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Author Topic: England Vs India Test Matches  (Read 29100 times)

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ppccopener

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Re: England Vs India Test Matches
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2018, 08:48:42 AM »

If not Rashid then who? Mason Crane showed the most potential our of the 3 lads to have recently made their debuts but he is out injured for the season.  The cupboard is very bare when it comes to spin bowling options right now

exactly right SD, Smith wants options for England he is just doing his job

we are in Sri Lanka this winter,we will need 2 quality spinners, or at least the very best we can get available
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six and out

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Re: England Vs India Test Matches
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2018, 08:58:14 AM »

If not Rashid then who? Mason Crane showed the most potential our of the 3 lads to have recently made their debuts but he is out injured for the season.  The cupboard is very bare when it comes to spin bowling options right now

A thought Leach did very well in NZ considering he was on a track that offered absolutely nothing to him, Bess is very young but certainly has something about him.

The cupboard isn't bare it is just not necessarily holding any world beaters at the moment, but the potential is there definitely. We were spoilt for years having Swann and Panesar, we just have to realise that at the moment due to a lot of circumstances there will be a wait before we see another one of them come along etc...

Look i am not adverse to Rashid playing i just think it is a backward step and really sends out the wrong message to other spinners that you can just change your mind on a whim, after playing no red ball cricket and then get a test spot etc...

We are going to need 2 spinners in Sri Lanka anyway.
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SD

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Re: England Vs India Test Matches
« Reply #47 on: July 20, 2018, 10:18:42 AM »

The cupboard is bare when Moeen Ali can play 50 tests as the team's frontline spinner whilst averaging 40.  We were very lucky to have Swann and Monty playing at the same time and it may be some time before we have another spinner of that quality to call on.  The financial importance to the domestic game of playing T20 fixtures in the middle of summer is clear but it isn't going to produce the best system to develop international standard slow bowlers
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six and out

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Re: England Vs India Test Matches
« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2018, 11:21:03 AM »

The cupboard is bare when Moeen Ali can play 50 tests as the team's frontline spinner whilst averaging 40.  We were very lucky to have Swann and Monty playing at the same time and it may be some time before we have another spinner of that quality to call on.  The financial importance to the domestic game of playing T20 fixtures in the middle of summer is clear but it isn't going to produce the best system to develop international standard slow bowlers

Completely agree about the no CC in middle of summer scheduling being a detriment to spinner development etc...

However, the reason Mo played 50 tests was the brand of cricket England were playing and the structure of the team Cook (and then Root) wanted, we wanted a spinner/batsman at 8, Mo was there to cover our top order failings and got in because of our love of allrounders. Saying he was our front line spinner was all a load of bs that the team spewed for confidence etc..., he was never that, if we really wanted to play a proper spinner at the detriment of our batting line up, we could have quite easily backed a youngster and at least tried them out.

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Big Mac

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Re: England Vs India Test Matches
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2018, 11:46:48 AM »


we are in Sri Lanka this winter,we will need 2 quality spinners, or at least the very best we can get available

So why waste time with Rashid?  ;)
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SD

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Re: England Vs India Test Matches
« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2018, 12:03:01 PM »

Completely agree about the no CC in middle of summer scheduling being a detriment to spinner development etc...

However, the reason Mo played 50 tests was the brand of cricket England were playing and the structure of the team Cook (and then Root) wanted, we wanted a spinner/batsman at 8, Mo was there to cover our top order failings and got in because of our love of allrounders. Saying he was our front line spinner was all a load of bs that the team spewed for confidence etc..., he was never that, if we really wanted to play a proper spinner at the detriment of our batting line up, we could have quite easily backed a youngster and at least tried them out.

My personal view is that those games should have gone to Rashid who has the attributes to be a wicket taking spinner at test level (as well as ticking the box as an all rounder) but I can't think of anyone else from county cricket who was over looked as a wicket taking option during this period.  It just seems to me that this has been a very fallow period for England when it comes to spin options
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Seniorplayer

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Re: England Vs India Test Matches
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2018, 07:18:51 PM »

Do think though Rashid should make up his own mind  on playing and not  allow himself to be persuaded by selectors etc
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ppccopener

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Re: England Vs India Test Matches
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2018, 08:04:54 PM »

On the back of good one day form the Guardian is tipping Ali for a test recall. Have to say much as I like him he doesn't fit into what we need going forward, we are not good enough to have a part time spinner England think is our front line spinner, it just don't work.Ali is a batsman who bowls (well)

It's a bit of a shame if you think about it Ali was just under the level to bat top 5....we tried loads in the middle order in the last 3 years, he could of had a spot instead of westley,ballance,Vince etc etc

Of all of the recent ones Leach looks the best bet to me, a genuine spinner who will get wickets.Bess looks to have the character and is young enough to improve a lot.

