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Author Topic: The Mankad - opinions?  (Read 3685 times)

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Chompy9760

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2019, 03:52:52 PM »

Thanks to all for the replies.  I know it's a contentious issue, so I'm taking it seriously and want to make the correct judgement before instructing my players what to do and how to do it, should the situation arise again.

Both incidents this year have been blatant cases of being a metre or more outside the crease at the delivery stride.   A Mankad in either of them would certainly not be 'sneaky' like the WI U-19 one.

I get the point of giving a warning.  That was my first thought, but the more I think about it, there's a huge double standard here.

To expand on Tom's point, If a batsman took guard a metre out of the crease, would the wicket keeper feel obliged to give him a warning before stumping him??  What's the difference?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 03:54:53 PM by Chompy9760 »
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Real Munson

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2019, 04:03:21 PM »

If you are standing out of your ground in your stance, you are doing so deliberately to gain an advantage in the full knowledge you can be stumped. If you are a meter out of your crease backing up, then after a warning and keep doing it, you know you can be run out as you are trying to gain an advantage. None of the mankads on the link you posted involved people trying to gain an advantage - in my view. Appreciate everyone sees it differently - however I'm pretty sure most of us would feel more than a little aggrieved if we were the non-striker in any 3 of those examples, whether it be technically correct or not. Spirit of cricket has been a huge topic over the past 12 months and for me, this type of thing is totally against the spirit of the game.
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Tom

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2019, 04:20:23 PM »

If a player lifts his foot from the crease when batting, or leaves it by 1cm he's not trying to gain an advantage. He's just got lazy, lost their bearings or overbalanced. I will never understand how at one end of the wicket that's deemed an acceptable wicket to get, yet at the other, it's frowned upon (often more so than ball tampering).

Either something is allowed under the laws of a sport or it isnt. If you dont want people doing it make it illegal in the laws.
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Real Munson

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2019, 04:36:12 PM »

As I said, it's my view, doesn't make me right, doesn't make you wrong - you are correct that by strict interpretation, it is out. However, this mode of dismissal doesn't sit right with me - unless the batter is really taking the pi$$. The incident with Collingwood continuing his appeal in the Sidebottom/Grant Elliott incident in 2008 is the same for me - according to the Laws, it is out - however doesn't make it the right thing to do in my opinion, which Collingwood admitted himself afterwards.
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Real Munson

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2019, 04:38:35 PM »

Same goes for the underarm incident with Trevor Chappell - nothing illegal in what was done at the time but we all know how that is viewed now.
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RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2019, 04:41:32 PM »

If you leave your crease youre trying to gain an advantage by backing up. Run them out.

Batsmen should know not to leave their crease until the ball is bowled and if youre watching you know when its released.. if youre not watching but just going of when he should release it youre guessing so deserve to be runout. Its not hard to keep your bat in after all, its only hard if youre actively trying to steal a yard.

Spirit of the game is all great if consistently applied but it isnt. Sledging, Appelling for lbw when you know it hit the bat, pitched outside, was missing etc are all more acts of bad spirit.  Then you have fake throwing, throwing the ball at the stumps when the batsmen is there as it serves no purpose but to try and intimidate..

List could go on and on about bad sportsmanship or against the spirit.. the spirit is dead, more so now than ever.

Does the keeper give a warning about a stumping ?? Nope.. dont warn over mankad
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Tom

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2019, 04:45:57 PM »

I'm not saying you're wrong, just interested to know the thought process behind why one differs and one doesn't. I don't play much at all (once a season max) so have always found the spirit of cricket a funny one. Players will happily use a laminated bat, dig their fingers into the seam, or run down the middle of the pitch. But when it comes to something perfectly legal, like a mankad, it's a big no-no!

P.S I totally understand why they were frowned upon, in days gone by, where cricket was dominated by the longer forms of the game, with the game played in a less intense manner and one run here and there not making a dramatic difference. But as the game becomes shorter and more intense I'd like to see that change, there's no excuse for a non-striker to be switching off and the game is tilted enough in the direction of the batsman.
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RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2019, 04:50:48 PM »

As I said, it's my view, doesn't make me right, doesn't make you wrong - you are correct that by strict interpretation, it is out. However, this mode of dismissal doesn't sit right with me - unless the batter is really taking the pi$$. The incident with Collingwood continuing his appeal in the Sidebottom/Grant Elliott incident in 2008 is the same for me - according to the Laws, it is out - however doesn't make it the right thing to do in my opinion, which Collingwood admitted himself afterwards.

