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Seniorplayer

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Re: Are there too many Cricket clubs?
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2018, 11:58:30 AM »

Agree with the above  with  our club it's the out of the way  village location we are struggling to survive  ground facilities and finance are excellent. but doesn't have the set up of  down the road  Birmingham League Kidderminster CC
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 12:00:33 PM by Seniorplayer »
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RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie

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Re: Are there too many Cricket clubs?
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2018, 12:10:34 PM »

PS    What SHOULD happen to what we all do are two things. Over the last 4 years i've pushed our club to go from 2 teams to 3 and now we are building a second wicket on the land. Once that's done,  a 4th's will be established and then the youth teams will be expanded.. Why.. because it's the only way to survive now sadly.. Both financially and purely for player base.. That's without really caring about the 'level' either.. leave that to the clubs who want to buy their way to the top.
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SLA

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Re: Are there too many Cricket clubs?
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2018, 01:09:28 PM »

The reason clubs are folding is because its becoming increasingly difficult to replace players when they move away, retire or otherwise reduce their availability. In the past clubs might have been able to rely on a steady trickle of new, younger players coming in, but since cricket disappeared from FTA tv that trickle has dried up entirely.

There are lots of zero-sum-game activities some clubs get up to to steal players off other clubs, which might give them a temporary boost, but this comes at the cost of another club going under, so in the grand scheme of things this isn't really a helpful attitude. I see clubs boasting about how they're growing and getting promoted, but look behind the façade and they've basically just asset stripped several other clubs from their area. There is nothing admirable in this approach.

Ultimately, the only way for a club to stay alive in a sustainable manner is to put the huge amount of work into setting up and running a junior section. But again, without international cricket on FTA tv, kids fail to fully engage, drift off into other activities, and this ends up being incredibly hard work for very little positive outcome.
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WalkingWicket37

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Re: Are there too many Cricket clubs?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2018, 01:28:19 PM »

Ultimately, the only way for a club to stay alive in a sustainable manner is to put the huge amount of work into setting up and running a junior section. But again, without international cricket on FTA tv, kids fail to fully engage, drift off into other activities, and this ends up being incredibly hard work for very little positive outcome.

We have a "thriving colts setup" on the face of it, with All Stars, sides for under 9s through to under 15's and a coalition with 2 other clubs for an under 17 side. But the retention rate is virtually non-existent.

From an age group who had 2 under 15 sides and competition for places in the teams, so 26 kids who played regular colts cricket, how many players do you think carried on once their Friday night T20's finished, and are still involved in the club?

The answer, 2. And that's seen as a good year...
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Neon Cricket

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Re: Are there too many Cricket clubs?
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2018, 01:39:13 PM »

We have a "thriving colts setup" on the face of it, with All Stars, sides for under 9s through to under 15's and a coalition with 2 other clubs for an under 17 side. But the retention rate is virtually non-existent.

From an age group who had 2 under 15 sides and competition for places in the teams, so 26 kids who played regular colts cricket, how many players do you think carried on once their Friday night T20's finished, and are still involved in the club?

The answer, 2. And that's seen as a good year...

Literally the same story with the club I grew up at, easily 20/30 regular players for our age group (just one year!) yet through a combination of people moving away/stopping playing the sport there is now only 3 players from that group still at the same club.

On the flipside, one is the 1st team skipper and the other 2 both also play in the 1st team so you could argue that the junior section has done what the club needed it to do in that respect?

Luckily for us at Trowbridge we only have 2 players over the age of 30 in both the 1st and 2nd team put together (most around the 21 to 25 mark), quite a rare position to be in so stability isn't an issue for us unlike most - lots of juniors still coming through too. If anything I can anticipate it becoming an issue when spaces in the 1s and 2s dry up, but the natural cycle of players coming and going should hopefully limit that.
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RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie

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Re: Are there too many Cricket clubs?
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2018, 02:12:06 PM »

The reason clubs are folding is because its becoming increasingly difficult to replace players when they move away, retire or otherwise reduce their availability. In the past clubs might have been able to rely on a steady trickle of new, younger players coming in, but since cricket disappeared from FTA tv that trickle has dried up entirely.

There are lots of zero-sum-game activities some clubs get up to to steal players off other clubs, which might give them a temporary boost, but this comes at the cost of another club going under, so in the grand scheme of things this isn't really a helpful attitude. I see clubs boasting about how they're growing and getting promoted, but look behind the façade and they've basically just asset stripped several other clubs from their area. There is nothing admirable in this approach.

Ultimately, the only way for a club to stay alive in a sustainable manner is to put the huge amount of work into setting up and running a junior section. But again, without international cricket on FTA tv, kids fail to fully engage, drift off into other activities, and this ends up being incredibly hard work for very little positive outcome.

Poaching has probably always gone on but does seem to be on the rise and mainly again from the bigger clubs. Generally they claim it's to better a player etc but realistically it's to boost their sides and hten they can claim to be a good club. Anyway, poaching will only get worse as paid players becomes more normalised.

