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InternalTraining

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Re: Staying side on
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2020, 02:17:33 PM »

No, the back foot should already be angled forward. Not straight down the wicket, but pointing somewhere in the direction of cover/extra cover.

Its easier to see the ball because you have a clearer view of it due to your shoulder already being out of the way. Its great for pulls and hooks as it eliminates that momentary blind spot. You may well check your drives because you dont feel balanced enough to play with the full follow through. I did the same at first, but you soon get used to the feel.

Cool! We can incrementally build on this. :)

Now, when I am playing check drives, they are (mostly) in the "V". So, what do you do when you want to  play to the region from cover-point to extra-cover? As you said, my balance only allows check-drives and to drive in the cover-point to extra-cover region, I need to move my back foot to regain some balance. How do you manage those areas or what Gary Palmer instructs you to do for that region?

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nivaga

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Re: Staying side on
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2020, 02:45:07 PM »

I think a lot has to do with your own physical makeup - how your own shoulders, hips etc. move and move together as a unit?

Head still, eyes level, moving over the ball with minimal movement, swinging through the line with a high front elbow, keeping head down, being balanced  ... are all more important than a "this is how you should setup". 

Being relaxed and able to effortlessly move to get my head over any line from outside off to leg is my checklist for whether I am in a good starting position. I know roughly what feels right, but a few shadows strokes usually helps tune what is feeling comfortable on the day.  (It definitively varies ... age!)

Of course if you are Rory Burns you can safely tie yourself in a knot and still play well :D
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SouthpawMark

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Re: Staying side on
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2020, 03:16:50 PM »

Can you explain the blind spot comment please because I really don't get it.

As someone with pretty orthodox technique, I have never had a blind spot to the short ball.
And I have always played it perfectly 😂😂


As for the change in alignment of feet thing, if it works for you, great, it isn't for me.


Reflecting in my comment, its more for hooks than pulls. When youre hooking from a square stance, you need to get the shoulder out of the way, and the natural arc of the arms and bat momentarily gets between you and the ball. GP says its why Crawley struggles with the short ball so much. With open shoulders, the leading shoulder is already out of the way, so your arms dont need to take the same arc, and it eliminates the blind spot. Well, it does for me anyway, and slow mo vids seem to prove it too. Ive perhaps not explained it properly, but then again Im not a coach.

As for the foot alignment thing, its not for everyone. Theres no hard and fast way to bat. If there was, everyone would look exactly the same. I feel it makes me get more momentum behind the ball, but I totally understand why some people would prefer the solidity of having their back foot anchored and pointing at point. Again, no right or wrong answer.
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SouthpawMark

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Re: Staying side on
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2020, 03:22:43 PM »

Cool! We can incrementally build on this. :)

Now, when I am playing check drives, they are (mostly) in the "V". So, what do you do when you want to  play to the region from cover-point to extra-cover? As you said, my balance only allows check-drives and to drive in the cover-point to extra-cover region, I need to move my back foot to regain some balance. How do you manage those areas or what Gary Palmer instructs you to do for that region?

You still start with your back foot at say a 45 degree angle, but instead of pivoting on the ball of your foot and making it point straight down the wicket, you simply dont square up as much. Square/cover drives are the only shots where you need to close up your shoulders a bit. It takes a bit of coordination, and against the quicker stuff, decent reactions, but as with everything he coaches, repetition gets it ingrained within your game fairly quickly.

Apologies in advance if my replies are confusing... its easier to demo it than to write about it!
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InternalTraining

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Re: Staying side on
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2020, 03:37:35 PM »

^ No, you are making perfect sense! I have lived thru these situations so many times, I know exactly what you are talking about. :)

If I time it correctly and ball is new with a low grass (we sometimes play in fields with high grass and slow outfield) field, I can check drive to cover boundary. In one instance, I was very open but close to the ball (which had a crap ton of pace), and I slap-drived (new word :D) the ball thru cover point region, almost like a square drive.

I can do it but I pay the price in slight disbalanced position because my backfoot moves sideways with toe pointing to mid-off region.

When all is said and done, people who've mastered these subtle changes have gone on to score 100s of runs.
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brokenbat

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Re: Staying side on
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2020, 04:48:42 PM »

No, the back foot should already be angled forward. Not straight down the wicket, but pointing somewhere in the direction of cover/extra cover.

Its easier to see the ball because you have a clearer view of it due to your shoulder already being out of the way. Its great for pulls and hooks as it eliminates that momentary blind spot. You may well check your drives because you dont feel balanced enough to play with the full follow through. I did the same at first, but you soon get used to the feel.

Any pics or videos that illustrate the points youve made?
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SouthpawMark

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Re: Staying side on
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2020, 05:02:13 PM »

Any pics or videos that illustrate the points youve made?

I will happily set up my iPad to record next weeks session!
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SD

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Re: Staying side on
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2020, 10:41:39 AM »

Morning all,

Does anyone have any tips for staying more side on? I noticed it last year I was being bowled through the gate by seamers even when i was set. I think it's because i can play quite inside out as my back hip comes through which naturally makes a pretty big gap between bat and pad.

