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roco

Re: Online Stockist
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2021, 05:30:33 AM »

Having been here from start pretty much as was on cricket supplies forum

Yes this was set up for more free debate but please dont go into why sponsors dont post as much as been over 100 times by people with much more experience on here

I have no issue people pushing OLS or anyone as never had any interaction with them, the forum is a vastly different place now to when it started and is like night and day

I see this as a bit of a nursery for brands who grow from here and a place for them to try ideas some good some not so good but the sheer amount of time wasters has put most off interacting and thats there choice also reasoned debate went out of window for a while which took the fun away and needed admin to clamp down lead by buzz the merciless

The forum is what it is now a good source of information odd debate and place to get cheap goods. Just enjoy for what it is.

Until Bruce starts drinking again then fun can begin
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FattusCattus

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Re: Online Stockist
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2021, 09:12:03 AM »

That can be arranged - but some subject matter has been ruthlessly supressed on here by ham-fisted censorship recently, so the desire for knob gags has waned.
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FattusCattus

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Re: Online Stockist
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2021, 09:14:08 AM »

Oh and @stamper - really good, interesting post. You managed to be both brilliantly articulate and massively patronising at the same time.

Well done :)
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More Glue Than Wood

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Re: Online Stockist
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2021, 09:23:45 AM »

I've been pretty mild mannered on this forum to date.  Tried to help where I can.  But a couple of posts on this thread have annoyed me.  Not annoyed me as much as our handling of COVID or the inequality of income distribution around the world. But annoyed me in comparison to the vast majority of stuff I've read on the forum.  So here is my Jerry Maguire piece.

@Neon Cricket, I would love to give you the benefit of the doubt on these.  As you wrote later, maybe something has got lost in translation.  But I can't I'm afraid. There just seems to be too much vitriol for it to be a question of wording.

Tom has already debunked that CBF is just for "British" companies.  He helped set it up to open up discussion on crickets brands, not restrict it.  I really value the breadth of brands on the forum.  The fact that it includes also posts about training, management of club affairs, thoughts on international matches as well.  It's interesting and useful.

Secondly, I think you have vastly misread your audience if you believe you'll get much empathy that forumites are to blame for sponsors, retail stockists and individual brands failing to interact because, for instance, there is an active discussion about an Indian supplier.  A somewhat tricky position to defend when you, by your own admission, resell Indian supplied goods.

I'll now quote the last post on the thread that annoyed me and then wrap things together hopefully with a little useful advice.

I was involved in a discussion about cricket bags a couple of weeks ago.  I pleaded for any suppliers on the forum to get involved in the discussion.  The silence was deafening.

For a small, medium or even large business a forum like this can provide not only sales leads, but really valuable insight about what we are thinking about with our kit and our cricketing lives in general.

Take soups. Fresh soups, canned soups, vegetable soups, broths etc. Is there a soup drinkers forum?  Not that I can find. So soup manufacturers get their information from sales analysis, analysis of their competitors' sales (if they can get it), market research, and product research.  That all costs money. Actually quite a lot of money and probably too much for most small and medium sized businesses.

So Neon Cricket and Soulman, this forum can give you first hand research at the cost of some of your time, and even better quality research if you get involved and ask the right questions.  So what, if we're discussing what an Indian supplier provides?  Look at what we're purchasing and understand why. Read, listen, and think.  Innovate and offer things that are not homogenous and come down to price. And that includes products, after sales service, pre sales service to name a couple.  It might even get to a level of understanding where you accept that you can't compete on a particular product and no longer stock it.  At least you won't be losing money on it.

Coming back to my plea on cricket bags, more members than I imagined said they were willing to spend a decent amount of money on a bag, but wanted it to last for longer than a season or two, and didn't care so much about platinum lined beer holders, or ocean fried shoe compartments.  My particular gripe was zips on cricket bags. Something that for an extra 4 or so to get YKK versions, means the bag won't be useless after a season and, I'm pretty certain would be a winner with us, and a winner for you if you're quick to market.

