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Author Topic: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions  (Read 1541 times)

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RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie

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Re: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2019, 02:55:44 PM »

I dont like the fact there being punished for messages sent in private, if they checked every player in the England team I guarantee they would find stuff just as bad

If you are in a position like they are as pro sportsmen just assume nothing is private and dont do it. Fairly simple.

After all, its a short career and very well paid so hardly asking much to behave is it
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edge

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Re: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2019, 03:23:43 PM »

Who selects the Lions, presumably not Smith? Pair of very surprising selections, although tbf there's always more to Lions picks than just merit. Guessing Moores and Jacks don't have overseas playing gigs this winter, can think of at least a couple of players who would surely get selected ahead of them who are playing abroad atm.
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SD

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Re: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2019, 04:59:32 PM »

The ECB has really boxed itself into a corner with these ridiculous over the top reactions in recent times.  When I booked tickets for a number of games this summer I did so because I enjoy the experience of watching England play entertaining cricket, not because I am hoping to see 11 upstanding Mary Whitehouse's take to the field. 

I would aver that you would struggle to find any teenager or early twenties who hasn't been part of a group chat which contains inappropriate content at some point.  Some of these people will go on to hold actual positions of responsibility.  The idea that because you make a living playing a game somehow requires different moral standards than those who became doctors, serve in the emergency services or military, become judges or politicians etc is laughable. 
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Buzz

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Re: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2019, 06:46:19 PM »

Just because chat is accepted, does not make it acceptable.
Discussing how you rape someone is disgusting.
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jonny77

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Re: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2019, 07:05:09 PM »

Just because chat is accepted, does not make it acceptable.
Discussing how you rape someone is disgusting.

Is that what was in the chat?
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Manormanic

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Re: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2019, 07:29:57 PM »

Just because chat is accepted, does not make it acceptable.
Discussing how you rape someone is disgusting.

It is, though I wasn't aware that that was the disputed content.
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RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie

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Re: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2019, 08:11:39 PM »

The ECB has really boxed itself into a corner with these ridiculous over the top reactions in recent times.  When I booked tickets for a number of games this summer I did so because I enjoy the experience of watching England play entertaining cricket, not because I am hoping to see 11 upstanding Mary Whitehouse's take to the field. 

I would aver that you would struggle to find any teenager or early twenties who hasn't been part of a group chat which contains inappropriate content at some point.  Some of these people will go on to hold actual positions of responsibility.  The idea that because you make a living playing a game somehow requires different moral standards than those who became doctors, serve in the emergency services or military, become judges or politicians etc is laughable.

There are a lot of jobs where yes.. this sort of thing will see you never get a job or fired ...

They are in a job which is highly paid and for a short duration (ie., not like most who will have to work until 60+) .. I dont think its unreasonable to act properly. Wait until you arent a sportsman to go do these things.

I dont want thugs, cheats and these types of people representing the country.. that is what they would be doing for englsnd. Then county wise is the same ..

There is a reason PR spin is always looking to hide things like this.... politicians will to out of their way to hide past indescresions as itll destroy their careers etc ..

« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 08:14:56 PM by RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie »
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SD

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Re: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2019, 10:31:59 PM »



There is a reason PR spin is always looking to hide things like this.... politicians will to out of their way to hide past indescresions as itll destroy their careers etc ..

Doesn't seem to be a bar to becoming president of the United States or being appointed to their Supreme Court .... At least in this country it would stop someone from being elected as an MP becoming mayor of our capital city or holding one of the 3 great offices of state ...

I wonder what sort of career Ian Botham would have had if working under today's puritanical standards.  I am guessing that the 81 Ashes were ruined for most people because of Beefy taking part despite his drug taking and adultery. Ditto the 2005 Ashes what with Freddie's alcohol related indiscretions.  Or maybe people simply enjoyed them for what they were as terrific sporting contests played out by individuals who had a life outside of playing a game which other people liked to watch. 


