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Author Topic: The Mankad - opinions?  (Read 3686 times)

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Tom

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2019, 08:19:32 PM »

I think there needs to be a level of common sense between the 'just backing up a bit too far' and the 'blatant starting a run before the bowler has even bowled'.

There is a massive difference between the 2. I mean if you were genuinely talking about Mankadd being a proper fair form of regular dismissal then you could run someone out every over.

If you honestly think about it can you definitely say every ball you are standing there with your bat grounded in crease, because I have never tried to steal a run in my life but I definitely can't say that I was always in.
But that's because the Mankad isn't a risk, you just don't have to worry about it. If batsman started getting mankaded, you can guarantee batsman would be careful about having their bat grounded just as they are with having their foot grounded when at the other end.

Anywhere else on the pitch (whether a bowler/keeper/batsman) you risk being penalised if you lose focus. But at the non-striker's end, you're not.

The whole spirit of cricket thing introduces grey areas where batsman can steal runs, without risk of penalty. If you just play by the laws then it's not a concern.
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Real Munson

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2019, 08:33:59 PM »

So the consensus is, we teach kids to Mankad/run out, just like any other mode of dismissal?
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alexhilly1492

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2019, 08:36:02 PM »

If you back up properly you leave the crease as the bowler releases rendering this redundant

However of your bowling a warning then run out!
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Real Munson

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2019, 08:38:42 PM »

So is orcastraded appealing ok?
Appealing when it pitched outside leg? (Assume playing a shot etc)
Appealing when it hit above the knee role on the front foot ??
Appealing when it hit the inside of the bat first ?
Threatening the throw the ball at the stumps when the batsmen is in his crease ?
Sledging
Double appealing
Appealing to pile pressure on the umpire
Pretending to throw the ball in when youve miss fielded
Sliding in front of the ball just as someone is about to field it to make the bats think youve got to the ball


Where does it end ?? Why is one more acceptable than the other ??


None of that is ok, didnt say it was. And fake fieldinghas been banned now, because its against the spirit of the game
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RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2019, 11:00:32 PM »

I think there needs to be a level of common sense between the 'just backing up a bit too far' and the 'blatant starting a run before the bowler has even bowled'.

There is a massive difference between the 2. I mean if you were genuinely talking about Mankadd being a proper fair form of regular dismissal then you could run someone out every over.

If you honestly think about it can you definitely say every ball you are standing there with your bat grounded in crease, because I have never tried to steal a run in my life but I definitely can't say that I was always in.

Yep, Ive never left the crease until the ball is actually bowled. However.... in 2020s or late game I have but I fully expect to get out at some point should a bowler wish.. its my risk and I decide that the reward of backing up is worth the risk of mankad..

Depends on the situation and basically if youre willing to risk it.. risk vs reward
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SD

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2019, 11:51:51 PM »

So the consensus is, we teach kids to Mankad/run out, just like any other mode of dismissal?

I would certainly hope not as it is a fairly grubby way to play the game if the players are looking out for this sort of thing.  A sensible piece of umpiring just to let the batsman know he needs to stay in his crease, possibly with a warning from the bowler if the umpire doesn't spot it should be sufficient.

I certainly wouldn't give a player out in a junior game in this manner if I was umpiring.  The spirit of cricket clearly means different things to different people but in my view this sort of thing has no place in a game between children
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edge

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2019, 12:55:33 AM »

I would certainly hope not as it is a fairly grubby way to play the game if the players are looking out for this sort of thing.  A sensible piece of umpiring just to let the batsman know he needs to stay in his crease, possibly with a warning from the bowler if the umpire doesn't spot it should be sufficient.

I certainly wouldn't give a player out in a junior game in this manner if I was umpiring.  The spirit of cricket clearly means different things to different people but in my view this sort of thing has no place in a game between children
This is the part of the anti-mankad 'spirit of cricket' thing that's always really confused me - why is it ok to try and steal yards, to cheat by running before the bowler has bowled, but it isn't ok to run someone out? I get the spirit of cricket thing, good sportsmanship makes the game better. To my mind running before the bowler's let go is far more against the spirit of the game than running someone out at the non-strikers end is. The line's there for a reason, if you're on the wrong side of it you get run out/stumped/no-balled and it's entirely your own fault, even if your opponent has been Keemo Paul level sneaky. No different from a keeper waiting for a batsman to lift their foot for a stumping, as others have mentioned.
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enlightened

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2019, 07:28:22 AM »

one warning, after that everything is fair game

This.
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SLA

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2019, 07:52:40 AM »

I would certainly hope not as it is a fairly grubby way to play the game if the players are looking out for this sort of thing.  A sensible piece of umpiring just to let the batsman know he needs to stay in his crease, possibly with a warning from the bowler if the umpire doesn't spot it should be sufficient.

I certainly wouldn't give a player out in a junior game in this manner if I was umpiring.  The spirit of cricket clearly means different things to different people but in my view this sort of thing has no place in a game between children

If you're not willing to umpire according to the laws, then you shouldn't be umpiring. Full stop. You can't just make up your own rules.
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six and out

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2019, 08:12:59 AM »

I think it would be interesting to hit the pause button on the TV during a game and see where abouts the international players are at the point of possible mankadd etc...
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SD

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2019, 08:36:51 AM »

If you're not willing to umpire according to the laws, then you shouldn't be umpiring. Full stop. You can't just make up your own rules.