Yes, it is tough to run your own business. The effort you have to put in just to keep afloat can be exhausting.  Then a pandemic comes along and sales drop off.  And to top it all off some of us customers can be a royal pain in the bottom. We can be demanding, uncertain, flighty and tight.  But it is a buyers market unfortunately and you have to keep at it despite the setbacks.  There is no easy money to be made right now.  There will be, that's the way of the economic cycle.  But not right now.

If it helps, think about the alternative - sitting in an office all day, with a tosspot of a boss, demanding to know why some dull spreadsheet hasn't been updated five minutes after they've asked and so stand behind you whilst you do it and offer the wisdom of their experience from 20 years ago.

i've not been on here very long so do not have much experience of the excellent posts that have come before i joined - but this should be up there with the best ever - well reasoned, shows someone who really cares, does not allow 'certain groups to bully an arguement'

@stamper i applaud your honesty and stance - well done!!!!
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Online Stockist
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2021, 09:43:45 AM »

Personally , I am totally torn on all this. On The one hand I always want to support British Makers (so I personally now use RPC kit and spent silly amounts each year) but..... the prices are ridiculous in the UK. OLS provides essentially the same product but for 25 quid a pop.

Maybe, maybe not possible for a british company to do but it's probably a massive hole in the market here. However, most standard players will always buy GM, GN, Kook irrespective anyway so the market just isn't as large as people think.


I go through 10-12 pairs of OLS a year with netting and there is no way I could afford that (well, justify the spend), if I had to buy british (sure, you can buy lower end spec but I put the machine on quite quick so need to trust the protection).   


The forum is a nice place to come speak about ALL things cricket. Sure, I totally disagree with most people on here over White ball but still... nice place to come see different views and remind ourselves there are other view points out there
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Jimbo

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Re: Online Stockist
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2021, 09:52:21 AM »

Have to agree that there is room for both retailers like OLS and the smaller brands. If I want something to last I don't mind spending more to know I've got a quality product and will get top customer service (every bat I've got is from a UK maker for example and I've yet to be let down on the customer service aspect).

On the other hand, things that I know are going to get torn, ripped, dirty or worn out (gloves for nets mainly) then it's difficult to justify as large an outlay as 70 when I know that I don't really need the top level protection on offer against medium pace dibbly dobblers.
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t2ylo

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Re: Online Stockist
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2021, 10:15:52 AM »

Very interesting debate & gone in a direction I never expected but all remained civil & reasoned.

This is forum at its best, we do not have to all agree (nor should we) but can leave the vitriolic & partisan nastiness to the Twitterati

I own nothing but blank softs - mainly because I can use any bat without setting off my OCD

If I was to guess Id say 4 pairs of pads & 6/7 pairs of gloves

Mostly different styles & designs and many clearly then gone on to be personalised and sold by U.K. brands

I prefer them blank but understand if I want a brand name of my choice on it I have to pay a higher price... like all products.

I dont use OLS but not a conscious  decision I reckon you can still find a fair few bargains in the U.K. & I always dread small mens sizing turning up & no way to return them



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Douglas Jardine

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Re: Online Stockist
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2021, 01:02:44 PM »

Well isn't this fun!

When's the next CBF syndicate order from OLS to save a few quid on postage?
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LEACHY48

Re: Online Stockist
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2021, 04:05:43 PM »

I've been pretty mild mannered on this forum to date.  Tried to help where I can.  But a couple of posts on this thread have annoyed me.  Not annoyed me as much as our handling of COVID or the inequality of income distribution around the world. But annoyed me in comparison to the vast majority of stuff I've read on the forum.  So here is my Jerry Maguire piece.

@Neon Cricket, I would love to give you the benefit of the doubt on these.  As you wrote later, maybe something has got lost in translation.  But I can't I'm afraid. There just seems to be too much vitriol for it to be a question of wording.

Tom has already debunked that CBF is just for "British" companies.  He helped set it up to open up discussion on crickets brands, not restrict it.  I really value the breadth of brands on the forum.  The fact that it includes also posts about training, management of club affairs, thoughts on international matches as well.  It's interesting and useful.

