Advertise on CBF

Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11

Author Topic: The Mankad - opinions?  (Read 2102 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

JK Lewis

Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #120 on: March 14, 2019, 06:05:00 PM »

And where is Mankad now?
Does he know we are still arguing passionately in his name?  :)

Mankad died in 1978. Considering the volume of the debate in here over the past 24 hours, if he thought he'd been forgotten he's probably woken up to it again now.
Logged

SLA

  • County 2nd XI
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 392
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #121 on: March 14, 2019, 06:10:17 PM »

I am neither a parent of any of our jnr players as mine are to young, i certainly dont suffer over competitiveness, am very proud to be British and am well under the age of 45. I am however I seasoned cricketer, and simply dont agree with your views or the fact you dont listen to anyones views and force yours on to others and when they disagree acccuse them of being wrong or in some way stupid.
I will end this conversation with you and others with your views as your are entitled to those views as are others but once again the forum is following foul to people who do not wish to accept to listen to others views, and abuse or put down anyone who dares to do so.
There was another forum member much like yourself a few years back, i wonder if your related!!!


Lol, the hypocrisy. This argument is literally me saying "you don't have the right to impose your personal opinion as to the morality of mankading onto other players" vs you saying "yes I do".
Logged
40-over Cricket: 150* off 108, 8-3-19-7
T20 Cricket: 127* off 64, 4-1-12-6
Countries played cricket in so far: 6

edge

  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3705
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #122 on: March 14, 2019, 09:46:48 PM »

Well it's good to see this has stayed civil...

So you think turning your arm over, not letting go of it, following through the action, turning around, throwing down the stumps - is ok? you and your team mates would be ok with it if it happened to them? It wouldn't kick off? If that happened in any league match I played in, there would be uproar, no matter if by strict interpretation, it's allowed.
That would be not out. If you pretend to bowl and don't let go of it, it's dead ball and you can't run batsmen out. There's no possible deception, the laws are quite clear on that.

I honestly don't get it... not that I mankad people all the time, but can anyone actually explain why it's against the spirit/wrong/morally dubious/anything else it's been called on here? A batsman can only be out if he's not in his crease when he should be, same as every other type of runout. At absolute worst the bowler is taking advantage of someone being dozy, which fair enough isn't the friendliest way to carry on but there's hardly anything you can complain about.
Logged
HS: 126, BB: 7-20

SD

  • County 2nd XI
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 469
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #123 on: March 14, 2019, 11:02:39 PM »

We may not have have the Ashes if it wasn't for WG Grace running out Sammy Jones in the only test the 1882 tour so  we can at least ascribe one good thing that poor sportsmanship - and an act that was entirely within the laws of the game - has given us.  Otherwise, the problem with the spirit of the game is that it means different things to different people.
Logged

Real Munson

  • Village Cricketer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #124 on: March 15, 2019, 07:59:52 AM »

Well it's good to see this has stayed civil...
That would be not out. If you pretend to bowl and don't let go of it, it's dead ball and you can't run batsmen out. There's no possible deception, the laws are quite clear on that.

I honestly don't get it... not that I mankad people all the time, but can anyone actually explain why it's against the spirit/wrong/morally dubious/anything else it's been called on here? A batsman can only be out if he's not in his crease when he should be, same as every other type of runout. At absolute worst the bowler is taking advantage of someone being dozy, which fair enough isn't the friendliest way to carry on but there's hardly anything you can complain about.