As for the colts, has it realistically ever been any different?  x number play as kids when parents basically force them to go and hten when they reach 16+ they realise they don't have to play it and so drift away.. Is that not just a natural thing? rather than the result of formats, start times etc etc..

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SLA

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Re: Are there too many Cricket clubs?
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2018, 02:34:40 PM »

We have a "thriving colts setup" on the face of it, with All Stars, sides for under 9s through to under 15's and a coalition with 2 other clubs for an under 17 side. But the retention rate is virtually non-existent.

From an age group who had 2 under 15 sides and competition for places in the teams, so 26 kids who played regular colts cricket, how many players do you think carried on once their Friday night T20's finished, and are still involved in the club?

The answer, 2. And that's seen as a good year...

Yup. Same story at every club I speak to. Hundreds and hundreds of unpaid manhours (and hundreds of on equipment etc) are spent on coaching kids, and if you're lucky, you might get a conversion rate of 1 kid in 20 goes on to play semi-regular adult cricket - and this is at friendly, welcoming, well-run clubs. Most kids disappear at some point between 12 and 16.


Bottom line is, now that cricket is no longer on the tv, it's lost its reputation as a mainstream sport that "normal people" play.  Cricket is seen as a weird sport for posh people. A lot of our teenage players enjoy playing cricket, but have absolutely no interest in professional cricket whatsoever. There is a real stigma about cricket now. A lot of our players have admitted they'd be mortified if their school friends found out they played cricket and would think they were weird.





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SLA

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Re: Are there too many Cricket clubs?
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2018, 02:42:08 PM »


As for the colts, has it realistically ever been any different?  x number play as kids when parents basically force them to go and hten when they reach 16+ they realise they don't have to play it and so drift away.. Is that not just a natural thing? rather than the result of formats, start times etc etc..

I think its always been the case that kids drop out of activities, but the rate of drop-outs has become unprecedented. Whereas it used to be that maybe 75% of kids would drop out, now its 95%. That's quite a big difference, that adds up over a few years.

When I was a kid, me and most of my mates not only played cricket, but also watched it on the tv and supported England. Being interested in cricket never had a stigma attached to it (at least not where I grew up in the midlands).

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RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie

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Re: Are there too many Cricket clubs?
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2018, 02:50:53 PM »

I think its always been the case that kids drop out of activities, but the rate of drop-outs has become unprecedented. Whereas it used to be that maybe 75% of kids would drop out, now its 95%. That's quite a big difference, that adds up over a few years.

When I was a kid, me and most of my mates not only played cricket, but also watched it on the tv and supported England. Being interested in cricket never had a stigma attached to it (at least not where I grew up in the midlands).

In a world where you can literally do whatever I'm not sure I agree about stigma but hey, I suspect there will be truth in it as there are many reasons.

As always, we can literally list out the reasons why people might not/stop playing and I suspect not one on it's own in the reason but an aggregation of reasons

Are there too many clubs?? Not really.. Simple fact is there are less and less players so when clubs claim to be growing you can bet that they are essentially destroying another club. Not that they will care but it is the reality. If you want to save clubs then there needs to be a limit on adult teams per club.. If you feel less bigger clubs is the answer, then the league simply need to create some more strict rules on umpires, scorers, facilities and having to have 2/3 senior sides and youth sides to get into the top leagues.

Simply depends what each player wants. If you are at a big club you'll think they are great, if you aren't.. you won't. Personally, I feel there is no answer and all we can do is try to provide as much different format cricket as possible. Evenings 2020, sat league draw + 2020 league and sunday 2020 league and sunday friendlies. That literally provides the formats for all and the necessary formats to develop the skills required. Players can literally choose what suits their mentality/preference then.

2020 on astro most likely as it's cheaper and simpler to put on (otherwise the cost to put on a 2020 is prohibitive)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 02:55:07 PM by RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie »
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SLA

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Re: Are there too many Cricket clubs?
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2018, 04:03:50 PM »

In a world where you can literally do whatever I'm not sure I agree about stigma but hey, I suspect there will be truth in it as there are many reasons.

As always, we can literally list out the reasons why people might not/stop playing and I suspect not one on it's own in the reason but an aggregation of reasons

Are there too many clubs?? Not really.. Simple fact is there are less and less players so when clubs claim to be growing you can bet that they are essentially destroying another club. Not that they will care but it is the reality. If you want to save clubs then there needs to be a limit on adult teams per club.. If you feel less bigger clubs is the answer, then the league simply need to create some more strict rules on umpires, scorers, facilities and having to have 2/3 senior sides and youth sides to get into the top leagues.

Simply depends what each player wants. If you are at a big club you'll think they are great, if you aren't.. you won't. Personally, I feel there is no answer and all we can do is try to provide as much different format cricket as possible. Evenings 2020, sat league draw + 2020 league and sunday 2020 league and sunday friendlies. That literally provides the formats for all and the necessary formats to develop the skills required. Players can literally choose what suits their mentality/preference then.

