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stevat

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Re: Playing out swing
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2018, 10:18:38 AM »

Jimmy is a one in million though you don't often come up against in leagues thank god 😜

Would be great for the Lancs leagues if he played post retirement. 
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SD

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Re: Playing out swing
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2018, 12:16:08 PM »

Rather like playing spin, you either want to get all the way forward and meet the ball early before the movement or play back and wait for the ball to have swung.  Play with soft hands and the ball underneath your eyeline.  When you see players really struggling against it, you tend to see them pushing hard in front of their body rather than waiting for the ball to come to them.

More than any other bowling, it really tests your judgment of where your off stick is.  It is certainly worth setting a bowling machine up to move the ball away and then video yourself to see how many balls you played at which you didn't need to.
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Buzz

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Re: Playing out swing
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2018, 03:27:37 PM »

If the ball is swinging you don't want to be playing off the back foot...

You might want to also read this, which I didn't write all that recently!
Here are my thoughts on this I would have replied sooner, but I have been out of range of the forum (some people may be grateful of that!)

Firstly I have seen a load of people in the past say just go a play your shots if one has you name on so be it. This is nonsense. You just need a plan. From above, I can see that niceonechoppy made a plan and it worked... this makes the point nicely, I also think his is a really good plan for playing away swing bowlers. Playing the ball late is a good move, but what I believe is that is isnt so much playing it late, as playing the ball under your eyes that matters.

This will help negate the problem many people (myself included) have in planting their front leg and getting pinned.

Remember swing when it happens regardless of what type of swing it is will either be early swing (from the bowlers hand) or the more dangerous late swing. With early swing it is usually easier to play the ball behind square and hit the short or over pitched ball.

Regardless the most important thing is to try and upset the bowlers rhythm the easiest way of doing this is by running singles and rotating the strike. Bowlers love bowling six balls at the same batsman and trying to set them up Martin Bicknell was the absolute master at this.

Out swing

Facing good consistent away swing is difficult, when bowled at pace you can find yourself fencing for the ball, which is not a good situation to be in. My view is, early on, to play down the line of the off stump and, especially early on to let the ball go through to the keeper (see comments I have written on this elsewhere on this site http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=4576.0) the idea is to try to force the bowler to bowl straighter at me which will hopefully give me a freebee to hit through the on side whilst still rotating the strike and following the comments above. If this isnt working the next option is the Matty Hayden option of coming down the track at the bowler to intimidate him. I try to do this a lot especially against a medium bowler and look to hit him through the line before it swings. Or looking for the late cut to use the pace of the ball.
The key to this is to not over commit and over attack too early. The ball will only swing for a bit and you need to weather the storm in the short term until the bowler tires.

In swing

This is a different challenge here I try to open my stance slightly and work hard to get outside the line of off stump  - either with a strong stride (different from a big stride which can cause you to lose your balance) or a slight trigger across the crease. This will open up the leg side for me to hit with the swing of the ball. The danger of this is that you move to far and lose your leg stump so work hard on the nets on playing the ball aiming through Mid On and watching the ball fly through mid wicket for runs!

A bit of both
Occasionally, although fortunately not too frequently, you get a bowler who swings it both ways at will (or worse at pace!) if this is the case work out which one is going to be the most dangerous for you. For me it is in swing so I play the bowling as if every ball is an in swinger and if it moves away from me I either let it go, or drop it a gap to get to the other end. If you are better a playing in swing and struggle against the ball moving away from you, wait for in ducker and knock it in a gap, whilst concentrating on protecting your off stump.

The crucial thing is to have decisive foot work, but not to over commit and to try not to plant your front foot.

Going back to the original question: Find myself committing to the line very early, especially early in the innings when im trying to get my eye in..
I open and most of the time I stand outside by a few inches, wondering if going back on the backfoot would work..

Over committing early on is an easy mistake i suspect you may be trying to play the ball before it is bowled, rather than waiting and trusting your instincts. In this case following Bulldogs advice and clearing you mind and just concentrating on watching the ball and doing nothing else will really help.
I think looking to coming forward to be positive to the bowling is important if you play back, you may be vulnerable to the in swinger. Remember all swing requires the bowler to pitch the ball up to you, so you wont get to play back much and it may not help you. On the plus side, because of this you will get balls to hit and work through for singles.


I hope this helps...
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jayralh

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Re: Playing out swing
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2018, 07:34:38 PM »

Thank you everyone who replied. Will try to practice and improve
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InternalTraining

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Re: Playing out swing
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2018, 07:56:16 PM »

If the ball is swinging you don't want to be playing off the back foot...

You might want to also read this, which I didn't write all that recently!

Swinging ball I can play, how do you navigate an off-cutter from good length that clatters your middle or leg stump? I am really begining to think it is the line-of-sight problem where helmet grill is getting in the way of lowering the eyeline/head further towards my chest.