So why the uproar about the Trevor Chappell incident? That was done within the laws of the game but was widely condemned at the time and still is today.
Logged

LateBloomer

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 537
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #125 on: March 15, 2019, 08:10:41 AM »

We had this early last season in a T20 game, bowler ran out our non striker fairly according to the new wording

Umpire looked around the field to ask if the skipper wished to uphold the appeal to which the bowler replied - I am the skipper and hes out! We could tell that the umpire wasnt comfortable with it but had to give it out according to the laws

Interestingly the strongest protester was our Overseas player who I had to physically restrain at change of innings whilst he repeatedly shouted that the bowler was a crap bloke! Was all fairly comical really

For me the phrase 'spirit of cricket' just blurs the lines between legal and illegal. Im happy to play according to the laws of the game, dont think you can pick and choose which you follow and which you ignore
Logged

SLA

  • County 2nd XI
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 392
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #126 on: March 15, 2019, 09:14:15 AM »

So why the uproar about the Trevor Chappell incident? That was done within the laws of the game but was widely condemned at the time and still is today.

The point is that its fundamentally unworkable to have something that is within the laws but outside of the spirit. It needs to be either both or neither. So any such examples have to be either made illegal in the laws, or agreed by everyone to be perfectly fair and acceptable and within the spirit.


In the Chappell incident, we went one way, and changed the law so that rolling the ball was a no-ball; in the Mankad incident, we've gone in the other direction, and clarified that yes Mankadding is definitely within both the laws and the spirit so non-strikers should stop whining and start paying attention.


Of course, there are still a few old bigots who refuse to accept the official consensus view (although they're unable to make a coherent case as to why not), but we just have to ignore them, they'll all be dead soon anyway. They're just the modern-day equivalent of the old bluffers who wanted the googly banned, or who thought hitting the ball through the leg side was a sign of moral turpitude.





Logged
40-over Cricket: 150* off 108, 8-3-19-7
T20 Cricket: 127* off 64, 4-1-12-6
Countries played cricket in so far: 6

six and out

  • International Captain
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1344
  • Trade Count: (0)
    • MKCC website
Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #127 on: March 15, 2019, 09:29:08 AM »

A lot of people on this thread have been talking about the Spirit of Cricket in one form or another, so I thought I would actually put on here what it is in terms of in the MCC Laws - Preamble.

https://www.lords.org/mcc/laws/preamble-to-the-laws-spirit-of-cricket

"Cricket owes much of its appeal and enjoyment to the fact that it should be played not only according to the Laws, but also within the Spirit of Cricket. 

The major responsibility for ensuring fair play rests with the captains, but extends to all players, umpires and, especially in junior cricket, teachers, coaches and parents.

Respect is central to the Spirit of Cricket.

Respect your captain, team-mates, opponents and the authority of the umpires.

Play hard and play fair.

Accept the umpires decision.

Create a positive atmosphere by your own conduct, and encourage others to do likewise.

Show self-discipline, even when things go against you.

Congratulate the opposition on their successes, and enjoy those of your own team.

Thank the officials and your opposition at the end of the match, whatever the result.

Cricket is an exciting game that encourages leadership, friendship and teamwork, which brings together people from different nationalities, cultures and religions, especially when played within the Spirit of Cricket."
Logged

Northern monkey

  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2957
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #128 on: March 15, 2019, 11:00:52 AM »

Crikey, a lot of posts on this!

I remember an incident many many moons ago
A crucial cup game , the oppos were backing up stupidly and warned many times, but our captain who was bowling, eventually removed the bails.
This caused a huge controversy at the time, the team we were playing had a large crowd of several hundred spectators who ere pretty vocal, as were the team we were playing

The big thing tho, was our own team,,,this literally split the team, and the club eventually fell apart because of that one decision.
It really does put into question the spirit of the game in a lot of peoples minds
Logged
Oxfordshire cricket bats

SLA

  • County 2nd XI
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 392
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #129 on: March 15, 2019, 11:34:17 AM »

Crikey, a lot of posts on this!

I remember an incident many many moons ago
A crucial cup game , the oppos were backing up stupidly and warned many times, but our captain who was bowling, eventually removed the bails.
This caused a huge controversy at the time, the team we were playing had a large crowd of several hundred spectators who ere pretty vocal, as were the team we were playing

The big thing tho, was our own team,,,this literally split the team, and the club eventually fell apart because of that one decision.
It really does put into question the spirit of the game in a lot of peoples minds


Hence the need for complete clarity and a definitive answer to prevent these arguments ever happening again. Helpfully, the MCC have provided one, the matter is settled once and for all, so we can all stop arguing and move on.