Secondly, I think you have vastly misread your audience if you believe you'll get much empathy that forumites are to blame for sponsors, retail stockists and individual brands failing to interact because, for instance, there is an active discussion about an Indian supplier.  A somewhat tricky position to defend when you, by your own admission, resell Indian supplied goods.

I'll now quote the last post on the thread that annoyed me and then wrap things together hopefully with a little useful advice.

I was involved in a discussion about cricket bags a couple of weeks ago.  I pleaded for any suppliers on the forum to get involved in the discussion.  The silence was deafening.

For a small, medium or even large business a forum like this can provide not only sales leads, but really valuable insight about what we are thinking about with our kit and our cricketing lives in general.

Take soups. Fresh soups, canned soups, vegetable soups, broths etc. Is there a soup drinkers forum?  Not that I can find. So soup manufacturers get their information from sales analysis, analysis of their competitors' sales (if they can get it), market research, and product research.  That all costs money. Actually quite a lot of money and probably too much for most small and medium sized businesses.

So Neon Cricket and Soulman, this forum can give you first hand research at the cost of some of your time, and even better quality research if you get involved and ask the right questions.  So what, if we're discussing what an Indian supplier provides?  Look at what we're purchasing and understand why. Read, listen, and think.  Innovate and offer things that are not homogenous and come down to price. And that includes products, after sales service, pre sales service to name a couple.  It might even get to a level of understanding where you accept that you can't compete on a particular product and no longer stock it.  At least you won't be losing money on it.

Coming back to my plea on cricket bags, more members than I imagined said they were willing to spend a decent amount of money on a bag, but wanted it to last for longer than a season or two, and didn't care so much about platinum lined beer holders, or ocean fried shoe compartments.  My particular gripe was zips on cricket bags. Something that for an extra 4 or so to get YKK versions, means the bag won't be useless after a season and, I'm pretty certain would be a winner with us, and a winner for you if you're quick to market.

Yes, it is tough to run your own business. The effort you have to put in just to keep afloat can be exhausting.  Then a pandemic comes along and sales drop off.  And to top it all off some of us customers can be a royal pain in the bottom. We can be demanding, uncertain, flighty and tight.  But it is a buyers market unfortunately and you have to keep at it despite the setbacks.  There is no easy money to be made right now.  There will be, that's the way of the economic cycle.  But not right now.

If it helps, think about the alternative - sitting in an office all day, with a tosspot of a boss, demanding to know why some dull spreadsheet hasn't been updated five minutes after they've asked and so stand behind you whilst you do it and offer the wisdom of their experience from 20 years ago.

@stamper I have to say I agree with fattus in that this comes across as sanctimonious and condescending - whether that was the intention or not.

However, with that said, I will preface my response by saying I do agree with a decent amount of what you said and it was an articulate response.

Now, onto what I dont agree with:

For a small, medium or even large business a forum like this can provide not only sales leads, but really valuable insight about what we are thinking about with our kit and our cricketing lives in general.

Take soups. Fresh soups, canned soups, vegetable soups, broths etc. Is there a soup drinkers forum?  Not that I can find. So soup manufacturers get their information from sales analysis, analysis of their competitors' sales (if they can get it), market research, and product research.  That all costs money. Actually quite a lot of money and probably too much for most small and medium sized businesses.

This forum is very blatantly not a representative microcosm of the wider industry, your argument outlining how Neon/Soulman's responses are incorrect, and then likening the industry to soups is a stretch at best. I actually work for a B2B data company that provide the exact sort of data you were mentioning to retailers, and believe me, it is our job to ensure that the data is as representative of the market as possible. This forum, is as aforementioned, categorically not representative of a wider audience; while it can provide valuable insights and sales leads, it can also, as others have said, generate a number of 'tyre kickers' that never have any intention of buying anything.

