ÔĽŅ Chris King (GN) article
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Chris King (GN) article
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2018, 08:00:08 PM »

So how are they pressed and if that presiding came to the recreational level what effect would it have on the bat In terms.of the poorer quality league balls which are not bat brekaers but are harder and have a this lacquer on and make a more cheaper sound when it comes off the bat
at recreational level when pressing
Bat makers have warranties to consider
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ppccopener

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Re: Chris King (GN) article
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2018, 08:04:56 PM »

The balls surely have to have something to do with it. An 11 league ball would damage an expensive bat, a test or county quality ball would cost....40 maybe, or 50.

I don't know for sure but a higher quality ball you would think is softer.

If you look on some manufacturers websites they do mention cheap balls and high grade bats don't mix.
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CricketXI

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Re: Chris King (GN) article
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2018, 08:17:48 PM »

Quality of Ball, I can understand it a controllable factor.

Saw this a long time back :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHz4sdGryOQ
Where Gayle is suggesting a harder pressed bat gives better ping.
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SD

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Re: Chris King (GN) article
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2018, 08:35:33 PM »

My understanding is that if you used a blade that hasn't been pressed at all, the wood would be so soft that it would simply absorb the impact of the ball and put a dent in the bat.  The blade needs to be pressed to a point where the face is hard enough to rebound the force the ball has been delivered with rather than absorb it, but not so hard that the wood loses its springy quality that transfers power to hit the ball in the direction the bat is travelling.  However, at this optimum point of performance, the bat is still soft enough to be at a high risk of damage so the bat has a limited lifespan.  What would be an acceptable lifespan for a pro who gets the bats for free wouldn't be acceptable to an amateur who has to pay for each bat so bats on the retail market are pressed beyond their optimum performance point in order to prolong their life.  As such, the skill of the bat maker is to strike an optimum balance between performance and longevity.

From experience I certainly feel that a bat can be under pressed so that it doesn't ping well.  For example, I purchase a B3 at the start of the year that is so soft that even after hours with a mallet and even more time with the bowling machine, it has a spongy quality that absorbs a lot of the impact from the ball and generates little power.  In this case, I have a £365 bat that neither pings nor is it likely to have much of a lifespan
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DorsetDan

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Re: Chris King (GN) article
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2018, 09:56:28 PM »

Take it back to them if you aren't happy. The B3s I have have quite flexible handles too so that could be a culprit. Press and feel of the face is on the firmer side though
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DorsetDan

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Re: Chris King (GN) article
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2018, 09:57:41 PM »

Quality of Ball, I can understand it a controllable factor.

Saw this a long time back :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHz4sdGryOQ
Where Gayle is suggesting a harder pressed bat gives better ping.

This is also what I heard from an England player... massively over dried willow for size and very firm press. Not sure of the reality but that was how he felt it was made
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Biggie Smalls

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Re: Chris King (GN) article
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2018, 10:57:59 PM »

Some manufacturers definitely press differently (softer) for pro bats (just look @sarg review of the bradbury he had in a while back ....customer asked for it to be pressed just like it would be for a sponsored pro).....this is proof to anyone whomay say pro pressing never happens/is a myth).
I think all manufacturers have their own ideas , it varies . Some will pressapro bat a lot softer , some believe if they try to press each bat for optimum performance then they don't need to try to differentiate between pro and amateur pressing. Then on top of this , players have their own requests and requirements too.
I have come across a fair few probats that felt like they were unicorns , like nothing you'd see in a shop.  That was down to pressing , at least to a degree , but I'm sure the cleft selection had something to do with it aswell.
Ultimately bats are made from natural materials and mysterious things can happen ......theres always the chance of a pro getting a dud once a blue moon , and theres always a chance of  us clubbies getting a pro performing bat off the shelf/ from a batmaker too.
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sarg

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Re: Chris King (GN) article
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2018, 11:51:55 PM »

Some manufacturers definitely press differently (softer) for pro bats (just look @sarg review of the bradbury he had in a while back ....customer asked for it to be pressed just like it would be for a sponsored pro).....this is proof to anyone whomay say pro pressing never happens/is a myth).
I think all manufacturers have their own ideas , it varies . Some will pressapro bat a lot softer , some believe if they try to press each bat for optimum performance then they don't need to try to differentiate between pro and amateur pressing. Then on top of this , players have their own requests and requirements too.
I have come across a fair few probats that felt like they were unicorns , like nothing you'd see in a shop.  That was down to pressing , at least to a degree , but I'm sure the cleft selection had something to do with it aswell.
Ultimately bats are made from natural materials and mysterious things can happen ......theres always the chance of a pro getting a dud once a blue moon , and theres always a chance of  us clubbies getting a pro performing bat off the shelf/ from a batmaker too.


