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Author Topic: England v Sri lanka  (Read 11534 times)

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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2020, 02:24:21 PM »

Lawrence won't be anything special? At 23 - he's got 10 first class hundreds from 74 FC games, has been part of 2 County Champs winning teams, averages 38 in FC cricket since debut and has shown some serious promise on the England Lions tours. Think it's a bit premature to declare that he "won't be anything special".


avg 38 in domestic cricket.. Shouldn't we be wanting people to be nearer 50 in FC??????  Given it's vastly easier to plunder runs at county level etc etc
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Jimbo

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2020, 02:30:27 PM »


avg 38 in domestic cricket.. Shouldn't we be wanting people to be nearer 50 in FC??????  Given it's vastly easier to plunder runs at county level etc etc

When he's been selected for the Lions on the basis of a technical change he made at the back end of the 2019 season, I don't think it's particularly useful to talk about his career average. You're also ignoring the fact he made his FC debut at 17, can't expect a brilliant career average when he's played much of his cricket before the age of 21. Bairstow isn't going to get much better either, Lawrence at 23 has much more room for improvement.
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edge

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2020, 02:34:41 PM »


avg 38 in domestic cricket.. Shouldn't we be wanting people to be nearer 50 in FC??????  Given it's vastly easier to plunder runs at county level etc etc
38 career average is pretty good these days in the County Champs, the pitches have not been so good the past few years. Almost noone knocking them out at 50 anymore.
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SD

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2020, 02:37:24 PM »

Given that 3 of the top 6 aren't on this trip I would have preferred to see some bolder selections in terms of looking to the future whereas it seems a safety-first selection with Ali and Bairstow back.  Also hard to read much into tours to Sri Lanka and India though given than the conditions dictate much changed sides to those that will play elsewhere
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2020, 02:51:34 PM »

When he's been selected for the Lions on the basis of a technical change he made at the back end of the 2019 season, I don't think it's particularly useful to talk about his career average. You're also ignoring the fact he made his FC debut at 17, can't expect a brilliant career average when he's played much of his cricket before the age of 21. Bairstow isn't going to get much better either, Lawrence at 23 has much more room for improvement.

I do love how saying someone might not be anything special means it's 'writing someone off'.. sigh.


Special to me is 50+ test average.. average test player is 40+ ... not good enough test player is sub 40 (as a batter).

Either way, we are all entitled to an opinion.. just like those who love Bairstow/Moeen/buttler etc
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2020, 02:53:54 PM »

38 career average is pretty good these days in the County Champs, the pitches have not been so good the past few years. Almost noone knocking them out at 50 anymore.

one could counter it with 'don't blame pitches' when most people will accept it's not due to outstanding bowlers and crap desks.. it's because we simply aren't producing quality batsmen capable anymore. They are being trained to play white ball which like It or not, affects players technically and mentally. We produce players who can biff it and turn their hand at red ball.. rather than red ballers turning their hand at white ball. If you want 500 plays 500 you won't get many red ball quality .. if you want scratch to 225 in 50 overs you will produce many red ball batters and have high quality but you will have less 'fun' white ball teams.. simply can't have both generally speaking
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2020, 02:54:56 PM »

Given that 3 of the top 6 aren't on this trip I would have preferred to see some bolder selections in terms of looking to the future whereas it seems a safety-first selection with Ali and Bairstow back.  Also hard to read much into tours to Sri Lanka and India though given than the conditions dictate much changed sides to those that will play elsewhere

also, SL are dire so we can't read much into them .. just like SA/WI etc. Given the supposed quality the ECB has and the financial resources, these teams and tours should be a picnic
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Jimbo

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2020, 03:14:28 PM »

I do love how saying someone might not be anything special means it's 'writing someone off'.. sigh.


Special to me is 50+ test average.. average test player is 40+ ... not good enough test player is sub 40 (as a batter).

Either way, we are all entitled to an opinion.. just like those who love Bairstow/Moeen/buttler etc

Semantics maybe, but you didn't say 'might be'. I'd agree he's no sure bet given he'd be a debutant at international level but I think he has serious promise and might be a bit of a rough diamond in much the same way Crawley has been.
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alba caerulea

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2020, 03:19:38 PM »

I quite like the squad and think Lawrence will have a decent chance of getting into the XI

Attack wise I'd think it will be Anderson OR Broad plus Wood OR Stone. Pace and Reverse will be handy on the dust bowls. Bess & Leach should be shoeins over there. Which leaves a spinning all rounders role to fill. Moeen did bowl well out there last time but has been in terrible form with bat and ball so Lawrence has a shout. Im not sure how good his bowing is, any Essex fans might know more?

Wouldn't a leggy be a luxury- Oh Adil where are you?

Dont think there will be any need for a 3rd seamer although it is a different time of year to the last Tour so maybe Woakes or Curran will get a game at 7 if theres any help for them.

also, SL are dire so we can't read much into them .. just like SA/WI etc. Given the supposed quality the ECB has and the financial resources, these teams and tours should be a picnic

Mr Happys back.