The reason threads like this detract from the sponsors is because these companies have no interest in this forum for the highlighted reason above. However members on here will champion these companies to save a few quid on grey imports, whilst expecting forum sponsors to justify their prices to the nth degree, as well as send them pictures of pad weights/glove weights/bats/clefts/etc.

Secondly, I think you have vastly misread your audience if you believe you'll get much empathy that forumites are to blame for sponsors, retail stockists and individual brands failing to interact because, for instance, there is an active discussion about an Indian supplier.  A somewhat tricky position to defend when you, by your own admission, resell Indian supplied goods.

This is somewhat disingenuous to suggest that Neon were suggesting the reason this thread (and others of its kind) push sponsors away is because you are discussing an 'Indian' supplier. He was suggesting (in my opinion) that this thread - that appears to push business away from the forum to a non sponsor fails to incentivise sponsorship, especially when you have a double standard of expectations from sponsors vs. non sponsors as I highlighted above.

The fact that Neon/Soulman/whoever import certain products, rebrand, and then sell on is not really part of this debate. I know for an absolute fact that Adam @ Neon will have customised his pads and gloves to be different in all the subtle ways that no one thinks about, and that all costs money. His pads, for example, are most definitely not available anywhere else, you might get similar, very similar in fact, but certainly not identical. Couple this in, with the fact that any UK resellers could now very well have to pay 3 k minimum to have gloves and pads, in 1 model, 1 size and both dexterities available to sell due to kitemark testing, along with the shipping, the import rates, and also the aftercare service that they need to be prepared to give, and suddenly they are fighting not only an uphill battle against grey importers, but more of a mountainous struggle to be competitive on price.

Innovate and offer things that are not homogenous and come down to price. And that includes products, after sales service, pre sales service to name a couple.  It might even get to a level of understanding where you accept that you can't compete on a particular product and no longer stock it.  At least you won't be losing money on it.

This quote particularly highlights a lack of understanding on your part in this topic. As I stated above, Neon's softs are frankly not homogenous, and as I mentioned, do not exist other than from Adam. Your 'advice' is to simply 'stop stocking them' if you cannot compete, but I put it to you, that a lack of a softs range for example, would astronomically impact a brand. People do not want to just buy bats from people anymore, especially when there are some many 'boutique' brands that operate with shoddy standards. People are far less inclined to buy a bat from Joe Bloggs that he made in his back garden when the company that he represents does not have a market presence in all facets of the industry - yes the market is showing this. People want to buy full kit, or they want to just buy softs because 'bats are cheaper in India/Pakistan/eBay' and also because as aforementioned, having a market presence in softs/luggage/clothing etc gives the consumer trust in the brand. So yes, simplistically - stop stocking the product if you cant compete with X, but that fails to understand the nuances of consumerism and also fails to understand that there is a clear connection between losing sales in one area, and losing sales in others.

I will close by saying, that I wholeheartedly agree that a discussion around brands, both on and off of the forum is healthy, and the more breadth of brands that we get on here, the better for the consumer. However, I would say, as Harper Lee once said; 'Don't judge a man, until you've walked a mile in his shoes'. You must understand that making this forum consumer-centric will clearly drive suppliers away, while making it 'brand-centric' will drive consumers away.

No one wants to be in an echo chamber on here, however, there is a balance to be struck between alienating potentially great suppliers, and also going too far the other way.
 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 04:18:35 PM by LEACHY48 »
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More Glue Than Wood

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Re: Online Stockist
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2021, 04:28:03 PM »

a post like that does not promote diverse opinion - it sparkes of don't have a go at my mate......
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LEACHY48

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Re: Online Stockist
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2021, 04:29:08 PM »

a post like that does not promote diverse opinion - it sparkes of don't have a go at my mate......

A post that is well reasoned and provides valid counter arguments to points made earlier? If you don't agree with what I said - I am not going to take it personally, but I am at a loss when it comes to your assertion that my post did not encourage diverse opinion.

