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Author Topic: The Mankad - opinions?  (Read 2564 times)

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Kulli

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2019, 10:41:46 AM »

Personally I think as a bowler/fielder you only really notice a chance for this if someone is backing up 'too' aggressively, if thats the case I'd have no issuse mankading them (in a competative game anyway). As a bowler I'd be worried if I was noticving a batsman backed up a few cam too far as I hit my delivery stride.

I think th4e game always evolves over time, and this is no seen different as compared to 15-20 years ago. Much like sweeping etc, when I was a kid in the 90's there were still plenty of umpires that would trigger you any chance they got if you played those sort of shots that they didn't consider 'cricket', now you see then on a daily basis.



I have previously given multiple 'warnings' without ever actually mankading someone but I think having through about and discussed it that i would now, espoecially as we play a lot more shorter format games where run 'stealing' can be game changing.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 10:43:22 AM by Kulli »
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SLA

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2019, 10:54:12 AM »

Personally I think as a bowler/fielder you only really notice a chance for this if someone is backing up 'too' aggressively, if thats the case I'd have no issuse mankading them (in a competative game anyway). As a bowler I'd be worried if I was noticving a batsman backed up a few cam too far as I hit my delivery stride.

I think th4e game always evolves over time, and this is no seen different as compared to 15-20 years ago. Much like sweeping etc, when I was a kid in the 90's there were still plenty of umpires that would trigger you any chance they got if you played those sort of shots that they didn't consider 'cricket', now you see then on a daily basis.



I have previously given multiple 'warnings' without ever actually mankading someone but I think having through about and discussed it that i would now, espoecially as we play a lot more shorter format games where run 'stealing' can be game changing.

As far as I'm concerned, in any league fixture, any mode of dismissal is a viable option, either for me or against me, and no-one should have any complaints.

Obviously in a friendly match, a hopelessly one-sided game, or when you're playing against kids or inexperienced cricketers, you might try to tread that line between being generous without being patronising. That applies to choosing not to execute stumpings or run outs, and deliberately not appealing for lbws.

But its the players right to decide this, not the umpire. The umpire is the servant of the game, there at the captains' discretion, and should uphold the laws as he is instructed else he will be removed from the field.


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Chompy9760

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2019, 12:09:21 PM »

Wow!  Many thanks to all of you who have contributed to this thread.  I really do appreciate all of your input and advice, as there have been many excellent points made.

Yes, it's Junior cricket, and I am big on making sure its a friendly, respectful, fun (dare I say traditional?!) environment, but I refuse to let opposition batsmen take advantage of my team, thinking they are above consequences.  I'll keep you posted on how it turns out - we may not meet those two teams from now on, but if we do, we will be prepared.

It seems that attitudes to the Mankad haven't changed much over the last 40 years.  Quite a few divided opinions, but it was a question well worth asking.

Thanks!
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SLA

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #48 on: March 12, 2019, 12:32:09 PM »

Wow!  Many thanks to all of you who have contributed to this thread.  I really do appreciate all of your input and advice, as there have been many excellent points made.

Yes, it's Junior cricket, and I am big on making sure its a friendly, respectful, fun (dare I say traditional?!) environment, but I refuse to let opposition batsmen take advantage of my team, thinking they are above consequences.  I'll keep you posted on how it turns out - we may not meet those two teams from now on, but if we do, we will be prepared.

It seems that attitudes to the Mankad haven't changed much over the last 40 years.  Quite a few divided opinions, but it was a question well worth asking.

Thanks!

I encourage you to teach your juniors to see the mankad as a legitimate dismissal in the same way as a stumping, and teach them both how to do it properly and how to avoid getting mankaded.

In the spirit of openness, you might want to give opposing coaches a pre-season email mentioning that this is your philosophy.

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Real Munson

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #49 on: March 12, 2019, 01:19:37 PM »

I encourage you to teach your juniors to see the mankad as a legitimate dismissal in the same way as a stumping, and teach them both how to do it properly and how to avoid getting mankaded.

