that at the time.

Broad getting in the 140 last regularly yet wood often dipped to 135.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on March 31, 2018, 10:54:32 AM
Good to see Strokes bowling again. It is a worry that after Broad and Anderson the bowling attack just lacks that bite.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Big Mac on March 31, 2018, 03:46:24 PM
Iíd put that at the time.

Broad getting in the 140 last regularly yet wood often dipped to 135.

You don't understand, he bowled a few quick deliveries to Root in a T20 a couple of years ago so he's got to be an express pacer.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 31, 2018, 04:30:26 PM
Why on earth did we stop pitching it up!

Just see he highlights and we were all over them early on then bowled terribly to Waylon and dr grandhomme
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on March 31, 2018, 04:34:55 PM
Why on earth did we stop pitching it up!

Just see he highlights and we were all over them early on then bowled terribly to Waylon and dr grandhomme

Because everybody has been bouncing us out we think it's what we should be/need to be doing. Broad even said so in his end of day interview.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: alexhilly1492 on March 31, 2018, 09:53:54 PM
James Franklin just made an interesting comment re Vince: at county level teams worry about him in white ball cricket, in red ball they donít as they knowbheíll Nick off!

If thatís the case at county level he has no hope st test! Although I think we all know that!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on March 31, 2018, 10:24:55 PM
Let's hope the new selection process means the right people are consulted on selection. Asking the umpires was always a good move....obvious....but a good move

Vince does not get across his stumps enough so is a candidate for a nick behind all day long. Test class bowlers will just keep bowling it there
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on March 31, 2018, 11:54:18 PM
Wood's bowling is seriously below the required standards for Test cricket. With his supposed pace he should be blasting out someone like Boult, who battings like no one I've ever seen before
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on March 31, 2018, 11:58:50 PM
Something beautiful about boultís batting. Makes every club cricketer smile

Vital runs here none the less from the position we were in

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Big Mac on April 01, 2018, 12:03:05 AM
Mark Wood getting smashed around by a number 11...

Wood's bowling is seriously below the required standards for Test cricket. With his supposed pace he should be blasting out someone like Boult, who battings like no one I've ever seen before

Yep, it's why I laughed when people wanted him to play during the Ashes because of his extra pace. Even if you ignore the injury problems, he hasn't bowled properly quick in ages
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on April 01, 2018, 12:03:40 AM
This partnership has become really frustrating
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on April 01, 2018, 12:09:56 AM
We got a lead of 29. I'll leave it at that and head to bed.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on April 01, 2018, 12:12:25 AM
Donít see Cook surviving the 3 overs before lunch
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: billyb on April 01, 2018, 12:38:22 AM
Cook's feet movement looks a bit better today. 
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on April 01, 2018, 03:27:26 AM
James Vince has bantered his way towards a summer batting at #3
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Big Mac on April 01, 2018, 04:04:01 AM
James Vince has bantered his way towards a summer batting at #3

Watching him against the Dukes ball could be hilarious
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Manormanic on April 01, 2018, 07:11:22 AM
Cricinfo say it best - it's almost like he takes pride in giving it away.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: jamielsn15 on April 01, 2018, 07:36:01 AM
I don't think that's enough for Vince. I see whoever gets off to a flyer, or maybe Livingstone if he starts well, getting a go over Vince. He's not the answer at 3 or 5.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: smilley792 on April 01, 2018, 08:07:58 AM
Woke up to see Vince is currently Englandís top scorer.

This an April fools joke right? He really snicked of for 8 didnít he???
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on April 01, 2018, 08:11:44 AM
He batted well Iím convinced he is not a number 3 but a couple will want early season form, livingstone and maybe Hameed .

Root should bat 3 thou and take it on...without the captaincy although England will not change that
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on April 01, 2018, 08:13:01 AM
Cook should retire. Playing on just to try and break records is stupidity
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on April 01, 2018, 08:43:13 AM
Cook should retire. Playing on just to try and break records is stupidity

Cook can officially be called a flat track bully now. Unless itís an absolute road, he canít get any runs any more

Boultís bunny - getting him out for fun.

Pitch looks like itís expectedly flattened out, should be best for batting on day 4/5. Struggle to see a result.
Suspect England will look to get 500 to be safe
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: petehosk on April 01, 2018, 09:15:33 AM
I don't think Cook should retire just yet!
I think that his record as an opener is up there with the best - over 12000 Test runs at 46 average deserves some credit IMO.
Is he on form? There is no denying that he is NOT on form! Will he get back to form? We can't really answer that. We can only speculate and hope.
But I think with his past record, he has earned some slack.

