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Author Topic: Unweighting/deweighting the bat  (Read 4290 times)

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Buzz

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Re: Unweighting/deweighting the bat
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2020, 02:52:52 PM »

Players aren't good at hinging their wrists.


@Chompy9760 I will come back to you on this.

@Chompy9760 I did a video...

https://youtu.be/EqxIUIWqD8I
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Psi

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Re: Unweighting/deweighting the bat
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2020, 03:39:33 PM »

Yes, makes sense. The issue with holding it at 90 degrees is that you have to exert a lot of torque to keep the bat balanced there because of gravity acting through the centre of mass. Holding the bat more upright means you need to apply less torque and most of the force is used to just support the bat's weight, which doesn't change of course. Think about trying to hold up a plank (an actual plank, not just a poor bat choice) from one end as compared to Balancing it at the middle. It takes a lot more force. So I suppose we are less likely to do a good wrist cock and back swing if we start the shot from 90 degrees.

First person I remember doing this in international cricket was Mike Brearley the England captain. It looked really weird at the time. He anyone got pics of his stance? I couldn't find any on the Internet. I do remember that he didn't look very relaxed and was quite upright.

How about the content on yorkers? Is it harder to get the bat down quickly onto a good yorker from the deweighted stance?



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Buzz

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Re: Unweighting/deweighting the bat
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2020, 03:47:54 PM »

Bradman did it too.
Not going to worry about yorkers most don't face bowling fast enough to be an issue.

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Psi

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Re: Unweighting/deweighting the bat
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2020, 04:03:06 PM »

To be fair, I never got to see Bradman. But my dad did. He (Bradman) got a double century at Chalkwell Park in Essex. Not a 1st class venue any more though sadly.

Anyone got pictures of Mike Brearley stance?
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Chompy9760

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Re: Unweighting/deweighting the bat
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2020, 11:10:23 PM »

Ok, thanks very much for the clarification Buzz and Psi.
So on your video it's not so much the initial stance where you're holding the bat upright, but more a triggered high backlift - much like BC Lara?

I have a "Cricket's greatest" DVD, and remember Graham Gooch said he changed to a similar method part way through his career, and got very good results from it - might have been around the same time as Brearly?
It's obviously a method that's been around for a long time.  The 'how' and 'why' it makes a difference is what intrigues me.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 11:11:56 PM by Chompy9760 »
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Chompy9760

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Re: Unweighting/deweighting the bat
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2020, 11:27:24 PM »

Not going to worry about yorkers most don't face bowling fast enough to be an issue.
Well, that may be the case for those of you who have good reflexes :D
But in all seriousness, if your stance has a vertical bat vs horizontal, in order to get the bat to the ball at the same time, you must either A) swing harder, or B) swing earlier.
That goes for every shot from every bowler, not just yorkers.
With my reflexes, I'd love a bit of extra time to play a shot, but obviously there are enough positives that outweigh my concerns, with so many people using the technique and having success.
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brokenbat

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Re: Unweighting/deweighting the bat
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2020, 11:47:25 PM »

Ok, thanks very much for the clarification Buzz and Psi.
So on your video it's not so much the initial stance where you're holding the bat upright, but more a triggered high backlift - much like BC Lara?

I have a "Cricket's greatest" DVD, and remember Graham Gooch said he changed to a similar method part way through his career, and got very good results from it - might have been around the same time as Brearly?
It's obviously a method that's been around for a long time.  The 'how' and 'why' it makes a difference is what intrigues me.

I wouldnt call it a triggered backlift. You still need a little rhythm and swing to hit the ball (look at bairstow - he holds it high but just as ball is released he does a little down-up with his bat). If you hold the bat vertically before you know what shot youre playing, youll probably struggle. Guys who do it best (Lara), see the ball,  get into position to play the shot and then play the shot ... the unweighting / cocking of wrists happens during the getting into position step.