Thoughts?
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stevat

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Re: Playing out swing
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2018, 08:23:12 PM »

Guess you've got to get your head over your knee by the sounds of it. If it's too far to play forward to and too fast to adjust to the seam movement, you have to hold your hands up and say well bowled mate.
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InternalTraining

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Re: Playing out swing
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2018, 08:46:47 PM »

So, the head should not be forward and over the knees?
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Playing out swing
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2018, 10:06:37 AM »

Guess you've got to get your head over your knee by the sounds of it. If it's too far to play forward to and too fast to adjust to the seam movement, you have to hold your hands up and say well bowled mate.

If you can't get foreward all is not lost cover our off stump if the ball deviates and is missing  don't play it if the ball moves enough that you have to play it  stay n line with off stump lead with your head  use soft hands with the bat pointing down and hope that the ball doesn't swing enough to nick it.
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SAFC2403

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Re: Playing out swing
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2018, 10:39:19 AM »

As an opener i found i just moved a bit more outside the crease(presuming keeper is standing back of course) to attempt to negate the swing. This worked a few times for me this season.

If keeper is up then you are just going to have to watch the ball like a hawk and try and get over the top of the ball as much as poss and play with soft hands. Leave as much as possible and pray the ball stops swinging while you are still hanging in there! In our league the balls tend to do a bit for about 10-15 overs then not as much swing - my plan as opener was to just wait for the bad ball and leave/block the rest and then make hay when the ball stops swinging.

Good luck
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Cys1

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Re: Playing out swing
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2018, 03:03:56 PM »

Would the key to how you would approach playing this swing not be found in the intent of your innings? Are you forced to score runs due to a limited over format or are you just looking to survive?
Once you have sorted that out for yourself you can then decide how to approach playing the swing.
Should you be looking to score runs, you cannot just leave all the balls and let the bowler bowl his settled line and length and clock up maiden after maiden. Your main issue here would be that you are struggling to get bat on ball due to it moving further away from you. A simple change to your guard would help to bring you more in line with off stump and closer to the ball. Moving from middle and leg to middle and off might be easiest to start with etc.
for a ball to swing, the bowler has to bowl it relatively full to be effective and to get most movement. You are therefore at risk of getting out either defending or attacking outside offstump of the front foot. ( if he has a good bouncer he could also catch you front dogging but most club bowlers aren't quick enough to do that. ) Chances are that he would be bowling a full ball that could be driven in most overs. Just a keep in mind that you cannot try and hit the swinging half volley outside off through extra cover any longer, you will need to adjust with your shoulder and hit these squarer, the wider it is bowled.
Identify scoring areas based on the length of the ball and remember that a swinging half volley is still a bad ball and as with any good balls, you can either leave or get a single. Defending with a straight bat, down the line of the wicket so ball hits the outside half of the bat can often lead singles behind point and down to 3rd man. Never defend outside off with a bat angled towards cover etc, this is asking for an edge.
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uknsaunders

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Re: Playing out swing
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2018, 08:59:33 PM »

Saw something on sky where thr commentators said "see it early, play it late". Which is bang on

My brother was a fine outswing bowler, played for Bucks at junior level and i spent many a Saturday in my youth playing balls through the legside only to lose my off stump. I ended with an initial trigger movement based on the line of the ball as it left the bowlers hand, essentially to cover the line if it didnt swing away. I then had a second movement determined by how much the ball swung and moved as late as possible. If the ball started on leg, i setup my first movement on leg and as it swung i moved late again across with the swing.

What i would say is a half volley is still a half volley, whether it swings or not. Bowlers want to pitch up when its swinging and you should look for anything to drive, just play it late even if it means a shorter backswing.

Something i have noticed with good players is the ability to pick length early and go back and cut. If you have the time when batting and confident of the ball swinging outside off then its an option. Ditto coming out of your crease and meeting on a fuller length. Something i once did with a bowling machine is to set it on a good length swinging away and then bat a yard outside of your crease to meet it on the half volley, next ball bat deep in your crease and look to cut from the same length. Might be a useful drill.
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SD

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Re: Playing out swing
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2018, 10:27:12 PM »

If the ball is swinging you don't want to be playing off the back foot...

I would have to disagree with this when it comes to facing away swing.  The later you can play the ball, the better your decision making should be when it comes to deciding whether you need to be playing at a particular ball.  I would say that this is particularly the case early on in an inninings when you are trying to get in.
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alexhilly1492

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Re: Playing out swing
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2018, 11:50:55 PM »

I would have to disagree with this when it comes to facing away swing.  The later you can play the ball, the better your decision making should be when it comes to deciding whether you need to be playing at a particular ball.  I would say that this is particularly the case early on in an inninings when you are trying to get in.

The ball normally wont swing unless its full so if your playing on the back foot your in the wrong position

You can play mate and off the front foot
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SD

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Re: Playing out swing
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2018, 08:25:49 AM »

I don't think the length has any impact as to whether a ball swings or not - it has of course been the perennial criticism of Broad and Anderson that they bowl far too short when the ball is moving.  It is rather that a bowler moving the ball away from the bat will try to pitch it up to encourage the drive.
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