Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
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The 22nd Yard

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Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
« on: May 22, 2013, 06:49:00 PM »

Apologies for the recent absence. With exams and a half marathon to prepare for it had to be done!

This is an in depth look at the previous banishment of all Pakistani players from the IPL, as well as digging into the extreme amount of Australian participation...

http://wp.me/p380Xy-8D
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fros23

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Re: Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 07:06:37 PM »

I'm enjoying the IPL this year, but you are right there are far too many average Australians in the squads.  I would quite like to see more Englishmen in there but can't see how they can work it around the county game at the moment.  We can push the start of the test summer back but we could really do with our test guys having some early season games rather than hopping off the plane from India straight into a test match.  It's all about availability and cost compared to the Aussies as they are available for the whole tournament unlike our test guys.  Ben Laughlin went for 20k and I remember Rikki Clarke saying that he had to put his base price as 200k because otherwise he would lose money once you take in to account agent fees and paying Warwickshire for being away for 6 weeks.  Neither of those 2 are marque name signings that will guarantee runs or wickets so its a no brainer that you would take Laughlin for a tenth of the price.
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The 22nd Yard

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Re: Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2013, 07:20:38 PM »

Do you not think the IPL could be good preparation? A lot of games, almost guaranteed good weather and a least one international standard bowler per game? Eoin Morgan seems to have done alright, I think if Root and Bairstow didn't do well he may get the nod for the Ashes purely on IPL and Champions Trophy form.

I didn't quite realise just how little the English players leave the tournament with, I wondered why Bopara and Prior had such high base prices in this auction.
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fros23

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Re: Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2013, 07:29:02 PM »

I think it's the difference in conditions that's the main problem.  If the IPL was being played in New Zealand then the difference wouldn't be too bad but the contrast in conditions between India and England in  May is just too much in my view. 

I see Watson got himself in and then out without going onto fifty again today, does that remind you of anyone?
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PedalsMcgrew

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Re: Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2013, 07:34:43 PM »

Until the IPL gets it's house in order re: corruption I reckon England and Pakistan's players would do well to steer well clear! I cannot agree with regard to it being decent preparation for an English summer, the quality in the IPL is iffy, the conditions have no relevance to those in England and, as was mentioned the other day most players in the IPL return to their clubs overweight and out of nick. This last statement was part of what set David Warner off on his little melt down the other day but it is a view shared by the ACB......at least according to the journalist targeted by Warner. 
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fros23

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Re: Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2013, 07:43:11 PM »

In terms of the quality being iffy, I can agree that some of the unheralded Indians are not of the best quality but is that any different to the county circuit?  If guys in India switch on for a county game I doubt they are going to be that impressed watching Gareth Cross, Michael Rippon or Joe Sayers for example.

 As for the form and fitness I don't know the ins and outs of it but I can imagine that the likes of Glen 'Big Show' Maxwell and Coulter-Nile could treat it as a 6 week bender seeing how little game time they have got!
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The 22nd Yard

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Re: Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2013, 07:49:07 PM »

I agree with Fros, George Bailey couldn't buy a run in the Australian State season and breezed to 90 odd against a Leicestershire bowling attack with an average age of about 22 when Hoggard became injured. The base standard is similar, but the IPL has more international stars which could be better preparation.

It's nice to think it may come down to conditions and standard, but sadly we all know it will be corruption and money that decides participation...

Please Fros, don't compare my batting to Shane Watson, anything but that!
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Manormanic

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Re: Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2013, 07:58:13 AM »

I didn't quite realise just how little the English players leave the tournament with, I wondered why Bopara and Prior had such high base prices in this auction.

From whatever they are paid you have to subtract:
The equivalent loss from their county/ECB central salaries, which are anywhere from 7-20k per month
The 10% that they are mandated to pay their county
a circa 10% agents fee
Income tax at 40%.

So if a player on a top end county salary, let alone an ECB one, was listed at 100'000 for 6 weeks, and assuming they had an accountant good enough to get them away with NI payments as a sole contractor on top, they'd only make in the region of 25'000, as against 15'000 that they would make at home anyway - once expenses come off the top of that, they actually lose money.
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iand123

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Re: Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2013, 10:32:15 AM »

These blog posts never work for me, says it cannot load the URL
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The 22nd Yard

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Re: Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2013, 11:02:04 AM »

From whatever they are paid you have to subtract:
The equivalent loss from their county/ECB central salaries, which are anywhere from 7-20k per month
The 10% that they are mandated to pay their county
a circa 10% agents fee
Income tax at 40%.