The game has to be  played within both the laws of the game and the spirit of the game so it is entirely within an empire's gift to do this.  Most County Umpires Associations run umpiring courses over the winter at competitive rates if you ever want to learn the laws of the game
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SD

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2019, 08:51:01 AM »

This is the part of the anti-mankad 'spirit of cricket' thing that's always really confused me - why is it ok to try and steal yards, to cheat by running before the bowler has bowled, but it isn't ok to run someone out? I get the spirit of cricket thing, good sportsmanship makes the game better. To my mind running before the bowler's let go is far more against the spirit of the game than running someone out at the non-strikers end is. The line's there for a reason, if you're on the wrong side of it you get run out/stumped/no-balled and it's entirely your own fault, even if your opponent has been Keemo Paul level sneaky. No different from a keeper waiting for a batsman to lift their foot for a stumping, as others have mentioned.

In the majority of cases I don't believe that batsman are trying to steal extra yards , they are simply backing up as is the case in those videos at the start of the post and have left the crease at the point that they are expecting the ball to be delivered.

There are many parts of the game where sensible game management by umpires can resolve minor issues without spoiling the game.  An umpire doesn't have to tell a bowler he is close to the front line or the danger zone, or tell the fielding captain that he doesn't have enough players in the fielding circle during a limited overs game but a sensible umpire will know when a quick word will deal with problem.

For me, Mankading is a bit like trying to time a player out.  Plainly the laws would permit an appeal if the batsman doesn't enter the field of play within the alloted time (or in the t20 games I play in, enters the field of play before the departing batsman has left it) but I haven't yet played in a game where anyone has seriously considered enforcing this law
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Boondougal

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2019, 09:14:55 AM »

I like this topic as I think it's become one of those elements of the game people are trying to hold onto it as a sign that the "spirit of the game" is still alive. I think its the wrong way to look at it, As a kid I was taught to back up but with my bat still grounded behind the crease, you very rarely see that these days and the advent of run a ball cricket has resulted in the non striker basically taking an advantage.... I have no problem with the advantage if you are happy to accept the risk of being run out.... after all the game is all about risk and application.

Last year I attended a number of sessions with Kieth Tunnicliffe who I believe is an umpiring coach and he was very clear no the subject.. its a valid form of dismissal and there is no where in the rules that requires a warning.... after all we don't warn for any other form of dismissal so why this one.

Just like the new rules for deception in the field etc when the game has moved on to be so fast every player will push the boundaries and this element of the game(and peoples attitudes towards it) needs to move on also.

Personally the spirit of the game is far more hurt in other areas such as the language / threats used on the field, the lack of respect and recognition for an opposition players achievement such as a 50 or a great stop in the field.... and the influx of 2/3 player teams - basically those teams chasing results by getting a small number of outstanding players who do everything like open the the bowling and the batting... no wonder we struggle to attract players in those situations and for me when teams no longer need everyone or can allow everyone in the team to contribute... is when the spirit is lost.

We should set up a "Mankad" (hate that word also) tally thread, see who can get the most in a season - individual and team scores. Batters get -1 and the person with the lowest number could win a Extra long handled bat to help them back up more appropriately next season :-)



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SLA

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2019, 10:35:18 AM »

The game has to be  played within both the laws of the game and the spirit of the game so it is entirely within an empire's gift to do this.  Most County Umpires Associations run umpiring courses over the winter at competitive rates if you ever want to learn the laws of the game

I've been a qualified umpire for 15 years, thanks.

The mcc have clarified, repeatedly, that mankading is within both the spirit and the laws of cricket. Its as normal and acceptable as stumping. No warning is necessary, and the umpire should not hesitate to dismiss a batsmen caught or of his crease.

Don't like that, go officiate some other sport. We could do without umpires who think they're above the game.

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SLA

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Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2019, 10:41:07 AM »

I like this topic as I think it's become one of those elements of the game people are trying to hold onto it as a sign that the "spirit of the game" is still alive. I think its the wrong way to look at it, As a kid I was taught to back up but with my bat still grounded behind the crease, you very rarely see that these days and the advent of run a ball cricket has resulted in the non striker basically taking an advantage.... I have no problem with the advantage if you are happy to accept the risk of being run out.... after all the game is all about risk and application.

Last year I attended a number of sessions with Kieth Tunnicliffe who I believe is an umpiring coach and he was very clear no the subject.. its a valid form of dismissal and there is no where in the rules that requires a warning.... after all we don't warn for any other form of dismissal so why this one.

Just like the new rules for deception in the field etc when the game has moved on to be so fast every player will push the boundaries and this element of the game(and peoples attitudes towards it) needs to move on also.

Personally the spirit of the game is far more hurt in other areas such as the language / threats used on the field, the lack of respect and recognition for an opposition players achievement such as a 50 or a great stop in the field.... and the influx of 2/3 player teams - basically those teams chasing results by getting a small number of outstanding players who do everything like open the the bowling and the batting... no wonder we struggle to attract players in those situations and for me when teams no longer need everyone or can allow everyone in the team to contribute... is when the spirit is lost.

We should set up a "Mankad" (hate that word also) tally thread, see who can get the most in a season - individual and team scores. Batters get -1 and the person with the lowest number could win a Extra long handled bat to help them back up more appropriately next season :-)

You know what is really dispicable and contrary to the spirit of cricket? A young player who has learnt the laws, paid attention, and skillfully dismissed an opponent  through a correct mankading and earnt his team a wicket, only to be humiliated by some arrogant umpire and falsely accused of cheating.

There's no place in the game for that. Any umpire willing to publicly humiliate a child in such a manner should be removed from the game immediately and never asked to stand again.
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