In the spirit of openness, you might want to give opposing coaches a pre-season email mentioning that this is your philosophy.



Using your line of thinking about mankad'ing, why the need to be open about it then? if it's in the laws of the game, then surely no need to have any spirit of openness?
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SLA

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #50 on: March 12, 2019, 01:44:17 PM »

Using your line of thinking about mankad'ing, why the need to be open about it then? if it's in the laws of the game, then surely no need to have any spirit of openness?



Other coaches might not share the same opinion. Of course, this means that they are wrong whereas you are right, and absolutely you shouldn't bow to any pressure they might put on you to give warnings or any other ridiculous notions, but sometimes being considerate is more important than being right, and if a quick email prevents a blazing row in the middle of a game, then its worth the effort.

Plus, it might encourage them to follow suit, which means even more kids are being taught a correct understanding of the rules, which at the end of the day is why we're all here.
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edge

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #51 on: March 12, 2019, 01:53:49 PM »

Using your line of thinking about mankad'ing, why the need to be open about it then? if it's in the laws of the game, then surely no need to have any spirit of openness?
People do get their knickers in a twist about it. Normally people who wouldn't know the spirit of cricket if it slapped them round the face, in my experience! I've yet to hear a good argument for not running players out at the non-striker's end though. Have played in indoor leagues where it's been actively encouraged - funnily enough no batsmen stole yards then.
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blindowl

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #52 on: March 12, 2019, 01:56:55 PM »

I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread.

Interesting views from both sides and good healthy debate.

Personally, if it happened to me or a team mate I would probably feel annoyed in the moment but also have to accept that its valid.
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RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #53 on: March 12, 2019, 04:45:58 PM »

This is the part of the anti-mankad 'spirit of cricket' thing that's always really confused me - why is it ok to try and steal yards, to cheat by running before the bowler has bowled, but it isn't ok to run someone out? I get the spirit of cricket thing, good sportsmanship makes the game better. To my mind running before the bowler's let go is far more against the spirit of the game than running someone out at the non-strikers end is. The line's there for a reason, if you're on the wrong side of it you get run out/stumped/no-balled and it's entirely your own fault, even if your opponent has been Keemo Paul level sneaky. No different from a keeper waiting for a batsman to lift their foot for a stumping, as others have mentioned.

Spirit of cricket is meaningless (believe me, I wish it wasnt).

If people played to the spirit you wouldnt have sledging, you wouldnt have square leg appealing for lbws.. you wouldnt have people appealing simply because it hit the pad etc etc

Why is one way seen as grubby and yet these others are part of the game
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strang

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #54 on: March 13, 2019, 08:15:01 AM »

A warning and then out.
Bowler is only allowed to get you out as part of the bowling action.
That's what I was taught at quite a sport reknown school in Australia in the 80s.
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SLA

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2019, 08:46:56 AM »

A warning and then out.
Bowler is only allowed to get you out as part of the bowling action.
That's what I was taught at quite a sport reknown school in Australia in the 80s.

Huh, both of which are wrong.
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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #56 on: March 13, 2019, 09:44:32 AM »

I'll have to go back in time and tell the Christian Brothers.
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SD

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #57 on: March 13, 2019, 04:21:43 PM »

Wow!  Many thanks to all of you who have contributed to this thread.  I really do appreciate all of your input and advice, as there have been many excellent points made.

Yes, it's Junior cricket, and I am big on making sure its a friendly, respectful, fun (dare I say traditional?!) environment, but I refuse to let opposition batsmen take advantage of my team, thinking they are above consequences.  I'll keep you posted on how it turns out - we may not meet those two teams from now on, but if we do, we will be prepared.

It seems that attitudes to the Mankad haven't changed much over the last 40 years.  Quite a few divided opinions, but it was a question well worth asking.

Thanks!