Any tips/ drills to work on staying side on and bat coming through straight and close to the front pad? Things im working on to try and help are getting my hands closer to my hip and starting with my shoulder more closed off even with feet pointing to a straight ish mid on position. I score most of my runs through mid wicket- mid on and the goal here is to try and extend that round to a square cover which i really struggle to score through.

Cheers!

I have had this problem and i found for me that it was related to playing the ball too early.  By reaching for the ball out in front of me, my right hip was swinging round as I was off balance.  I worked on consciously playing the ball later so they I wasn't over balancing.

I do have a fairly open stance though and i have worked with the strengths of this - quickly being in a position to cut and pull and being able to access to the on side easily - rather than trying to change it
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Buzz

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Re: Staying side on
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2020, 11:05:47 AM »

Reflecting in my comment, its more for hooks than pulls. When youre hooking from a square stance, you need to get the shoulder out of the way, and the natural arc of the arms and bat momentarily gets between you and the ball. GP says its why Crawley struggles with the short ball so much. With open shoulders, the leading shoulder is already out of the way, so your arms dont need to take the same arc, and it eliminates the blind spot. Well, it does for me anyway, and slow mo vids seem to prove it too. Ive perhaps not explained it properly, but then again Im not a coach.


I still don't get this. (edit: sorry if this seems grumpy it isn't meant too! I see Gary Palmer has his advocates and I am trying to understand his method, which is more than stand more open I know).
As a side on player, when you get a short ball, your back foot moves back and across, this opens you up to be able to play the pull, duck or sway out of the way.

If you are front on you don't have the duck option and the sway option isn't easy. You are just a target, which is why Sibly looked ungainly against the quick stuff, but he does have a method.

I have spent a bunch of time being coached on the short stuff because I was being peppered in one of the games I play annually. (the coach has seen me play a few times and knows that anything in my half my be in my arc and tells his bowlers to not bowl full at me...! Thanks Medders.)

When I started the session I had my back foot prepositioned outside the off stump and bat raised. We then hit a few and moved to a normal stance and movement with bouncier balls then proper balls (Reeds School has all the gear...)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 11:15:37 AM by Buzz »
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SouthpawMark

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Re: Staying side on
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2020, 11:34:50 AM »

I still don't get this. (edit: sorry if this seems grumpy it isn't meant too! I see Gary Palmer has his advocates and I am trying to understand his method, which is more than stand more open I know).
As a side on player, when you get a short ball, your back foot moves back and across, this opens you up to be able to play the pull, duck or sway out of the way.

If you are front on you don't have the duck option and the sway option isn't easy. You are just a target, which is why Sibly looked ungainly against the quick stuff, but he does have a method.

I have spent a bunch of time being coached on the short stuff because I was being peppered in one of the games I play annually. (the coach has seen me play a few times and knows that anything in my half my be in my arc and tells his bowlers to not bowl full at me...! Thanks Medders.)

When I started the session I had my back foot prepositioned outside the off stump and bat raised. We then hit a few and moved to a normal stance and movement with bouncier balls then proper balls (Reeds School has all the gear...)

I think theres a misconception about his methods and the term front on. It may feel like youre front on (i.e. your shoulders and chest pointing straight down the wicket) but youre actually not. I dont know if youve ever played golf, had a lesson and thought it felt awful, would look awful, then saw it on video and you could barely tell the difference... thats what it feels and looks like when you start doing it his way. Yes it looks a bit different as youre more open, but I would say my shoulders and chest are still open by no more than 40-45 degrees in my actual stance. My front and back feet are pointed at cover/extra cover, and my feet are open by around 30 degrees. It very quickly becomes second nature.

I dont feel that I am a bigger target to hit, but then again I am loathed to duck or sway out of the way of any bumpers as I very rarely face anyone who I feel is quick enough to get me in to a position where I would rather take evasive action than pull or hook. I feel that I could do either if I needed to though, as its still a very solid base.

Sibley has always had that shovel around the corner type of pull shot... its not something that GP has taught him, or wants him to play. It doesnt look good and will eventually start to get him in to trouble when bowlers start targeting it.
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brokenbat

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Re: Staying side on
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2020, 01:05:27 PM »

The way he explains it here is very sensible.

https://youtu.be/p4jSxExtPkM
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Buzz

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Re: Staying side on
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2020, 02:11:16 PM »

Thanks the way Gary explains it makes sense. It is basically how i set up. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Psi

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Re: Staying side on
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2020, 02:58:37 PM »

It's a nice video because it shows he is not teaching something extreme and non orthodox. He is just showing how to make the stance and shoulders work effectively to make really good well balanced shots in the V. I like the ideas about leaving the ball as well.

Another way to get people's shoulders in the same position at the stance is to tell them to get their head perfectly level and facing straight at the bowler. Then you more or less have to open your shoulders a bit in the way he describes. This was the very first tip my coach taught me a couple of years ago and I try to implement it every ball. Previously I used to fall away to off.
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InternalTraining

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Re: Staying side on
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2020, 03:44:29 PM »


https://youtu.be/p4jSxExtPkM

Ha! 2:57 mark, tank turret. :D

I feel I lose some time (fraction) when rotating like this. I connect if I pre-meditate.
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