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LateBloomer

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Re: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2019, 10:57:22 PM »

Im surprised anyone can find a reason to defend this sort of behaviour. But again, says alot about the people doing the defending. I personally think the punishment fits the crime for Mr Clarke, not like his career has been ended but enough to make him buck his ideas up

Hepburn can count himself fortunate so far with the no verdict

Botham was slightly different as although no doubt he was wild I dont think pre-planned sexual assault was ever on his agenda
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jonny77

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Re: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2019, 11:17:54 PM »

Not sure who's defending anything. Anyone who has committed any kind of sexual offence deserves to be punished accordingly in line with the law. However it seems TKC and Clarke were mentioned as being part of a WhatsApp group which had some discussion in it 'detailing sexuasl exploits. At present i don't think there are any further details available, so its difficult to find TKC or Clark guilty of anything surely? Hepburn has not yet been found guilty either, so some pretty big assumptions are being made all round here.
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SD

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Re: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2019, 12:02:10 AM »

Im surprised anyone can find a reason to defend this sort of behaviour. But again, says alot about the people doing the defending. I personally think the punishment fits the crime for Mr Clarke, not like his career has been ended but enough to make him buck his ideas up

Hepburn can count himself fortunate so far with the no verdict

Botham was slightly different as although no doubt he was wild I dont think pre-planned sexual assault was ever on his agenda

I am not sure on what basis anyone can say that Hepburn can count himself lucky apart from those who have sat through all the evidence presented to the court unless they are happy to make wild baseless speculation about a very serious offence.  I can't see that anyone had defended his behaviour, which is unsurprising seeing as his case is awaiting a retrial. And of course this thread is about TKC and Clarke, neither of whom have been subject to any suggestion of having committed a sexual offence, not least a pre-planned sexual assault.  To suggest that anyone backing these two players are therefore excusing rape is abhorrent in my view.

What it boils down to is whether being part of a group chat with some irresponsible things being said in private is a reason to withdraw 2 players from a touring party.  There would be a real irony in someone criticising such behaviour by making irresponsible and potentially libellous public comments. Would certainly say a lot about that person. 
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LateBloomer

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Re: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2019, 12:48:12 AM »

I am not sure on what basis anyone can say that Hepburn can count himself lucky apart from those who have sat through all the evidence presented to the court unless they are happy to make wild baseless speculation about a very serious offence.  I can't see that anyone had defended his behaviour, which is unsurprising seeing as his case is awaiting a retrial. And of course this thread is about TKC and Clarke, neither of whom have been subject to any suggestion of having committed a sexual offence, not least a pre-planned sexual assault.  To suggest that anyone backing these two players are therefore excusing rape is abhorrent in my view.

What it boils down to is whether being part of a group chat with some irresponsible things being said in private is a reason to withdraw 2 players from a touring party.  There would be a real irony in someone criticising such behaviour by making irresponsible and potentially libellous public comments. Would certainly say a lot about that person.

I think Hepburn is lucky on the basis that countless others have gone to prison under the same circumstances

You've turned that around well though, hats off to you  :D
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JB

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Re: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2019, 08:55:57 AM »

If the victim was your daughter, how would you feel about them discussing her rape/alleged rape?
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Sam

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Re: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2019, 09:03:12 AM »

If the victim was your daughter, how would you feel about them discussing her rape/alleged rape?

Perhaps I've missed it but has there been any kind of suggestion anywhere that rape in general or this alleged case of rape was discussed in this chat?
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jonny77

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Re: Joe Clarke and Tom Kohler-Cadmore dropped from the lions
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2019, 10:09:10 AM »

Perhaps I've missed it but has there been any kind of suggestion anywhere that rape in general or this alleged case of rape was discussed in this chat?

As far as I'm aware there has been no mention of that being the case. As I said people are leaping to conclusions here without anyone knowing the facts. If that was the case then of course that would be disgusting behaviour and would deserve the severest of punishment, regardless of it coming from a piblic figure or not. Nobody is excusing that kind of behaviour, but again nobody knows that is the case here so I think people should be careful before labelling it as such.
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