I certainly think that there has been a change in the general attitude towards junior cricket from when I started playing 30 years ago.  There is a generally a more competitive win at all costs culture that has gradually developed which I certainly don't see as a positive.  I am a Club Chairman and from my perspective I am not too concerned whether our u9s win their league this year, success to me is how many of them are still playing in 10-15 years time.  We run 5 senior teams with at least 95% of those that play in those sides being former or current junior players at the Club so it is vital that we keep players interested in the game.  It does worry me that the spirit now present in junior cricket isn't conducive to that.

To use one example local to me, the ECB encourages leagues to allow girls to play up to 2 years below their actual age.  For most people this is a fairly sensible allowance so that girls can play in games that are competitive compared to their skills if they aren't at the general level of male players in their own age group.  However, there are some very good female players who would ruin a game if they played below their actual age group particularly given that girls and generally taller than boys in the lower age groups.  Most Clubs are sensible about this by not putting county standard girls into games far below the standard they can play at.  Unfortunately, one Club decided to stick to the letter of the league rules and put their county standard girls into every game they could play in (including putting a girl who plays every Saturday in one of the Club's senior sides into an U11 soft ball game).  The Club ended the season winning a number of junior leagues in this way, which has resulted in the league rules being changed by the County Board with the result that sensible clubs can no longer use their discretion.  Of course, the Club in question has acted entirely within the league rules but not in the spirit of them which ruined those games for those involved.
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RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #58 on: March 13, 2019, 04:57:47 PM »

I certainly think that there has been a change in the general attitude towards junior cricket from when I started playing 30 years ago.  There is a generally a more competitive win at all costs culture that has gradually developed which I certainly don't see as a positive.  I am a Club Chairman and from my perspective I am not too concerned whether our u9s win their league this year, success to me is how many of them are still playing in 10-15 years time.  We run 5 senior teams with at least 95% of those that play in those sides being former or current junior players at the Club so it is vital that we keep players interested in the game.  It does worry me that the spirit now present in junior cricket isn't conducive to that.

To use one example local to me, the ECB encourages leagues to allow girls to play up to 2 years below their actual age.  For most people this is a fairly sensible allowance so that girls can play in games that are competitive compared to their skills if they aren't at the general level of male players in their own age group.  However, there are some very good female players who would ruin a game if they played below their actual age group particularly given that girls and generally taller than boys in the lower age groups.  Most Clubs are sensible about this by not putting county standard girls into games far below the standard they can play at.  Unfortunately, one Club decided to stick to the letter of the league rules and put their county standard girls into every game they could play in (including putting a girl who plays every Saturday in one of the Club's senior sides into an U11 soft ball game).  The Club ended the season winning a number of junior leagues in this way, which has resulted in the league rules being changed by the County Board with the result that sensible clubs can no longer use their discretion.  Of course, the Club in question has acted entirely within the league rules but not in the spirit of them which ruined those games for those involved.

Parents only care about winning ... kids dont really care as long as its fun .... clubs love the income that comes from kids... winning brings more parents.. more kids.. more subs and bar takings...

Win at all costs is sadly here to stay but will result is less enjoyment and less participation overall
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Byo

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #59 on: March 13, 2019, 06:01:41 PM »

Parents only care about winning ... kids dont really care as long as its fun .... clubs love the income that comes from kids... winning brings more parents.. more kids.. more subs and bar takings...

Win at all costs is sadly here to stay but will result is less enjoyment and less participation overall
I have been coaching our youth teams for the last 7 seasons, and have only witnessed this a couple of times. Every match is played with the idea of every kid getting a go, and other coaches have the same philosophy.

Whilst the extra income is great, it is definitely not the main reason for running a youth section at my club (or others we play). It is run with the intention of keeping the club going in the future.  Maybe we are lucky in Bristol that the majority of clubs have the same idea and all other places are win at all costs but I doubt it, and think you are making a bit of a generalisation.
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