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Author Topic: Bat size restrictions  (Read 1281 times)

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Hoover

Bat size restrictions
« on: June 23, 2018, 01:31:02 AM »

So England have just hammered Australia to all parts of the country in recent times. All this with the reduced size of bats that was supposed to have the complete opposite effect.
When the MCC released their study Balance of The Game (https://www.lords.org/assets/Uploads/Balance-of-the-Game-Paper-V9.pdf) in May 2016 a number of seasoned cricket bat manufacturers contacted the committee to express a combination of relief and concern. Relief that we didnt have to try and make the biggest bats on the planet to satisfy fashion at the expense of performance, and concern that the size of a cricket bat was not the primary reason as the why records were being broken. Fitter players, much smaller boundaries, different preparation and new techniques (Jos Buttler e.g.) were ahead of bat size in our opinion and the opinion of some of the  batmaking professionals we consulted.
We ( and the other manufacturers) tried very hard to share this with MCC and they would have none of it. Bats for todays professional batsmen are made using different techniques (not technology, but technique) that are improving rapidly. As a sidenote we woud love to make these available to the general public but our experience is that the non professional has an issue wih the maintenance involved with the upkeep of these bats, no matter how good the performance.
My business partner submitted a reply to the committee outlining all of our concerns ( shared by at least one of the big 3 Indian manufacturers) including that we supported the new gauge but we dont believe it will have the desired effect. The answer was we have an ex County player on the committee who disagrees with you. He believes records are being broken because of he size of the bats. And we believe him.
My partner is also an ex County player, a female and a master batmaker with 25 years making cricket bats for some of the best players in the world.
No word yet from the MCC on a review..... of the review. Makes me wonder what they will choose to review next.
What do you guys think ?
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InternalTraining

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Re: Bat size restrictions
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2018, 03:08:00 AM »

...
 As a sidenote we woud love to make these available to the general public but our experience is that the non professional has an issue wih the maintenance involved with the upkeep of these bats, no matter how good the performance.
...
What do you guys think ?

Can you make couple of those bats available to me? Thanks.
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Buzz

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Re: Bat size restrictions
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2018, 07:04:24 AM »

Great thread Paul, I know that a number of other batmakers made similar representation to the committee.
Certainly both Dr David Bacon from B3 and Chris King at GN pointed out that F = M x A

But the committee knows better than Einstein...

However once Barry Richards showed his 2lb3 bat in that misleading picture next to Warner's over dried lump of a 2-11 bat minds were made up.

As you can't and wouldn't want to change bat improvements or the time pros spend practicing or in the gym, we should be focusing on having more in the wickets and balls that actually swing to even up the balance between bat and ball.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Bat size restrictions
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2018, 09:52:58 AM »

Top man.
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FattusCattus

Re: Bat size restrictions
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2018, 10:40:15 AM »

Agree with @Buzz - One day bowling should be a skill, and if bat techniques are aiding the batter then ball technology and pitch preparation should be allowed to aid the bowler.

I personally dont get excited about slogfests such as the IPL and Trent Bridge. A game where 280 beats 275 with loads of slower balls. yorkers and audacious hitting against a moving ball, with loads of furiously run singles would work for me.
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sachin200

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Re: Bat size restrictions
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2018, 01:58:48 PM »

Spot on! F = m x a. We cant change that! The change in m due to heavier bat isnt that huge i.e. 2lb 7 oz is ~1106 g and 2lb 11 oz is 1219 g (~10% increase) so the new bats can hit the ball only 10% longer when wielded at the same acceleration. The real reason for too many boundaries is they are swinging those bats harder, with higher a. The bigger biceps and larger core strength of the modern batters is hugely responsible (compare David Boon, Arjuna Ranatunga and co with todays 6 pack abs brigade). Plus reverse swing has gone out of fashion and the pitches have become flat as well. Two new balls dont allow spin and reverse swing and on the top of that, each and every single ground in the world has started to shrink for increase in seating capacity! Solution : make pitches competitive! Rather than restricting bat sizes, restrict their weights, stop the two new balls non-sense and make the grounds bigger (add capacity to the outer perineter and remove seats from the front).