Cheers Manormanic, thats a good summarisation.

I'm guessing as it's the Aussies off season, that's why it makes it financially viable for them. I do feel the English players are missing out as it would be a great experience, there probably isn't a way of getting around that issue by the looks of it. Unless possibly the counties were subsidised by the ECB? Highly doubt that would happen though.
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tim2000s

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Re: Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2013, 11:06:33 AM »

Cheers Manormanic, thats a good summarisation.

I'm guessing as it's the Aussies off season, that's why it makes it financially viable for them. I do feel the English players are missing out as it would be a great experience, there probably isn't a way of getting around that issue by the looks of it. Unless possibly the counties were subsidised by the ECB? Highly doubt that would happen though.
They already are to a great extent. More money shouldn't be thrown into that pot.
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Manormanic

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Re: Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2013, 11:21:19 AM »

I'm guessing as it's the Aussies off season, that's why it makes it financially viable for them. I do feel the English players are missing out as it would be a great experience, there probably isn't a way of getting around that issue by the looks of it. Unless possibly the counties were subsidised by the ECB? Highly doubt that would happen though.

A combination of that, different tax laws etc.

How much English players are missing out is debateable though - Morgan apart most don't even get a game when they are there, so they might only be missing out on the cultural experience which has some value, but not much in cricketing terms.  Furthermore, the standard of most of the bowling, a few star names apart, is so weak that any batsman going would end up with an inflaterd view of his own self worth.
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fros23

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Re: Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2013, 07:01:00 PM »

I don't think that you can call the quality of the bowling seriously weak, sure there are some poor spells and some lesser bowlers but compare it to what Lancashire served up against Hampshire last night.  I watched Wayne White, Stephen Parry and Oliver Newby serve up plenty of filth last night. 

Mumbai have Malinga, Johnson, Harbahjan, Ojha, Kulkarni and Pollard.
CSK have A.Morkel, Bravo, Morris, M Sharma, Ashwin and Jadeja.
Sunrisers had Steyn, I sharma, Mishra, K Sharma Sammy and Perrera.
 Compare that to what Lancashire put out last night - White, Hogg, Newby, Kerrigan, Parry and Croft.

Ok its not exactly like for like with overseas restrictions but you can't tell me that all three of those Ipl bowling line ups are not stronger.

There are lesser players in all competitions for every Gayle and Dhoni there is a lesser Indian in the IPL.  For every James Tayor and Chris Woakes there is a Wayne White or Michael Thornley in the county game.

If the IPL fell outside of the county and international season for England then I don't think we would really moan about the quality of it and we would just enjoy it for what it is.  But because it crosses over with our season there is always that conflict and the traditionals amongst us are always going to say that we prefer our guys playing in the championship rather than the IPL.
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PedalsMcgrew

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Re: Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2013, 07:11:52 PM »

For as long as test cricket is the pinnacle of the sport then the English county season will have more relevance to player development than the IPL. As it stands the IPL is on extremely shaky foundations and I would not be surprised if the whole thing came falling down. The corruption and greed is incredible.

If the likes of a James Taylor or an Alex Hales did secure an IPL contract then how much game time would they actually get? How many overs would they face in total? 30? 40? How many of those overs will be bowled by world class operators? 10%? 20%? if your lucky? Compare this to a county season of constant cricket surrounded by top coaches and a professional support network and I can't see any plus points for the IPL other than money.

The IPL has already started to kill off Test cricket in India and the West Indies so why should we want that to happen in the UK?
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fros23

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Re: Another IPL controversy - Pakistan
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2013, 07:19:47 PM »

I agree, I would much rather see our young English guys playing in the championship over the IPL as I will always prefer test matches over T20 as the pinnacle of the game.  If the IPL were played in Feb and March then that would give them the chance to play both if selected, I can't see it happening though as the BCCI will always do what they want.

I suppose it depends what players want to do with their career, James Taylor obviously wants to play test cricket so wont and shouldnt go to the IPL, what do the likes of Luke Wright, Michael Lumb, maybe even Alex Hales want from their career?  If they don't think they will be a test match regular is it better for them to play IPL to aid Englands T20 side?
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