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Author Topic: Planting my front foot  (Read 2016 times)

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Cys1

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Re: Planting my front foot
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2019, 02:47:33 PM »

Got to agree with Kez. Tough to say what the cause of falling over is without seeing some footage.
It could be something in your stance (closed off stance, weight leaning towards offside etc) or you just simply moving too early before the ball is being bowled that could cause this or even a combination of them.
It's more about identifying the correct line and then moving the body to play it. You need to give yourself the best chance to do this and generally this would mean that you need to be as still as possible for as long as possible and to be in a balanced position at delivery.
Trigger movements, standing more upright etc unfortunately will not help if you if you don't get this right. Try only moving when the ball has been delivered and also do some drills where you hit the ball on the ground without moving your feet. This should force you to stay balanced, hit the ball late and also to lead with your head ( shoulder ) instead of your feet.
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SLA

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Re: Planting my front foot
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2019, 02:52:34 PM »

Christ, "Lead with your head" is such a tired old cliché. Pietersen (good batsman, but clearly not a coach) said it once on sky sports and now everyone repeats it endlessly. Its basically useless advice no matter how many people repeat it. What if the head leads you into totally the wrong position? Then what?

"Lead with the head" can go into the same stupid cliche box as "don't run on a misfield" and "never hit against the spin".

@alexevo94 post a vid mate and I'll actually give you some useful advice.
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Kez

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Re: Planting my front foot
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2019, 03:42:33 PM »

Obviously their is more to it than lead with your head...

To compare it to dont run on a midfield is total rubbish though.
Yes it need greater clarification but so does the bat is the problem its missing the ball (captain obvious)

And if we are going simple... base, weight transfer and bat path. Job done.
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Big Mac

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Re: Planting my front foot
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2019, 04:09:22 PM »

Christ, "Lead with your head" is such a tired old cliché. Pietersen (good batsman, but clearly not a coach) said it once on sky sports and now everyone repeats it endlessly. Its basically useless advice no matter how many people repeat it. What if the head leads you into totally the wrong position? Then what?

"Lead with the head" can go into the same stupid cliche box as "don't run on a misfield" and "never hit against the spin".

@alexevo94 post a vid mate and I'll actually give you some useful advice.

Getting your eyes in line with the ball early and trying to get your head over the ball doesn't get you into totally the wrong position, which is kind of the point.
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SLA

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Re: Planting my front foot
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2019, 04:26:18 PM »

Getting your eyes in line with the ball early and trying to get your head over the ball doesn't get you into totally the wrong position, which is kind of the point.

On the contrary, an over-riding obsession with getting the head in line with the ball leads to the exact vulnerability to late inswing/inseam that OP describes. Its actually more likely that he is leading TOO STRONGLY with the head, and getting it outside the (post-deviation) line of the ball.  Telling him to lead even more with his head is only going to make the problem worse.

The key to playing swing is to avoid overcommitting to playing a particular line, but instead using smaller movements to get into a more balanced adaptable position, where you can access the ball whether it moves in or away, and then trust in your hands to instinctively adjust to any late movement.

I've been coaching a group of teenagers this winter this exact thing using tennis balls half covered in tape and throwing them at them at 70mph with random swing directions. Teaching them to use small movements, stay relaxed, and trust their hands has improved their skills considerably - if I had said "lead with your head", they'd still be getting clean bowled every ball.

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SLA

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Re: Planting my front foot
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2019, 04:30:42 PM »

Obviously their is more to it than lead with your head...

To compare it to dont run on a midfield is total rubbish though.
Yes it need greater clarification but so does the bat is the problem its missing the ball (captain obvious)

And if we are going simple... base, weight transfer and bat path. Job done.

You say that, but no-one else mentioned the bat, did they. Everyone was banging on about the position of the foot, the head, everything except the one thing that really matters - the bat. The one thing worse than stating the obvious is missing the obvious.

Now you mention it, "Weight transfer" is another tired old clich that needs to be put out to pasture permanently. Meaningless pseudoscience. It doesn't even make the slightest bit of sense.
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Cys1

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Re: Planting my front foot
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2019, 05:43:57 PM »

Cliche? From the person who just used trust your hands
Id not be that quick to judge if I were you.
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Buzz

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Re: Planting my front foot
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2019, 06:03:15 PM »

Christ, "Lead with your head" is such a tired old cliché. Pietersen (good batsman, but clearly not a coach) said it once on sky sports and now everyone repeats it endlessly. Its basically useless advice no matter how many people repeat it. What if the head leads you into totally the wrong position? Then what?