Then there is Rashid and Ali.
With Butler recalled you would think he plays the whole summer....so we have room for the best wicket taking specialist spinner

As others have said, we are miles from Swann....if you can forget the inane commentary, he's up there with the very best we have had.
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Manormanic

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Re: England Vs India Test Matches
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2018, 11:43:47 PM »

Thing is, right now we're committed to Stokes being the fifth bowler rather than sixth, so unless we are happy for Jennings to make up some overs, we can only play one spinner.

Rashid is a perfect second spinner. So is Moeen. For that matter, Crane and arguably Bess fill that role.

The only one who might be a first spinner is Leach. He'll tie up an end, give little away...but he won't run through quality sides. So, ironically, he needs a second spinner...
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six and out

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Re: England Vs India Test Matches
« Reply #54 on: July 21, 2018, 06:48:25 AM »

Have you seen the SL vs SA 2nd test. Marharaj took 9 for and then 1st 3 SA wickets have gone to spin 19-3. It's only lunch on the 2nd day!!

We could need 3 spinners in Sri Lanka not 2!
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alexhilly1492

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Re: England Vs India Test Matches
« Reply #55 on: July 21, 2018, 08:01:22 AM »

Have you seen the SL vs SA 2nd test. Marharaj took 9 for and then 1st 3 SA wickets have gone to spin 19-3. It's only lunch on the 2nd day!!

We could need 3 spinners in Sri Lanka not 2!

I think we may need 17 batsman forget how many spinners  :(
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ppccopener

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Re: England Vs India Test Matches
« Reply #56 on: July 21, 2018, 08:36:40 AM »

I'm on the phone to that Al jazzera reporter about the pitch in Sri Lanka.

This sort of thing must be reported, and he told me the next test will be all 4 innings in one day so I'm off down the bookies.

If you can't best em join em.
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six and out

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Re: England Vs India Test Matches
« Reply #57 on: July 21, 2018, 09:09:44 AM »

I'm on the phone to that Al jazzera reporter about the pitch in Sri Lanka.

This sort of thing must be reported, and he told me the next test will be all 4 innings in one day so I'm off down the bookies.

If you can't best em join em.

Lol..... it's an interesting one whether the pitch will be reported.

SA all out 124 with all 10 wickets falling to spin.

Total figures for spinners in the test are 19-287 off 87.4 overs. And it's Tea on the 2nd day.
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ppccopener

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Re: England Vs India Test Matches
« Reply #58 on: July 21, 2018, 09:24:02 AM »

Lol..... it's an interesting one whether the pitch will be reported.

SA all out 124 with all 10 wickets falling to spin.

Total figures for spinners in the test are 19-287 off 87.4 overs. And it's Tea on the 2nd day.

That's an amazing statistic!! You expect spinning wicket in Sri Lanka and India but that's off the scale

Out of interest wickets have been reported for being sub standard....Jamaica abandoned game for those that remember that....has a wicket ever been reported for spinning too much?? Not in my memory wonder if has actually happened?
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six and out

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Re: England Vs India Test Matches
« Reply #59 on: July 21, 2018, 09:27:10 AM »

That's an amazing statistic!! You expect spinning wicket in Sri Lanka and India but that's off the scale

Out of interest wickets have been reported for being sub standard....Jamaica abandoned game for those that remember that....has a wicket ever been reported for spinning too much?? Not in my memory wonder if has actually happened?

Interesting I don't think so... the pitches in the last Bangladesh tour were spinning from ball 1 and never got reported and I think there was an pitch in the recent SL vs Aus series that was crazy that Smith wanted reporting that didn't happen.

EDIT - it was India vs Aus at Pune and Chris Broad rated the pitch as poor as Aus won in 3 days by 333 runs
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 09:35:21 AM by six and out »
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