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Author Topic: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper  (Read 2533 times)

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Whispering Death

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Re: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2020, 08:04:18 AM »

Just wish his back would let him play for longer!
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SLA

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Re: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2020, 09:02:54 AM »

Its hard to say whether this was Morgan or someone else in the white ball coaching setup, but a few years ago they read the way ODIs were going earlier than anyone else. To win you need to score 300-350 every innings, to do that, you need to tee off from ball one and keep teeing off even if you lose wickets. Nowadays every team does this, but a few years ago England were the only team doing it and it was seen as very risky.

Pretty Sure England were the last team to do this but sounds like a cool story.

In 2015 we were miles behind, by 2017 we were miles ahead. A lot of this was down to Bayliss, of course.
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potzy248

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Re: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2020, 10:12:30 AM »

In 2015 we were miles behind, by 2017 we were miles ahead. A lot of this was down to Bayliss, of course.

Miles ahead?

All teams were trying to play that style, tell me one team that was not looking to score 350+ each game. England just did it better.
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sgcricket

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Re: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2020, 10:40:06 AM »

It has to be the mentality that 'we are going to play this way. doesn't matter if we are 100 all out a couple of time. just play positive cricket.'
and then he identified and backed the players that matched his vision of how the team wants to play. probably why root is not a t20 regular now.
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Jimbo

Re: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2020, 11:11:07 AM »

It has to be the mentality that 'we are going to play this way. doesn't matter if we are 100 all out a couple of time. just play positive cricket.'
and then he identified and backed the players that matched his vision of how the team wants to play. probably why root is not a t20 regular now.

Root isn't a T20 regular because there's no space for someone who isn't a natural power hitter in the top order of an elite T20 side any more. Root is phenomenal but power hitting doesn't come naturally to him and I think he's admitted as much.
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sgcricket

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Re: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2020, 02:09:58 PM »

Exactly...plus there are too many options at the top in Buttler, Roy, Bairstow, Banton and maybe Hales. If Moeen is more consistent then along with Morgan, Stokes that is an amazing middle order to follow. Makes England favourites
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InternalTraining

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Re: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2020, 03:17:08 PM »

^ Right on. There is some serious batting depth.
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Jimbo

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Re: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2020, 04:46:00 PM »

Note that Malan didn't even get a mention there. His record is pretty phenomenal in T20. Just shows how ridiculous the top order depth is.

I think it does lend weight to the argument that Buttler should play in the finisher role though, plenty explosive players up top but the inventiveness that a difficult chase sometimes requires is really Buttler's strength.
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potzy248

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Re: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2020, 10:34:56 PM »

Exactly...plus there are too many options at the top in Buttler, Roy, Bairstow, Banton and maybe Hales. If Moeen is more consistent then along with Morgan, Stokes that is an amazing middle order to follow. Makes England favourites

Decent side that. Plenty of others on fringes too who would walk into other international sides.
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brokenbat

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Re: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2020, 03:27:00 AM »

At the risk of getting a ton of hate... am not sure Morgan is that big of a genius. Hes been fortunate to have a great team (like ponting), but is he really a master tactician? The change in Eng ODI fortunes was not his initiative - he was merely implementing the new vision of the whole set up. He has done that very well, but I wouldnt put him in the same league as:
Ranatunga (who completely changed ODI cricket, and took a minnow to undefeated WC glory),
Imran Khan (totally turned ODI bowling on its head by picking genuine wicket takers instead of run savers),
Stephen Fleming (took a modest team and helped it punch well above its weight),
Martin Crowe (true innovator as ODI captain - remember Deepak Patel and Mark Greatbatch?)

Morgan is one of my favourite cricketers to watch, but as a captain, his this is how we play approach has backfired at key moments (such as the Champions trophy). Not very adaptable to non-road conditions.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 03:30:18 AM by brokenbat »
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Mpt7

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Re: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2020, 11:22:07 AM »

I think it's fair not to call him a genius captain but he has been a exceptional leader with a good plan building on the people you mention and Brendon McCullum

He has grown a group through his selection policy in line with his plan of 'this is how we play'

He has also give those players space to grow in to what we have now. Roy could have been discarded for being 'too flash' Rashid for going at too high a rate. Morgan's understood the importance of setting the tone at the top and taking wickets in the middle. Plunkett could easily have been a under used opening bowlers rather than the wicket taking middle overs bowler he became - Morgan picked him after 2015 WC loss

He's also got key decisions right - he moved on from anderson, cook,. he recognised the importance of pace for the bowling attack and the effectiveness of spin in the middle overs fortunate to have rashid but Morgan bought him in after the 2015 WC loss. rashid hadn't played an ODI for england since 2009. Same for Plunkett. he removed hales when we went astray. he was ruthless in the selection of Archer over Wiley. All these things contributed to the being No 1 in the world and WC favourites

looking at the 2016 side against sri lanka it's almost an identikit side for the 2019 side. but the plan and the method was clear

Genius, perhaps not but England best leader in ODIs, no doubt for me.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 11:24:24 AM by Mpt7 »
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sgcricket

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Re: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2020, 01:51:27 PM »

Note that Malan didn't even get a mention there. His record is pretty phenomenal in T20. Just shows how ridiculous the top order depth is.

I think it does lend weight to the argument that Buttler should play in the finisher role though, plenty explosive players up top but the inventiveness that a difficult chase sometimes requires is really Buttler's strength.
Impressive stats but the perception that he plays for his average doesnt help. Morgan even criticised him for not running a bye of the last ball. But should definitely get more chances to prove his worth. Maybe instead of Moeen
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Re: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2020, 01:57:51 PM »

Moeen and Malan have totally different roles in the t20 team, that isn't going to work.
Malan is a top 3 bat. At the moment the t20 top 3 is Buttler, Roy and Bairstow. Now if Buttler played at 5/6 then there is room for him.
But that would be a rethink of the current plans. Plus Buttler is our best t20 batsman.
Perhaps he could bat at 4. But that would mean dropping Morgan for Malan. Oh. That isn't going to happen.
So Malan is harshly treated.
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Re: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2020, 02:20:04 PM »

Also of the potential candidates to bat top 3 (Roy, Buttler, Bairstow, Banton, Malan) Malan is the only one who starts slow and accelerates. The others all just go after it immediately, and it seems pretty clear Morgan/England value that.
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brokenbat

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Re: What Makes Eoin Morgan Such A Good Skipper
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2020, 02:40:26 PM »

I think it's fair not to call him a genius captain but he has been a exceptional leader with a good plan building on the people you mention and Brendon McCullum

He has grown a group through his selection policy in line with his plan of 'this is how we play'

He has also give those players space to grow in to what we have now. Roy could have been discarded for being 'too flash' Rashid for going at too high a rate. Morgan's understood the importance of setting the tone at the top and taking wickets in the middle. Plunkett could easily have been a under used opening bowlers rather than the wicket taking middle overs bowler he became - Morgan picked him after 2015 WC loss

He's also got key decisions right - he moved on from anderson, cook,. he recognised the importance of pace for the bowling attack and the effectiveness of spin in the middle overs fortunate to have rashid but Morgan bought him in after the 2015 WC loss. rashid hadn't played an ODI for england since 2009. Same for Plunkett. he removed hales when we went astray. he was ruthless in the selection of Archer over Wiley. All these things contributed to the being No 1 in the world and WC favourites

looking at the 2016 side against sri lanka it's almost an identikit side for the 2019 side. but the plan and the method was clear

Genius, perhaps not but England best leader in ODIs, no doubt for me.

Very well said.
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