Advertise on CBF

Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6]

Author Topic: Hampshire League in trouble...  (Read 2843 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

LateBloomer

  • First XI Captain
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 258
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2018, 01:06:03 PM »

I think youre missing the point too. This is amateur Cricket where while winning is what All 22 players should be going for, the win, its about participation and enjoyment equally.the game has the ability to play a format which caters for more skill sets, more tactical know how and allows more drama to unfold,as well as a format for the more aggressive players. So play 18ganes a year, half for the hitters, half for the others.. that way all tastes and styles are catered for.



Whilst this half and half theory might sound fair, and I wouldn't be totally against it personally, I suspect that if the cricket playing public were asked which format they preferred to play the vast majority would choose win/lose. Certainly wouldn't be 50/50.
Logged

WalkingWicket37

  • International Superstar
  • *******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 11723
  • Trade Count: (+26)
Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2018, 01:43:05 PM »

Whilst this half and half theory might sound fair, and I wouldn't be totally against it personally, I suspect that if the cricket playing public were asked which format they preferred to play the vast majority would choose win/lose. Certainly wouldn't be 50/50.

Our 1st XI had a season (yes, just one) in the top division where they had to play timed games, and they all hated them! "The day is too long and it's a bit boring" was the general consensus
Logged

mo_town

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 511
  • Trade Count: (+1)
Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #77 on: February 09, 2018, 03:16:35 PM »

I think youre missing the point too. This is amateur Cricket where while winning is what All 22 players should be going for, the win, its about participation and enjoyment equally.the game has the ability to play a format which caters for more skill sets, more tactical know how and allows more drama to unfold,as well as a format for the more aggressive players. So play 18ganes a year, half for the hitters, half for the others.. that way all tastes and styles are catered for.

Its not all about the young kid either, young kids dont run teams generally or fetch and carry etc. Its not all about what young kids want. Its about what is best for all styles of player so you attract and keep ALL styles of players. If you only play shorter and shorter formats in win lose you merely keep cutting the audience youre appealing to.

As stated, for every young kid you attract (who generally will be aggressive hitter) youll lose a young kid who cant or doesnt want to do that. Then you have the adults who age who cant score at said rates either and dont enjoy said formats.. so you lose another potentially

One format isnt the answer. Leagues need to play half and half to cater for all styles and tastes but also to ensure the best all round teams win leagues.

Based on my experience, the only people I have seen appreciate and enjoy timed cricket are the 40+ players as it is similar to the way they have played cricket all their life...they do not like to be bothered about run rates etc. I agree that it isnt just about the youngsters, but for the greater good, the game has to evolve at the lower levels too. We continue with these archaic methods and then wonder why young players are falling out of love with cricket.
Logged

six and out

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 889
  • Trade Count: (0)
    • MKCC website
Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #78 on: February 09, 2018, 04:17:15 PM »

Based on my experience, the only people I have seen appreciate and enjoy timed cricket are the 40+ players as it is similar to the way they have played cricket all their life...they do not like to be bothered about run rates etc. I agree that it isnt just about the youngsters, but for the greater good, the game has to evolve at the lower levels too. We continue with these archaic methods and then wonder why young players are falling out of love with cricket.

You say that..... and i do agree to a certain degree....... but you can't loose sight of is that if anyone wants to get anywhere in cricket, they have to learn how to play timed cricket.

As you get older and if you want the standard to get better the games get longer..... that is a fact of cricket.

You can say all you like about 20/20 and 30/40 over cricket but no kid has ever gone straight from there to playing for England or even County cricket.... you play long format timed games 1st to see if you can cut it.
Logged

ppccopener

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5416
  • Trade Count: (+6)
Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #79 on: February 09, 2018, 06:27:39 PM »

The leagues are changing formats, some quicker than others it seems. In Middlesex we move to half 45 over games win or lose for the first time (in Middlesex championship) , the remaining games you can have a draw(100 overs)

It's a challenge for older players myself included to adapt when the cricket we were shown to play at a young age was defending your wicket(time cricket)

In fact in my team most of the younger guys look to hit the ball like they see on the TV, and defence is nowhere to be seen

As I am learning from them they come to me for defensive advice which suits me fine. It's up to me to slight change and adapt to a shorter game.

The question of how you develop a young bowler or batsman as the games get shorter has no answer I can see. As you move up in standard the bowlers get better, there simply cannot be hit for runs all the time.

So.....there is a balance to be had, no one facing decent bowlers in Div 1 where I play will survive and do well without a defence.

I think myself games will get shorter, maybe down to 35 overs a side in a couple of years.

The ECB have to do something as younger guys flood away from cricket, if this is the answer so be it.

No one wants the game to die, and in the event doing something is better than nothing, this is it and we are going to need to get used to it.

Our club started a 20/20 league in 2017 with 6 other club after work midweek and it was very popular.This at the same time Sunday cricket we could barely get a team out. We have 4 league 11's, no one wanted to play Sunday's.