Guess what - ECB has had more resources than these countries during the whole history of Test cricket - you know why we dont win every time we tour them? Because home advantage is massive and its bloody hard. Stop moaning - you sound like you could guest on loose women!
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2020, 03:39:33 PM »

I quite like the squad and think Lawrence will have a decent chance of getting into the XI

Attack wise I'd think it will be Anderson OR Broad plus Wood OR Stone. Pace and Reverse will be handy on the dust bowls. Bess & Leach should be shoeins over there. Which leaves a spinning all rounders role to fill. Moeen did bowl well out there last time but has been in terrible form with bat and ball so Lawrence has a shout. Im not sure how good his bowing is, any Essex fans might know more?

Wouldn't a leggy be a luxury- Oh Adil where are you?

Dont think there will be any need for a 3rd seamer although it is a different time of year to the last Tour so maybe Woakes or Curran will get a game at 7 if theres any help for them.

Mr Happys back.

Guess what - ECB has had more resources than these countries during the whole history of Test cricket - you know why we dont win every time we tour them? Because home advantage is massive and its bloody hard. Stop moaning - you sound like you could guest on loose women!

ah mr happy. Yeah, sorry I expect very very very well paid professional sportsman in the pinnacle of the game to actually.. you know.. be good. Sorry I don't bend over when the next ECB/Media person says we should over a player and actually wait to see if they are going to produce consistently etc.

Yes, lets start to say how great this team is, how world class we'll be and how great it'll be to beat a SL with anyone notable in it's ranks currently??
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2020, 03:41:04 PM »

I'm pretty sure the Buttler stat related to Test matches. But he's dropped since.

I'm happy with the selection of both Lawrence and Bairstow.

I'm sorry if I've mentioned it before, but I'm quite proud of myself for feeling so sure Lawrence would play for England within ten minutes of seeing him bat in the nets as a 15 year-old.
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six and out

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2020, 04:31:34 PM »

Why haven't they taken enough batsmen? Only two who normally bat in the top 3, and the only batting backup in the main squad is Foakes. And then six reserve bowlers and one batsman. Fair enough it's only a two test series, but the practice games should be comically low scoring.

Pretty easy to guess the side (if not the order) given Broad and Anderson won't have been taken for a holiday:
1 Sibley
2 Crawley
3 Bairstow
4 Root
5 Lawrence
6 Moeen
7 Buttler
8 Bess
9 Broad
10 Leach
11 Anderson

On Bairstow... not a totally unreasonable selection given Stokes/Pope both unavailable, but what a kick in the teeth for any county top 3 player who'd been dreaming of a callup.

Although I agree with the side you have put there, with Lawrence playing you have 5 spinners in the team, so you could play a bolter like Wood or Stone as an X factor luxury selection.
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alba caerulea

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2020, 04:52:32 PM »

ah mr happy. Yeah, sorry I expect very very very well paid professional sportsman in the pinnacle of the game to actually.. you know.. be good. Sorry I don't bend over when the next ECB/Media person says we should over a player and actually wait to see if they are going to produce consistently etc.

Yes, lets start to say how great this team is, how world class we'll be and how great it'll be to beat a SL with anyone notable in it's ranks currently??

Not sure who you think is bending over. And I think most of the forum are fairly realistic about the current sides prowess. I think they have a long way to go. But I support the England team at home and away regardless of results. Whoever wears the shirt.

You just come across as permanently miserable about cricket in general. If I moaned about a subject/sport as much as you I probably wouldnt play it and certainly wouldn't post regularly about it on a forum. Just take up something you enjoy

Why dont you nail your flag to the mast and give us the touring party and playing XI you would take to Sri Lanka?
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ppccopener

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2020, 04:55:30 PM »

I do love how saying someone might not be anything special means it's 'writing someone off'.. sigh.


Special to me is 50+ test average.. average test player is 40+ ... not good enough test player is sub 40 (as a batter).

Either way, we are all entitled to an opinion.. just like those who love Bairstow/Moeen/buttler etc

We are indeed all entitled to an opinion, the forum wouldnt be much fun without them.

With younger players I think its impossible to avoid picking on potential not just stats..Lawrence has potential but no one knows if he can fulfil it until he steps up, its a big jump from County to tests.
Pope has massive potential and a first class average to back it up...but there are not many like him around.
The 50 average you refer to is a very high bar to achieve,maybe easier for Asian players at home rather than ours.

I dont recall one our our tests players with a 50 average in recent memory..plenty of mid 40s.
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SD

Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2020, 05:03:40 PM »

The lot of a FC batsman in England has got harder in recent times.  4-day cricket is not pushed to the bookends of the season when conditions are more favourable to the bowlers and a big investment on drainage has meant cricket is now played in conditions when players would have previously sat with their feet up watching the ground drying.  I suspect that the direction is very much towards lower FC averages for batsmen in England
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