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Author Topic: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??  (Read 1710 times)

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SLA

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Re: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2020, 11:03:54 AM »

Just good cricket and awareness from Paine. Absolutely nothing to do with the spirit of the game, blokes out of his crease, just like if keeper was up to the stumps and he left his ground, regardless of whether he is looking to run or not. Dont leave your crease

Its village when you see the WK  in club cricket, stood 20 yards back to a trundler and continue to throw it at the stumps most balls, overarm regardless of where the batsmen is stood

Oh yeah, that really is village - especially if he hits them and appeals loudly despite you standing there with both feet in the crease.

Everyone rolls their eyes as the square leg umpire has to come and reset the bails AGAIN.
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Kulli

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Re: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2020, 11:15:20 AM »

For anyone complaining about this, would you complain if the keeper had been stood up to the stumps?

It's the batsman's fault if he's unaware he's out his crease, not the keepers - I'd be more pissed if Paine hadn't thrown his stumps down!

I think its fine, but struggle to see how people who think mankading is some sort of hanging offence can then say that they think this is not similar.
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moonball

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Re: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2020, 11:33:36 AM »

If it isn't a stumping, what is it? I fail to see how a legitimate dismissal is against the spirit of the game.

I've seen it more than once in club games and it's always just been dopey by the batsman, nobody batted an eyelid or moaned about it being unfair. In one instance the kid's dad gave him a bollocking for throwing it away!

Easy tiger - yes we've all seen it. Just expressing my opinion. It could be interpreted as a run out, depending on the interpretation of the situation by the standing umpires.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2020, 11:39:51 AM »

If it isn't a stumping, what is it? I fail to see how a legitimate dismissal is against the spirit of the game.


Going on the description alone, it's a run-out not a stumping.
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Jimbo

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Re: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2020, 12:04:17 PM »

I think its fine, but struggle to see how people who think mankading is some sort of hanging offence can then say that they think this is not similar.

The ball is in play, the batsman has to be aware of where he's standing and where the ball is.

With a mankad (although I don't agree) you could say that there's some element of deception. I can't see how that applies to throwing down the stumps of someone who has walked out of their crease while trying to play a shot.
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Kulli

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Re: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2020, 12:12:43 PM »

How long is it ok for the keeper to wait before throwing at the stumps like that?

For the record I dont have an issue with either, just dont leave your ground at the wrong time 😬
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SurreySam

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Re: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2020, 12:18:47 PM »

Fine by me.

Bowlers have to keep their foot behind the line and so should batsman, including the non striker.
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edge

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Re: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2020, 12:20:31 PM »

The ball is in play, the batsman has to be aware of where he's standing and where the ball is.
So exactly the same as a mankad then?

I think there's an argument the ball is dead here, but that would be very generous to the batsman.
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six and out

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Re: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2020, 12:53:57 PM »

So exactly the same as a mankad then?

I think there's an argument the ball is dead here, but that would be very generous to the batsman.

20.1 Ball is dead

20.1.1 The ball becomes dead when

20.1.1.1 it is finally settled in the hands of the wicket-keeper or of the bowler.

20.1.1.2 a boundary is scored.  See Law 19.7 (Runs scored from boundaries).

20.1.1.3 a batsman is dismissed.  The ball will be deemed to be dead from the instant of the incident causing the dismissal.

20.1.1.4 whether played or not it becomes trapped between the bat and person of a batsman or between items of his/her clothing or equipment.

20.1.1.5 whether played or not it lodges in the clothing or equipment of a batsman or the clothing of an fielder.

20.1.2 The ball shall be considered to be dead when it is clear to the bowlers end umpire that the fielding side and both batsmen at the wicket have ceased to regard it as in play.

20.2 Ball finally settled

Whether the ball is finally settled or not is a matter for the umpire alone to decide.

The dead ball rule kind of contradicts itself in that the 1st bit says about just in the keepers gloves but afterwards it says about if the fielders and batsman regards it in play
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Jimbo

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Re: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2020, 01:02:07 PM »

So exactly the same as a mankad then?

I think there's an argument the ball is dead here, but that would be very generous to the batsman.

In some ways, yes, but I don't think there's the same element of 'deception' for lack of a better word as there is with a Mankad.

That said, I don't see Mankads as unfair so I'm not likely to see this as unfair either. Why should a batsman be able to gain an advantage over the bowler without risking his wicket?
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SLA

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Re: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2020, 01:26:56 PM »

20.1 Ball is dead

20.1.1 The ball becomes dead when

20.1.1.1 it is finally settled in the hands of the wicket-keeper or of the bowler.

20.1.1.2 a boundary is scored.  See Law 19.7 (Runs scored from boundaries).

20.1.1.3 a batsman is dismissed.  The ball will be deemed to be dead from the instant of the incident causing the dismissal.

20.1.1.4 whether played or not it becomes trapped between the bat and person of a batsman or between items of his/her clothing or equipment.

20.1.1.5 whether played or not it lodges in the clothing or equipment of a batsman or the clothing of an fielder.

20.1.2 The ball shall be considered to be dead when it is clear to the bowlers end umpire that the fielding side and both batsmen at the wicket have ceased to regard it as in play.

20.2 Ball finally settled

Whether the ball is finally settled or not is a matter for the umpire alone to decide.

The dead ball rule kind of contradicts itself in that the 1st bit says about just in the keepers gloves but afterwards it says about if the fielders and batsman regards it in play


The dead ball rule must be one of the funkiest in sport. It works really efficiently 99% of the time, but is absolutely useless when there is a controversy.

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Simmy

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Re: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2020, 01:34:42 PM »

When I do this I get rinsed by some players in my team haha. but tbh i normally miss the stumps
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edge

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Re: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2020, 03:06:05 PM »

In some ways, yes, but I don't think there's the same element of 'deception' for lack of a better word as there is with a Mankad.
I've never understood the idea that there's deception in mankads - in what way is the batsman being deceived? Either they're trying to steal an advantage and get caught or they're not looking and have wandered out of their crease.

The dead ball law really isn't helpful for this situation, I think it's fair that it's out though. Would certainly ask the question of the umpires if I was batting!
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KettonJake

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Re: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2020, 03:13:22 PM »

If someone is consistently walking down or starting out their crease but not retreating back after playing and missing, then i'll definitely have a shy, even if it is just a bit of a warning that makes them bat deeper for a bit and makes it easier for my bowler, it is worthwhile doing.

I have only hit with the batsman out of his ground on a handful of occasions.

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Re: Is this Village or Genius by Tim Paine??
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2020, 03:35:39 PM »

I've never understood the idea that there's deception in mankads - in what way is the batsman being deceived? Either they're trying to steal an advantage and get caught or they're not looking and have wandered out of their crease.

The dead ball law really isn't helpful for this situation, I think it's fair that it's out though. Would certainly ask the question of the umpires if I was batting!

I think the deception element (again not that I agree with this but I can see where people are coming from) depends on how far through their action the bowler gets and whether they intended to bowl at all. Seen it a couple of times in club games that the bowler was clearly just waiting for the batsman to step out of their crease early. In fairness to those involved, they did just warn the batsman so no harm done.
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