I just take a good look at my bat after a net session and realise a bat pressed soft would crack in my hands as i dont middle the ball with any consistence and iím not going to spend 1000ís of hours in my 40s trying to improve that. a soft press is not for me. a decent pinging bit of willow pressed and prepared properly is what i need.
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Mfarank

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Re: Chris King (GN) article
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2018, 03:56:42 AM »

Is there a science to it- for selecting a cleft, pressing and manufacturing a pro-bat (when I say pro i mean big names) or is it just the gut feeling and experience of a bat maker. And when you say 'unlike anything we see on the shelves' does that mean G1+, pro edition, player's grade, limited edition are all rubbish.
I would say yes its all rubbish.
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prim0pyr0

Re: Chris King (GN) article
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2018, 06:03:29 AM »

Some manufacturers definitely press differently (softer) for pro bats (just look @sarg review of the bradbury he had in a while back ....customer asked for it to be pressed just like it would be for a sponsored pro).....this is proof to anyone whomay say pro pressing never happens/is a myth).
I think all manufacturers have their own ideas , it varies . Some will pressapro bat a lot softer , some believe if they try to press each bat for optimum performance then they don't need to try to differentiate between pro and amateur pressing. Then on top of this , players have their own requests and requirements too.
I have come across a fair few probats that felt like they were unicorns , like nothing you'd see in a shop.  That was down to pressing , at least to a degree , but I'm sure the cleft selection had something to do with it aswell.
Ultimately bats are made from natural materials and mysterious things can happen ......theres always the chance of a pro getting a dud once a blue moon , and theres always a chance of  us clubbies getting a pro performing bat off the shelf/ from a batmaker too.
like hitman bats?
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Chris King (GN) article
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2018, 08:05:37 AM »

Some manufacturers definitely press differently (softer) for pro bats (just look @sarg review of the bradbury he had in a while back ....customer asked for it to be pressed just like it would be for a sponsored pro).....this is proof to anyone whomay say pro pressing never happens/is a myth).
I think all manufacturers have their own ideas , it varies . Some will pressapro bat a lot softer , some believe if they try to press each bat for optimum performance then they don't need to try to differentiate between pro and amateur pressing. Then on top of this , players have their own requests and requirements too.
I have come across a fair few probats that felt like they were unicorns , like nothing you'd see in a shop.  That was down to pressing , at least to a degree , but I'm sure the cleft selection had something to do with it aswell.
Ultimately bats are made from natural materials and mysterious things can happen ......theres always the chance of a pro getting a dud once a blue moon , and theres always a chance of  us clubbies getting a pro performing bat off the shelf/ from a batmaker too.

Perfectly true also with regard to cleft selection the lightest of the light natural best performing  clefts are skimmed off for the pros you won't see any bats made from this  willow in the shops or available to the public.
Totally different from the over dried willow baked as we know  a process which gets the weight down and gives you a big bat but it will be dry due to the willow losing its fibrous integrity you can  make a light bat from an heavy cleft but it won't last long.
This is why most bats available to the public have around 11 percent moisture allowing the cleft to retain its fibrous integrity but this means weight but the bat is more  likely to last past the batmakers warranty.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 08:53:22 AM by Seniorplayer »
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InternalTraining

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Re: Chris King (GN) article
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2018, 12:39:38 PM »

Perfectly true also with regard to cleft selection the lightest of the light natural best performing  clefts are skimmed off for the pros you won't see any bats made from this  willow in the shops or available to the public.

And, we are the ones who pay top dollar for the SECOND BEST (or worse) clefts/bats!! This is so unfair...very dishonest business practices. We are being scammed when those million dollar making pros should be paying thru their noses for those bats like average-joe cricketers. @$%holes!!!
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FattusCattus

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Re: Chris King (GN) article
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2018, 06:07:11 PM »

It feels like a lot of speculation on this thread. Perhaps we should ask an actual batmaker to Ďcome out of the woodwork Ď (ahahahahahahah!!)

@Hoover
@thebigginge
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LEACHY48

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Re: Chris King (GN) article
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2018, 07:54:21 PM »

Hi All,

Apologies if this has been noted before, but I came across an interesting article about bat size being a psychological prop. It centres around a discussion with Chris King, head batmaker at Gray Nicolls. I assume many of the opinions/ facts come from Chris, but could be wrong on that point.
I found one section (below) of particular interest, suggesting that the knocking in process actually helps 'undo' the pressing (de-laminate), rather than my perception of knocking in increasing the pressing (ie knocking in compresses the fibres further, hence dents in the surface which eventually becomes the norm over the whole blade during the knocking in process) -
''...The process of pressing hasn't changed significantly. Modern bats are pressed just slightly less. As the bat is used, the fibres that have been pushed together begin to separate in a process called delamination. In the early stage of delamination the bat reaches its peak, when the ball will feel as though it is trampolining from the face. Cook and Ramprakash, the last generation to have grown up with their bats pressed slightly harder, still prefer to play a bat in themselves in the nets, where they feel the delamination begin. It's an unfamiliar concept now, when bats are effectively already beginning to delaminate before a ball has struck the face, and no longer need as much "knocking in"', the age-old job that used to start the process. ''

link to the full 2014 article here-
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/787773.html

Next question - Do (pro) players or bat makers know best, what makes a better bat?
Current pro bats may be good for between 200- 1,000 runs, but presumably there is quite a lot of net practice with the same bats, to add to the 'workload' before the typical pro bat comes to the end of its useful life.

Lots of food for both thought and discussion.

David


What absolute bull!!! If knocking in undid the pressing process then why would anyone press a bat in the first place. Frustrates the hell out of me that there is so much guff in the cricket industry. Also the fact that you are compressing the bat (which is what pressing does also) means that it clearly is doing the exact same thing! Absolute crap!

Pros get the best of the best. Having used a couple of pro bats, they are special, are they better performing thatíll anything else out there? No. Are they bigger? Yes. Do they have a larger hitting zone? Yes. They are fantastic bats but if you buy a good off the shelf bat they are also good bats. Cricket bats are very simple; either they go or they donít, generally the difference is the pro using said bat middles everything and times the pants off of it
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DorsetDan

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Re: Chris King (GN) article
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2018, 07:58:25 PM »

There was a recent knocking in video from GN where King again suggested bats didn't need any knocking in... but it got quickly taken down again :)
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