You are essentially suggesting that I am not allowed to defend a brand with well reasoned counter arguments because I have a personal friendship with the owner; and if I do defend them, then I am preventing free speech - the irony certainly isnt lost on me either.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and equally part of 'healthy discussion' is being able to listen to the opinions of others, the above post is my opinion and is grounded in fact, - if that stymies healthy discussion then we have all been doing it wrong for the last however many years.

Could you please tell me specifically which part doesn't promote healthy diverse discussion?

@More Glue Than Wood
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 04:58:10 PM by LEACHY48 »
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SOULMAN1012

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Re: Online Stockist
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2021, 05:11:01 PM »

a post like that does not promote diverse opinion - it sparkes of don't have a go at my mate......

Just the ref record I dont actually know either of the guys that run Neon or Reaper cricket but I totally agree with the points they are trying to make. The comment form @stamper by and large is a very good, thoughtful response but it doesnt support the fact that those of us that are trying to bring new brands to the market and those that have spent a lot of time on the forum are right in the bat they say about sponsor interaction.

The forum is in my opinion of now making bats for a year not in the slightest way a good gauge of the open market. As of yet I have not had someone specify a weight to the fondue at detail, demand a handle with an exact specific dimension, try and barter on the price, demand pictures of multiple clefts and then go totally quite. The fact seems to be that outside the forum people either like your prices or your design and thats about it really.
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More Glue Than Wood

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Re: Online Stockist
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2021, 05:20:06 PM »

you can do and say what you want as can i - my opinion is that you sound like you are defending a mate - didn't know you were mates with Neon - i've not been here that long so how would i know???

the point is that you came over as not being objective - you are being subjective - would your opinion be different if Neon had not made the comments and it had been someone else??? only you know that answer

i am making a subjective opinion, you come accross as trying to make something subjective sound objective by saying Neon does this and that - it is classic whataboutery - which some will agree with and some will not (most will not give a monkeys....)
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More Glue Than Wood

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Re: Online Stockist
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2021, 05:25:31 PM »

Just the ref record I dont actually know either of the guys that run Neon or Reaper cricket but I totally agree with the points they are trying to make. The comment form @stamper by and large is a very good, thoughtful response but it doesnt support the fact that those of us that are trying to bring new brands to the market and those that have spent a lot of time on the forum are right in the bat they say about sponsor interaction.

The forum is in my opinion of now making bats for a year not in the slightest way a good gauge of the open market. As of yet I have not had someone specify a weight to the fondue at detail, demand a handle with an exact specific dimension, try and barter on the price, demand pictures of multiple clefts and then go totally quite. The fact seems to be that outside the forum people either like your prices or your design and thats about it really.

i can totally understand this point of view and agree with pretty much everything said - nothing was meant against anyones right to have an opinion - it was just an issue where i felt some people were being more subjective than objective

i apologise to all if i have offended anyone with my comment about that previous extended comment, it just sounded more subjective than objective to me
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procricket

Re: Online Stockist
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2021, 05:35:10 PM »

I have to say this on the subject..

As a sponsor when I was with B3 I used to hate small brands under cutting us on us especially as we had overheads more than they did but understood basic business.

Now the smaller brands are charging as much if not more than big brands without overheads.

Funnily enough I buy kit from all any anybody but as somebody said if there a pair of gloves for 30 pound when another sells them for 80 I know where i'm going.

I remember not too long ago you could see Ryan in Sharlston and get a top whack Grade 1 for 150 quid oh the days ......

everybody making money of course they have to, but overheads are factored in my buying when I buy sorry I've been involved in the industry and I know people are not always aware of returns and what not and overheads.

End of the day I buy from Online Stockiest and I buy for UK companies like Chase and Others and have friends in the Industry who always tell me to support British.

This forum is about all equipment and if some guy wants a pair of SG gloves which last time I looked you couldn't get into UK then is that against the forum because he said they were good and he had good service.

My issue is Big brand moaned about bedroom brands then bedroom brands upped there price so people looked for cheeper and then that option of Online Stockiest is vaible
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 05:40:43 PM by procricket »
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