Logged
40-over Cricket: 150* off 108, 8-3-19-7
T20 Cricket: 127* off 64, 4-1-12-6
Countries played cricket in so far: 6

Real Munson

  • Village Cricketer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #130 on: March 15, 2019, 11:52:41 AM »

"Cricket owes much of its appeal and enjoyment to the fact that it should be played not only according to the Laws, but also within the Spirit of Cricket"

What is clear is that the Spirit of Cricket means different things to different people. Which is fine, I have no issue with people that play the game differently to me - that's their choice - but if someone wants to be an abusive sledger on the field, constantly appealing from square leg, insists on carrying through with a mankad or timed out dismissal, I won't be having a chat and a beer with them after.

I look forward to numerous tales of Mankad dismissals throughout the season, via this forum.

And this coming from someone that's just turned 40, not a bigot and have no intentions of leaving this planet anytime soon.
Logged

six and out

  • International Captain
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1344
  • Trade Count: (0)
    • MKCC website
Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #131 on: March 15, 2019, 12:18:17 PM »


Hence the need for complete clarity and a definitive answer to prevent these arguments ever happening again. Helpfully, the MCC have provided one, the matter is settled once and for all, so we can all stop arguing and move on.

Can I just ask SLA, you keep on referencing the MCC providing a specific statement about the mankadd and its relationship to the spirit of cricket. Do you mind sharing it please because I can't find it anywhere and am interested what it says.
Logged

Tom

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5317
  • Trade Count: (+33)
    • www.cricketinsight.co.uk
Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #132 on: March 15, 2019, 12:22:02 PM »

Spirit of Cricket clearly does mean different things to different people, but I'm still surprised that this one is even up for debate.

A mankad punishes cheating (stealing yards), cheating is quite clearly against the spirit of cricket, so how is the one preventing that cheating in the wrong?
Logged

Tom

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5317
  • Trade Count: (+33)
    • www.cricketinsight.co.uk
Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #133 on: March 15, 2019, 12:27:19 PM »

Can I just ask SLA, you keep on referencing the MCC providing a specific statement about the mankadd and its relationship to the spirit of cricket. Do you mind sharing it please because I can't find it anywhere and am interested what it says.
The MCC website has recently been updated so the statement has gone missing. But you can find it linked here:
https://www.facebook.com/icc/posts/1776520389033716

The title of the blog post at the time was "Not against the law, not against the spirit"
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 12:29:56 PM by Tom »
Logged

SLA

  • County 2nd XI
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 392
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The Mankad - opinions?
« Reply #134 on: March 15, 2019, 12:37:58 PM »

Can I just ask SLA, you keep on referencing the MCC providing a specific statement about the mankadd and its relationship to the spirit of cricket. Do you mind sharing it please because I can't find it anywhere and am interested what it says.

As Tom says, the actual press release "not against the laws, not against the spirit" has disappeared.

however, I found this in an online article: the MCC statement:

"It is often the bowler who is criticised for attempting such a run out but it is the batsman who is attempting to gain an advantage,
The message to the non-striker is very clear if you do not want to risk being run out, stay within your ground until the bowler has released the ball."


and for the record, seeing as this is what this thread was originally about, Cricket Australia explicitly state that encouraging mankads is integral in teaching the correct spirit of cricket at the junior level:

Their statement:

"At a junior level, it's really easy to coach: From the time the bowler starts his run-up, if you take off, well you can just get run out. It's the definition of trying to play within the spirit of the game and if you don't, you can face the consequences."
Logged
40-over Cricket: 150* off 108, 8-3-19-7
T20 Cricket: 127* off 64, 4-1-12-6
Countries played cricket in so far: 6
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11
 

Advertise on CBF