Advertise on CBF

Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)  (Read 1395 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

manno

  • First XI Captain
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 199
  • Trade Count: (0)
A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)
« on: January 01, 2017, 11:29:57 PM »

Gday all! Ive been looking at getting a few part-mades to have a go at butchering over here in OZ. After reading all of the SAF bats ask a bat-maker threads i quickly realised that most of the meaty questions, asking to share genuine knowledge or bat making technique/process were either not answered or replied with a "send me a pm". The session with the team at Bradbury was much more helpful but i still have a couple more questions. For now at least...

In terms of shaping.

Can i make any shape i please? Am i free to shape up a bat that resembles another existing profile? Probably a stupid question as ive seen on here that bat-makers are happy to "copy" a profile or make a "replica" of a much loved bat. I dunno, i just feel odd about shaping up a bat to replicate another, but at the same time i realise that a lot of bats share a very similar profile, as is the nature of a good simple bat design. What are peoples thoughts on this?

Finishing..... What grade of sandpaper do most here start with and then finish with? And should i apply a wax (what type) and then buff with a loose leaf cotton polishing wheel?

Also, any idea where i could get a horses shin bone?

I hopefully look forward to any replies, not limited to these questions. Feel free to add any other tips or pointers that you think might be helpful!

Cheers
Manny
Logged

tom line

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 770
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2017, 11:42:41 PM »

Not a bat maker as such but,
Of course you can make any shape you want, if everyone avoided copying other shapes then the industry would never have progressed. If you start claiming it's completely original shape created by you it's different but no issues in copying another shape
Grit of sandpaper depends really how fine a cut your tools take out, I know some bat makers use finishing planes that almost negate the need for sanding at all as they take such a fine cut and then they start with P240 (White willow Cricket) and others (probably the most common) would be around the P80-120 grit mark as their first stage of sanding. Most bat makers will go from there starting grit 120 then 240 then 320 or 400 by hand to finish it off. Some like Salix will do a lot more some may skip anything above 240 all together. A lot use white chalk based polishing compounds such as HYFIN with a double stitched mop, others use beeswax like bat wax and buff by hand with a cloth or a loose leaf wheel. What I've found is if you have a good professional set up with a good mop that has a large surface area, a compound like HYFIN is best, but by the sounds of it for you just making a few a wax product and hand polishing or small mop will work best
As for a horses shin bone, a local butchers is your best bet and you'd have to boil it to clean all excess meat off and then soak it in linseed oil, alternatively any hard wood would work as a bone, Chris King at Gray Nics uses beech as a bone as willow is so soft.
Hope this helps
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 12:00:43 AM by tom line »
Logged

manno

  • First XI Captain
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 199
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2017, 12:18:31 AM »

Thanks tom! Certainly wont be any claims being made! Sounds like no hard and fast rules when it comes to finishing so i guess i could just finish as fine as i can manage. I do happen to have a decent bench grinder so i could try put on a mop. I'll google that HYFIN stuff, but hows it differ to the bees wax? Also, is it fine to use the bees wax with the mop? And I'll keep the timber "boning" option in mind if i cant find or make a suitable natural bone. Thanks again mate, sure does help!
Logged

tom line

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 770
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2017, 12:29:14 AM »

The HYFIN stuff is a dry chalk based polishing compound, it needs a mop that will melt it to work a bench grinder or lathe would work with a mop fitted where as beeswax is much easier to use with a basic set up, using a mop with beeswax nothing wrong with it, not essential but no need to have it anywhere near as high rev as you don't want to completely melt the wax instead of buffing it up you want some heat created but not lots.
And no, finishing is very much what is comfortable and works for you. What sander will you be using?
Logged

manno

  • First XI Captain
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 199
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2017, 01:04:58 AM »

Ok mate, got ya! Ive only got a small palm sander -



The rest i suppose i do by hand?
Logged

jamesisapayne

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 605
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Best bowling: 8-3-15-6 Best batting: 111
Re: A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2017, 06:42:16 AM »

Some great advice there Tom.

Your palm sander should be ok manno just be careful to work your way through several grades of paper to get a smooth finish and not leave any lines in the timber. A random orbital sander is good at this but not essential, your palm sander should work fine just keep it moving over the wood evenly to avoid creating low spots.

Regarding the polishing compound, I use Vonax Beige myself with a couple of G quality mops together (5" total width) on a motor and it gives the bat a nice glossy finish with a slightly coloured finish. I've had a quick look at HYFIN tom and it's listed everywhere as a metal polishing compound? Are you sure it's the same stuff other batmakers use. Not trying to be awkward just genuinely want to know as I've sent H4L a couple of PMs about the stuff they use which I've read Matt mention on here is a white chalk based polish but haven't heard back.