So I dont think anything is different in your setup - its just the peak of your backswing that should look different now. For Yorkers etc, I reckon your instincts will kick in and you wont actually go that far vertical (as long as youre watching the ball).
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InternalTraining

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Re: Unweighting/deweighting the bat
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2020, 01:15:00 AM »

Guys who practice against bowling machines, do a high back lift instinctively. Not sure if it is timed as discussed here.

I changed from a high back lift to a low (bail level) back lift and it helped with my timing and balance. I'll have to test out the unweighting in my next nets.
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Nmcgee

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Re: Unweighting/deweighting the bat
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2020, 07:24:56 AM »

Look up baseball hitting technique. Load, extension, finish.
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InternalTraining

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Re: Unweighting/deweighting the bat
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2020, 03:47:01 PM »

^ Yup, looks like you unweight and plant your foot at the same time for it to work, like a baseball swing.
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SOULMAN1012

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Re: Unweighting/deweighting the bat
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2020, 04:33:24 PM »

This de-weighting or high back lift is how I have batted for a long time now. I copied the way YJB used to bat when he first came in the scene which was very still with the toe of the bat pointing straight up and no trigger movement. I tried this after a shocking season of 10 games and 9 dismissals to LBW.

A coach I had at the time got me to try it as a way of removing to many moving parts, ie trigger movement, bat moving from tapping to mid/ bail height then very high and then I played a shot. Maybe that doesnt make sense when typing but I had so much doing on and in my head that I wasnt concentrating on the bowler or ball as much as I should.
All I will say is it took me a whole winter of netting 2/3 times a week for it to become natural but its certainly helped me. I had never thought about the science of taking the weight out of the bat in this stance as thats just to complex for a simple guy like me. It has however really helped my batting overall with this stance.
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Kulli

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Re: Unweighting/deweighting the bat
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2020, 05:14:42 PM »

From my understanding deweighting and a high back lift dont have to be mutually inclusive.
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raza147

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Re: Unweighting/deweighting the bat
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2020, 06:07:07 PM »

This de-weighting or high back lift is how I have batted for a long time now. I copied the way YJB used to bat when he first came in the scene which was very still with the toe of the bat pointing straight up and no trigger movement. I tried this after a shocking season of 10 games and 9 dismissals to LBW.

A coach I had at the time got me to try it as a way of removing to many moving parts, ie trigger movement, bat moving from tapping to mid/ bail height then very high and then I played a shot. Maybe that doesnt make sense when typing but I had so much doing on and in my head that I wasnt concentrating on the bowler or ball as much as I should.
All I will say is it took me a whole winter of netting 2/3 times a week for it to become natural but its certainly helped me. I had never thought about the science of taking the weight out of the bat in this stance as thats just to complex for a simple guy like me. It has however really helped my batting overall with this stance.

i had the exact same problem, and the same solution has worked wonders for me, iv ditched the trigger, stand tall and still, bat pointing up, have so much more time to play the ball, no more lbws, scored alot of runs last year with this technique
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edge

Re: Unweighting/deweighting the bat
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2020, 09:28:42 PM »

Am I not getting this, or is there significant confusion going on between standing with your bat pointing up in the air in your stance (say Eoin Morgan) and deweighting during the backlift part of a shot? I thought the two were different things.
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Psi

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Re: Unweighting/deweighting the bat
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2020, 09:02:12 AM »

Had a look at some old footage. I couldn't really see that Don Bradman was deweighting, unless you mean he just builds in a wrist cock into his back swing. The only other player I found was Derek Randall in the 1970s, see e.g. https://youtu.be/L-6CXbP7Z2w
first dismissal, but it's a bad shot that gets an edge. Mike Brearley does it for some shots but on others he swings the bat back down again below horizontal before his backswing.

Perhaps most interestingly, if you go back to really early footage, pre 1920s, then most batsmen do seem to deweight, or at least they take an upright stance with the bat held above horizontal.
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