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Author Topic: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket  (Read 880 times)

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SLA

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Re: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2019, 04:34:49 PM »

The shorter the format, the less people participate as you always get 2-3 stars doing the batt/bowling/keeping so each team needs 2-3 make weights who are happy to do nothing. This type of person is getting rarer.

Just need to ensure all formats are catered for

Sat league system
Div 1-4 draw
Rest 45 win lose

Parallel system for casual players
2020 on Astro with retire at 30. Keeps it cheap, quick and ensures participation as more players per game get a gig and no player dominates.

Sundays
Run the same again or simply leave teams to have friendlies

This will mean every player can pick what suits and if players still dont choose to play then we/ECB has to accept that maybe they just dont want to play


I can tell you what works for the club I run, but other clubs may be different:



2 Saturday teams, both playing 40 over cricket. One decent standard, one less so. Everyone in both teams likes 40 overs on Saturdays and there is zero appetite for anything longer or shorter.


2 T20 teams that each play once a week, the better team plays midweek, about half the games are retire at 25, half aren't. (We prefer to play this but sometimes our oppo refuse). The 2nd team play a mixture of midweek and Sunday lunchtimes, all games are retire at 25 and about half the team are teenagers.


The idea being that kids move from the junior section into the 2nd T20 team, then they might choose to start playing Saturdays, or they might just keep playing T20s indefinitely.

it works for us, we're one of the only clubs that is growing in our county.

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dt-second-hand-cricket

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Re: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2019, 04:41:02 PM »

i always thought an adult version of the pairs cricket that U13s played (8 a side - 4 overs per pair etc) would have been a good thing on a sunday -  the old start on 200 you lose 5 runs for being out - that was great fun - even as the youngest in the team ('just don't get out lad' - were the words of my coach! and then as an older player later on with the responsibility of trying to get a lot of runs - ah happy days!!!

and everyone batted and everyone bowled - i always felt like i'd done something good for the team and wasn't a 'spare' part - i think nearly all the kids did too that i played with and against felt they had done something worthwhile for the majority of the games
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 04:44:33 PM by dt-second-hand-cricket »
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dt-second-hand-cricket

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Re: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2019, 04:52:15 PM »

always thought (in my area - i don't know about other areas) that the fact that junior cricket stops when schools stop doesn't help as well as many kids stop playing for the entire summer holiday, unless they are in senior teams and often that means that as has been said they only play longer saturday cricket where they can sometimes be just used as a fielder - we had a 16 yr old make his first team debut this year and only field as their have been issues with second team players moving up and not doing anything at my club for 15 yrs so this lad had to fill in - his mum, dad and grandma came to watch him make his debut - just to see him field - in a game where our 1s won by 8 wickets with 10 overs to spare, there was plenty of chances to let him even have 1 or 2 overs - and mentally the oppo had a left arm spinner who was younger bowl 10 overs!!!
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SLA

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Re: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2019, 04:58:57 PM »

always thought (in my area - i don't know about other areas) that the fact that junior cricket stops when schools stop doesn't help as well as many kids stop playing for the entire summer holiday, unless they are in senior teams and often that means that as has been said they only play longer saturday cricket where they can sometimes be just used as a fielder - we had a 16 yr old make his first team debut this year and only field as their have been issues with second team players moving up and not doing anything at my club for 15 yrs so this lad had to fill in - his mum, dad and grandma came to watch him make his debut - just to see him field - in a game where our 1s won by 8 wickets with 10 overs to spare, there was plenty of chances to let him even have 1 or 2 overs - and mentally the oppo had a left arm spinner who was younger bowl 10 overs!!!

Yeah, this is something that clubs rapidly need to improve on. Its very difficult to hold onto young players anyway, and things like this really don't help.


I'm relaxed about organised junior leagues finishing when school finishes. I once tried to run junior fixtures through the summer holidays and had to cancel virtually every single one as at any given time at least half the team seemed to be away on holiday. Its better to use this time to try and integrate the older juniors into an appropriate level of adult cricket, which unequivocally isn't going to be a 40-over league game.

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strang

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Re: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2019, 08:06:04 AM »

There is definitely a participation gap in 50/50 cricket. If you are a batsman and get out cheap, you can feel like you are just making up the numbers, sitting out on the boundary the whole game.
I played indoor cricket a few times over this winter and it is good for participation. People I played with kept knocking it, but I thought it was clever the way you got your 25 runs and then you had to retire till the end when you could come in again. Made if feel like everyone was going to get a go, which they did.
Back in the day, Australia had Kanga Cricket which was a similar format to some that have been described here, where everyone had to face a certain number of overs, and I remember it brought a lot of kids into the game that wouldn't have felt confident. Something like this should definitely be looked at in schools.
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SLA

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Re: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2019, 09:21:00 AM »

There is definitely a participation gap in 50/50 cricket. If you are a batsman and get out cheap, you can feel like you are just making up the numbers, sitting out on the boundary the whole game.
I played indoor cricket a few times over this winter and it is good for participation. People I played with kept knocking it, but I thought it was clever the way you got your 25 runs and then you had to retire till the end when you could come in again. Made if feel like everyone was going to get a go, which they did.
Back in the day, Australia had Kanga Cricket which was a similar format to some that have been described here, where everyone had to face a certain number of overs, and I remember it brought a lot of kids into the game that wouldn't have felt confident. Something like this should definitely be looked at in schools.