Logged

edge

  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3212
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #80 on: February 09, 2018, 07:32:55 PM »

I've never played time cricket in a league situation, only the odd game back at school, so forgive me if I'm being daft - is it really that different batting in a 45/50 over win/lose(/tie!) game to batting in a 100 overs draw game? Obviously in limited overs games you don't get the situation of batting out for a draw (although I've seen people do it anyway enough times!) but other than that I don't quite see how things can be all that different unless the default approach is really conservative when batting. Plus, don't forget a win/lose league with a good bonus points system rewards careful batting even if you're chasing an impossible target - my personal highest score came when I arrived at the crease at 70ish/4 chasing 350+ and lost the only other remaining decent batsman shortly after leaving us about 80/5. Was still very satisfying personally and important for the team to make sure we got over 200.

What's a good score batting first in a time league, assuming decent pitches/standard etc? How common is declaring rather than being bowled out, and when do you declare? Most of the time in 45 over leagues I've played in I'd say you're aiming to get 200 as a minimum, 230+ and you're starting to feel confident on most grounds - are time leagues much different from that? Do you often end up with one team batting for substantially more than half of the game?
Logged
HS: 123, BB: 7-20

six and out

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 889
  • Trade Count: (0)
    • MKCC website
Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2018, 08:13:16 PM »

I've never played time cricket in a league situation, only the odd game back at school, so forgive me if I'm being daft - is it really that different batting in a 45/50 over win/lose(/tie!) game to batting in a 100 overs draw game? Obviously in limited overs games you don't get the situation of batting out for a draw (although I've seen people do it anyway enough times!) but other than that I don't quite see how things can be all that different unless the default approach is really conservative when batting. Plus, don't forget a win/lose league with a good bonus points system rewards careful batting even if you're chasing an impossible target - my personal highest score came when I arrived at the crease at 70ish/4 chasing 350+ and lost the only other remaining decent batsman shortly after leaving us about 80/5. Was still very satisfying personally and important for the team to make sure we got over 200.

What's a good score batting first in a time league, assuming decent pitches/standard etc? How common is declaring rather than being bowled out, and when do you declare? Most of the time in 45 over leagues I've played in I'd say you're aiming to get 200 as a minimum, 230+ and you're starting to feel confident on most grounds - are time leagues much different from that? Do you often end up with one team batting for substantially more than half of the game?

I am not sure what everyone is describing as what type of game.... as i always have known a Timed game to be something like playing 20 overs from 6pm as i grew up playing on a Sunday.

Then the other 2 types are Limited Overs straight Win or Lose and Win/Lose/Draw Cricket in specific overs which can range massively depending on league and standard. E.g.. 44 overs in the FCCL last season and 120 overs in the HCPL.
Logged

ppccopener

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5416
  • Trade Count: (+6)
Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #82 on: February 09, 2018, 08:15:31 PM »

There's definitely a difference for us newbies moving towards limited over games. Various different leagues would have bonus Points for a draw in some form or other and/or accumulated batting or bowling points.

Now you may still have bonus points in 45 over a side game, I'm not actually sure right now the points other than its 10 for a win, nothing for a loss.

Originally when I started league cricket the difference between a draw in a game you scored 175(max points, and got he oppo 9 down(max bowling) and then points for a draw....was not that great if you see what I mean. A win was 30, and you could get 18 (I think) for a good performance in a draw.

You could actually win he league not winning any games in theory but accumulating max points every game, and others lost all the time.

If you wanted to win regularly you needed to bowl the opposition out.

In a close league as I played in last year, the teams above you it was important not to lose, and deny them 10 points....
So if they got 300 and we couldn't get them, we played for a draw, and tried to Stop them getting 10 pts.

Now you could say that's negative cricket....personally I would not say that but others may view it that way.
Logged

edge

  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3212
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #83 on: February 09, 2018, 08:16:39 PM »

I am not sure what everyone is describing as what type of game.... as i always have known a Timed game to be something like playing 20 overs from 6pm as i grew up playing on a Sunday.

Then the other 2 types are Limited Overs straight Win or Lose and Win/Lose/Draw Cricket in specific overs which can range massively depending on league and standard. E.g.. 44 overs in the FCCL last season and 120 overs in the HCPL.
Fair point, what I've previously played was the 20 overs after x time affair, not the w/l/d in x overs for both innings type that seems to be common on here. Interested in whatever's common!
Logged
HS: 123, BB: 7-20

edge

  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3212
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2018, 08:20:26 PM »

@ppccopener I'd be right on to the league if there's no bonus points, that wouldn't be great in win/lose cricket. Otherwise conceding 300/0 and getting skittled for 50 is worth the same as scoring 250 and losing to 251/9, obviously ridiculous.

No system is perfect, but best I've played (IMO) is 15 points for a win, plus 10 batting and 10 bowling points available. Means there's always something to play for.
Logged
HS: 123, BB: 7-20

six and out

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 889
  • Trade Count: (0)
    • MKCC website
Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #85 on: February 09, 2018, 08:22:19 PM »

Fair point, what I've previously played was the 20 overs after x time affair, not the w/l/d in x overs for both innings type that seems to be common on here. Interested in whatever's common!

I think the most common was the w/l/d in x number of overs in league cricket. However I think that it's definitely changing to more limited overs straight win/lose.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6]
 

Advertise on CBF