"Lead with the head" can go into the same stupid cliche box as "don't run on a misfield" and "never hit against the spin".

@alexevo94 post a vid mate and I'll actually give you some useful advice.

Douglas Jardine wrote it in the 1940s.

It is the best and most successful coaching method. But happy for you to tell me it won't work.

In this case it absolutely works. From 5 year olds to 85 year olds.
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Buzz

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Re: Planting my front foot
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2019, 06:10:10 PM »

On the contrary, an over-riding obsession with getting the head in line with the ball leads to the exact vulnerability to late inswing/inseam that OP describes. Its actually more likely that he is leading TOO STRONGLY with the head, and getting it outside the (post-deviation) line of the ball.  Telling him to lead even more with his head is only going to make the problem worse.

The key to playing swing is to avoid overcommitting to playing a particular line, but instead using smaller movements to get into a more balanced adaptable position, where you can access the ball whether it moves in or away, and then trust in your hands to instinctively adjust to any late movement.

I've been coaching a group of teenagers this winter this exact thing using tennis balls half covered in tape and throwing them at them at 70mph with random swing directions. Teaching them to use small movements, stay relaxed, and trust their hands has improved their skills considerably - if I had said "lead with your head", they'd still be getting clean bowled every ball.
I couldn't disagree with this more.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Planting my front foot
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2019, 06:20:42 PM »

Buzz talks a lot of sense about cricket.
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SLA

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Re: Planting my front foot
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2019, 06:23:05 PM »

I couldn't disagree with this more.

Excellent! Praise indeed from you.
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Kez

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Re: Planting my front foot
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2019, 06:25:29 PM »

Agreed bat path is the key. But cant have a good bat path if you body is aligning you incorrectly.

Pseudoscience or just using simple terms to explain something complex. Some idiots call things tent pegs and charge lots of money for the privilege. Call things what you want, they may not scientifically be totally accurate but if it gets the point across it doesnt matter.

And at no point has anyone said to over commit with the head movement, which of course will cause other issues.

There is also many different ways to skin a cat... Gayle, Sehwag, Cook, ABdV, Buttler. All great players but each have a different methods. End of the day its a simple game that we make very difficult
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SLA

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Re: Planting my front foot
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2019, 06:40:18 PM »

Agreed bat path is the key. But cant have a good bat path if you body is aligning you incorrectly.

Pseudoscience or just using simple terms to explain something complex. Some idiots call things tent pegs and charge lots of money for the privilege. Call things what you want, they may not scientifically be totally accurate but if it gets the point across it doesnt matter.

And at no point has anyone said to over commit with the head movement, which of course will cause other issues.

There is also many different ways to skin a cat... Gayle, Sehwag, Cook, ABdV, Buttler. All great players but each have a different methods. End of the day its a simple game that we make very difficult

If you don't understand the science, you can't coach. You're just left to resorting to repeating clichs that you read in a book written by some other idiot with no actual understanding either. I collect coaching manuals going back to 1890, and 90% of them just repeat the same old incorrect and unhelpful clichs. Say what you like about ponty, and he and I have had disagreements in the past, but at least he makes the effort to try to understand the science.

Bottom line is, of all you understand about coaching is a bunch of sayings that you have read in coaching books or heard other coaches saying, then you don't know anything at all.
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Buzz

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Re: Planting my front foot
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2019, 06:59:25 PM »

If you instinctively adjust to the line of a swinging ball you will knick off. It is only a matter of time. You meed to be able to hold your shape.
But that is a different thread to planting your front foot.
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Cys1

Re: Planting my front foot
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2019, 07:36:11 PM »

It would be very naive to think that so many successful players and coaches would mention this cliche without there being any truth to it.
But lets just have a look to see if this does have any science to it.
Lead with your head is a simplified way to convey the idea that for best results when playing off the front foot your body needs to aligned with the ball. Its not a wholly accurate description of everything that needs to happen when playing off the front foot but it covers most parts which makes it an ideal term to use for the majority of cricketer who do not have the opportunity to get good 1:1 coaching.  The secret is that you need your body to move towards the line of the ball and leave you in a position make contact with the ball and play an attacking or defensive stroke that should ideally not get you out. You would then be looking to transfer Force from your bat to the ball as optimally as possible. Based on sound physics principles we know that Force is linked to Mass ( Weight ) and therefore weight transfer ( another cliche ) into the line of the ball is essential to maximize the Force imparted onto the ball on contact with the bat. This would be rather difficult to with your head leaning backwards and hence the expression lead with your head.

I think that you would find a lot of science at the heart of many of these cliches. They are all just simplified and palatable ways of trying to convey more complex principles.

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