Absolutely no doubt that Cook needs to visit his coach and work on his game after this series!
But there is also no doubt that Cook is a top class batsman. So the only questions he needs to answer is whether his lack of form is temporary and what to work on.
Even if it turns out that he has lost the grit to open the batting, then I still think he has the class to bat at 3.





 
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on April 01, 2018, 09:22:40 AM
Cook was a top class batsman currently he is not
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: petehosk on April 01, 2018, 09:26:24 AM
As I said, not a good idea to simply assume that he has lost all his class! "Form is temporary, class if permanent" is the saying I believe?
Has he lost ability or the grit/mentality to open? Maybe, maybe not. But it would be stupid to drop somone with Cook's record without investigating what is lacking!!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on April 01, 2018, 09:29:28 AM
Record is irrelevant Pete. It's about the here and now, Cook is a liability at present. Unless we play on flat pancakes in the summer, it's unlikely Cook will get any runs
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: six and out on April 01, 2018, 09:31:39 AM
If you look at Cook's career it has always gone in peaks and troffs but i don't think you can ever question his motivation otherwise he would never get back that peak.

Generally his slump in form has always been down do him not lining the ball up correctly - he gets his head in the wrong place and often means so he plays at balls he wouldn't normally which is a massive part of his game etc... and i think that is happening again.

Maybe he will decide he doesn't want to do the work to get it all back in order and maybe he will call it a day - but i do think he will carry on playing for Essex, which undoubtedly means he will score a load of early season runs to get him back in form etc....

I wrote this about Cook a while ago, I think it still holds true
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: petehosk on April 01, 2018, 09:38:56 AM
I wrote this about Cook a while ago, I think it still holds true

I wouldn't disagree with that. Let's see what occurs over the next month or two.
I still think that if we can find a decent opener (hopefully Hameed, as we already have too many Left handers!) then Cook could solve our number 3 problem.

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: edge on April 01, 2018, 09:48:44 AM
Catching up this morning, looks like Stoneman was using a butterfly https://twitter.com/SkyCricket/status/980291324929814528?s=19
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on April 01, 2018, 01:31:30 PM
I think Cook will play the summer and then retire. He's become a walking wicket now.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: billyb on April 01, 2018, 01:51:53 PM
Credit where credit is due, they were very good knocks from Stoneman and Vince. Anything from the top order feels like a miracle.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on April 01, 2018, 10:12:17 PM
So, how many are we going to get?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: FattusCattus on April 01, 2018, 10:13:22 PM
Also- has Stoneman done enough to stay in and has Vince not done enough?
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: petehosk on April 01, 2018, 10:29:19 PM
I give up trying to predict what England will get! They are so "hit or miss" these days that it's an impossible task!
I will probably be totally wrong but I reckon England to post 373.

Stoneman has shown some gritty batting and I feel he has done enough to get another few Tests.
Vince? He has shown glimpses of excellence but suspect he is keeping number 3 warm for someone like Hameed?

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: richthekeeper on April 01, 2018, 10:38:43 PM
I give up trying to predict what England will get! They are so "hit or miss" these days that it's an impossible task!
I will probably be totally wrong but I reckon England to post 373.

Stoneman has shown some gritty batting and I feel he has done enough to get another few Tests.
Vince? He has shown glimpses of excellence but suspect he is keeping number 3 warm for someone like Hameed?

Judging by Graham Thorpe's comments about Vince, he might have earned himself an extended stay in the squad
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on April 01, 2018, 10:44:21 PM
Stokes and bairstow need to get a shifty on late morning and go into nuke mode. We are going to need plenty to bowl them out in this.

That's why you really always need a spinner, you have to back the team to get enough runs have then have something to get them out with

Leach bowled pretty well and looks like he can turn it 'in he right area'
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: golders on April 01, 2018, 10:45:44 PM
I get the sense that Vince is a supremely gifted ball-player but is lacking a bit upstairs-I think that paddle-sweep with a leg-slip said it all! Hope I'm proved wrong because I enjoy watching the guy bat.Bumble seems to rate him and Nasser was talking him up so what do I know
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on April 01, 2018, 11:11:55 PM
This wicket is offering nothing. New ball is the only hope for wickets
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: billyb on April 01, 2018, 11:20:43 PM
Good stuff from Malan and Root, no troubles so far.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on April 02, 2018, 07:15:28 AM
Was great fun amongst the Barmy Army today in that last half hour, you could tell the players were appreciating the support which is great.