Also, while you might be able to get a horse's shin bone, I believe that makers like Julian Millichamp, Laver and Wood etc that use them soak them in linseed oil for 6 months+ before use so might not be realistic for the amount of work you'll be doing manno.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 06:44:18 AM by jamesisapayne »
Logged

Australian fast bowler

  • Club Cricketer
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 119
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2017, 08:21:44 AM »

Hyfin is indeed correct.

I use it on refurbs

it is a stainless steel polish and is amazing stuff. I was told to use it by Laver& wood and Ulysses. I use it on a car buffer and it works perfect. I find best results if i put the hyfin in the sun about 15-20 mins before my refurb as it goes into the buffing pad a lot better
Logged

tom line

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 770
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2017, 08:24:09 AM »

It is as @Australian fast bowler said the stuff that Laver use. And I'm sure others use it as well, I've seen fantail cricket in New Zealand use it along with a few others.
If possible you'd be better off with a random orbit sander as it would be easier to avoid small 'pig tail' sanding swirls but it's not essential. Just worth doing a but of hand sanding at the end to make sure these aren't a problem
Logged

manno

  • First XI Captain
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 199
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2017, 09:33:38 AM »

Thanks for the tips guys ill keep an eye on those sanding marks. And i might have to amputate now to get that bone ready!!! :) Any idea what the linseed bath might do?

Does the Hyfin impart any colour onto the willow?

Keep the tips/tricks coming guys!!
Logged

Seniorplayer

  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3768
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2017, 10:42:23 AM »

Here's my finishing tips  Each higher grade grit you use will remove the marks left by the previous grit.
                                    For a nice smooth  Finish to   Your bat use a specialist finishing paper such  as
                                    KLINGSPOR PL 31 P 320 Finishing paper.     
                                         
                   



                                                   
 
Logged

tom line

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 770
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2017, 10:54:33 AM »

HYFIN won't give any real colour change at all neither will any other chalk based compound. Beeswax might give the bat a lightly coloured look slightly darker than raw white willow but not much
Logged

Northern monkey

  • International Captain
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1888
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2017, 10:59:14 AM »

Jobs a lot easier if you can get a random orbital sander
Shape and profile wise, I try to go off pick up and feel
I'm not a fan of big edges,concaving, or big spines
I'd much rather have the wood spread evenly over the profile, and constantly check pick up and feel.
Keep plenty of wood in the toe to avoid splitting.

The best Saf bats I've seen,(I live about a mile from Andys place) have all been a classic profile.
I know he was a fan of the offset edge too

And Toms bats are probably the best finished bats I've ever seen

Have fun shaping some bats up
Logged

tom line

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 770
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2017, 11:58:02 AM »

Another thing I'd say regarding the sander, although the palm sander should do fine it will take a fair amount of time, I'm aware it's a festool one so probably better than any orbital I've used at removing wood but still you will need to be very patient

A random orbit sander will remove willow quicker and more efficiently than a normal orbital sander and you will probably find that more grits are readily available for it especially finer grits than a palm sander. They are also normally far cheaper
Logged

sarg

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 971
  • Trade Count: (0)
    • Cricket Bat Info
Re: A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2017, 12:41:50 PM »

I am have purchased most of this gear and everything above is what I arrived at after trial and error.

Went through three types of palm Sanders before finally buying a random orbital sander and it definitely minimizes pigtails. White metal polish is terrific for finishing. I bought most of my gear cheap at bumming and just adapted it to suit as ots jist a hobby and i add as I can. A ozito belt sander/150 mm finder was adapted to fit two 150 mm polishing buff wheels. Works well and I finish the final buff by hand.

Buy bees wax from health food shops that sell honey or bee keepers that sell honey on the side of the road. Handy for tooth cavities until you can get into the dentist im told too.

Another tip I got that is cost effective is using a section of a swimming noodle for hand sanding concaved areas on bats.
Logged
Don't ask me how much each run costs me....

DorsetDan

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 563
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: A couple of questions for the bat-makers :)
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2017, 01:14:27 PM »

Such a small detail but I love the swimming noodle tip, thanks :)

Edit: I guess a spare bit of pipe lagging could be even cheaper
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 02:11:36 PM by DorsetDan »
Logged
Pages: [1] 2
 

Advertise on CBF