Advertise on CBF

Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6

Author Topic: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science  (Read 3936 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DorsetDan

  • International Captain
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1941
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science
« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2019, 10:55:13 AM »

The standard mid/low sweetspot duckbill VK shape seems like the most popular shape nowadays

Dont mention duckbills to @Northern monkey ! :)

Do what you do best I say 👍
Logged

JK Lewis

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 529
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science
« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2019, 10:57:00 AM »

Thoughts on shape/profile?

I really like that one at the top of your page 18. Looks great and I think you could get the same bat out of both clefts.  Should have them over to you mid next week.
Logged

jayralh

  • First XI Captain
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 219
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science
« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2019, 12:14:08 PM »

Thoughts on shape/profile?
Both should be same profile to compare later on. Personally I like full profile no to minimum concaving with wood spread all across.
Logged

edge

  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3703
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2019, 11:05:57 PM »

I'd either go for batmaker's choice on profile or something fairly generic, mid middle etc. so as not to skew people's judgement. Looking forward to seeing how this progresses, top stuff @JK Lewis !
Logged
HS: 126, BB: 7-20

bostoncricketer

  • First XI Captain
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 268
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science
« Reply #64 on: January 03, 2019, 12:55:23 AM »

The narrow grain has a lot of heartwood. Does that add to the weight and lesser mositure loss?
Logged

JK Lewis

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 529
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science
« Reply #65 on: January 03, 2019, 07:46:04 AM »

The narrow grain has a lot of heartwood. Does that add to the weight and lesser mositure loss?

That's a good question. I've wondered about it myself, my suspicion is that heartwood is a little heavier. I can't prove it either way with this current test, but I'll look for suitable wood to experiment with.

In theory the new bat regs limit the top of the weight range that would be available. In practice it probably doesn't matter as few players want massively heavy bats anyway. But, if heartwood is actually heavier, then a completely heartwood bat might offer a few extra ounces that sapwood might not.
Logged

InternalTraining

  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3551
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science
« Reply #66 on: January 03, 2019, 06:18:08 PM »

In theory the new bat regs limit the top of the weight range that would be available.

That's interesting, I didn't know (or think) about this. What do you think is the upper limit that a bat maker/pro can get away with these days?
Logged

DorsetDan

  • International Captain
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1941
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science
« Reply #67 on: January 03, 2019, 06:28:46 PM »

You're not going to struggle to make a 3lb+ bat that still fits through the gauges so I think most people should still be covered. If you've got a dense bit of wood (or even "average" density) then I can't see it changing anything, the gauges aren't small

Also, density is density. Sure heartwood may generally be denser but that isn't to say you can't find a full heartwood cleft and full sapwood cleft that aren't the same density/ weight.
Logged

JK Lewis

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 529
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science
« Reply #68 on: January 03, 2019, 07:47:12 PM »

That's interesting, I didn't know (or think) about this. What do you think is the upper limit that a bat maker/pro can get away with these days?

@DorsetDan is right, 3lb+ is still comfortably possible, and if you wanted even heavier you could use a less-dried cleft anyway, or a different type of wood. So in practise, as I said earlier, the new regs don't really have an effect on this. I just find it interesting to ponder what new limitations might mean. Personally I think there are better ways to achieve a rebalancing of bat and ball, but hey, that's a debate for another thread!
Logged

Northern monkey

Re: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science
« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2019, 03:36:19 PM »



Clefts arrived Justin
Logged
Oxfordshire cricket bats

JK Lewis

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 529
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science
« Reply #70 on: January 10, 2019, 05:44:03 PM »



Clefts arrived Justin

Excellent! Thanks mate, I'm excited to see the results.  :)
Logged

Northern monkey

Re: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science
« Reply #71 on: January 10, 2019, 06:21:46 PM »



We all ok with this shape?
Weights gonna be 2.11 ish finished,,,, theres a lot of wood in that profile
Logged
Oxfordshire cricket bats

tushar sehgal

  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3864
  • Trade Count: (+8)
Re: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science
« Reply #72 on: January 10, 2019, 06:52:47 PM »



We all ok with this shape?
Weights gonna be 2.11 ish finished,,,, theres a lot of wood in that profile

Looks a lovely shape...
Logged

JK Lewis

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 529
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science
« Reply #73 on: January 10, 2019, 08:26:34 PM »



We all ok with this shape?
Weights gonna be 2.11 ish finished,,,, theres a lot of wood in that profile

This is great. 2.11 should be good for most of us, and will give a decent middle.
Logged

JK Lewis

Re: Narrow Grain vs Wide Grain - Amateur Science
« Reply #74 on: February 14, 2019, 03:53:14 PM »

So just following up the brief post I added on the @Northern monkey thread yesterday, I thought I'd share some photos of another Wide Grain cleft I've got. All trees grow in the same way of course, but when the growth is so rapid (25mm per year or so), it makes it very easy to see how the growth builds and changes through the year.

Here's 3 photos of the same cleft, a 4 grainer. Growth is from Right to Left. As we all know, each grain indicates the period of dormancy during the winter months. Sap is low, the leaves have fallen, photosynthesis is not taking place, water is not being drawn up the trunk, growth is stopped. Then the spring arrives, the tree 'wakes up' and a period of intense growth takes place. As you can see, the tree bulks up with water so rapidly that the fibres of the wood are widely spaced. As summer arrives, there is less water available to draw up. The growth gradually slows and through the rest of the year the density of the fibres increases.







So, what then does this tell us about wide and narrow grain clefts? Clearly, there is a lot more water in WG timber, and less wood fibre. So it follows that when we dry these clefts out the weight is likely to be less than NG clefts. This is reflected in the current experiment, as Northern Monkey's careful notes demonstrate. But might this high growth also help explain the performance and longevity of WG bats? As we see, there are significant areas of lower density wood, which might be more 'springy and pingy', but may also be more likely to break up under the pressure of a hard ball.

Hopefully we can try to answer some of these questions when the 2 bats are ready to play. Come on Northern, have at it!
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6
 

Advertise on CBF