So England have just hammered Australia to all parts of the country in recent times. All this with the reduced size of bats that was supposed to have the complete opposite effect.
When the MCC released their study Balance of The Game (https://www.lords.org/assets/Uploads/Balance-of-the-Game-Paper-V9.pdf) in May 2016 a number of seasoned cricket bat manufacturers contacted the committee to express a combination of relief and concern. Relief that we didnt have to try and make the biggest bats on the planet to satisfy fashion at the expense of performance, and concern that the size of a cricket bat was not the primary reason as the why records were being broken. Fitter players, much smaller boundaries, different preparation and new techniques (Jos Buttler e.g.) were ahead of bat size in our opinion and the opinion of some of the  batmaking professionals we consulted.
We ( and the other manufacturers) tried very hard to share this with MCC and they would have none of it. Bats for todays professional batsmen are made using different techniques (not technology, but technique) that are improving rapidly. As a sidenote we woud love to make these available to the general public but our experience is that the non professional has an issue wih the maintenance involved with the upkeep of these bats, no matter how good the performance.
My business partner submitted a reply to the committee outlining all of our concerns ( shared by at least one of the big 3 Indian manufacturers) including that we supported the new gauge but we dont believe it will have the desired effect. The answer was we have an ex County player on the committee who disagrees with you. He believes records are being broken because of he size of the bats. And we believe him.
My partner is also an ex County player, a female and a master batmaker with 25 years making cricket bats for some of the best players in the world.
No word yet from the MCC on a review..... of the review. Makes me wonder what they will choose to review next.
What do you guys think ?
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edge

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Re: Bat size restrictions
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2018, 09:07:02 AM »

Disclaimer - prepare for pedantry... While F=ma is a not unhelpful way of thinking about it, the 'M' described in F=ma refers to the mass of the cricket ball, not the bat. Force is applied by the bat, resulting in the mass of the ball accelerating at a.

Balls, change the balls, they're crap. I have a couple of white Kookaburra turf balls and they're rock hard, no seam, quarter seam cracks open after hardly any use at all, (No Swearing Please) if I'd bowl with one. A ball with a seam would make a huge difference.

@Hoover, if you'd be prepared to share the differences in technique and results and why the change between pro and standard bats would.be a very interesting read!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 09:08:49 AM by edge »
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Buzz

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Re: Bat size restrictions
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2018, 09:18:43 AM »

Surely the mass is the bat putting force on the ball or a 2lbs bat would hit the same weight ball as far as a 3lbs bat @edge ??

But agree that using rubbish balls is ruining cricket.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Bat size restrictions
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2018, 09:24:13 AM »

Yes, the mass. Which is why restricting size is a bit daft. Most players don't use heavy bats.
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edge

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Re: Bat size restrictions
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2018, 09:34:44 AM »

Surely the mass is the bat putting force on the ball or a 2lbs bat would hit the same weight ball as far as a 3lbs bat @edge ??

But agree that using rubbish balls is ruining cricket.
The force applied by the bat varies with both the mass and speed of the bat yes! But the law that lets you work it out out is Newton's first, not second. Conservation of momentum - the total momentum in a system (bat/ball collision) must remain constant. Momentum is mass x velocity (mv), so the total mv of bat and ball is the same before and after ball hits bat. Momentum is transferred from bat to ball, and the bigger the difference before collision the more momentum is transferred. How do you increase the momentum of the bat? More mass or more velocity.
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Hoover

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Re: Bat size restrictions
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2018, 10:02:08 AM »



@Hoover, if you'd be prepared to share the differences in technique and results and why the change between pro and standard bats would.be a very interesting read!
[/quote]
I dont know how other makers derive there techniques but we use a lot of trial and error in our making. We actually call our sponsored players lab rats ! Not trying to be clever at all but we wont share our IP on this.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Bat size restrictions
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2018, 10:07:36 AM »

Slight tangent: Hilton Cartwright is the first Bradbury sponsored county cricketer I've noticed for some time?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 10:12:46 AM by Bats_Entertainment »
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edge

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Re: Bat size restrictions
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2018, 10:16:50 AM »


@Hoover, if you'd be prepared to share the differences in technique and results and why the change between pro and standard bats would.be a very interesting read!

I dont know how other makers derive there techniques but we use a lot of trial and error in our making. We actually call our sponsored players lab rats ! Not trying to be clever at all but we wont share our IP on this.
I thought you might say that! Fair emough, can't blame you.
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Hoover

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Re: Bat size restrictions
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2018, 10:20:07 AM »

Slight tangent: Hilton Cartwright is the first Bradbury sponsored county cricketer I noticed for some time.
Fantastic guy. We have had him since he was 19. Seriously talented player who is fighting a bit of a form slump. Would be one of the better fielders in Australia too.
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JK Lewis

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Re: Bat size restrictions
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2018, 11:01:03 AM »

I think that as we can't make grounds bigger or players smaller, the game should be evened up by making the stumps taller and wider. There is big benefit to batsmen for every hit, so offer bowlers bigger benefit for every miss.
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