We played a few seasons of indoor cricket, but its a flawed game tbh. The game is so much about smashing the ball back straight past the bowler, anything pitched up or outside off goes, but if you've got 4 quickish bowlers who just stick it in at the ribs, you will never lose a game.


Plus, all that weird straight slogging messes with your batting technique, and fielding is broken finger central.


I'd rather just have a few months away from cricket altogether to allow my bowling shoulder to recuperate.


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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2019, 09:55:09 AM »

40/45/50-over games are fun if you're the one bowling a 10 over spell and/or scoring a ton.


I would imagine so.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2019, 09:59:10 AM »

Could it not be argued that there is too much choice in terms of formats?
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strang

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Re: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2019, 11:52:45 AM »

SLA system sounds pretty encouraging to new players. Coming back to the game, I would welcome the democratic 25 runs rule.
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Psi

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Re: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2019, 02:17:52 PM »

I think it could have a role in pre season friendlies, so everyone gets a go. But otherwise it's just too far from the 'real' game to be satisfying (I'm also a returning player who had to put up with a couple of ducks and low scores last season).
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RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie

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Re: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2019, 02:24:14 PM »

Indoor cricket is good if you bat top 3, any less and youre generally sacrificing yourself more often than not for quick runs and to get a retired player back.

Bowling is only fun with a new ball (swings a mile) or if youre rapid and can hit the ribs ball after ball (and quick enough not to get slap batted). Anything less and youre cannon fodder and its no fun

Participation is hard, the only way is to retire people from the game and not come back in, and/or have a max number of balls to face. That way, you can ensure 6 people bat each and every game.

Indoor tactics also depend on what you play and what facility you use. Here its all about running 3s, if you just look for 4/6s youll lose as many as you win. Other areas (Taunton/Bristol ) its the reverse where the back wall is king. Either way, someone rapid bowling short is impossible to score more than 1 a ball off, anyone less than rapid is cannon fodder
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RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie

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Re: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2019, 02:28:45 PM »

Could it not be argued that there is too much choice in terms of formats?

Maybe.. like everyones opinion its entirely possible. However, if you have 10 people, 2 want draw, 2 5050, 2 45/45, 2 4040 and 2 2020.. how many of the 10 will you lose by just offering say 4040 and 2020.. youll not attract anyone new (as 2020 is played already so there isnt some mountain of participants just waiting) so the game shrinks.

Naturally I could be wrong but there seem to be enough players around who want different things to be able to offer all the formats and then just let players pick what suits. After 4/5 seasons we will know if there is a formst thats dead as it will collapse
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SLA

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Re: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2019, 03:01:46 PM »

Maybe.. like everyones opinion its entirely possible. However, if you have 10 people, 2 want draw, 2 5050, 2 45/45, 2 4040 and 2 2020.. how many of the 10 will you lose by just offering say 4040 and 2020.. youll not attract anyone new (as 2020 is played already so there isnt some mountain of participants just waiting) so the game shrinks.

Naturally I could be wrong but there seem to be enough players around who want different things to be able to offer all the formats and then just let players pick what suits. After 4/5 seasons we will know if there is a formst thats dead as it will collapse


The main point of difference seem to be what to do with Sundays. Most players and clubs are happy with playing 40/50 over win/lose cricket on a Saturday and junior cricket and T20 games midweek, but there seems to be a huge divergence as to whether Sundays should be traditional timed declaration games, 40 over games, 30 over games, T20 games, T20 double headers, whether there should be a league, or whether you should just play friendlies. I really don't have the answer here, other than I think clubs offering the same thing on Sunday as they do on Saturday is a non-starter.



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RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie

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Re: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2019, 03:04:38 PM »


The main point of difference seem to be what to do with Sundays. Most players and clubs are happy with playing 40/50 over win/lose cricket on a Saturday and junior cricket and T20 games midweek, but there seems to be a huge divergence as to whether Sundays should be traditional timed declaration games, 40 over games, 30 over games, T20 games, T20 double headers, whether there should be a league, or whether you should just play friendlies. I really don't have the answer here, other than I think clubs offering the same thing on Sunday as they do on Saturday is a non-starter.

No format on Sunday seems popular. Timed games apparently boring.. draw boring, 5050 to much, 4040 to much (leagues dying too), 3030 puts off the 2020 casual and those who want longer games dont want it so wont play.. 2020 leagues or cups are being created by few teams actually bother (judt the big few) as most clubs dont have that many wanting it

It is hard to know what to do tbf
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mo_town

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Re: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2019, 03:23:12 PM »


The main point of difference seem to be what to do with Sundays. Most players and clubs are happy with playing 40/50 over win/lose cricket on a Saturday and junior cricket and T20 games midweek, but there seems to be a huge divergence as to whether Sundays should be traditional timed declaration games, 40 over games, 30 over games, T20 games, T20 double headers, whether there should be a league, or whether you should just play friendlies. I really don't have the answer here, other than I think clubs offering the same thing on Sunday as they do on Saturday is a non-starter.

One of the problems with sunday cricket in some cases is that it is not competitive and not as hard fought as Saturday league cricket. Competitive leagues are needed to revive Sunday cricket.
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