Tough ask for the bowlers tomorrow considering there's no way they're going to get 98 overs in from a 10:30am start
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Big Mac on April 02, 2018, 10:36:37 PM
Not a bad start
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on April 02, 2018, 10:38:18 PM
Work tommorow but I can't go to bed yet!! Come on lads!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on April 02, 2018, 10:39:29 PM
Might have a heart attack
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Big Mac on April 02, 2018, 11:10:02 PM
rofl what was that from Taylor
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Mister Le Chiffre on April 02, 2018, 11:22:16 PM
Funny when you pick a proper spinner he actually gives Root control. Unlike Moeen with his pies
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Number4 on April 03, 2018, 05:38:42 AM
Great fight from NZ
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on April 03, 2018, 05:57:05 AM
The tail showing some proper grit here. Wagner and sodhi to take it all the way

England probably regretting not declaring slightly earlier now
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: ppccopener on April 03, 2018, 06:03:41 AM
Yes absolutely and that wicket was it

Game over and a great effort from NZ to last the day

I posted yesterday we need plenty of time to get the wickets
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: csnew on April 03, 2018, 06:11:47 AM
Great series win, shame itís only a 2 test match series.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: thegowerwaft on April 03, 2018, 06:30:42 AM
Great stuff. Light fading and everyone round the bat. Like the end of a traditional Sunday game. All that was missing was a colt coming out to save the game... then cider and a BBQ.

England fan but well played NZ!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Big Mac on April 03, 2018, 06:39:22 AM
Funny when you pick a proper spinner he actually gives Root control. Unlike Moeen with his pies

It's almost like it's easier to be economical when the opposition is batting for a draw and a little harder when you've just been bowled out for 58 on the first day.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on April 03, 2018, 06:45:27 AM
A shambolic test winter overall, then.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: KD4 on April 03, 2018, 07:21:06 AM
We haven't won a test match the whole winter. That is ridiculous.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: Kulli on April 03, 2018, 07:35:47 AM
We haven't won a test match the whole winter. That is ridiculous.
A whole two winters
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: rickjames on April 03, 2018, 07:57:28 AM
Bangladesh was last winter, so yeah, one win, a few draws and go knows how many defeats. Can't fault them too much for today's efforts but this series was always an uphill battle after the first innings in Auckland.
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: 19reading87 on April 03, 2018, 09:17:34 AM
We haven't won a test match the whole winter. That is ridiculous.

Wenger out!!!

Sorry, I mean

Bayliss out!!
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on April 03, 2018, 04:33:38 PM
Itís sad not to have won any away tests but itís not a surprise. I am surprised we lost fairly conviningly to NZ in relative home conditions but it happens.

Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on April 03, 2018, 07:36:15 PM
Canít see many changes come the summer really unless Cook decides to retire then an opening slot comes free.

Only other option is Hameed comes in for Cook and he slips to 3 or vice versa and Vince is discarded totally from test cricket.

Ali is a bit of a loss as leach certainly the better bowler but his late order runs have been vital in the past. As with many great teams in all sports and at times out test side with these players has been a great side something has gone wrong now wether thatís the captain not being up to being a leader, the coach impact or whatever thatís the issue for me yes the players carry the can for an awful 18months really but behind the scenes something appears out of sorts
Title: Re: England test tour to New Zealand
Post by: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on April 03, 2018, 07:40:56 PM
Canít see many changes come the summer really unless Cook decides to retire then an opening slot comes free.

Only other option is Hameed comes in for Cook and he slips to 3 or vice versa and Vince is discarded totally from test cricket.

Ali is a bit of a loss as leach certainly the better bowler but his late order runs have been vital in the past. As with many great teams in all sports and at times out test side with these players has been a great side something has gone wrong now wether thatís the captain not being up to being a leader, the coach impact or whatever thatís the issue for me yes the players carry the can for an awful 18months really but behind the scenes something appears out of sorts

Look back before the last 18 months. The warning signs where there that this group werenít upto it. Sure there were some good wins but when you look closer at the oppos, wickets played on you see some weak teams and when the batting comes off.. roads ..

Thatís always been the problem with this group of players, they are good at beating crap (Aus in 2015 were dire) and also mercurial when tracks are flat and they can tee off