2020 on astro most likely as it's cheaper and simpler to put on (otherwise the cost to put on a 2020 is prohibitive)

That's not entirely true - my club has grown over the past few years, but we've done it by bringing in people who weren't playing cricket at all - often persuading parents of kids in the junior section to strap the pads on for the first time in 30 years.


Cost to put on a T20 is 50 to hire a pitch for the evening + 5 for a ball. Ask for a fiver from every player and you've made a 55 profit.

If you've got your own ground, cost is nothing. Just re-use Saturday's pitch.


Cricket clubs naturally diverge into a multiplicity of sizes depending on their ambition and the size of their catchment area. A big city club with a swanky pavilion with a bar and ambitions of playing ECB Premier League Cricket is not going to have the same needs as a pub or office team looking to play a handful of friendly games each summer. There is room in the game for both, and everything in between.


I've played cricket at every type of club all across the UK, I definitely think smaller is better. 4 or 5 team clubs where players constantly get shunted around between teams, and none of the 1st team socialise with any of the 4th team etc, are a bit crap.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 04:05:43 PM by SLA »
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iand123

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Re: Are there too many Cricket clubs?
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2018, 06:50:23 PM »

I think the real problem is that there are too few players.

Sky TV (has great coverage but) has a lot to answer for.

Do you mean the ECB? They made the decision sell the rights to Sky, Sky didnt hold a gun to their head!
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edge

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Re: Are there too many Cricket clubs?
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2018, 07:54:21 PM »

One factor I never see mentioned in lack of availability problems is the prospect for some club 2nd XI players of an away game vs generic big club 4th/5th XI. We've all been there at one time or another - you turn up and it's a crap school ground or a field 10 minutes walk from the actual club pavilion, you have to drag your kit bag over and pad up on the boundary before marching out to face a side who've only got 10 players, only two of whom are aged between 14 and 65, and realise you've agreed to spend the next 6 hours here... and this is if they haven't forfeited that week. Meanwhile small club down the road with a decent ground they've played on for 80 years but no clubmark certificate are folding their seconds because they're struggling to get a team out. I think you can guess my views on big vs small clubs ha, but there's obviously a balance to be found. Round where I play it definitely isn't being found! (absolutely not a dig at anyone in particular before any forum members who play for larger clubs near me get offended ;))
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SLA

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Re: Are there too many Cricket clubs?
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2018, 09:04:02 PM »

One factor I never see mentioned in lack of availability problems is the prospect for some club 2nd XI players of an away game vs generic big club 4th/5th XI. We've all been there at one time or another - you turn up and it's a crap school ground or a field 10 minutes walk from the actual club pavilion, you have to drag your kit bag over and pad up on the boundary before marching out to face a side who've only got 10 players, only two of whom are aged between 14 and 65, and realise you've agreed to spend the next 6 hours here... and this is if they haven't forfeited that week. Meanwhile small club down the road with a decent ground they've played on for 80 years but no clubmark certificate are folding their seconds because they're struggling to get a team out. I think you can guess my views on big vs small clubs ha, but there's obviously a balance to be found. Round where I play it definitely isn't being found! (absolutely not a dig at anyone in particular before any forum members who play for larger clubs near me get offended ;))

We're not going to do it, but for the first time ever, the idea of withdrawing from the league and just playing a series of bilateral friendly games against local rivals who we actually trust to put our a team and play the game in the right spiriy, was floated.

Speaks volumes that this is even being discussed as an outside option.
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Are there too many Cricket clubs?
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2018, 07:27:14 AM »

One factor I never see mentioned in lack of availability problems is the prospect for some club 2nd XI players of an away game vs generic big club 4th/5th XI. We've all been there at one time or another - you turn up and it's a crap school ground or a field 10 minutes walk from the actual club pavilion, you have to drag your kit bag over and pad up on the boundary before marching out to face a side who've only got 10 players, only two of whom are aged between 14 and 65, and realise you've agreed to spend the next 6 hours here... and this is if they haven't forfeited that week. Meanwhile small club down the road with a decent ground they've played on for 80 years but no clubmark certificate are folding their seconds because they're struggling to get a team out. I think you can guess my views on big vs small clubs ha, but there's obviously a balance to be found. Round where I play it definitely isn't being found! (absolutely not a dig at anyone in particular before any forum members who play for larger clubs near me get offended ;))


This post sums up my   club.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 07:33:50 AM by Seniorplayer »
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Are there too many Cricket clubs?
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2018, 07:31:41 AM »

We're not going to do it, but for the first time ever, the idea of withdrawing from the league and just playing a series of bilateral friendly games against local rivals who we actually trust to put our a team and play the game in the right spiriy, was floated.

Speaks volumes that this is even being discussed as an outside option.

I think it's a great idea but  would you be able to fill a   Fixture card  with  friendly matches
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