So is orcastraded appealing ok?
Appealing when it pitched outside leg? (Assume playing a shot etc)
Appealing when it hit above the knee role on the front foot ??
Appealing when it hit the inside of the bat first ?
Threatening the throw the ball at the stumps when the batsmen is in his crease ?
Sledging
Double appealing
Appealing to pile pressure on the umpire
Pretending to throw the ball in when youve miss fielded
Sliding in front of the ball just as someone is about to field it to make the bats think youve got to the ball


Where does it end ?? Why is one more acceptable than the other ??
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brokenbat

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2019, 05:01:08 PM »

Why is being stumped within the "spirit", but not mankad??
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brokenbat

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2019, 05:01:45 PM »

If a player lifts his foot from the crease when batting, or leaves it by 1cm he's not trying to gain an advantage. He's just got lazy, lost their bearings or overbalanced. I will never understand how at one end of the wicket that's deemed an acceptable wicket to get, yet at the other, it's frowned upon (often more so than ball tampering).

Either something is allowed under the laws of a sport or it isnt. If you dont want people doing it make it illegal in the laws.

Well said
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Buzz

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2019, 06:17:19 PM »

My view is that advancing down before the bowler has bowled is cheating and not in the spirit of the game, so running them out is as fair game as a stumping or any other legitimate dismissal.
The laws were changed to demonstrate that.
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shadowlight

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2019, 06:24:59 PM »

I looked at the 3 videos and the Oman v/s HK I have a hard time understanding.  The bowler was already in the process of delivering the ball and pulled out do a Mankad after rotating his arm.  Buttler had a warning and he should have know better to leave early.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 07:41:25 PM by shadowlight »
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SLA

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2019, 07:43:41 PM »

If you are standing out of your ground in your stance, you are doing so deliberately to gain an advantage in the full knowledge you can be stumped. If you are a meter out of your crease backing up, then after a warning and keep doing it, you know you can be run out as you are trying to gain an advantage. None of the mankads on the link you posted involved people trying to gain an advantage - in my view. Appreciate everyone sees it differently - however I'm pretty sure most of us would feel more than a little aggrieved if we were the non-striker in any 3 of those examples, whether it be technically correct or not. Spirit of cricket has been a huge topic over the past 12 months and for me, this type of thing is totally against the spirit of the game.

zero sense. The entire point of backing up is to try to gain an advantage, otherwise why do it?

Leave the crease early at your own risk. If you get caught, that's your fault. If you moan, even under your breath, because your somehow feel you're owed a warning, you're the one with a spirit of cricket deficit, not the bowler.

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six and out

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2019, 07:52:22 PM »

I think there needs to be a level of common sense between the 'just backing up a bit too far' and the 'blatant starting a run before the bowler has even bowled'.

There is a massive difference between the 2. I mean if you were genuinely talking about Mankadd being a proper fair form of regular dismissal then you could run someone out every over.

If you honestly think about it can you definitely say every ball you are standing there with your bat grounded in crease, because I have never tried to steal a run in my life but I definitely can't say that I was always in.
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SLA

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2019, 08:04:13 PM »

I think there needs to be a level of common sense between the 'just backing up a bit too far' and the 'blatant starting a run before the bowler has even bowled'.

There is a massive difference between the 2. I mean if you were genuinely talking about Mankadd being a proper fair form of regular dismissal then you could run someone out every over.

If you honestly think about it can you definitely say every ball you are standing there with your bat grounded in crease, because I have never tried to steal a run in my life but I definitely can't say that I was always in.

I can genuinely say with 100 % certainty that I've very very rarely left the crease early, and when I have I've been fully aware I was doing it and running the risk of being mankaded.

Had it ever happened, I'd have said fair play bowler and walked off with a rueful grin on my face.
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