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Poll

Why do you add a 'counterbalance' to your bats?

To add weight and blance the bat/pickup
For comfort/grip location
Both of the above
I don't add one, they are only for wierdos!
I have no idea what you're talking about
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Author Topic: Counterbalances  (Read 1766 times)

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Kulli

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Counterbalances
« on: February 19, 2018, 09:46:58 AM »

Always been a fair few mentions of counterbalances on here, and I see from all the bat photos that a fair number of members add them to their bats, but what I have always wondered about is the split over why.

I add 2-3 1-inch strips of grip under the grip on all my bats, but I do so because it sits nicely into the top of my top hand, and possibly because it helps with no grip slippage, especially if I have a bit old mow. I'm pretty sure the weight involved in 2-3 inches of chevron grip is insufficient to have any effect, and I've never really noticed any change in the feel of the bat after doing this.

I do understand that the general consensus though seems to be for a counterbalance (pretty sure that's the wrong word since the weight is still on the same side of any pivot point) where the idea is to add weight high up the bat in order to improve the pickup. This seems to be done by adding lead (other weights are available) to the knob of the bat, whether has lead tape or by hollowing out the top of the handle, etc.
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Counterbalances
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2018, 10:08:16 AM »

tried cut grips lead tape lead flashing ball bearing in the top of the handle  plus solid lead wrapped around the top of the handle nothing been really effective in improving the pick up.
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Kulli

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Re: Counterbalances
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2018, 10:12:37 AM »

tried cut grips lead tape lead flashing ball bearing in the top of the handle  plus solid lead wrapped around the top of the handle nothing been really effective in improving the pick up.

I would be interested to heard from someone with some technical knowledge in the area about how much weight would have an effect, and what that effect would be.
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mo_town

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Re: Counterbalances
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2018, 10:27:50 AM »

tried cut grips lead tape lead flashing ball bearing in the top of the handle  plus solid lead wrapped around the top of the handle nothing been really effective in improving the pick up.

Agreed...tried the same to no effect. Maybe the pros get it done professionally so it works for them. The most notable for me is Kallis. Always seen him with a counter balance on his bats. Even the other day when he was playing in the Ice Cricket matches he had a counter balance on. Maybe its just a comfort thing. Probably has a placebo effect where the batsman feels that the bat is picking lighter.
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Counterbalances
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2018, 10:54:57 AM »

Once tried to  alter the  balance by cutting an inch of the top of the handle and placing a one thick piece of round steel on top of the handle the same diameter of the handle  and covering it with a plastic cap of a spray can to hold it in place covered by a cut grip and tape  it made no difference to the pick up.
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Buzz

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Re: Counterbalances
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2018, 11:03:13 AM »

A counter balance shouldn't work because if you pick a bat up properly the pivot point is off the end of the handle.

If you think the pick up is improved, it is in your head and your mind playing tricks on you.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 11:51:50 AM by Buzz »
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Kulli

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Re: Counterbalances
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2018, 11:17:12 AM »

A counter balance should work because if you pick a bat up properly the pivot point is off the end of the handle.

If you think the pick up is improved, it is in your head and your mind playing tricks on you.

I'm guessing that first sentence should be shouldn't?

If so then I would be inclined to agree. I don't see how adding more weight to one side of the pivot can do anything but make it harder to pick up. I guess it could affect the position of the middle etc, but that's beyond my technical knowledge.
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Jlscarroll17

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Re: Counterbalances
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2018, 11:22:19 AM »

I'm the same as kulli I place a good roll of tape on the end of my handle for comfort because that's what I've always had as my set up, I agree it will add a little bit of weight to the handle but I wouldn't really notice the difference pick up wise
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DorsetDan

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Re: Counterbalances
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2018, 11:41:08 AM »

I would be interested to heard from someone with some technical knowledge in the area about how much weight would have an effect, and what that effect would be.


If you are not moving then think of it as a see saw. Lets say the centre of your top hand is the pivot point so you've got what, 10cm to the knob on the handle and how much mass... a couple of oz?. How much mass and how much distance is on the other side of the pivot? There isn't really any comparison.

It is slightly more complicated when the bat is rotating around the pivot, as the distance from the mass to the pivot becomes more important as the distance is squared now.

Not technically correct but close enough. You could argue that an effective counterbalance product should actually add mass and lengthen the handle. Or, think more about the mass you have towards the toe of the bat rather than things on the top of your handle.  ;)

I like too that people think a lot about counterbalances and grips but don't give much thought to the weight of their gloves. There a lot to worry about if you start looking in to the realities of placebos or subtleties of feel  :D

We are all different though so the easier answer is play with some lead tape for a few pounds off ebay and see what you think (60g as a starting point). While there are counter balance pro's there are also lots of guys doing this so it isn't easy to blindly do the "pro" things for instant runs :D



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Buzz

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Re: Counterbalances
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2018, 11:53:50 AM »

Dan, fine, but the pivot point isn't your top hand. When you pick the bat up you push it back effectively from your shoulders. It isn't until you cock yours wrists that the pivot point moves.

Prior to that it is off the end of the handle.
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Rob580

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Re: Counterbalances
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2018, 11:54:50 AM »

I used to do this all the time to my bats, 4 or 5 grip rings at the top of my handle, then tape over the top. I was absolutely convinced it made a difference until about 6 months ago when I just took them off one day to see how it was. Felt a bit weird not having them on there for about a dozen balls, then forgot all about it and have never put them back on.

I'm 99% sure it's a placebo effect, but I'm pretty sure 99% of cricket is just trying to convince yourself that something is working....
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Kulli

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Re: Counterbalances
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2018, 11:55:57 AM »

Interesting @DorsetDan, but I would argue that the correct pivot is somewhere well past the end of the bat, it is also arguable the elbow.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 12:00:43 PM by Kulli »
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edge

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Re: Counterbalances
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2018, 12:30:35 PM »

Depends completely on individual technique whether it will help pickup feel I'd say, some do cock the bat up and down around their wrists, some don't. Biggest problem is that if you're adding noticable weight to your bat then regardless of how it helps you feel with pickup you still have to swing that weight when you play a shot. Best pickup in the world doesn't help if your swing is screwed up by the extra weight and you can't time the ball.

Re. pros - they're not all special cricket scientists calculating the optimum bat balance, mostly they're just better at cricket than you! However, the only public comment I've ever seen from one about counterbalance is McCullum saying his isn't a counterbalance, he just wants something to but his hand up against when swinging hard.
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The Doctor

Re: Counterbalances
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2018, 12:43:22 PM »

I would be interested to heard from someone with some technical knowledge in the area about how much weight would have an effect, and what that effect would be.

From experiments that I have been involved in the past and modelling the counter balance, the weight would have to approx 1 foot away from the pivot point to have any effect on reducing the pick up of the bat, and therefore you can add as much lead tape as you wish to the end of the handle but you will never reduce the pick up weight (MOI). That said adding weights / extra grips will increase the difference between scale weight and pick up weight.

Therefore the only logical reason would be for hand location.

Streaky
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Kulli

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Re: Counterbalances
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2018, 12:52:07 PM »

From experiments that I have been involved in the past and modelling the counter balance, the weight would have to approx 1 foot away from the pivot point to have any effect on reducing the pick up of the bat, and therefore you can add as much lead tape as you wish to the end of the handle but you will never reduce the pick up weight (MOI). That said adding weights / extra grips will increase the difference between scale weight and pick up weight.

Therefore the only logical reason would be for hand location.

Streaky

Interesting, thanks for the reply.

Next question, have you come up with a way to measure the difference between scale weight and pick up, I'm sick of reading for sale posts where a 3lbs 15oz bat picks up like 2'7.
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